IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

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krafty81
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IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by krafty81 »

I filed my federal taxes on time, as I always do. Got a small refund. A month later, without explanation, the IRS pulled 64 dollars from my checking account. Has anyone had this happen? I have not received a letter from them. My taxes are prepared by a trusted CPA. He is also stumped. It seems like "nice try figuring out your taxes, you are off by 64 dollars." How are they even allowed to do that without my consent?
stan1
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by stan1 »

I'd wait a few days if you just noticed this today or yesterday. A letter may have crossed in the US mail.
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dual
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by dual »

If you have not already done so, sign up for an account at irs.gov. You will have to go through the ID.me rigmarole but it’s worth it.
Sign in and then check the transcripts for the current and last few years. You will probably find the explanation there.
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whodidntante
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by whodidntante »

I do my taxes to the best of my ability, but I've come to realize that my taxes are sufficiently complex that reasonable people can disagree. So, every year when I file, I expect to hear something later. It takes about two weeks between the money transaction and an appeasement letter. If there are a lot of digits and it's not in my favor, I send a letter right back. In your case, I would read the letter, then I would find a more productive hobby than writing the IRS.
upwind
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by upwind »

No. But it’s a crappy move since you could have bounced stuff. But if it was less than what they initially deposited I suspect this is not unusual. There often is some sort of statement about transfers made in error and being able to reverse it. One of the reasons I don’t give this sort of access to other parties. Now if they took more than they initially deposited out that would be inexcusable. Either way though wouldn’t like it. But in this case I imagine the argument is that it wasn’t really your money.
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Svensk Anga
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by Svensk Anga »

That was nice of you to pay someone else's tax bill. :D Who have you given a paper check to? Routing and account numbers are right there for anyone to use.
Be glad it wasn't mine, which was five figures. :oops:

Could this be a new way to commit fraud? Seems doubtful since it would be so easy to track down.
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Artsdoctor
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by Artsdoctor »

The IRS can definitely take back a portion of a refund which it deposited to your bank, although it's obligated to tell you about it. I would guess that you should receive a formal notification within a couple of days, although it's unnerving to have any entity take money back from your checking account.
delamer
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by delamer »

Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Rebels38
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by Rebels38 »

This is extremely concerning. I can’t believe some on here seem so casual over it.

I’ve had a couple small issues with the IRS where I thought were overly aggressive but have never heard of this.
alexbogle
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by alexbogle »

delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
If they improperly pull funds, that is fixable.

I'd personally be more worried about having to deal with insecurity of physical mail.
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JBTX
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by JBTX »

delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
I’d pay $64 a year never to see or use checks again.
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HueyLD
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by HueyLD »

krafty81 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 4:04 pm I filed my federal taxes on time, as I always do. Got a small refund. A month later, without explanation, the IRS pulled 64 dollars from my checking account. Has anyone had this happen? I have not received a letter from them. My taxes are prepared by a trusted CPA. He is also stumped. It seems like "nice try figuring out your taxes, you are off by 64 dollars." How are they even allowed to do that without my consent?
Did you pay estimated taxes in 2023, or did you have taxes withheld, or both?

Sometimes, you could be assessed underpayment penalty even with a refund if taxes were not paid in a timely manner. If you did pay estimated taxes, try to replace estimated tax payments with tax withholding to minimize such a problem.
toddthebod
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by toddthebod »

Rebels38 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 7:16 pm This is extremely concerning. I can’t believe some on here seem so casual over it.
What other option do we have?
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TheRoundHeadedKid
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by TheRoundHeadedKid »

Was the $64 bigger than the refund?
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valleyrock
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by valleyrock »

Personally, I'd let it ride. Eventually you probably will learn why this happened. Think of it as something of minor importance that was misplaced. Eventually it will probably turn up.
Big Dog
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by Big Dog »

delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
And you think the IRS does not have your bank accounts numbers?
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krafty81
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by krafty81 »

Yes the refund was much bigger than what they pulled. I am done giving any govt entity access to my bank account. I will wait longer for a check.
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krafty81
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by krafty81 »

Svensk Anga wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 5:14 pm That was nice of you to pay someone else's tax bill. :D Who have you given a paper check to? Routing and account numbers are right there for anyone to use.
Be glad it wasn't mine, which was five figures. :oops:

Could this be a new way to commit fraud? Seems doubtful since it would be so easy to track down.
Sorry I don't understand your post.
LotsaGray
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by LotsaGray »

delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
Pssst they probably already have your account information. Even if they don’t they can back trace the deposited check and get the information. Then they simply seize what the want even in excess of the check. Now would they do this for $64 probably not. Would they do it wo prior notice, not normally but it depends on the specifics. Must they info you, yes but not always before they do it.
delamer
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by delamer »

LotsaGray wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 11:55 pm
delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
Pssst they probably already have your account information. Even if they don’t they can back trace the deposited check and get the information. Then they simply seize what the want even in excess of the check. Now would they do this for $64 probably not. Would they do it wo prior notice, not normally but it depends on the specifics. Must they info you, yes but not always before they do it.
You could be right, but I’m not going to make it easy for the IRS to seize my money.
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vtftw100
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by vtftw100 »

delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
A few years ago I moved within my state (MA) and in the midst of COVID madness, I think some of our mail got lost. Then we moved again the year after (so 2 years in a row) due to _change in my employment_ (this is very relevant as you'll see below). This year, sometime in April I received a rather scam-looking email from our company's HR department that they've been notified by the MA dept of revenue that I owe some $600 + associated penalty and that they'll be required to withhold that from my paychecks until the amount of fully paid. They added a note that in case my paycheck were below this amount, they'll instead *pull the money from my bank* per the direct deposit agreement I have.

Mind you, this is MA Dept of Revenue which was able to contact my _current_ employer by virtue of that employer filing their taxes and notifying them that I work for them (via state tax withholding I assume).

I promise you if the United States Internal Revenue Service ever wanted to find you or your bank account, they can do it in a gazzilion ways from the moon.
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TheRoundHeadedKid
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by TheRoundHeadedKid »

delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
Paper check has a risk of getting lost in the mail or stolen and then forged. Maybe just have multiple checking accounts. Have one with minimal funds. So if anybody unexpected tries to pull funds out, it will "bounce".

krafty81 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 10:46 pm Yes the refund was much bigger than what they pulled. I am done giving any govt entity access to my bank account. I will wait longer for a check.
I would not be too concerned if the $64 was smaller than the refund. IRS could be correcting a math error or adding penalties or interest for back taxes owed on previous years.

For state taxes, I'd created an account to see all my correspondence mailed to me. I noticed I didn't get a mail on one of them. Maybe IRS has something similar.
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delamer
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by delamer »

TheRoundHeadedKid wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 10:35 am
delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
Paper check has a risk of getting lost in the mail or stolen and then forged. Maybe just have multiple checking accounts. Have one with minimal funds. So if anybody unexpected tries to pull funds out, it will "bounce".
And there’s a risk that if you give the IRS your bank account information for direct deposit of refunds, they’ll pull money out of your account without any prior notification. I’ll take my chances with snail mail; it hasn’t failed me yet regarding any IRS checks.

Multiple checking accounts solely for this purpose is overkill.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
mix
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by mix »

I honestly think the only correct answer to your question is to contact your bank. Someone took money you did not authorize out of your account. This could have resulted in you being overdrawn or bouncing a check. I do not believe the IRS will ever do this without a hell of a lot of prior notice.
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by LotsaGray »

TheRoundHeadedKid wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 10:35 am
delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
Paper check has a risk of getting lost in the mail or stolen and then forged. Maybe just have multiple checking accounts. Have one with minimal funds. So if anybody unexpected tries to pull funds out, it will "bounce".

krafty81 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 10:46 pm Yes the refund was much bigger than what they pulled. I am done giving any govt entity access to my bank account. I will wait longer for a check.
I would not be too concerned if the $64 was smaller than the refund. IRS could be correcting a math error or adding penalties or interest for back taxes owed on previous years.

For state taxes, I'd created an account to see all my correspondence mailed to me. I noticed I didn't get a mail on one of them. Maybe IRS has something similar.
If the check is lost or stolen, even if subsequently cashed or forged, the govt will keep you whole. Maybea real PITB but you will get your money (and the govt will probably pull it back from whoever cashed the original check. That is who will get hurt, not you.)

And if you think multiple accounts will protect you, please realize that the gov't doesn't need you to grant them access to remove funds. If they can get them from your checking account, they will gladly go after your savings account, brokerage, pay check, or a lien on house or anyother propertiy you have. Remember you already gave them directly or indirectly this information. So unless you live completely off the grid as a squatter, the govt can track you and your money down.

Personally the convenience of direct deposit is why I prefer that. I am not worried about the gov't pulling back monies because that will happen with a DD or a check if the govt wants it to happen. OTOH, I would not have a issue with a physical check either. We still have a local B&M bank and wife still goes there multiple times per week usually (it is also her business' bank) anyway. So I would not even need to go to deposit it.
Asyouwish
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by Asyouwish »

krafty81 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 4:04 pm I filed my federal taxes on time, as I always do. Got a small refund. A month later, without explanation, the IRS pulled 64 dollars from my checking account. Has anyone had this happen? I have not received a letter from them. My taxes are prepared by a trusted CPA. He is also stumped. It seems like "nice try figuring out your taxes, you are off by 64 dollars." How are they even allowed to do that without my consent?
I find this hard to believe. Are you sure it was the IRS? What is the description? $64 is a very odd random number.

Have you called the IRS to ask? Can you create an account and view your transcripts? I suggest you do that. You can view three years back of Account Transcripts. That $64 will be somewhere. Unless it’s not federal pulling the money.
LotsaGray
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by LotsaGray »

mix wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 11:50 am I honestly think the only correct answer to your question is to contact your bank. Someone took money you did not authorize out of your account. This could have resulted in you being overdrawn or bouncing a check. I do not believe the IRS will ever do this without a hell of a lot of prior notice.
They (as well as your employer and other entities) can and will do this in a heartbeat if it is related to a direct error.

If a data entry error resulted in person A getting person B's $200K refund. When B inquires and they track it down, IRS is not going to notify A asking for the money back. They are going to go get it NOW and then tell A maybe. In they mind (and legally) it was never A's money and if A had already spent some or all of it, too bad 'you should not be spending money that you should know is not yours'.

They will take it even if it is not longer in the account and let the bank worry about how to get it back from you.

It may suck but that is how it works.
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illumination
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by illumination »

When I hear things like this, I want to set up a separate checking account just for IRS transfers. And just keep enough in it for what I owe.

I went through a back and forth for YEARS with the IRS over an amount close to $40k that they were dead certain I owed them. It was completely their error (they didn't record an overpayment from the previous year) and it wasn't even difficult to figure out (since the amount was exactly what my overpayment was) despite me explaining it through letters and phone calls.

Thank goodness the IRS didn't just take $40k out of my account and make me fight to get it back. Fortunately I only used paper checks in that era.
One would hope there's at least some level of due process before the IRS just takes money out of your account.
MarkNYC
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by MarkNYC »

One possibility not yet mentioned is that another taxpayer filed his/her tax return requesting direct debit of their $64 balance due, and that taxpayer has an account at the same bank with a similar account number and your account number was accidentally entered in their tax program input. When doing direct debit or direct deposit for tax returns, I don't think the IRS matches names on the bank account with names on the tax return. Just a hunch.
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by LotsaGray »

illumination wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 1:07 pm When I hear things like this, I want to set up a separate checking account just for IRS transfers. And just keep enough in it for what I owe.

I went through a back and forth for YEARS with the IRS over an amount close to $40k that they were dead certain I owed them. It was completely their error (they didn't record an overpayment from the previous year) and it wasn't even difficult to figure out (since the amount was exactly what my overpayment was) despite me explaining it through letters and phone calls.

Thank goodness the IRS didn't just take $40k out of my account and make me fight to get it back. Fortunately I only used paper checks in that era.
One would hope there's at least some level of due process before the IRS just takes money out of your account.
The due process depends on particulars. If for example the $ were intended to someone else and thus was never ‘yours’ it just gets removed. If it is a disputed amount as n the case described it will not be taken until final ruling it is due. Ofc there can be errors in this he process so sometimes things get done incorrectly.
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by mix »

LotsaGray wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:02 pm
mix wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 11:50 am I honestly think the only correct answer to your question is to contact your bank. Someone took money you did not authorize out of your account. This could have resulted in you being overdrawn or bouncing a check. I do not believe the IRS will ever do this without a hell of a lot of prior notice.
They (as well as your employer and other entities) can and will do this in a heartbeat if it is related to a direct error.

If a data entry error resulted in person A getting person B's $200K refund. When B inquires and they track it down, IRS is not going to notify A asking for the money back. They are going to go get it NOW and then tell A maybe. In they mind (and legally) it was never A's money and if A had already spent some or all of it, too bad 'you should not be spending money that you should know is not yours'.

They will take it even if it is not longer in the account and let the bank worry about how to get it back from you.

It may suck but that is how it works.

This is all speculation. Contact your bank.
toddthebod
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by toddthebod »

mix wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 8:12 pm
LotsaGray wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:02 pm
mix wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 11:50 am I honestly think the only correct answer to your question is to contact your bank. Someone took money you did not authorize out of your account. This could have resulted in you being overdrawn or bouncing a check. I do not believe the IRS will ever do this without a hell of a lot of prior notice.
They (as well as your employer and other entities) can and will do this in a heartbeat if it is related to a direct error.

If a data entry error resulted in person A getting person B's $200K refund. When B inquires and they track it down, IRS is not going to notify A asking for the money back. They are going to go get it NOW and then tell A maybe. In they mind (and legally) it was never A's money and if A had already spent some or all of it, too bad 'you should not be spending money that you should know is not yours'.

They will take it even if it is not longer in the account and let the bank worry about how to get it back from you.

It may suck but that is how it works.

This is all speculation. Contact your bank.
The bank will have nothing to say.
LotsaGray
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by LotsaGray »

mix wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 8:12 pm
LotsaGray wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 12:02 pm
mix wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 11:50 am I honestly think the only correct answer to your question is to contact your bank. Someone took money you did not authorize out of your account. This could have resulted in you being overdrawn or bouncing a check. I do not believe the IRS will ever do this without a hell of a lot of prior notice.
They (as well as your employer and other entities) can and will do this in a heartbeat if it is related to a direct error.

If a data entry error resulted in person A getting person B's $200K refund. When B inquires and they track it down, IRS is not going to notify A asking for the money back. They are going to go get it NOW and then tell A maybe. In they mind (and legally) it was never A's money and if A had already spent some or all of it, too bad 'you should not be spending money that you should know is not yours'.

They will take it even if it is not longer in the account and let the bank worry about how to get it back from you.

It may suck but that is how it works.

This is all speculation. Contact your bank.
If you are lucky the bank will tell you who took the money but they won’t be able to tell you why.

Btw this isn’t speculation. It is simply the way it works.
mariezzz
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by mariezzz »

krafty81 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 10:46 pm Yes the refund was much bigger than what they pulled. I am done giving any govt entity access to my bank account. I will wait longer for a check.
The thing is, paper checks can disappear too, especially with all the problems with the US mail system (still quite good, but not as reliable as it used to be). Then you're left trying to figure out what you need to do to get the IRS to re-issue a lost check, and jumping through all those hoops.
For refunds, I use a checking account where I generally keep minimal money. I guess the IRS can still try to pull funds from it, and possibly cause me headaches, but what they could pull out would be limited.

For me, the risk of problems associated with a paper check refund is greater than the risk of the IRS pulling out funds without telling me.

I'd also want to be certain it really was the IRS that pulled out the $64. (And with the greater chance of mail problems these days, it's possible the letter you were mailed got lost.)
LotsaGray
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by LotsaGray »

mariezzz wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 2:34 pm
krafty81 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 10:46 pm Yes the refund was much bigger than what they pulled. I am done giving any govt entity access to my bank account. I will wait longer for a check.
The thing is, paper checks can disappear too, especially with all the problems with the US mail system (still quite good, but not as reliable as it used to be). Then you're left trying to figure out what you need to do to get the IRS to re-issue a lost check, and jumping through all those hoops.
For refunds, I use a checking account where I generally keep minimal money. I guess the IRS can still try to pull funds from it, and possibly cause me headaches, but what they could pull out would be limited.

For me, the risk of problems associated with a paper check refund is greater than the risk of the IRS pulling out funds without telling me.

I'd also want to be certain it really was the IRS that pulled out the $64. (And with the greater chance of mail problems these days, it's possible the letter you were mailed got lost.)
You are suffering from false security. The lack of funds still in that checking account would not stop the IRS from pulling back the entire refunded amount if it was an error. If they send A's 100K refund erroneously into B's account (and B moves it or spends it) they will still pull $100K out of B's account (and deposit it into A. B's balance will go negative and the bank will demand B make it whole. The bank will go after any other accounts, including cashing CD's regardless of penalties if B does not comply with their payment demand in the time allowed.

Point is keeping a minimal balance really doesn't protect you from IRS (or your employer if you do the same thing for direct deposit of paychecks). If it was an error, it was never your money to spend regardless of if it was in your account or not. Your balance will just go negative and the bank will take actions to meet that liability.
RetiredAL
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by RetiredAL »

LotsaGray wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 6:30 pm
mariezzz wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 2:34 pm
krafty81 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 10:46 pm Yes the refund was much bigger than what they pulled. I am done giving any govt entity access to my bank account. I will wait longer for a check.
The thing is, paper checks can disappear too, especially with all the problems with the US mail system (still quite good, but not as reliable as it used to be). Then you're left trying to figure out what you need to do to get the IRS to re-issue a lost check, and jumping through all those hoops.
For refunds, I use a checking account where I generally keep minimal money. I guess the IRS can still try to pull funds from it, and possibly cause me headaches, but what they could pull out would be limited.

For me, the risk of problems associated with a paper check refund is greater than the risk of the IRS pulling out funds without telling me.

I'd also want to be certain it really was the IRS that pulled out the $64. (And with the greater chance of mail problems these days, it's possible the letter you were mailed got lost.)
You are suffering from false security. The lack of funds still in that checking account would not stop the IRS from pulling back the entire refunded amount if it was an error. If they send A's 100K refund erroneously into B's account (and B moves it or spends it) they will still pull $100K out of B's account (and deposit it into A. B's balance will go negative and the bank will demand B make it whole. The bank will go after any other accounts, including cashing CD's regardless of penalties if B does not comply with their payment demand in the time allowed.

Point is keeping a minimal balance really doesn't protect you from IRS (or your employer if you do the same thing for direct deposit of paychecks). If it was an error, it was never your money to spend regardless of if it was in your account or not. Your balance will just go negative and the bank will take actions to meet that liability.
+1

DFAS reclaimed monies from Dad's CU 6 month's after he died, 5 months after the CU account been closed, so balance went minus. This was a partial of his last military retirement pay. The bulk of that pay went to his bank checking account, which they did not reclaim.
MarkNYC
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by MarkNYC »

LotsaGray wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 6:30 pm The lack of funds still in that checking account would not stop the IRS from pulling back the entire refunded amount if it was an error. If they send A's 100K refund erroneously into B's account (and B moves it or spends it) they will still pull $100K out of B's account (and deposit it into A. B's balance will go negative and the bank will demand B make it whole.
That does not sound correct to me. The IRS has specific policies and procedures for recovering erroneous refunds. The Internal Revenue Manual lists 5 categories of erroneous refunds. Category D includes:

"A direct deposit applied to the wrong taxpayer account (unintended recipient) due to IRS error... can only be recovered by an erroneous refund lawsuit, a refund offset, or voluntary repayment. Administrative collection actions such as the filing of a Notice of Federal Tax Lien or issuance of a levy cannot be taken to recover Category D erroneous refunds. (IRM 25.4.5.5.5(3) and (5)(d).

A withdrawal of funds by the IRS from taxpayer's bank account as you described above would be a violation of their own policies and procedures as specified in the IRM.
LotsaGray
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by LotsaGray »

MarkNYC wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 8:51 am
LotsaGray wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 6:30 pm The lack of funds still in that checking account would not stop the IRS from pulling back the entire refunded amount if it was an error. If they send A's 100K refund erroneously into B's account (and B moves it or spends it) they will still pull $100K out of B's account (and deposit it into A. B's balance will go negative and the bank will demand B make it whole.
That does not sound correct to me. The IRS has specific policies and procedures for recovering erroneous refunds. The Internal Revenue Manual lists 5 categories of erroneous refunds. Category D includes:

"A direct deposit applied to the wrong taxpayer account (unintended recipient) due to IRS error... can only be recovered by an erroneous refund lawsuit, a refund offset, or voluntary repayment. Administrative collection actions such as the filing of a Notice of Federal Tax Lien or issuance of a levy cannot be taken to recover Category D erroneous refunds. (IRM 25.4.5.5.5(3) and (5)(d).

A withdrawal of funds by the IRS from taxpayer's bank account as you described above would be a violation of their own policies and procedures as specified in the IRM.
What if the error was not by the IRS? What if the action was not initiated by the IRS proper?

As I have said at least once ITT the specific facts will determine specific procedures to follow. From requesting voluntary return to immediate seizure to freezing account to civil trial or even criminal trial. And these don’t even cover an accidental or intentional violation of procedures. It can and has happened.

But the point I was making remains valid. Lack of funds in an account will not prevent govt from getting all its money back. Read your direct deposit agreement with the bank. You don’t have to receive warning. You don’t have to have adequate funds. You don’t even have to have that account open any longer.
MarkNYC
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by MarkNYC »

LotsaGray wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 10:04 am
MarkNYC wrote: Sat May 11, 2024 8:51 am
LotsaGray wrote: Fri May 10, 2024 6:30 pm The lack of funds still in that checking account would not stop the IRS from pulling back the entire refunded amount if it was an error. If they send A's 100K refund erroneously into B's account (and B moves it or spends it) they will still pull $100K out of B's account (and deposit it into A. B's balance will go negative and the bank will demand B make it whole.
That does not sound correct to me. The IRS has specific policies and procedures for recovering erroneous refunds. The Internal Revenue Manual lists 5 categories of erroneous refunds. Category D includes:

"A direct deposit applied to the wrong taxpayer account (unintended recipient) due to IRS error... can only be recovered by an erroneous refund lawsuit, a refund offset, or voluntary repayment. Administrative collection actions such as the filing of a Notice of Federal Tax Lien or issuance of a levy cannot be taken to recover Category D erroneous refunds. (IRM 25.4.5.5.5(3) and (5)(d).

A withdrawal of funds by the IRS from taxpayer's bank account as you described above would be a violation of their own policies and procedures as specified in the IRM.
What if the error was not by the IRS? What if the action was not initiated by the IRS proper?
If the direct deposit refund mistake was caused by a tax preparation error and not due to IRS error, then the IRS will do nothing and will not be helpful in getting the erroneous refund corrected.

If identity theft was involved, then the IRS will get involved.
feh
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by feh »

delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
Your check has your account number on it.
Hebell
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by Hebell »

feh wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 6:37 am
delamer wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:05 pm Yeah, this is why I don’t give the IRS our account information.

Paper check refunds only.
Your check has your account number on it.
The check is from the IRS. Has the IRS account number on it.
inverter
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by inverter »

I wonder if someone fat fingered your account number. This doesn’t sound like the IRS itself would have initiated it.
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krafty81
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by krafty81 »

Thanks for all the great info. I did take it up w my bank and they are looking into it. Does not smell right. I am positive I would have seen a letter. Will set up an IRS account and check. Worried this is a fraud pull and more could be coming out.
Rebels38
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by Rebels38 »

toddthebod wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 9:29 pm
Rebels38 wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 7:16 pm This is extremely concerning. I can’t believe some on here seem so casual over it.
What other option do we have?
Point taken but there is a huge due process issue here.
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krafty81
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Re: IRS Pulled money from my checking with no explanation

Post by krafty81 »

I did go to IRS.gov and set up an account. Pretty easy using id.me. They have NO record of pulling 64.00 from my checking account and there are no notices or letters they have sent me for well over a year. Passing info to my bank.
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