HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

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vtMaps
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HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by vtMaps »

In 2023 we did some QCD, and also a trustee to trustee non-reportable IRA transfer that got reported as a rollover. Rather than fight with the custodians about the 1099-R which is wrong, I have decided to just live with it because I don't plan to do another rollover within a year.

So line 4a is larger than line 4b. To explain the discrepancy, I think you are supposed to write "QCD" or "Rollover" on line 4b. HR Block has written "see attached" on line 4b. When I print the forms I don't see any attachment that explains about the QCD and Rollover.

Has anyone encountered this?

--vtMaps
"Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" --Voltaire, as translated by Norman Lewis Torrey
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

vtMaps wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:52 am In 2023 we did some QCD, and also a trustee to trustee non-reportable IRA transfer that got reported as a rollover. Rather than fight with the custodians about the 1099-R which is wrong, I have decided to just live with it because I don't plan to do another rollover within a year.

So line 4a is larger than line 4b. To explain the discrepancy, I think you are supposed to write "QCD" or "Rollover" on line 4b. HR Block has written "see attached" on line 4b. When I print the forms I don't see any attachment that explains about the QCD and Rollover.

Has anyone encountered this?

--vtMaps
1. When you're talking about a rollover, do you mean a Roth conversion? Because a rollover doesn't in and of itself cause a taxable event. If you roll over from a tax deferred to another tax deferred, there's no tax owed. What's the distribution code on line 7 of your 1099-R?

2. when you're talking about 4a and 4b i'm assuming you're talking about the 1040, not the 1099-R?

That being said, it's fine that 4a is larger than 4b because you want the distribution (4a) to be larger than the taxable amount of the distribution (4b) if some of the distribution is not to be taxable (in the case of a QCD).

So is the difference between what's on 4a and 4b accounted for by the QCD?

If so, that's fine. It's more concerning when the 1099-R says "taxable amount not determined" on line 2b. Even then, you are indicating the amount of the distribution that's taxable if it's not on the 1099-R. Your documentation of your QCD is proof that not 100% of the distribution should be taxable. Do you have proof of your QCD (from the charity)?

does that help at all?
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vtMaps
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by vtMaps »

The distribution code is "G". It was in fact a trustee to trustee transfer and there should be no 1099-R. It's not worth fighting with TIAA to get them to withdraw the 1099. Also, Fidelity has coded it as a rollover contribution to my Fidelity IRA. As long as I do not do another rollover within a year, it should not matter.

So therefore the difference between line 4a and 4b is the sum of the "rollover" and the QCD. Why can't HR Block write "rollover" and "QCD" next to line 4b? It says "see attached" next to line 4b and I can't find any attachment to the tax return that HR Block prints.

--vtMaps
"Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" --Voltaire, as translated by Norman Lewis Torrey
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Morgan22
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by Morgan22 »

Something doesn't sound right, I believe a rollover would go on line 5a on your 1040, and Rollover would be input next to 5b. There should be nothing in 5b for a taxable amount.

Make sure you are entering in your 1099 correctly into your tax software. Line 4a and 4b are related to distributions. If there are dollars in 4b then you will be taxed on it.

I don't have any experience with QCDs, only have done rollovers the past couple years to consolidate and that's what I'm seeing on my 1040's.

I have also done distributions for spending from IRA's and 457b plan. I see those amount in 4b and 5b and have been taxed on them accordingly.
toddthebod
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by toddthebod »

Morgan22 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:24 pm Something doesn't sound right, I believe a rollover would go on line 5a on your 1040, and Rollover would be input next to 5b. There should be nothing in 5b for a taxable amount.

Make sure you are entering in your 1099 correctly into your tax software. Line 4a and 4b are related to distributions. If there are dollars in 4b then you will be taxed on it.

I don't have any experience with QCDs, only have done rollovers the past couple years to consolidate and that's what I'm seeing on my 1040's.

I have also done distributions for spending from IRA's and 457b plan. I see those amount in 4b and 5b and have been taxed on them accordingly.
Grossly simplifyng, lIne 4 is for IRAs, line 5 for 401(k)s.
Backtests without cash flows are meaningless. Returns without dividends are lies.
toddthebod
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by toddthebod »

vtMaps wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:01 pm The distribution code is "G". It was in fact a trustee to trustee transfer and there should be no 1099-R. It's not worth fighting with TIAA to get them to withdraw the 1099. Also, Fidelity has coded it as a rollover contribution to my Fidelity IRA. As long as I do not do another rollover within a year, it should not matter.

So therefore the difference between line 4a and 4b is the sum of the "rollover" and the QCD. Why can't HR Block write "rollover" and "QCD" next to line 4b? It says "see attached" next to line 4b and I can't find any attachment to the tax return that HR Block prints.

--vtMaps
If TIAA and Fidelity both think it's a rollover, why do you think it's not? Was it an ACATS transfer, or did they mail a check made out to Fidelity?
Backtests without cash flows are meaningless. Returns without dividends are lies.
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vtMaps
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by vtMaps »

toddthebod wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:59 pm If TIAA and Fidelity both think it's a rollover, why do you think it's not? Was it an ACATS transfer, or did they mail a check made out to Fidelity?
A check was mailed from TIAA to Fidelity. It was, in fact, a trustee to trustee transfer. But TIAA gave it a code G on line 7 of the 1099. Therefore, as far as the IRS is concerned, it is a direct rollover.

No tax was withheld and no tax will be owed.

--vtMaps
"Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" --Voltaire, as translated by Norman Lewis Torrey
Alan S.
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by Alan S. »

vtMaps wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:52 am In 2023 we did some QCD, and also a trustee to trustee non-reportable IRA transfer that got reported as a rollover. Rather than fight with the custodians about the 1099-R which is wrong, I have decided to just live with it because I don't plan to do another rollover within a year.

So line 4a is larger than line 4b. To explain the discrepancy, I think you are supposed to write "QCD" or "Rollover" on line 4b. HR Block has written "see attached" on line 4b. When I print the forms I don't see any attachment that explains about the QCD and Rollover.

Has anyone encountered this?

--vtMaps
Having both a rollover and a QCD in the same year is not that unusual. Decent tax programs should handle it OK with or without an explanatory statement. "See attached" suggests that a statement has been included, but perhaps you need to call HRB to find how you can see the statement to make sure it is correct. Are the amounts on 4a and 4b correct?
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vtMaps
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by vtMaps »

Alan S. wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:57 pm Having both a rollover and a QCD in the same year is not that unusual. Decent tax programs should handle it OK with or without an explanatory statement. "See attached" suggests that a statement has been included, but perhaps you need to call HRB to find how you can see the statement to make sure it is correct. Are the amounts on 4a and 4b correct?
The amounts are correct. I do not eFile. When I print my tax return from HR Block, there is no attached statement. I think there is room for me to write both "rollover" and "QCD" on line 4b, or I could make my own attached statement.

--vtMaps
"Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" --Voltaire, as translated by Norman Lewis Torrey
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

vtMaps wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:01 pm The distribution code is "G". It was in fact a trustee to trustee transfer and there should be no 1099-R. It's not worth fighting with TIAA to get them to withdraw the 1099. Also, Fidelity has coded it as a rollover contribution to my Fidelity IRA. As long as I do not do another rollover within a year, it should not matter.

So therefore the difference between line 4a and 4b is the sum of the "rollover" and the QCD. Why can't HR Block write "rollover" and "QCD" next to line 4b? It says "see attached" next to line 4b and I can't find any attachment to the tax return that HR Block prints.

--vtMaps
you say line 4a and 4b, that's your 1040 which is generated from the 1099-R. So in order to determine if things are right or wrong on the 1040...

what is listed on box 1 and 2 on the 1099-R?

And is 2b (both taxable amount not determined and total distribution) checked or unchecked on the actual 1099-R?
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
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vtMaps
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by vtMaps »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:41 pm what is listed on box 1 and 2 on the 1099-R?

And is 2b (both taxable amount not determined and total distribution) checked or unchecked on the actual 1099-R?
Box 1 is the amount of the "rollover". Box 2 is $0.00
Box 2b is not checked.

--vtMaps
"Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" --Voltaire, as translated by Norman Lewis Torrey
FactualFran
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by FactualFran »

vtMaps wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:01 pm The distribution code is "G". It was in fact a trustee to trustee transfer and there should be no 1099-R. It's not worth fighting with TIAA to get them to withdraw the 1099. Also, Fidelity has coded it as a rollover contribution to my Fidelity IRA. As long as I do not do another rollover within a year, it should not matter.

So therefore the difference between line 4a and 4b is the sum of the "rollover" and the QCD. Why can't HR Block write "rollover" and "QCD" next to line 4b? It says "see attached" next to line 4b and I can't find any attachment to the tax return that HR Block prints.
A distribution with code G on a 1099-R is not included in the 1-year waiting period required between rollovers. A distribution with code 7 (normal distribution), where assets from an IRA were made payable to you, rather than an IRA custodian for benefit of you and those assets were contributed as a rollover to an IRA, is included in the 1-year waiting period between rollovers. The distribution code on the 1099-R is much more important than what is on a statement from an IRA custodian.

The instructions for lines 4a and 4b of Form 1040 includes:
If more than one exception applies, include a statement showing the amount of each exception, instead of making an entry next to line 4b. For example: “Line 4b – $1,000 Rollover and $500 HFD.”
The income tax preparation program is doing what the IRS wants. The fact that a printed return does not include the statement should be reported as an error to HR Block.
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vtMaps
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by vtMaps »

FactualFran wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:02 pm The fact that a printed return does not include the statement should be reported as an error to HR Block.
Understood.
I've never attached a statement to a tax return. If HR Block doesn't fix this, is there some format that I should use to make my own statement? (obviously the statement would have my SS# along with the amount of the QCD and the rollover).
FactualFran wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:02 pm A distribution with code G on a 1099-R is not included in the 1-year waiting period required between rollovers
Where did you find that? My impression (from IRS instructions, and another thread) was that plan rollovers were unlimited but IRA to IRA rollovers (direct or indirect) were limited to 1 per year. I think the problem is that the IRS considers an IRA trustee to IRA trustee transfer as non reportable. But if it does get reported then it is subject to the 1 year waiting period.

--vtMaps
"Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" --Voltaire, as translated by Norman Lewis Torrey
toddthebod
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by toddthebod »

vtMaps wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:16 am Where did you find that? My impression (from IRS instructions, and another thread) was that plan rollovers were unlimited but IRA to IRA rollovers (direct or indirect) were limited to 1 per year. I think the problem is that the IRS considers an IRA trustee to IRA trustee transfer as non reportable. But if it does get reported then it is subject to the 1 year waiting period.

--vtMaps
IRC 408(d)(3)(B):
(B)Limitation
This paragraph does not apply to any amount described in subparagraph (A)(i) received by an individual from an individual retirement account or individual retirement annuity if at any time during the 1-year period ending on the day of such receipt such individual received any other amount described in that subparagraph from an individual retirement account or an individual retirement annuity which was not includible in his gross income because of the application of this paragraph.
Backtests without cash flows are meaningless. Returns without dividends are lies.
FactualFran
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by FactualFran »

vtMaps wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:16 am
FactualFran wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:02 pm The fact that a printed return does not include the statement should be reported as an error to HR Block.
Understood.
I've never attached a statement to a tax return. If HR Block doesn't fix this, is there some format that I should use to make my own statement? (obviously the statement would have my SS# along with the amount of the QCD and the rollover).
FactualFran wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:02 pm A distribution with code G on a 1099-R is not included in the 1-year waiting period required between rollovers
Where did you find that? My impression (from IRS instructions, and another thread) was that plan rollovers were unlimited but IRA to IRA rollovers (direct or indirect) were limited to 1 per year. I think the problem is that the IRS considers an IRA trustee to IRA trustee transfer as non reportable. But if it does get reported then it is subject to the 1 year waiting period.
I don't know whether there is a standard format for statements attached to an income tax return.

The Trustee-to-Trustee Transfer section of IRS Publication 590-A (Contributions to Individual Retirement Arrangements (IRAs)) includes:
A transfer of funds in your traditional IRA from one trustee directly to another, either at your request or at the trustee's request, isn’t a rollover. This includes the situation where the current trustee issues a check to the new trustee but gives it to you to deposit. Because there is no distribution to you, the transfer is tax free. Because it isn’t a rollover, it isn’t affected by the 1-year waiting period required be-tween rollovers.
I don't know of any statement by the IRS that indicates that a 1099-R is not issued for an IRA trustee to IRA trustee transfer.
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vtMaps
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by vtMaps »

FactualFran wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:26 am I don't know of any statement by the IRS that indicates that a 1099-R is not issued for an IRA trustee to IRA trustee transfer.
I don't care what the IRS says, I believe what Alan S. says in this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=7487087#p7487087
if a 1099R is issued there is a reportable distribution and exposure to the one rollover limit.
--vtMaps
"Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" --Voltaire, as translated by Norman Lewis Torrey
Mjl714
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by Mjl714 »

Vtmaps,

I’m seeing the exact same result, and like you I have a QCD and a rollover. The rollover was reported by Fido as a gross distribution. HRB indicates “see attached.” Does anyone know if it is possible to add an attachment when efiling with HRB? Ican make an explanatory statement.
toddthebod
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by toddthebod »

Can you attach your own statement?

Nis, did this end up working?
nisiprius wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:04 pm OK. Just reporting what happened. I was able to reach H&R Block support via the chat method. The representative asked me if it was a home or business return. I replied "Home." This is what she replied:

Image
  1. Navigate through the File tab.
  2. At the E-file Your Return page, hit the "Send" button.
  3. A dialog box which says "YOUR RETURN WILL NOW BE TRANSMITTED TO THE
    IRS" will appear. Click "OK."
  4. On the screen labeled "YOUR PDF ATTACHMENTS," click "ATTACH."
  5. Navigate to the file you need to attach and click "Open" to attach the file.
  6. After the PDF is attached, click "Finished" and the return will be transmitted to the
    IRS.
Should I believe it?
Backtests without cash flows are meaningless. Returns without dividends are lies.
Mjl714
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by Mjl714 »

Alan S. wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 8:57 pm
vtMaps wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:52 am In 2023 we did some QCD, and also a trustee to trustee non-reportable IRA transfer that got reported as a rollover. Rather than fight with the custodians about the 1099-R which is wrong, I have decided to just live with it because I don't plan to do another rollover within a year.

So line 4a is larger than line 4b. To explain the discrepancy, I think you are supposed to write "QCD" or "Rollover" on line 4b. HR Block has written "see attached" on line 4b. When I print the forms I don't see any attachment that explains about the QCD and Rollover.

Has anyone encountered this?

--vtMaps
Having both a rollover and a QCD in the same year is not that unusual. Decent tax programs should handle it OK with or without an explanatory statement. "See attached" suggests that a statement has been included, but perhaps you need to call HRB to find how you can see the statement to make sure it is correct. Are the amounts on 4a and 4b correct?
I have both a QCD and rollover within 60 days of distribution and HRB indicates that I cannot efile due to more than one IRA “exception.”
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vtMaps
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by vtMaps »

Mjl714 wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 5:42 pm I have both a QCD and rollover within 60 days of distribution and HRB indicates that I cannot efile due to more than one IRA “exception.”
So if you paper file, does HR Block print out the attachment? --vtMaps
"Truly, whoever can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" --Voltaire, as translated by Norman Lewis Torrey
Mjl714
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Re: HR Block line 4b 'See attached'

Post by Mjl714 »

Nope, I’ve created my own attachment, but when I tried to efile HRB said I could not due to the required attachment. Very frustrating.
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