Colorado to Nova move beneficial?

[geodude]

I am exploring a GS 13 government position in the DC area. I'd push for the 10th step of the GS 13, which would put me at $145,617 salary per year. I wouldn't accept a lower salary. I'm trying to figure out whether its financially prudent to pursue this position.

I currently make around 95K per year in the Denver, Colorado area. Bonuses opportunities put me in the 115k range per year, but this is not guaranteed. I have a 10% match for 5% retirement contributions. Our health insurance is excellent. A high-deductible family plan with a $3000 deductible only costs about $30 per month. Dental for the family is only about $50 per month. We have a mortgage with an interest rate below 3%. Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes combined are about $1600 per month. However, my current commute is between 1hr 15 minutes to 1 hr 30 minutes one way. I can usually work remote a few days per week.

Due to where the job would be located, it would make the most sense to live in Northern Virginia (Nova). I would not be able to work remotely. We have a larger family, and realistically, would need a 4-bedroom home at a minimum. Homes of the size we need tend to run between $600-800k, with most of them being closer to $800k. After selling our current home, using that to buy a new home, and with present interest rates, we could easily be pushing $4000 per month in housing costs.

I think that when I crunch all the numbers, the move will technically be affordable. However, I'm not convinced that the move will be financially advantageous for us. My salary will be going up but so will our costs (with the housing more than doubling).

What other questions should I be asking to make sure that this is truly a step up for my family? What other factors should we be considering? What kind of a budget buffer should we have in our projected expenses in case things are more expensive than we think? Since we're not from Nova, are there benefits to living in that area that should account for in our decision?

I appreciate your insights into helping us process this decision.

[vinhodoporto]

I’ve lived in Nova for more than 10 years. Here are a few things to consider:

Where exactly (location) would you be working? This will help folks familiar with the area provide more input on where it might make sense to live based on commute and associated costs?

Would you consider renting, especially for a year or two at first? That could reduce your short term housing costs vs. buying.

What is the potential upward mobility in this position? There are a lot of GS-14 and 15 roles in the area that you could potentially move to in the future but it tends to be very agency and skillset specific. From a financial standpoint the main advantages of the move aren’t the immediate salary bump but rather 1. The potential for a much higher salary trajectory in the future, 2. A federal pension if you stay long enough (in addition to the retirement savings matches), 3. Amazing job security

Is your spouse able to work? This would help with the budget significantly. There are a lot of dual income families here.

[twh]

I assume you are in the Denver metro. NoVA is not cheap, but neither in Denver. The public schools in NoVA are almost all very good. There is more traffic overall in NoVA. More quality restaurants in NoVA. The weather in NoVA is horrible. Humid all the time, hot in the summer, the winter may not be as cold as Denver, but there is a lot less sun and it feels colder. If you spend any time outside, you will be sweating. More jobs in DC.

[DarkHelmetII]

1) i disagree that nova weather is horrible however is very hot and humid in summer; horrible to me implies it is worse than most other places in the country... certainly there are better but plenty are worse IMHO
2) exact location and # days /week in office is a huge consideration with respect to housing costs to keep commuting reasonable
3) by and large yes some great schools but there can still be great inter and even intra county differences, on top of inherent variability of any school district

[feehater]

I’d predict more like 800-1M for a 4BR but that depends on where you’re commuting to and how far into the exurbs you can live. Nova has great schools and also lower state income taxes than DC or Maryland (5.75%). (Unlike in most places, around here your income is taxed where you live, not where you work) However, there is an annual tax in the value of your car that can run into the four figures if you drive fancy cars.

[DCChak]

Good questions above ... Eager to see your answers.

Sounds like your current matching IRA contributions are superior. GS Feds get 5% matching only after contributing 7% of their own funds. Certain financial agencies - Fed, FDIC, SEC, CFPB - are compensated on a higher pay scale, and can also collect up to 7% matching.

Doesn't sound like you are earning a pension currently ... that would be a positive change. New employees pay 4.4% into the FERS pension. https://plan-your-federal-retirement.co ... 20Security. Some of the same agencies off the GS scale offer more than the customary 1% ( x years of service x high 3 salary), up to 1.7%.

As noted earlier, the location of the agency you are pursuing matters. I know the FDIC has a Ballston office, USGS is in Reston, and some FAA offices are near Dulles ... those locations could make housing in Loudoun County relatively more attractive. The USPTO is in Alexandria, which would make Lorton and some of Prince William more feasible, though many of their examiners, attorneys and agents seem to work remotely, even prior to COVID.

[vinhodoporto]

The other thing to consider regarding location is HOW you’ll commute to work. Most federal offices don’t have sufficient parking, plus there are very generous federal subsidies for using public transit, so most federal workers use public transportation. Most areas with a lot of federal offices are well served by the Metro and/or bus service.

If you are working in a location well served by public transportation, and are willing to tolerate a longer commute, that opens up options to get more house for your money. For example there are express busses serving Loudoun and Prince William County and even points further out. The Metro now goes out to Loudoun. And the VRE (train) goes to Manassas and Fredericksburg.

One other thought on housing. Due to high housing costs, there are a lot of large townhomes here - including ones with 4 bedrooms, two car garages, and a deck/patio and sometimes even a small yard. These aren’t cheap but can be a bit more affordable than single family homes.

[Outer Marker]

What other questions should I be asking to make sure that this is truly a step up for my family? What other factors should we be considering? What kind of a budget buffer should we have in our projected expenses in case things are more expensive than we think? Since we're not from Nova, are there benefits to living in that area that should account for in our decision?

Just eyeballing it, I would not make this move for financial reasons. I would only consider it if the quality of work and potential for advancement are considerably better with the new gig. $145K is not a lot to live on in DC. I suspect you can enjoy a better quality of life (cost of living wise) on your current salary in Colorado.

[8000m]

Where (specifically) in 'NOVA' do you want to be? As pointed out upthread, the dynamics (COL & day-to-day practicality) are quite different even when locales are separated by only 5-10 miles.

'NOVA' means many different things to different people. Back in the day, NoVa was primarily a term used to reference Fairfax County and to some extent, Arlington (which has/had its own standalone identity). In recent decades, 'NOVA' now often includes Loudoun, Prince William and sometimes other more distant counties. Housing costs are wildly different depending on exactly where you intend to live. Starter homes in many areas are $1.5m+. $800k is definitely available, but are those the areas in which you want to live?

Bottomline, the specifics matter to get you a better answer. If you want your kids to be the northern FFX Co school pyramids fed by McLean, Great Falls & Vienna... you'll be challenged to find 5 bedroom homes for less than $1.25m ($1.75-$3m more common for non-rundown properties). You are likely to find many <$1m options though if you intend to put roots in Manassass, Fredericksburg, Sterling, Herndon, Nokesville, Springfield, Warrenton (random town examples).

[Nestegg_User]

I'm questioning the initial premise of getting a step 10 of GS 13 ____ GS 13 might be realistic, but I'm not familiar with any that would put any new employee at step 10 as usually, at best (and I mean you would have to be of very significant value/agency need) would be step 6 (possible) or 7 (more doubtful).

perhaps instead, try seeing if you could get an SES (technical SES) position, if you could even qualify.

[geodude]

Where exactly (location) would you be working?

Would you consider renting, especially for a year or two at first?

What is the potential upward mobility in this position?

Is your spouse able to work?

The job is the Falls Church area.

Yes, renting is a possibility. Lower interest rates would make things much more affordable.

I'm not clear on upward mobility, yet. My impression is that I'd have to get a supervisory role to move up a band. I'm not sure how easy that is.

Yes, my wife can work, but probably can't bring in a huge income right now due to having small children. Bringing in an extra $1000-$2000 a month on her end might be possible.

[geodude]

I'm questioning the initial premise of getting a step 10 of GS 13 ____ GS 13 might be realistic.

I've already been offered step 8. They mentioned step 10 might be possible. This is only realistic for us if I'm at a step 10. If that ends up not being possible, then I'll withdraw my application.

[vinhodoporto]

Where exactly (location) would you be working?

Would you consider renting, especially for a year or two at first?

What is the potential upward mobility in this position?

Is your spouse able to work?

The job is the Falls Church area.

Yes, renting is a possibility. Lower interest rates would make things much more affordable.

I'm not clear on upward mobility, yet. My impression is that I'd have to get a supervisory role to move up a band. I'm not sure how easy that is.

Yes, my wife can work, but probably can't bring in a huge income right now due to having small children. Bringing in an extra $1000-$2000 a month on her end might be possible.

For Falls Church your commuting radius likely includes most of Fairfax County, Eastern Loudoun (Ashburn, Aldie, Chantilly, Leesburg, South Riding, Sterling areas) and Northern Prince William (Gainesville/ Haymarket areas). You can likely find something in your price range, especially if you’re willing to rent, consider townhomes, or a longer commute. What you’re looking for is likely to be out of your price range in Falls Church or areas like Vienna or McLean.

The Orange and Silver Line metros both serve Falls Church. You’d have to see how to get from the metro to where you work. I don’t know the bus routes but you could certainly research to narrow down where you might live.

There are a lot of non-supervisory 14 and 15 roles in the DC area but you’d want to check with people at your prospective office to understand how it works there. But good not to count on a promotion, especially before you start a job.

When we moved to the area and bought our house we were in a similar situation to you. The first year we were spending a bit over 30% of our gross income on PITI and HOA. It’s doable if you’re frugal in all other areas and don’t have much if any other debt like car loans. Things were tight but got better when I got a promotion and a raise and my spouse started working part time.

[chassis]

I am exploring a GS 13 government position in the DC area. I'd push for the 10th step of the GS 13, which would put me at $145,617 salary per year. I wouldn't accept a lower salary. I'm trying to figure out whether its financially prudent to pursue this position.

I currently make around 95K per year in the Denver, Colorado area. Bonuses opportunities put me in the 115k range per year, but this is not guaranteed. I have a 10% match for 5% retirement contributions. Our health insurance is excellent. A high-deductible family plan with a $3000 deductible only costs about $30 per month. Dental for the family is only about $50 per month. We have a mortgage with an interest rate below 3%. Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes combined are about $1600 per month. However, my current commute is between 1hr 15 minutes to 1 hr 30 minutes one way. I can usually work remote a few days per week.

Due to where the job would be located, it would make the most sense to live in Northern Virginia (Nova). I would not be able to work remotely. We have a larger family, and realistically, would need a 4-bedroom home at a minimum. Homes of the size we need tend to run between $600-800k, with most of them being closer to $800k. After selling our current home, using that to buy a new home, and with present interest rates, we could easily be pushing $4000 per month in housing costs.

I think that when I crunch all the numbers, the move will technically be affordable. However, I'm not convinced that the move will be financially advantageous for us. My salary will be going up but so will our costs (with the housing more than doubling).

What other questions should I be asking to make sure that this is truly a step up for my family? What other factors should we be considering? What kind of a budget buffer should we have in our projected expenses in case things are more expensive than we think? Since we're not from Nova, are there benefits to living in that area that should account for in our decision?

I appreciate your insights into helping us process this decision.

DC/Nova is expensive. I don’t see that you will make progress financially on this deal. You might not go backwards cost of living and salary wise but I don’t see you getting ahead. Why not move closer to your job in CO?

[Adam11]

Trust me, $146k/yr simply isn’t enough to live in NoVA with multiple kids at even close to the same level of lifestyle that you’re used to in Denver. Your housing costs alone are going to triple buying or renting, and I would suggest renting to start as close as possible to your job in order to get your bearings and in case the move doesn’t stick. For it not to be an overall downgrade either you hold out for a $240k+ job in Northern VA/DC (you won’t be working for the feds), or have your spouse find a $80k+ job in addition to your job.

[vinhodoporto]

Trust me, $146k/yr simply isn’t enough to live in NoVA with multiple kids at even close to the same level of lifestyle that you’re used to in Denver. Your housing costs alone are going to triple buying or renting, and I would suggest renting to start as close as possible to your job in order to get your bearings and in case the move doesn’t stick. For it not to be an overall downgrade either you hold out for a $240k+ job in Northern VA/DC (you won’t be working for the feds), or have your spouse find a $80k+ job in addition to your job.

Nova is expensive but it’s not more than 2x expensive than Denver, which is what you’re suggesting, not even for housing. Colorado in general and Denver in particular have gotten a lot more expensive in the last few years as more and more people have moved there.

They’re looking at a $30k+ raise to make the move, most of which is going to go to housing. They don’t have childcare expenses (stay at home spouse) which are a big driver of COL for a lot of families in Nova. Commuting will probably be cheaper with the fed employee subsidies. What else is going to cost significantly more than what they’re spending right now?

I agree $146k is fairly tight for a family in Nova that wants 4 bedrooms but it’s not impossible, especially since they’re not paying for daycare. Lots of families get by on less.

The raise alone isn’t enough to justify the move from a strictly financial perspective, but some combination of better career options, fed pension, and job/income security very well might make it worthwhile.

[thedaybeforetoday]

I am exploring a GS 13 government position in the DC area. I'd push for the 10th step of the GS 13, which would put me at $145,617 salary per year. I wouldn't accept a lower salary. I'm trying to figure out whether its financially prudent to pursue this position.

I currently make around 95K per year in the Denver, Colorado area. Bonuses opportunities put me in the 115k range per year, but this is not guaranteed. I have a 10% match for 5% retirement contributions. Our health insurance is excellent. A high-deductible family plan with a $3000 deductible only costs about $30 per month. Dental for the family is only about $50 per month. We have a mortgage with an interest rate below 3%. Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes combined are about $1600 per month. However, my current commute is between 1hr 15 minutes to 1 hr 30 minutes one way. I can usually work remote a few days per week.

Due to where the job would be located, it would make the most sense to live in Northern Virginia (Nova). I would not be able to work remotely. We have a larger family, and realistically, would need a 4-bedroom home at a minimum. Homes of the size we need tend to run between $600-800k, with most of them being closer to $800k. After selling our current home, using that to buy a new home, and with present interest rates, we could easily be pushing $4000 per month in housing costs.

I think that when I crunch all the numbers, the move will technically be affordable. However, I'm not convinced that the move will be financially advantageous for us. My salary will be going up but so will our costs (with the housing more than doubling).

What other questions should I be asking to make sure that this is truly a step up for my family? What other factors should we be considering? What kind of a budget buffer should we have in our projected expenses in case things are more expensive than we think? Since we're not from Nova, are there benefits to living in that area that should account for in our decision?

I appreciate your insights into helping us process this decision.

What would the net gain/loss after all additional expenses (taxes, housing, cost of living, insurance, maintenance, heating and cooling a larger home, etc...)in Nova vs Denver ?

The increase in housing costs alone ( i think your 4k/month in Nova for what you want is an underestimate. A $600k mortgage is $4,300/month) looks to be about an additional $35-$40k/year increase in before tax income to cover that difference on an after tax basis.

The loss of 100 sunny days per year and increase in what is becoming oppressive humidity in the summer, would require more than a roughly break even (as this appears with the highest step you might be able to get) but that's a personal decision.

[alexbogle]

I think it is almost even.

I would personally decide based on career prospects if I stayed vs not.

Also get input from children and wife which I bet would be against the move.

That salary is middling for Nova. I would not move for it, ersonally. Yes, you get a lot of employment opportunities from the fed gov in Nova but you are also stuck in those types of jobs... If you are good at your job, then this isn't a major benefit in my opinion.

[andypanda]

Not knowing a thing about Denver I googled. I was curious because I grew up in Rockville/Bethesda MD around the beltway in Montgomery County. My guess was that Denver isn't nearly as expensive as the D.C. area and NoVa. Everything inside the beltway - like Falls Church - has always been more expensive. Good luck.

"The average annual household income in Denver is $111,981, while the median household income sits at $78,177 per year. "

Northern Virginia (NoVa)- "Median Household Income: $132,128"

Falls Church - "Median Household Income: $155,071 "

[daleddm]

Umm, quality of life (lifestyle) ?? One can enjoy the culture of a place like the DC area, but no skiing or mountain adventures that can (or that I would) compare to Colorado. We tend to make peace and make accommodations with wherever we find ourselves that way, but getting to make a choice like that isn't all that common.

[CloseEnough]

What do you and your family like to do when you are not working? Very different places, very different opportunities for recreation activities. I would think this should be a significant part of your calculus.

[andypanda]

Fairfax County with an enrollment of 180,000 students pays a teacher with a BA and ten years of experience $72,000 for a 195-day contract. www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/ ... 95-day.pdf

An MA and 20 years is paid $102,750 for the short contract.

I'd talk about the traffic, but I'm mostly immune to it because I learned to drive in D.C. when I was 15 and got my unrestricted license the day I turned 16. He who hesitates loses the right of way. Everyone in D.C. seems to think that the rules back home are the rules in D.C. - state rules, foreign country rules, etc. It's fun if you have the right attitude and think that driving should be a variation of bumper cars and dodge ball.

[geodude]

Why not move closer to your job in CO?

The commute isn't really the problem. It's not pleasant, but since I can usually work from home 2-3 days a week, it's manageable. Finding a better-paying job that isn't a worse commute has been more challenging. I feel stuck at my current job. This opportunity came around somewhat unexpectedly, which is why we're exploring it. But if I'm considering this opportunity, why not consider opportunities in other places with lower cost of living?

I would personally decide based on career prospects if I stayed vs not.

Also get input from children and wife which I bet would be against the move.

Your first point is something I'm really trying to figure out. It *seems like* the job market would offer a lot more mobility in the DC area, it's a risky move since we're not in a bad place right now. And we like it here.

My wife and I will definitely be deciding this together. I'm not going to push for this if she's really uncomfortable with it. I'm not even sure I'm comfortable with the move! And we're getting feedback from the kids. Ultimately, if we don't feel this is a really good opportunity for our family and that what we're giving up isn't strongly outweighed by what we stand to gain, then we're not going to do it.

[pizzy]

what we stand to gain

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see where your family gains anything with the move.

[Outer Marker]

Your first point is something I'm really trying to figure out. It *seems like* the job market would offer a lot more mobility in the DC area, it's a risky move since we're not in a bad place right now. And we like it here.

This move does not make sense as you've outlined it. In terms of cost of living vs. salary, you're going backward. If it was moving for a job opportunity you loved and could substantially increase your salary in a year or two, great, but I would not move for this position. I wouldn't want to live in the DC metro area on a household income of less than $250K, preferably more. You've got a lot better recreational activities in CO too. I spend more than $10K a year on ski trips out west. You'd also be starting out tens of thousands of dollars in the hole from real estate and moving expenses unless your employer is paying for that. I know several fed employees making more than $145K who moved out of DC to field offices in CO and elsewhere to improve their cost of living vs. salary.

[twh]

I'm not sure how many are familiar with housing costs in Denver and NoVA. Denver may actually be more expensive for housing. It is hard to believe, but spend some time on Zillow and you will see. Now, sure, you can find pockets of this and that both places that say otherwise, but Denver housing costs are nuts. Also worth noting, car insurance in Denver is much higher than NoVA. Real estates taxes in NoVA are very much higher and Virginia does have personal property tax on autos that can take a bite each year on newer cars especially.

[dukeblue219]

I'm questioning the initial premise of getting a step 10 of GS 13 ____ GS 13 might be realistic, but I'm not familiar with any that would put any new employee at step 10 as usually, at best (and I mean you would have to be of very significant value/agency need) would be step 6 (possible) or 7 (more doubtful).

Very common at my (engineering/science) agency to bring someone in at 13-10 or 14-10 as a best effort to match much higher private sector salaries. Usually these folks have extensive experience or PhDs, but it doesn't have to be an exceptional case.

The downside is that they get stuck with limited raises indefinitely unless a higher grade hiring point becomes available.

[thedaybeforetoday]

what we stand to gain

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see where your family gains anything with the move.

+1.
I asked but got not reply about any potential financial benefits, as I didn't see any.

[thedaybeforetoday]

I'm not sure how many are familiar with housing costs in Denver and NoVA. Denver may actually be more expensive for housing. It is hard to believe, but spend some time on Zillow and you will see. Now, sure, you can find pockets of this and that both places that say otherwise, but Denver housing costs are nuts. Also worth noting, car insurance in Denver is much higher than NoVA. Real estates taxes in NoVA are very much higher and Virginia does have personal property tax on autos that can take a bite each year on newer cars especially.

General stats about Denver housing are irrelevant as the OP posted his current housing costs:

" We have a mortgage with an interest rate below 3%. Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes combined are about $1600 per month."

General stats about NoVA housing are, however, relevant as the OP doesn't have a home in that area and would need to acquire housing with the move.

[Nestegg_User]

I'm questioning the initial premise of getting a step 10 of GS 13 ____ GS 13 might be realistic, but I'm not familiar with any that would put any new employee at step 10 as usually, at best (and I mean you would have to be of very significant value/agency need) would be step 6 (possible) or 7 (more doubtful).

Very common at my (engineering/science) agency to bring someone in at 13-10 or 14-10 as a best effort to match much higher private sector salaries. Usually these folks have extensive experience or PhDs, but it doesn't have to be an exceptional case.

The downside is that they get stuck with limited raises indefinitely unless a higher grade hiring point becomes available.

From the original post the OP noted their salary was $95 k and may/might not get the bump from additional bonus of $25k.... so the base most HR would look at is the $95 k and what it's GS 13 step is closest equivalence .... hmmm, closest equivalence is in the GS 12 range... so lets boost by 20% so now at $114k which is step 3, boost by 40% and that's $133 k and that's step 7.... AFTER A 40% JUMP IN OP's BASE PAY !, base pay is what HR would use for comparison as they don't include bonuses (and we did have those transitioning from private engineering companies and bonuses weren't part of the calculus (and they came in at step 7). The HR people would have a really hard time justifying higher than the negotiated step 8 that the OP gave that they offered, at least in any agency I was familar with (and I'd been in a special pay system (non GS) which was a blend of 13/14 for senior technical when I retired).
(yes, I'm also very familiar with the Denver market, where costs for housing have indeed skyrocketed, but not DC; I did meet some from DC that had a very difficult time finding housing within their salary levels and they had to commut from areas like Manassas or areas near Leesburg, both of which appear to be major headaches relative to the commute. And speaking of commute, much of the Denver area can be a real bear for commuting... just back there two weeks ago, and I'm very familiar with the area... but the DC commute is gonna be far worse; hard to say which is worse-- I-10 in Houston, the Dan Ryan in Chicago, I-5 in LA, or the I-95/395/495 split... when you ain't going anywhere for a long time it's hard to tell the difference.)

[oxothuk]

I made the opposite move 30 years ago and have never regretted it. Life is more competitive in DC and everyone is wound up about two clicks too tight. ‘Good schools’ is just another way of saying that most of the population is middle or upper middle class.

I’ve been back to visit NOVA a couple of times since I left and traffic which was bad then is worse now. The competitiveness I mentioned earlier really comes out when people get on the highway.

My advice is don’t do it.

[andypanda]

"the I-95/395/495 split"

But, but, but, they fixed the mixing bowl in 2007 after eight years of work.

[twh]

Another thing about the DC area. If you have any allergies to pollen, they will be very active. It is very very green compared to Colorado even considering the extra rain Colorado has gotten this year.

[vinhodoporto]

... but the DC commute is gonna be far worse; hard to say which is worse-- I-10 in Houston, the Dan Ryan in Chicago, I-5 in LA, or the I-95/395/495 split... when you ain't going anywhere for a long time it's hard to tell the difference.)

Based on where OP would be working (Falls Church) they shouldn’t have to go anywhere near the "the I-95/395/495 split". In fact they likely won’t have to go on any of those roads even if they’re driving.

Commuting to a suburb like Falls Church opens up a lot of opportunities to live a bit further out for more affordable housing vs. someone who has to commute to downtown DC. Manassas or Leesburg (two suburbs mentioned above) to Falls Church is a much better commute than going from those places all the way into DC.

FWIW commuting by car in the DC area has gotten significantly better since 2019 due to the large number of people working remotely or flexible schedules. For example my spouse’s commute is 25 min vs. 40 before and my neighbor’s is 45 min vs. 75 before.

[BlizzardPearl]

Based on personal experience, some additional points for your consideration:

Short-term
- If I make $145K now, I’d move out of NoVA to CO in a heart beat. But that’s mostly because, like a prior poster, I spend ~$10K skiing out west every year. And we’re within 3 years of retirement.
- Depending on what quality of life you’re used to - a nice dinner for 2 can easily be $100 with tips included.
- If you buy a house, contractor repairs & maintenance are expensive, often in the high hundreds or low thousands. Again, don’t know how it compares to Denver.

Long-term
- If the income tax regime reverts to pre-2017 in 2026, you might lose some or all of the child tax credits you’re getting now.
- Depending on your skill set and security clearance, especially in defense contracting, the post-government career options are plentiful and lucrative.
- NoVA schools are generally rated high academically.
- VA state colleges are also highly rated and very affordable to VA residents.

My gut feel, based on all the replies and our family’s experience, is the move might have short-term pain but long-term rewards.

[andypanda]

I had no idea. About CO rain, or lack of rain.

"Weather & Climate Info. The biggest surprise for visitors to Denver is the climate. The arid conditions bring only 8 to 15 inches of annual precipitation"

Fairfax County and Virginia average 43 inches of rain per year.

"Geography of Washington, D.C. - Wikipedia
Washington, D.C., is located in the humid subtropical climate zone (Köppen climate classification: Cfa), exhibiting four distinct seasons. Its climate is typical of the mid-Atlantic states."

[DarkHelmetII]

- If you buy a house, contractor repairs & maintenance are expensive, often in the high hundreds or low thousands.

This is for NOVA? What frequency?

[MCST]

General stats about Denver housing are irrelevant as the OP posted his current housing costs:

" We have a mortgage with an interest rate below 3%. Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes combined are about $1600 per month."

General stats about NoVA housing are, however, relevant as the OP doesn't have a home in that area and would need to acquire housing with the move.

This is a very important point. But… if OP moves to DC and hates it and wants to come back to Denver (maybe they have family here) they’ll be priced out of most of the Denver market. I don’t think a lot of people realize just how expensive Denver has gotten. There is a lot of urban sprawl, so while there are some semi-affordable areas to live, you probably don’t want to live in those areas.

Unless OP has a really good chance of advancing their career or moving into the private sector for more money in DC it’s tough to justify that change.

I’d be real sure you want to move

[Normchad]

I’ve lived in NOVA for 30 years. I’m in prince william county. Lots of government employees live here around me.

People used to like this county, because it was a lot cheaper than Fairfax, Fall Church, etc etc. lots of my neighbors started out in those places, then moved here because they could afford a single family home with a yard and good schools.

It’s a long commute from here to DC, and it’s unpredictable. Maybe it’s normally 45 minutes each way. But a few days a year it will be 4 hours.

This county is no,longer a cheap place to live. My completely typical, vinyl clad, tract home is now worth 871K per Zillow.

For those of us living away from the city and falls church, it can’t be overstated how bad traffic is, and how much it affects your life.

I wouldn’t move here, to work in DC, if I was only getting 145K.

I told my own kid to move somewhere else after college, because she will never be able to afford to make a good,life for herself here.

[BlizzardPearl]

- If you buy a house, contractor repairs & maintenance are expensive, often in the high hundreds or low thousands.

This is for NOVA? What frequency?

This is in Fairfax County. My family has the misfortune of not being very handy, so anything more complicated than swapping out an electrical outlet requires tradesmen (we don’t go for the cheapest; we look for quality material & work). And owning a 40+ year-old house means things break and upgrades needed. The most recent thing was fix some house wrap to stop a leak, install new gutters & downspouts, and wrap all trims and fascia for about $9K. My tree needs trimming every 2-3 years and every time it goes up. Last time it was $500. For the interior I paid about $600 to run CAT6 cables to 4 existing cable outlets for gigabit internet. We’re not elderly per se, but don’t want to do labor anymore so have weekly mows, lawn care, and quarterly pest control. I’d say on the average it always ends up several thousand dollars annually for this and that in repairs, maintenance, and little upgrades here and there.

For those of us living away from the city and falls church, it can’t be overstated how bad traffic is, and how much it affects your life.

I wouldn’t move here, to work in DC, if I was only getting 145K.

I told my own kid to move somewhere else after college, because she will never be able to afford to make a good,life for herself here.

Agreed on the traffic. I don’t go out during rush hour. For a sense of how busy it can get, rush hours on I-66 (the main artery from the western suburbs to DC) is 5:30am - 9:30am and 3pm - 7pm.

I don’t necessarily agree with moving away after college, however. With the right skills & experience, there are lots of opportunities here and you can make a very good living even without a college degree. We’ve been here for 20 years. It was tight at the beginning, but we’ve earned and saved enough along the way to retire in place a few years early.

[TBillT]

We live in NoVA/Fairfax area.
Reflecting on the above posts, gee we have had a decent summer weather this year. Somehow DC was on the relatively cool side.

Where I live equal access to VRE train, slugging car pool system, and metro, and Virginia was quite proactive on installing HOT lanes for those with 3 car pool or pay tools. The pandemic has greatly reduced numbers commuting into DC as US gov't has been slow getting people back to office. So some things are in decline (such as the vibrant car pool slugging system we had before the COVID). VRE ridership took big hit, hopefully on road to recovery.

Taxes pretty high here and getting higher. we tax cars quite a bit each year to make ends meet. so be modest there. FBI might move here, depending on location decision. But NoVA good, as close to Quantico and Virginia has been proactive with road expansion (I95/395/495/I66 HOT lanes)

Um well, we did sort of get stuck here when our children/grandchildren decided to come here from North Jersey. But to some extent prices increased here to make it look a bit more like NJ.

Don't get confused by stats that say Virginia has low gasoline prices or taxes etc. Those quotes are the average of very low prices in RoVA (Rest of Virginia) and much higher costs in NoVA....roughly 50/50 split

[geodude]

What would the net gain/loss after all additional expenses (taxes, housing, cost of living, insurance, maintenance, heating and cooling a larger home, etc...)in Nova vs Denver ?

I'm still trying to figure out. Some of the costs are easy to estimate, but some like energy, water, trash, internet, etc., are a bit more difficult. It would depend on where we were living, the type of furnace and A/C the house has, how much yard the house has, etc. And that would be a valid reason to not pursue this opportunity. There's a lot of uncertainty.

Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see where your family gains anything with the move.

And I appreciate your bluntness. That's kind of the point of this post. I'm not familiar with the D/C area beyond a few visits. This is not a clear short-term financial win, so I'm trying to figure out whether the long-term potential is worth the risk.

Some other benefits include better work/life balance, the potential for pension, exposure to a new area of American culture, being close to the political center of our nation, closer proximity to better/more universities for our children, potential travel opportunities with this job, job stability, milder winters, etc.

I'm not saying that any of those outweigh the financial risks. But we're trying to see if there are any long-term benefits that might cause us to make the jump.

I think it is almost even.
...
I would personally decide based on career prospects if I stayed vs not.

I have a similar take. I should have the opportunity to learn more about long-term prospects as I discuss this with the organization.

The raise alone isn’t enough to justify the move from a strictly financial perspective, but some combination of better career options, fed pension, and job/income security very well might make it worthwhile.

Yes, maybe. And of course, those are the hardest to quantify! But we're trying to factor those considerations into our decisions.

My gut feel, based on all the replies and our family’s experience, is the move might have short-term pain but long-term rewards.

Thanks for outlining some of the long-term considerations. I do think there are some long-term prospects in DC that I wouldn't have in the Denver area. But whether that's work the short-term risks is a tough call.

....

In general, thank you to everyone for your valuable feedback and advice. I have a lot more specifics to evaluate as we're making our decision. And we are leaning away from this opportunity, but we want to make sure we don't short-circuit the process to early.

[Ret2018]

My two cents--having lived in DC metro area for over twenty years (and now considering getting out as quality of life has significantly degraded with traffic, crime, high taxes, and mcmansions and townhomes popping up on farm land like mushrooms after a rain) and having spent time in Colorado--you and your family will never have the same access to outdoors, recreation and quality time in NOVA as you do in Denver. If you prioritize your career over all else, maybe it's the right choice for you. Me, I'm content with "enough" in my career and would give my eye teeth to swap NOVA for Colorado.

[thedaybeforetoday]

General stats about Denver housing are irrelevant as the OP posted his current housing costs:

" We have a mortgage with an interest rate below 3%. Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes combined are about $1600 per month."

General stats about NoVA housing are, however, relevant as the OP doesn't have a home in that area and would need to acquire housing with the move.

This is a very important point. But… if OP moves to DC and hates it and wants to come back to Denver (maybe they have family here) they’ll be priced out of most of the Denver market. I don’t think a lot of people realize just how expensive Denver has gotten. There is a lot of urban sprawl, so while there are some semi-affordable areas to live, you probably don’t want to live in those areas.

Unless OP has a really good chance of advancing their career or moving into the private sector for more money in DC it’s tough to justify that change.

I’d be real sure you want to move

Great point; I missed that one.

[belowaverage]

My two cents--having lived in DC metro area for over twenty years (and now considering getting out as quality of life has significantly degraded with traffic, crime, high taxes, and mcmansions and townhomes popping up on farm land like mushrooms after a rain) and having spent time in Colorado--you and your family will never have the same access to outdoors, recreation and quality time in NOVA as you do in Denver. If you prioritize your career over all else, maybe it's the right choice for you. Me, I'm content with "enough" in my career and would give my eye teeth to swap NOVA for Colorado.

Where in CO did you spend time if you don't mind me asking? Following this thread because I am considering an opposite move (NC --->CO). I am a very low paid minion in higher ed. and I have not spent time in CO and it would be a big move for me to take on solo. Though, I do not want to detract from OP's thread, just curious.

[toomanysidehustles]

My two cents--having lived in DC metro area for over twenty years (and now considering getting out as quality of life has significantly degraded with traffic, crime, high taxes, and mcmansions and townhomes popping up on farm land like mushrooms after a rain) and having spent time in Colorado--you and your family will never have the same access to outdoors, recreation and quality time in NOVA as you do in Denver. If you prioritize your career over all else, maybe it's the right choice for you. Me, I'm content with "enough" in my career and would give my eye teeth to swap NOVA for Colorado.

Where in CO did you spend time if you don't mind me asking? Following this thread because I am considering an opposite move (NC --->CO). I am a very low paid minion in higher ed. and I have not spent time in CO and it would be a big move for me to take on solo. Though, I do not want to detract from OP's thread, just curious.

Check out Fort Collins if you make it out this way. I was 24 and single, on a road trip (from ATL metro) to visit my sister in SF and stopped in Fort Collins to visit a high school friend attending vet school at Colorado State University. I never made it to California, my sister ended up visiting me a year later in Fort Collins.

[BlizzardPearl]

My two cents--having lived in DC metro area for over twenty years (and now considering getting out as quality of life has significantly degraded with traffic, crime, high taxes, and mcmansions and townhomes popping up on farm land like mushrooms after a rain) and having spent time in Colorado--you and your family will never have the same access to outdoors, recreation and quality time in NOVA as you do in Denver. If you prioritize your career over all else, maybe it's the right choice for you. Me, I'm content with "enough" in my career and would give my eye teeth to swap NOVA for Colorado.

Where in CO did you spend time if you don't mind me asking? Following this thread because I am considering an opposite move (NC --->CO). I am a very low paid minion in higher ed. and I have not spent time in CO and it would be a big move for me to take on solo. Though, I do not want to detract from OP's thread, just curious.

I lived in Colorado Springs for 3 years back in the day. Loved the area. Pikes Peak blocked a lot of the nasty winter storms. The thing I missed was four distinct seasons. The skiing, though, more than made up for it.

Another factor to consider - the altitude. I know someone who’s developed some night time breathing issues in the last few years as they got older. Having a restful sleep means using an oxygen machine.

[Valuethinker]

I am exploring a GS 13 government position in the DC area. I'd push for the 10th step of the GS 13, which would put me at $145,617 salary per year. I wouldn't accept a lower salary. I'm trying to figure out whether its financially prudent to pursue this position.

I currently make around 95K per year in the Denver, Colorado area. Bonuses opportunities put me in the 115k range per year, but this is not guaranteed. I have a 10% match for 5% retirement contributions. Our health insurance is excellent. A high-deductible family plan with a $3000 deductible only costs about $30 per month. Dental for the family is only about $50 per month. We have a mortgage with an interest rate below 3%. Our mortgage, insurance, and property taxes combined are about $1600 per month. However, my current commute is between 1hr 15 minutes to 1 hr 30 minutes one way. I can usually work remote a few days per week.

Due to where the job would be located, it would make the most sense to live in Northern Virginia (Nova). I would not be able to work remotely. We have a larger family, and realistically, would need a 4-bedroom home at a minimum. Homes of the size we need tend to run between $600-800k, with most of them being closer to $800k. After selling our current home, using that to buy a new home, and with present interest rates, we could easily be pushing $4000 per month in housing costs.

I think that when I crunch all the numbers, the move will technically be affordable. However, I'm not convinced that the move will be financially advantageous for us. My salary will be going up but so will our costs (with the housing more than doubling).

What other questions should I be asking to make sure that this is truly a step up for my family? What other factors should we be considering? What kind of a budget buffer should we have in our projected expenses in case things are more expensive than we think? Since we're not from Nova, are there benefits to living in that area that should account for in our decision?

I appreciate your insights into helping us process this decision.

CO positives

- climate - although the spring & fall are mild, DC is defined by its humidity I think (see point re pollen as well)
- access to outdoors
- arguably less stratification/ anxiety about socioeconomic & educational status. The internal competitiveness of the professional classes is legendary (speaking as having a friend who went from Higher Education to practicing Law in the DC area) -- I am reaching on this one so by all means someone else may have another view
- traffic is bad, I gather, in both locales. But it must be worse in DC - I mean really worth

DC positives
- potentially good career move, although depending on area it may be completely self-limiting
- good schools & state universities in Virginia
- cultural & intellectual opportunities in DC area (but as a family with young children, you won't make a lot of use of them I don't imagine) -- as your kids grow older you can take them to some of the best museums in USA (or anywhere) and there will be other opportunities that arise from being in the nation's capital

How much do you depend on your parents/ in-laws for childcare? How important is it to be close to them when your children are young? That's very family-specific but I think it is really important.

This does not feel like a no-brainer. The imponderable is the career move - that's the one you have to solve. I would say if it is a good to great career move then it's worth seriously thinking about.

[bsteiner]

...
The job is the Falls Church area.
...

Not a quick trip on the Metro, but if you would have to drive anyway, you might also consider some of the towns across the river into Maryland such as Bethesda, Potomac, Rockville, which are a short trip by car.

[andypanda]

Crossing the Potomac north of DC could be a problem. The American Legion Bridge is already 10 lanes and they began planning an expansion in 2017, but it's been tied up for various reasons and lawsuits. And wrecks, and weather, etc. It's the only reasonable way to get between Montgomery County MD and Fairfax County VA.

"The American Legion Memorial Bridge is an important commuter route because of its proximity to edge cities and high tech centers in Maryland and Virginia. It is the only high volume crossing between Montgomery County, Maryland and Fairfax County, Virginia, the most populous counties in their respective states. It is also the only major crossing between Maryland and Virginia between the Point of Rocks Bridge, more than 30 miles (50 km) upstream and the Chain Bridge downstream between the Commonwealth of Virginia and the District of Columbia."

I still call it the Cabin John bridge. That was the official name when it opened in '62 with six uncrowded lanes. They renamed it in '69. Fwiw, 1962 was a busy year. That was the year Dulles Airport opened out in the middle of nowhere VA.