Cost - And Who Do I Need to Prepare a Will in California?

[keyfort]

I've been getting quotes for this, so far I've been told $2,500 for the basic package for a couple with one piece of real estate, and includes medical POA, financial POA, trust, two wills.

Other places I have a feeling are going to come in higher than this. Is that reasonable for our situation?

- One piece of real estate in the US
- One overseas
- And the below

We don't think we want to do a living trust, yet. We do need something though since right now we have no will at all. Foolish I know.

When I look up estate planning attorneys, it seems like they're going to be very pricey. On the other hand, a free service won't be enough for our situation.

Is there some middle ground term I should be looking up? Like "will preparer"? Does it always have to be done by an attorney to stand up to any disputes?

Our will would have our assets, one piece of foreign real estate, and royalties from IP which would continue after our death. I guess I'd better find a good attorney.

Do people use Yelp for this sort of thing?

[jebmke]

IMO wills are like parachutes. If they don't work correctly you won't be around to get a do-over. I would use a competent estate attorney.

[celia]

An estate planning attorney is what you are looking for. Besides a will and/or trust, they also prepare POA for finances (for when you are incapacitated) and POA for health care decisions.

In California, if you have any financial assets, you probably want a trust so your estate can be settled easily. The will will usually roll everything NOT in your trust into it at your death (furniture, vehicles, collectibles, etc).

If you don't have a trust, your estate will be subject to probate and be tied up in the courts for at least a year and your estate may end up paying more for a lawyer than what you would pay now to set up your estate planning documents.

[quantAndHold]

If you don't have a trust, your estate will be subject to probate and be tied up in the courts for at least a year and your estate may will end up paying more for a lawyer than what you would pay now to set up your estate planning documents.

Fixed that for you.

Getting a simple trust done in California isn’t that expensive. California probate, however, is stupidly expensive.

[bsteiner]

If you don't have a trust, your estate will be subject to probate and be tied up in the courts for at least a year and your estate may will end up paying more for a lawyer than what you would pay now to set up your estate planning documents.

Fixed that for you.

Getting a simple trust done in California isn’t that expensive. California probate, however, is stupidly expensive.

It may cost more if the original poster uses a lawyer who knows to coordinate with local counsel in the foreign country where they own property to make sure the plan works for the property in that country. For example, in some countries there are significant tax disadvantages to putting real estate in a revocable trust.

[keyfort]

If you don't have a trust, your estate will be subject to probate and be tied up in the courts for at least a year and your estate may will end up paying more for a lawyer than what you would pay now to set up your estate planning documents.

Fixed that for you.

Getting a simple trust done in California isn’t that expensive. California probate, however, is stupidly expensive.

It may cost more if the original poster uses a lawyer who knows to coordinate with local counsel in the foreign country where they own property to make sure the plan works for the property in that country. For example, in some countries there are significant tax disadvantages to putting real estate in a revocable trust.

Wow, I can't believe I didn't think of that (the overseas tax implications on a revocable trust). We have to think about how to make it simple for the foreign real estate.

[keyfort]

I updated the OP now I started getting price quotes..

[123]

...We have to think about how to make it simple for the foreign real estate.

Holding foreign real estate raises questions about what your plans may be. Are you both US citizens and plan to reside in the US indefinitely? Are any potential beneficiaries non-US persons? Holding foreign real estate is a strong indicator of the presence of potentially complicating issues that are best addressed with an estate planning attorney and estate tax experts.

Sometimes the easiest path forward might be to simple sell the foreign real estate, but sometimes people can't do that due to family complications or tax considerations if the value is substantial.

[bd7]

Other places I have a feeling are going to come in higher than this. Is that reasonable for our situation?

- One piece of real estate in the US
- One overseas
- And the below

That doesn't really describe your situation, just some assets. Yes, in CA going through probate is inconvenient, but putting properties in and out of trusts is a bit of work too. If you are retired, not planning on moving or refinancing, and you have children you want to inherit with minimal inconvenience then a trust may be what you want. However, you should be fully informed as to how IRS Rev. Rul. 2023-2 affects your situation.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-23-02.pdf

However, there are many other situations where trusts just aren't worth the effort, IMO. Also, I've seen trusts end up in some real messes. There are other solutions but choosing one would require a lot of thought about your particular case.

[FromAto401k]

California estate planning attorney here.

$2,500 for a trust-based basic package is more than reasonable, and in fact, I would say is on the low end. Meanwhile, anytime you throw in a non-citizen spouse and/or foreign assets, the complexity goes up. You want to make sure it's done right.

[keyfort]

Other places I have a feeling are going to come in higher than this. Is that reasonable for our situation?

- One piece of real estate in the US
- One overseas
- And the below

That doesn't really describe your situation, just some assets. Yes, in CA going through probate is inconvenient, but putting properties in and out of trusts is a bit of work too. If you are retired, not planning on moving or refinancing, and you have children you want to inherit with minimal inconvenience then a trust may be what you want. However, you should be fully informed as to how IRS Rev. Rul. 2023-2 affects your situation.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rr-23-02.pdf

However, there are many other situations where trusts just aren't worth the effort, IMO. Also, I've seen trusts end up in some real messes. There are other solutions but choosing one would require a lot of thought about your particular case.

Yea.. I guess I didn't give much detail. Currently, my only concern is to protect one family member in the overseas country who I would wish to inherit the overseas property in the case of my death. The rest of the will / trusts etc isn't urgent for us right now.

Any chance you could let me know an important take away or two from that IRS PDF?

As above I'm not sure that putting the overseas property in trust is a good idea, or in fact even possible.

[keyfort]

California estate planning attorney here.

$2,500 for a trust-based basic package is more than reasonable, and in fact, I would say is on the low end. Meanwhile, anytime you throw in a non-citizen spouse and/or foreign assets, the complexity goes up. You want to make sure it's done right.

Ok, that's good to know.

As in my other reply just now, currently, my only concern is to protect one family member in the overseas country who I would wish to inherit the overseas property in the case of my death. The rest of the will / trusts etc isn't urgent for us right now.

This is making me lean more towards getting a basic will done which includes a provision for the overseas property. Since this is the only part I care about currently, and the rest can wait.

[MrJones]

California estate planning attorney here.

$2,500 for a trust-based basic package is more than reasonable, and in fact, I would say is on the low end. Meanwhile, anytime you throw in a non-citizen spouse and/or foreign assets, the complexity goes up. You want to make sure it's done right.

True, but OP mentioned this was only wills. No trust is included in this package.

[MrJones]

If you don't have a trust, your estate will be subject to probate and be tied up in the courts for at least a year and your estate may will end up paying more for a lawyer than what you would pay now to set up your estate planning documents.

Fixed that for you.

Getting a simple trust done in California isn’t that expensive. California probate, however, is stupidly expensive.

It may cost more if the original poster uses a lawyer who knows to coordinate with local counsel in the foreign country where they own property to make sure the plan works for the property in that country. For example, in some countries there are significant tax disadvantages to putting real estate in a revocable trust.

Wow, I can't believe I didn't think of that (the overseas tax implications on a revocable trust). We have to think about how to make it simple for the foreign real estate.

Just a note: I learned (from bsteiner, actually) that *this* is what an excellent attorney does and why they're worth paying for. Not for the documents but for the questions they ask that one hadn't thought of. Keeping this in mind has been a great way to figure out how to evaluate if a given attorney fits our needs.

Many attorneys seem to be in the trust mill business where they're simply plugging in your info into a template. In my experience at least.

You have a great test here: present your situation while interviewing lawyers and see if they picked up on what bsteiner above picked up on .

[keyfort]

If you don't have a trust, your estate will be subject to probate and be tied up in the courts for at least a year and your estate may will end up paying more for a lawyer than what you would pay now to set up your estate planning documents.

Fixed that for you.

Getting a simple trust done in California isn’t that expensive. California probate, however, is stupidly expensive.

It may cost more if the original poster uses a lawyer who knows to coordinate with local counsel in the foreign country where they own property to make sure the plan works for the property in that country. For example, in some countries there are significant tax disadvantages to putting real estate in a revocable trust.

Wow, I can't believe I didn't think of that (the overseas tax implications on a revocable trust). We have to think about how to make it simple for the foreign real estate.

Just a note: I learned (from bsteiner, actually) that *this* is what an excellent attorney does and why they're worth paying for. Not for the documents but for the questions they ask that one hadn't thought of. Keeping this in mind has been a great way to figure out how to evaluate if a given attorney fits our needs.

Many attorneys seem to be in the trust mill business where they're simply plugging in your info into a template. In my experience at least.

You have a great test here: present your situation while interviewing lawyers and see if they picked up on what bsteiner above picked up on .

Interestingly, I had a quick initial call with two different attorneys, and they both told me that the overseas real estate has to be handled overseas i.e. I need a will in place in that overseas country. At least that's how I interpreted their answers.

It seems from my conversations with the US attorneys that it's more important to handle the will for the overseas property with an overseas attorney, and of course we can at the same time include something in our will here in the US too.

[jabo96]

California estate planning attorney here.

$2,500 for a trust-based basic package is more than reasonable, and in fact, I would say is on the low end. Meanwhile, anytime you throw in a non-citizen spouse and/or foreign assets, the complexity goes up. You want to make sure it's done right.

As a CA estate planning attorney perhaps you can give me your opinion on this issue re: prop. 19, parent to child transfer, homeowner exemption and an estate atty. who I think dropped the ball. Husband inherited property worth approx. $1.3 million from parents the last of whom died in Feb. 2022. Property was in a trust, husband the sole heir, was a co-trustee. Husband went to atty that had prepared the trust when last parent died to have property put in his name. Atty did not have husband fill out homeowners exemption. About 1 year later, we both went to same attorney to have our own trust set up and put inherited property in name of our trust. A few months later the county sent a postcard to us showing property value (and hence tax increase) at current market value. We then went back to attorney who then pulled out of his desk a homeowners exemption, had us fill it out and send into county. Currently county has this under review (and has been for a couple months) in the meantime we have received supplemental property tax bills and 2023 -2024 property tax bills as if the current market value is what they've assessed. I think this is malpractice on part of estate attorney since the whole point of putting property in trust is to avoid the reassessment. This attorney is retiring in a few weeks. Information I've read on government sites indicate there is some confusion about Prop 19. and the issue that seems to apply to our situation is not having filed a homeowner's exemption within 1 year of parent's death, although that's not entirely clear.

[FromAto401k]

Obviously, this is not legal advice, but generally speaking, if the father died in Feb. 2022, then Prop 19 was in effect. You didn't state if the property was parent's primary residence and if it is now being used as your husband's principal residence. These are important considerations. There is generally a 3-yr period from date of death/transfer in which to file the exclusion paperwork.

[Pops1860]

jabo96 has opened a new thread on his question (separate topic). Please respond to his situation in that new thread.

viewtopic.php?t=417595

Moderator Pops1860

[bsteiner]

California estate planning attorney here.

$2,500 for a trust-based basic package is more than reasonable, and in fact, I would say is on the low end. Meanwhile, anytime you throw in a non-citizen spouse and/or foreign assets, the complexity goes up. You want to make sure it's done right.

Ok, that's good to know.

As in my other reply just now, currently, my only concern is to protect one family member in the overseas country who I would wish to inherit the overseas property in the case of my death. The rest of the will / trusts etc isn't urgent for us right now.

This is making me lean more towards getting a basic will done which includes a provision for the overseas property. Since this is the only part I care about currently, and the rest can wait.

If the beneficiary is in another country, that adds another level of complexity.

The planning will depend on, among other things, what country it is.

Fixed that for you.

Getting a simple trust done in California isn’t that expensive. California probate, however, is stupidly expensive.

It may cost more if the original poster uses a lawyer who knows to coordinate with local counsel in the foreign country where they own property to make sure the plan works for the property in that country. For example, in some countries there are significant tax disadvantages to putting real estate in a revocable trust.

Wow, I can't believe I didn't think of that (the overseas tax implications on a revocable trust). We have to think about how to make it simple for the foreign real estate.

Just a note: I learned (from bsteiner, actually) that *this* is what an excellent attorney does and why they're worth paying for. Not for the documents but for the questions they ask that one hadn't thought of. Keeping this in mind has been a great way to figure out how to evaluate if a given attorney fits our needs.

Many attorneys seem to be in the trust mill business where they're simply plugging in your info into a template. In my experience at least.

You have a great test here: present your situation while interviewing lawyers and see if they picked up on what bsteiner above picked up on .

Interestingly, I had a quick initial call with two different attorneys, and they both told me that the overseas real estate has to be handled overseas i.e. I need a will in place in that overseas country. At least that's how I interpreted their answers.

It seems from my conversations with the US attorneys that it's more important to handle the will for the overseas property with an overseas attorney, and of course we can at the same time include something in our will here in the US too.

Whether to use one Will or separate Wills may depend on the country involved, as well as the lawyer's preference.

Instead of shopping this around, just pick one from a firm with a good trusts and estates group, or pick a low cost one and hope for the best.