98-year-old breaks lease. What to expect?

[McQ]

For the background, see this thread (with many helpful suggestions from forum members if you have an elderly parent!)viewtopic.php?t=407904

To recap, cousin had to move his elderly Mom from Florida to California and get her into assisted living. She had been in an independent living complex in Florida, doing just fine up until mid-June. Then a couple of falls, and/or a flare up of arthritis, plus maybe pure old age, and of a sudden, in the space of a month, she needed assisted living. Cognitively fine, but the body doesn’t work very well anymore.

Cousin’s siblings put their shoulder to the wheel and team-tagged to keep Mom safe until he could get her on a plane and out to a nice facility near him. Of course, with the added cost, she will run out of money early next year (rather than later next year—independent living wasn’t cheap either). Family will have to fill the gap (and will).

I was speaking with cousin when he disclosed that to get Mom out here in a timely fashion meant breaking the lease.

“Now the corporate owner of the complex tells me she still owes the last two months rent, about $7,000 total. I left the apartment vacant and clean at the end of the 10th month. I know the lease applies nonetheless,* but I can’t see sending 25% of her remaining assets to the facility for [profanity omitted here]. She’s out of state now, with no assets in Florida, what can they do?”

*Florida law allows no exceptions to lease terms for medical reasons.

Hmmm … I’m not an attorney and I’ve never had to break a lease. But I worry cousin is being over-optimistic about how bad this affair could get. Mom’s doing well in the new facility now that she gets the care she needs, and the family reasonably hopes she will be around for another year or two or three.

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

[Cruise]

Was anyone else named on the lease as a financial guarantor ?

[arcticpineapplecorp.]

so she has $28,000 left and will run out in January?

If so, and if the landlord sues and gets judgement against her if there are no assets to go after (if Judgement is after Jan) I'd say the landlord can't collect, with one exception.

I asked mcgoogle if SS can be garnished for failure to pay rent and the answer I got was:

SS payments can't be garnished, but, if they have them deposited in a bank, that account can be IF they have comingled funds with any other money on deposits, they bank will know and likely abide by any judgment presented.

source: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52 ... l-security

now if her income goes to a resident trust fund at the facility and the income is handed over to the facility immediately, I don't see how there's anything to garnish.

if POA is willing to represent her in court and explain the situation (gave as much notice as possible, paid up through date left, no damages, etc) you could get a judge who's favorable to the 98 year old and find in her favor.

IANAL.

[randomguy]

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

Probably sells it to some debt collection agency who will spend a bunch of time trying to get money out of you. Their ability to garnish things like SS is a very limited in most cases once her assets go to zero. I am not sure what your legal fees will be to handle this.

[LotsaGray]

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

Probably sells it to some debt collection agency who will spend a bunch of time trying to get money out of you. Their ability to garnish things like SS is a very limited in most cases once her assets go to zero. I am not sure what your legal fees will be to handle this.

If the assets they can touch are zero it becomes blood from a turnip. Collection agency can place all the liens they wish but again if no assets to attach those liens are worthless. In fact unless collection agency has standing contract to take all of this companies bad debts, they might say we don’t want it since rocovery will be zero. Those collectors know these laws well and know 2hen the chance of recovery is nil.

[prd1982]

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

Probably sells it to some debt collection agency who will spend a bunch of time trying to get money out of you. Their ability to garnish things like SS is a very limited in most cases once her assets go to zero. I am not sure what your legal fees will be to handle this.

You can also assume the new bill will include lawyer fees, late fees, etc., and be much more than 7k. I’m not suggesting you pay them, but the “fight” will be over more than 7k.

[Sandtrap]

For the background, see this thread (with many helpful suggestions from forum members if you have an elderly parent!)viewtopic.php?t=407904

To recap, cousin had to move his elderly Mom from Florida to California and get her into assisted living. She had been in an independent living complex in Florida, doing just fine up until mid-June. Then a couple of falls, and/or a flare up of arthritis, plus maybe pure old age, and of a sudden, in the space of a month, she needed assisted living. Cognitively fine, but the body doesn’t work very well anymore.

Cousin’s siblings put their shoulder to the wheel and team-tagged to keep Mom safe until he could get her on a plane and out to a nice facility near him. Of course, with the added cost, she will run out of money early next year (rather than later next year—independent living wasn’t cheap either). Family will have to fill the gap (and will).

I was speaking with cousin when he disclosed that to get Mom out here in a timely fashion meant breaking the lease.

“Now the corporate owner of the complex tells me she still owes the last two months rent, about $7,000 total. I left the apartment vacant and clean at the end of the 10th month. I know the lease applies nonetheless,* but I can’t see sending 25% of her remaining assets to the facility for [profanity omitted here]. She’s out of state now, with no assets in Florida, what can they do?”

*Florida law allows no exceptions to lease terms for medical reasons.

Hmmm … I’m not an attorney and I’ve never had to break a lease. But I worry cousin is being over-optimistic about how bad this affair could get. Mom’s doing well in the new facility now that she gets the care she needs, and the family reasonably hopes she will be around for another year or two or three.

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

to op:
**depending on the nature and size, etc, of the "corporate owner of the rental complex", and/or property management company (if small or corporate, or just a leasing agent, etc).
**depending on the exact lease agreement, landlord tenant code of the state/region, etc.

Many experienced rental complex and multi unit owners, and large rental building owners, that own and manage a lot of "doors" have learned that there's not much sense in putting out "x" amount of time, and legal costs, etc, to pursue matters like this farther than passing it along either in singles or bundles to a "collection agency". There, it's assumed that collection of any kind happens rarely, and if so, half or more is the "skim".
So....it is better to put efforts in to reducing turnover time and re rent the unit asap after renov etc.
And, rarely, there are newbie property owners and prop mgt "companies" and "leasing agents" who haven't learned yet that it will take 90 cents of effort and legal costs, etc, to recover a dollar.

It is up to you to send the required funds and put it in the past, or set the funds aside, should it be needed, or try best to ignore the collection notices, phone calls, etc, for as long as they are kept up.
If you do get notices from legal counsel letterhead, then take them to your own legal counsel and discuss the matter. In the worse case, for some reason, you do not want to owe multiples of the claim if that's possible, and it is possible. IANAL.

From a business owner, and property mgt company, and multi unit buildings owner's POV, I would not give this any effort and, in fact, if the tenant was known well and had a long tenancy, I would send a letter resulving any issues and wishing the family well (I've done this, often).

Your choices are there.
j

[niagara_guy]

I think the rules vary by state, I am not a lawyer. Let's say that the apartment market is good, so the unit will not be vacant long. In that case, I assume that the landlord can only get paid for the time the unit is empty assuming landlord is working hard to rent unit. Of course, the landlord will ask for all the remaining months in the lease and will probably then rent it out right away and get paid twice.

I know a couple that was in similar situation, he got laid off and took a job out of state, the landlord demanded all the rent due in the lease, they paid it. Rental market was good, landlord probably rented out the unit right away and got paid twice.

If I had to pay the remaining rent I would not surrender the keys until the lease was up. Or, you could try to negotiate with the landlord.

For a friend, we hired a fiduciary to handle his finances, shut down his business, etc. he also negotiated with the rehab facility and saved way more than his cost. PM me and I will give you his contact info.

[London]

98 year old is effectively judgement proof.

[uaeebs86]

I know a couple that was in similar situation, he got laid off and took a job out of state, the landlord demanded all the rent due in the lease, they paid it. Rental market was good, landlord probably rented out the unit right away and got paid twice.

If I had to pay the remaining rent I would not surrender the keys until the lease was up. Or, you could try to negotiate with the landlord.

My daughter/SIL had the exact opposite happen and I couldn't figure out why the apartment complex didn't try to get double rent.

They moved out of state and had the apartment empty and cleaned out two months before the end of the lease. They told the complex they would pay the final two months of rent. The complex insisted they come back and turn over the keys in person at the end of the lease, rather then letting them turn them in and renting the apartment out for those two months. SMH

[nonnie]

Below is from this website:
https://bals.org/help/resources/tenants ... 0Writ%20of

As it is an independent living community, it may take more time than in a regular apartment to re rent but I'm not sure how that affects this case. Here are some questions:
Did she have to pay any other fees when she moved to this community? Generally there are some fees, a community fee? An entrance fee? Was there a security deposit?

If no one else cosigned and is not responsible for these fees, I would probably follow the advice of previous commenters, not much to worry about. Creditors and collection agencies may threatened dire consequences but have little legal standing to back it up.
https://www.moneymanagement.org/blog/wh ... 20Security

"Breaking Your Lease
If you are leaving your rented premises before the end of a written lease, be aware that you may be liable to your landlord for unpaid rent due after you have vacated. In order to recover this rent, however, the landlord must file a County Court action against you. If you leave before the end of your written lease, it does not automatically mean that the landlord can keep your security deposit. There are leases that state that the landlord is entitled to keep your security deposit as "liquidated damages” if the tenant leaves the rental dwelling before the lease expires. This kind of lease allows you to break the lease and the landlord is entitled to your deposit, however, it limits your liability for breaking the lease to the amount of your security deposit. It might be a good idea, if you are going to break a lease, to speak with your landlord to see if the landlord will accept your security deposit as your total financial obligation to him or her. If the landlord agrees to this, be sure to obtain a signed agreement to this effect from your landlord.

[randomguy]

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

Probably sells it to some debt collection agency who will spend a bunch of time trying to get money out of you. Their ability to garnish things like SS is a very limited in most cases once her assets go to zero. I am not sure what your legal fees will be to handle this.

If the assets they can touch are zero it becomes blood from a turnip. Collection agency can place all the liens they wish but again if no assets to attach those liens are worthless. In fact unless collection agency has standing contract to take all of this companies bad debts, they might say we don’t want it since rocovery will be zero. Those collectors know these laws well and know 2hen the chance of recovery is nil.

Sounds like if she dies in the next 6 months or so they get their money. I am sure they have the math on what they need to do to optimize their return.

I am not suggesting paying it. But I could easy see getting hassled for this for half a decade.

[snackdog]

What does your attorney say?

[single2019]

What does your attorney say?

Do all 98 year olds with $2800 in assets have an attorney?

[Dottie57]

What does your attorney say?

Do all 98 year olds with $2800 in assets have an attorney?

I doubt it it is on their radar.

[placeholder]

What does your attorney say?

Do all 98 year olds with $2800 in assets have an attorney?

I doubt it it is on their radar.

"Good news I have determined that you have nothing to worry about oh and here's my bill for $2800."

[Cobra Commander]

A few thoughts. Consider asking for advice and counsel from a Legal Services organization in Florida. Housing is usually one of the issues they handle as is elder law issues. With her low assets and no income she should qualify.

To sue her they have to find her to serve her. For normal people this is relatively easy but for an elderly person without credit cards or utility bills this can be much more difficult.

What is her plan when she runs out of money now? What is the consequence of paying the landlord and running out of money sooner? Conversely, by the time they find her, sue her, obtain a judgment and move to garnish her assets she will be out of money. Further to my first suggestion ask the legal services attorney for advice on protecting her SS payments. Also, when she runs out of assets maybe she should file for bankruptcy to discharge the $7K debt. I guess you have to see how much a bankruptcy attorney would charge for what seems like a fairly straightforward case. Legal services might handle this too, some of them do bankruptcy in connection with elder law services.

[pennywise]

I would not ordinarily suggest doing this, but it might be worth a little Google research to find a local TV or newspaper in the community where she was living.

If they have a consumer affairs specialist which many do, contact them with a brief summary of the story.

A 98 year-old who has lived independently up till a few months ago then needs assisted living getting dunned for a quarter of her entire net worth is a golden ticket for a very sympathetic presentation.

You may not want to go that route, but just saying that if you are looking for an option where the problem disappears, the corporate entity getting that kind of PR attack may very well decide it is more than worth it in goodwill to simply write off the debt.

[windaar]

I know the lease applies nonetheless,* but I can’t see sending 25% of her remaining assets to the facility

This is one of the many pitfalls of being a landlord. People sign leases and then magically think that they don't have to follow what they signed.

[quantAndHold]

I know the lease applies nonetheless,* but I can’t see sending 25% of her remaining assets to the facility

This is one of the many pitfalls of being a landlord. People sign leases and then magically think that they don't have to follow what they signed.

Landlords usually have more assets than renters, who are often living month to month, don’t have any other assets, and are breaking the lease because they have to, not because of some sort of moral failing. Landlords need to assume that once a tenant leaves, regardless of what the lease says, if they get another penny, it’s gravy.

Anyway, with a 98 year old who effectively has no assets, and who’s moved to another state, I would just ignore it, and work on protecting the Social Security from garnishment. IF they sue, by the time it all plays out, the 98 year old will be judgement proof.

[WillRetire]

I am not an attorney nor a landlord. A quick search on the internet suggests that some disabilities are valid reasons for a tenant to terminate a lease.

I would start with a short but formal letter to the the landlord explaining the tenant is 98 years old and due to [physical and mental] disabilities is unable to SAFELY remain in that apartment. A letter from her physician might help too. But honestly, her age speaks for itself.

Put it in writing, and retain a copy of course. The letter serves as notice, and to document the woman's age (98!!) and her loss of capability. That letter also makes her more than just any some random tenant trying to save a few bucks. She's 98!!! And cannot live there safely due to loss of capability.

Only a monster would seek payment from her.

[JoMoney]

Sounds like she's effectively "judgement proof".
Yes, she owes the money, but she doesn't have it. Maybe it looks like she (temporarily) has the cash but I agree with OP with what the priorities should be for whatever remnants might currently be there. The landlord isn't at the top of the list here.
If a particularly aggressive landlord goes through the efforts of getting a judgement and trying to collect against her social security being deposited in a bank account, there are ways to stop that. Up to 2 months of SS deposits should be protected,
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia ... ounts.html
Depending on the state, there may be other exemptions available, also depending on the state may depend on how much effort she has to go through to claim any such exemptions (whether they can be applied automatically repeatedly, or if she would have to stay on top of filing the exemption over and over again, and dealing with funds temporarily being "frozen". Some people in such situations wind up operating on a mostly cash basis, cashing checks or withdrawing deposits quickly, rather than having to deal with the paperwork process of claiming exemptions.
Because the amounts are low enough to fall into small claims, I don't think it would be "too small to be worth the legal costs to go after it". It's likely a corporate landlord already knows the process and has people and processes to pursue it to the extent they can, once they figure out there's nothing for them to easily collect against the debt could get sold off to third party collectors that specialize in aggressively trying to collect.

[snackdog]

What does your attorney say?

Do all 98 year olds with $2800 in assets have an attorney?

I thought it was $28,000, which wasn’t enough to cover her rent another year….

[hand]

Consider looking at this problem from an alternate angle.

Is the legacy facility market rate or perhaps rent controlled and below market?
What would it take the legacy facility to evict the 98 yr old?

Rather than moving out and turning the space back, the 98 year old may be within their rights to maintain the property as a residence until evicted at a cost and hassle to the landlord. In that context a cost free early termination of the lease may be in the interest of both parties.

[randomguy]

A few thoughts. Consider asking for advice and counsel from a Legal Services organization in Florida. Housing is usually one of the issues they handle as is elder law issues. With her low assets and no income she should qualify.

To sue her they have to find her to serve her. For normal people this is relatively easy but for an elderly person without credit cards or utility bills this can be much more difficult.

What is her plan when she runs out of money now? What is the consequence of paying the landlord and running out of money sooner? Conversely, by the time they find her, sue her, obtain a judgment and move to garnish her assets she will be out of money. Further to my first suggestion ask the legal services attorney for advice on protecting her SS payments. Also, when she runs out of assets maybe she should file for bankruptcy to discharge the $7K debt. I guess you have to see how much a bankruptcy attorney would charge for what seems like a fairly straightforward case. Legal services might handle this too, some of them do bankruptcy in connection with elder law services.

With a 98 year old with no money, I think you skip the bankruptcy and let the estate deal with it. if she dies in like 2 months, you end up having to pay say 10k out. If she lives 9 months, she is more or less judgement proof. In the ideal world you would have some free resources to give out legal advice to her. You could ask the new place if they are aware of any to help out.

There is always talking to them and trying to explain that she is basically broke and convincing them to just drop it. I wouldnt count on that having a ton go success. But maybe they have some procedure for it.

As far as being a pitfall of being a landlord. This is why you don''t rent to people with no income or assets. I am amazed they found a place to take her in. I sort of expect there had to be some cosigning involved.

[av111]

I know the lease applies nonetheless,* but I can’t see sending 25% of her remaining assets to the facility

This is one of the many pitfalls of being a landlord. People sign leases and then magically think that they don't have to follow what they signed.

True. Thankfully people don't jump leases that often.

OP

If I were in her shoes, I would stay quiet until they served me. I say this as a landlord. I don't have time to deal with people who jump leases. I just send them a statement showing how the deposit was applied and close my files. Now if they dispute my statement (never happened), I might do more

[McQ]

Was anyone else named on the lease as a financial guarantor ?

Cousin is named, but he didn't sign anything.

[McQ]

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

Probably sells it to some debt collection agency who will spend a bunch of time trying to get money out of you. Their ability to garnish things like SS is a very limited in most cases once her assets go to zero. I am not sure what your legal fees will be to handle this.

You can also assume the new bill will include lawyer fees, late fees, etc., and be much more than 7k. I’m not suggesting you pay them, but the “fight” will be over more than 7k.

Yeah, I'm not sure cousin has sussed that out, he thinks it is a clean $7,000 that either the corporation gets or the family keeps.

[McQ]

For the background, see this thread (with many helpful suggestions from forum members if you have an elderly parent!)viewtopic.php?t=407904

To recap, cousin had to move his elderly Mom from Florida to California and get her into assisted living. She had been in an independent living complex in Florida, doing just fine up until mid-June. Then a couple of falls, and/or a flare up of arthritis, plus maybe pure old age, and of a sudden, in the space of a month, she needed assisted living. Cognitively fine, but the body doesn’t work very well anymore.

Cousin’s siblings put their shoulder to the wheel and team-tagged to keep Mom safe until he could get her on a plane and out to a nice facility near him. Of course, with the added cost, she will run out of money early next year (rather than later next year—independent living wasn’t cheap either). Family will have to fill the gap (and will).

I was speaking with cousin when he disclosed that to get Mom out here in a timely fashion meant breaking the lease.

“Now the corporate owner of the complex tells me she still owes the last two months rent, about $7,000 total. I left the apartment vacant and clean at the end of the 10th month. I know the lease applies nonetheless,* but I can’t see sending 25% of her remaining assets to the facility for [profanity omitted here]. She’s out of state now, with no assets in Florida, what can they do?”

*Florida law allows no exceptions to lease terms for medical reasons.

Hmmm … I’m not an attorney and I’ve never had to break a lease. But I worry cousin is being over-optimistic about how bad this affair could get. Mom’s doing well in the new facility now that she gets the care she needs, and the family reasonably hopes she will be around for another year or two or three.

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

to op:
**depending on the nature and size, etc, of the "corporate owner of the rental complex", and/or property management company (if small or corporate, or just a leasing agent, etc).
**depending on the exact lease agreement, landlord tenant code of the state/region, etc.

Many experienced rental complex and multi unit owners, and large rental building owners, that own and manage a lot of "doors" have learned that there's not much sense in putting out "x" amount of time, and legal costs, etc, to pursue matters like this farther than passing it along either in singles or bundles to a "collection agency". There, it's assumed that collection of any kind happens rarely, and if so, half or more is the "skim".
So....it is better to put efforts in to reducing turnover time and re rent the unit asap after renov etc.
And, rarely, there are newbie property owners and prop mgt "companies" and "leasing agents" who haven't learned yet that it will take 90 cents of effort and legal costs, etc, to recover a dollar.

It is up to you to send the required funds and put it in the past, or set the funds aside, should it be needed, or try best to ignore the collection notices, phone calls, etc, for as long as they are kept up.
If you do get notices from legal counsel letterhead, then take them to your own legal counsel and discuss the matter. In the worse case, for some reason, you do not want to owe multiples of the claim if that's possible, and it is possible. IANAL.

From a business owner, and property mgt company, and multi unit buildings owner's POV, I would not give this any effort and, in fact, if the tenant was known well and had a long tenancy, I would send a letter resulving any issues and wishing the family well (I've done this, often).

Your choices are there.
j

Thanks Sandtrap, I was hoping there would be someone with your experience and expertise here on the forum.

FWIW, the corporate owner has 150+ facilities spread across the eastern US, with several dozen in Florida. Mom's facility is a recent acquisition, which they are probably trying to rationalize.

She made 70 rent payments in her almost six years there, call it $200,000 plus (the broken lease is the 6th of 6 leases). All on time except one, when her checking account was locked because she was victimized by a scam. She gave them the new checking account info in what cousin thought was a timely manner, but they still charged her $100 for the bounced ACH when they billed the locked account.

[McQ]

I think the rules vary by state, I am not a lawyer. Let's say that the apartment market is good, so the unit will not be vacant long. In that case, I assume that the landlord can only get paid for the time the unit is empty assuming landlord is working hard to rent unit. Of course, the landlord will ask for all the remaining months in the lease and will probably then rent it out right away and get paid twice.

I know a couple that was in similar situation, he got laid off and took a job out of state, the landlord demanded all the rent due in the lease, they paid it. Rental market was good, landlord probably rented out the unit right away and got paid twice.

If I had to pay the remaining rent I would not surrender the keys until the lease was up. Or, you could try to negotiate with the landlord.

For a friend, we hired a fiduciary to handle his finances, shut down his business, etc. he also negotiated with the rehab facility and saved way more than his cost. PM me and I will give you his contact info.

Too late, alas, cousin turned in the keys along with his note of explanation that his mom was out of money and could not pay the remaining two months. He thought it was a fait accompli. (He flew in to supervise the moving company who removed all her possessions, cleaned up, and dropped off the keys and note on the 30th of the 10th lease month.)

[McQ]

Below is from this website:
https://bals.org/help/resources/tenants ... 0Writ%20of

As it is an independent living community, it may take more time than in a regular apartment to re rent but I'm not sure how that affects this case. Here are some questions:
Did she have to pay any other fees when she moved to this community? Generally there are some fees, a community fee? An entrance fee? Was there a security deposit?

If no one else cosigned and is not responsible for these fees, I would probably follow the advice of previous commenters, not much to worry about. Creditors and collection agencies may threatened dire consequences but have little legal standing to back it up.
https://www.moneymanagement.org/blog/wh ... 20Security

"Breaking Your Lease
If you are leaving your rented premises before the end of a written lease, be aware that you may be liable to your landlord for unpaid rent due after you have vacated. In order to recover this rent, however, the landlord must file a County Court action against you. If you leave before the end of your written lease, it does not automatically mean that the landlord can keep your security deposit. There are leases that state that the landlord is entitled to keep your security deposit as "liquidated damages” if the tenant leaves the rental dwelling before the lease expires. This kind of lease allows you to break the lease and the landlord is entitled to your deposit, however, it limits your liability for breaking the lease to the amount of your security deposit. It might be a good idea, if you are going to break a lease, to speak with your landlord to see if the landlord will accept your security deposit as your total financial obligation to him or her. If the landlord agrees to this, be sure to obtain a signed agreement to this effect from your landlord.

Only a non-refundable community deposit, so no security deposit for them to seize.

[McQ]

Can anybody set my expectations about what is likely to happen? What does a corporate owner tend to do in a case like this? Is $7,000 too small to be worth the legal costs to go after, or is cousin being naïve?

Probably sells it to some debt collection agency who will spend a bunch of time trying to get money out of you. Their ability to garnish things like SS is a very limited in most cases once her assets go to zero. I am not sure what your legal fees will be to handle this.

If the assets they can touch are zero it becomes blood from a turnip. Collection agency can place all the liens they wish but again if no assets to attach those liens are worthless. In fact unless collection agency has standing contract to take all of this companies bad debts, they might say we don’t want it since rocovery will be zero. Those collectors know these laws well and know 2hen the chance of recovery is nil.

Sounds like if she dies in the next 6 months or so they get their money. I am sure they have the math on what they need to do to optimize their return.

I am not suggesting paying it. But I could easy see getting hassled for this for half a decade.

In this connection, cousin said: "I get half a dozen calls a week that i don't answer because I don't recognize the number. If there is no voice mail I block the number, same if the voice mail is spam. So how much worse is it going to be to have calls from collection agencies going into voice mail?" Cousin further opined "I'm over 65 too and I believe I have protections under Elder Abuse statutes."

For Mom, her fingers are shot and she generally fails to swipe up effectively when her family calls, leaving her to click on contacts to call back ... which she would not do for a strange number.

But then, maybe cousin is naive about the wiles of collection agencies...

[McQ]

A few thoughts. Consider asking for advice and counsel from a Legal Services organization in Florida. Housing is usually one of the issues they handle as is elder law issues. With her low assets and no income she should qualify.

To sue her they have to find her to serve her. For normal people this is relatively easy but for an elderly person without credit cards or utility bills this can be much more difficult.

What is her plan when she runs out of money now? What is the consequence of paying the landlord and running out of money sooner? Conversely, by the time they find her, sue her, obtain a judgment and move to garnish her assets she will be out of money. Further to my first suggestion ask the legal services attorney for advice on protecting her SS payments. Also, when she runs out of assets maybe she should file for bankruptcy to discharge the $7K debt. I guess you have to see how much a bankruptcy attorney would charge for what seems like a fairly straightforward case. Legal services might handle this too, some of them do bankruptcy in connection with elder law services.

Thank you, Cobra Commander. Helpful!

[McQ]

I would not ordinarily suggest doing this, but it might be worth a little Google research to find a local TV or newspaper in the community where she was living.

If they have a consumer affairs specialist which many do, contact them with a brief summary of the story.

A 98 year-old who has lived independently up till a few months ago then needs assisted living getting dunned for a quarter of her entire net worth is a golden ticket for a very sympathetic presentation.

You may not want to go that route, but just saying that if you are looking for an option where the problem disappears, the corporate entity getting that kind of PR attack may very well decide it is more than worth it in goodwill to simply write off the debt.

Great suggestion! I almost don't dare pass it along to cousin, he'll eat it up like white sugar

[McQ]

A few thoughts. Consider asking for advice and counsel from a Legal Services organization in Florida. Housing is usually one of the issues they handle as is elder law issues. With her low assets and no income she should qualify.

To sue her they have to find her to serve her. For normal people this is relatively easy but for an elderly person without credit cards or utility bills this can be much more difficult.

What is her plan when she runs out of money now? What is the consequence of paying the landlord and running out of money sooner? Conversely, by the time they find her, sue her, obtain a judgment and move to garnish her assets she will be out of money. Further to my first suggestion ask the legal services attorney for advice on protecting her SS payments. Also, when she runs out of assets maybe she should file for bankruptcy to discharge the $7K debt. I guess you have to see how much a bankruptcy attorney would charge for what seems like a fairly straightforward case. Legal services might handle this too, some of them do bankruptcy in connection with elder law services.

With a 98 year old with no money, I think you skip the bankruptcy and let the estate deal with it. if she dies in like 2 months, you end up having to pay say 10k out. If she lives 9 months, she is more or less judgement proof. In the ideal world you would have some free resources to give out legal advice to her. You could ask the new place if they are aware of any to help out.

There is always talking to them and trying to explain that she is basically broke and convincing them to just drop it. I wouldnt count on that having a ton go success. But maybe they have some procedure for it.

As far as being a pitfall of being a landlord. This is why you don''t rent to people with no income or assets. I am amazed they found a place to take her in. I sort of expect there had to be some cosigning involved.

Bolded: might be worth a try depending on how it shakes out.

Re income/assets: she has income, call it $30,000 /year social security, pension, annuities. And $28K in liquid assets. But with monthly medical bills at $5000 (assisted living, medicare, medigap), those assets are running down fast.

[McQ]

I am not an attorney nor a landlord. A quick search on the internet suggests that some disabilities are valid reasons for a tenant to terminate a lease.

I would start with a short but formal letter to the the landlord explaining the tenant is 98 years old and due to [physical and mental] disabilities is unable to SAFELY remain in that apartment. A letter from her physician might help too. But honestly, her age speaks for itself.

Put it in writing, and retain a copy of course. The letter serves as notice, and to document the woman's age (98!!) and her loss of capability. That letter also makes her more than just any some random tenant trying to save a few bucks. She's 98!!! And cannot live there safely due to loss of capability.

Only a monster would seek payment from her.

cousin did indicate that she was a danger to herself in writing (that language was in the lease, but as an excuse for management to evict).

Your values do you credit, but there is nothing monstrous here. The law favors property, and property obeys its own, inhuman rules. Cousin is an adult, he knows the corporation has to make a rational judgment of where its self-interest lies, and that human sympathy plays no part in that judgment.

[McQ]

Consider looking at this problem from an alternate angle.

Is the legacy facility market rate or perhaps rent controlled and below market?
What would it take the legacy facility to evict the 98 yr old?

Rather than moving out and turning the space back, the 98 year old may be within their rights to maintain the property as a residence until evicted at a cost and hassle to the landlord. In that context a cost free early termination of the lease may be in the interest of both parties.

Cousin wasn't that smart, he turned in the keys, as his idea of a good-faith effort: all possessions removed, broom clean.

[McQ]

Sounds like she's effectively "judgement proof".
Yes, she owes the money, but she doesn't have it. Maybe it looks like she (temporarily) has the cash but I agree with OP with what the priorities should be for whatever remnants might currently be there. The landlord isn't at the top of the list here.
If a particularly aggressive landlord goes through the efforts of getting a judgement and trying to collect against her social security being deposited in a bank account, there are ways to stop that. Up to 2 months of SS deposits should be protected,
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia ... ounts.html
Depending on the state, there may be other exemptions available, also depending on the state may depend on how much effort she has to go through to claim any such exemptions (whether they can be applied automatically repeatedly, or if she would have to stay on top of filing the exemption over and over again, and dealing with funds temporarily being "frozen". Some people in such situations wind up operating on a mostly cash basis, cashing checks or withdrawing deposits quickly, rather than having to deal with the paperwork process of claiming exemptions.
Because the amounts are low enough to fall into small claims, I don't think it would be "too small to be worth the legal costs to go after it". It's likely a corporate landlord already knows the process and has people and processes to pursue it to the extent they can, once they figure out there's nothing for them to easily collect against the debt could get sold off to third party collectors that specialize in aggressively trying to collect.

Thanks JoMoney. Florida small claims court is $5,000, less than the two months rent. But I'm not sure cousin understands his future life dealing with collection agencies ...

[McQ]

I know the lease applies nonetheless,* but I can’t see sending 25% of her remaining assets to the facility

This is one of the many pitfalls of being a landlord. People sign leases and then magically think that they don't have to follow what they signed.

True. Thankfully people don't jump leases that often.

OP

If I were in her shoes, I would stay quiet until they served me. I say this as a landlord. I don't have time to deal with people who jump leases. I just send them a statement showing how the deposit was applied and close my files. Now if they dispute my statement (never happened), I might do more

Thanks av111. I was hoping to also get the perspective of BH who are landlords. Appreciate it.

Question: they have to find her to serve her, correct? (They'll find cousin easily enough.) Makes me wonder whether to tell cousin to hold off getting her a California ID and voter registration.

[pizzy]

I think you’d be best served to forget this ever happened.

[twh]

moved out of state
no other people liable for the lease break
=> do nothing
they aren't going to come after a 98 yr old who lived there for 6 years that had to go to assisted living and is running out of money

[Cobra Commander]

Consider looking at this problem from an alternate angle.

Is the legacy facility market rate or perhaps rent controlled and below market?
What would it take the legacy facility to evict the 98 yr old?

Rather than moving out and turning the space back, the 98 year old may be within their rights to maintain the property as a residence until evicted at a cost and hassle to the landlord. In that context a cost free early termination of the lease may be in the interest of both parties.

Cousin wasn't that smart, he turned in the keys, as his idea of a good-faith effort: all possessions removed, broom clean.

I actually think it was a good move to turn over the unit. First, it gives them the opportunity to re-rent it and mitigate their losses. Second, and more importantly, there is a much higher likelihood that a landlord will file suit against the woman to recover possession than if they already have possession of the unit. Think about it, every day they don't have the unit is a day they are losing more money and the only way to regain possession (if not voluntarily) is pursuing an eviction and obtaining a judgment.

[funxional]

I know a couple that was in similar situation, he got laid off and took a job out of state, the landlord demanded all the rent due in the lease, they paid it. Rental market was good, landlord probably rented out the unit right away and got paid twice.

If I had to pay the remaining rent I would not surrender the keys until the lease was up. Or, you could try to negotiate with the landlord.

My daughter/SIL had the exact opposite happen and I couldn't figure out why the apartment complex didn't try to get double rent.

They moved out of state and had the apartment empty and cleaned out two months before the end of the lease. They told the complex they would pay the final two months of rent. The complex insisted they come back and turn over the keys in person at the end of the lease, rather then letting them turn them in and renting the apartment out for those two months. SMH

In many/some places the landlord is required to show actual damages and has to try to prevent those damages (by attempting to rent to new tenants).

In your SIL case she is paying for the rental of the apartment (even if she hands back the keys). The apartment doesn't want to be liable for the space and keys in that time and does not have the legal right to rent it (since it's already rented to your SIL even if she isn't there and doesn't have the keys). There is a lot of downside and very little upside to try to gain an extra month of double-paid rent.

If you have to leave a lease early I would hand over the keys and let them bill you for the damages (check with a lawyer and your lease agreement, as always). It will be up to them to show and bill for the damages. Your worst case is you pay for the extra couple of months rent but if they are able to get a new tenant in you might pay less. Just communicate clearly, provide as much advance notice as possible, and understand that you might pay the remaining months.

[av111]

I know the lease applies nonetheless,* but I can’t see sending 25% of her remaining assets to the facility

This is one of the many pitfalls of being a landlord. People sign leases and then magically think that they don't have to follow what they signed.

True. Thankfully people don't jump leases that often.

OP

If I were in her shoes, I would stay quiet until they served me. I say this as a landlord. I don't have time to deal with people who jump leases. I just send them a statement showing how the deposit was applied and close my files. Now if they dispute my statement (never happened), I might do more

Thanks av111. I was hoping to also get the perspective of BH who are landlords. Appreciate it.

Question: they have to find her to serve her, correct? (They'll find cousin easily enough.) Makes me wonder whether to tell cousin to hold off getting her a California ID and voter registration.

While it is possible that a company may make efforts to locate the tenant when a forwarding address is not provided, energy spent on this is likely to be small. Some other people on the board have run large property management firms and their comments could be useful

I am a small landlord. For people who do not leave forwarding address and most jumpers don't, I send a request for payment to the last known address (my home), email and cell phone. After that I generally don't do anything more

[JStephens]

I don't deal with senior housing specifically, but I do deal with multifamily properties. Assuming no guarantor/cosigner, from what I've heard from people who deal with senior housing, this is not an uncommon scenario. They will put up a tough front, send it to collections, and call it a day. A collection company won't buy the debt, they'll be working on contingency (they'll get 40-45% of what's collected) and if you tell them she's 98 years old with no money they might not even ever bother calling again.
If you're really worried about a garnishment/lien, you can just prepay the rent to the new complex.