professional POAs and executors

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Animal House
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professional POAs and executors

Post by Animal House »

We do not have any children, nor close enough friends to trust our finances to. I have read other threads on contingent POAs. Is there any experience with elder care lawyer or other professional POAs (for a case when we are both incapacitated) and executors ?
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quietseas
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by quietseas »

We also do not have children. We have three nieces who will likely inherit the bulk of our estate, hopefully not for many years.

At some point we expect to have a conversation along the lines of "you will get this when we are gone, but before we are gone we will need a little help from you". We will do things to make it easier on them. For example, we'd pay for a tax preparer rather than expecting them to do that themselves unless they volunteered. We hopefully will have many years to figure out which of the three nieces will be best able to handle this. One is currently a para legal in her 20s and I think she has promise. The other two are too young to tell. It's financial savy but the person who has to make decisions about health care directives is also important to us since we have very specific preferences about end of life care that we'd want to have honored.

Another option is a professional fiduciary. Terms and certifications vary by state. Here is the professional association's website for CA:
https://pfac-pro.org/

I expect a service such as this will be more than we need, which is why I'm considering younger more distant relatives.
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Animal House
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by Animal House »

Thanks for your reply. Our other issue, which I should have mentioned, is that although we both have nieces and nephews, they all live in Canada, and we live in Georgia. So, I don't believe we can count on any help from them.
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bsteiner
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by bsteiner »

Lawyers may serve as executors but can't seek the appointment. Some clients who don't have anyone else pick their lawyer, often when the estate is too small for a bank or trust company. If you're going to pick a lawyer, I think a trusts and estates lawyer is more likely to be a better fit than an elder law attorney, since an elder law attorney might not hire a trusts and estates lawyer to represent him/her as executor.
Luckywon
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by Luckywon »

If you are incapacitated and need to hire a professional to manage your care and act as your attorney-in-fact for all matters, it's going to be extremely expensive. Depending on whether you are at home or in a facility, and the level of care you need, I'd guess a professional would bill between 10 and 30 hours a week. I acted as conservator for a family member and spent at least 15 hours a week managing things. I think only people who have actually done this have any idea how involved and time intensive such an undertaking is.

When I looked into this in California, most professional fiduciaries were charging around $200 an hour in my area. So, it could be up to $6,000 a week. This would only be for administration of care, not the actual care rendered by caregivers. Of course there would be myriad other expenses including legal, accounting, residential, transportation, food and medical.

I'd surmise that when a person with no loved ones to care for them becomes incapacitated, unless the individual is very wealthy and has a well designed estate plan in place, most people become wards of the state very quickly.
tibbitts
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by tibbitts »

Animal House wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:58 am We do not have any children, nor close enough friends to trust our finances to. I have read other threads on contingent POAs. Is there any experience with elder care lawyer or other professional POAs (for a case when we are both incapacitated) and executors ?
Have you tried recruiting someone? If so what's your experience with that been? I found it was very difficult, especially since you're obviously limited to someone at least a couple of decades younger than you are. And the pandemic has made it more difficult, without being able to meet with people in person. Interestingly, money - or the prospect of maybe receiving money - doesn't seem to be a motivating factor. I was very fortunate to find someone I completely trust to do whatever is necessary, but now I'm completely dependent on that one person, and it would be much better to have a second person to fall back on.
Luckywon
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by Luckywon »

tibbitts wrote: I was very fortunate to find someone I completely trust to do whatever is necessary, but now I'm completely dependent on that one person, and it would be much better to have a second person to fall back on.
It is very fortunate. I think to begin with, a minority of individuals are even capable of managing care for someone else. A smaller subset of those are trustworthy. An even smaller subset are willing, either out of the goodness of their heart, or for money. I also think it's hard to know beforehand whether an individual is and will continue to be all of those things, when push comes to shove.

All one can do is plan, as you have done, and hope for the best.
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Animal House
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by Animal House »

I'm sorry I wasn't more specific.:-( I guess I meant a financial contingent POA in case we are both incapacitated -- someone to keep paying the bills. I know we should also have a contingent for medical POA but that's a different topic.

Thanks for the insights so far.
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celia
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by celia »

Animal House wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:54 pm I'm sorry I wasn't more specific.:-( I guess I meant a financial contingent POA in case we are both incapacitated -- someone to keep paying the bills. I know we should also have a contingent for medical POA but that's a different topic.
What kind of bills do you have that can’t be set up for automatic payment? Most of our handwritten checks are gifts for relatives. Our credit cards are automatically paid from checking. So, whenever we buy something, we just use a credit card.

But that doesn’t mean we don’t have any day-to-day financial tasks. Something bought online can arrive broken (or not at all). I still have to wait for all our tax documents and prepare our taxes. And we need to re-shop our insurance policies.
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ResearchMed
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by ResearchMed »

celia wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:27 pm
Animal House wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:54 pm I'm sorry I wasn't more specific.:-( I guess I meant a financial contingent POA in case we are both incapacitated -- someone to keep paying the bills. I know we should also have a contingent for medical POA but that's a different topic.
What kind of bills do you have that can’t be set up for automatic payment? Most of our handwritten checks are gifts for relatives. Our credit cards are automatically paid from checking. So, whenever we buy something, we just use a credit card.

But that doesn’t mean we don’t have any day-to-day financial tasks. Something bought online can arrive broken (or not at all). I still have to wait for all our tax documents and prepare our taxes. And we need to re-shop our insurance policies.
If they are both incapacitated, there could be bills for things like extra shifts of nursing assistants or similar help, as one example.
Or they could need some special equipment that isn't paid by insurance of some sort.

RM
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Luckywon
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Re: professional POAs and executors

Post by Luckywon »

Animal House wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:54 pm I'm sorry I wasn't more specific.:-( I guess I meant a financial contingent POA in case we are both incapacitated -- someone to keep paying the bills. I know we should also have a contingent for medical POA but that's a different topic.

Thanks for the insights so far.
My understanding is the attorney-in-fact designated in your general POA will not only be paying your bills but also arranging where you live, who takes care of you, your food, clothing, transportation, medical insurance, other insurance, claiming any benefits for you, who visits you and when, how you get to the doctor, paying your taxes, managing your finances, and the list goes on.

Your medical POA would designate the person who medical providers speak to about your care and signs any consents for medical treatment. It could be the same person named in your general POA.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the respective functions of the general and medical POA. Do you have a different understanding? At any rate, I am not understanding why the bills are the sole focus in this thread. Bill payment would presumably be handled by the person who arranged everything that led up to the bill, i.e. the attorney-in-fact designated in your general POA.
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