Burnt out and looking for advice

[hambusin]

About me:
- 37 years old
- Married (wife 32); 3 year old child; would like to have one more
- $2M net worth (1.3M taxable; 600k retirement; 100k emergency fund)
- HHI: $425k; my income: $325k; wife's income: $100k
- Annual expenses: ~$100k
- Currently rent

I work as a lawyer at a company. Good resume and law degree from a top school. I've become extremely burnt out, depressed, and anxious. I dread going to work every day. I think I may be done with law, or would like to be done with law, but have no idea if that's a catastrophic financial mistake or what would be next.

It's been a long slog to $2M. It feels like more than most of our friends have, though at the same time maybe not that much.

I'd very much like to quit, take six months off and recalibrate and become "bored," and then figure out what's next. I think if I leave this job in this market there's a good chance I'm not able to get another in-house law job. Going to a firm or the government doesn't sound appealing. I'd like to have faith in myself that I'm smart and can start a completely new career doing something non-law related, though no idea what I'd do or how low on the totem pole I'd start. Maybe $150k.

Questions:
1. How much of a life trajectory mistake is it to quit with nothing else lined up planning for at least a 6 month gap? Anyone who's done something similar and regrets it, or done something similar and it worked out? I feel like there are many people out there who'd probably consider my job great and would love to be in my position, and yet most days I'm miserable.

2. Assume we intend to maintain our $100k/yr spend or less. Is there some NW number at which it becomes acceptable to make the jump and venture into the unknown, even if making significantly less? If it's a mistake to leave now, how many more years do should I figure out how to buckle down for?

[AerialWombat]

Your post indicates that you could live on your wife’s income, plus a tiny bit of your taxable account after taxes come out of her income. If she’s willing to support the family, mathematically you never have to work again. This happens very frequently, remember, just with the genders usually reversed.

So it sounds to me like 6 months off would just be a blip for you guys. You could go find a really awesome law job that pays like crap and be fine. Public defender? Non-profit?

Even outside of law, your JD is quite valuable. Plenty of lawyers work in non-attorney positions in all kinds of industries.

Or hang out your own shingle.

Bottom line: You’re not wrekt. But it probably is a one-way street in terms of your current salary.

[123]

There are lot of jobs for compliance managers and audit managers at banks, brokerages, and lots of firms. A firm that is regulated in any way frequently needs a compliance manager, unfortunately the compliance manager can take a career hit if an "issue" arises. Industry knowledge is helpful, being a lawyer moves you to the front of the line.

[levelride]

Experiencing burnout is certainly a challenging situation. Apart from the factors that have led to this state of burnout, do you derive any satisfaction or fulfillment from your current role? Do you think a well-deserved break could potentially rejuvenate you? If this seems plausible, would your employer consider granting you an extended leave, similar to a sabbatical?

[jaqenhghar]

To your point about "I've become extremely burnt out, depressed, and anxious. I dread going to work every day," are you able to articulate the cause(s)? Is it too much work, too much stressful work, too much work you don't like doing, bosses, colleagues, or all of the above?

[Rebels38]

About me:
- 37 years old
- Married (wife 32); 3 year old child; would like to have one more
- $2M net worth (1.3M taxable; 600k retirement; 100k emergency fund)
- HHI: $425k; my income: $325k; wife's income: $100k
- Annual expenses: ~$100k
- Currently rent

I work as a lawyer at a company. Good resume and law degree from a top school. I've become extremely burnt out, depressed, and anxious. I dread going to work every day. I think I may be done with law, or would like to be done with law, but have no idea if that's a catastrophic financial mistake or what would be next.

It's been a long slog to $2M. It feels like more than most of our friends have, though at the same time maybe not that much.

I'd very much like to quit, take six months off and recalibrate and become "bored," and then figure out what's next. I think if I leave this job in this market there's a good chance I'm not able to get another in-house law job. Going to a firm or the government doesn't sound appealing. I'd like to have faith in myself that I'm smart and can start a completely new career doing something non-law related, though no idea what I'd do or how low on the totem pole I'd start. Maybe $150k.

Questions:
1. How much of a life trajectory mistake is it to quit with nothing else lined up planning for at least a 6 month gap? Anyone who's done something similar and regrets it, or done something similar and it worked out? I feel like there are many people out there who'd probably consider my job great and would love to be in my position, and yet most days I'm miserable.

2. Assume we intend to maintain our $100k/yr spend or less. Is there some NW number at which it becomes acceptable to make the jump and venture into the unknown, even if making significantly less? If it's a mistake to leave now, how many more years do should I figure out how to buckle down for?

Honestly, I’d step away and figure it out. There is much more to life than money and you are fairly well positioned to have that option.

I am doing nonprofit work making low 90s with a little freelance income and three kids. I also have health issues so I know excessive stress is not good for me.

You seem very accomplished so I’m sure you will figure it out at the appropriate time.

[WaveRider]

One suggestion is to approach your employer and ask for some kind of extended, unpaid leave (3-6 months). Lots of big companies have formal policies/options around that and even if they don't, managers might be willing to arrange something, especially if you have been a high-performer generally. Hard to find good people that one can rely on so they might be willing to go pretty far to try and keep you happy. Ofc, you'd probably want it to stay w/ health insurance (stupid, America).

Up to you how you might use such time. Just take a break, spend time with family, update resume/take some interviews to see what else is out there. Maybe you come back w/ a different perspective and refreshed or you realize it's not for you.

[Watty]

I've become extremely burnt out, depressed, and anxious.

It would be good to have a good physical and to talk to your doctor to see if there could be something physical going on that could be related to your symptoms. Sometimes normal physicals are scheduled weeks or months in advance but you should insist on seeing your doctor promptly since this would be more than a routine physical.

It would also be good to get some counseling both as an individual and as a couple to look at the situation and come up with a plan. Just quitting your job and staying at home could make things worse instead of better and put a lot of stress on you and your marriage if it is not done right.

Look to see if you might be able to arrange to take a couple of month sabbatical from your job so you would have the option of returning to your job after a few months. Even if your company does not have a formal sabbatical program you may still be able to arrange one or for a leave of absence.

In some situations after working with your doctor or counselor you may be able to use FMLA(Family Medical Leave Act) to take 12 weeks off work without risking losing your job. Going out on disability may also be possible in some situations.

I feel like there are many people out there who'd probably consider my job great and would love to be in my position, and yet most days I'm miserable.

If you are to the point where you are are ready to walk away from a high paying job like that without a plan there is something serious going on so you really should be agressive in getting help and you have the means to pay for it even if your insurance will not cover it.

The end result could very well be that you need to make a career change but getting help first could make any needed change work better if you are more sure you made the best choice.

It could also be that setting boundaries at work about things like travel, work hours, or your workload would help or finding a similar job at a different corporation with a different work culture would make things better.

[Caduceus]

Half of my friends who went to law school aren't practicing law any more. As a lawyer, don't you know a lot of people in, say, your graduating class, who are not lawyers any more? Maybe they could help - go for coffee with them or just call them up to catch up.

Have you considered speaking to career coaches/therapists who specialize with burnt-out lawyers? This is actually a thing - I know because my friends who are lawyers have gone through this.

[Outer Marker]

How much of a life trajectory mistake is it to quit with nothing else lined up planning for at least a 6 month gap? Anyone who's done something similar and regrets it, or done something similar and it worked out? I feel like there are many people out there who'd probably consider my job great and would love to be in my position, and yet most days I'm miserable.

Hate to say it, but I think it would be a huge mistake to quit with nothing else lined up. As you appreciate, you've got a good gig with good income and less pressure than big law jobs. Those jobs are hard to find. I'd do some soul searching, take some vacation time, perhaps a leave of absence if that is possible - but not "quit" until you've figured out next steps. With a young family, you've still got a lot of responsiblities on your shoulders and will likely have a permanently lower standard of living if you quit without a plan. There are certainly other jobs out there - take the foreign service exam, for example, but it is very true that finding a new job is much easier if you already have one. Not to mention that we may well be headed into recession and there will be many people looking for work. I'd second the recommendation to get a checkup and talk to a therapist about what may be causing your angst. It can be quite helpful.

[snowday2022]

Figure out how many more years until FI. Work until then, and then reassess. Do things outside of work to make life more enjoyable.

[BanquetBeer]

What type of law do you practice? You don't need to answer here but I have seen many attorneys get law firm experience and then join a company as internal legal council. I assume their jobs are much less demanding than working at a law firm so the question is - is your experience transferable to that type of job?

Looking at your spending, age, and degree - your savings are going to start growing more rapidly. You are maybe 7 years from doubling your money?
An option I didn't see here is to just slow down and hold yourself to more reasonable hours. This doesn't mean going from 80h to 40h a week like that - but maybe cut down work hours incrementally every few months. (eg I can no longer work past 7pm due to family needs except in extenuating circumstances ~1x/mo or less) - Lots of companies try to make everything an emergency - can't you just file a continuance?

[Outer Marker]

What type of law do you practice? You don't need to answer here but I have seen many attorneys get law firm experience and then join a company as internal legal council. I assume their jobs are much less demanding than working at a law firm so the question is - is your experience transferable to that type of job?

That’s the type of job OP has! And why it would be a mistake to leave without a plan. Good in-house gigs are much harder to find than law firm jobs.

[Outer Marker]

I've become extremely burnt out, depressed, and anxious. I dread going to work every day. ....

One other thought - are you taking on and doing too much work yourself that could be delegated? I enjoy giving strategic legal advice and shaping corporate decisions - but can send the knotty stuff to outside counsel and supervise their work. If you're burned out, you may be doing too much yourself.

[AnnetteLouisan]

Lawyer here. I’ve dealt with this. I messaged you a few suggestions. Agree with the commenters who note that taking a break can make things a lot worse.

[Bodacious]

Life is too short to stick with a job/career that makes you miserable but I wouldn't quit without figuring out what you are going to do for the next 20+ years.

[tashnewbie]

Another lawyer here (in-house counsel).

I agree with others that you should seek professional medical and mental health services (articulated very well by Watty).

I would take 12 weeks of FMLA first (or a leave of absence if that is an option). Perhaps after you have time to rejuvenate, you get a lot more clarity about your next steps, which may include quitting and taking a longer break or changing companies or industries.

What industry are you in? Changing companies or industries may go a long way towards resolving your concerns.

The good news is that you have done a tremendous job of saving and even if you didn't save another penny, you probably could retire in 15 years, which would still be an early retirement in my book. So money doesn't have to be the driver of your decision, but I think you should have something else planned before you quit. Operate from a position of strength, which I think would be feeling your best physically and mentally while having a very well-paying job.

[simas]

About me:
- 37 years old
- Married (wife 32); 3 year old child; would like to have one more
- $2M net worth (1.3M taxable; 600k retirement; 100k emergency fund)
- HHI: $425k; my income: $325k; wife's income: $100k
- Annual expenses: ~$100k
- Currently rent

I work as a lawyer at a company. Good resume and law degree from a top school. I've become extremely burnt out, depressed, and anxious. I dread going to work every day. I think I may be done with law, or would like to be done with law, but have no idea if that's a catastrophic financial mistake or what would be next.

It's been a long slog to $2M. It feels like more than most of our friends have, though at the same time maybe not that much.

I'd very much like to quit, take six months off and recalibrate and become "bored," and then figure out what's next. I think if I leave this job in this market there's a good chance I'm not able to get another in-house law job. Going to a firm or the government doesn't sound appealing. I'd like to have faith in myself that I'm smart and can start a completely new career doing something non-law related, though no idea what I'd do or how low on the totem pole I'd start. Maybe $150k.

Questions:
1. How much of a life trajectory mistake is it to quit with nothing else lined up planning for at least a 6 month gap? Anyone who's done something similar and regrets it, or done something similar and it worked out? I feel like there are many people out there who'd probably consider my job great and would love to be in my position, and yet most days I'm miserable.

2. Assume we intend to maintain our $100k/yr spend or less. Is there some NW number at which it becomes acceptable to make the jump and venture into the unknown, even if making significantly less? If it's a mistake to leave now, how many more years do should I figure out how to buckle down for?

You are aware of your own thoughts on this (and the impact current situation has on you) which is great. Now do something about it
- look at other options. with annual expenses of 100K , your HH income does not have to be that high
- conserve your health, manage stress. health is not something you can get back , regardless of money
- if nothing else works, have a good conversation with your chain of command about 'stepping back'. what is the worst thing happens , they fire/release you? See what you can work out with them
- if nothing else works, leave. your life is more important that money. coffins have no pockets, you will not take it with you
good luck!

[FriedOkra]

Questions:
1. How much of a life trajectory mistake is it to quit with nothing else lined up planning for at least a 6 month gap? Anyone who's done something similar and regrets it, or done something similar and it worked out? I feel like there are many people out there who'd probably consider my job great and would love to be in my position, and yet most days I'm miserable.

2. Assume we intend to maintain our $100k/yr spend or less. Is there some NW number at which it becomes acceptable to make the jump and venture into the unknown, even if making significantly less? If it's a mistake to leave now, how many more years do should I figure out how to buckle down for?

I have professionally reinvented myself several times in life, and I can tell you with certainty that the "golden handcuffs" effect is real. There are several good articles online about how to escape them, but it comes down to this: 1) build up your emergency cash reserve in anticipation of slipping them off--maybe enough to cover at least a half year's salary above and beyond your usual EF; 2) take time to reflect on what you really want to do professionally (more on this below), review job boards for descriptions of what those new adventures might look like, and even schedule informational interviews with people who do what you think you might want to do next; 3) strategize how to reframe your marketability for whatever is next, and if you need to secure certifications or training, do so; 4) create a strategic timeline for making the change, whether it's a three-month arc or a three-year one; 5) make the leap and don't look back.

As far as the "life trajectory" thing, you'll be fine. It's your life, not anyone else's (not even your wife's, although including her in the discussion is a good idea). YOU get to decide what your life trajectory will be. So, along the lines of #2 above, the earlier suggestions about talking to a career counselor, a mental health counselor, and your physician are all excellent. You need to get to the bottom of what is burning you out and giving you anxiety. Beyond that, though, you also need to figure out what makes you passionate about "work," what professional task/contribution you could do that won't always feel like a slog for you, even if it is less remunerative. I know we're not supposed to dabble in "self-help" here, but I would strongly recommend investing $17 in What Color Is Your Parachute?, and if you can bear to do some self-help reading, another $13 in Martha Beck's Finding Your Own North Star was really helpful to me on my last major career transformation. YMMV.

[BicycleLover]

One suggestion is to approach your employer and ask for some kind of extended, unpaid leave (3-6 months). Lots of big companies have formal policies/options around that and even if they don't, managers might be willing to arrange something, especially if you have been a high-performer generally. Hard to find good people that one can rely on so they might be willing to go pretty far to try and keep you happy. Ofc, you'd probably want it to stay w/ health insurance (stupid, America).

I was in OPs position a few years back. I tried to quit my job, but my manager convinced me to check out the resources my mega-corp has for medical leave. Anyway, long story short, I got some papers signed by my doc and I ended up taking a 3-month leave of absence from work. Definitely glad I did that instead of just quitting.

[Life Is Good]

I may catch a lot of heat for this, but you’re asking for opinions…

We have similar net worths. I’m 10 years older with two teens. Great, high paying job ($200ish) that others are envious of, but to me, it’s just a job.

Might I suggest you may be a victim of American culture? You are just starting a beautiful family, hoping for more children, and you already have the means to succeed! Yet, I’m guessing you are bogged down with work, as is your wife… and no mention of where your child or future children fall in this priority list?

My wife is a stay at home mom, and while we’ve given up tons of income (she has a masters in a medical field I can’t pronounce) it has led to a perfect home life. Our kids have never seen a daycare, the inside of a school, or a babysitter that wasn’t named grandma or grandpa.

The question being, is it work you dread? Or leaving your wife and child every day? Who is raising your child if you are both working high income jobs? I will guess your frustration may lie here in your subconscious mind.

I was reading aloud your post to my wife just now, and didn’t get through the “About me” introduction, when she said, “I’m guessing he’s miserable.” Our culture has put you in the position of desiring two incomes, but at the cost of familial happiness.

My guess is that if you (meaning you as a family) realign yourselves more traditionally, you’ll achieve contentment, even at your current job. Be thankful you are in a position to have options so early in the life of your family.

This reminds me of a great YouTube channel called Sailing Zatara. Husband had it all. Great job, cars, house, vacation home in the mountains… but no real relationship with his wife or kids. They thought they were happy, but he was miserable every day at work. He just couldn’t figure it out. Until they realigned their priorities and it really makes for a great family success story.

It’s a difficult, controversial subject, and I hope I didn’t step over any limitations here, but I’ve found many of my friends who “have it all” but are still miserable, are victims of this same cultural expectation. It’s something to consider. If you are religious, I will suggest talking about this with your church leaders. If not, a counseling session or two would be a great step. Many company health plans offer this for free. I sincerely wish you and your family well!

[Sic Vis Pacem]

Fellow attorney here. I'm in private practice, not in-house, but I suspect I understand some of the pressures you're facing. In my experience working with in-house counsel, the stress level of the job varies wildly company to company. Firm life varies, but you can pretty much expect long hours, tight deadlines, etc. My friends on the other side run the whole gamut, from those on 24/7 to those who spend more time on the golf course than in the office.

Some companies have big legal departments, spread the work around. Most are terribly understaffed, with one attorney doing the job of 3 or 4. In some companies, legal is viewed with prestige and valued by the executives. In some, they are the bottom rung and rolled by the business.

You've positioned yourself and your family very, very well. But you're young with a lot of potential, should you choose to continue tapping it. You may want to take a long look at other opportunities for you in-house. A better staffed department, or one with less demands, or one with just a different culture of respect for the legal department, may change your mind. With your credentials, it shouldn't be too difficult to test the market. You may need to take a step back in pay, but it sounds like that's acceptable on your end.

You may also want to consider the non-profit sector. I've got several colleagues that went that route and love what they do. Several have moved from legal to executive roles over time. The compensation will be less, to be sure, but most of them still make a healthy living. (Side note: I had one colleague move to the non-profit, executive side and after being out of the firm for a few months, described the feeling as "recovering from a 10 year, low-grade fever." She was an outstanding litigator, but miserable at the firm. She was an absolute spark of joy in her new position. That's always stuck with me).

Each of these options would be easier to do while you're still employed, rather than quitting and then making decisions.

That said, you've earned the right to make what decisions you want here, and align your lifestyle with your priorities. There's no such thing as what you "should" do here... there's only what works best for you, your wife, and your family. You've laid the groundwork to have the options, and now they are there for you to actually consider and select. That's hard, but that's also what we're all working for.

One last note - I second the advice above to get checked medically, and maybe see a professional counselor. Our profession tends to both attract and culture a certain form of neuroticism. Inflection points in life can be great opportunities to get an outside perspective, or to have someone help you understand your own thoughts and priorities.

I wish you well.

[bh1]

In my case, burnout was due to work environment, not the work itself. Twice. In both cases, I never figured out exactly what about the work environment created an almost undetectable miasma of dysphoria, but I could tell it was there if I thought about it. Existential dread. For me, switching jobs, but doing exactly the same work, solved my problem.

[Jeepergeo]

You are a father and husband. You have an obligation to your family. Put them first and ahead of your own needs.

Consider trying to resolve the issues where you work now rather than jumping off the ship outside sight of land.

And stop comparing yourself to others. It's time to man up.

[Wannaretireearly]

I may catch a lot of heat for this, but you’re asking for opinions…

We have similar net worths. I’m 10 years older with two teens. Great, high paying job ($200ish) that others are envious of, but to me, it’s just a job.

Might I suggest you may be a victim of American culture? You are just starting a beautiful family, hoping for more children, and you already have the means to succeed! Yet, I’m guessing you are bogged down with work, as is your wife… and no mention of where your child or future children fall in this priority list?

My wife is a stay at home mom, and while we’ve given up tons of income (she has a masters in a medical field I can’t pronounce) it has led to a perfect home life. Our kids have never seen a daycare, the inside of a school, or a babysitter that wasn’t named grandma or grandpa.

The question being, is it work you dread? Or leaving your wife and child every day? Who is raising your child if you are both working high income jobs? I will guess your frustration may lie here in your subconscious mind.

I was reading aloud your post to my wife just now, and didn’t get through the “About me” introduction, when she said, “I’m guessing he’s miserable.” Our culture has put you in the position of desiring two incomes, but at the cost of familial happiness.

My guess is that if you (meaning you as a family) realign yourselves more traditionally, you’ll achieve contentment, even at your current job. Be thankful you are in a position to have options so early in the life of your family.

This reminds me of a great YouTube channel called Sailing Zatara. Husband had it all. Great job, cars, house, vacation home in the mountains… but no real relationship with his wife or kids. They thought they were happy, but he was miserable every day at work. He just couldn’t figure it out. Until they realigned their priorities and it really makes for a great family success story.

It’s a difficult, controversial subject, and I hope I didn’t step over any limitations here, but I’ve found many of my friends who “have it all” but are still miserable, are victims of this same cultural expectation. It’s something to consider. If you are religious, I will suggest talking about this with your church leaders. If not, a counseling session or two would be a great step. Many company health plans offer this for free. I sincerely wish you and your family well!

Excellent post. I was going to write something similar, but this is much better articulated. Americans work hard, but over rotate on the importance of their job.

A thought I’ve had recently: the older and wealthier I get the less important my job is. We don’t have to wait til FI and drop like a stone. Work importance and effort should be a gradually declining curve to zero imo. Else the math (roi, marginal utility blah) is all wrong

[renter]

Keep the job, but get counseling soon to figure out what is going on. Then decide what you want to do.

[windaar]

Mid-career my Dad left his profession to teach it instead at the university level. He found ther profession frustrating and tiring and liked teaching and the educational world. He really enjoyed the rest of his life and made a difference in hundreds of young people's lives. He also took a pay cut by half. He has been gone for a long time now. What possible good would it have been if he had just kept his nose to the grindstone in the persuit of cash? You can't take it with you and all that.

[Ependytis]

Sorry for your loss. It sounds like you were really drained from all that was going on in your life. Now that your parents have passed and you're no longer taking care of them, hopefully this will free up some time and energy to focus on yourself. In focusing on yourself, you might be able to continue to work at least until you get your pension. After all, you're only 37. Most people don't stop working for another 25 years, until they're 62. I don't recall you ever mentioning your child's father. Is he available to provide support?

[Beensabu]

Sorry for your loss. It sounds like you were really drained from all that was going on in your life. Now that your parents have passed and you're no longer taking care of them, hopefully this will free up some time and energy to focus on yourself. In focusing on yourself, you might be able to continue to work at least until you get your pension. After all, you're only 37. Most people don't stop working for another 25 years, until they're 62. I don't recall you ever mentioning your child's father. Is he available to provide support?

Wrong thread. viewtopic.php?p=7285356#p7285356

In that thread, the person is also 37 with a small child, has $2.5m, and is overwhelmingly being told they pretty much don't have to work anymore if they keep annual expenses around $50k...

Something for the OP of this thread to consider if they are truly miserable.

[harrychan]

I recommend you connect with alumni or go to socials for attorneys and get an idea of what others are doing. It can give you insights as to what is available out there. Good luck!

[Candor]

What is saving all this money for if not times like this? Sure, don't make any impulsive rash decisions but being depressed, anxious and dreading going to work every day is no way to live and unlike many you have options. Make sure your wife is on board and start working on your exit plan if it truly is work that is causing you to be miserable.