Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Mom has middle stage Alzheimer’s and moved into assisted living. She owns her house (no mortgage) in Ohio— none of her kids live anywhere nearby. Kids have power of attorney and PoA has been filed at county recorder’s. Mom is ready to sell her house, value approx $150,000 if in good condition (which it’s not). Her other assists are around $200,000 plus she gets social security which is $1,000 less than her current assisted living (costs will skyrocket if/when she eventually transitions to memory care).
My first instinct is we need a realtor because we all live far away. However, there are two neighbors who are seriously interested in buying the house for their family members. If we wanted to sell to one of the neighbors, would it make more sense to not use a realtor? How would that work exactly? I think we’d need a real estate lawyer but also not sure how the other logistics would work in terms of a title company, etc. Mom’s location also has a mandatory local inspection presale to check for code violations.
Just seeking some info on how this would work without a realtor and if that would be a terrible idea. There is one neighbor in particular that everyone including Mom would like to buy the house, so we’d like to try to make that happen while still respecting our fiduciary duty to Mom— seems like cutting out the realtor commission could help with that. But we’re also all busy with our own families and aren’t nearby. Thanks!
My first instinct is we need a realtor because we all live far away. However, there are two neighbors who are seriously interested in buying the house for their family members. If we wanted to sell to one of the neighbors, would it make more sense to not use a realtor? How would that work exactly? I think we’d need a real estate lawyer but also not sure how the other logistics would work in terms of a title company, etc. Mom’s location also has a mandatory local inspection presale to check for code violations.
Just seeking some info on how this would work without a realtor and if that would be a terrible idea. There is one neighbor in particular that everyone including Mom would like to buy the house, so we’d like to try to make that happen while still respecting our fiduciary duty to Mom— seems like cutting out the realtor commission could help with that. But we’re also all busy with our own families and aren’t nearby. Thanks!
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
to op:Fernweh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:34 am Mom has middle stage Alzheimer’s and moved into assisted living. She owns her house (no mortgage) in Ohio— none of her kids live anywhere nearby. Kids have power of attorney and PoA has been filed at county recorder’s. Mom is ready to sell her house, value approx $150,000 if in good condition (which it’s not). Her other assists are around $200,000 plus she gets social security which is $1,000 less than her current assisted living (costs will skyrocket if/when she eventually transitions to memory care).
My first instinct is we need a realtor because we all live far away. However, there are two neighbors who are seriously interested in buying the house for their family members. If we wanted to sell to one of the neighbors, would it make more sense to not use a realtor? How would that work exactly? I think we’d need a real estate lawyer but also not sure how the other logistics would work in terms of a title company, etc. Mom’s location also has a mandatory local inspection presale to check for code violations.
Just seeking some info on how this would work without a realtor and if that would be a terrible idea. There is one neighbor in particular that everyone including Mom would like to buy the house, so we’d like to try to make that happen while still respecting our fiduciary duty to Mom— seems like cutting out the realtor commission could help with that. But we’re also all busy with our own families and aren’t nearby. Thanks!
Given you information given and situation...it might be a best idea (for you..not for others..or for everyone) to engage the services of a very reputable and respected large R/E Brokerage in your area. Why? Because rather than a single person "realtor/sales person", they bring to bear all of their resources to help you. THere is a senior/principal broker and associate brokers (with that higher level of licensing) and also other R/E Sales/Agents licensed to sell your home. Especially as you are not "there" and your family are "distant owners". This is a good thing to do.
If you tried to do everything you could by yourself by selling the home via FSBO, etc, then you might be blamed for missing things that need to be attended to or not getting the most value on the sale, etc.
So, best to delegate to the professionals.
However, if you reach out to the neighbor and they are indeed "seriously interested with cash in hand or financing at the ready, right now" and not just "talk", then you can agree on a price, then have a local "title company/escrow company do all of your paperwork and handle the money".
However, know that this can also turn into a "nickel and dime money pit", etc, so...even if the neighbor is interested, still have a local large presence brokerage company take care of everything. These arrangements sometimes start out great but do not end well. Pay the commission. It will be worth it.
j

Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
I talked to three realtors to get an idea of the value of the house. I was upfront and said I planned to FSBO to a neighbor. Realtors were fine with it because they know most FSBOs give up and go with a realtor. We did go through with the FSBO and used a title company. I was selling a rental from 1000 miles away and all worked out fine. The title companies do the closing an make sure nothing is missed. I don't think you'd get a whole lot of Realtor attention for a house at that value, but that's a guess.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
The broker’s job is to find a buyer. You’ve already found one. Might a broker find someone else who would pay enough higher a price so that you would net more?
The buyer’s lawyer will arrange for the title insurance if the buyer wants it (or the borrower takes out a mortgage loan and the lender requires it).
The buyer’s lawyer will arrange for the title insurance if the buyer wants it (or the borrower takes out a mortgage loan and the lender requires it).
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Sandtrap has a great point. Using a real estate brokerage would have a disinterested party that could price and sell the house.
Less conflict in future Thanksgivings when your siblings argue that "you sold Mom's house for less than it was worth to Earl the neighbor"
Less conflict in future Thanksgivings when your siblings argue that "you sold Mom's house for less than it was worth to Earl the neighbor"
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
We sold my parents' house to a developer. The price was over $100K more than it would have been had we sold elsewhere. A neighbor was interested, but when he came to look it over, he quickly started making a list of "this needs to be fixed, that needs to be replaced, etc." When someone you know wants to buy your house, it's quite possible that they expect to get a bargain.
A realtor opens up more possibilities. Once they use the listing service, your house gets a ton of exposure. Also, if you talk to more than one agent, you can sometimes get a little competition going where one will reduce his fee if you go with him.
A realtor opens up more possibilities. Once they use the listing service, your house gets a ton of exposure. Also, if you talk to more than one agent, you can sometimes get a little competition going where one will reduce his fee if you go with him.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
If family members or you are concerned not listing it with an agent may result in not getting full value since it’s not in MLS - I would list it with agent and contractually agree with agent to exempt the buyers you have already identified from paying agent commission since you found them. See what offers you get / Let market forces set value for house; pick the offer that is best for you.
I would imagine an agent would agree to this for the chance to sell the house and get a possible commission. I have gotten individuals exempted in listing agent agreements before as the potential buyers were on the fence at listing time.
I would imagine an agent would agree to this for the chance to sell the house and get a possible commission. I have gotten individuals exempted in listing agent agreements before as the potential buyers were on the fence at listing time.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
It depends how much you care about:
1) Maximizing the amount of money you get for the house
2) Minimizing hassle
For #1, you could get an independent appraisal and use a lawyer/title company (depending on laws/practices in that area), but that won't seem to save much money over an agent for a house of that price. It also doesn't help with #2.
Seems like an agent would help with #2, especially because you're remote.
Maybe the the way to #1 and #2 is negotiating a lower commission with an agent since you are bringing a buyer. Also assuming the buyer doesn't have an agent, they won't have to split the commission.
By the way, I'm generally a "real estate agents don't add much value" person, but in this case I would almost certainly use one.
1) Maximizing the amount of money you get for the house
2) Minimizing hassle
For #1, you could get an independent appraisal and use a lawyer/title company (depending on laws/practices in that area), but that won't seem to save much money over an agent for a house of that price. It also doesn't help with #2.
Seems like an agent would help with #2, especially because you're remote.
Maybe the the way to #1 and #2 is negotiating a lower commission with an agent since you are bringing a buyer. Also assuming the buyer doesn't have an agent, they won't have to split the commission.
By the way, I'm generally a "real estate agents don't add much value" person, but in this case I would almost certainly use one.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
I've bought and sold a house by owner in NC and SC. If I was remote I would have used a realtor. Too much room for hassle when the unexpected arises.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
For those of you recommending a realtor/broker would you still be recommending one if the house was worth $500,000? $1,000,000? I only ask because the total commission for the transaction to this third party that (in my experience) often does almost nothing for the exuberant cost isn't doing anything beyond what a small fee to an attorney couldn't perform if you've already got a buyer with a fair price. I get the whole "you could have sold mom's house for more," argument, but during times of high emotion this sort of thing may be unavoidable no matter what path is taken.
Last edited by Soobs on Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:42 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
???Rocky Mtn Man wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:29 am Sandtrap has a great point. Using a real estate brokerage would have a disinterested party that could price and sell the house.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." H.G. Wells
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
OP here. I appreciate the responses. My priority is minimizing hassle followed by maximizing Mom’s money, so I’m the one that wanted to just hire a realtor. Siblings’ priority is selling the house to someone they feel good about. There’s a lot of emotion involved with all of us because of the Alzheimer’s piece and it’s hard to navigate this in a way that everyone feels good about.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
If you aren't properly exposing the home to the market with full broker marketing campaign, then you will need to retain your own appraiser, selected and paid for by the seller side to advise you on market value. Property appraisal is not science, as an appraisal is an opinion of value, and 3 appraisers can provide 3 different opinions. You obviously want your appraiser to appraise it high. Your buyer might or might not agree with your seller's appraisal. Your buyer might retain their own appraiser who has lower opinion of value. You would have to reconcile those different appraisals some way.
Typically since the buyer makes the purchase offer, the buyer side originates the purchase offer contract. That gives the buyer the first advantage to write into the contract terms that are favorable to the buyer side. If you don't have your own seller's broker to review that offer contract for you the seller, you should retain real estate attorney to advise you what is in the contract, and make revisions to give you the terms and protections for your mother.
You mentioned something about buyer inspection. If a buyer inspection identifies some defects, the buyer can try to demand a reduced purchase price to cover the cost of buyer repairs. You aren't required to make any seller concessions. There is no way for you the seller to verify, after the close of sale, if the buyer has performed the repairs or is actually OK with the property in "as is" condition. If the home isn't new construction, there will always be some deferred maintenance issues. You aren't obligated to replace the roof, for example, but the buyer might want to get that inspected before closing sale so there aren't any surprises later.
Typically since the buyer makes the purchase offer, the buyer side originates the purchase offer contract. That gives the buyer the first advantage to write into the contract terms that are favorable to the buyer side. If you don't have your own seller's broker to review that offer contract for you the seller, you should retain real estate attorney to advise you what is in the contract, and make revisions to give you the terms and protections for your mother.
You mentioned something about buyer inspection. If a buyer inspection identifies some defects, the buyer can try to demand a reduced purchase price to cover the cost of buyer repairs. You aren't required to make any seller concessions. There is no way for you the seller to verify, after the close of sale, if the buyer has performed the repairs or is actually OK with the property in "as is" condition. If the home isn't new construction, there will always be some deferred maintenance issues. You aren't obligated to replace the roof, for example, but the buyer might want to get that inspected before closing sale so there aren't any surprises later.
Last edited by smooth_rough on Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
If there is a 5 year Medicaid look back when /if her memory care costs skyrocket could it cause an issue if home sold in private sale? I don't know the answer but that is a question I would want to ask
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
I would hire an agent, but I would pre-negotiate a lower commission if it sells to the interested parties you've already identified.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Fernweh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:34 am Mom has middle stage Alzheimer’s and moved into assisted living. She owns her house (no mortgage) in Ohio— none of her kids live anywhere nearby. Kids have power of attorney and PoA has been filed at county recorder’s. Mom is ready to sell her house, value approx $150,000 if in good condition (which it’s not). Her other assists are around $200,000 plus she gets social security which is $1,000 less than her current assisted living (costs will skyrocket if/when she eventually transitions to memory care).
My first instinct is we need a realtor because we all live far away. However, there are two neighbors who are seriously interested in buying the house for their family members. If we wanted to sell to one of the neighbors, would it make more sense to not use a realtor? How would that work exactly? I think we’d need a real estate lawyer but also not sure how the other logistics would work in terms of a title company, etc. Mom’s location also has a mandatory local inspection presale to check for code violations.
Just seeking some info on how this would work without a realtor and if that would be a terrible idea. There is one neighbor in particular that everyone including Mom would like to buy the house, so we’d like to try to make that happen while still respecting our fiduciary duty to Mom— seems like cutting out the realtor commission could help with that. But we’re also all busy with our own families and aren’t nearby. Thanks!
For the two neighbors that might be interested, you can add exclusions to the listing contract and make the exclusion no commission if sold to one of those two people.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
It's up to each party whether he/she wants to get an appraisal.smooth_rough wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:02 am If you aren't properly exposing the home to the market with full broker marketing campaign, then you will need to retain your own appraiser, selected and paid for by the seller side to advise you on market value. Property appraisal is not science, as an appraisal is an opinion of value, and 3 appraisers can provide 3 different opinions. You obviously want your appraiser to appraise it high. Your buyer might or might not agree with your seller's appraisal. Your buyer might retain their own appraiser who has lower opinion of value. You would have to reconcile those different appraisals some way.
Typically since the buyer makes the purchase offer, the buyer side originates the purchase offer contract. That gives the buyer the first advantage to write into the contract terms that are favorable to the buyer side. If you don't have your own seller's broker to review that offer contract for you the seller, you should retain real estate attorney to advise you what is in the contract, and make revisions to give you the terms and protections for your mother.
...
The procedures for the contract vary from place to place. In the NYC area, the seller's lawyer prepares the first draft, though as a practical matter it's the buyer who's more concerned about what it says. It's done differently in other places.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Since the family member with Power of Attorney is selling for mother with dementia, wouldn't the seller side want to get their own appraisal for their paper file for estate reasons?bsteiner wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:48 amIt's up to each party whether he/she wants to get an appraisal.smooth_rough wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:02 am If you aren't properly exposing the home to the market with full broker marketing campaign, then you will need to retain your own appraiser, selected and paid for by the seller side to advise you on market value. Property appraisal is not science, as an appraisal is an opinion of value, and 3 appraisers can provide 3 different opinions. You obviously want your appraiser to appraise it high. Your buyer might or might not agree with your seller's appraisal. Your buyer might retain their own appraiser who has lower opinion of value. You would have to reconcile those different appraisals some way.
Typically since the buyer makes the purchase offer, the buyer side originates the purchase offer contract. That gives the buyer the first advantage to write into the contract terms that are favorable to the buyer side. If you don't have your own seller's broker to review that offer contract for you the seller, you should retain real estate attorney to advise you what is in the contract, and make revisions to give you the terms and protections for your mother.
...
The procedures for the contract vary from place to place. In the NYC area, the seller's lawyer prepares the first draft, though as a practical matter it's the buyer who's more concerned about what it says. It's done differently in other places.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Long time realtor- agree with this:
- you need someone on the ground to arrange and facilitate the municipal inspections
- realtor will be better able to provide market data, and subjective evaluation to provide an accurate sale price- despite readily available sales histories, a competent realtor will better understand any local trends that may affect real value as the « data » only goes so far.
- since you’re remote, unless the report contains readily fixable items that the realtor can easily ( and Inexpensively ) rectify, note you’re selling the property as-is, with buyer responsible for securing a « clear certificate of occupancy « realtor will know/ should know how to work that and have it entered into the agreement .
- with a realtor, your presence is not required. Any docs requiring original signature ( typically deed, owner affidavit, etc) can be sent via fed ex ( or like) completed, and proceeds wired. With a good realtor, you’ll be provided disclosures prior to settle to ensure all $’s are accounted for, which prior to settle you’ll sign off on.
- if you go it alone, though it can certainly be figured out, you’ll most likely be required to be on site once if not several times to arrange municipal inspections, perhaps meet an attorney hired ( which in many states can be avoided altogether ) etc.
- since you noted everyone would « like » to see neighbor buy, and if indeed the property is not ultimately listed, I’d negotiate a 2-3% (max) commission to the agent ( could vary depending on what state you’re in but certainly in the ballpark)
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
I've bought two homes without a realtor or lawyer involved. Great experience both times and I would do so again.Fernweh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:40 am My priority is minimizing hassle followed by maximizing Mom’s money, so I’m the one that wanted to just hire a realtor. Siblings’ priority is selling the house to someone they feel good about. There’s a lot of emotion involved with all of us because of the Alzheimer’s piece and it’s hard to navigate this in a way that everyone feels good about.
But it sounds like above, you really have a personal issue with your siblings. If I were in your shoes, I would probably rationalize that the increase in selling price you might have gotten by getting a realtor/lawyer involved would probably have been more than offset by the fees involved. Even if that isn't the case, the difference isn't worth family disharmony as a sensitive time. If I were in the minority, I would go with the majority and let them sell it to the neighbor without the realtor involved and move onto more important things, like care for my mother to make her last years as comfortable as possible.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Here in Ohio all home title transfer information is public knowledge, so there is really no such thing as a private sale. The real issue with Medicaid is to make sure that all of the proceeds from the house sale are placed in an account under your mother's name so it doesn't turn into a gift to someone else.
Addendum: I have a 96 year old mother in Memory Care Assisted Living whose Ohio house I sold last year using the realtor suggested by our Estate Lawyer. The problems were with the "not in good condition" issues. The home was listed at $225k but was sold for cash at $203K. The flipper stripped it down to the studs, redid the entire interior, all new appliances, furnace, air conditioning, and hot water tank. It was then resold for $335k.
Last edited by KlingKlang on Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
If the house is sold below fair value, it seems to me that the difference is a gift and would be subject to Medicaid lookback.
To avoid this there should be an appraisal or at least a competitive analysis.
The idea that doing a sweetheart deal with no realtor will result more money...is speculative.
To avoid this there should be an appraisal or at least a competitive analysis.
The idea that doing a sweetheart deal with no realtor will result more money...is speculative.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
I dont know how desirable the location is, but if you think people may bid for it you may be better off paying the 6% that a realtor charges in order to get plenty of bids. If this is a location where you can be happy if anyone wants to buy this at all, maybe doing this just with a real estate attorney is the better choice. Ultimately I think it depends on how certain are you about the price.Fernweh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:34 am Mom has middle stage Alzheimer’s and moved into assisted living. She owns her house (no mortgage) in Ohio— none of her kids live anywhere nearby. Kids have power of attorney and PoA has been filed at county recorder’s. Mom is ready to sell her house, value approx $150,000 if in good condition (which it’s not). Her other assists are around $200,000 plus she gets social security which is $1,000 less than her current assisted living (costs will skyrocket if/when she eventually transitions to memory care).
My first instinct is we need a realtor because we all live far away. However, there are two neighbors who are seriously interested in buying the house for their family members. If we wanted to sell to one of the neighbors, would it make more sense to not use a realtor? How would that work exactly? I think we’d need a real estate lawyer but also not sure how the other logistics would work in terms of a title company, etc. Mom’s location also has a mandatory local inspection presale to check for code violations.
Just seeking some info on how this would work without a realtor and if that would be a terrible idea. There is one neighbor in particular that everyone including Mom would like to buy the house, so we’d like to try to make that happen while still respecting our fiduciary duty to Mom— seems like cutting out the realtor commission could help with that. But we’re also all busy with our own families and aren’t nearby. Thanks!
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Sorry to hear about your situation. A key consideration is what the house can actually be sold for in the current condition so it would be good to talk to several real estate agents about the local housing market. As long as you do not sign a contract you are under no obligation to use them. They are in sales and part of their sales job to convince you that you should use them. A real estate agent who lives clost buy may be more able to drop by the house to let people like inspectors or contractors in to do any required repairs.
One possible solution would be to write up a real estate listing agreement with a real estate agent where they get paid a reduced commission if either of the neighbors you know about who are interested in the house actually end up buying the house. Instead of a split 6% commission, maybe a 3% commission with 0% going to the neighbors buyers real estate agent since they do not have one.
Be sure to figure out how to winterize the house in freezing weather if that is likely where the house is at. Even if you leave the heat on the power could go out after an ice storm and the pipes could freeze and break. You might want to have a plumber drain the water pipes and turn the water off.
Also figure out what the monthly cost of the house is. You will still need insurance, utilities, lawn care, and there can be normal maintenance costs like if a water heater or HVAC system which is working now develops a problem. There can also be Murphy's Law situations like storm damage or a tree falling on the house. Prorate the property taxes, for example if the property taxes are $1,200 a year then it costs $100 a month in property taxes to keep the house. If the house can be sold for $120K then that money could be invested in a CD at 5% and earn $6,000 a year which would equivalent to another $500 a month in lost interest income.
After my mother in law passed away I was surprised at how much it can cost each month to keep a paid off house. I would not be surprised if the house costs close to $1,000 a month to keep empty when you include the lost interest.
Depending on your state laws and the rest of the details if your mom passes away before the house can be sold then that could delay the sale of the house for a long time and every month would add to the carrying costs so selling the house fast could make sense.
One problem you may have is that if the house is likely to sell fro $125K then you may have a hard time finding a GOOD real estate agent to handle the sale of it since once they split a 6% commission with the buyers real estate agent there is not enough money in the deal to make it worth spending much time on the sale of the house. Often the will be split four ways between your agent, the broker who owns the real estate office they work at, the buyers agent, and their broker. Your real estate agent may be looking at getting maybe $2,000 in commission before their expenses which is not a lot of incentive to do a lot of work on the sale of the house.
A real estate agent will also be concerned about if all your paperwork is right to sell the house or if your Mom might pass away before the sale closes so that they could do a lot of work and end up not getting any commission.
You also need to figure out what to do with your Mom's stuff if it is still in the house since even if you are selling it "as is" you will still need to get that stuff out of the house and make sure that there is not anything important that you need to get out of the house. Get started on this ASAP. Once you get any family mementoes and obvious valuables out of the house then most likely the contents do not have a lot of value. When we were clearing out my parents house we had the rest of the contents sold in what is called a "private auction". The way this worked was that an estate sale company had a list of dealers who came in and bid on the contents of each room then they had to take ALL the stuff and leave the room broom clean. I was not there for that but my impression was that the actual auction took well less than an hour and by the end of the day the house was empty and ready for a cleaning crew to come in. After the estate sale companies fees that cleared a modest amount but it got the house cleared out and ready to sell quickly. If you have ever seen the TV show Storage Wars where dealers buy abandoned storage units it is something like that. A real estate agent may be able to help you find companies that do this.
You also need to consider the local housing market. Some housing markets are trending downward so selling it sooner than later would be good. In some housing markets selling a house in the winter time can also be very difficult.
Yet another consideration is inflation. If inflation is 4% and it take 6 months to sell the house then you have lost 2% of the selling price.
If you do not have a real estate agent handle the sale at a reduced commission the way I would handle this would be to talk to that neighbor and see if you can verbally agree on a price for the house in "as is" condition and the general terms. If you can agree on a price then they should pay a real estate lawyer to write up an offer to give you along with some proof that they can pay for it. This should include a non-trivial amount of earnest money that they will forfeit if they back out of the deal.
Even if the selling price is not the top dollar saving on the commission and carrying costs may still make it a good deal.
You would then hire a real estate lawyer to review their lawyers contract and make any suggested changes for them to sign off on.
The lawyers can then walk you through the local closing process.
The legal fees should not be very high since this is all routine legal work. You can likely call around and even find a law office which will have a set fee for the legal work to sell a house.
In some areas the state laws may allow a non-lawyer at a title company to do the paperwork for less but I would be cautious about doing that. The problem is that there may be lots of required disclosures which need to be done but the title company may miss those and that can come back and cause a problem in the future. With your mom's condition a lot of the disclosure paperwork may just be check boxes saying "don't know" but that can still be important to do.
One possible solution would be to write up a real estate listing agreement with a real estate agent where they get paid a reduced commission if either of the neighbors you know about who are interested in the house actually end up buying the house. Instead of a split 6% commission, maybe a 3% commission with 0% going to the neighbors buyers real estate agent since they do not have one.
You should check on the home insurance policy to see if it has limitation on coverage after the house has been vacant for 30 or 60 days. That is not uncommon because a vacant house is more likely to be subject to vandalism or something like a small water leak can become a big problem when it goes on for several weeks with no one noticing. Some insurance companies will just want a modest additional fee for a rider to cover this while other companies will not be will not be willing to cover the house.
Be sure to figure out how to winterize the house in freezing weather if that is likely where the house is at. Even if you leave the heat on the power could go out after an ice storm and the pipes could freeze and break. You might want to have a plumber drain the water pipes and turn the water off.
Also figure out what the monthly cost of the house is. You will still need insurance, utilities, lawn care, and there can be normal maintenance costs like if a water heater or HVAC system which is working now develops a problem. There can also be Murphy's Law situations like storm damage or a tree falling on the house. Prorate the property taxes, for example if the property taxes are $1,200 a year then it costs $100 a month in property taxes to keep the house. If the house can be sold for $120K then that money could be invested in a CD at 5% and earn $6,000 a year which would equivalent to another $500 a month in lost interest income.
After my mother in law passed away I was surprised at how much it can cost each month to keep a paid off house. I would not be surprised if the house costs close to $1,000 a month to keep empty when you include the lost interest.
Depending on your state laws and the rest of the details if your mom passes away before the house can be sold then that could delay the sale of the house for a long time and every month would add to the carrying costs so selling the house fast could make sense.
One problem you may have is that if the house is likely to sell fro $125K then you may have a hard time finding a GOOD real estate agent to handle the sale of it since once they split a 6% commission with the buyers real estate agent there is not enough money in the deal to make it worth spending much time on the sale of the house. Often the will be split four ways between your agent, the broker who owns the real estate office they work at, the buyers agent, and their broker. Your real estate agent may be looking at getting maybe $2,000 in commission before their expenses which is not a lot of incentive to do a lot of work on the sale of the house.
A real estate agent will also be concerned about if all your paperwork is right to sell the house or if your Mom might pass away before the sale closes so that they could do a lot of work and end up not getting any commission.
You also need to figure out what to do with your Mom's stuff if it is still in the house since even if you are selling it "as is" you will still need to get that stuff out of the house and make sure that there is not anything important that you need to get out of the house. Get started on this ASAP. Once you get any family mementoes and obvious valuables out of the house then most likely the contents do not have a lot of value. When we were clearing out my parents house we had the rest of the contents sold in what is called a "private auction". The way this worked was that an estate sale company had a list of dealers who came in and bid on the contents of each room then they had to take ALL the stuff and leave the room broom clean. I was not there for that but my impression was that the actual auction took well less than an hour and by the end of the day the house was empty and ready for a cleaning crew to come in. After the estate sale companies fees that cleared a modest amount but it got the house cleared out and ready to sell quickly. If you have ever seen the TV show Storage Wars where dealers buy abandoned storage units it is something like that. A real estate agent may be able to help you find companies that do this.
You also need to consider the local housing market. Some housing markets are trending downward so selling it sooner than later would be good. In some housing markets selling a house in the winter time can also be very difficult.
Yet another consideration is inflation. If inflation is 4% and it take 6 months to sell the house then you have lost 2% of the selling price.
The first thing I would do would to have a real estate lawyer review your power of attorney paperwork to make sure that it is in order to actually sell the house. This can be tricky depending on the state laws since selling real estate is sometimes a special case when it comes to using a POA to sell it. Be honest but careful about telling the lawyer about your Mom's condition, people often say that someone has Alzheimer's when there is not a formal medical diagnosis of Alzheimer's which can be very difficult to formally diagnose and in some situations the formal diagnosis can make a difference. Ask her doctor what her condition should legally be called and if Alzheimer's is the right term for her condition.Fernweh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:34 am Just seeking some info on how this would work without a realtor and if that would be a terrible idea. There is one neighbor in particular that everyone including Mom would like to buy the house, so we’d like to try to make that happen while still respecting our fiduciary duty to Mom...
If you do not have a real estate agent handle the sale at a reduced commission the way I would handle this would be to talk to that neighbor and see if you can verbally agree on a price for the house in "as is" condition and the general terms. If you can agree on a price then they should pay a real estate lawyer to write up an offer to give you along with some proof that they can pay for it. This should include a non-trivial amount of earnest money that they will forfeit if they back out of the deal.
Even if the selling price is not the top dollar saving on the commission and carrying costs may still make it a good deal.
You would then hire a real estate lawyer to review their lawyers contract and make any suggested changes for them to sign off on.
The lawyers can then walk you through the local closing process.
The legal fees should not be very high since this is all routine legal work. You can likely call around and even find a law office which will have a set fee for the legal work to sell a house.
In some areas the state laws may allow a non-lawyer at a title company to do the paperwork for less but I would be cautious about doing that. The problem is that there may be lots of required disclosures which need to be done but the title company may miss those and that can come back and cause a problem in the future. With your mom's condition a lot of the disclosure paperwork may just be check boxes saying "don't know" but that can still be important to do.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
IANAL and don't know Ohio specifically but if it is truly a sale to a non-related party for actual market price, I can't see why state medicaid would care how it was sold. If no agent was used it would leave more $ for the pre-medicaid care.
To OP, if you want to sell direct to neighbor (or their family) and they are not using an agent either, then you should be able to FSBO, save your mother some $ and also the neighbor (w/o some REASONABLE discount, why would neighbor not use an agent).
You will still have costs of sale but should be less than if realtor is used. My concern is your pricing. You say the house needs some attention. I would bet that you and these buyers are unlikely to reached an agreed price w/o this attention and once you put attention $ into the house, you likely want to get highest price you can (which they won't want to pay). IME, these neighbor deals seldom work out in general. But that doesn't mean you can't try.
As others have said, you can get these identified buyers exempted from the listing. But again, you likely want to move quick with the identified buyers so you can initiate the repairs listing agent may "require" to properly market the house.
I would not have a problem doing a FSBO of a house where I was close but I would not want to do so if not near. Plus, what are you going to really save? Say you save the $9K realtor fees but still have $3K in closing costs (pure SWAG) you made $6K but so what. In X years/months you mother enters memory care (I know where you are. My father passed from Alz) and the $ quickly depletes and she goes onto medicaid funded care. So you don't see any of this $ anyway.
Even if that doesn't happen, is the hassle worth $2K (assuming 3 kids)?
IMO, if you can't sell as is to the identified buyer in the next X days in a cash deal with a very cheap and fast closing, I would not bother in your situation.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
I skimmed the responses. I didn't see anything that stated how you have-- or will-- establish the selling price. There have been lots of suggestions on how to go about that, suggestions on excluding the interested parties from commission, etc. Can you get a realtor sales contract that gives neighbors right to match/top any bids? Would the neighbors still be interested if you did list it? What if you did list with a realtor and the suggested sales price was $10K above what you had been negotiating with the neighbors?
Lots of moving pieces here and lots of ideas and scenarios. I come down on the side of professionals and negotiated or no commission if you bring the buyers.
Lots of moving pieces here and lots of ideas and scenarios. I come down on the side of professionals and negotiated or no commission if you bring the buyers.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
6% of the good condition price (150k) is $9k in commission, for a professional to oversee this transaction for you and take care of everything they reasonably can.
That sounds like a great deal to me, given the circumstances.
Don’t underestimate the amount of work that goes into closing the transaction itself, once a buyer and price have been agreed to. Appraisal, maybe a loan, dealing with docs and title companies and whatnot.
That sounds like a great deal to me, given the circumstances.
Don’t underestimate the amount of work that goes into closing the transaction itself, once a buyer and price have been agreed to. Appraisal, maybe a loan, dealing with docs and title companies and whatnot.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
I'm sorry you're having to go through this, especially given the geographic distance.
In addition to the opinions above, you might also check into auctioning off the house as well as any contents. While this is not commonly done in many parts of the country, there are some locales where this is pretty common. A family member auctioned off their house in northeastern Ohio and it went surprisingly smoothly. The commission is often comparable to what a typical real estate agent gets and you wouldn't have to deal with having it languish on the market. The sales prices can be comparable but it really depends on what's done locally.
In addition to the opinions above, you might also check into auctioning off the house as well as any contents. While this is not commonly done in many parts of the country, there are some locales where this is pretty common. A family member auctioned off their house in northeastern Ohio and it went surprisingly smoothly. The commission is often comparable to what a typical real estate agent gets and you wouldn't have to deal with having it languish on the market. The sales prices can be comparable but it really depends on what's done locally.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
Good advice here - don’t over complicate it. Hire an experienced agent, exempt the buyers you found from the real estate commission or negotiate a reduced commission for those you have found, list the house, set a deadline for all bids to be in, and sell the house to the bid you like the most. And remember there is no obligation for you to sell the house after you see all the bids. Good luck.
Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
You can find the approximate value of the home by using several home value estimators. I typically use Zillow, Redfin, Trulia, Chase Home Value Estimator and the county assessor's office recent sales data (typically public information) to get an idea of the home value. Redfin, Realtor.com and Zillow will let you filter recent sales so you can get a feel of the current market (Redfin is only in certain markets). Sale prices are typically a bit lower between November and March. This should give you a ballpark figure. Many realtors will run the comps free of charge to give you a ballpark idea of home value. You can get your own appraisal and home inspection prior to selling the home to determine any problems with the home and the appropriate discounts to apply as a result of the findings. If you elect to sell the home without a realtor, you can look into local property management companies to give the neighbors, inspectors, contractors, etc. access to the home for a fixed price you can negotiate. You can also purchase an electronic lockbox and give out codes for viewings, repairs, etc. If the neighbor(s) offer to buy the home for a reasonable amount, the title/escrow company can do the heavy lifting. It can also be a good opportunity for a rent-to-own contract or seller financing or a rental if your mother needs the income stream more than the lump sum. You all collectively have to determine if saving $9k is worth the extra time or hassle to sell the home on your own.
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Re: Selling Mom’s house without a realtor? (Ohio)
bluebolt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:25 am It depends how much you care about:
1) Maximizing the amount of money you get for the house
2) Minimizing hassle
For #1, you could get an independent appraisal and use a lawyer/title company (depending on laws/practices in that area), but that won't seem to save much money over an agent for a house of that price. It also doesn't help with #2.
Seems like an agent would help with #2, especially because you're remote.
Maybe the the way to #1 and #2 is negotiating a lower commission with an agent since you are bringing a buyer. Also assuming the buyer doesn't have an agent, they won't have to split the commission.
By the way, I'm generally a "real estate agents don't add much value" person, but in this case I would almost certainly use one.
I like the way bluebolt started this reply: maximize money, minimize hassle. Given the emotional situation you're in, I think it's best to hire an agent/broker/realtor who can facilitate the sale and handle the admin. Take the stress out of understanding the fine print etc, and leave it to someone with ample experience. Sounds like you have enough on your plate. If you need to clear the house out before finding a space for your Mom's things, pop them into a storage unit where it can stay clean and dry until you revisit it https://storeandstacktauranga.co.nz/. Work out what to do with it all when you're feeling a little more at peace with the situation. I wish you all the best.