SS Spousal Benefit including Death?

[bhwabeck3533]

I searched this forum yet did not find the definitive answer to my question, which is:

"What happens to a deceased person's unclaimed Social Security benefits with respect to a surviving spouse?"

Yes, it is a personal scenario. I am 68 years old, my wife is 59 years old. I plan to draw my Social Security when I reach 70 years old. My golf buddies (who are typically knowledgeable on these susbjects), state that my wife will not receive any of my SS benefits if I die before I begin withdrawing my SS.

[Silk McCue]

Ridiculously false if your PIA is greater than hers.

Cheers

[WillRetire]

OP: If you die before collecting your benefit, your surviving spouse is entitled to a widow benefit which can begin as young as age 60. Her widow benefit is based on your full-retirement age benefit.

As a first step, sign into your account at ssa.gov and download your estimate of benefits. That will show some info on what happens if you die.
https://www.ssa.gov/myaccount/

ssa.gov has lots of easy to read information about how social security works.

Your buddies are woefully and dangerously misinformed. Misinformation like that has led to many 1000s maybe millions of people electing to take their social security at the earliest possible age instead of at an optimal time for their situation.

[ehh]

Well, your golf buddies are correct that your wife can't receive survivor benefits until she is 60 years old - unless she is disabled or caring for a child under 16.

Because you are older than your social security full retirement age, if you die, your widow will be eligible, once she is 60 years old, to receive benefits based on the amount you were eligible to receive at the time of your death. If your widow is less than her full retirement age at the time she applies for benefits her benefit amount is reduced by the percentages found here: https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/ifyou.html#h6

Of course, she can wait until she is 60 years old (or wait until she reaches her full retirement age) and then apply for survivor benefits.

[David Jay]

Let’s start at the beginning: Widow(er) total benefit is equal to the larger of the two individual benefits, with reductions for early filing.

1. If your wife is the higher earning spouse then your friends are partially correct, she might not receive any of your benefit when you pass (assuming she is over age 62 when you pass). But this is not affected by whether or not you have filed for your personal benefit.

2. If you are the higher earner and have not yet filed for your personal benefit, your wife will receive a widow’s benefit calculated as if you had filed for your benefit the month that you passed. Every month you delay (to age 70) increases the size of her widow’s benefit.

[David S]

I would check your buddies' score cards carefully before settling any bets.

[delamer]

I would check your buddies' score cards carefully before settling any bets.

SNORT!

[Agent 99]

My husband died at 69.5 yo, was the higher earner and did not start collecting social security. I was 59. At 62 I started collecting my reduced benefit. When I reach 66 and 2 months (my survivor’s full benefit age) vs. 66 and 6 months (my FRA) I will claim his benefit without any reduction. I bet your golf buddies don’t know about the difference in survivor’s benefit age vs. spouse’s FRA.

[dknightd]

I searched this forum yet did not find the definitive answer to my question, which is:

"What happens to a deceased person's unclaimed Social Security benefits with respect to a surviving spouse?"

Yes, it is a personal scenario. I am 68 years old, my wife is 59 years old. I plan to draw my Social Security when I reach 70 years old. My golf buddies (who are typically knowledgeable on these susbjects), state that my wife will not receive any of my SS benefits if I die before I begin withdrawing my SS.

What makes you think you will not live to 70? Your wife will get benefits based on the age you die.

[Jovby]

My golf buddies (who are typically knowledgeable on these susbjects), state that my wife will not receive any of my SS benefits if I die before I begin withdrawing my SS.

That is not true. If you die before beginning your benefit, then your survivors are eligible for benefits on your record as if you claimed the day before you died. There is NO penalty to your survivors if you die before claiming a benefit.

https://www.socialsecurityintelligence. ... and-death/

"If the deceased spouse never filed for benefits, and died after their full retirement age, the survivor receives the deceased’s benefit in the same amount it would have been on the date of the deceased’s death (including delayed retirement credits) reduced for the filing age of the survivor. "

The maximum survivor spouse benefit is 100% of your benefit (as if you claimed the day before you died). So if you are delaying SS to age 70 for the delayed retirement credits, and died at age 68, then she her max benefit is that full benefit with all the delayed retirement credits through age 68. You can not earn delayed retirement credits after death, so the max benefit will not increase further from delayed retirement credits. The benefit amount will increase for COLA each year (whether she claims it or not).

The survivor spouse benefit WILL be reduced if she claims it before HER full retirement age (age 67). So if you died this year, she would have to wait another 9 years to claim the full benefit amount.

The earliest you can claim a survivor spouse benefit is age 60, but it will be reduced to 71.5% because it was claimed before FRA.

The penalty for claiming the survivor benefit before FRA, and the penalty for claiming your own benefit before FRA are independent of each other. So you can claim one early, suffering a penalty, then later switch to the other benefit without penalty.

For example, she could claim her own reduced benefit at age 62, then switch to the survivor spouse benefit at age 67 which will not be reduced. Or she could claim a reduced survivor spouse benefit at age 60, and switch to her own benefit at age 70 which will not be reduced.

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/onyourown.html

[TomatoTomahto]

I would check your buddies' score cards carefully before settling any bets.

SNORT!

I agree!!! That was REALLY funny. Good one David.

[Navillus1968]

I searched this forum yet did not find the definitive answer to my question, which is:

"What happens to a deceased person's unclaimed Social Security benefits with respect to a surviving spouse?"

Yes, it is a personal scenario. I am 68 years old, my wife is 59 years old. I plan to draw my Social Security when I reach 70 years old. My golf buddies (who are typically knowledgeable on these susbjects), state that my wife will not receive any of my SS benefits if I die before I begin withdrawing my SS.

1. Your golf buddies are full of beans.

2. SS Survivor benefits exist separately from your wife's own SS retirement benefit (if she has one) & there is an optimal claiming strategy for any given mix of the two benefit amounts & age of each spouse.

Generally, if your benefit is much higher than your wife's, she should wait to file for survivor benefits until she reaches FRA of 67, so she gets 100% of your benefit. She can take her own benefit at 62 & switch to the survivor benefit at 67.

There are cases where the reverse is the smart move- take reduced Survivor benefits at 60, 62, etc. & let the wife's own benefit accrue delayed retirement credits until 70. For this to work the wife has to have a solid earnings record compared to her husband's survivor benefit, so that the 24% increase results in a higher benefit.

The reduction amount for the two benefits is different- retirement benefits get a 30% haircut if taken at 62 vs FRA of 67, but starting Survivor benefits at 60 (2 years earlier!) gives a reduction of only 28.5% vs FRA of 67.

Note: FRA for both retirement benefits & survivor benefits are now aligned at 67 for anybody born after 1962, like your wife. As noted by Agent 99 up-thread, previously, there was a split between the two FRAs for folks born in prior years.

Like most things SSA, survivor benefits are complicated & opaque- you need to do your due diligence or risk leaving big money on the table.

https://blog.massmutual.com/post/social ... r-benefits
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/1962s.html

[Agent 99]

I searched this forum yet did not find the definitive answer to my question, which is:

"What happens to a deceased person's unclaimed Social Security benefits with respect to a surviving spouse?"

Yes, it is a personal scenario. I am 68 years old, my wife is 59 years old. I plan to draw my Social Security when I reach 70 years old. My golf buddies (who are typically knowledgeable on these susbjects), state that my wife will not receive any of my SS benefits if I die before I begin withdrawing my SS.

1. Your golf buddies are full of beans.

2. SS Survivor benefits exist separately from your wife's own SS retirement benefit (if she has one) & there is an optimal claiming strategy for any given mix of the two benefit amounts & age of each spouse.

Generally, if your benefit is much higher than your wife's, she should wait to file for survivor benefits until she reaches FRA of 67, so she gets 100% of your benefit. She can take her own benefit at 62 & switch to the survivor benefit at 67.

There are cases where the reverse is the smart move- take reduced Survivor benefits at 60, 62, etc. & let the wife's own benefit accrue delayed retirement credits until 70. For this to work the wife has to have a solid earnings record compared to her husband's survivor benefit, so that the 24% increase results in a higher benefit.

The reduction amount for the two benefits is different- retirement benefits get a 30% haircut if taken at 62 vs FRA of 67, but starting Survivor benefits at 60 (2 years earlier!) gives a reduction of only 28.5% vs FRA of 67.

Note: FRA for both retirement benefits & survivor benefits are now aligned at 67 for anybody born after 1962, like your wife. As noted by Agent 99 up-thread, previously, there was a split between the two FRAs for folks born in prior years.

Like most things SSA, survivor benefits are complicated & opaque- you need to do your due diligence or risk leaving big money on the table.

https://blog.massmutual.com/post/social ... r-benefits
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/1962s.html

Thank you for correcting the FRA issue.

[Navillus1968]

I searched this forum yet did not find the definitive answer to my question, which is:

"What happens to a deceased person's unclaimed Social Security benefits with respect to a surviving spouse?"

Yes, it is a personal scenario. I am 68 years old, my wife is 59 years old. I plan to draw my Social Security when I reach 70 years old. My golf buddies (who are typically knowledgeable on these susbjects), state that my wife will not receive any of my SS benefits if I die before I begin withdrawing my SS.

1. Your golf buddies are full of beans.

2. SS Survivor benefits exist separately from your wife's own SS retirement benefit (if she has one) & there is an optimal claiming strategy for any given mix of the two benefit amounts & age of each spouse.

<snip>

Note: FRA for both retirement benefits & survivor benefits are now aligned at 67 for anybody born after 1962, like your wife. As noted by Agent 99 up-thread, previously, there was a split between the two FRAs for folks born in prior years.

Like most things SSA, survivor benefits are complicated & opaque- you need to do your due diligence or risk leaving big money on the table.

https://blog.massmutual.com/post/social ... r-benefits
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/survivors/1962s.html

Thank you for correcting the FRA issue.

The answer you gave was 100% correct for the cohort born between 1957-1961, I am guessing probably 1957 for you? Just another SSA curve ball for the widows/widowers in that window, trying to decide on a wise claiming strategy.

You should be getting fairly close to drawing your survivor's benefit! I hope it's a nice raise.
Sorry for your loss.

[Eagle33]

Your golfing buddies are correct if they were referring to SS spousal benefits, not survivor (widow/er) benefits". Spousal benefits based on a spouse's yet to be claimed benefits are zero because spouse's benefits have not started. That only leaves the survivor benefit.

[bhwabeck3533]

Your golfing buddies are correct if they were referring to SS spousal benefits, not survivor (widow/er) benefits". Spousal benefits based on a spouse's yet to be claimed benefits are zero because spouse's benefits have not started. That only leaves the survivor benefit.

OP here. What is the value of a "spousal benefit" versus a "survivor benefit"?

[22twain]

OP here. What is the value of a "spousal benefit" versus a "survivor benefit"?

Your spouse can claim their spousal benefit while you are still alive. It can be as much as half of your "primary insurance amount," depending on when they claim it.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/spouse.html

This is useful if they didn't pay much into SS, so their own PIA is less than half of yours.

[Eagle33]

Your golfing buddies are correct if they were referring to SS spousal benefits, not survivor (widow/er) benefits". Spousal benefits based on a spouse's yet to be claimed benefits are zero because spouse's benefits have not started. That only leaves the survivor benefit.

OP here. What is the value of a "spousal benefit" versus a "survivor benefit"?

Your spouse only has access to the spousal benefit while you are alive and you claimed your SS benefit. Your spouse only has access to the survivor benefit after you die, irregardless if you had claimed or not claimed your SS benefit prior to death.

[Navillus1968]

Your golfing buddies are correct if they were referring to SS spousal benefits, not survivor (widow/er) benefits". Spousal benefits based on a spouse's yet to be claimed benefits are zero because spouse's benefits have not started. That only leaves the survivor benefit.

OP here. What is the value of a "spousal benefit" versus a "survivor benefit"?

Your wife has the possibility of up to three SS benefits, depending on her work history.

1. Her own SS retirement benefit. For this to be available, your wife has to accumulate 40 quarters of employment & be at least 62.

2. A spousal benefit that is based on your SS retirement benefit. For this to be available, the worker (you) has to have begun taking his retirement benefit, the spouse has to be at least 62 & your marriage has to be over 1 year old.

Since the maximum spousal benefit is 50% of your benefit at your FRA, if your wife's own retirement benefit based on her work history exceeds half of your SS benefit at FRA, there is no spousal benefit.
Since you have a 9 year age gap, when you are 70 & begin drawing your SS benefit, your wife will only be 61. She will have to wait 1 year until she turns 62 to start her spousal benefit.
If she takes her spousal benefit at 62, that is 60 months before her FRA of 67. To qualify for 50% of your benefit, your wife needs to delay claiming until her FRA of 67 or her spousal benefit will be reduced from 50% according to a formula. Bottom line, if she claims her SS spousal benefit at 62, she will get 32.5% of your FRA benefit, not 50%. Each month she delays past 62, she earns about a half percent more until reaching 50% at 67 (the actual formula is more complicated). https://www.ssa.gov/oact/quickcalc/earlyretire.html

Example- assume your SS benefit at your FRA of 66 & 2 months is $1000/month, your wife is entitled to $500/month (50%) when she turns 67 (her FRA). If she claims at 62, there is a 35% reduction since she claimed 60 months early. Her age 62 spousal benefit is reduced by $175 (500 x 0.35), leaving her benefit at $325/month.

3. A survivor benefit if one of you dies before the other. Basically the higher benefit (yours, probably) becomes the survivor benefit & the lower benefit stops. So, your SS benefit at 70 turns into the survivor benefit & her benefit ceases.

Example- By waiting until 70, your FRA benefit increases from $1000/month by 8%/year (0.667%/month). Since your FRA is age 66 & 2 months, you earn an extra 30.67% at 70, or about $1306/month. This amount is also the Survivor benefit for the widow in the couple once one of you passes.

If you know your actual PIA number for your FRA of 66 & 2 months, you can calculate your wife's spousal & survivor benefits pretty easily.