Citi - new fee unless you have $30k or make monthly deposits

[exodusing]

I just got a notice from Citi to the effect that they will charge $15/month for checking unless you have at least $30,000 in Citi accounts or make an Enhanced Direct Deposit of $250 every month. They also list a number of other fees. Am I misreading the notice? https://online.citi.com/JRS/popups/ao/c ... ice_EN.pdf

Enhanced Direct Deposit seems to mean receiving money through ACH. https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

They say this will apply to all accounts within a year or so.

I suppose since I transfer money from Vanguard each month I'll avoid this fee, but this is a large change from the present and from most other banks.

[pizzy]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

[sperry8]

I just got a notice from Citi to the effect that they will charge $15/month for checking unless you have at least $30,000 in Citi accounts or make an Enhanced Direct Deposit of $250 every month. They also list a number of other fees. Am I misreading the notice? https://online.citi.com/JRS/popups/ao/c ... ice_EN.pdf

Enhanced Direct Deposit seems to mean receiving money through ACH. https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

They say this will apply to all accounts within a year or so.

I suppose since I transfer money from Vanguard each month I'll avoid this fee, but this is a large change from the present and from most other banks.

You're not misreading it... that is what will happen in 2024 as they roll it out to all accounts. Some discussion about it has been happening here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=395956&newpost=7542 ... ead#unread

[exodusing]

They currently require $10,000 for our accounts - $30,000 is a rather large increase.

I see this is covered in viewtopic.php?p=7540147#p7540147 and subsequent posts.

[nalor511]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

Totally and utterly disagree. Almost every CU, along with etrade, Schwab, Fidelity, offer completely free banking. There's zero reason to pay for banking in 2023

[exodusing]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

[pizzy]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

Totally and utterly disagree. Almost every CU, along with etrade, Schwab, Fidelity, offer completely free banking. There's zero reason to pay for banking in 2023

I didn’t say there aren’t free options. I said you should not expect them.

In other words, there’s no guarantee that a given bank will offer free bank accounts.

[tibbitts]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

[Beensabu]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

The "big" ones do. That's why I closed my Chase account (that was WaMu when I opened it) as soon as I quit my old job. Learned they charged $20/mo when I had no direct deposits for a few months on maternity leave.

No one should expect free bank accounts.

I have accounts that don't charge fees for checking. One is a credit union. The other is a regional bank. The only hurdle to no fees is opting into electronic statements.

You know what someone doesn't need when they don't have direct deposits coming in from their paycheck from their job they don't have? Extra fees they're contractually obligated to but didn't realize existed because they weren't in a situation where they applied previously.

[sperry8]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

The "big" ones do. That's why I closed my Chase account (that was WaMu when I opened it) as soon as I quit my old job. Learned they charged $20/mo when I had no direct deposits for a few months on maternity leave.

No one should expect free bank accounts.

I have accounts that don't charge fees for checking. One is a credit union. The other is a regional bank. The only hurdle to no fees is opting into electronic statements.

You know what someone doesn't need when they don't have direct deposits coming in from their paycheck from their job they don't have? Extra fees they're contractually obligated to but didn't realize existed because they weren't in a situation where they applied previously.

+1. Imagine, someone become unemployed and EDD stops (for a while). Bam, Citi hits them with a $15 mo charge.

It is funny though... from the 2 threads about this, people have very strong feelings about this (either pro or con). Wild.

[pizzy]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

The "big" ones do. That's why I closed my Chase account (that was WaMu when I opened it) as soon as I quit my old job. Learned they charged $20/mo when I had no direct deposits for a few months on maternity leave.

No one should expect free bank accounts.

I have accounts that don't charge fees for checking. One is a credit union. The other is a regional bank. The only hurdle to no fees is opting into electronic statements.

You know what someone doesn't need when they don't have direct deposits coming in from their paycheck from their job they don't have? Extra fees they're contractually obligated to but didn't realize existed because they weren't in a situation where they applied previously.

Again, never said free accounts don’t exist.

I just don’t think people should walk into a bank with the “expectation” of a free account.

I feel the same about most things.

No one should ever “expect” free.

Controlling expectations is key to being a level headed adult.

[sperry8]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

The "big" ones do. That's why I closed my Chase account (that was WaMu when I opened it) as soon as I quit my old job. Learned they charged $20/mo when I had no direct deposits for a few months on maternity leave.

No one should expect free bank accounts.

I have accounts that don't charge fees for checking. One is a credit union. The other is a regional bank. The only hurdle to no fees is opting into electronic statements.

You know what someone doesn't need when they don't have direct deposits coming in from their paycheck from their job they don't have? Extra fees they're contractually obligated to but didn't realize existed because they weren't in a situation where they applied previously.

Again, never said free accounts don’t exist.

I just don’t think people should walk into a bank with the “expectation” of a free account.

I feel the same about most things.

No one should ever “expect” free.

Controlling expectations is key to being a level headed adult.

I heard a buddhist quote about this somewhat recently... "the happiest man is a man who has no expectations" (or something similar to that). That said, competitively Citi checking will be at a disadvantage after rollout (although perhaps they'll start a trend).

[exodusing]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

[Beensabu]

No one should ever “expect” free.

Sure. But they should definitely "look" for free. Because it's pretty easy to find as far as free checking is concerned.

Controlling expectations is key to being a level headed adult.

Expectations will mess you up. It's not about controlling them. Just don't ever have them. And don't let other people put them on you. Not in any way, shape, or form, when it comes to absolutely anything. Seriously. That's the fast pass to misery.

[pizzy]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

They couldn’t make it easier.

[sperry8]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

That is the definition Citi is using. But what part of it (from your reading) shows that a manual push from Vanguard (for example) would be accepted as EDD? To me it reads that it's a payroll/payment sort of thing OR from Zelle/Paypal/Venmo, or manual. The only options I see would be (i) to wire from Vanguard to Citi which from their definition should count. Although wiring 12 times per year may be more annoying than it's worth or (ii) perhaps transferring from Citi savings to Citi checking 12x per year. Anyway - that's my reading of the definition... does yours differ? (not saying my reading is correct... just saying that's how I read it).

[Beensabu]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

The "big" ones do. That's why I closed my Chase account (that was WaMu when I opened it) as soon as I quit my old job. Learned they charged $20/mo when I had no direct deposits for a few months on maternity leave.

No one should expect free bank accounts.

I have accounts that don't charge fees for checking. One is a credit union. The other is a regional bank. The only hurdle to no fees is opting into electronic statements.

You know what someone doesn't need when they don't have direct deposits coming in from their paycheck from their job they don't have? Extra fees they're contractually obligated to but didn't realize existed because they weren't in a situation where they applied previously.

+1. Imagine, someone become unemployed and EDD stops (for a while). Bam, Citi hits them with a $15 mo charge.

It is funny though... from the 2 threads about this, people have very strong feelings about this (either pro or con). Wild.

EDD isn't even direct deposit. Or at least it wasn't when I was on maternity leave years ago. Thus the monthly fees. But I would never have known if not for that. It takes personal experience sometimes to go "oh, that's a thing".

Edit: Sorry, I'm in California, and "EDD" for me means unemployment insurance.

[exodusing]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

That is the definition Citi is using. But what part of it (from your reading) shows that a manual push from Vanguard (for example) would be accepted as EDD? To me it reads that it's a payroll/payment sort of thing OR from Zelle/Paypal/Venmo, or manual. The only options I see would be (i) to wire from Vanguard to Citi which from their definition should count. Although wiring 12 times per year may be more annoying than it's worth or (ii) perhaps transferring from Citi savings to Citi checking 12x per year. Anyway - that's my reading of the definition... does yours differ? (not saying my reading is correct... just saying that's how I read it).

"An electronic deposit through the ACH ...to your checking account". The words "Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments" are just defining ACH. Your (iii) is specifically excluded "transfers between Citibank accounts ... do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit." I don't see any mention of wiring in the definition, just ACH deposits/payments.

[sperry8]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

That is the definition Citi is using. But what part of it (from your reading) shows that a manual push from Vanguard (for example) would be accepted as EDD? To me it reads that it's a payroll/payment sort of thing OR from Zelle/Paypal/Venmo, or manual. The only options I see would be (i) to wire from Vanguard to Citi which from their definition should count. Although wiring 12 times per year may be more annoying than it's worth or (ii) perhaps transferring from Citi savings to Citi checking 12x per year. Anyway - that's my reading of the definition... does yours differ? (not saying my reading is correct... just saying that's how I read it).

"An electronic deposit through the ACH ... other payment to your checking account". Your (iii) is specifically excluded "transfers between Citibank accounts ... do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit." I don't see any mention of wiring in the definition, just ACH deposits/payments.

First let me say my reading of it was horrible. I didn't see the carve outs... so obv both of my ideas are specifically carved out as not applying. Moving on...

I see how you're reading the EDD now... and why one can believe "other payments to your checking or savings account" will apply. Perhaps they will. But from my overall reading of the intent (which of course is unknown) then it seems to me they mean "payroll", the first word they use... and they go on to show the types of ways payroll can be paid. A manual push of $250 per month initiated by a user may not fill their intent. Of course, I do not know this IS their intent. I wonder though, what is the point of the $250 EDD minimum if one can subvert it just by ACHing in from another account manually? What does Citi gain from that? Making sure we're alive? One can ACH in manually... wait a few days and then ACH right back out (just as one may do when payroll hits).

[locke12]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

My Amex Business checking is free - no min deposits or balance.

I would go to another bank if they pulled this on me. I can see 1-2k reasonable as that's what I usually leave in checking to pay bills and whatnot but 30k to avoid fees is a lot.

[pizzy]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

My Amex Business checking is free - no min deposits or balance.

I would go to another bank if they pulled this on me. I can see 1-2k reasonable as that's what I usually leave in checking to pay bills and whatnot but 30k to avoid fees is a lot.

Hopefully you are the last person responding that there are free bank accounts. Everyone knows this. No one said there weren’t.

[erp]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

That is the definition Citi is using. But what part of it (from your reading) shows that a manual push from Vanguard (for example) would be accepted as EDD? To me it reads that it's a payroll/payment sort of thing OR from Zelle/Paypal/Venmo, or manual. The only options I see would be (i) to wire from Vanguard to Citi which from their definition should count. Although wiring 12 times per year may be more annoying than it's worth or (ii) perhaps transferring from Citi savings to Citi checking 12x per year. Anyway - that's my reading of the definition... does yours differ? (not saying my reading is correct... just saying that's how I read it).

What? You are definitely reading it incorrectly then. Wires are explicitly disqualified right in the post you quoted.

Someone in the other thread already said that ACH from Vanguard did work (ie they have the simplified account and has been doing this already). If that can be automated once a month, then it's no work at all:

Note I am already on the new package with the new fee avoidance policy.
They asked if people want to be moved to the new package sooner else be automatically moved in 2024, so I agreed to move NOW.
Just got my first statement and it clearly states I have met the required activity and I avoided the fee without $30k at Citi.
I have a few "ACH Electronic Credit" on my statements, from another bank and from Vanguard.
I am not on SS yet, have no pension, and do not get regular paychecks since retired.

It's strange that people get so worked up when the word "fee" is used. So the min balance required used to be 10k? Missing out on 5% interest means $500 lost a year, or say $360 after tax. That's double the $15 fee you are super upset about.

[beyou]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

My Amex Business checking is free - no min deposits or balance.

I would go to another bank if they pulled this on me. I can see 1-2k reasonable as that's what I usually leave in checking to pay bills and whatnot but 30k to avoid fees is a lot.

Hopefully you are the last person responding that there are free bank accounts. Everyone knows this. No one said there weren’t.

Free online, sure. Free with an extensive branch network for onsite assistance, their own ATMs, not so much.
I maintain a free online and get free branch banking by following very simple easy-to-comply rules at Citi.
And this change made it even easier to get free banking.

[beyou]

Note I am already on the new package with the new fee avoidance policy.
They asked if people want to be moved to the new package sooner else be automatically moved in 2024, so I agreed to move NOW.
Just got my first statement and it clearly states I have met the required activity and I avoided the fee without $30k at Citi.
I have a few "ACH Electronic Credit" on my statements, from another bank and from Vanguard.
I am not on SS yet, have no pension, and do not get regular paychecks since retired.

It's strange that people get so worked up when the word "fee" is used. So the min balance required used to be 10k? Missing out on 5% interest means $500 lost a year, or say $360 after tax. That's double the $15 fee you are super upset about.

There isn't even a need to lose the 5% one can get on cash.

1) Keep unlimited $ in VUSXX or VMFXX at Vanguard and get > 5%

2) Auto transfer $250 or more per month to Citi (I was already doing so than having automatically bills paid days afterwards, leaving Citi little float to earn off of my account).

3) Free Citi account (no Citi fees and they earn little or no float).

There is no reason to settle for an online-only bank if you see any value to a large branch bank.

And if one really does not want to make the auto deposits, open a Citi brokerage and hold SGOV or similar ETF, where you also get > 5% on your $30k
and can keep nearly zero in checking most of the time for truly free checking.

[sperry8]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

That is the definition Citi is using. But what part of it (from your reading) shows that a manual push from Vanguard (for example) would be accepted as EDD? To me it reads that it's a payroll/payment sort of thing OR from Zelle/Paypal/Venmo, or manual. The only options I see would be (i) to wire from Vanguard to Citi which from their definition should count. Although wiring 12 times per year may be more annoying than it's worth or (ii) perhaps transferring from Citi savings to Citi checking 12x per year. Anyway - that's my reading of the definition... does yours differ? (not saying my reading is correct... just saying that's how I read it).

What? You are definitely reading it incorrectly then. Wires are explicitly disqualified right in the post you quoted.

Someone in the other thread already said that ACH from Vanguard did work (ie they have the simplified account and has been doing this already). If that can be automated once a month, then it's no work at all:

Note I am already on the new package with the new fee avoidance policy.
They asked if people want to be moved to the new package sooner else be automatically moved in 2024, so I agreed to move NOW.
Just got my first statement and it clearly states I have met the required activity and I avoided the fee without $30k at Citi.
I have a few "ACH Electronic Credit" on my statements, from another bank and from Vanguard.
I am not on SS yet, have no pension, and do not get regular paychecks since retired.

It's strange that people get so worked up when the word "fee" is used. So the min balance required used to be 10k? Missing out on 5% interest means $500 lost a year, or say $360 after tax. That's double the $15 fee you are super upset about.

Yup, my reading of it was horrible (as I stated and posted above). Yikes! That'll teach me to read legalese before dinner (i'm starving!) No excuse though... as I said, horrible reading by me.

Good news on the ACH manual push working (if true). Seems weird though... why would Citi even bother saying $250 EDD if they simply mean put $250 into our account every month using the ACH system? Anyway, I do wonder how long one has to keep the ACH there? I'll push in $250 from another bank using ACH... and then push it back out a few days later (as I would do with payroll). Seems weird this is what Citi actually wants

[erp]

Good news on the ACH manual push working (if true). Seems weird though... why would Citi even bother saying $250 EDD if they simply mean put $250 into our account every month using the ACH system? Anyway, I do wonder how long one has to keep the ACH there? I'll push in $250 from another bank using ACH... and then push it back out a few days later (as I would do with payroll). Seems weird this is what Citi actually wants

Oh, I was thinking you used this checking account as your main checking account. Sounds like it's something that just sits around until you need it? Yeah, feeding in 250/mth is a slight annoyance then (but was the min 10k before? that's still a win, right?)

The wording is definitely unclear. I hate that (but then some of the biggest threads here wouldn't exist since all they discuss are very specific wording from the IRS or some bank/brokerage bonus!). The best thing is to test it or wait till there are more posts of people getting it to work (kind of like how reading the doctorofcredit comments is usually the best way to find the optimal way to do a particular promo, etc).

[sperry8]

Good news on the ACH manual push working (if true). Seems weird though... why would Citi even bother saying $250 EDD if they simply mean put $250 into our account every month using the ACH system? Anyway, I do wonder how long one has to keep the ACH there? I'll push in $250 from another bank using ACH... and then push it back out a few days later (as I would do with payroll). Seems weird this is what Citi actually wants

Oh, I was thinking you used this checking account as your main checking account. Sounds like it's something that just sits around until you need it? Yeah, feeding in 250/mth is a slight annoyance then (but was the min 10k before? that's still a win, right?)

The wording is definitely unclear. I hate that (but then some of the biggest threads here wouldn't exist since all they discuss are very specific wording from the IRS or some bank/brokerage bonus!). The best thing is to test it or wait till there are more posts of people getting it to work (kind of like how reading the doctorofcredit comments is usually the best way to find the optimal way to do a particular promo, etc).

Actually, I see what you're saying now. It is my main bill pay checking acct. As such I, each month, move >$250 into it via ACH (pushed, by me, from another acct, sometimes Vanguard, sometimes Schwab, etc). So if what the other poster said is true, me simply moving money into it from another source via ACH monthly and paying bills as I always do - will keep the account free. And obv we can wait to see more data points from early adopters to see if that's the case. If true, this'll be fine and I'll keep Citi as my main bill paying acct

[tibbitts]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

I would wait to see if it works for someone else, only because in past years bonuses at other banks I've wanted to qualify might have used slightly different wording (iirc) but when I'd search for experiences I'd find that just ACH-ing from one account to another vs. something like a payroll deposit didn't work. You might be correct in interpreting the wording, but if the Citi doesn't agree and doesn't pay the bonus, I wouldn't count on being able to win an argument with them.

[exodusing]

Now that I look at this again, rather than maintaining $10,000 in Citi for free checking and saving, I can just make sure I transfer $250/month from Vanguard by ACH (we almost always do more, for bill pay, so this is easy) and I don't have to maintain any minimum balance. Correct?

Probably not. Most similar requirements seem to specifically exclude ACH transfers you initiate and apply only to direct deposit transactions, like from a government payment or your employer.

"An EDD is an electronic deposit through the Automated Clearing House (“ACH”) Network of payroll, pension, social security, government benefits and other payments to your checking or savings account. An Enhanced Direct Deposit also includes all deposits via Zelle and other P2P payments when made via ACH using providers such as Venmo or PayPal. Teller deposits, cash deposits, check deposits, wire transfers, transfers between Citibank accounts, ATM transfers and deposits, mobile check deposits, and P2P payments using a debit card do not qualify as an Enhanced Direct Deposit."
https://www.citi.com/banking/simplifiedbanking

Looks to me like any ACH payment into the checking account qualifies. Do you have another reading of this definition?

I would wait to see if it works for someone else, only because in past years bonuses at other banks I've wanted to qualify might have used slightly different wording (iirc) but when I'd search for experiences I'd find that just ACH-ing from one account to another vs. something like a payroll deposit didn't work. You might be correct in interpreting the wording, but if the Citi doesn't agree and doesn't pay the bonus, I wouldn't count on being able to win an argument with them.

Looks like it works for someone else. See beyou's posts above viewtopic.php?p=7542988#p7542988 and in another thread viewtopic.php?p=7541604#p7541604

[tibbitts]

Looks like it works for someone else.

In that case I agree it should work for you. I've been excluded from enough bonuses (not from Citi though) due to lack of sufficient "real" direct deposits
that my instinctive reaction is to give up without evidence to the contrary - which you now have.

[wander]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

Schwab does not require direct deposit, same with Navy FCU.

[Grt2bOutdoors]

How much is the monthly fee if you don’t have $30k in the account? A 2 year Treasury note pays roughly 5%, that’s $3K in interest they won’t be getting. The reason for the new requirement is to obtain cheap deposits and the hope that customers aren’t savvy enough to leave the bank, the inconvenience factor you know.

[exodusing]

How much is the monthly fee if you don’t have $30k in the account? A 2 year Treasury note pays roughly 5%, that’s $3K in interest they won’t be getting. The reason for the new requirement is to obtain cheap deposits and the hope that customers aren’t savvy enough to leave the bank, the inconvenience factor you know.

For fees, see the OP and links.

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

Leaving a large balance made more sense in the recent era of minimal interest rates. Making this change will likely cause at least some people to notice interest rates are higher and Citi balances at almost 0% are costly.

[Normchad]

How much is the monthly fee if you don’t have $30k in the account? A 2 year Treasury note pays roughly 5%, that’s $3K in interest they won’t be getting. The reason for the new requirement is to obtain cheap deposits and the hope that customers aren’t savvy enough to leave the bank, the inconvenience factor you know.

For fees, see the OP and links.

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

Leaving a large balance made more sense in the recent era of minimal interest rates. Making this change will likely cause at least some people to notice interest rates are higher and Citi balances at almost 0% are costly.

This just seems like a hassle to me. Personally, I’d just open an account some place where it’s always free. In my case, I use a credit union. But maybe Citibank is offering some other great thing that justifies the hoops you could jump through.

[exodusing]

How much is the monthly fee if you don’t have $30k in the account? A 2 year Treasury note pays roughly 5%, that’s $3K in interest they won’t be getting. The reason for the new requirement is to obtain cheap deposits and the hope that customers aren’t savvy enough to leave the bank, the inconvenience factor you know.

For fees, see the OP and links.

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

Leaving a large balance made more sense in the recent era of minimal interest rates. Making this change will likely cause at least some people to notice interest rates are higher and Citi balances at almost 0% are costly.

This just seems like a hassle to me. Personally, I’d just open an account some place where it’s always free. In my case, I use a credit union. But maybe Citibank is offering some other great thing that justifies the hoops you could jump through.

What hassle? We're already depositing a lot more the $250/month by ACH and using those funds for bill payments. Finding a new bank, opening an account in the know your customer era, setting up bill pay, etc. is more of a hassle.

[WoodSpinner]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

Why on earth not???

The banks are making BANK on the interest rate float on my deposits!!!

Currently trying to move my MIL trust from BofA because of their exorbitant $25/month fee (I am the Trustee of the Trust). For some reason they won’t waive the fees even though I am a Platinum client due to my holdings with MerrillEdge.

WoodSpinner

[pizzy]

Don’t most banks have direct deposit requirements for free checking?

No one should expect free bank accounts.

Why on earth not???

The banks are making BANK on the interest rate float on my deposits!!!

Currently trying to move my MIL trust from BofA because of their exorbitant $25/month fee (I am the Trustee of the Trust). For some reason they won’t waive the fees even though I am a Platinum client due to my holdings with MerrillEdge.

WoodSpinner

This is why.

[goingup]

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

exodusing-
Our brick and mortar bank gives a monthly statement which shows each category requirement for free checking and how it was met. Each direct deposit counts toward the requirement. For us that is bond interest, dividends, and royalties. It does not have to be W2 wages or SS.

If you get a monthly statement like this it will be easy to see what qualifies as an "Enhanced Direct Deposit".

[exodusing]

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

exodusing-
Our brick and mortar bank gives a monthly statement which shows each category requirement for free checking and how it was met. Each direct deposit counts toward the requirement. For us that is bond interest, dividends, and royalties. It does not have to be W2 wages or SS.

If you get a monthly statement like this it will be easy to see what qualifies as an "Enhanced Direct Deposit".

We intend to sign up, since an ACH deposit appears to meet the definition and moving our balance out of Citi and into a MM would more than pay the fee. Also, this post by beyou supports any ACH deposit working viewtopic.php?p=7541604#p7541604

[sperry8]

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

exodusing-
Our brick and mortar bank gives a monthly statement which shows each category requirement for free checking and how it was met. Each direct deposit counts toward the requirement. For us that is bond interest, dividends, and royalties. It does not have to be W2 wages or SS.

If you get a monthly statement like this it will be easy to see what qualifies as an "Enhanced Direct Deposit".

I can't even find a way to download a checking acct statement from Citi's website!
No matter which statement link I choose - it always shows me my Citi cc statement. Oh how Citi is frustrating!

the online transaction area shows my manually pushed monies as "ACH Electronic Credit". Hopefully as the other poster said, that will count as an EDD deposit.

[Mike Scott]

The majority of our local banks and credit unions advertise free checking accounts with online banking. They are still paying 0.1% interest so cash savings go somewhere else.

[sperry8]

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

exodusing-
Our brick and mortar bank gives a monthly statement which shows each category requirement for free checking and how it was met. Each direct deposit counts toward the requirement. For us that is bond interest, dividends, and royalties. It does not have to be W2 wages or SS.

If you get a monthly statement like this it will be easy to see what qualifies as an "Enhanced Direct Deposit".

I can't even find a way to download a checking acct statement from Citi's website!
No matter which statement link I choose - it always shows me my Citi cc statement. Oh how Citi is frustrating!

the online transaction area shows my manually pushed monies as "ACH Electronic Credit". Hopefully as the other poster said, that will count as an EDD deposit.

After further review it also shows "MoneyLink" next to the ACH Electronic Credit verbiage. I still would like to see more data points that this counts as an EDD

[HereToLearn]

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

exodusing-
Our brick and mortar bank gives a monthly statement which shows each category requirement for free checking and how it was met. Each direct deposit counts toward the requirement. For us that is bond interest, dividends, and royalties. It does not have to be W2 wages or SS.

If you get a monthly statement like this it will be easy to see what qualifies as an "Enhanced Direct Deposit".

I can't even find a way to download a checking acct statement from Citi's website!
No matter which statement link I choose - it always shows me my Citi cc statement. Oh how Citi is frustrating!

the online transaction area shows my manually pushed monies as "ACH Electronic Credit". Hopefully as the other poster said, that will count as an EDD deposit.

I had never tried to download my checking account statement until just now, and was able to do so easily, even using Safari which some sites do not like.

If you click on checking account first, it will automatically go to checking account statements but allows the option in a pulldown menu to choose CC or savings, etc.

Is there a chance that you need to update your OS?

I have my frustrations with Citi but their online platform seems to work for me. I detest the endless ads/offers that I have to decline before accessing my account, but otherwise I am happy with their platform.

[sperry8]

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

exodusing-
Our brick and mortar bank gives a monthly statement which shows each category requirement for free checking and how it was met. Each direct deposit counts toward the requirement. For us that is bond interest, dividends, and royalties. It does not have to be W2 wages or SS.

If you get a monthly statement like this it will be easy to see what qualifies as an "Enhanced Direct Deposit".

I can't even find a way to download a checking acct statement from Citi's website!
No matter which statement link I choose - it always shows me my Citi cc statement. Oh how Citi is frustrating!

the online transaction area shows my manually pushed monies as "ACH Electronic Credit". Hopefully as the other poster said, that will count as an EDD deposit.

I had never tried to download my checking account statement until just now, and was able to do so easily, even using Safari which some sites do not like.

If you click on checking account first, it will automatically go to checking account statements but allows the option in a pulldown menu to choose CC or savings, etc.

Is there a chance that you need to update your OS?

I have my frustrations with Citi but their online platform seems to work for me. I detest the endless ads/offers that I have to decline before accessing my account, but otherwise I am happy with their platform.

Logged in, clicked "checking" on the left hand sider from the boxes avail. The right hand side then shows "Checking-XXXX" and then on the lower right hand side it shows a box saying "I want to..." and one of the options is "view statements". The statements link pops up a statements view and the only view is for my credit card.

Is this how you're viewing your checking acct statement?

[HereToLearn]

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

exodusing-
Our brick and mortar bank gives a monthly statement which shows each category requirement for free checking and how it was met. Each direct deposit counts toward the requirement. For us that is bond interest, dividends, and royalties. It does not have to be W2 wages or SS.

If you get a monthly statement like this it will be easy to see what qualifies as an "Enhanced Direct Deposit".

I can't even find a way to download a checking acct statement from Citi's website!
No matter which statement link I choose - it always shows me my Citi cc statement. Oh how Citi is frustrating!

the online transaction area shows my manually pushed monies as "ACH Electronic Credit". Hopefully as the other poster said, that will count as an EDD deposit.

I had never tried to download my checking account statement until just now, and was able to do so easily, even using Safari which some sites do not like.

If you click on checking account first, it will automatically go to checking account statements but allows the option in a pulldown menu to choose CC or savings, etc.

Is there a chance that you need to update your OS?

I have my frustrations with Citi but their online platform seems to work for me. I detest the endless ads/offers that I have to decline before accessing my account, but otherwise I am happy with their platform.

Logged in, clicked "checking" on the left hand sider from the boxes avail. The right hand side then shows "Checking-XXXX" and then on the lower right hand side it shows a box saying "I want to..." and one of the options is "view statements". The statements link pops up a statements view and the only view is for my credit card.

Is this how you're viewing your checking acct statement?

No, I can see checking statement either when I click checking on the sidebar on the left OR if I click view statements while in All Accounts. The pulldown menu appears in both options. I can then view in PDF or download.

I just logged back in to confirm that the download worked and it did. I was also able to toggle to CC or savings, and view and download those statements also.

Have you checked to confirm your system is up to date?

Also, I am doing all of this on a desktop--not the phone. I have never tried viewing on the phone so perhaps that is the difference?

[beyou]

How much is the monthly fee if you don’t have $30k in the account? A 2 year Treasury note pays roughly 5%, that’s $3K in interest they won’t be getting. The reason for the new requirement is to obtain cheap deposits and the hope that customers aren’t savvy enough to leave the bank, the inconvenience factor you know.

For fees, see the OP and links.

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

Leaving a large balance made more sense in the recent era of minimal interest rates. Making this change will likely cause at least some people to notice interest rates are higher and Citi balances at almost 0% are costly.

This just seems like a hassle to me. Personally, I’d just open an account some place where it’s always free. In my case, I use a credit union. But maybe Citibank is offering some other great thing that justifies the hoops you could jump through.

I am not aware of ANY bank checking account that would pay as much as my Vanguard money market fund.
Hence I will never leave much of a balance in a checking account.
Hence I will always use ACH to deposit cash to any checking account just in time before bills are due.
I have had automated withdrawals from Vanguard to Citi in place long before this change.
I have another "free" online bank account with decent (for checking) interest and still do not leave much of a balance there.
It still pays about 1/10th what Vanguard mmkt funds pay.
Any cash in that account is also deposited either with ACH or mobile paper check deposits.

This change by Citibank actually simplified the ability to get no fee checking.
Before you need ACH AND electronic bill payments, now only ACH, no bill pay required.
And in the past they have counted every and all sources of ACH, just not checks and internal transfers, same as going forward.

This is really a non-issue for most customers, except those who kept a large balance and never deposited from any other institution.
For those customers only, now they have to leave an even bigger balance. But that is not something I would recommend, unless it's at Citi brokerage holding ETFs for instance. Any deposit product they have is just terrible in terms of rates. Why keep a balance in their bank products ?

[sperry8]

How much is the monthly fee if you don’t have $30k in the account? A 2 year Treasury note pays roughly 5%, that’s $3K in interest they won’t be getting. The reason for the new requirement is to obtain cheap deposits and the hope that customers aren’t savvy enough to leave the bank, the inconvenience factor you know.

For fees, see the OP and links.

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

Leaving a large balance made more sense in the recent era of minimal interest rates. Making this change will likely cause at least some people to notice interest rates are higher and Citi balances at almost 0% are costly.

This just seems like a hassle to me. Personally, I’d just open an account some place where it’s always free. In my case, I use a credit union. But maybe Citibank is offering some other great thing that justifies the hoops you could jump through.

I am not aware of ANY bank checking account that would pay as much as my Vanguard money market fund.
Hence I will never leave much of a balance in a checking account.
Hence I will always use ACH to deposit cash to any checking account just in time before bills are due.
I have had automated withdrawals from Vanguard to Citi in place long before this change.
I have another "free" online bank account with decent (for checking) interest and still do not leave much of a balance there.
It still pays about 1/10th what Vanguard mmkt funds pay.
Any cash in that account is also deposited either with ACH or mobile paper check deposits.

This change by Citibank actually simplified the ability to get no fee checking.
Before you need ACH AND electronic bill payments, now only ACH, no bill pay required.
And in the past they have counted every and all sources of ACH, just not checks and internal transfers, same as going forward.

This is really a non-issue for most customers, except those who kept a large balance and never deposited from any other institution.
For those customers only, now they have to leave an even bigger balance. But that is not something I would recommend, unless it's at Citi brokerage holding ETFs for instance. Any deposit product they have is just terrible in terms of rates. Why keep a balance in their bank products ?

Note, bolding above is mine. I'd agree with what you wrote, assuming what I bolded is true... that is, as long as any manual monthly push >$250 from Vanguard/broker/bank counts as EDD. I am not doubting your experience, just saying as long as it holds true after they switch to "simplified banking" then this is a non-issue for many, and even for me (who has no true payroll direct deposit).

[sperry8]

exodusing-
Our brick and mortar bank gives a monthly statement which shows each category requirement for free checking and how it was met. Each direct deposit counts toward the requirement. For us that is bond interest, dividends, and royalties. It does not have to be W2 wages or SS.

If you get a monthly statement like this it will be easy to see what qualifies as an "Enhanced Direct Deposit".

I can't even find a way to download a checking acct statement from Citi's website!
No matter which statement link I choose - it always shows me my Citi cc statement. Oh how Citi is frustrating!

the online transaction area shows my manually pushed monies as "ACH Electronic Credit". Hopefully as the other poster said, that will count as an EDD deposit.

I had never tried to download my checking account statement until just now, and was able to do so easily, even using Safari which some sites do not like.

If you click on checking account first, it will automatically go to checking account statements but allows the option in a pulldown menu to choose CC or savings, etc.

Is there a chance that you need to update your OS?

I have my frustrations with Citi but their online platform seems to work for me. I detest the endless ads/offers that I have to decline before accessing my account, but otherwise I am happy with their platform.

Logged in, clicked "checking" on the left hand sider from the boxes avail. The right hand side then shows "Checking-XXXX" and then on the lower right hand side it shows a box saying "I want to..." and one of the options is "view statements". The statements link pops up a statements view and the only view is for my credit card.

Is this how you're viewing your checking acct statement?

No, I can see checking statement either when I click checking on the sidebar on the left OR if I click view statements while in All Accounts. The pulldown menu appears in both options. I can then view in PDF or download.

I just logged back in to confirm that the download worked and it did. I was also able to toggle to CC or savings, and view and download those statements also.

Have you checked to confirm your system is up to date?

Also, I am doing all of this on a desktop--not the phone. I have never tried viewing on the phone so perhaps that is the difference?

Right, I can see the view of All Statements while in All Accounts as well. Regardless of browser or app (tried them all) it only shows me my credit card statement (as though this is the only product it believes I have). I cannot see my savings or checking account statements at all - and there is no pull down or scroll option when viewing All Statements, just defaults to my cc statement and that is all. Must be a bug in Citi - I apparently will have to call to have it fixed. ugh

EDIT: ouch Citi phone service is horrible, the automated system won't let me out of it because it doesn't recognize my atm cards last 4 digits. I'd love to make a call with the Citi CEO on the line with me so he can see how awful his phone system is

[CletusCaddy]

How much is the monthly fee if you don’t have $30k in the account? A 2 year Treasury note pays roughly 5%, that’s $3K in interest they won’t be getting. The reason for the new requirement is to obtain cheap deposits and the hope that customers aren’t savvy enough to leave the bank, the inconvenience factor you know.

For fees, see the OP and links.

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

Leaving a large balance made more sense in the recent era of minimal interest rates. Making this change will likely cause at least some people to notice interest rates are higher and Citi balances at almost 0% are costly.

This just seems like a hassle to me. Personally, I’d just open an account some place where it’s always free. In my case, I use a credit union. But maybe Citibank is offering some other great thing that justifies the hoops you could jump through.

I am not aware of ANY bank checking account that would pay as much as my Vanguard money market fund.
Hence I will never leave much of a balance in a checking account.
Hence I will always use ACH to deposit cash to any checking account just in time before bills are due.
I have had automated withdrawals from Vanguard to Citi in place long before this change.
I have another "free" online bank account with decent (for checking) interest and still do not leave much of a balance there.
It still pays about 1/10th what Vanguard mmkt funds pay.
Any cash in that account is also deposited either with ACH or mobile paper check deposits.

This change by Citibank actually simplified the ability to get no fee checking.
Before you need ACH AND electronic bill payments, now only ACH, no bill pay required.
And in the past they have counted every and all sources of ACH, just not checks and internal transfers, same as going forward.

This is really a non-issue for most customers, except those who kept a large balance and never deposited from any other institution.
For those customers only, now they have to leave an even bigger balance. But that is not something I would recommend, unless it's at Citi brokerage holding ETFs for instance. Any deposit product they have is just terrible in terms of rates. Why keep a balance in their bank products ?

Credit union is the answer here.

My credit union pays 4% on checking with a $25k+ balance and $500/month in spend on their credit card (which earns 2% cashback on everything, no annual fee).

It keeps me from feeling guilty about leaving money in checking and saves me the headache of sweeping out excess money into brokerage.

[beyou]

How much is the monthly fee if you don’t have $30k in the account? A 2 year Treasury note pays roughly 5%, that’s $3K in interest they won’t be getting. The reason for the new requirement is to obtain cheap deposits and the hope that customers aren’t savvy enough to leave the bank, the inconvenience factor you know.

For fees, see the OP and links.

You can maintain a zero balance so long as you make $250/month in Enhanced Direct Deposits, which appear to be any deposits through the ACH.

Leaving a large balance made more sense in the recent era of minimal interest rates. Making this change will likely cause at least some people to notice interest rates are higher and Citi balances at almost 0% are costly.

This just seems like a hassle to me. Personally, I’d just open an account some place where it’s always free. In my case, I use a credit union. But maybe Citibank is offering some other great thing that justifies the hoops you could jump through.

I am not aware of ANY bank checking account that would pay as much as my Vanguard money market fund.
Hence I will never leave much of a balance in a checking account.
Hence I will always use ACH to deposit cash to any checking account just in time before bills are due.
I have had automated withdrawals from Vanguard to Citi in place long before this change.
I have another "free" online bank account with decent (for checking) interest and still do not leave much of a balance there.
It still pays about 1/10th what Vanguard mmkt funds pay.
Any cash in that account is also deposited either with ACH or mobile paper check deposits.

This change by Citibank actually simplified the ability to get no fee checking.
Before you need ACH AND electronic bill payments, now only ACH, no bill pay required.
And in the past they have counted every and all sources of ACH, just not checks and internal transfers, same as going forward.

This is really a non-issue for most customers, except those who kept a large balance and never deposited from any other institution.
For those customers only, now they have to leave an even bigger balance. But that is not something I would recommend, unless it's at Citi brokerage holding ETFs for instance. Any deposit product they have is just terrible in terms of rates. Why keep a balance in their bank products ?

Credit union is the answer here.

My credit union pays 4% on checking with a $25k+ balance and $500/month in spend on their credit card (which earns 2% cashback on everything, no annual fee).

It keeps me from feeling guilty about leaving money in checking and saves me the headache of sweeping out excess money into brokerage.

What credit union and where ?
Not aware of any with 4% checking accts around where I live.

Even so, I can get a higher yield on many ETFs in any brokerage, and in savings bonds. 4% would be good for checking, but I wouldn’t want to keep $25k in any checking acct. Not just because I can do better than 4% but also for security. With check washing, debit card fraud, ach pulls, I would never keep much in a checking acct no matter what rate they pay me. And do not want complexity/obligation of required recurring spend on their cc. Instead of $25k there can keep $30k at citi brokerage and keep zero in checking, and I still have a 2% cc without obligation to use it. Citi also throws in free checks, free certified checks, free stop payment on checks. A truly free checking acct. The only interest for me would be potentially for better customer service. Citi does have mostly bad service, except the branch in-person service.