Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

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986racer
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Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by 986racer »

My DD just graduated and is going to rent an apartment in NYC with 2 other roommates. The lease starts after she will have only one pay cycle at her job... As such, the landlord is asking for a guarantor (the other 2 tenants also have guarantors). The lease reads as follows
In consideration of Landlord agreeing to lease to __________________________________ (Tenant(s) the dwelling unit address_________________________ (Apartment Address) as stated in lease dated _____________ by and between ___________________________ (Landlord) and ___________________ Tenant(s) the undersigned, hereby waiving the obligations of the homestead exemption laws as to this lease, jointly and severally if there be more than one undersigned, guarantee the payment of rent and the performance of all the provisions of this lease by Tenant(s), his/her successors and/or assigns, and agree that the mere non-payment of rent and non-performance of said provisions by the Tenant(s) or his/her successors and/or assigns shall create an immediate liability on the part of the undersigned to the Landlord and his/her successors and/or assigns. Landlord needs not first exhaust their legal remedies against Tenant(s) or his/her successors and/or assigns before proceeding against the undersigned. Landlord is not required to notify the undersigned or Tenant(s) of Tenant's failure to pay rent or perform as aforesaid.

The Guarantor further agrees that this guarantee shall remain and continue in full force and effect as to any renewal, change or extension of the Lease. The laws of the State of New York shall govern the interpretation of this agreement and any dispute relating to it. Landlord and the undersigned agrees to the sole jurisdiction and venue of the courts located in the county of Kings, State of New York.

As a further inducement to Owner to make the Lease Owner and Guarantor against the other on any matter concerning the Lease or of this Guaranty that Owner and the undersigned shall and do waive trial by jury.
Now, IANAL, but it seems that I'm a guarantor for all 3 tenants (my quick google search says this is standard) but it also seems to suggest that I would continue to be a guarantor after any renewals, changes, or extensions of the lease. It sounds like if my DD decides to move out at the end of the lease, I would still be guarantor for the other two roommates.

Am I reading that correctly? If so, any thoughts on how I should suggest a change to the lease? I was thinking something like "The Guarantee only remains in effect while DD is a named tenant on the lease". Or to strike the "renewal, changes, or extensions" of the lease clause.
Last edited by 986racer on Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
LotsaGray
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by LotsaGray »

IANAL but I am trained in civil law. Here for certain, and I would expect everywhere, the Guarantor call always with proper notice terminate the agreement (technically a contract). At which point the the owner in this case could take actions such as requiring a new Guarantor, 'evict' DD, etc. So here, you definitely would have an out. Likely (but I have not looked) only a Affidavit of Notice of the same form as the original (probably just the form of private signature.)

Also were DD to move out, I expect (and she likely should insist) that she be removed from the lease. in fact a completely new lease between Land Lord and remaining (and new?) tenants would be even better. At that point, since you only guaranteed for your DD and she was not longer on the lease you would no longer be a guarantor of the lease.

If your DD decided to stay in the apt. after this lease expired. She should consider rather than extending or simply renewing (or the auto default for NY) getting a new lease. At that time, she will have her own history, particularly with this LL, so she likely would not need your guarantee on this new lease . If she moved, it might be a different story.

As to being joint and severable, since owner is renting the whole apt. to all three in whole, yes it makes sense you are guaranteeing the entire rent. Your DD could not decide she was only paying her 1/3rd. If anyone doesn't pay their share, the Landlord can get the money from either or both the other two and thus their guarantors also.

Now if this was an old fashioned rooming house where DD had a room and shared access to some commons (maybe kitchen or bathroom or maybe just a communal space, the J&S clause would be much less likely.

But again, IANAL. This is not legal advice. And I know nothing specific as to the laws and practices of NY or Kings County. I am not recommending for or against you deciding to sign or not.
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Jimbo Moneybags
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by Jimbo Moneybags »

Perhaps DD should consider looking at alternatives, even sharing an AirBNB, until she has enough employment history to qualify without a guarantor or cosigner.

I'd never sign an agreement like that, particularly since you will be on the hook for any money due as a result of the fault of your DD's roommate(s). Always best not to cosign, there are always other options which may just require her to expend additional effort to find.
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986racer
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by 986racer »

LotsaGray wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:07 am IANAL but I am trained in civil law. Here for certain, and I would expect everywhere, the Guarantor call always with proper notice terminate the agreement (technically a contract). At which point the the owner in this case could take actions such as requiring a new Guarantor, 'evict' DD, etc. So here, you definitely would have an out. Likely (but I have not looked) only a Affidavit of Notice of the same form as the original (probably just the form of private signature.)

Also were DD to move out, I expect (and she likely should insist) that she be removed from the lease. in fact a completely new lease between Land Lord and remaining (and new?) tenants would be even better. At that point, since you only guaranteed for your DD and she was not longer on the lease you would no longer be a guarantor of the lease.

If your DD decided to stay in the apt. after this lease expired. She should consider rather than extending or simply renewing (or the auto default for NY) getting a new lease. At that time, she will have her own history, particularly with this LL, so she likely would not need your guarantee on this new lease . If she moved, it might be a different story.

As to being joint and severable, since owner is renting the whole apt. to all three in whole, yes it makes sense you are guaranteeing the entire rent. Your DD could not decide she was only paying her 1/3rd. If anyone doesn't pay their share, the Landlord can get the money from either or both the other two and thus their guarantors also.

Now if this was an old fashioned rooming house where DD had a room and shared access to some commons (maybe kitchen or bathroom or maybe just a communal space, the J&S clause would be much less likely.

But again, IANAL. This is not legal advice. And I know nothing specific as to the laws and practices of NY or Kings County. I am not recommending for or against you deciding to sign or not.
Yes, the google search I did suggests that the J&S applies because the landlord is renting one apartment. As such, the landlord doesn't care how the split-up of the rent is done, he just wants to be paid the full amount. As such, each guarantor is guaranteeing the full amount.

My main concern is the language about "the guarantee shall remain and continue in full force and effect as to any renewal, change, or extension of the Lease." What does that really mean? My interpretation is that if in a year's time, my DD gets a different apartment and someone new takes her spot, that could be considered a change of the lease (as opposed to a new lease). I would therefore still be guaranteeing the other two roommates. Obviously that wouldn't be acceptable
privateID
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by privateID »

986racer wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:33 am My main concern is the language about "the guarantee shall remain and continue in full force and effect as to any renewal, change, or extension of the Lease." What does that really mean? My interpretation is that if in a year's time, my DD gets a different apartment and someone new takes her spot, that could be considered a change of the lease (as opposed to a new lease). I would therefore still be guaranteeing the other two roommates. Obviously that wouldn't be acceptable
I would certainly hope that is not the case.

I signed a similar document for my daughter who rents in Manhattan. Although I was not totally comfortable, I think as a parent it is something one should do (assuming they trust their child).
desiderium
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by desiderium »

This is all standard practice in NYC and I don’t think there are any good alternatives if DD wants the apartment. Things move fast in NY and the brokers aren’t going to waste any time on your contract. Assess your risk and terms for exiting the agreement when DD moves on and make a decision.
privateID
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by privateID »

One future thing to be concerned about is when your child moves out. In my child's case, his friends kept the apartment. This thread got me thinking that maybe he needed to proactively remove my name (especially giving the wording, which probably is standard).
artgerst
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by artgerst »

desiderium wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:38 am This is all standard practice in NYC and I don’t think there are any good alternatives if DD wants the apartment. Things move fast in NY and the brokers aren’t going to waste any time on your contract. Assess your risk and terms for exiting the agreement when DD moves on and make a decision.
+1

Having been in the same situation as a guarantor in NYC, you really are stuck (sorry) and you learn to just deal with it. Best just to make sure your information is being stored safely and the eyes that see your info is kept to a minimum. Do your due diligence (google searches) to see if the company is mostly legit - again you are stuck. These places raise the rent 50% the following year so you'll be stuck doing this again next year when she moves into a new place. It's an endless frustrating cycle unless she gets lucky and gets into a rent stabilized place.
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986racer
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by 986racer »

artgerst wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:50 am
desiderium wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:38 am This is all standard practice in NYC and I don’t think there are any good alternatives if DD wants the apartment. Things move fast in NY and the brokers aren’t going to waste any time on your contract. Assess your risk and terms for exiting the agreement when DD moves on and make a decision.
+1

Having been in the same situation as a guarantor in NYC, you really are stuck (sorry) and you learn to just deal with it. Best just to make sure your information is being stored safely and the eyes that see your info is kept to a minimum. Do your due diligence (google searches) to see if the company is mostly legit - again you are stuck. These places raise the rent 50% the following year so you'll be stuck doing this again next year when she moves into a new place. It's an endless frustrating cycle unless she gets lucky and gets into a rent stabilized place.
Yes.... I was lucky when I first moved to NYC and got immediately into a rent stabilized place. Not sure if my employer did something, but I was able to sign the lease then (decades ago) without a guarantor.
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Jimbo Moneybags
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by Jimbo Moneybags »

986racer wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:33 am My main concern is the language about "the guarantee shall remain and continue in full force and effect as to any renewal, change, or extension of the Lease." What does that really mean? My interpretation is that if in a year's time, my DD gets a different apartment and someone new takes her spot, that could be considered a change of the lease (as opposed to a new lease). I would therefore still be guaranteeing the other two roommates. Obviously that wouldn't be acceptable
It means that until and unless the landlord agrees to release you from the guarantee or the apartment is vacated, you are financially responsible in the event of any default. That includes non-payment of rent and any other provision of the lease. The only other way to resolve it is to give legally sufficient notice as may be required that upon expiration, the current lease will not be renewed. Then it would be up to any remaining roommates to enter into a new agreement, if they so choose. But even then, if they neglected to enter into a new lease but remained in the apartment, you'd still be liable for the hold-over even if your daughter had already moved out.

So you are guaranteeing the performance of your daughter AND her roommates. I'd suggest you think long and hard about this. Issues with roommates is NOT uncommon with young adults. For example, one decides to move in with her boyfriend or gets married. Or one decides NYC isn't for her and leaves the city. Or one loses her job and can't pay. One could have a spending problem or simply be irresponsible with money and leave you and your daughter holding the bag. Unless you are prepared to pay, in full, the entirety of the rent that would be owed by both of the other roommates during the entire lease term PLUS any damages they might cause to the apartment, I'd let your adult daughter work to find another solution. But that's me. :beer
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by Vulcan »

986racer wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:38 am My DD just graduated and is going to rent an apartment in NYC with 2 other roommates. The lease starts after she will have only one pay cycle at her job... As such, the landlord is asking for a guarantor (the other 2 tenants also have guarantors).
DS was able to lease an apartment without guarantors, before his first day at his first job, based on the offer letter and savings, in a large doorman building on the UWS (I started a thread about it last fall, and the BH community really came through with their recommendations).

In helping him with search and negotiations, we offered to prepay any number of months, but the building management said they'd first try to approve him as is, and they did.

What exactly is your DD lacking, other than it being her first job? If her income is sufficient for their requirements, perhaps you could try to offer to prepay the lease (her proportion, in your case) if that is feasible for you.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
artgerst
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by artgerst »

Vulcan wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:13 am
986racer wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:38 am My DD just graduated and is going to rent an apartment in NYC with 2 other roommates. The lease starts after she will have only one pay cycle at her job... As such, the landlord is asking for a guarantor (the other 2 tenants also have guarantors).
DS was able to lease an apartment without guarantors, before his first day at his first job, based on the offer letter and savings, in a large doorman building on the UWS (I started a thread about it last fall, and the BH community really came through with their recommendations).

In helping him with search and negotiations, we offered to prepay any number of months, but the building management said they'd first try to approve him as is, and they did.

What exactly is your DD lacking, other than it being her first job? If her income is sufficient for their requirements, perhaps you could try to offer to prepay the lease (her proportion, in your case) if that is feasible for you.
You can no longer legally prepay: https://propertyclub.nyc/article/what-i ... one-in-nyc
Because of the craziness now in NYC some are looking for 80x monthly rent vs 40x. (i.e., 2k rent needs to have a salary of 160k)
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Vulcan
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by Vulcan »

artgerst wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:29 am You can no longer legally prepay: https://propertyclub.nyc/article/what-i ... one-in-nyc
Because of the craziness now in NYC some are looking for 80x monthly rent vs 40x. (i.e., 2k rent needs to have a salary of 160k)
"While you can no longer pre-pay your rent to a landlord, you should have no trouble qualifying for a guarantor service in NYC if you have the funds to pre-pay rent."

So that may be an option for OP.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
gips
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by gips »

we did this for each of our three kids with no issues. they are all on their second apts and we no longer had to provide a guarantee. We looked into guarantee services but there was a $2.5k fee.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by LotsaGray »

986racer wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:33 am
LotsaGray wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:07 am IANAL but I am trained in civil law. Here for certain, and I would expect everywhere, the Guarantor call always with proper notice terminate the agreement (technically a contract). At which point the the owner in this case could take actions such as requiring a new Guarantor, 'evict' DD, etc. So here, you definitely would have an out. Likely (but I have not looked) only a Affidavit of Notice of the same form as the original (probably just the form of private signature.)

Also were DD to move out, I expect (and she likely should insist) that she be removed from the lease. in fact a completely new lease between Land Lord and remaining (and new?) tenants would be even better. At that point, since you only guaranteed for your DD and she was not longer on the lease you would no longer be a guarantor of the lease.

If your DD decided to stay in the apt. after this lease expired. She should consider rather than extending or simply renewing (or the auto default for NY) getting a new lease. At that time, she will have her own history, particularly with this LL, so she likely would not need your guarantee on this new lease . If she moved, it might be a different story.

As to being joint and severable, since owner is renting the whole apt. to all three in whole, yes it makes sense you are guaranteeing the entire rent. Your DD could not decide she was only paying her 1/3rd. If anyone doesn't pay their share, the Landlord can get the money from either or both the other two and thus their guarantors also.

Now if this was an old fashioned rooming house where DD had a room and shared access to some commons (maybe kitchen or bathroom or maybe just a communal space, the J&S clause would be much less likely.

But again, IANAL. This is not legal advice. And I know nothing specific as to the laws and practices of NY or Kings County. I am not recommending for or against you deciding to sign or not.
Yes, the google search I did suggests that the J&S applies because the landlord is renting one apartment. As such, the landlord doesn't care how the split-up of the rent is done, he just wants to be paid the full amount. As such, each guarantor is guaranteeing the full amount.

My main concern is the language about "the guarantee shall remain and continue in full force and effect as to any renewal, change, or extension of the Lease." What does that really mean? My interpretation is that if in a year's time, my DD gets a different apartment and someone new takes her spot, that could be considered a change of the lease (as opposed to a new lease). I would therefore still be guaranteeing the other two roommates. Obviously that wouldn't be acceptable
ermin

As stated IANAL and definitely not a NY attorney. IMO which is really worth as much as you are not paying, if your daughter is not on the lease then she did not renew. Does the obligation document show WHO you are guarantying? If so and if that person is not a party to the lease as renewed then clear reading would say you are not guaranteeing that new lease. But if you are still uncomfortable as or have DD ask LL what document is required for you to cancel your guarantee. It is a legal agreement between you and LL; a contract. As such it has a way to be terminated.

I could look this up for my state but as we use Civil Law not Common Law this is likely not the same as NY law. Worst case have DD contact a lawyer, legal aid or the housing commission in NY and as them how this would be terminated.What I do know is you can certainly end an agreement between yourself and the LL regardless if DD is still there or not. Of course LL would then potentially have the right to evict her but since she was already gone everything he could do would be moot.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by livelovelaugh00 »

Jimbo Moneybags wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:12 am Perhaps DD should consider looking at alternatives, even sharing an AirBNB, until she has enough employment history to qualify without a guarantor or cosigner.

I'd never sign an agreement like that, particularly since you will be on the hook for any money due as a result of the fault of your DD's roommate(s). Always best not to cosign, there are always other options which may just require her to expend additional effort to find.
My DD shared airbnb last summer in Manhattan for two months when she did internship. This spring she rented and signed lease for her own place. She didn't ask me to co-sign anything. I won't co-sign anything even if she asked. I'd prompt her to look for alternatives.
PeterA007
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by PeterA007 »

Can anyone recommend a guarantor service? My daughter is in the same boat. For a personal guarantee for her I need to show 80x rent ($560,000) as income which I dont have.


https://theguarantors.com/renters ???
WhyNotUs
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by WhyNotUs »

PeterA007 wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:14 pm Can anyone recommend a guarantor service? My daughter is in the same boat. For a personal guarantee for her I need to show 80x rent ($560,000) as income which I dont have.


https://theguarantors.com/renters ???
That is a new one on me, are you sure that you read that right?

I went back and forth with my daughter's first Brooklyn landlord over this issue several years ago and they made a couple modest alterations and then said "sign it or it goes to the next renter". I signed reluctantly.
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thousandaire
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by thousandaire »

WhyNotUs wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:21 pm
PeterA007 wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:14 pm Can anyone recommend a guarantor service? My daughter is in the same boat. For a personal guarantee for her I need to show 80x rent ($560,000) as income which I dont have.


https://theguarantors.com/renters ???
That is a new one on me, are you sure that you read that right?

I went back and forth with my daughter's first Brooklyn landlord over this issue several years ago and they made a couple modest alterations and then said "sign it or it goes to the next renter". I signed reluctantly.
I live in NYC; 40x required for lessees, 80x required for guarantors is quite common. I transferred my lease to two college students and my building management required 80x from one guarantor (the girls couldn't even combine two sets of parents).

I asked the building why 80x, out of curiosity? Apparently the logic is that because the guarantor likely has their own mortgage/rent to pay, a higher threshold is needed to ensure that they can afford two housing payments if called upon.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by CHXRAVEN »

I'm in the middle of a similar scenario right now. DS, a recent college graduate, starts a job this fall in Manhattan and found an apartment to share with two other roomates in Brooklyn. The other two roomates are in a current lease covering this apartment that expires in two weeks. My son is replacing a current third roomate. Landlord wants a new lease - fine. All three current roomates had their respective parents last year provide a lease guaranty. Same this time around, including one now required for my son. Learning this is common practice in NY, I reluctantly agreed. Filled out an application, which included providing my most recent tax return. I'm retired and frankly proud at how low I'm able to keep my income ($125k). The landlord rejected my guarantor application, stating I needed 80x rent ($160k). My financial profile summary is: taxable acct liquid investments at $5 mil (including $1 mil cash/equiv), 401k accounts at $2 mil; zero debt; 800 credit score, own a $2 million home. I offered to provide the landlord a letter from Fidelity showing proof of funds, including the $1 mil cash/equivalents. Landlord rejected this offer, demanding more "income." Landlord next says DS can only move forward if he secures a a 3rd party guarantor. We secure the 3rd party guarantee ($4,200!!, covering all 3 roomates). Now the landlord is insisting that the parental guarantees are necessary in addition to the 3rd party guarantee. Crazy. Unreasonable. I might relent but if so it will be a one time "help launch the college grad" moment.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by mikejuss »

Just make sure the other 2 roommates have their own separate guarantors, OP, as I've never heard of having more than one guarantor on a lease. Let someone else's parents sign off on this rental.
Last edited by mikejuss on Tue May 14, 2024 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by mikejuss »

PeterA007 wrote: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:14 pm Can anyone recommend a guarantor service? My daughter is in the same boat. For a personal guarantee for her I need to show 80x rent ($560,000) as income which I dont have.


https://theguarantors.com/renters ???
Your daughter might need to find an apartment that's less than $7,000 per month.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by mikejuss »

Jimbo Moneybags wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:58 am So you are guaranteeing the performance of your daughter AND her roommates. I'd suggest you think long and hard about this. Issues with roommates is NOT uncommon with young adults.
This.
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rogue_economist
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by rogue_economist »

I wouldn't touch this with a 39 1/2 foot pole.

NYC is stupidly tenant friendly, and in this case that means your daughter's roommates are a serious liability in the event things go south. What happens if they won't pay or move out and you are stuck being financially responsible for the mess?

I'd tell your daughter she has to find something that she can rent on her own, nothing wrong with some personal responsibility and it will save you from getting stuck in some quagmire with roommates that aren't even old enough to rent a car.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by muffins14 »

the 40x is for the sum of all roommates income. So if 3 people want to rent a $7k apartment, they need to make $93k each, on average. It would be reasonable for many first-year professionals to be making this out of college, or at least one of the 3 may be able to carry more weight.

If they can't make 40x, they should look for something more affordable. It's a form of delayed gratification - live by your own means, and don't take shortcuts. There are many neighborhoods to choose from

If I were in the situation and really wanted to help, I would potentially have the person qualify for their own apartment via the 40x between roommates, and then send them some monthly money to help cover costs, or some kind of annual payment that you intend for them to invest for the future.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by exodusNH »

986racer wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:38 am My DD just graduated and is going to rent an apartment in NYC with 2 other roommates. The lease starts after she will have only one pay cycle at her job... As such, the landlord is asking for a guarantor (the other 2 tenants also have guarantors). The lease reads as follows
In consideration of Landlord agreeing to lease to __________________________________ (Tenant(s) the dwelling unit address_________________________ (Apartment Address) as stated in lease dated _____________ by and between ___________________________ (Landlord) and ___________________ Tenant(s) the undersigned, hereby waiving the obligations of the homestead exemption laws as to this lease, jointly and severally if there be more than one undersigned, guarantee the payment of rent and the performance of all the provisions of this lease by Tenant(s), his/her successors and/or assigns, and agree that the mere non-payment of rent and non-performance of said provisions by the Tenant(s) or his/her successors and/or assigns shall create an immediate liability on the part of the undersigned to the Landlord and his/her successors and/or assigns. Landlord needs not first exhaust their legal remedies against Tenant(s) or his/her successors and/or assigns before proceeding against the undersigned. Landlord is not required to notify the undersigned or Tenant(s) of Tenant's failure to pay rent or perform as aforesaid.

The Guarantor further agrees that this guarantee shall remain and continue in full force and effect as to any renewal, change or extension of the Lease. The laws of the State of New York shall govern the interpretation of this agreement and any dispute relating to it. Landlord and the undersigned agrees to the sole jurisdiction and venue of the courts located in the county of Kings, State of New York.

As a further inducement to Owner to make the Lease Owner and Guarantor against the other on any matter concerning the Lease or of this Guaranty that Owner and the undersigned shall and do waive trial by jury.
Now, IANAL, but it seems that I'm a guarantor for all 3 tenants (my quick google search says this is standard) but it also seems to suggest that I would continue to be a guarantor after any renewals, changes, or extensions of the lease. It sounds like if my DD decides to move out at the end of the lease, I would still be guarantor for the other two roommates.

Am I reading that correctly? If so, any thoughts on how I should suggest a change to the lease? I was thinking something like "The Guarantee only remains in effect while DD is a named tenant on the lease". Or to strike the "renewal, changes, or extensions" of the lease clause.
There's a link below to institutional guarantors. It might be worth to pay the fee for that so that you're not on the hook for others.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by Areliax »

My parents were not comfortable handing over their financial information to a NYC landlord (is that part of being a guarantor?) so they just paid the year’s rent for me upfront and then I paid them back monthly from my paycheck. This was not a roommate situation.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by exodusNH »

Areliax wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 4:52 pm My parents were not comfortable handing over their financial information to a NYC landlord (is that part of being a guarantor?) so they just paid the year’s rent for me upfront and then I paid them back monthly from my paycheck. This was not a roommate situation.
New York doesn't permit that anymore.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by leeks »

artgerst wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:50 am
desiderium wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:38 am This is all standard practice in NYC and I don’t think there are any good alternatives if DD wants the apartment. Things move fast in NY and the brokers aren’t going to waste any time on your contract. Assess your risk and terms for exiting the agreement when DD moves on and make a decision.
+1

Having been in the same situation as a guarantor in NYC, you really are stuck (sorry) and you learn to just deal with it. Best just to make sure your information is being stored safely and the eyes that see your info is kept to a minimum. Do your due diligence (google searches) to see if the company is mostly legit - again you are stuck. These places raise the rent 50% the following year so you'll be stuck doing this again next year when she moves into a new place. It's an endless frustrating cycle unless she gets lucky and gets into a rent stabilized place.
You are not stuck and you do not have to deal with it. You can say no. Lots of people do not have wealthy parents to guarantee things. They figure it out. It is not the end of the world if the kid has to rent in Brooklyn or Queens.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by leeks »

CHXRAVEN wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:57 pm I'm in the middle of a similar scenario right now. DS, a recent college graduate, starts a job this fall in Manhattan and found an apartment to share with two other roomates in Brooklyn. The other two roomates are in a current lease covering this apartment that expires in two weeks. My son is replacing a current third roomate. Landlord wants a new lease - fine. All three current roomates had their respective parents last year provide a lease guaranty. Same this time around, including one now required for my son. Learning this is common practice in NY, I reluctantly agreed. Filled out an application, which included providing my most recent tax return. I'm retired and frankly proud at how low I'm able to keep my income ($125k). The landlord rejected my guarantor application, stating I needed 80x rent ($160k). My financial profile summary is: taxable acct liquid investments at $5 mil (including $1 mil cash/equiv), 401k accounts at $2 mil; zero debt; 800 credit score, own a $2 million home. I offered to provide the landlord a letter from Fidelity showing proof of funds, including the $1 mil cash/equivalents. Landlord rejected this offer, demanding more "income." Landlord next says DS can only move forward if he secures a a 3rd party guarantor. We secure the 3rd party guarantee ($4,200!!, covering all 3 roomates). Now the landlord is insisting that the parental guarantees are necessary in addition to the 3rd party guarantee. Crazy. Unreasonable. I might relent but if so it will be a one time "help launch the college grad" moment.
Just say no to all this nonsense and let the child find a different apartment qualifying based only on personal income.

I can see parents maybe choosing to do this for a college or graduate student. But if the child is employed full-time, and still needs a guarantor, the child cannot afford the apartment. If the parents really want to help, they can gift money up-front for security deposit/furnishings/etc.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by artgerst »

leeks wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 5:11 pm
CHXRAVEN wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:57 pm I'm in the middle of a similar scenario right now. DS, a recent college graduate, starts a job this fall in Manhattan and found an apartment to share with two other roomates in Brooklyn. The other two roomates are in a current lease covering this apartment that expires in two weeks. My son is replacing a current third roomate. Landlord wants a new lease - fine. All three current roomates had their respective parents last year provide a lease guaranty. Same this time around, including one now required for my son. Learning this is common practice in NY, I reluctantly agreed. Filled out an application, which included providing my most recent tax return. I'm retired and frankly proud at how low I'm able to keep my income ($125k). The landlord rejected my guarantor application, stating I needed 80x rent ($160k). My financial profile summary is: taxable acct liquid investments at $5 mil (including $1 mil cash/equiv), 401k accounts at $2 mil; zero debt; 800 credit score, own a $2 million home. I offered to provide the landlord a letter from Fidelity showing proof of funds, including the $1 mil cash/equivalents. Landlord rejected this offer, demanding more "income." Landlord next says DS can only move forward if he secures a a 3rd party guarantor. We secure the 3rd party guarantee ($4,200!!, covering all 3 roomates). Now the landlord is insisting that the parental guarantees are necessary in addition to the 3rd party guarantee. Crazy. Unreasonable. I might relent but if so it will be a one time "help launch the college grad" moment.
Just say no to all this nonsense and let the child find a different apartment qualifying based only on personal income.

I can see parents maybe choosing to do this for a college or graduate student. But if the child is employed full-time, and still needs a guarantor, the child cannot afford the apartment. If the parents really want to help, they can gift money up-front for security deposit/furnishings/etc.
It would be great if it worked that way. The reality of apartment renting in NYC (and this includes Brooklyn and Queens) is that these management companies do what they want and what they want, regardless of whether or not a newly employed kid from college has enough income is that they want a guarantor when there is a lack of employment history. Sure, it would seem logical just to say no and go elsewhere, but you are saddled with the decision of helping your child stay in some relatively safe place/apartment with using yourself as a guarantor or letting them find a place where it doesn't matter which tends to be a much less safe place. Part of the issue is that NYC very much favors the tenants and not the landlords and therefore these landlords (really the management companies) go the extra distance to make sure they are going to get paid.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by muffins14 »

artgerst wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 2:21 pm

It would be great if it worked that way. The reality of apartment renting in NYC (and this includes Brooklyn and Queens) is that these management companies do what they want and what they want, regardless of whether or not a newly employed kid from college has enough income is that they want a guarantor when there is a lack of employment history. Sure, it would seem logical just to say no and go elsewhere, but you are saddled with the decision of helping your child stay in some relatively safe place/apartment with using yourself as a guarantor or letting them find a place where it doesn't matter which tends to be a much less safe place. Part of the issue is that NYC very much favors the tenants and not the landlords and therefore these landlords (really the management companies) go the extra distance to make sure they are going to get paid.
I disagree - If they have the 40x income, they can get the apartment.

They can find plenty of safe places that are within their income. There are many perfectly safe neighborhoods that don't require a parent to subsidize their child... the median income in NYC is 76k for the household, and I assure you that the majority of these are not recent grads earning 76k whose parents are paying or guaranteeing your rent. It's not like money buys you infinite safety in any place in any country.

There are apartments with no management company, also
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by retire2022 »

Op

Urelated adults cannot legally live together (edited)

Here is an Atlanta article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/arch ... on/674117/

An older NYTimes article from 2010:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/nyre ... '%20safety.
Last edited by retire2022 on Thu May 16, 2024 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by muffins14 »

retire2022 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 3:50 pm Op

Two or more unrelated adults cannot legally live together

Here is an Atlanta article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/arch ... on/674117/

An older NYTimes article from 2010:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/nyre ... '%20safety.
This is clearly not enforced.

Anyway, the OP specifically said 3 total roommates, not > 3, so even this unenforced law does not apply.
Last edited by muffins14 on Thu May 16, 2024 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by retire2022 »

muffins14 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 3:57 pm
retire2022 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 3:50 pm Op

Two or more unrelated adults cannot legally live together

Here is an Atlanta article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/arch ... on/674117/

An older NYTimes article from 2010:

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/nyre ... '%20safety.
This is clearly not enforced.
Yes so is jaywalking
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by muffins14 »

retire2022 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 3:50 pm Op

Two or more unrelated adults cannot legally live together
To clarify, the number in your article seems to say 4 or more, not 2 or more
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retire2022
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by retire2022 »

muffins14 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 4:06 pm
retire2022 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 3:50 pm Op

Two or more unrelated adults cannot legally live together
To clarify, the number in your article seems to say 4 or more, not 2 or more
Corrected
muffins14
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by muffins14 »

retire2022 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 4:09 pm
muffins14 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 4:06 pm
retire2022 wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 3:50 pm Op

Two or more unrelated adults cannot legally live together
To clarify, the number in your article seems to say 4 or more, not 2 or more
Corrected
It seems like you edited it to be less clear, rather than more clear?

The original, that 2 or more could not live together, was incorrect.
The new version "Urelated adults cannot legally live together (edited)" is also incorrect.

The correct law states that 4 or more unrelated people cannot occupy a unit. Again, this is not really enforced anyway.
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Amien
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by Amien »

You can request modifications to guarantor contract, to limit it to specific lease term. It can be re-executed if your daughter renews lease, and actually still needs guarantor.

These agreements are common in NYC, but can expensively backfire on guarantor. Be sure you meet roommates and suss them out before agreeing to assume full guarantor obligation.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by Amien »

You can request modifications to guarantor contract, to limit it to specific lease term. It can be re-executed if your daughter renews lease, and actually still needs guarantor.

These agreements are common in NYC, but can expensively backfire on guarantor. Be sure you meet roommates and suss them out before agreeing to assume full guarantor obligation.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by leeks »

artgerst wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 2:21 pm
leeks wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 5:11 pm
CHXRAVEN wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:57 pm I'm in the middle of a similar scenario right now. DS, a recent college graduate, starts a job this fall in Manhattan and found an apartment to share with two other roomates in Brooklyn. The other two roomates are in a current lease covering this apartment that expires in two weeks. My son is replacing a current third roomate. Landlord wants a new lease - fine. All three current roomates had their respective parents last year provide a lease guaranty. Same this time around, including one now required for my son. Learning this is common practice in NY, I reluctantly agreed. Filled out an application, which included providing my most recent tax return. I'm retired and frankly proud at how low I'm able to keep my income ($125k). The landlord rejected my guarantor application, stating I needed 80x rent ($160k). My financial profile summary is: taxable acct liquid investments at $5 mil (including $1 mil cash/equiv), 401k accounts at $2 mil; zero debt; 800 credit score, own a $2 million home. I offered to provide the landlord a letter from Fidelity showing proof of funds, including the $1 mil cash/equivalents. Landlord rejected this offer, demanding more "income." Landlord next says DS can only move forward if he secures a a 3rd party guarantor. We secure the 3rd party guarantee ($4,200!!, covering all 3 roomates). Now the landlord is insisting that the parental guarantees are necessary in addition to the 3rd party guarantee. Crazy. Unreasonable. I might relent but if so it will be a one time "help launch the college grad" moment.
Just say no to all this nonsense and let the child find a different apartment qualifying based only on personal income.

I can see parents maybe choosing to do this for a college or graduate student. But if the child is employed full-time, and still needs a guarantor, the child cannot afford the apartment. If the parents really want to help, they can gift money up-front for security deposit/furnishings/etc.
It would be great if it worked that way. The reality of apartment renting in NYC (and this includes Brooklyn and Queens) is that these management companies do what they want and what they want, regardless of whether or not a newly employed kid from college has enough income is that they want a guarantor when there is a lack of employment history. Sure, it would seem logical just to say no and go elsewhere, but you are saddled with the decision of helping your child stay in some relatively safe place/apartment with using yourself as a guarantor or letting them find a place where it doesn't matter which tends to be a much less safe place. Part of the issue is that NYC very much favors the tenants and not the landlords and therefore these landlords (really the management companies) go the extra distance to make sure they are going to get paid.
I have rented multiple apartments in both Brooklyn and Queens and never had a guarantor. The first time my then-boyfriend (now husband) and I moved to Brooklyn, neither of us even had jobs. We just used prior-tax returns (which were not high income) and four months rent up front (broker fee + security deposit + first month's rent + "last month's rent") to overcome the lack of employment.

Not having a guarantor does not mean you have to live in a less safe neighborhood. It may be the difference between a fancy apartment these young people can't actually afford on their own and a modest, smaller, older one they can qualify for on their own. You don't have to rent from a big management company. There are tons of small landlords in Brooklyn and Queens.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by investorpeter »

leeks wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 5:11 pm
CHXRAVEN wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:57 pm I'm in the middle of a similar scenario right now. DS, a recent college graduate, starts a job this fall in Manhattan and found an apartment to share with two other roomates in Brooklyn. The other two roomates are in a current lease covering this apartment that expires in two weeks. My son is replacing a current third roomate. Landlord wants a new lease - fine. All three current roomates had their respective parents last year provide a lease guaranty. Same this time around, including one now required for my son. Learning this is common practice in NY, I reluctantly agreed. Filled out an application, which included providing my most recent tax return. I'm retired and frankly proud at how low I'm able to keep my income ($125k). The landlord rejected my guarantor application, stating I needed 80x rent ($160k). My financial profile summary is: taxable acct liquid investments at $5 mil (including $1 mil cash/equiv), 401k accounts at $2 mil; zero debt; 800 credit score, own a $2 million home. I offered to provide the landlord a letter from Fidelity showing proof of funds, including the $1 mil cash/equivalents. Landlord rejected this offer, demanding more "income." Landlord next says DS can only move forward if he secures a a 3rd party guarantor. We secure the 3rd party guarantee ($4,200!!, covering all 3 roomates). Now the landlord is insisting that the parental guarantees are necessary in addition to the 3rd party guarantee. Crazy. Unreasonable. I might relent but if so it will be a one time "help launch the college grad" moment.
Just say no to all this nonsense and let the child find a different apartment qualifying based only on personal income.

I can see parents maybe choosing to do this for a college or graduate student. But if the child is employed full-time, and still needs a guarantor, the child cannot afford the apartment. If the parents really want to help, they can gift money up-front for security deposit/furnishings/etc.
Sadly, this is the reality of renting in NYC for a new grad. You can pass on this one, but the next place you find will almost certainly have the same requirement. Meanwhile you are wasting time looking for an acceptable apartment as your job start date gets closer and closer. Finding a nice apartment in NYC is much like job hunting during a recession. For every nice apartment at a reasonable price, there will be dozens of applicants, all desperate to get that apartment. You must be prepared to act fast and sell yourself. Have your proof of income / guarantors lined up, references lined up, checkbook available to pay the application and credit check fee immediately, and then make sure you have the funds in your checking account to pay first month rent and security deposit (and broker fee if applicable) immediately after your application is approved. Any hesitation, delay, back-tracking on these required steps, and you will likely lose the apartment to the next person on the list. I see this over and over with new grads in the city. It takes a few lost apartments before one realizes that you either have to jump through the hoops to get a nice apartment, or you have to settle for a less desirable apartment.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by WhyNotUs »

My daughter lived in Brooklyn for 4 years before I was off the hook as guarantor. I did not like it but my first priority was that she get an apartment that felt safe and was near train station.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by leeks »

investorpeter wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 7:33 pm
leeks wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 5:11 pm
CHXRAVEN wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:57 pm I'm in the middle of a similar scenario right now. DS, a recent college graduate, starts a job this fall in Manhattan and found an apartment to share with two other roomates in Brooklyn. The other two roomates are in a current lease covering this apartment that expires in two weeks. My son is replacing a current third roomate. Landlord wants a new lease - fine. All three current roomates had their respective parents last year provide a lease guaranty. Same this time around, including one now required for my son. Learning this is common practice in NY, I reluctantly agreed. Filled out an application, which included providing my most recent tax return. I'm retired and frankly proud at how low I'm able to keep my income ($125k). The landlord rejected my guarantor application, stating I needed 80x rent ($160k). My financial profile summary is: taxable acct liquid investments at $5 mil (including $1 mil cash/equiv), 401k accounts at $2 mil; zero debt; 800 credit score, own a $2 million home. I offered to provide the landlord a letter from Fidelity showing proof of funds, including the $1 mil cash/equivalents. Landlord rejected this offer, demanding more "income." Landlord next says DS can only move forward if he secures a a 3rd party guarantor. We secure the 3rd party guarantee ($4,200!!, covering all 3 roomates). Now the landlord is insisting that the parental guarantees are necessary in addition to the 3rd party guarantee. Crazy. Unreasonable. I might relent but if so it will be a one time "help launch the college grad" moment.
Just say no to all this nonsense and let the child find a different apartment qualifying based only on personal income.

I can see parents maybe choosing to do this for a college or graduate student. But if the child is employed full-time, and still needs a guarantor, the child cannot afford the apartment. If the parents really want to help, they can gift money up-front for security deposit/furnishings/etc.
Sadly, this is the reality of renting in NYC for a new grad. You can pass on this one, but the next place you find will almost certainly have the same requirement. Meanwhile you are wasting time looking for an acceptable apartment as your job start date gets closer and closer. Finding a nice apartment in NYC is much like job hunting during a recession. For every nice apartment at a reasonable price, there will be dozens of applicants, all desperate to get that apartment. You must be prepared to act fast and sell yourself. Have your proof of income / guarantors lined up, references lined up, checkbook available to pay the application and credit check fee immediately, and then make sure you have the funds in your checking account to pay first month rent and security deposit (and broker fee if applicable) immediately after your application is approved. Any hesitation, delay, back-tracking on these required steps, and you will likely lose the apartment to the next person on the list. I see this over and over with new grads in the city. It takes a few lost apartments before one realizes that you either have to jump through the hoops to get a nice apartment, or you have to settle for a less desirable apartment.
I lived in NYC until 3 years ago. Yes, most people in NYC have to settle for a "less desirable" apartment in a farther-out location compared to what they would prefer. Most people's first apartments in NYC are not "nice" apartments.

A lot of people rent rooms at first from roommates who already have a lease. In addition to the myriad listings websites, such openings can be found through social networks: coworkers, friends of friends, college friends, etc. But a group of roommates who all have jobs will be able to rent some apartment based on their own income, probably smaller than they prefer and without luxuries like a dishwasher. 3-bedroom apartments in NYC are much rarer than 2-bedroom apartments. Maybe a group of 3 roommates gets a 2-bedroom apartment and they hang a curtain to use the living room as an additional bedroom. Maybe they have a 3-bedroom but a longer walk to the subway. Cramped imperfect housing is what moving to NYC is for normal people who don't have trust funds/rich parents.

Parents should not feel they have to be a guarantor just so their adult child can have a luxury apartment (luxury being relative to the NYC market). They can certainly do so if they want to. But it is not required to keep their child safe. The child can find a different option. The child chose to move to NYC where housing options are what they are. Parents should not feel pressure to get involved if it makes them uncomfortable or they feel it risks their own finances.
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by artgerst »

leeks wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 7:29 pm
artgerst wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 2:21 pm
leeks wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 5:11 pm
CHXRAVEN wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:57 pm I'm in the middle of a similar scenario right now. DS, a recent college graduate, starts a job this fall in Manhattan and found an apartment to share with two other roomates in Brooklyn. The other two roomates are in a current lease covering this apartment that expires in two weeks. My son is replacing a current third roomate. Landlord wants a new lease - fine. All three current roomates had their respective parents last year provide a lease guaranty. Same this time around, including one now required for my son. Learning this is common practice in NY, I reluctantly agreed. Filled out an application, which included providing my most recent tax return. I'm retired and frankly proud at how low I'm able to keep my income ($125k). The landlord rejected my guarantor application, stating I needed 80x rent ($160k). My financial profile summary is: taxable acct liquid investments at $5 mil (including $1 mil cash/equiv), 401k accounts at $2 mil; zero debt; 800 credit score, own a $2 million home. I offered to provide the landlord a letter from Fidelity showing proof of funds, including the $1 mil cash/equivalents. Landlord rejected this offer, demanding more "income." Landlord next says DS can only move forward if he secures a a 3rd party guarantor. We secure the 3rd party guarantee ($4,200!!, covering all 3 roomates). Now the landlord is insisting that the parental guarantees are necessary in addition to the 3rd party guarantee. Crazy. Unreasonable. I might relent but if so it will be a one time "help launch the college grad" moment.
Just say no to all this nonsense and let the child find a different apartment qualifying based only on personal income.

I can see parents maybe choosing to do this for a college or graduate student. But if the child is employed full-time, and still needs a guarantor, the child cannot afford the apartment. If the parents really want to help, they can gift money up-front for security deposit/furnishings/etc.
It would be great if it worked that way. The reality of apartment renting in NYC (and this includes Brooklyn and Queens) is that these management companies do what they want and what they want, regardless of whether or not a newly employed kid from college has enough income is that they want a guarantor when there is a lack of employment history. Sure, it would seem logical just to say no and go elsewhere, but you are saddled with the decision of helping your child stay in some relatively safe place/apartment with using yourself as a guarantor or letting them find a place where it doesn't matter which tends to be a much less safe place. Part of the issue is that NYC very much favors the tenants and not the landlords and therefore these landlords (really the management companies) go the extra distance to make sure they are going to get paid.
I have rented multiple apartments in both Brooklyn and Queens and never had a guarantor. The first time my then-boyfriend (now husband) and I moved to Brooklyn, neither of us even had jobs. We just used prior-tax returns (which were not high income) and four months rent up front (broker fee + security deposit + first month's rent + "last month's rent") to overcome the lack of employment.

Not having a guarantor does not mean you have to live in a less safe neighborhood. It may be the difference between a fancy apartment these young people can't actually afford on their own and a modest, smaller, older one they can qualify for on their own. You don't have to rent from a big management company. There are tons of small landlords in Brooklyn and Queens.
It sounds like this was years ago. Things have changed and certainly with Brooklyn rentals. It's no longer legal in NYS (for the landlord) to have the rent paid upfront. https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/c ... nt-law.pdf

I know we all would like to just assume that it's just some wealthy parent doing too much for their child. Believe me, my kids got jobs on their own and pay for their own rent, but when you are 22 or 25 (post grad) trying to find a place to live starting in the summer at the same time as thousands of other young people are vying for the same apartment you are in a tight position. You also to decide within 1 day and send a wire for the broker fee that's 10-15% on that same day (which they pay for from the work they did while going to college), you don't have any leverage and when they ask for a guarantor because you have no work history to speak of besides some internships, you are going to have your parent sign as a guarantor. There may be some private landlords where this doesn't apply but they typically won't rent to men. This is just the reality of living and working in NYC right after college.
investorpeter
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Re: Being a Guaranator for my DD NYC apartment

Post by investorpeter »

leeks wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 8:35 pm
investorpeter wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 7:33 pm
leeks wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 5:11 pm
CHXRAVEN wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 2:57 pm I'm in the middle of a similar scenario right now. DS, a recent college graduate, starts a job this fall in Manhattan and found an apartment to share with two other roomates in Brooklyn. The other two roomates are in a current lease covering this apartment that expires in two weeks. My son is replacing a current third roomate. Landlord wants a new lease - fine. All three current roomates had their respective parents last year provide a lease guaranty. Same this time around, including one now required for my son. Learning this is common practice in NY, I reluctantly agreed. Filled out an application, which included providing my most recent tax return. I'm retired and frankly proud at how low I'm able to keep my income ($125k). The landlord rejected my guarantor application, stating I needed 80x rent ($160k). My financial profile summary is: taxable acct liquid investments at $5 mil (including $1 mil cash/equiv), 401k accounts at $2 mil; zero debt; 800 credit score, own a $2 million home. I offered to provide the landlord a letter from Fidelity showing proof of funds, including the $1 mil cash/equivalents. Landlord rejected this offer, demanding more "income." Landlord next says DS can only move forward if he secures a a 3rd party guarantor. We secure the 3rd party guarantee ($4,200!!, covering all 3 roomates). Now the landlord is insisting that the parental guarantees are necessary in addition to the 3rd party guarantee. Crazy. Unreasonable. I might relent but if so it will be a one time "help launch the college grad" moment.
Just say no to all this nonsense and let the child find a different apartment qualifying based only on personal income.

I can see parents maybe choosing to do this for a college or graduate student. But if the child is employed full-time, and still needs a guarantor, the child cannot afford the apartment. If the parents really want to help, they can gift money up-front for security deposit/furnishings/etc.
Sadly, this is the reality of renting in NYC for a new grad. You can pass on this one, but the next place you find will almost certainly have the same requirement. Meanwhile you are wasting time looking for an acceptable apartment as your job start date gets closer and closer. Finding a nice apartment in NYC is much like job hunting during a recession. For every nice apartment at a reasonable price, there will be dozens of applicants, all desperate to get that apartment. You must be prepared to act fast and sell yourself. Have your proof of income / guarantors lined up, references lined up, checkbook available to pay the application and credit check fee immediately, and then make sure you have the funds in your checking account to pay first month rent and security deposit (and broker fee if applicable) immediately after your application is approved. Any hesitation, delay, back-tracking on these required steps, and you will likely lose the apartment to the next person on the list. I see this over and over with new grads in the city. It takes a few lost apartments before one realizes that you either have to jump through the hoops to get a nice apartment, or you have to settle for a less desirable apartment.
I lived in NYC until 3 years ago. Yes, most people in NYC have to settle for a "less desirable" apartment in a farther-out location compared to what they would prefer. Most people's first apartments in NYC are not "nice" apartments.

A lot of people rent rooms at first from roommates who already have a lease. In addition to the myriad listings websites, such openings can be found through social networks: coworkers, friends of friends, college friends, etc. But a group of roommates who all have jobs will be able to rent some apartment based on their own income, probably smaller than they prefer and without luxuries like a dishwasher. 3-bedroom apartments in NYC are much rarer than 2-bedroom apartments. Maybe a group of 3 roommates gets a 2-bedroom apartment and they hang a curtain to use the living room as an additional bedroom. Maybe they have a 3-bedroom but a longer walk to the subway. Cramped imperfect housing is what moving to NYC is for normal people who don't have trust funds/rich parents.

Parents should not feel they have to be a guarantor just so their adult child can have a luxury apartment (luxury being relative to the NYC market). They can certainly do so if they want to. But it is not required to keep their child safe. The child can find a different option. The child chose to move to NYC where housing options are what they are. Parents should not feel pressure to get involved if it makes them uncomfortable or they feel it risks their own finances.
That’s how I did it too a long time ago. There was no way we could afford Manhattan even back then, so we started looking in Brooklyn. But even then, all the apartments had something unusual about them - bathtub in the kitchen, 5th floor walkup, no living room, needing to walk through one bedroom to get to the other, etc. Ended up in Brooklyn and signing a lease with 2 other roommates. Then part way through the year the 2 roommates decided to leave without finding in a replacement. So we were sued by the landlord. I was the only one left and actually cared about my credit history so I had to find an attorney (ended up representing myself in court), find new roommates, come up with the remaining balance, etc. It was a learning experience. So roommates are not a great solution either, unless you can really trust them to be responsible. This is perhaps an important consideration for OP. How responsible are the other roommates and guarantors?

Personally, if I were going to be a guarantor for a child, I would be very hesitant to do it for a roommate situation.
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