My credit score has dropped sharply, but my other credit score has not changed.

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Swiss Chard
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:04 am

My credit score has dropped sharply, but my other credit score has not changed.

Post by Swiss Chard »

The credit score seen on the Amex portal has dropped significantly, but the credit score seen on the Chase portal has not changed at all.
Both information is provided by Experian, but Amex is FICO 8 and Chase is Vantage 3.0.

Which one should I trust? Or is there some kind of mistake?
To be more specific, FICO has been 782 since the end of the year, then 738 at the end of February and 732 at the end of March.
It is going down and down.
Vantage has been at 806 for a long time and has not changed in any particular way.

There are 4 possible factors
Last November my 9 year old Chase Freedom was closed because I didn't use it
In January, my oldest credit card of 11 years was fraudulent and had to be reissued
In January, I opened Amex Gold Card
I closed my chase UA card in February after a year before the annual fee was due

As mentioned above, I have opened and cancelled credit cards every year and have been a victim of fraud a few times.
But my score has never dropped like this.

I have no loans, no credit checks shows, my overall credit utilized low, pay my statement balance every month, and have never been late.

Will these reasons lower my credit score that much?
Why did one credit score drop and the other remain unchanged?

I was informed that my medical insurance was a victim of Data Breach recently, does this have anything to do with it :confused
madbrain
Posts: 7476
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:06 pm
Location: San Jose, California

Re: My credit score has dropped sharply, but my other credit score has not changed.

Post by madbrain »

Check your credit report for any fraud.
It is free once a week at annualcreditreport.com .
syngameon
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2024 5:35 pm

Re: My credit score has dropped sharply, but my other credit score has not changed.

Post by syngameon »

The very first thing you should check is all three of your credit reports. Check to see if there are any accounts, balances or negative payment information that you do not recognize. Closing credit cards increases the debt to credit available ratio, which can lower your score to an extent.

Make sure that when Chase closed your card, it was not reported in a negative way. Credit inquiries stay on your report for a long time. So it's best not to apply for new credit unless you absolutely need it.
Lastrun
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Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 6:46 pm

Re: My credit score has dropped sharply, but my other credit score has not changed.

Post by Lastrun »

Swiss Chard wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:38 pm Will these reasons lower my credit score that much?
Why did one credit score drop and the other remain unchanged?
Let me focus on these questions.

Yes, it is possible your score could drop that much based on what you have provided.

As a datapoint, my credit score fluctuates from 800-830 every month, based solely on utilization across cards, and mostly because of utilization on a single card. My oldest account is 36 years old, youngest is 5 years old, never been late on a payment. I used to be 820-850 but I paid off my mortgage and car loans a few years ago, so I only have credit cards on my report.

You have four things that occurred here that would impact your score:

1. A card was cancelled in November because of nonuse. So this caused your total credit line to decrease, and likely caused your typical utilization to increase across your accounts. Also, you may have increased personal spending during that period as well, holidays, travel, on only one card to further exacerbate utilization.

2. This November card was 9 years old, with an 11 year oldest card, this would likely drop you average age of accounts, dropping your score a little as well.

3. You then applied for Amex in January, this could (not sure) have had a hard inquiry, again dropping your score a little. This would also factor in on your average age of accounts, which could possibly lower your score.

4. You then closed your Chase UA Card, this again, like item 1 above, reduced your total credit line and likely caused an increase in utilization. Because this account was only one year old, likely no impact on age of accounts.

So unknowns are the actual dates of reporting, dates of cancellations above, and your utilization. I mean, if you charge $10,000 for a trip or Xmas gifts above your normal spend, your score is going to drop.

I would not trust Vantage 3.0, it is just a different score. BUT, Chase does have a What's Changed function on their Credit Journey site. Have you taken a look at that, it may show you some things and you can go back in time?
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grabiner
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Re: My credit score has dropped sharply, but my other credit score has not changed.

Post by grabiner »

Even if the two scores are based on the same data, you may hit a quirk in the system. The most common issue is multiple scorecards; there are different models for different categories of borrowers. Credit Karma no longer has a simulator, but for several years, it said that my score would go up significantly if I increased my balances owed from $X to $X+1, where $X varied by month but was usually several thousand. Presumably, at $X, I was compared to a group of people with low debt, and at $X+1, I was compared to a group of people with medium debt; the rest of my credit looked better on the medium-debt profile.

Another example of a quirk is a strict cutoff. Again, I saw this on Credit Karma, back in 2013 when it had a Trans Union score and a VantageScore 2.0. In May, I had six credit cards reported, three open, and had a balance on all three. In June, I had lower total balances, but one of the closed cards aged off my report. My VantageScore 2.0 rose slightly, while my Trans Union score dropped to the lowest level it had ever been. In July, I had no balance on one of the cards, and my Trans Union score went back up to the May level. Apparently, Trans Union penalized me significantly for having a balance on more than half my accounts (including the closed ones), so going from three of six to three of five cost me, and then going to two of five eliminated the penalty.
Wiki David Grabiner
exodusNH
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Re: My credit score has dropped sharply, but my other credit score has not changed.

Post by exodusNH »

Swiss Chard wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:38 pm The credit score seen on the Amex portal has dropped significantly, but the credit score seen on the Chase portal has not changed at all.
Both information is provided by Experian, but Amex is FICO 8 and Chase is Vantage 3.0.

Which one should I trust? Or is there some kind of mistake?
To be more specific, FICO has been 782 since the end of the year, then 738 at the end of February and 732 at the end of March.
It is going down and down.
Vantage has been at 806 for a long time and has not changed in any particular way.

There are 4 possible factors
Last November my 9 year old Chase Freedom was closed because I didn't use it
In January, my oldest credit card of 11 years was fraudulent and had to be reissued
In January, I opened Amex Gold Card
I closed my chase UA card in February after a year before the annual fee was due

As mentioned above, I have opened and cancelled credit cards every year and have been a victim of fraud a few times.
But my score has never dropped like this.

I have no loans, no credit checks shows, my overall credit utilized low, pay my statement balance every month, and have never been late.

Will these reasons lower my credit score that much?
Why did one credit score drop and the other remain unchanged?

I was informed that my medical insurance was a victim of Data Breach recently, does this have anything to do with it :confused
It could be a combination of a few points from each of those.

Vantage and FICO 8 are different scoring models. There will be variation. They also only matter in regards to credit cards. Insurance and mortgages use different scores. Every person probably has around 40 different "credit scores" with different factor weightings based on what each is trying to measure.

Credit card balances seem to have an outsized impact.

Currently, for me:

BoA: 821 (TU FICO 8)
Chase: 823 (Vantage 3)
Citi: 854 (Equifax FICO Bankcard 8)
Wells Fargo: 830 (Experian FICO 9)

They all have the same meaningful data. The Chase score shows that I only have 1% credit use. BoA is always my lowest score.

There's a 33 point difference between the FIFO 8 scores at BoA and Citi. Who knows why.
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grabiner
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:58 pm
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: My credit score has dropped sharply, but my other credit score has not changed.

Post by grabiner »

exodusNH wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:36 pm BoA: 821 (TU FICO 8)
Chase: 823 (Vantage 3)
Citi: 854 (Equifax FICO Bankcard 8)
Wells Fargo: 830 (Experian FICO 9)

They all have the same meaningful data. The Chase score shows that I only have 1% credit use. BoA is always my lowest score.
And this shows another issue: raw credit scores from different systems are not comparable. To compare different scores, you need to consider the relative ranking.

The range varies by score; most FICO scores top out at 850, so your 854 from Citi cannot be better than an 850 somewhere else. And even if the scores are on the same range, they may not have the same distribution; the 80th percentile of a 300-850 score might be 760 with one score and 800 with another.
Wiki David Grabiner
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