How to react - laid off / outsourced

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SavinMaven
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How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by SavinMaven »

These may be really stupid questions. I'm in my forties but only in my second job of my adult life, and the first job change was clean and simple: heard of something better, applied and accepted, off I went. Things have been great at job 2 for over a decade - until yesterday.

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be. The corporate-speak is thick. Are we really being 'transferred' if we have to reapply? I feel if it were a layoff, period, I'd know what to do: make even painful spending cuts. Apply for new jobs immediately. But I actually deeply enjoy my current job, and if I could more or less continue it under a new employer, I'd try to stay. Am I being naive to think staying is feasible, or that my 'new' job could reasonably resemble my old one? I have repeatedly been told I am a 'top performer' at my current job, but, have no idea if that will be known by, or matter to, the new place (since I don't know THEIR strategic goals, or the value they'd apply to my skillset).

We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
meadowrue
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by meadowrue »

I don’t have any good answers, unfortunately, but wanted to bump this so other wiser Bogleheads might respond. Sorry to hear about the “transfer” and the stress and uncertainty it is causing you and your family.
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CoAndy
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by CoAndy »

I would follow all the steps needed to reapply and attempt to stay on but also take steps to seek employment elsewhere. Be ready for any possible outcome. Good luck to you.
investingdad
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by investingdad »

These things are done for profit and cost cutting. I think we know how this turns out.
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Sandtrap
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Sandtrap »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am These may be really stupid questions. I'm in my forties but only in my second job of my adult life, and the first job change was clean and simple: heard of something better, applied and accepted, off I went. Things have been great at job 2 for over a decade - until yesterday.

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be. The corporate-speak is thick. Are we really being 'transferred' if we have to reapply? I feel if it were a layoff, period, I'd know what to do: make even painful spending cuts. Apply for new jobs immediately. But I actually deeply enjoy my current job, and if I could more or less continue it under a new employer, I'd try to stay. Am I being naive to think staying is feasible, or that my 'new' job could reasonably resemble my old one? I have repeatedly been told I am a 'top performer' at my current job, but, have no idea if that will be known by, or matter to, the new place (since I don't know THEIR strategic goals, or the value they'd apply to my skillset).

We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
1
For yourself and your "self", "respond logically and methodically after full research", rather than "react" which is clouded emotion filled with uncertainty.
2
Talk to HR, and whatever dept and whoever you need to at your current employer to find out "exactly", in detail, with "verifiable information" what is taking place, etc.
If you don't know enough, then there is "uncertainty".
3
If there is indeed a permanent "layoff/fired/etc" no matter the terminology, with a good possibility of having no employer at some point, then begin looking "now" for other career / job opportunities.
It does not hurt the present circumstances to "find out";
if you can find; fed/state/city comparable jobs
if you can find comparable jobs where you live
etc.
4
10 years from now, you might look at this point in your working career as something that happened and you went on to better jobs and higher pay and more rewarding endeavors.
So, "change" does not beget "catastrophe". It is just...."change".
It is our resistance to "change" that makes things feel catastrophic.

Best of luck.
Move forward.
j :D
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Topic Author
SavinMaven
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by SavinMaven »

These things are done for profit and cost cutting. I think we know how this turns out.
I haven't seen this movie before - please, spell it out for me. Use small words. Pretend I'm about 8 years old.
tashnewbie
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by tashnewbie »

Definitely understand this can be a stressful situation.

I know some employers will negotiate a guaranteed offer, without any need to officially apply, for the employees in this type of situation, as long as the employee passes certain pre-screening requirements (think stuff like criminal background check and drug test).

Ideally the communication from the employer would be clear as to whether you have a guaranteed offer and what the alternative would be. Some employers might say you have a guaranteed offer and if you don’t take it, you’ll be terminated from our employ. Some might offer severance to those who don’t take the offer or aren’t provided one. Some may find alternative positions inside its organization in those cases.

I would ask for clarification about the options and what the application process will be (is it just a formality or is it their standard process?).

If response is unsatisfactory, insufficient, or nonexistent, then I definitely would start a general job search. Might not be bad to go ahead and start that process now while you try to get more information. I don’t think it’d hurt anything.
Last edited by tashnewbie on Sat May 04, 2024 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tycoon
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Tycoon »

Having employees reapply will allow culling of the herd. It's a means to avoid certain inconvenient labor laws.
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CloseEnough
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by CloseEnough »

I have been in somewhat similar situation, not exactly, but with the uncertainty, instability in a job. From what you have described, if it was me I agree, I would take all steps to reapply and at the same time try to keep all options open. That means, quietly, very quietly, making sure your professional network is available and beginning to see how the job market for you looks. Potentially applying if you find a great opening somewhere that matches what you want to do. At the same time, there could be negative morale issues at your current workplace and I would steer clear of that, just continue to be the great performer, no matter how tempting to go negative. Finally, if it was me, I would be taking a hard look at finances to tighten up some, if possible, to be prepared in case you find yourself out of work for some period, which hopefully won't happen.

I would not panic, you have some time and it may work out (I might panic, but that is just me, my advice would be not to because you really do have some time :happy ). Good luck.
BlackStrat
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by BlackStrat »

Was in a similar situation 10 years ago; entire department outsourced to a new company. Our group was lucky enough to be retained and we managed to stay on for an additional seven years with even better benefits.
It forced me to start reviewing my fiscal situation and start planning for either a voluntary or involuntary retirement.
It worked out to be one of the best things that could’ve happened to me.
Good luck!
Topic Author
SavinMaven
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by SavinMaven »

Thanks to all who've shared so far. I appreciate it and am learning and reflecting.
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rob
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by rob »

Take a breath..... It's them not you ok - you have to internalize that and it takes a bit of time....

If you were laid-off, is there any package? Do they take that back if they re-employ you (you might be better off not applying for a "transfer" role)?

When I have seen this in the past - and it's a old favorite - it was apply for new and then the layoff the ones who don't or don't get a new role... so this sounds to me like a straight-up layoff to me.

I would treat any potential transfer role as any other job application and apply for others rather than holding out for a specific "transfer". Find out when your state allows applications for UI and do that. Some states and some types of wording in a layoff payment might delay any UI payments but best to get that moving.

You have some time for COBRA and healthcare. Stuff like 401K etc can be sorted out later, so there is not a whole lot that has to be done today.

Reach out to contacts as that is always a better way to get a new role. Good luck...
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
sailaway
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by sailaway »

The thing about me applying for this job is that you will polish up your resume and be ready to apply for other jobs. Go ahead and send out a few. It never hurts to hedge your bets.
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cheese_breath
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by cheese_breath »

CoAndy wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:21 am I would follow all the steps needed to reapply and attempt to stay on but also take steps to seek employment elsewhere. Be ready for any possible outcome. Good luck to you.
+1 Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.

Hit the job market now, and maybe you might find something better than you have now.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
stan1
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by stan1 »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:26 am
These things are done for profit and cost cutting. I think we know how this turns out.
I haven't seen this movie before - please, spell it out for me. Use small words. Pretend I'm about 8 years old.
I highly recommend you not head down this path emotionally. The worst thing you can possibly do for yourself, your family, and career is become bitter and negative. No matter what happens, you are a proven strong performer who enjoys your job. You have no control over what happens with the old company or the new company. That's business, and companies sell and buy departments all the time. Yes it is a period of uncertainty. Things may get better, or they may not get better.

What can you do? First, since you will have to do an interview brush up on those skills. Make a good impression. Interviews might be in person or by video. Update your resume, and keep in touch with the network of people who have worked with you over the years and know your abilities and work ethic. I'd think of it as needing a Plan B and a Plan C if Plan A doesn't work out.

I don't think you need to go into panic mode, such as cancelling a planned summer vacation or pulling kids out of summer camp to save money.
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Kagord
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Kagord »

How demoralizing, I give them an F in the morale department.

Unfortunately, it seems like we are slowly tilting back to the "Glengarry Glen Ross" days of 30-50 years ago.

Anyways, keep all options open and try to make the best of it.
Last edited by Kagord on Sat May 04, 2024 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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cheese_breath
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by cheese_breath »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:26 am
These things are done for profit and cost cutting. I think we know how this turns out.
I haven't seen this movie before - please, spell it out for me. Use small words. Pretend I'm about 8 years old.
What that means is, it's likely not everybody will be hired.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
SteadyOne
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by SteadyOne »

Start applying elsewhere. Interview for your own job is actually interview for some new job. Otherwise, why one needs to interview you? Why then not to interview for any other job?
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frostydrink
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by frostydrink »

A few years ago my entire department was moved to become a subsidiary of another entity within the same parent company. It all turned out for the best, but we also never had to apply for the new jobs. We had to sign termination letters, but they were immediately followed with the offer letters. Perhaps that's just because it was a smaller organization. It was still a very stressful time so I can understand how worried you must be. I do agree with the other advice to reapply while searching. As a top performer you should also have top chances of a successful application.
humblecoder
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by humblecoder »

On the one extreme, this could just be a formality. Since they are transferring you to this new corporate entity, perhaps treating it as a termination and then rehire into the new entity is "cleaner" from a process standpoint, but otherwise your job is safe.

On the other extreme, this could be used as a move to cull the herd. Perhaps the re-constituted department will have fewer FTE's than the old department. In this case, then your job could be in jeopardy since now it is an open competition for the limited seats.

That said, I feel like your employer is mishandling the situation.

If this is just a formality, why even use terms like "termination" in the communication. Just say that you are being transferred to the new entity. No reason to raise alarm if everything is good.

If this is a move to cull the herd, then they might achieve that goal, but not in the way that they intend. With the level of alarm that they just raised, the top performers who have options might not want to take the risk, so they are going to jump ship. The weaker performers probably don't have as many options, so they are more likely to wait around to see what happens. So the end result is that they may end up culling the strong performers, which is the opposite of they intend.

What they SHOULD be doing is identifying NOW who they want to keep and who they want to jettison. Then talk to those people. Tell the top performers that they are good.. we have a place for you. Tell the bottom performers that they have X days to reapply for a position within the company, otherwise they are laid off. Rip the bandage off now before the strong performance start to bail.

Anyway, that doesn't provide any advice on what YOU should do.

Here is what I would do in your situation.

1. I would see if I can find out what the true story is through my internal network of contacts at the company.

2. I would start to put feelers out with other companies in case the worst case scenario comes to pass. You don't want to be caught without a Plan B if you don't get a position with the new organization.

3. Ask what moving to this new entity means for your benefits. Many benefits (vesting, vacation time, etc) are tied to years of service. Will your seniority be retained? Or will you be back to square one. That might also inform your decision.


EDIT: The more I reflected on it, the more I think it is somewhat insulting for your employer to be forcing you to "re-apply" for your position. After 10 years, they should already have a pretty good idea of your performance level. If they don't, then that's pretty telling. It's like they are making you "sing for your supper".

Another example of how they are completely mishandling this situation.
Last edited by humblecoder on Sat May 04, 2024 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
ReadyOrNot
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by ReadyOrNot »

Take it at face value. It might be better to leave, or better to stay. You probably have a legitimate chance to stay, but no guarantee. When my megacorp employer transferred a function with a chunk of jobs to a lower cost location, they made the employees re-apply for jobs which had the somewhat lower wage scale of the new location. They genuinely wanted employees to fill the re-located jobs. No one in the function that I was familiar with took the offer. But a few in other functions may have.
Anyway, you must prepare for either case. Look for a new job, and re-apply for the old one. You may find either case to be better. You get no guarantees
flyingcows
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by flyingcows »

I've been in that situation before, twice. For me it was a bit stressful but ended up being financially lucrative both times. In my case it was a 2 month garden leave (WARN period) + considerable severance that was equal to about 8 months of compensation IF we didn't stay with the company. As the severance payout was decent, I decided to just look for external roles as I wanted that + a raise from taking a new job at a new employer, I set my start date for the new role as soon as the WARN period ended, the new role also paid more money.

If there was no severance from my company I would have spent time looking for internal roles, but if I did that, I would be applying for external roles at the same time.

My issue with internal roles is that they typically would just keep you at the same level of compensation, and your still thrown into a new situation with new people. If I'm changing jobs one way or another, might as well get a raise/negotiation out of it which tends to only happen when you take a job at an external employer but YMMV

Good luck!
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RetiredAL
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by RetiredAL »

My company did similar in the late 1990's with a large number of it's Corp IT positions. I was at a plant and not part of that transition. I retired in 2016 and several were still around, several work until their retirement, and others went on to other companies, some right away, others over time. I have no recollection of any that wanted to stay that were not hired by the new outsourced company.

There's irony to the happening. Company wanted to install new modern Integrated Accounting/Data System. Well, it took 2x longer, 5 years, to come online than was expected. Some legacy application were not replaced by the new system and had to be integrated. New manufacturing controls/data systems came online. When I retired, the total Corp level IT headcount was larger than before they transitioned.
upwind
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by upwind »

This “different corporate entity” is it part of the larger group of companies of your current organization or is it a third party outsourcing rebadge situation? Or something else? This may make a big difference in how likely you really want to be there especially long term.

What sort of terms are they offering? Credit for years worked for PTO and like or starting from zero? Benefits for health or starting anew?

I have been through this sort of situation (outsourcing rebadge) and although something of mess worked out OK but not an improvement and always realized the clock was ticking down.

Start with resume. Sounds like you are going to need it no matter what path you go. Also look around at what is available elsewhere. If there is something as desirable I’d apply for it. See how the process plays out at current company. Trying to stay put may work out fine but realize that this is not necessarily business as usual, especially if outsourcing situation, and have the mind set that even if you continue on it might become an increasingly different work experience.

Most importantly remember keep emotions in check and do what is best to ensure you keep drawing a pay check. Many people do stupid things that result in them being shown the door during these sort of periods because of emotions and resentment.
Last edited by upwind on Sat May 04, 2024 10:04 am, edited 7 times in total.
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campy2010
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by campy2010 »

I’ve been part of several divestitures where you do have to sign new employee paperwork with the new org but none have ever required re-applying for the role. If you’re not a low performer then I wouldn’t worry about it now. Once divestiture happen, i have found that it typically takes about a year for the changes to start to come.
Mike Scott
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Mike Scott »

I would give it a week or three to hear any more specific info or details. If it remains a termination/reapply scenario then you should apply broadly as well as following up on this job. You should look at any competing opportunities because there may or may not be a place for you with the new employer.

I just found out yesterday that we are getting another surprise reorganization this summer but all of the current positions are continuing. It makes no sense and will not change anything but here we go.
safari
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by safari »

I suggest talking to HR to find out more details. People on this board are just guessing, as nobody knows your specific situation. Here are the questions I would ask:

1. What severance package will you receive, if you're not rehired?
2. Do you have to apply for a job at the new company as a condition for getting the severance package? In other words, can you choose to collect the severance without reapplying for a job?
3. If you are rehired for the same role at the new company, will there be any change to your compensation and benefits?
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Dottie57 »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:25 am
SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am These may be really stupid questions. I'm in my forties but only in my second job of my adult life, and the first job change was clean and simple: heard of something better, applied and accepted, off I went. Things have been great at job 2 for over a decade - until yesterday.

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new. The 'transfer' will be completed by late summer.

Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be. The corporate-speak is thick. Are we really being 'transferred' if we have to reapply? I feel if it were a layoff, period, I'd know what to do: make even painful spending cuts. Apply for new jobs immediately. But I actually deeply enjoy my current job, and if I could more or less continue it under a new employer, I'd try to stay. Am I being naive to think staying is feasible, or that my 'new' job could reasonably resemble my old one? I have repeatedly been told I am a 'top performer' at my current job, but, have no idea if that will be known by, or matter to, the new place (since I don't know THEIR strategic goals, or the value they'd apply to my skillset).

We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
1
For yourself and your "self", "respond logically and methodically after full research", rather than "react" which is clouded emotion filled with uncertainty.
2
Talk to HR, and whatever dept and whoever you need to at your current employer to find out "exactly", in detail, with "verifiable information" what is taking place, etc.
If you don't know enough, then there is "uncertainty".
3
If there is indeed a permanent "layoff/fired/etc" no matter the terminology, with a good possibility of having no employer at some point, then begin looking "now" for other career / job opportunities.
It does not hurt the present circumstances to "find out";
if you can find; fed/state/city comparable jobs
if you can find comparable jobs where you live
etc.
4
10 years from now, you might look at this point in your working career as something that happened and you went on to better jobs and higher pay and more rewarding endeavors.
So, "change" does not beget "catastrophe". It is just...."change".
It is our resistance to "change" that makes things feel catastrophic.

Best of luck.
Move forward.
j :D
This.

Plus if you are not hired into the different part of comany are you laid off? Are you eligible for compensation?

Start looking for new employment now. A company that does this is not a good employer.

A division in my company told all software developers they had to reapply for their jobs. They could take severance since they were laid off or apply. All of the really good developers took severance pay and got new jobs which paid better. Company was left with the middling developers. Mgmt was shocked, shocked I say!

OP, this may be a good opportunity. Really work hard to finding a new job. It may take a while to find.
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Watty
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Watty »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be.
Companies are required by federal law to give 60 days notice of mass layoffs and some states may even require more notice.

Part of the plan could be to have you stick around for another two months in order to train your replacements and wind down projects as part of applying with the new division even though there is little chance of you being hired by the new company.

If they just told you that everyone was being laid off in 60 days then at best little work would get done and some employees may do malicious things.

If this was just a matter of moving the group to a new division then they would just put a new sign on the building and lay off any low performers that they wanted to get rid of.

I have not been in this exact situation but in other times when it was clear that there would be layoffs and reorganizations soon I have had a manager quietly take me aside and tell me not to worry since they really wanted to keep me. There is a good chance that your immediate manager does not really know a lot more than you but at some point soon the key people that they want to keep will likely be talked to privately in order to encourage them to stick around. If this does not happen soon then I would be very concerned.

In any halfway rational company(not Tesla or Twitter) the upper management already has a tentative list of who they want to keep.

One thing that was not in your post was what the severance package will be if you do not get offered a job at the new company.

If you will be getting a great severance package then don't panic and jump ship early.

Also keep in mind that if you are offered a position with the new company it might be at lower pay or in a different location. Even if the new position is in the same city it could be on the other side of town which would be a bad commute.

Your position may also be different with the new company which you may not like as much.

I was once in a merger where they were shutting down my location and everyone had the choice of either taking a severance package based on the years of service(mine was about six months pay) or having a paid relocation to the other side of the country.

For a number of non job reasons relocating made sense for me so of over 100 people I was one of the 3 people who choose the relocation and it worked out well for me. For most people relocating was not an option because they had family in the area.

The people who did not take the severance package were required to stay up to the better part of a year until their job responsibilities were transferred to someone else. Some people were laid off after a few months and some people had to stick around for something like six or nine months(I forget) but the uncertainty of when your last day would be made looking for your next job difficult.
SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
You should definitely put your job search into high gear but if you will be getting a good severance package say that you will not be available until as late as September when you are interviewing(not in your cover letter). While it might not work for every potential employer they will understand you sticking around to get your severance package. It is also common for people to take a few weeks off between jobs so a somewhat delayed start is normal.

If you do get offered a great position with your current company then you can always take that instead and the only thing you will have lost was the time looking for another job.
finite_difference
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by finite_difference »

CoAndy wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:21 am I would follow all the steps needed to reapply and attempt to stay on but also take steps to seek employment elsewhere. Be ready for any possible outcome. Good luck to you.
+1.
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Ependytis
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Ependytis »

As others have said, I would spend my all all my energy, hoping for the best and planning for the worst. Change can be difficult, but it can also mean new opportunities.
hoofaman
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by hoofaman »

The longer you have remained with the same employer the more likely it is that you are underpaid compared to an equivalent role at another employer.

Sounds like you have been there a long time, if I was in that situation I would follow the internal process to "re-apply" but I would also be searching for a new employer externally. Ideally you could find a better paying role at a new company and get severance

Not looking externally at all is a risk since it sounds like you may or may not have a job there in a few months
MarkRoulo
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by MarkRoulo »

Watty wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 10:31 am
SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am Help me understand where on the scale of alarm to be.
Companies are required by federal law to give 60 days notice of mass layoffs and some states may even require more notice.

Part of the plan could be to have you stick around for another two months in order to train your replacements and wind down projects as part of applying with the new division even though there is little chance of you being hired by the new company.

If they just told you that everyone was being laid off in 60 days then at best little work would get done and some employees may do malicious things.

If this was just a matter of moving the group to a new division then they would just put a new sign on the building and lay off any low performers that they wanted to get rid of.

I have not been in this exact situation but in other times when it was clear that there would be layoffs and reorganizations soon I have had a manager quietly take me aside and tell me not to worry since they really wanted to keep me. There is a good chance that your immediate manager does not really know a lot more than you but at some point soon the key people that they want to keep will likely be talked to privately in order to encourage them to stick around. If this does not happen soon then I would be very concerned.

In any halfway rational company(not Tesla or Twitter) the upper management already has a tentative list of who they want to keep.

One thing that was not in your post was what the severance package will be if you do not get offered a job at the new company.

If you will be getting a great severance package then don't panic and jump ship early.

Also keep in mind that if you are offered a position with the new company it might be at lower pay or in a different location. Even if the new position is in the same city it could be on the other side of town which would be a bad commute.

Your position may also be different with the new company which you may not like as much.

I was once in a merger where they were shutting down my location and everyone had the choice of either taking a severance package based on the years of service(mine was about six months pay) or having a paid relocation to the other side of the country.

For a number of non job reasons relocating made sense for me so of over 100 people I was one of the 3 people who choose the relocation and it worked out well for me. For most people relocating was not an option because they had family in the area.

The people who did not take the severance package were required to stay up to the better part of a year until their job responsibilities were transferred to someone else. Some people were laid off after a few months and some people had to stick around for something like six or nine months(I forget) but the uncertainty of when your last day would be made looking for your next job difficult.
SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
You should definitely put your job search into high gear but if you will be getting a good severance package say that you will not be available until as late as September when you are interviewing(not in your cover letter). While it might not work for every potential employer they will understand you sticking around to get your severance package. It is also common for people to take a few weeks off between jobs so a somewhat delayed start is normal.

If you do get offered a great position with your current company then you can always take that instead and the only thing you will have lost was the time looking for another job.
What Watty just posted.

I'll elaborate a tiny bit: You don't want to update your resume and start a job search because job searches are not fun. You are hoping that everything works out fine and you can continue with your current job that you deeply enjoy. Start the job search anyhow. Take it seriously (so don't half-ass it). With luck you won't need to find a new job (!) but you CANNOT operate on that assumption.
livingalmostlarge
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by livingalmostlarge »

Good luck. Take the polished resume and start looking just in case.
Anina
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Anina »

I had the same thing happen to me. The place I worked at was bought out. I had to submit a resume and apply for my position. I then had to sign a new contract because it was now a new company. I think it is because of the contracts. They wanted everything on the up and up with the current company and not the old.

I also worked part time for another entity and when the contract expired, I was let go. They then asked me to resubmit my resume and I signed a new contract.

You have value. You know the history of the previous company. You know the systems. You know the people.

So, it might just be the contracts.

Good luck to you. I hope things work out for you.
TravelFund
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by TravelFund »

I’ve been in a similar (but not identical situation). My suggestions:

1) At least fake being positive to the new company- people have a lot of emotions and they are noticed and can impact the trajectory at the new place (for better and worse)

2) Update resume and quietly put feelers for new opportunities. You may need to and you may find a better opportunity. No one is going to blame you for looking during this time (and they may be hoping people are).

3) Now is a good time to look at finances and make sure they reflect your values/priorities. It is a stressful and uncertain time - cutting expenses drastically may not make total sense, but you want to make sure money spent is helping you and your family meaningfully.

For me it ended up working out well enough- a large portion of the team I enjoy ended up at the new company and we were allowed to continue the culture that made us like our jobs. This may not be typical - but all change isn’t necessarily bad (even and maybe especially for those who don’t seek it out).

Best wishes for your endeavors- don’t forget to take care of yourself. For me this was a companies won’t take care of you as you and the people in your life will watershed moment. Life is too short- find what works for you and your family.
123
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by 123 »

This is a notification of upcoming layoffs that will occur in late summer. Not everyone will be laid off.

If the new division will be requiring applications it clearly means that they may accept new outside hires over internal carryovers.

You want to find out what the severance pay practices are at your company.

For those that have skills and knowledge that might be valuable to other employers it would be a good time to start looking.
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id0ntkn0wjack
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by id0ntkn0wjack »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am

Yesterday my employer announced my entire department is being 'transferred' to a different corporate entity. While their 'goal' is to 'transfer everyone', we also are officially being terminated from the current employer and have to reapply for jobs with the new.
If you are going to have to apply to be employed at the "transfer" company, it might also be a good time to apply with other companies as well. There's no guarantee that the transfer will accept you and it's a) far better to be ahead of the curve and b) a great opportunity to discover how the market values your skillset.

Perhaps you will find a new company that's a better fit with more comp & benefits than what you have been earning.
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windaar
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by windaar »

TravelFund wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 2:58 pmFor me this was a companies won’t take care of you as you and the people in your life will watershed moment.
Great advice. I realized a long time ago that my colleagues and co-workers are not my friends and management/execs/HR are flat-out enemies. I get along with everyone at work, and I enjoy my work. But this must be remembered, because it is the reality.
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Muad-Dib
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Muad-Dib »

Adding on for details around severance. If you have to apply to new roles you’ve been constructively laid off already. Do you have an employee handbook with this policies spelled out?
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by Juice3 »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:26 am
These things are done for profit and cost cutting. I think we know how this turns out.
I haven't seen this movie before - please, spell it out for me. Use small words. Pretend I'm about 8 years old.
@Savin you have been put on notice that change is coming. 8yo do not work.

Even if you are hired by the new company for your old job, you can be sure that change is still coming and your old job is very likely changing. The new company will likely change the status quo. Your company knows and has planned this for whatever reason.

Don't give up on yourself. Look and see how the change will fit and impact you and make plans accordingly. Stop fearing change.
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watchnerd
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by watchnerd »

investingdad wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:22 am These things are done for profit and cost cutting. I think we know how this turns out.
That was my reaction, as well.
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LiveSimple
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by LiveSimple »

OP, similar to your situation I am in the company... only thing that we can manage is our marketable skills, others we cannot depend on..
Sure we can avoid some with our quality work, but not always...
Invest when you have the money, sell when you need the money, for real life expenses...
michaeljc70
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by michaeljc70 »

cheese_breath wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:40 am
CoAndy wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 8:21 am I would follow all the steps needed to reapply and attempt to stay on but also take steps to seek employment elsewhere. Be ready for any possible outcome. Good luck to you.
+1 Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.

Hit the job market now, and maybe you might find something better than you have now.
Yes. I'd be proactive and not wait and see if they decide to rehire you. If they do and you don't come across any better opportunities before then no harm done.
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hand
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by hand »

This is unlikely to be a positive change.

If you weren't part of the team making the decision to take this action or are part of the team making future staffing decisions, at best, your good stable job is being changed to a good unstable job. At worst, this is the harbinger of a future layoff / sale / outsourcing.

Good news is that you have time and your employer is encouraging you to update your resume.

Take the time to get a bunch of applications out into the world to see if there are better / other opportunities out there before the situation becomes critical.
SmallSaver
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by SmallSaver »

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Have a plan in place for if you do lose your job, or it becomes intolerable. Beef up your emergency fund. Get your resume brushed up, reach out to your network, and check out the job market. Crucially, don't cling to the hope that everything will be fine as your only plan - prepare yourself mentally now to be fired or to walk away. The feeling of having some control will ease your mind.
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by BetterPaws »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
Sorry to hear your situation. It may be hard but I think it's possible. In our recent restructuring, the restructure decision was made by C-suites, but the subsequent re-hiring was done by front-line managers. A colleague of mine was laid off initially due to the restructuring but was hired back into the restructured unit (with a few months of gap, though). It does not hurt to re-apply as you would have nothing further to lose with this specific employer. Most people would be too proud to do that.
HappyPappy
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by HappyPappy »

I would assume the company will act in its own self interests, not yours. You have the right, and responsibility to yourself and your family, to do the same, ie look out for your own self-interests and no one else's. Exercising that right means, in my opinion, looking for other positions in addition to applying for your current job with the new company. It's just business, nothing personal. If they really wanted to keep certain people, they wouldn't "terminate" them in the first place. Or at least you wouldn't need to re-apply.

Better to proactive than to wait and find yourself reacting to a situation where you are not brought back with the new company.
AlwaysLearningMore
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by AlwaysLearningMore »

Very sorry to hear about the situation. But as a strong performer, you can perform well in any organization. Remember that.

Always wise to make sure you're up-to-date with your State's unemployment application and laws. No one wants to go down that route, but it's always wise to be up on the specifics.

Polishing up the résumé, ensuring your LinkedIn profile is up-to-date, and general networking are always good ideas.

As others have stated, personally I would take the interviews very seriously and carefully follow all steps. If you have not interviewed for a job in a while, there' are some good books giving tips on interviewing/answering interview questions.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* | FIRE'd July 2023
momopi
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Re: How to react - laid off / outsourced

Post by momopi »

SavinMaven wrote: Sat May 04, 2024 7:44 am We're in respectable shape financially but I feel I can't afford a big mistake - we have two teenagers and my spouse, who's my age, has a life-limiting illness. Am I being ridiculous to think staying is truly possible? Should I wait it out and see how the transition goes? Should I apply broadly immediately and get out ASAP? Thanks for any thoughts you can share.
I'd suggest updating your resume and check LinkedIn learning for some online classes, update your skillset, write better resume, and do better interviews. But no, they haven't laid you off yet. Unless if you find something better, I wouldn't leave without the severance.

As for your spouse's situation, if you cannot find a suitable solution here, consider looking abroad in places like Thailand for more affordable nursing home care.
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