End of life Documents

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Post Reply
Topic Author
rich126
Posts: 4475
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 pm

End of life Documents

Post by rich126 »

I know there has been some discussions in the past as to things to do in the event of the death of a parent, can someone point me to one, or some web sites they have found useful. Right now I'm a bit distracted with my father just being moved to the hospice and things aren't looking good.

Thanks.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
waterlife
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:03 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by waterlife »

Nolo is a good resource.
User avatar
ApeAttack
Posts: 915
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:28 pm
Location: Gorillatown, USA

Re: End of life Documents

Post by ApeAttack »

I'm sorry to hear about your situation.

Does your father have end-of-life documents? I'm a little confused by the title of the post.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
twh
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:15 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by twh »

Financial POA
Medical POA
If you aren't on his working checking accounts, you will be locked out if he passes away.
Ditto for brokerage accounts.
Regardless of Financial POA status, work with him to get online access to all those accounts ASAP and update beneficiaries ASAP.
Will, especially if there is real estate.
That will make it all easier.
LydBen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:37 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by LydBen »

I am sorry. I went through this earlier this year and made my list from these two sources while sitting at my mom’s beside in hospice.
AARP
https://www.aarp.org/home-family/friend ... klist.html

VA
https://www.lovell.fhcc.va.gov/patients ... h_VSOs.pdf
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95686
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: End of life Documents

Post by LadyGeek »

rich126 - Please see the comprehensive discussions in the wiki: Estate planning (Further reading)

(I also sent you a PM.)

LydBen, Welcome!
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
miket29
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by miket29 »

My condolences to you and your family.

I started a thread a while back to collect information on what info I should leave for my successor trustee and estate executor. Many people added suggestions. The thread is at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=350862
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 15381
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:44 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by JoeRetire »

rich126 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:57 am I know there has been some discussions in the past as to things to do in the event of the death of a parent, can someone point me to one, or some web sites they have found useful. Right now I'm a bit distracted with my father just being moved to the hospice and things aren't looking good.
Sorry about your father.

The first thing to do is determine if your father has already created end of life documents for himself.

After that, talk to the Hospice folks. They are not only a great source of comfort, but a great source of information as well.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Topic Author
rich126
Posts: 4475
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by rich126 »

Thanks.

He has most of the documents. I'm guessing the only difficult thing to get into might be the safe deposit box. My brother and I are beneficiaries on the accounts he has.

As anyone here who has gone through this, visiting someone in hospice is a terribly emotional experience. It felt so bad leaving him there alone. I really wanted to stay there or bring him home, if I had a 2nd bedroom. When I was younger I tended to avoid sad situations (maybe ignore them?). But now that you get older you get a bit wiser and understand things you have to do. I'll paraphrase this to avoid but I recall years ago someone saying "Kids do what they want to do, adults do what they have to do". It took me a while to grow up.

Enjoy life while you can. I think my father thought he had a while to go but the last couple of months things just didn't seem to improve despite not having anything I would consider terminal. And when I moved out west he was fine at 82, but about a year later started having bad issues, covid hit, limited trips to the gym, and since I've been back (late July) he has mostly been in the hospital or a rehab center.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95686
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: End of life Documents

Post by LadyGeek »

rich126 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:10 pm I'm guessing the only difficult thing to get into might be the safe deposit box.
Do you have access now? If not, it would be a good idea to know what's in the safe deposit box.

Once the safe deposit box owner passes, no access will be permitted. This is state law, and the law varies by state. For PA, the law is: Pennsylvania Inheritance Tax & Safe Deposit Boxes
Who may enter a safe deposit box after the death of a decedent?

Until an inventory of the box can be performed (see below), no one is allowed to enter a safe deposit box, not even a joint owner, except to remove a will and/or burial instructions, which must be removed in the presence of a bank employee. The bank employee must complete PA Form REV-487 (Entry Into A Safe Deposit Box To Remove A Will Or Cemetery Deed) to record the entry and mail it to the PA Department of Revenue. The contents of safe deposit boxes must be inventoried before they can be removed.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
User avatar
JoeRetire
Posts: 15381
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:44 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by JoeRetire »

rich126 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:10 pm He has most of the documents.
Good. If you haven't already done so, it might make sense to gather them up, take an inventory to determine what else is needed, and read them though now.
I'm guessing the only difficult thing to get into might be the safe deposit box.
Do you or your brother already have joint access? If so, you should go now and bring the contents home.
As anyone here who has gone through this, visiting someone in hospice is a terribly emotional experience. It felt so bad leaving him there alone. I really wanted to stay there or bring him home, if I had a 2nd bedroom. When I was younger I tended to avoid sad situations (maybe ignore them?). But now that you get older you get a bit wiser and understand things you have to do. I'll paraphrase this to avoid but I recall years ago someone saying "Kids do what they want to do, adults do what they have to do". It took me a while to grow up.
It can be difficult. I was lucky enough that my dad passed at home. With the help of hospice, my siblings and I were able to make his final days relatively comfortable.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95686
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: End of life Documents

Post by LadyGeek »

rich126 - Does your Dad have a POA (Power of Attorney) document? If so, are you the named person to act on his behalf? This is the time to start using it. (If your brother is the named POA person, then your brother needs to act.)

If your Dad is able, work with him to transition handling the finances. Get POA for his investments. You can do that at Vanguard with the "Agent authorization" form.

Banks have their own POAs. It's a simple matter to go to the bank with your Dad and complete a POA form. Not so simple if he can't travel with you, which is where the attorney's POA form comes into play. Call the bank and ask how to proceed. What documents do they need? This needs to be done now. Once that's in-place, you have the legal authority to write checks and make deposits.

FYI - Checks are signed as "rich126, POA for rich126's dad." I do this for my Mom's checks. Checks are endorsed as "For deposit only" (unless they're being cashed).

This is overwhelming. I recommend keeping a notebook of everything that needs to be done. Make a list and cross things off as they get done. Write down every phone call and enough details that you can refer to it later. Don't worry about keeping it organized. Writing it down can be hard enough on its own (from an emotional perspective). Also, see my follow-up PM.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Topic Author
rich126
Posts: 4475
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by rich126 »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:01 pm rich126 - Does your Dad have a POA (Power of Attorney) document? If so, are you the named person to act on his behalf? This is the time to start using it. (If your brother is the named POA person, then your brother needs to act.)

If your Dad is able, work with him to transition handling the finances. Get POA for his investments. You can do that at Vanguard with the "Agent authorization" form.

Banks have their own POAs. It's a simple matter to go to the bank with your Dad and complete a POA form. Not so simple if he can't travel with you, which is where the attorney's POA form comes into play. Call the bank and ask how to proceed. What documents do they need? This needs to be done now. Once that's in-place, you have the legal authority to write checks and make deposits.

FYI - Checks are signed as "rich126, POA for rich126's dad." I do this for my Mom's checks. Checks are endorsed as "For deposit only" (unless they're being cashed).

This is overwhelming. I recommend keeping a notebook of everything that needs to be done. Make a list and cross things off as they get done. Write down every phone call and enough details that you can refer to it later. Don't worry about keeping it organized. Writing it down can be hard enough on its own (from an emotional perspective). Also, see my follow-up PM.
My brother and I are listed as 50/50% beneficiaries on the Vanguard accounts. We are also listed the same way on a life insurance policy. The rest of his money (pension/social security) aren't things we will inherit. The retirement apartment required a deposit and eventually we will get that as well.

The issues (I would say somewhat minor) are:
1. Contents of the apartment.
2. His car
3. Safe deposit box

I believe my brother has the power of attorney since he has always lived in the area. I've often been across the country so it didn't make sense to use me if I'm hours away. My uncle will be the executor of the will. I have an attorney that is fairly helpful (w/o charging me) on basic questions. If there were no will, no beneficiaries, etc. then I would be more concerned.

At this point I can't imagine bothering my father in his condition to sign anything or do anything more. Maybe a poor decision but he and my late mother were excellent parents, gave us a solid upbringing, paid for my education and I will end up getting a bit of an inheritance. That is more than many are able to say.

I kind of feel guilty I don't have a place big enough to let him live his final days in.

My brother and I have access to his bank account to pay bills although I guess since I'm don't have POA, I should let my brother do that. Having account access doesn't mean you have permission to do so.

Thank you all.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
increment
Posts: 1735
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 2:20 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by increment »

rich126 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:58 pm I believe my brother has the power of attorney since he has always lived in the area. I've often been across the country so it didn't make sense to use me if I'm hours away. My uncle will be the executor of the will. [...]

My brother and I have access to his bank account to pay bills
If your father is the sole person on the title of this bank account, remember that access to it disappears when he passes away. The executor will be able to get to it after filing the appropriate paperwork. Any Power of Attorney authority expires upon death.
twh
Posts: 1773
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:15 pm

Re: End of life Documents

Post by twh »

On the car, most states have a DMV power of attorney form. You should be able to get him to sign just that form and your bother can take it to the DMV and add his name to the title. That will make it easier with the car. Did that with my FIL.
Post Reply