4% back no fee Visa debit card

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DJZ
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4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by DJZ »

Anyone sign up for this? What has been your experience?

https://www.coinbase.com/card

David
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whodidntante
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by whodidntante »

Good for what it is. I've racked up ~$480 in rewards in less than a year without much effort. It's 4% back only if you opt to get the rewards in @#$!coin, and some rich Bogleheads are going to tell you it isn't worth the effort. And there are several blocked merchants where people have previously manufactured spend. Great for situations where a credit card is not accepted or where a debit card incurs lower fees.
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ClevrChico
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by ClevrChico »

4% back while using this debit card on Pay1040 would be excellent! (But, I wouldn't be surprised if they block it as it seems too good to be true.)
Last edited by ClevrChico on Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Thumbs down from a non-rich Boglehead.
Gadget
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Gadget »

ClevrChico wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:51 am 4% back while using this debit card on Pay1040 would be excellent! (But, I wouldn't be surprised if they block it as it seems too good to be true.)
They don't block this. This is exactly what I use it for. I was too late to get it all done for my large 2021 tax bill, but I started using it on 2022 estimated tax payments.

Granted, it's more of a PITA than other normal credit card options. And it maxes out on $2500/day, so no large purchases or tax bills will work. And it isn't really 4%, because you have to get rewards in weird cryptos that you pay likely around 0.5% or so to exchange to cash.

But for IRS payments until a likely day that they make tax payments excluded from rewards? It's pretty awesome for a few hoops to jump through.

For anything other than tax payments or things that charge a high CC fee but low debit card fee? There are likely better options with credit cards.
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ClevrChico
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by ClevrChico »

Gadget wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:01 pm
ClevrChico wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:51 am 4% back while using this debit card on Pay1040 would be excellent! (But, I wouldn't be surprised if they block it as it seems too good to be true.)
They don't block this. This is exactly what I use it for. I was too late to get it all done for my large 2021 tax bill, but I started using it on 2022 estimated tax payments.

Granted, it's more of a PITA than other normal credit card options. And it maxes out on $2500/day, so no large purchases or tax bills will work. And it isn't really 4%, because you have to get rewards in weird cryptos that you pay likely around 0.5% or so to exchange to cash.

But for IRS payments until a likely day that they make tax payments excluded from rewards? It's pretty awesome for a few hoops to jump through.

For anything other than tax payments or things that charge a high CC fee but low debit card fee? There are likely better options with credit cards.
Excellent, great to know, thanks!
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by oldcomputerguy »

For the record, the forum policy against discussion of cryptocurrency as an investing strategy does not prohibit discussion of uses of crypto in place of other currencies. See this post by the site owner: New Forum Policy Prohibiting Discussions of Cryptocurrency, Market Manipulation Schemes, etc as Investing Strategies
Note - This policy is limited to discussions of investing strategies. Discussions of cryptocurrencies in other contexts is still acceptable, for example for money transfers or microtransactions or the current thread on crypto trades and tax loss harvesting.
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MrJedi
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by MrJedi »

I have it.

It is a bit of a pain to use. Transferring funds to Coinbase to spend is slow. 4% rewards is no joke though, not any gotchas other than the annoying crypto aspect and slow transfers and weird limits. There is a fee to sell/exchange. If you use the Advanced Trade or Pro interfaces, there is a 0.4-0.6% fee which is much less than the normal, vanilla interface. This fee negligible to me since the 4% outshines any other flat rate card out there, you still end up with about 3.98% after the crypto selling fee.

Another pain is the extra tax work needed, since every crypto sell needs to be documented. There are some services that help generate form 8949, cost basis, etc., but still some extra legwork and not exactly a brainless card to use.
Point
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Point »

I suspect that the credit card reward which has not been taxed as income historically will now be taxed on the gain in crypto. If that is the case, one will need to track the cost basis to determine the gain. Or in this case, since the cost basis is zero, all expenditures of this crypto reward will be gain and taxed. Thoughts?
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DJZ
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by DJZ »

Hmmmm well getting p**pcoins would have no interest but if you could get the standard ones I’d be pleased.

Usually credit card rewards are not taxed. I wonder if that’s the case here.
Impatience
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Impatience »

DJZ wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:51 pm Hmmmm well getting p**pcoins would have no interest but if you could get the standard ones I’d be pleased.

Usually credit card rewards are not taxed. I wonder if that’s the case here.
That has been the case so far. It’s a great card I have one but only recently started using it as I think they dropped some fees? I have a pretty old Coinbase account so I can deposit USD and spend it on the card instantly.
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JoMoney
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by JoMoney »

Impatience wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:59 pm
DJZ wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:51 pm Hmmmm well getting p**pcoins would have no interest but if you could get the standard ones I’d be pleased.

Usually credit card rewards are not taxed. I wonder if that’s the case here.
That has been the case so far. It’s a great card I have one but only recently started using it as I think they dropped some fees? I have a pretty old Coinbase account so I can deposit USD and spend it on the card instantly.
Hmmm... :confused
https://www.coinbase.com/card
Frequently Asked Questions
Are there tax implications?
There are generally no tax implications if you spend US dollars (USD) or USD Coin (USDC).
Spending any other kind of crypto involves selling your assets. Selling crypto using your card is a taxable transaction. Just like when you sell crypto on Coinbase, you'll be required to report gains and losses on your tax return. Please speak to a tax advisor to better understand how your card impacts your unique tax situation.
I wonder how the cost basis is determined on rebate/reward coins.

" ² Reward rate is variable. Check your app for the most updated rate. "
...
" ⁷ No Coinbase transaction fees but a spread applies when we buy, sell, or trade cryptocurrencies. See Cardholder agreement. "

Those could be sticklers. "Up to 4%" doesn't mean 4% if it varies, and if there is a spread cost when you sell the coin I wouldn't be surprised if that's eating up a percent (or more) both ways, like -1% in the valuation spread you get as the ask price when buying or receive as a reward, and -1% when you sell to redeem it.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Impatience
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Impatience »

Current accepted treatment until the tax man says otherwise is the tokens are not taxable but the gains are upon sale. So if I earn $100 of XLM from cash back that’s not taxed. If it’s worth $104 when I sell it back to USD, or BTC, or anything, I owe capital gains on the $4 depending on how long I held it.
Impatience
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Impatience »

JoMoney wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:38 pm Those could be sticklers. "Up to 4%" doesn't mean 4% if it varies, and if there is a spread cost when you sell the coin I wouldn't be surprised if that's eating up a percent (or more) both ways, like -1% in the valuation spread you get as the ask price when buying or receive as a reward, and -1% when you sell to redeem it.
All my transactions have been exactly 4%. The app transparently reports the estimated and then finalized % and $ value back. The spread on selling the tokens is more like half a percent on Coinbase. You’re just making up bad sounding numbers with no basis in reality :confused
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JoMoney
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by JoMoney »

Impatience wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:52 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:38 pm Those could be sticklers. "Up to 4%" doesn't mean 4% if it varies, and if there is a spread cost when you sell the coin I wouldn't be surprised if that's eating up a percent (or more) both ways, like -1% in the valuation spread you get as the ask price when buying or receive as a reward, and -1% when you sell to redeem it.
All my transactions have been exactly 4%. The app transparently reports the estimated and then finalized % and $ value back. The spread on selling the tokens is more like half a percent on Coinbase. You’re just making up bad sounding numbers with no basis in reality :confused
The "up to 4%" and "Reward rate is variable" is what they're claiming on their website.
They disclose they build a spread into the exchanges between crypto. 1% was just WAG at what the spread impact/cost might run, it probably also varies and could be much more or less depending on how volatile and how liquid the trading is on any particular crypto.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Bama12
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Bama12 »

Can you pay your house and car payment with it?
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JoMoney
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by JoMoney »

Bama12 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:15 pm Can you pay your house and car payment with it?
I'm sure the debit card doesn't prohibit doing that, that's more up to whoever you pay your house/car payment to whether they accept debit cards for payment, I would suspect they don't or if they do they charge an additional fee. My landlord allows me to pay rent with a credit or debit card, but there's a 2.5% transaction fee if I pay by card.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Bama12
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Bama12 »

JoMoney wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:25 pm
Bama12 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:15 pm Can you pay your house and car payment with it?
I'm sure the debit card doesn't prohibit doing that, that's more up to whoever you pay your house/car payment to whether they accept debit cards for payment, I would suspect they don't or if they do they charge an additional fee. My landlord allows me to pay rent with a credit or debit card, but there's a 2.5% transaction fee if I pay by card.
I pay my house and car with my debit card, with no fees. I cannot pay them with my credit card.
MrJedi
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by MrJedi »

JoMoney wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:03 pm
Impatience wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:52 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:38 pm Those could be sticklers. "Up to 4%" doesn't mean 4% if it varies, and if there is a spread cost when you sell the coin I wouldn't be surprised if that's eating up a percent (or more) both ways, like -1% in the valuation spread you get as the ask price when buying or receive as a reward, and -1% when you sell to redeem it.
All my transactions have been exactly 4%. The app transparently reports the estimated and then finalized % and $ value back. The spread on selling the tokens is more like half a percent on Coinbase. You’re just making up bad sounding numbers with no basis in reality :confused
The "up to 4%" and "Reward rate is variable" is what they're claiming on their website.
They disclose they build a spread into the exchanges between crypto. 1% was just WAG at what the spread impact/cost might run, it probably also varies and could be much more or less depending on how volatile and how liquid the trading is on any particular crypto.
The trading fee is 0.4% or 0.6% depending if you have a maker or taker order (basically non marketable limit order vs market order).

If you spend $1000, you get $40 back in crypto

Then to sell the $40, you would have a 0.4% fee on a limit/maker order, about 16 cents. So you still net $39.84. Spreads are pretty thin from what I've seen. You can see the order books and spread is usually a basis point or two, pretty negligible if you are just looking to sell your reward as soon as you get it.

Say you even eat a spread of 0.1% on a bad trade, that will be an extra 4 cents. So you net $39.80 reward on $1000 spend, effectively 3.98% cash back.

This is all by using the Advanced Trade or Pro interfaces. The fees and spread is much more favorable than using the basic trading interface.

There were questions about basis earlier. Coinbase shows the crypto as having a basis of market value at time of reward. Any gain or loss from that basis is taxable when you sell and Coinbase will also show that to you.
Impatience
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Impatience »

Bama12 wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:15 pm Can you pay your house and car payment with it?
I pay my rent with it. 4% - 2.5% fee for card use = 1.5% back on rent. I’ll take it!

The card has a $2,500 daily limit so for anything larger I’d max it on the Coinbase card and put the balance on my 2.5% alliant credit card.
martyboyle
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by martyboyle »

Interested so looked over their page. If using this for regular spending, do they offer any protections like no liability for fraud?
How about fees and conversions for foreign transactions?

Their UK/EU version is somewhat different and charges 3% for foreign transactions.

I'm in the US so all I see on their page for US FAQs:
How do I dispute a charge?

The fastest way to resolve a dispute is to contact the merchant. When merchants initiate a refund, it can take up to 10 days to settle. If you’ve already done this and the issue isn’t resolved, you can dispute the transaction by contacting us.

Note: You'll lose any rewards you earned on a disputed transaction.
Not sure how good Coinbase customer service is
Topic Author
DJZ
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by DJZ »

This actually seems fantastic if you can use it for large purchases. Indeed debit cards are much more likely to be accepted than credit cards for certain large payments.

About taxes, my point was that credit card rebate rewards are not considered income as far as I am aware. And are not taxed upon receipt. I suppose if you hold them as tokens and sell later then your cost basis would be the value when received? Complicated

Can someone clarify in which token the rewards are paid?

David
MrJedi
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by MrJedi »

DJZ wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:21 am This actually seems fantastic if you can use it for large purchases. Indeed debit cards are much more likely to be accepted than credit cards for certain large payments.

About taxes, my point was that credit card rebate rewards are not considered income as far as I am aware. And are not taxed upon receipt. I suppose if you hold them as tokens and sell later then your cost basis would be the value when received? Complicated

Can someone clarify in which token the rewards are paid?

David
Yes your crypto has a cost basis assigned at the time of reward.

They just launched a new system where the rewards rotate every month or two. They still maintain some 4% options, but you may need to change it each rotation if you want 4%. Some are 1%, 2%, etc.
Boilermaker82
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Boilermaker82 »

I like it. A few clicks in the app gets me an instant transfer to top it off before a purchase. The #%^* coins you get in rewards can be converted over to whatever crypto you want. If you transfer to CB Pro (free/instant, much lower fees) you could just sell the rewards for cash and transfer back to bank. Easy enough IMO.
Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things.
MrJedi
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by MrJedi »

FYI the CB Pro transfer isn't necessary anymore. You can use Advanced Trade on the desktop site of normal CB, that has the same fee structure. This is a little nicer since it tracks your cost basis and stuff a bit cleaner than going back and forth to/from CB Pro.
czaj
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by czaj »

You can also now spend your rewards using the card and apparently it will not have transaction fees, but I haven't tried this yet.
Topic Author
DJZ
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by DJZ »

Could one of you users please give a bit more detail? I have an account at CB and CB pro. I can add US dollars via the standard methods such as ACH transfer. Is it required that the funds stay in US $? And in what form do the rewards come?

Please don’t mention pros and cons of any specific token, this will result in locking this thread.

Thanks!
jco
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by jco »

A card with higher cashback is always intriguing, but I have several questions.

1. Since this is a debit card, you must fund it from your bank. You are "paying with crypto", so I'm assuming you have to put the money from your bank into a crypto coin. If you put this in a stable coin like USDC, then am I correct in thinking that funding $100 in USDC ensures (assuming no catastrophe) that I have $100 to spend on the card?
2. Can you get the rewards back in a stable coin so that you don't have to worry about tax issues?
3. Others have mentioned that the 4% is now rotating. What categories are possible?

I will say that it doesn't seem nearly as convenient as a credit card (since you have to have the funds ready to spend) with the potential for a lot more risk. And if the categories rotate, you can't even set it an forget it (like fund your mortgage and car payment and other fixed monthly bills) and then pay automatically each month and get 4%.
MrJedi
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by MrJedi »

jco wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:25 am A card with higher cashback is always intriguing, but I have several questions.

1. Since this is a debit card, you must fund it from your bank. You are "paying with crypto", so I'm assuming you have to put the money from your bank into a crypto coin. If you put this in a stable coin like USDC, then am I correct in thinking that funding $100 in USDC ensures (assuming no catastrophe) that I have $100 to spend on the card?
2. Can you get the rewards back in a stable coin so that you don't have to worry about tax issues?
3. Others have mentioned that the 4% is now rotating. What categories are possible?

I will say that it doesn't seem nearly as convenient as a credit card (since you have to have the funds ready to spend) with the potential for a lot more risk. And if the categories rotate, you can't even set it an forget it (like fund your mortgage and car payment and other fixed monthly bills) and then pay automatically each month and get 4%.
You can deposit as straight USD (not even USDC) and spend from the USD.

The options are limited. There is one option that is a stablecoin, DAI, but it is only a 1% reward. Even if you take a 4% reward and it drops by 50% overnight, you still come out ahead of a 1% "stable"coin. FYI even selling stablecoin generate tax work. In theory it will be 0 gain/losses but that type of transaction still needs to be reported.

Right now the options are:

4%: Stellar Lumens, The Graph, Amp, Rally
1%: Bitcoin, Ethereum, Dogecoin, Dai

Next rotation is May 9.

They do say that if you don't pick the next rotation, they will default you to one with the highest reward rate, which is surprising to me actually.
jco
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by jco »

MrJedi wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:06 am You can deposit as straight USD (not even USDC) and spend from the USD.

The options are limited. There is one option that is a stablecoin, DAI, but it is only a 1% reward. Even if you take a 4% reward and it drops by 50% overnight, you still come out ahead of a 1% "stable"coin. FYI even selling stablecoin generate tax work. In theory it will be 0 gain/losses but that type of transaction still needs to be reported.

Right now the options are:

4%: Stellar Lumens, The Graph, Amp, Rally
1%: Bitcoin, Ethereum, Dogecoin, Dai

Next rotation is May 9.

They do say that if you don't pick the next rotation, they will default you to one with the highest reward rate, which is surprising to me actually.
So the "rotating categories" are not spending categories but the type of cryptocurrency you get as a reward? So you get 4% if you choose certain types of cryptocurrency as your reward but only 1% if you choose others (probably the biggest ones)?
MrJedi
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by MrJedi »

jco wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:19 pm
MrJedi wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:06 am You can deposit as straight USD (not even USDC) and spend from the USD.

The options are limited. There is one option that is a stablecoin, DAI, but it is only a 1% reward. Even if you take a 4% reward and it drops by 50% overnight, you still come out ahead of a 1% "stable"coin. FYI even selling stablecoin generate tax work. In theory it will be 0 gain/losses but that type of transaction still needs to be reported.

Right now the options are:

4%: Stellar Lumens, The Graph, Amp, Rally
1%: Bitcoin, Ethereum, Dogecoin, Dai

Next rotation is May 9.

They do say that if you don't pick the next rotation, they will default you to one with the highest reward rate, which is surprising to me actually.
So the "rotating categories" are not spending categories but the type of cryptocurrency you get as a reward? So you get 4% if you choose certain types of cryptocurrency as your reward but only 1% if you choose others (probably the biggest ones)?
Correct.
Staythecourse123
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Staythecourse123 »

FWIW I have a crypto.com card which operates similarly but lower % by a bit, and to be honest I regret it. The thought of doing taxes for 2022 and dealing with all these transactions is giving me nightmares already. I’m not sure the extra 1% or 2% cash back vs any of my 2% standard credit cards is really worth it. Also, it’s a huge pain in the neck with debit cards if used for ‘edge cases’ like any type of hold for reservations (hotels, rental cars, airline seat upgrade that doesn’t go through for whatever reason as happened to me), etc. Can take weeks for the $ to go back into your account and it will be deducted / disappear in the meantime - with a CC it just hits your credit limit but doesn’t actually do anything else.

Let alone the fact that with a credit card if there’s fraudulent activity I can easily call up amex or whoever else and no questions asked it all gets taken care of. With the fine print on these (at least crypto.com’s card) there is some protection it seems but I seriously doubt it’s as robust as with most of the major CC companies.

tl;dr I agree it’s useful for certain large purchases and definitely don’t use it for certain categories of spend; ideally you need to xfer back to USD right away to avoid any fx rate risk (hassle) and be prepared for a headache come tax time.
Staythecourse123
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Staythecourse123 »

[accidental duplicate post] - (I always wondered how this happened when I saw people do this before :D )
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whodidntante
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by whodidntante »

By using either Coinbase Pro or the advanced trading features on vanilla Coinbase, one can get much lower trading fees. Also, use a "post only" order type. I tend to do mostly large transactions and I shall not retain my $#@!coins for long!
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JoMoney
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by JoMoney »

Staythecourse123 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:14 pm [accidental duplicate post] - (I always wondered how this happened when I saw people do this before :D )
It happens... When it happens to me, I just delete the duplicate post. As long as it's the last post in the thread, nobody else posting after it yet (so too late for you now) it gives the option to "Delete" the post.
Image
the "X" icon next to the pencil to edit will just delete the post.
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whodidntante
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by whodidntante »

Staythecourse123 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:14 pm [accidental duplicate post] - (I always wondered how this happened when I saw people do this before :D )
Sometimes the bogleheads.org server takes a lunch break when you submit your post. You do not receive the instant satisfaction you are wired for, so you clicked submit again. Now, it's not really your fault. There are some effective ways to avoid this issue, with you know, automagical software stuff done by geeks, but phpBB is old-timey and implements exactly none of them.
jco
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by jco »

Staythecourse123 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:13 pm FWIW I have a crypto.com card which operates similarly but lower % by a bit, and to be honest I regret it. The thought of doing taxes for 2022 and dealing with all these transactions is giving me nightmares already. I’m not sure the extra 1% or 2% cash back vs any of my 2% standard credit cards is really worth it. Also, it’s a huge pain in the neck with debit cards if used for ‘edge cases’ like any type of hold for reservations (hotels, rental cars, airline seat upgrade that doesn’t go through for whatever reason as happened to me), etc. Can take weeks for the $ to go back into your account and it will be deducted / disappear in the meantime - with a CC it just hits your credit limit but doesn’t actually do anything else.

Let alone the fact that with a credit card if there’s fraudulent activity I can easily call up amex or whoever else and no questions asked it all gets taken care of. With the fine print on these (at least crypto.com’s card) there is some protection it seems but I seriously doubt it’s as robust as with most of the major CC companies.

tl;dr I agree it’s useful for certain large purchases and definitely don’t use it for certain categories of spend; ideally you need to xfer back to USD right away to avoid any fx rate risk (hassle) and be prepared for a headache come tax time.
So they don't automatically compute the relevant tax info for the customer like Fidelity or Vanguard?
Gadget
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by Gadget »

jco wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:19 am
Staythecourse123 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:13 pm FWIW I have a crypto.com card which operates similarly but lower % by a bit, and to be honest I regret it. The thought of doing taxes for 2022 and dealing with all these transactions is giving me nightmares already. I’m not sure the extra 1% or 2% cash back vs any of my 2% standard credit cards is really worth it. Also, it’s a huge pain in the neck with debit cards if used for ‘edge cases’ like any type of hold for reservations (hotels, rental cars, airline seat upgrade that doesn’t go through for whatever reason as happened to me), etc. Can take weeks for the $ to go back into your account and it will be deducted / disappear in the meantime - with a CC it just hits your credit limit but doesn’t actually do anything else.

Let alone the fact that with a credit card if there’s fraudulent activity I can easily call up amex or whoever else and no questions asked it all gets taken care of. With the fine print on these (at least crypto.com’s card) there is some protection it seems but I seriously doubt it’s as robust as with most of the major CC companies.

tl;dr I agree it’s useful for certain large purchases and definitely don’t use it for certain categories of spend; ideally you need to xfer back to USD right away to avoid any fx rate risk (hassle) and be prepared for a headache come tax time.
So they don't automatically compute the relevant tax info for the customer like Fidelity or Vanguard?
No crypto exchange does. It's the biggest issue in crypto is tracking cost basis; even among the biggest crypto proponents. The problem is compounded by so many people in crypto not being educated in how cost basis and taxes work. A good boglehead can surely figure it out and calculate it via spreadsheets (that's what I do), but the average crypto person is completely lost and expects crypto tax software to do it for them. But all the automated crypto tax software is garbage except for the most basic instances, and they all cost a fortune.

It's why I recommend only using the Coinbase debit card for large purchases like estimated taxes. You can get the cost basis info from a spreadsheet output from Coinbase, but only if you remember to do it and understand how to calculate it all yourself. You aren't going to get a bunch of nice tax forms like a real stock brokerage.
patrick
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by patrick »

I've had this card for several months without any problems.

Note that their terms (see "Where can and can't I use the Coinbase Card?" on https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/t ... for-the-us) exclude certain merchants. One poster on https://www.doctorofcredit.com/coinbase ... -waitlist/ reported their card was suspended for using it to make tax payments which could count as a money services business, though perhaps that person had done other fishy things.
patrick
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by patrick »

JoMoney wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:03 pm The "up to 4%" and "Reward rate is variable" is what they're claiming on their website.
They disclose they build a spread into the exchanges between crypto. 1% was just WAG at what the spread impact/cost might run, it probably also varies and could be much more or less depending on how volatile and how liquid the trading is on any particular crypto.
It's stayed at 4% since I got it last year. Credit card reward programs are also subject to change.

The trading spreads look small and if you sell every time you receive rewards the trades will be too small to have much market impact. Note also that spreads apply as a fraction of the amount traded, not the purchase amount. Even if the fees and spread add up to 2.5%, that would only be 2.5% of your 4% rewards, leaving you with 3.9% net rewards. That is still well above what credit cards would offer for general purchases.
bling
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by bling »

i have the card and it works well. 4% on everything is unbeatable. it's a debit card though, so you do need to keep track of how much money is on there. bright side is instant deposit works as advertised, and i've reloaded minutes before paying and the transactions go through.

the biggest problem, as others already mentioned is the tax nightmare. i'm dreading next tax season because i probably won't be able to use TaxHawk (aka FreeTaxUSA) anymore because it doesn't support transaction imports. i'll have to cough up the extra cash to use TaxAct or TurboTax. and that doesn't include what i'll end up paying for crypto tax software.
nydoc
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by nydoc »

I use it for estimated tax and large expenses only.
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VictorStarr
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by VictorStarr »

I decided to try the Coinbase card, deposited $10K and used the card to pay estimated taxes. Because of the $2500/day limit I had to partition my payments.
I paid $9,990 in four payments over four consecutive days and also paid $9.50 in fees. Received $399.58 (in **XML)in rebates and promptly sold **XML for net profit of $411. Now I own taxes for $11 gain.
In total, it took me around an hour because I had to pay in four installments and used three different payment processors. It was way more profitable than paying taxes with a credit card (2.625% BoA Premium with a fee 1.87-1.96%). Overall experience was rather smooth.
nalor511
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by nalor511 »

Be careful using this card to pay just under $2500 tax bills, they shut off my card for "suspicious activity". That's the only significant charges I had on the card
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VictorStarr
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by VictorStarr »

nalor511 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:11 pm Be careful using this card to pay just under $2500 tax bills, they shut off my card for "suspicious activity". That's the only significant charges I had on the card
Thank you for the warning. Coinbase may suspend my card but I am not willing to make a special effort to simulate "normal" spending patters. For me this card makes the most sense for large payments like estimated taxes. Otherwise the overall "cost" of this card would be too high.
Last edited by VictorStarr on Sat May 14, 2022 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
typical.investor
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by typical.investor »

DJZ wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:26 am Anyone sign up for this? What has been your experience?

https://www.coinbase.com/card

David
Not available in Hawaii.
nalor511
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by nalor511 »

VictorStarr wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:04 am
nalor511 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:11 pm Be careful using this card to pay just under $2500 tax bills, they shut off my card for "suspicious activity". That's the only significant charges I had on the card
Thank you for the warning. Coinbase may suspend my card but I am not willing to make a special effort to simulate "normal" spending patters. For me this card makes the most sense for large payments like estimated taxes. Otherwise the overall "cost" of this card would be too high.
Yes that's what I was doing, just big charges, they didn't like that
marcopolo
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by marcopolo »

typical.investor wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 1:23 am
DJZ wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:26 am Anyone sign up for this? What has been your experience?

https://www.coinbase.com/card

David
Not available in Hawaii.
The bits have to travel too far?!
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
typical.investor
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by typical.investor »

MrJedi wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:13 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:03 pm
Impatience wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:52 pm
JoMoney wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:38 pm Those could be sticklers. "Up to 4%" doesn't mean 4% if it varies, and if there is a spread cost when you sell the coin I wouldn't be surprised if that's eating up a percent (or more) both ways, like -1% in the valuation spread you get as the ask price when buying or receive as a reward, and -1% when you sell to redeem it.
All my transactions have been exactly 4%. The app transparently reports the estimated and then finalized % and $ value back. The spread on selling the tokens is more like half a percent on Coinbase. You’re just making up bad sounding numbers with no basis in reality :confused
The "up to 4%" and "Reward rate is variable" is what they're claiming on their website.
They disclose they build a spread into the exchanges between crypto. 1% was just WAG at what the spread impact/cost might run, it probably also varies and could be much more or less depending on how volatile and how liquid the trading is on any particular crypto.
The trading fee is 0.4% or 0.6% depending if you have a maker or taker order (basically non marketable limit order vs market order).

If you spend $1000, you get $40 back in crypto

Then to sell the $40, you would have a 0.4% fee on a limit/maker order, about 16 cents. So you still net $39.84. Spreads are pretty thin from what I've seen. You can see the order books and spread is usually a basis point or two, pretty negligible if you are just looking to sell your reward as soon as you get it.

Say you even eat a spread of 0.1% on a bad trade, that will be an extra 4 cents. So you net $39.80 reward on $1000 spend, effectively 3.98% cash back.

This is all by using the Advanced Trade or Pro interfaces. The fees and spread is much more favorable than using the basic trading interface.

There were questions about basis earlier. Coinbase shows the crypto as having a basis of market value at time of reward. Any gain or loss from that basis is taxable when you sell and Coinbase will also show that to you.

How is the trading fee 0.4 to 0.6%?

If you get cash or spend in other than USD coin, it says the fee is 2.49%.

Are you earning and staying in USD coin?

The agreement says under spending;
Coinbase Wallet Currency Conversion
2.49% of Card transaction amount
This fee is per transaction and is determined and assessed by Coinbase under your agreement with Coinbase governing your Coinbase Wallet account. This fee applies if your linked Coinbase Wallet account is in a digital asset currency
other than USD Coin. This is a third-party fee and is subject to change.
bling
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Re: 4% back no fee Visa debit card

Post by bling »

VictorStarr wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 12:04 am
nalor511 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:11 pm Be careful using this card to pay just under $2500 tax bills, they shut off my card for "suspicious activity". That's the only significant charges I had on the card
Thank you for the warning. Coinbase may suspend my card but I am not willing to make a special effort to simulate "normal" spending patters. For me this card makes the most sense for large payments like estimated taxes. Otherwise the overall "cost" of this card would be too high.
4% is still better than everything else out there except for 5% categories. this could easily become a daily driver card.

since it's a debit card, it does take a little time to readjust to having to reload. however, deposits are instant and i've done it 2 minutes before paying and everything went through just fine.
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