Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

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ichee_marone
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Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by ichee_marone »

Pralana Gold's creator (Stuart Matthews) says the web version will be ready by mid-January and beta testing starts in December. Pricing will be annual with an option of not saving your data on the web.

:D
stan1
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by stan1 »

He's been writing about it for a long time. One month of beta seems ... well ... short but we shall see.

Curious what it will look like, and whether he is trying to go head to head with New Retirement in terms of a more friendly interface without quirky spreadsheet behaviors. Or, if he will try to keep as much visibility and transparency into the data typical in a spreadsheet format.

As for subscription its pretty much a fact of life these days that commercial software needs an ongoing revenue stream to keep it current and supported, especially on a project like this where tax laws and other changes can have huge impact. Also don't want a repeat of i-ORP where the site owner's health declined and didn't have anyone lined up to take it over. Mr. Matthews is running this as a business not an open source project.
Exchme
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Exchme »

This is what Stuart posted on the Pralana forum about enhancements to expect in the web version.

Much more flexibility in the quantity of things such as income streams, expense items, accounts, etc., and most fixed-size inputs tables have been eliminated

Ability to specify ROR in terms of real or nominal values

Ability to use more than just stocks and bonds asset classes when using global asset allocation mode

Ability to specify annual increase of income streams in terms of real or nominal values, thus allowing them to be tied to inflation if desired (thus improving historic analysis)

Ability to automatically adjust the value of a pension (annuity or lump sum) based on your retirement date

One-month granularity in specifying Social Security start age

Improved ability to compute your earliest safe retirement date by doing better modeling of income and expense streams as a function of your retirement date

Improved optimization of Roth conversions

No more circular reference issues relative to computing taxes on unscheduled withdrawals in the year they occur

Faster Monte Carlo and historical analyses

Robust canned tabular projections rather than the flexible tabular projections of the Excel model

PDF reports can be wider than one page

User manual will be integrated with the operational tool

You’ll always be running the most current version with no more requirement to do downloads, imports and exports


Some of these would only be possible by getting rid of the spreadsheet engine. For me enhancing the tax module so taxes on asset sales occur in the year of the sale (which would have otherwise led to circular references in a spreadsheet) is big. For newcomers, having the manual built in should be a great help. On the point of product continuity, Stuart brought on a partner (coming up on two years ago?) who has web programming chops to undertake this and eventually Stuart will hand over the reins. That should ensure the product will be around for a long time.
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ichee_marone
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by ichee_marone »

I'm really looking forward to this.
Hillview
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Hillview »

Does anyone know if the new version (web based) is out yet? I think it is NOT but wanted to double check -- they have tutorials that show the web version but the release notes don't seem to say it is out yet and their website doesn't say "new version" etc. Thanks!

ETA: It says now it will be march so I will be waiting!
Vagabond17
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Vagabond17 »

Bumping this up to see if anyone has an update on when online version will go live? Also, subscription cost? Thanks!
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by mkc »

Vagabond17 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:09 pm Bumping this up to see if anyone has an update on when online version will go live? Also, subscription cost? Thanks!
Your best bet is to follow Pralana Consulting's forum, specifically the Announcements section https://pralanaretirementcalculator.com ... ain-forum/

This is from the Pralana Newsletter at the end of January:
Pralana Online is On Track for a Late-March Release

Work continues on Pralana Online and I think we are on track for a release in late March. It will do virtually everything Pralana Gold 2024 does and more, and with a more friendly user interface. Enhancements will be made regularly and will be transparent (no longer need to download and then import your data).

Pricing

Pralana pricing has been held constant for many years and well below our primary competitors, but Pralana Online will be priced closer to the competition.

Pralana Online will be offered as an annual subscription at two pricing levels: Platinum for individuals and Platinum Pro for advisors with up to 25 clients (we’ll address higher client loads when appropriate).

A Platinum subscription will be $119 for the first year and then $89 for annual renewals, but discounts will be available for folks with an active license for PRC2023 or PRC2024 Gold. The first-year cost for users going directly from PRC2023 Gold to Platinum will be $89 and, for a limited time, the first-year cost for users going from PRC2024 Gold to Platinum will be just $40. Subsequent renewals will be $89.

A Platinum Pro subscription will be $399 for the first year and then $349 for annual renewals, but discounts will be available for folks with an active license for PRC2023 or PRC2024 Gold. The first-year cost for users going directly from PRC2023 Gold to Platinum Pro will be $349 and, for a limited time, the first-year cost for users going from PRC2024 Gold to Platinum will be just $310. Subsequent renewals will be $349.

Folks who made a full-price purchase of PRC2023 after October 1 get a free upgrade to PRC2024, so their total cost of getting to a Platinum subscription is just $139 ($99 for PRC2023 + $0 for the PRC2024 upgrade + $40 for the Platinum upgrade).

Thanks for reading and please stay tuned for future updates.
Stuart Matthews
stan1
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by stan1 »

Vagabond17 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:09 pm Bumping this up to see if anyone has an update on when online version will go live? Also, subscription cost? Thanks!
The website still says March, 2024. Pricing is not posted that I've seen.
https://pralanaretirementcalculator.com/get-prc/
Vagabond17
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Vagabond17 »

Thanks mkc (will do) & stan1!
buckeye7983
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Pralana web version cost

Post by buckeye7983 »

[This thread has been merged into this on-going discussion. Moderator Pops1860]

Any info (or predictions) on cost of the web version of the Pralana Retirement Calculator?

Will you purchase it?

Thanks!
:sharebeer
stan1
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Re: Pralana web version cost

Post by stan1 »

Discussed in this thread, where one poster references a newsletter announcement from the Pralana founder.
viewtopic.php?t=416310

I expect I will buy it, I'm interested to see how the spreadsheet to web conversion goes but having tried several tools (paid and free) at this time Pralana Gold spreadsheet is my preferred choice for my needs. I don't expect there will be one tool that is the best choice for everyone.
stan1
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by stan1 »

How does one subscribe to the Pralana newsletter? I don't see an option to do that from their website (I have a login since I've purchased Gold in the past).
Lastrun
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Lastrun »

Just got an email, delayed until May, sigh. But it is important to get it right. Appreciate the update and honesty.
hale2
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by hale2 »

Web version was just released. Will be initially limited to 100 subscribers.
stan1
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by stan1 »

hale2 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 5:03 pm Web version was just released. Will be initially limited to 100 subscribers.
Did you get in? Waiting eagerly to see what people think. Converting a complex spreadsheet to a web interface is not as easy as it sounds, and they seemed to indicate that they were intending to have more transparency than for example NewRetirement has where you enter inputs and then see final product estimates and graphics on the back side.
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by smitcat »

hale2 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 5:03 pm Web version was just released. Will be initially limited to 100 subscribers.
It is limited to about 100 existing users of Pralana - not new subscribers.
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ichee_marone
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by ichee_marone »

I did go through the ordering process for Pralana Online and noticed my renewal would be 7/8/2025. Don't think I'll beta test without an extended renewal date. I've asked Stuart for that just now. :)
Circle the Wagons
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Circle the Wagons »

It's looking great to me. They're still working out some bugs, but the overall feel is very similar to Gold. Some new features (tax forms and MRI are great) and the optimizations run faster. And I suspect it'll only become more stable and feature rich over time.
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Hillview »

any idea of general release date?
Exchme
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Exchme »

stan1 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 5:36 pm
hale2 wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2024 5:03 pm Web version was just released. Will be initially limited to 100 subscribers.
Did you get in? Waiting eagerly to see what people think. Converting a complex spreadsheet to a web interface is not as easy as it sounds, and they seemed to indicate that they were intending to have more transparency than for example NewRetirement has where you enter inputs and then see final product estimates and graphics on the back side.
It will import your old export file, though you do need to verify that you are getting the same results. But the import should make it painless to migrate over and then you can simply export your file at any time. It is a different file format, so you can't go backwards and import an Online file into Excel.

Fields that used to have a limited number of inputs are now flexible. So enter as many income sources, properties you own, number of different times to change returns or inflation adjustments, how often you wish to change asset allocations, or expenses, etc.

I like the new metric MRI, where under Review-Balance Sheet, you can click on a number on the table and it will show you the ins and outs for that during the year. Some fields like Unrealized Capital Gains, you would not readily be able to work out yourself without the numbers.

The optimizers do a better job of showing their work. For instance, so if you optimize account withdrawal order, it will automatically divide up your time periods into pre and post RMDs and then try all the orders of account withdrawal for each period. If you have taxable and Roth plus each have a tax deferred account, it is checking taxable, plus each have IRAs and Roth IRAs and maybe inherited IRAs, the permutations it is checking run into the hundreds or thousands - it creates a table showing the estate value for each case.

For things like SS benefits, you now can select your claim month and the optimizer works on a monthly basis. I was modeling a case where my wife had claimed and I passed before achieving my FRA and was surprised to see it immediately switch my wife to survivor benefits, the spreadsheet didn't do that.

The input for Roth Conversions is more efficient in that if you are converting to the same target year in multiple years, you don't do anything, it will repeat the input in subsequent years (so if you want it to stop, the last one should have No Conversions)

I haven't reviewed the tax forms in detail (not every possible form is included of course), but it's awesome that the common ones are included, it's easy to see if it is interpreting your tax situation the way you intend.

Now if you need help, hit Ctrl-f (Cmd-f on a Mac) and searchable help pops up, or the user manual is available with the click of a button.

Lots to like!
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by stan1 »

Exchme wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:57 pm Lots to like!
Great news, thanks for being an early adopter and the first to report back, I'm very glad you like it and glad they took the time to get it right.

Having retired from W-2 work in 2024 I'm sure I will subscribe and use it at least for a few years. We aren't really Roth Conversion candidates due to a military pension but we are going to do some withdrawals to enjoy life.
Lastrun
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Lastrun »

Exchme wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 8:57 pm ...... So enter as many income sources, properties you own, number of different times to change returns or inflation adjustments, how often you wish to change asset allocations, or expenses, etc.
.....
Thanks so much for this report. The income source limitations were my biggest roadblock with using the prior version and am looking forward to new version.
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Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by elcadarj »

[Merged - moderator Kendall]

I'm a Pralana Gold user and it's time for my midyear update. I can't upgrade to the online version yet, I missed the trial user window. According to the website:
"As stated in the Forum, we enabled upgrades to Pralana Online for a brief period until reaching 100 users. We have reached that level as of July 8 and the upgrade buttons have temporarily been removed. We need some time to address the feedback from these users and to monitor how the system performs under this load before opening up sales again to additional users. Thanks for your understanding."

Has anyone been successful in getting into the trial population, and if so, is it worthwhile to hold off on my midyear update until they re-enable upgrades to the online version?
stan1
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by stan1 »

Please see this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=416310

Personally, I would wait unless I had an immediate need to use it within the next few months.
smitcat
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by smitcat »

We are Pralana users and see no reason to wait for the online version.
- we prefer to have the program in our hands and not on the web
- the existing Pralana program will be updated thru next year and will be useable as is
- we can compare our past Pralana runs with our new runs
- we know the existing product well
- there is no compelling cost reason to wait
- we will happily base decisions on the web versions AFTER we know all of the bugs are out

FWIW - we do have the new version but will not use it for this years models/decisions
YMMV
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by Kendall »

elcadarj's post has been merged into the existing discussion.
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Re: Pralana Gold moving to web-based subscription

Post by elcadarj »

Thanks for merging.

After reviewing this thread, I'm going to update my excel version since the work updating my inputs won't be wasted. Also, having updated excel results will be useful in evaluating the online version.
stan1
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by stan1 »

smitcat wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:59 am We are Pralana users and see no reason to wait for the online version.
- we prefer to have the program in our hands and not on the web
- the existing Pralana program will be updated thru next year and will be useable as is
- we can compare our past Pralana runs with our new runs
- we know the existing product well
- there is no compelling cost reason to wait
- we will happily base decisions on the web versions AFTER we know all of the bugs are out

FWIW - we do have the new version but will not use it for this years models/decisions
YMMV
I'm a little concerned about data breaches with a two person company. They will do the best they can, but net worth and account balances associated with email address are personal information that for me personally I don't think has been breached yet and could lead to being targeted for other attacks. Dividing assets by 10 doesn't work with taxation. Can enter data then delete it, but the data is likely retained in backups.
smitcat
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by smitcat »

stan1 wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:07 am
smitcat wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:59 am We are Pralana users and see no reason to wait for the online version.
- we prefer to have the program in our hands and not on the web
- the existing Pralana program will be updated thru next year and will be useable as is
- we can compare our past Pralana runs with our new runs
- we know the existing product well
- there is no compelling cost reason to wait
- we will happily base decisions on the web versions AFTER we know all of the bugs are out

FWIW - we do have the new version but will not use it for this years models/decisions
YMMV
I'm a little concerned about data breaches with a two person company. They will do the best they can, but net worth and account balances associated with email address are personal information that for me personally I don't think has been breached yet and could lead to being targeted for other attacks. Dividing assets by 10 doesn't work with taxation. Can enter data then delete it, but the data is likely retained in backups.
I do hear you but we are not so concerned wih security.
Circle the Wagons
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by Circle the Wagons »

elcadarj wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:03 am [Merged - moderator Kendall]

I'm a Pralana Gold user and it's time for my midyear update. I can't upgrade to the online version yet, I missed the trial user window. According to the website:
"As stated in the Forum, we enabled upgrades to Pralana Online for a brief period until reaching 100 users. We have reached that level as of July 8 and the upgrade buttons have temporarily been removed. We need some time to address the feedback from these users and to monitor how the system performs under this load before opening up sales again to additional users. Thanks for your understanding."

Has anyone been successful in getting into the trial population, and if so, is it worthwhile to hold off on my midyear update until they re-enable upgrades to the online version?
Just one opinion: the online version is a step-change improvement. And I considered myself a relative power user of the Excel version before.

The new features are great, but even more so, the speed and ease of flipping through screens and running optimizations (once you get used to the new interface) enhances the ability to pressure test with different scenarios, therefore improving understanding of the overall financial situation. There are even some legacy features that I clearly wasn't maximizing the use of, because I used to find them onerous.
smitcat
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by smitcat »

Circle the Wagons wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:21 pm
elcadarj wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:03 am [Merged - moderator Kendall]

I'm a Pralana Gold user and it's time for my midyear update. I can't upgrade to the online version yet, I missed the trial user window. According to the website:
"As stated in the Forum, we enabled upgrades to Pralana Online for a brief period until reaching 100 users. We have reached that level as of July 8 and the upgrade buttons have temporarily been removed. We need some time to address the feedback from these users and to monitor how the system performs under this load before opening up sales again to additional users. Thanks for your understanding."

Has anyone been successful in getting into the trial population, and if so, is it worthwhile to hold off on my midyear update until they re-enable upgrades to the online version?
Just one opinion: the online version is a step-change improvement. And I considered myself a relative power user of the Excel version before.

The new features are great, but even more so, the speed and ease of flipping through screens and running optimizations (once you get used to the new interface) enhances the ability to pressure test with different scenarios, therefore improving understanding of the overall financial situation. There are even some legacy features that I clearly wasn't maximizing the use of, because I used to find them onerous.
Could you please confirm that your new runs with the web version and your old inputs completely match your old runs with the excel version.
Exchme
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by Exchme »

stan1 wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:07 am
smitcat wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:59 am We are Pralana users and see no reason to wait for the online version.
- we prefer to have the program in our hands and not on the web
- the existing Pralana program will be updated thru next year and will be useable as is
- we can compare our past Pralana runs with our new runs
- we know the existing product well
- there is no compelling cost reason to wait
- we will happily base decisions on the web versions AFTER we know all of the bugs are out

FWIW - we do have the new version but will not use it for this years models/decisions
YMMV
I'm a little concerned about data breaches with a two person company. They will do the best they can, but net worth and account balances associated with email address are personal information that for me personally I don't think has been breached yet and could lead to being targeted for other attacks. Dividing assets by 10 doesn't work with taxation. Can enter data then delete it, but the data is likely retained in backups.
You will be able to export your data to your computer, delete anything online and reimport when you log in.
Circle the Wagons
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by Circle the Wagons »

smitcat wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:14 pm
Circle the Wagons wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:21 pm
elcadarj wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:03 am [Merged - moderator Kendall]

I'm a Pralana Gold user and it's time for my midyear update. I can't upgrade to the online version yet, I missed the trial user window. According to the website:
"As stated in the Forum, we enabled upgrades to Pralana Online for a brief period until reaching 100 users. We have reached that level as of July 8 and the upgrade buttons have temporarily been removed. We need some time to address the feedback from these users and to monitor how the system performs under this load before opening up sales again to additional users. Thanks for your understanding."

Has anyone been successful in getting into the trial population, and if so, is it worthwhile to hold off on my midyear update until they re-enable upgrades to the online version?
Just one opinion: the online version is a step-change improvement. And I considered myself a relative power user of the Excel version before.

The new features are great, but even more so, the speed and ease of flipping through screens and running optimizations (once you get used to the new interface) enhances the ability to pressure test with different scenarios, therefore improving understanding of the overall financial situation. There are even some legacy features that I clearly wasn't maximizing the use of, because I used to find them onerous.
Could you please confirm that your new runs with the web version and your old inputs completely match your old runs with the excel version.
They've made a few improvements (all noted in the release notes), so it won't match exactly. But close with exact same inputs.
smitcat
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by smitcat »

Circle the Wagons wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:21 pm
smitcat wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:14 pm
Circle the Wagons wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 1:21 pm
elcadarj wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:03 am [Merged - moderator Kendall]

I'm a Pralana Gold user and it's time for my midyear update. I can't upgrade to the online version yet, I missed the trial user window. According to the website:
"As stated in the Forum, we enabled upgrades to Pralana Online for a brief period until reaching 100 users. We have reached that level as of July 8 and the upgrade buttons have temporarily been removed. We need some time to address the feedback from these users and to monitor how the system performs under this load before opening up sales again to additional users. Thanks for your understanding."

Has anyone been successful in getting into the trial population, and if so, is it worthwhile to hold off on my midyear update until they re-enable upgrades to the online version?
Just one opinion: the online version is a step-change improvement. And I considered myself a relative power user of the Excel version before.

The new features are great, but even more so, the speed and ease of flipping through screens and running optimizations (once you get used to the new interface) enhances the ability to pressure test with different scenarios, therefore improving understanding of the overall financial situation. There are even some legacy features that I clearly wasn't maximizing the use of, because I used to find them onerous.
Could you please confirm that your new runs with the web version and your old inputs completely match your old runs with the excel version.
They've made a few improvements (all noted in the release notes), so it won't match exactly. But close with exact same inputs.
Thank you very much - we are traveling and will not be able to get to this for quite a while.
stan1
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by stan1 »

Exchme wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:18 pm You will be able to export your data to your computer, delete anything online and reimport when you log in.
Yes, I saw they were working on that feature but it is not implemented yet. Hopefully it truly is deleted and not stored in a backup somewhere on a 3rd party cloud server.
tibbitts
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by tibbitts »

stan1 wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:26 pm
Exchme wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:18 pm You will be able to export your data to your computer, delete anything online and reimport when you log in.
Yes, I saw they were working on that feature but it is not implemented yet. Hopefully it truly is deleted and not stored in a backup somewhere on a 3rd party cloud server.
Is the data tied to an actual person, or just a username? If the payment data is segregated, would the effort to map the data to a person be difficult/worth-the-effort?
stan1
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Re: Should I wait for Pralana Online?

Post by stan1 »

tibbitts wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:08 pm
stan1 wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 6:26 pm
Exchme wrote: Fri Jul 12, 2024 3:18 pm You will be able to export your data to your computer, delete anything online and reimport when you log in.
Yes, I saw they were working on that feature but it is not implemented yet. Hopefully it truly is deleted and not stored in a backup somewhere on a 3rd party cloud server.
Is the data tied to an actual person, or just a username? If the payment data is segregated, would the effort to map the data to a person be difficult/worth-the-effort?
Those are the type of concerns that come up with a two person software company (especially if only one is a full stack developer). It's easy to join data using an email address or a user ID number generated by a vendor. The security through obscurity-influenced answer might be that they are so small no one would bother. Still, knowing an email address or cell phone number associated with the details of someone's net worth and income would be relatively high value data. Could lead to targeting for SIM swaps or malicious emails. It's probably low likelihood, but the consequences seem greater than some other data breaches. I am not part of the 100 person beta, so some of my concerns may be addressed when I see what data is being collected. I'm sure they will do the best they can, but even the best engineers make a few mistakes (example LastPass not encrypting URLs and their retention procedures which last I read they still would not elaborate upon).
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