Is my company doing something illegal?

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tman9940
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Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by tman9940 »

We recently had a new time system installed at work. UKG it is called. We had to swipe outrage badge then scan our fingerprint to clock in and out.We work 8 hours and 15 minute shifts. We can clock in 3 minutes before tour start time (I start at 11am so I clock in at 1057) so therefore I can clock out at 712. Sometimes I run a few minutes later…and don’t clock out till 720…722…something like that. They won’t pay us if we go over the time limit (sometimes customers grab us as we are walking to the time clock). In order to get overtime. They have the clock set up to not pay us that until we clock out after 727. Why can’t they pay us for actual minutes worked? They do everything in 15 minute increments. We also have to clock out for our lunch, as we don’t get paid for it. We have noticed if we clock back in from lunch one minute late, they dock us 15 minutes worth of pay. How is that legal? They should dock us one minute worth of pay, not 15. If this happens everyday, to multiple employees, the company is getting away with a lot of money. They were already sued in the past for this issue . We thought with the new system, everything would be accounted for up to the minute.
scifilover
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by scifilover »

Employment law, like all other legal areas, is complex and differs from state to state. Your state Bar Assoc will have a referral program under which you can be directed to a local lawyer in the specialty you need. Often there is an introductory no cost meeting available.
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leeks
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by leeks »

I would be looking at your skills and options for additional training/education to figure out what better job you will have next. Although it is certainly your right to demand better treatment from the current employer, I think you will benefit more if you invest your energy toward finding a new employer.
student
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by student »

tman9940 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:07 am They were already sued in the past for this issue .
What's the result of the lawsuit?
Topic Author
tman9940
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by tman9940 »

student wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:26 am
tman9940 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:07 am They were already sued in the past for this issue .
What's the result of the lawsuit?
If I remember correctly, they admitted no wrongdoing but settled and we were all paid a few hundred bucks.
mkbkxepq
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by mkbkxepq »

leeks wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:26 am I would be looking at your skills and options for additional training/education to figure out what better job you will have next.

Coming out of school with a Masters Degree in the health care field I had a clock in/out system like this. The entire facility used this system from those with a high school diploma to others with more education than I did.

Our system was based on the "8 minute rule". Clocking in at 7:52 would back the time to 7:45. In at 7:53 would move forward to 8:00.

Clock out at 3:37 and the time was 3:30. Clock out at 3:38 and it went to 3:45.

I would always clock out at :08, :23, :38, :53 thus gaining 7 minutes. The clock in it would be random, but I would never actually lose time per day.

I do NOT miss that job.
student
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by student »

tman9940 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:32 am
student wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:26 am
tman9940 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:07 am They were already sued in the past for this issue .
What's the result of the lawsuit?
If I remember correctly, they admitted no wrongdoing but settled and we were all paid a few hundred bucks.
Maybe you can contact those who filed the suit last time for additional information. Based on what you said, it was a civil suit, so likely it is not against the law.
student
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by student »

mkbkxepq wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:56 am
leeks wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:26 am I would be looking at your skills and options for additional training/education to figure out what better job you will have next.

Coming out of school with a Masters Degree in the health care field I had a clock in/out system like this. The entire facility used this system from those with a high school diploma to others with more education than I did.

Our system was based on the "8 minute rule". Clocking in at 7:52 would back the time to 7:45. In at 7:53 would move forward to 8:00.

Clock out at 3:37 and the time was 3:30. Clock out at 3:38 and it went to 3:45.

I would always clock out at :08, :23, :38, :53 thus gaining 7 minutes. The clock in it would be random, but I would never actually lose time per day.

I do NOT miss that job.
Yes. Use the system to your advantage.
muddgirl
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by muddgirl »

They can round the timeclock to the nearest 15 minute interval. :01-:07 rounds down, 0:08-:14 rounds up, and so on. Is that what they are doing?

You seemed to imply that you had to clock out in full 15 minute intervals of *work* though, that wouldn't be allowed.
Last edited by muddgirl on Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tman9940
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by tman9940 »

mkbkxepq wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:56 am
leeks wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:26 am I would be looking at your skills and options for additional training/education to figure out what better job you will have next.

Coming out of school with a Masters Degree in the health care field I had a clock in/out system like this. The entire facility used this system from those with a high school diploma to others with more education than I did.

Our system was based on the "8 minute rule". Clocking in at 7:52 would back the time to 7:45. In at 7:53 would move forward to 8:00.

Clock out at 3:37 and the time was 3:30. Clock out at 3:38 and it went to 3:45.

I would always clock out at :08, :23, :38, :53 thus gaining 7 minutes. The clock in it would be random, but I would never actually lose time per day.

I do NOT miss that job.
It’s kind of like that with my job…but they make stay on the floor assisting customers until 10 after and then expect us to clock out by 715. It’s ridiculous.
toddthebod
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by toddthebod »

They are allowed to round time clock entries, not hours worked. They can disregard early and late clockings as long as you are not working during those few minutes. The rounding needs to be set up such that it averages out over time to be neutral or in the employee's favor.

Cite: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/s ... 785#785.48
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nedsaid
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by nedsaid »

I know that in the Healthcare industry that slight overclocking is a problem worth millions of dollars. Clock in a bit early each day and a bit late and things really add up. It seems like the company is being cheap but you add up all those little bits of time and they add up to a lot for a very large organization. This is something that has been worked on for years but has never been solved to my knowledge.
A fool and his money are good for business.
Jeepergeo
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by Jeepergeo »

Is walking in the door and punching the clock considered starting work?
mkbkxepq
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by mkbkxepq »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:35 am I know that in the Healthcare industry that slight overclocking is a problem worth millions of dollars. Clock in a bit early each day and a bit late and things really add up. It seems like the company is being cheap but you add up all those little bits of time and they add up to a lot for a very large organization. This is something that has been worked on for years but has never been solved to my knowledge.


Within the nursing field, this cannot be helped for many positions in hospitals, skilled nursing facilities etc. The nurse coming on shift needs to meet with the nurse leaving, get a report of the patients discuss treatments.

How long does this take? 5 minutes? 15 minutes? More? No one in administration can define that.

Standardized computer records have helped convey information, but face to face discussion of patients should not be rushed.
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nedsaid
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by nedsaid »

mkbkxepq wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:44 am
nedsaid wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 9:35 am I know that in the Healthcare industry that slight overclocking is a problem worth millions of dollars. Clock in a bit early each day and a bit late and things really add up. It seems like the company is being cheap but you add up all those little bits of time and they add up to a lot for a very large organization. This is something that has been worked on for years but has never been solved to my knowledge.


Within the nursing field, this cannot be helped for many positions in hospitals, skilled nursing facilities etc. The nurse coming on shift needs to meet with the nurse leaving, get a report of the patients discuss treatments.

How long does this take? 5 minutes? 15 minutes? More? No one in administration can define that.

Standardized computer records have helped convey information, but face to face discussion of patients should not be rushed.
Yep. I used to sit next to the office for our internal consultant and this was one of the issues our healthcare system was grappling with. I don't think this will ever be solved.
A fool and his money are good for business.
littlebird
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by littlebird »

Google “(your state) labor department”. It may have a different name in your state, but you should be able to find it, and they should be able to answer your questions.
123
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by 123 »

tman9940 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:32 am
student wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:26 am
tman9940 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:07 am They were already sued in the past for this issue .
What's the result of the lawsuit?
If I remember correctly, they admitted no wrongdoing but settled and we were all paid a few hundred bucks.
It might be time to rinse and repeat...
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teen persuasion
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by teen persuasion »

Decades ago I worked for a craft store and had to clock in. Employer did not want us to clock in more than 2 or 3 minutes early, just enough for everyone to quickly clock in before opening, and it was clear we would not get paid for those minutes.

At closing, nearly everyone was expected to clock out as close to closing time as possible, again would not be paid for any extra minutes - except for the day's floor managers and *one* cashier as they rapidly cashed out drawers and ran register reports. Managers would receive pay for that extra 10-15 minutes, and the closing cashier would, too - their time cards got initialed to tell whoever did payroll to not round down, pay actual time. I know this because I was regularly tapped to be the closing cashier, as I was fast and accurate.

Employer was a stickler for following the letter of the law, even when it was inconvenient. State law says employees must have a half hour break if they work 6 hours. On Sundays the store was open exactly 6 hours. So on Sundays only, half the staff came in at opening time and left 15 minutes before closing, while the other half started 15 minutes later and worked to closing. All so no one reached 6 hours that day.
Turkey Lurkey
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by Turkey Lurkey »

As student suggested, check with those involved in the earlier law suit. Also (and I hope this won’t get us into politics), are you and your co-workers unionized?
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Re: Is my company doing something illegal?

Post by oldcomputerguy »

This topic is locked. The OP's question as asked (whether the employer's pay scheme is legal) is concerned with aspects of labor law, which is off-topic for the forum. See: Acceptable Topics
This is an investing and personal finance forum. We also maintain a subforum that allow our members to discuss consumer goods and services and recreational activities. Anything else is considered "Off Topic" and is not acceptable on this forum.
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