Buying a toy vehicle as reward

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Josh5000
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Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Josh5000 »

I want either a sport car or most likely a road warrior truck camper setup as reward. My finance puts in the the upper 5% of Americans or roughly lower average for a boglehead. I can handle the purchase cost in cash and after much research I can also justify such as. The costs I currently cannot justify is insurance and personal property tax and fees as I am in Virginia.

The truck camper would motivate me to be on the roads more and improve quality of life and health so that is a long term investment aspect of it. I can definitely afford it due to being frugal and keep current vehicle purchases to the minimum and driving the same two vehicles over the period of 23 years; one is 2002 and another is '12 with plenty of life left.

The road warrior purchase would save on hotel cost and afford me to do things I really want.

Should I research on how to lower my ongoing taxes and fees first before buying or just watch youtube videos and live vicariously through dreams of others?
afan
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by afan »

I would spend the money on a personal finance course instead.
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sailaway
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by sailaway »

Do you have space for the truck camper at home or would you also have to pay for storage? When we considered an RV, we couldn't justify the carrying costs vs a rental for as much use as we could get out of it.
runner3081
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by runner3081 »

Not a sure bet that buying something will motivate you to change behavior.
z3r0c00l
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by z3r0c00l »

No one ever seems to take advantage of campers/RVs as much as expected, nor do they seem to save money over hotels. Most go largely unused and get sold for a pittance years down the road after mostly sitting around.

When you say more time on the road, do you mean spending your time driving a truck on the highway is a goal? That strikes me as something to be avoided, maybe a necessary evil when you travel, but certainly not something that you want to do more of. (Not least because driving is really bad for your health, especially middle-age men, and is also dangerous.)

I suggest saving your money and spending it on nice vacations instead. It will take years, maybe decades to spend as much on travel around the US as a good RV would cost to buy and operate.
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MostlyABogleHead
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by MostlyABogleHead »

Instead of buying a camper right now, I recommend renting it from sites such as via Rvshare or outdoorsy for a year. Try it that way to see if you use it enough to justify the extra spend. In the short term it might look expensive per trip, but it’s a learning experience to know if you will actually use the vehicle (and get the benefits by being outside more).


In otherwords, have a way to test that lifestyle for a year without putting in a lot of upfront capital and expenses. If you like that lifestyle, actually have the time to spend on it and you experience the benefits then you can buy the vehicle with confidence.
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CenTexan
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by CenTexan »

If your finances are sound, employment is secure, and you are convinced you are on track to amass enough savings for a healthy retirement (not dpending on just Social Security) and future, go for it. I bought a BMW roadster in mid-40s and enjoyed it for 12 great years. Great memory to have - and now I know I don't need another roadster!
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by KlangFool »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm
I want either a sport car or most likely a road warrior truck camper setup as reward. My finance puts in the the upper 5% of Americans or roughly lower average for a boglehead. I can handle the purchase cost in cash and after much research I can also justify such as. The costs I currently cannot justify is insurance and personal property tax and fees as I am in Virginia.
Josh5000,

Either you can afford or justify the purchase and ongoing maintenance cost or you can't. My retired friend just sold off his RV. He can no longer justify spending 2K per month on his RV.

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Padlin
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Padlin »

Where do you live? A truck camper is a waste if you’re east of the Mississippi. If I were buying another camper I’d get another Escape, at least you can disconnect to run around, mpg is good, last forever, and there is almost zero depreciation.
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Josh5000
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Josh5000 »

All,

There seems to be some confusion between being able to afford it versus justification for the costs. I can easily afford and, after much research, justify the purchase cost. I just can’t seem to justify the recurrent cost such as insurance and personal property taxes (Virginia car tax is very high and even higher for RV and camper.)

Including a package of a new F350 and a new truck camper, I am looking at a total of under $100k. Personal property taxes will be high, possible over $2k annually. My little 13 years Honda Fit still cost several hundreds dollars in personal property taxes annually and about $400 annual for insurance at the estimate value of $3k. I can’t imagine what a $100k personal property asset would cost in taxes and insurance. Then there is registration fees, which isn’t cheap for F350. This is why I am not even looking at Class B van that starts around $200k or RV camper, which would require two separate registration, higher personal property taxes in the RV camper versus a truck camper top, and even much higher required versus optional insurance on the RV camper.

Financially, I am not as concern about running out of money now versus having to pay too much taxes even when I draw pension, SS or SS gap annuity until 62, 401k, Roth, brokerage account, and at least two more streams of income. I am not wealthy by any mean but has been a great saver. For comfortable living, I really only need my pension as the house is paid off recently.

I think the best bet maybe to go rent a setup to see if I am cut out for it. I have a trip to Canada coming up, it maybe a good opportunity for see if this would fit me.

Another reason for looking at truck camper setup is that I would likely be driving the truck 2 days per week without the camper or use the whole truck camper setup every weekend. I am in the 4th quarter of my career and will need to start winding down to 4-day work week like my colleague who travels every weekend and own 3 RV campers, two truck rigs, and 3 full service RV lots.

And yes, I can park this at my house as a whole package but not as two separate units due to incline; I bought a house on the hill on the edge of town like they sang about in country songs.
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Josh5000
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Josh5000 »

Padlin wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:36 pm Where do you live? A truck camper is a waste if you’re east of the Mississippi. If I were buying another camper I’d get another Escape, at least you can disconnect to run around, mpg is good, last forever, and there is almost zero depreciation.
I live in VA not far from DC. It is on old 6-bedroom (all bedrooms on one floor) mansion before everyone can afford and demand a mansion even when they have no jobs. I luck out with the purchase in 2009 at the lowest point of the crash and most people couldn’t afford house in the range.
London
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by London »

If you can afford it and still hit your other financial goals, go ahead. Only ask a “should I buy it” question on this forum if you want to be told not to do it. If you have your act together, spending money is ok. Especially on things that will make you happy.
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Watty
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Watty »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm Should I research on how to lower my ongoing taxes and fees first before buying or just watch youtube videos and live vicariously through dreams of others?
Of course you should research all the costs before deciding what to do so that there are not any surprises.

The problem is that you are setting yourself up with a false dilemma where to talk like there are only two choice. There is a lot in between buying a $100K truck/camper and sitting at home watching Youtube.

For example even without skimping you could buy a new Ford Maverick for about $30K with the 4K towing package and a $20K trailer that would be much better than your truck camper. The Maverick would be a much better daily driver when you are not out camping and also get a lot better gas mileage. That is just one random alternative but there are pretty much unlimited other alternatives too.

If you use some intermediate option for a few years and find that you like it and you use it a lot you could then move up to the monster truck if you still want it.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by H-Town »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:40 pm All,

There seems to be some confusion between being able to afford it versus justification for the costs. I can easily afford and, after much research, justify the purchase cost. I just can’t seem to justify the recurrent cost such as insurance and personal property taxes (Virginia car tax is very high and even higher for RV and camper.)

Including a package of a new F350 and a new truck camper, I am looking at a total of under $100k. Personal property taxes will be high, possible over $2k annually. My little 13 years Honda Fit still cost several hundreds dollars in personal property taxes annually and about $400 annual for insurance at the estimate value of $3k. I can’t imagine what a $100k personal property asset would cost in taxes and insurance. Then there is registration fees, which isn’t cheap for F350. This is why I am not even looking at Class B van that starts around $200k or RV camper, which would require two separate registration, higher personal property taxes in the RV camper versus a truck camper top, and even much higher required versus optional insurance on the RV camper.

Financially, I am not as concern about running out of money now versus having to pay too much taxes even when I draw pension, SS or SS gap annuity until 62, 401k, Roth, brokerage account, and at least two more streams of income. I am not wealthy by any mean but has been a great saver. For comfortable living, I really only need my pension as the house is paid off recently.

I think the best bet maybe to go rent a setup to see if I am cut out for it. I have a trip to Canada coming up, it maybe a good opportunity for see if this would fit me.

Another reason for looking at truck camper setup is that I would likely be driving the truck 2 days per week without the camper or use the whole truck camper setup every weekend. I am in the 4th quarter of my career and will need to start winding down to 4-day work week like my colleague who travels every weekend and own 3 RV campers, two truck rigs, and 3 full service RV lots.

And yes, I can park this at my house as a whole package but not as two separate units due to incline; I bought a house on the hill on the edge of town like they sang about in country songs.
I don't get it. If you can easily afford 100k for a new truck camper, a $2k annual tax would deter you from this new shiny toy? A house on the hill would have a bigger property tax bill than the tax on your new toy, wouldn't it?

If I know I can afford something and I want to buy it, I would already bought it yesterday. To stay active, I go run in my local park and lift in my local gym. I don't think a camper would motivate me doing something active. But that's just me.
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WeakOldGuy
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by WeakOldGuy »

I think you are good to go.

You haven't fooled yourself into thinking it is a wise financial decision.
You know that it is nothing more than a rapidly depreciating asset.
You can afford the expense without derailing your financial plan.

Your description of it as a "toy" is wise. A toy is something that is purchased just for entertainment for us and the people in our lives. Some folks just have more expensive toys than others.

I have owned two sports cars. Both were great but had not value outside of their entertainment value. Sure, I raced autocross with them which did give me some decent exercise and social interaction, but there are cheaper ways to do that. One was also a daily driver for years, but again there are more practical daily drivers (like a Honda Fit maybe).

I also have purchased large and small boats. A boat is a ridiculously expensive toy. I am currently on my third "largish" boat. It isn't huge, only 43'. Very expensive in every possible way, but it is a toy that I and my family enjoy.

So you will be going into a purchase like this with your eyes wide open. If you think the enjoyment you get from the purchase is worth the cost, go for it.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by TomatoTomahto »

My only problem is framing a vehicle purchase as a “reward.” We have spent six digit amounts on vehicles, but would never refer to it as a reward. Good luck.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Doom&Gloom »

A reward for exactly what?

Do you intend to punish yourself when the opposite happens?
If so, how would you do that? Buying an overpriced 10 year-old Porsche with known issues?
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by upwind »

Human beings are able to justify just about anything they do or want to do.

The red flag for me is you have 2 very different options on the table but are unclear or indifferent about which it seems. That makes me question the wisdom of doing anything at this stage. I think the gist of title sums it up “I want a toy as a reward “. Then we can go home and get some dinner I guess. I’d think carefully before spending the money and if I want either. Rewarding myself wouldn’t be a consideration. That said if one of these really does represent a prudent purchase for you that will provide satisfaction and enjoyment go for it.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

What sports car would you consider. I ask from a depreciation standpoint. A Maserati Gran Sport drops to nothing in about 5 years while a Porsche 911 would likely be sold for what you paid for it in 5 years. Then there's the obvious....MIATA.

So here's my proposal. Buy a Miata. Get 3 times the gas mileage of a loaded F350. Avoid campground costs. Stay at motels and go wherever you want. I would bet you'll pay less with the Miata than with the F350. And with Ford's reliability gone down the toilet (more recalls the last 3 years than any other maker), you can actually drive the car rather than waiting for your Ford dealer to get a part. Someone mentioned autocross. You could join a local Miata club and/or autocross club and have fun learning to drive on weekends. Maintenance will be close to nothing. You could even sell your current ancient car to get rid of the personal property tax. Zoom Zoom
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02nz
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by 02nz »

KlangFool wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:12 pm
Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm
I want either a sport car or most likely a road warrior truck camper setup as reward. My finance puts in the the upper 5% of Americans or roughly lower average for a boglehead. I can handle the purchase cost in cash and after much research I can also justify such as. The costs I currently cannot justify is insurance and personal property tax and fees as I am in Virginia.
Josh5000,

Either you can afford or justify the purchase and ongoing maintenance cost or you can't. My retired friend just sold off his RV. He can no longer justify spending 2K per month on his RV.

KlangFool
+1. It's a bit like saying "I can justify the cost of three of the four wheels but not the fourth." It's all part of the cost of ownership.
20cm
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by 20cm »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm The road warrior purchase would save on hotel cost and afford me to do things I really want.
Have you run the numbers on this, including both the opportunity cost of the upfront purchase expense and the ongoing costs? You might be surprised at how many annual hotel nights it takes to break even.
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FreddieFIRE
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by FreddieFIRE »

I live in an apartment and drive a 4Runner. When I vacation, I stay wherever I want to (usually a free Hyatt room with CC points). Life is good and I don't have to ask people on the internet for support in throwing away money on things I don't need.
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chassis
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by chassis »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm I want either a sport car or most likely a road warrior truck camper setup as reward. My finance puts in the the upper 5% of Americans or roughly lower average for a boglehead. I can handle the purchase cost in cash and after much research I can also justify such as. The costs I currently cannot justify is insurance and personal property tax and fees as I am in Virginia.

The truck camper would motivate me to be on the roads more and improve quality of life and health so that is a long term investment aspect of it. I can definitely afford it due to being frugal and keep current vehicle purchases to the minimum and driving the same two vehicles over the period of 23 years; one is 2002 and another is '12 with plenty of life left.

The road warrior purchase would save on hotel cost and afford me to do things I really want.

Should I research on how to lower my ongoing taxes and fees first before buying or just watch youtube videos and live vicariously through dreams of others?
Buy it if you want it and can afford both the purchase price outlay and ongoing costs (insurance, taxes, etc.). "Afford" means you can achieve your quantified net worth goal at a defined numerical age.

If you don't have a quantified net worth goal at a defined numerical age, do that first. Then buy the vehicle if you are convinced you can meet your goal
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by madbrain »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm The costs I currently cannot justify is insurance and personal property tax and fees as I am in Virginia.
Have you accounted for maintenance costs as well ? Those will not be cheap on expensive vehicles.
How often would you use the camper ? It might make more sense to rent than buy, if you will only use it a few weeks a year. Save yourself the taxes, maintenance and depreciation costs.
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Josh5000
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Josh5000 »

02nz wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:56 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:12 pm
Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm
I want either a sport car or most likely a road warrior truck camper setup as reward. My finance puts in the the upper 5% of Americans or roughly lower average for a boglehead. I can handle the purchase cost in cash and after much research I can also justify such as. The costs I currently cannot justify is insurance and personal property tax and fees as I am in Virginia.
Josh5000,

Either you can afford or justify the purchase and ongoing maintenance cost or you can't. My retired friend just sold off his RV. He can no longer justify spending 2K per month on his RV.

KlangFool
+1. It's a bit like saying "I can justify the cost of three of the four wheels but not the fourth." It's all part of the cost of ownership.
You won’t ever understand unless you are in the same situation and with same mindset. Not being able to justify the personal property tax and fees is a reason I haven’t made a purchase. And your example makes no sense.

The cost of a product is something you pay for and that is a business transaction. A personal property tax and associated fees costing thousands per year are just taxes and not business transactions because you get nothing back in return. I already pay a lot of taxes and work from home so I am using much less services than someone of much lower tax bracket. This is why many of my neighbors and associates have out-of-state plates and their residence here isn’t their primary. This is a very high income and above average income taxes region. The DMV area has various jurisdictions and each has certain taxes that are very high. For example, certain parts of MD have extremely high real estate taxes. Yes, that is plural because residents pay real estate taxes at multiple levels but they have no personal property taxes so it is normal to see a Maryland tag in my Fairfax neighborhood.
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Josh5000
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Josh5000 »

madbrain wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 9:10 pm
Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm The costs I currently cannot justify is insurance and personal property tax and fees as I am in Virginia.
Have you accounted for maintenance costs as well ? Those will not be cheap on expensive vehicles.
How often would you use the camper ? It might make more sense to rent than buy, if you will only use it a few weeks a year. Save yourself the taxes, maintenance and depreciation costs.
Yes, I ran as much numbers as I can and the only numbers I can’t justify are personal property taxes on the F350, which may have to be registered as commercial vehicle, and even much higher tax rate on the camper top. I spoke with insurance company and the premium will be for personal use but the premium may be higher if the state requires it to be registered as commercial vehicle. Many F350’s are registered as commercial vehicles because people claim them as business write-off from house cleaning, lawn care, plumbing, to many jobs in between. It is a racket around here.

As far as maintenance, it is actually a piece of cake for gas engine vehicles. I do most maintenances on my vehicles now and a truck is even easier to maintain as it sits higher. We’re looking at $400-$500 per year total if tires, brakes, and a personal escrow is set aside in case things like engine and transmission go. My Honda costs about $200 each to maintain if I include tires, brakes, and some maintenances I cant do but oil and filter run less than $30 per year and transmission fluid is $50 per 2-3 years. This would cost the same or less for the truck as it would be used a lot less but I’ll call them the same since the cost per incident is higher whether it is fluid amount or tire cost.

So I can easily handle and justify the purchase cost, insurance, and maintenance. It’ll be parked at the house so there is no slip cost. I also have access to free campsites and nice spots from VA/MD to Key West and out west past Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. Fuel cost is not a big deal as it is not a daily. I can also handle the taxes and fees but I can’t yet justify the cost because I use my former commuter vehicle (2012 Fit) to do a lot of the same things now. I’ll just get to do it in much greater comfort with a camper truck. And your prediction is correct, the taxes and fees easily exceed the annual cost of simple lodging. And that is my main reason for not bring able to justify it. The truck will be used for one purpose only as I am not going to take the camper off and out it on every weekend; it must be ready to go at any moment I desire.

I have no plan to get a used truck simply because there is much saving and there is a risk it was was used to tow very heavy RV and not properly cared for. I personally wouldn’t buy any of my friends’ truck knowing that they tow very heavy rig and none of them ever heard about ATF service.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by MH2 »

Rules of thumb for vehicles.

Total value of all vehicles should be no more than 50% of your income.

Total monthly transportation attributable expenses should be less than 10-15% of your monthly income.

Pay cash or same as cash one year financing.

Some of the rules can be relaxed from time to time - e.g., if you are retired and have a high net worth.

If you hit these, it’s no longer a personal finance question, it’s a consumption question.
MH2
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by MH2 »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:40 pm All,

There seems to be some confusion between being able to afford it versus justification for the costs. I can easily afford and, after much research, justify the purchase cost. I just can’t seem to justify the recurrent cost such as insurance and personal property taxes (Virginia car tax is very high and even higher for RV and camper.)

Including a package of a new F350 and a new truck camper, I am looking at a total of under $100k. Personal property taxes will be high, possible over $2k annually. My little 13 years Honda Fit still cost several hundreds dollars in personal property taxes annually and about $400 annual for insurance at the estimate value of $3k. I can’t imagine what a $100k personal property asset would cost in taxes and insurance. Then there is registration fees, which isn’t cheap for F350. This is why I am not even looking at Class B van that starts around $200k or RV camper, which would require two separate registration, higher personal property taxes in the RV camper versus a truck camper top, and even much higher required versus optional insurance on the RV camper.

Financially, I am not as concern about running out of money now versus having to pay too much taxes even when I draw pension, SS or SS gap annuity until 62, 401k, Roth, brokerage account, and at least two more streams of income. I am not wealthy by any mean but has been a great saver. For comfortable living, I really only need my pension as the house is paid off recently.

I think the best bet maybe to go rent a setup to see if I am cut out for it. I have a trip to Canada coming up, it maybe a good opportunity for see if this would fit me.

Another reason for looking at truck camper setup is that I would likely be driving the truck 2 days per week without the camper or use the whole truck camper setup every weekend. I am in the 4th quarter of my career and will need to start winding down to 4-day work week like my colleague who travels every weekend and own 3 RV campers, two truck rigs, and 3 full service RV lots.

And yes, I can park this at my house as a whole package but not as two separate units due to incline; I bought a house on the hill on the edge of town like they sang about in country songs.
It comes down to whether the cost of the truck and camper fits your financial situation (see my other post).

If you can actually afford it, you don’t need validation from a personal finance forum to buy it.

Toys don’t make financial sense, and that’s OK.

That said, you can buy an older A4 Allroad and a wrap around roof tent for one tenth of the price of your setup. Much easier and more convenient to go camping with.
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snackdog
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by snackdog »

Since your income is on the top 5% ($335k/yr and up), you can easily afford a toy. Get something delightful and spoil yourself and don't try to justify the cost. Don't compromise - make it really wonderful and enjoy it! Consider the tax and insurance costs part of the fun.

Pickup and turtle shell camper on the bed is sort of a 70's camper solution. These days it makes more sense to get a small B or B+ rig especially since you will have no use for the truck without the camper. The LTV Unity is a great unit, made in Canada.

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YeahBuddy
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by YeahBuddy »

That's two very different avenues. Sounds like you don't want to or can't justify the purchase. How about a cheaper sports car? You don't need to spend $100k to get into something quick and fun. Also, $2k/year doesn't seem too bad when you're talking a $100k vehicle. Cheers.
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StevieG72
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by StevieG72 »

Fellow Virginian here, I can relate to the personal property tax pain. I own a boat and get 3 different tax bills for boat, motor, and trailer.

You are going to feel pain at the gas pump too.

I would suggest renting for awhile to see if the juice is worth the squeeze.
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GatorMD
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by GatorMD »

London wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:47 pm If you can afford it and still hit your other financial goals, go ahead. Only ask a “should I buy it” question on this forum if you want to be told not to do it. If you have your act together, spending money is ok. Especially on things that will make you happy.
This. Can you write a check for it? Will it affect your overall financial goals? Will it bring you joy? If your answers are yes, no, yes - do it. I just wrote a ~$90k check for an F150 Raptor. No regrets.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by toomanysidehustles »

Josh5000 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 1:37 am
02nz wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:56 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 4:12 pm
Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm
My finance puts in the the upper 5% of Americans or roughly lower average for a boglehead. I can handle the purchase cost in cash and after much research I can also justify such as. The costs I currently cannot justify is insurance and personal property tax and fees as I am in Virginia.
Josh5000,

Either you can afford or justify the purchase and ongoing maintenance cost or you can't. My retired friend just sold off his RV. He can no longer justify spending 2K per month on his RV.

KlangFool
+1. It's a bit like saying "I can justify the cost of three of the four wheels but not the fourth." It's all part of the cost of ownership.
The cost of a product is something you pay for and that is a business transaction. A personal property tax and associated fees costing thousands per year are just taxes and not business transactions because you get nothing back in return. I already pay a lot of taxes and work from home so I am using much less services than someone of much lower tax bracket. This is why many of my neighbors and associates have out-of-state plates and their residence here isn’t their primary. This is a very high income and above average income taxes region.
Why not play the same game as some of your neighbors then? What about registering in another state?

We live in Colorado, and I've been noticing a lot of South Dakota plates recently - to the point where my wife and i are researching moving our vehicle registration to out of state. We have 7 vehicles, an RV and a boat...so you can imagine our registration/tax/insurance costs. We are high income small business owners (and take advantage of full tax writeoff opportunities) so that at least helps and is in our favor.

https://www.creditkarma.com/auto/i/whic ... pplication.

"You can’t register your car in a different state from where you live to avoid higher registration rates or insurance fees. But some states allow nonresident vehicle registrations if you have a legitimate reason for doing so." (You just need to figure out the legitimate and legal reason for doing so)
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TimeIsYourFriend
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by TimeIsYourFriend »

If you are going to ask a forum if they think you should get an expensive vehicle, you need to supply way more info. Your income is not enough. For all we know, you haven't saved enough for retirement based on your spending needs.
"Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy." - John C. Bogle
123
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by 123 »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm ...The truck camper would motivate me to be on the roads more and improve quality of life and health so that is a long term investment aspect of it...
Many times acquiring things for aspirational purposes, things you want to do, doesn't work out in practice. Exercise equipment often becomes a coat rack. Try a couple of your aspirational adventures with a rented vehicle, to see if your interest endures, but also to see what vehicle/camper features are important to you so you can buy one that fits your purpose. Of course one aspirational purpose might just be as a driveway decoration, so be it.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Valuethinker
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Valuethinker »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 5:17 pm My only problem is framing a vehicle purchase as a “reward.” We have spent six digit amounts on vehicles, but would never refer to it as a reward. Good luck.
Presses my buttons, because I had a friend when I was first working, still a bit in touch (he now lives in Midwest USA) who always had trouble with saving and investing money. Really productive and smart guy, always a top performer at work. But money ...

He "deserved" a car. His first car (working car jockey at a hotel after he dropped out of engineering) was a Lada or as he put it, ruefully, "not a car".
He graduated with student debt (having been living on milk & baked beans, because he had run out of money in his last 2 terms of university).

But as soon as he could take the car loan, he bought himself a car. Even though he was living 2 minutes from the subway (he had moved to a nicer apartment). Still hadn't paid off his student loan. I had to explain to him about repaying highest interest rate loan first, but he still went and repaid a whole loan balance which was at a lower rate (I think the student loan).

I don't know what he drives now, but I always worry his retirement money has gone out down his exhaust pipe. (I don't think so, but I don't know).
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Valuethinker »

123 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 8:34 am
Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm ...The truck camper would motivate me to be on the roads more and improve quality of life and health so that is a long term investment aspect of it...
Many times acquiring things for aspirational purposes, things you want to do, doesn't work out in practice. Exercise equipment often becomes a coat rack. Try a couple of your aspirational adventures with a rented vehicle, to see if your interest endures, but also to see what vehicle/camper features are important to you so you can buy one that fits your purpose. Of course one aspirational purpose might just be as a driveway decoration, so be it.
Good advice. You don't need a great vehicle to have a great camping experience.
stan1
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by stan1 »

If you are on track with your financial goals then its fine to purchase some things you will enjoy, but I'd make sure you get full utilization from it and not buy something you aspire to do. I would not view it as a "reward" in the way that a dog is given a treat if they sit and stay, but rather as a logical decision to spend money on improving your quality of life. If you can't afford it, then don't do it. Being financially independent (or well on the way for your age and personal situation) does not mean living in austerity for the rest of our lives. Rather, financial independence lets us make smart decisions and enjoy life at its fullest without worry.
syc
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by syc »

Josh5000 wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 1:37 am The cost of a product is something you pay for and that is a business transaction. A personal property tax and associated fees costing thousands per year are just taxes and not business transactions because you get nothing back in return.
You get the right and ability to use that personal property legally.
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just frank
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by just frank »

Huh. I might not be a very good Boglehead, but I think OP is fine to ask if he works for the money, or the money works for him.

In the end, we all have to LIVE. We can't take it with us.

A truck camper seems like a reasonable 'guy toy'. I don't have one, but I have friends who also dream about them. It is the onshore equivalent fantasy to sailing a sailboat around the Caribbean or other ocean.

We don't need to 'rationalize' our toys and splurges based upon health factors or whatnot. I recall the Rolex Thread! :D

If OP can afford a camper truck... he/she can go for it.

If i wanted to be responsible, I would say the following... before you buy one, plan out a few trips that you would actually take with one. And when you might take them. If this planning step is fun and exciting and easy... then go for it. If these plans, when made, seem less appealing then keep looking for planned uses before you buy.

To be less responsible, i would say that if in a future point you don't use the camper for XXX years... then you will sell it. And the cost is only the difference in purchase and resale price.
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Josh5000
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Josh5000 »

just frank wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:34 am Huh. I might not be a very good Boglehead, but I think OP is fine to ask if he works for the money, or the money works for him.

In the end, we all have to LIVE. We can't take it with us.

A truck camper seems like a reasonable 'guy toy'. I don't have one, but I have friends who also dream about them. It is the onshore equivalent fantasy to sailing a sailboat around the Caribbean or other ocean.

We don't need to 'rationalize' our toys and splurges based upon health factors or whatnot. I recall the Rolex Thread! :D

If OP can afford a camper truck... he/she can go for it.

If i wanted to be responsible, I would say the following... before you buy one, plan out a few trips that you would actually take with one. And when you might take them. If this planning step is fun and exciting and easy... then go for it. If these plans, when made, seem less appealing then keep looking for planned uses before you buy.

To be less responsible, i would say that if in a future point you don't use the camper for XXX years... then you will sell it. And the cost is only the difference in purchase and resale price.
The last 2 camper trips I took were to Key West and OBX. I did the Key West trip with a small groups and they all had RV, campers, Class-B, etc. I did the trip in my Honda Fit and just used their vehicles' facilities and shared their campsite access. The OBX trip was solo and I setup my Fit to be able to sleep in. I enjoyed both trips equally but the comfort an RV or camper was undeniable. If I was constantly going to the same place, I would just get a guy national gym membership (Black Card member) and pick the destination as home base.

The OBX trip would have been much better if it was with a truck camper as I could have driven on the beach. To replicate even a portion of the convenience and comfort of a truck camper, I would have to rent an equivalent for about $300-$500 per day depending on seasons. Even a jeep rental costed $250 per day before fees when I did it in 2023. I can't imagine what a beach ready Class-B or truck camper would cost per day.

Again, I only get hung up on the annual personal property taxes and fees costing probably over $3k, based on what my friend pays for his Dodge Cummins 3500 and a $6k pop-op camper for 2.

One alternative is to rent truck camper and small Class-C (Class-B is way too expensive and not even part of purchase equation) the next year and do a 15-years cost analysis. A truck camper is one dimensional and that is what I call it a toy since it won't be used for home improvement runs or any other purpose people use truck for. It will be a land yacht and a much cheaper traveler alternative.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by fyre4ce »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:27 pm A reward for exactly what?

Do you intend to punish yourself when the opposite happens?
If so, how would you do that? Buying an overpriced 10 year-old Porsche with known issues?
:mrgreen:
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by humblecoder »

Obviously, you provided no financial information on whether or not you can afford this purchase, other than saying that you can. So assuming that we take your word on face value, you can afford it :-)

All kidding aside, it sounds like you are asking the board for "permission" to spend this money.

Clearly this is a luxury spend. Nobody NEEDS a sports car or a camper truck. But if this purchase brings you happiness and joy, and you can otherwise afford it, then go for it.

We only live once. The purpose of working hard, earning money, saving money, is so that you can enjoy it down the road in some way, shape, or form. If your other needs are taken care of, then you are free to spend your remaining money on your wants, whatever they may be. The only rationalization that you need is that you can't take it with you.

Don't be that person who is 85, in assisting living, sitting on more money than they will ever need, regretting that you didn't use that money to enjoy life when they had the health to do so. Spend it on what gives you joy while you still able to.
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Josh5000
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Josh5000 »

humblecoder wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:20 pm Obviously, you provided no financial information on whether or not you can afford this purchase, other than saying that you can. So assuming that we take your word on face value, you can afford it :-)

All kidding aside, it sounds like you are asking the board for "permission" to spend this money.

Clearly this is a luxury spend. Nobody NEEDS a sports car or a camper truck. But if this purchase brings you happiness and joy, and you can otherwise afford it, then go for it.

We only live once. The purpose of working hard, earning money, saving money, is so that you can enjoy it down the road in some way, shape, or form. If your other needs are taken care of, then you are free to spend your remaining money on your wants, whatever they may be. The only rationalization that you need is that you can't take it with you.

Don't be that person who is 85, in assisting living, sitting on more money than they will ever need, regretting that you didn't use that money to enjoy life when they had the health to do so. Spend it on what gives you joy while you still able to.
Definitely not asking permission unless approving officials write checks for it. Fortunately, I'd be paying cash unless I can get a loan under 3% thanks for not having a car payment in 11 years and 10 years before the 18 months it took to pay off my new car purchased in 2012.

This is more of a sounding board exercise to see if wiser persons can hint at shortcomings or if I can detect how frivolous the purchase would be by writing it out. If only this is practiced by the masses, no one would be in debt to their eye-ball or buy used car and have credit card balance at +25% rate.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Bobby206 »

Think about it for another year and if you still want it then buy it.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by humblecoder »

Josh5000 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:28 pm
humblecoder wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 4:20 pm Obviously, you provided no financial information on whether or not you can afford this purchase, other than saying that you can. So assuming that we take your word on face value, you can afford it :-)

All kidding aside, it sounds like you are asking the board for "permission" to spend this money.

Clearly this is a luxury spend. Nobody NEEDS a sports car or a camper truck. But if this purchase brings you happiness and joy, and you can otherwise afford it, then go for it.

We only live once. The purpose of working hard, earning money, saving money, is so that you can enjoy it down the road in some way, shape, or form. If your other needs are taken care of, then you are free to spend your remaining money on your wants, whatever they may be. The only rationalization that you need is that you can't take it with you.

Don't be that person who is 85, in assisting living, sitting on more money than they will ever need, regretting that you didn't use that money to enjoy life when they had the health to do so. Spend it on what gives you joy while you still able to.
Definitely not asking permission unless approving officials write checks for it. Fortunately, I'd be paying cash unless I can get a loan under 3% thanks for not having a car payment in 11 years and 10 years before the 18 months it took to pay off my new car purchased in 2012.

This is more of a sounding board exercise to see if wiser persons can hint at shortcomings or if I can detect how frivolous the purchase would be by writing it out. If only this is practiced by the masses, no one would be in debt to their eye-ball or buy used car and have credit card balance at +25% rate.
Obviously, you don't need my permission. It's your money :-).

Yes, it is a frivolous purchase. That is obvious. However, just because something is a frivolous purchase doesn't mean that it is a waste of money. There is no prize for the richest person in the graveyard. And regret is one of the worst emotions in that it cannot be undone.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by tibbitts »

Josh5000 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:40 pm ...upper 5% of Americans or roughly lower average for a boglehead.
I don't think you meant to say this but yes, upper 5% is maybe below average for a Boglehead (not me, though.)
The truck camper would motivate me to be on the roads more and improve quality of life and health so that is a long term investment aspect of it. I can definitely afford it due to being frugal and keep current vehicle purchases to the minimum and driving the same two vehicles over the period of 23 years; one is 2002 and another is '12 with plenty of life left.

The road warrior purchase would save on hotel cost and afford me to do things I really want.
You can't buy any kind of mostly-functional RV in hopes of saving money unless maybe you only camp in the driveway. It's a lifestyle choice and if you want it that's fine, but you have to pay for it. Now if you say you're picking up a rusty '72 Ford Camper Special that needs a transmission with a camper that's leaked so much you can twist the walls like a washcloth and water comes out... go for it.
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by rockstar »

I’d rent and try one out to see if you like the lifestyle. A lot of people tried campers during the pandemic, and a lot got rid of them too. You could probably find a lot of used deals now.

How big are you thinking since you mentioned a F-350, which is a huge truck?

I’d think you want to try something smaller to begin with and then scale up as you figure it out.
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just frank
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by just frank »

Josh5000 wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:57 pm
just frank wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:34 am Huh. I might not be a very good Boglehead, but I think OP is fine to ask if he works for the money, or the money works for him.

In the end, we all have to LIVE. We can't take it with us.

A truck camper seems like a reasonable 'guy toy'. I don't have one, but I have friends who also dream about them. It is the onshore equivalent fantasy to sailing a sailboat around the Caribbean or other ocean.

We don't need to 'rationalize' our toys and splurges based upon health factors or whatnot. I recall the Rolex Thread! :D

If OP can afford a camper truck... he/she can go for it.

If i wanted to be responsible, I would say the following... before you buy one, plan out a few trips that you would actually take with one. And when you might take them. If this planning step is fun and exciting and easy... then go for it. If these plans, when made, seem less appealing then keep looking for planned uses before you buy.

To be less responsible, i would say that if in a future point you don't use the camper for XXX years... then you will sell it. And the cost is only the difference in purchase and resale price.
The last 2 camper trips I took were to Key West and OBX. I did the Key West trip with a small groups and they all had RV, campers, Class-B, etc. I did the trip in my Honda Fit and just used their vehicles' facilities and shared their campsite access. The OBX trip was solo and I setup my Fit to be able to sleep in. I enjoyed both trips equally but the comfort an RV or camper was undeniable. If I was constantly going to the same place, I would just get a guy national gym membership (Black Card member) and pick the destination as home base.

The OBX trip would have been much better if it was with a truck camper as I could have driven on the beach. To replicate even a portion of the convenience and comfort of a truck camper, I would have to rent an equivalent for about $300-$500 per day depending on seasons. Even a jeep rental costed $250 per day before fees when I did it in 2023. I can't imagine what a beach ready Class-B or truck camper would cost per day.

Again, I only get hung up on the annual personal property taxes and fees costing probably over $3k, based on what my friend pays for his Dodge Cummins 3500 and a $6k pop-op camper for 2.

One alternative is to rent truck camper and small Class-C (Class-B is way too expensive and not even part of purchase equation) the next year and do a 15-years cost analysis. A truck camper is one dimensional and that is what I call it a toy since it won't be used for home improvement runs or any other purpose people use truck for. It will be a land yacht and a much cheaper traveler alternative.
If you have car camped in a Fit, more than once, you have earned the right to a bigger vehicle for camping purposes. 8-)
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Josh5000
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Re: Buying a toy vehicle as reward

Post by Josh5000 »

If you have car camped in a Fit, more than once, you have earned the right to a bigger vehicle for camping purposes.
It wasn't bad at all actually. It would have been nicer if it was a Prius V with a solar panel to be able to run electronics, light, and maybe a fan at night. I just couldn't justify the $300 per night hotel cost and my Fit provided better piece of mind than a motel costing under $125. The 5-day stay at destination would be more than exceed the cost of a set of rims and tires, which I bought upon return. Another trip where I camped in my Fit was 10 days and I bought a tool chest and filled it up with tools. To me, expensive lodging is not justifiable especially when I go solo. My employer has plenty properties across the country so I can go in and use the faculties. When I am on the roads, I want to be out and about and not stuck in hotel. Of course, I am not doing that with family so the truck camper is an option.
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