Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

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Starfish
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Starfish »

newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:21 pm How does one even become CEO material? Like guys making 8-9 figure income. I am talking about the CEO guys who are not founders. Do you get there with some special talent? Connections? Because these guys usually jump from one CEO position to another.

The ones I know (2 of them) climbed management, and them jumped to smaller companies in higher title jobs and so on. Once they are CEO and have positive results, can go to larger company.
TheNightsToCome
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by TheNightsToCome »

Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:11 am
diabelli wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:39 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
I'll also chime in to say that this isn't my experience.
Academia these numbers are somewhat accurate.
A thriving private group gets partners 500k-1mil in medical subspecialties and likely 700k-1.2mil in surgical specialties. This is true even in the northeast. Of course there are some groups which aren't doing so well, or which pull along employees paying them 300-400k for years before letting them into the bigger money.
You have to open your own practice. Corporate does not pay 500k- 1 million per year.
This is not correct.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by sents13 »

Bungo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:36 pm
I can't speak for the others, but at Apple (one of the A's in FAANG), there are plenty of 50+ making outstanding compensation (and outstanding contributions, of course), particularly in the past five years as the stock price multiplied by nearly 6x. I was able to retire at 52 this year as a result but would have been very welcome to stay (and continue to be overpaid :D ) for as long as I wanted. It is challenging and stressful work; much more so than at any of my previous employers. But this is also very team-dependent.
How many people in your orgs are over 50+, percentage wise? Quantifying 'plenty' would help. I can tell you in my org of 200+ pax, less than 10 are over 50. I'm mid-30s and I'm older than everyone in my team. Age discrimination is real. Cherry picking the surviving 50+ year olds who made it to L7+ is really providing evidence for that. In tech, the only old people who stay are Tech Fellows or Directors.

But in doctor/lawyer field, the older you are, the more valuable you become.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by sents13 »

fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm
I think early retirement and bailing on the industry is definitely part of the "out at 50" thing in megatech.. it's not all age discrimination. Some is "I've had enough and I have enough" - certainly that was me, and at least 10 of my peers in the previous 18 months also left to raise a Alpacas or something equally random.

Most tech jobs are utterly pointless, and at some point you just ain't interested in doing it any more, even if they want to keep throwing money at you.
That's gaslighting. Say you reach Senior L5 and coast at $200-400k, why on earth would you ever leave that job? It's definitely about age discrimination and the IBM lawsuit proves that.

Where else can you work 40hrs/wk and get paid that much with little or no stress? You're getting the same pay as Director-level positions at Fortune 500 companies (not-tech) and you are just an expendable IC. You are getting between 2-4X more money compared to most other professional jobs at comparable level of experience and training. You cannot find a better deal anywhere else. And despite what tech people complain, our jobs are cushy compared to banking and consulting. And if you reach L6+ and earn $500k+/yr, why would you ever want to stop? Unless you really hate your job...
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by fortunefavored »

sents13 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:56 pm
fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm
I think early retirement and bailing on the industry is definitely part of the "out at 50" thing in megatech.. it's not all age discrimination. Some is "I've had enough and I have enough" - certainly that was me, and at least 10 of my peers in the previous 18 months also left to raise a Alpacas or something equally random.

Most tech jobs are utterly pointless, and at some point you just ain't interested in doing it any more, even if they want to keep throwing money at you.
That's gaslighting. Say you reach Senior L5 and coast at $200-400k, why on earth would you ever leave that job? It's definitely about age discrimination and the IBM lawsuit proves that.

Where else can you work 40hrs/wk and get paid that much with little or no stress? You're getting the same pay as Director-level positions at Fortune 500 companies (not-tech) and you are just an expendable IC. You are getting between 2-4X more money compared to most other professional jobs at comparable level of experience and training. You cannot find a better deal anywhere else. And despite what tech people complain, our jobs are cushy compared to banking and consulting. And if you reach L6+ and earn $500k+/yr, why would you ever want to stop? Unless you really hate your job...
Well, going by a sample of 1, I walked away from $500K-1M/year in my late 40s. :) Plus my other 10 colleagues and their Alpacas. None of them were being pushed out (they were all top of their game.)

I'm certainly not denying it exists - if you get laid off at 50, you're in a world of hurt.

Are you near 50 yet? Your perspective changes significantly from 30 to 50 on what is important.. it certainly did for me.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

sents13 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:56 pm
fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm
I think early retirement and bailing on the industry is definitely part of the "out at 50" thing in megatech.. it's not all age discrimination. Some is "I've had enough and I have enough" - certainly that was me, and at least 10 of my peers in the previous 18 months also left to raise a Alpacas or something equally random.

Most tech jobs are utterly pointless, and at some point you just ain't interested in doing it any more, even if they want to keep throwing money at you.
That's gaslighting. Say you reach Senior L5 and coast at $200-400k, why on earth would you ever leave that job? It's definitely about age discrimination and the IBM lawsuit proves that.

Where else can you work 40hrs/wk and get paid that much with little or no stress? You're getting the same pay as Director-level positions at Fortune 500 companies (not-tech) and you are just an expendable IC. You are getting between 2-4X more money compared to most other professional jobs at comparable level of experience and training. You cannot find a better deal anywhere else. And despite what tech people complain, our jobs are cushy compared to banking and consulting. And if you reach L6+ and earn $500k+/yr, why would you ever want to stop? Unless you really hate your job...
Because I'd rather spend that 40 hours a week doing something else?
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Dontsell1 »

novemberrain wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:22 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:11 am You have to open your own practice. Corporate does not pay 500k- 1 million per year.
I have first hand data. Your statement is incorrect.
Medical (non surgical) specialist I am speaking of; earns right in that range; and can get even much above that range if not for the lack of desire.
Yes, corporate does pay some of their physician employees that much. Even in the northeast.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Bungo »

sents13 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:53 pm How many people in your orgs are over 50+, percentage wise? Quantifying 'plenty' would help. I can tell you in my org of 200+ pax, less than 10 are over 50. I'm mid-30s and I'm older than everyone in my team. Age discrimination is real. Cherry picking the surviving 50+ year olds who made it to L7+ is really providing evidence for that. In tech, the only old people who stay are Tech Fellows or Directors.
I don't know the overall demographics at Apple, but among the teams I'm familiar with (various iOS SW teams and a few HW teams) I would estimate maybe 10% were over 50, with a median age of 30 to 35. Of the over 50 crowd, yes some are directors or tech fellows, others are ordinary managers, and some are ICs, not necessarily top level. I knew some that were only ICT4 (more or less Apple's equivalent of Google's L5) who didn't excel enough to be promoted beyond that level but were not in any obvious danger of being shown the door. But like I said, I'm not familiar with the other FAANGs and the story may well be different there.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

sents13 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:53 pm
Bungo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:36 pm
I can't speak for the others, but at Apple (one of the A's in FAANG), there are plenty of 50+ making outstanding compensation (and outstanding contributions, of course), particularly in the past five years as the stock price multiplied by nearly 6x. I was able to retire at 52 this year as a result but would have been very welcome to stay (and continue to be overpaid :D ) for as long as I wanted. It is challenging and stressful work; much more so than at any of my previous employers. But this is also very team-dependent.
How many people in your orgs are over 50+, percentage wise? Quantifying 'plenty' would help. I can tell you in my org of 200+ pax, less than 10 are over 50. I'm mid-30s and I'm older than everyone in my team. Age discrimination is real. Cherry picking the surviving 50+ year olds who made it to L7+ is really providing evidence for that. In tech, the only old people who stay are Tech Fellows or Directors.

But in doctor/lawyer field, the older you are, the more valuable you become.
Anecdotal, but when I was at Microsoft there were quite a lot of 50+ ICs who'd been there for years and never progressed past the senior band, although there were also many who had. A lot of them were engineering managers, too. There were of course also a lot of people within 2 or 3 years of graduation.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Bungo »

fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm I think early retirement and bailing on the industry is definitely part of the "out at 50" thing in megatech.. it's not all age discrimination. Some is "I've had enough and I have enough" - certainly that was me, and at least 10 of my peers in the previous 18 months also left to raise a Alpacas or something equally random.

Most tech jobs are utterly pointless, and at some point you just ain't interested in doing it any more, even if they want to keep throwing money at you.
That was certainly my story. I could have stayed and continued to accumulate money, but I wasn't finding it all that interesting and it was taking all of my time and energy. I had enough to retire and spend my time doing what I want to do instead of what others want me to do. But I've known surprisingly few people who bailed like me. Far more typical among those I know who are 50+ is that they refuse to consider moving out of the Bay Area and therefore feel the need to amass far more money before they can retire. There's a lot of opportunity cost locked up in their houses...
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Bungo »

KyleAAA wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:03 pm Because I'd rather spend that 40 hours a week doing something else?
+1000. I can earn more money but I can't earn more time.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by luckyducky99 »

Bungo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:19 pm
KyleAAA wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:03 pm Because I'd rather spend that 40 hours a week doing something else?
+1000. I can earn more money but I can't earn more time.
+1001. Once you have enough money, the happiness you get from more money is close to zero, but the happiness you get from having the time and energy to do all the things you love to do is huge.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by visualguy »

Bungo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:18 pm
fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm I think early retirement and bailing on the industry is definitely part of the "out at 50" thing in megatech.. it's not all age discrimination. Some is "I've had enough and I have enough" - certainly that was me, and at least 10 of my peers in the previous 18 months also left to raise a Alpacas or something equally random.

Most tech jobs are utterly pointless, and at some point you just ain't interested in doing it any more, even if they want to keep throwing money at you.
That was certainly my story. I could have stayed and continued to accumulate money, but I wasn't finding it all that interesting and it was taking all of my time and energy. I had enough to retire and spend my time doing what I want to do instead of what others want me to do. But I've known surprisingly few people who bailed like me. Far more typical among those I know who are 50+ is that they refuse to consider moving out of the Bay Area and therefore feel the need to amass far more money before they can retire. There's a lot of opportunity cost locked up in their houses...
Why not look for a more interesting job, or maybe one with a better work/life balance? The reality is that it's not that easy to make such transitions at that age in this field for various reasons, so once you're out (voluntarily or not), you're likely to stay out.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Bungo »

sents13 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:56 pm Where else can you work 40hrs/wk and get paid that much with little or no stress? You're getting the same pay as Director-level positions at Fortune 500 companies (not-tech) and you are just an expendable IC. You are getting between 2-4X more money compared to most other professional jobs at comparable level of experience and training. You cannot find a better deal anywhere else. And despite what tech people complain, our jobs are cushy compared to banking and consulting. And if you reach L6+ and earn $500k+/yr, why would you ever want to stop? Unless you really hate your job...
Speaking only for myself, in addition to the reasons already cited (had enough money and wanted my time to myself), the main reason I bailed this year is because I had by far maxed out my compensation (just over $1M in 2020) as a result of having negotiated a large initial RSU package when I started four years earlier and stellar stock performance during those four years. I was looking at a likely 50% drop in total compensation the next year because the initial RSUs had all been cashed out. Yes, $500k is still a lot, but certainly much less incentivizing than the previous few years. It seemed as good a time to pull the plug as any. I suspect that similar arithmetic drives many people's decisions when they bail from FAANGs, although not necessarily to bail out of tech entirely.

Edit to add: oh yeah, and the other big motivation was the company's insistence that people were going to have to return to the office for 3 days a week, starting in June, oops, August, oops, October, oops, January, oops, who knows when but in any case I had no interest in returning. Just before the pandemic started, our team had been moved out of comfortable two-man offices with doors into a horrible and very overcrowded open-plan space. Thanks but no thanks!
Last edited by Bungo on Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Bungo »

visualguy wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:27 pm Why not look for a more interesting job, or maybe one with a better work/life balance? The reality is that it's not that easy to make such transitions at that age in this field for various reasons, so once you're out (voluntarily or not), you're likely to stay out.
You can't beat the work/life balance of retirement! I can't say with certainty that I'll never work again, and for now I'm still being hounded by recruiters, but to me, that's just out of the frying pan and into the fire, and probably with lower compensation as I'm unlikely to replicate the RSU package that I got last time I changed jobs - several planets had to align to make that happen.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by visualguy »

Bungo wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:33 pm
visualguy wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:27 pm Why not look for a more interesting job, or maybe one with a better work/life balance? The reality is that it's not that easy to make such transitions at that age in this field for various reasons, so once you're out (voluntarily or not), you're likely to stay out.
You can't beat the work/life balance of retirement! I can't say with certainty that I'll never work again, and for now I'm still being hounded by recruiters, but to me, that's just out of the frying pan and into the fire, and probably with lower compensation as I'm unlikely to replicate the RSU package that I got last time I changed jobs - several planets had to align to make that happen.
The balance isn't really there because the work part is missing :wink:
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Bungo »

visualguy wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:37 pm The balance isn't really there because the work part is missing :wink:
Not to worry, my wife has been filling my days with chores now that I have so much "free time." :P
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:49 am
NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:42 pm C. I follow Munger's advice to learn enough to determine if the experts are full of crap
D. I sacrificed family life for 20 years to devote more time to compound learning
My son and I just had a discussion about this, especially compound learning. Everyone talks about compounding in finance here, but the really life-changing move is to compound skills and knowledge. It doesn’t take that much; 15% compounded will have you be the star and compensated for it.
1.15^20 = 16.366537393

wowzers. I think 15% is hard :-) Or maybe not. Maybe this succinctly explains the power law of why evil folks are able to make more than $400k?
-- | Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts - Einstein | *Everything I write here is an unreliable opinion*
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

Hoosier CPA wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:19 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:51 pm
HomerJ wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:25 pm

My favorite (as a low-level worker bee), is when the new head honcho comes in and changes everything (because he has to be seen doing "something" to justify that big salary), then 3-4 years later, they are replaced by a new head honcho, who promptly changes everything back.

Example:

New Head Honcho #1: "What, we are standardized? We can save money and lower prices by getting the vendors to bid against each other!"
New Head Honcho #2: "What, we have 4 different solutions? We can save money by standardizing and becoming more efficient!"
Lol yep. And ditto to being horizontally vs. vertically organized. Every 3 years without fail we’ll flip flop
That's funny you mention that - I've worked in two different corps now and they've both done that same re-org twice. Each time with new head leadership and based on recommendations of outside consultants.
https://kevinkruse.com/the-ceo-and-the-three-envelopes/
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

Tigranes wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:56 am Chief actuary at a mid sized insurer.

You generally need to be at least VP or SVP/Officer level to make over the 400k in this industry. Most, maybe 80%, of execs in insurance that I am familiar with got there through networking. Not to say they aren't hard working and diligent people, but certainly not deserving of some olympian analogy.
Some folks at Milliman make >$50M when they cash out.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by FlatSix »

newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 am
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
I would say 1 mil is the bare minimum. So yes rural, much more.
That’s a huge stretch, self reported data via Doxmity shows a median of 700-800k for established neurosurgeons. (707k for NYC). They also don’t come straight out “school,” as training after med school consists of 7-9+ years of residency and fellowship.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Edify »

In NY many state, county, town and village employees have great earning opportunities. See: https://seethroughny.net/payrolls
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Firemenot »

Edify wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:20 pm In NY many state, county, town and village employees have great earning opportunities. See: https://seethroughny.net/payrolls
That’s really unbelievable. I wonder what job the following person has (name redacted): “Department of Corrections $2,169,734 Attica Correctional Facility.”. I guess we can add at least one prison job to this list.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by TheNightsToCome »

calvin+hobbes wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:05 pm
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 am
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
I would say 1 mil is the bare minimum. So yes rural, much more.
That’s a huge stretch, self reported data via Doxmity shows a median of 700-800k for established neurosurgeons. (707k for NYC). They also don’t come straight out “school,” as training after med school consists of 7-9+ years of residency and fellowship.
Also, you'll be hard-pressed to find any rural hospitals performing neurosurgery.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Dusn »

calvin+hobbes wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:05 pm
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 am
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
I would say 1 mil is the bare minimum. So yes rural, much more.
That’s a huge stretch, self reported data via Doxmity shows a median of 700-800k for established neurosurgeons. (707k for NYC). They also don’t come straight out “school,” as training after med school consists of 7-9+ years of residency and fellowship.
The high numbers for physicians are based off of procedural physicians who are business owners who often also own investments (like surgical centers), which follows a common theme on this thread. In any field (except maybe FAANG jobs) if you own your own business, you’ll make much more than those who are employees.
Last edited by Dusn on Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by scientist_87 »

I work in tech as I.C. with PhD in STEM and 6+ yoe. Recently landed a job with 400k+ TC. I don't know for how many years I can sustain this income. For folks who have been making 400k+ for several years, how long does it take to reach 5M NW ?
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by arandomdude84 »

i work in tech as an I.C. (programmer) in a VHCOL coastal city.

My current compensation target is: ~$500k per year mix of cash and stock in a publicly traded company that I sell as soon as they vest.

I was offered a job yesterday with a target total comp of ~$750k, again mix of cash and stock. I am thinking of turning it down.

It is pretty common for high level I.C.'s to get offers > 1M$ per year in total comp -- I know several who make this much.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by TheNightsToCome »

Dusn wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:28 pm
calvin+hobbes wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:05 pm
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 am
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am

No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
I would say 1 mil is the bare minimum. So yes rural, much more.
That’s a huge stretch, self reported data via Doxmity shows a median of 700-800k for established neurosurgeons. (707k for NYC). They also don’t come straight out “school,” as training after med school consists of 7-9+ years of residency and fellowship.
The high numbers for physicians are based off of procedural physicians who are business owners who often also own investments (like surgical centers), which follows a common theme on this thread. In any field (except maybe FAANG jobs) if you own your own business, you’ll make much more than those who are employees.
Many employed specialists earn > 400-500K.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

scientist_87 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:32 pm I work in tech as I.C. with PhD in STEM and 6+ yoe. Recently landed a job with 400k+ TC. I don't know for how many years I can sustain this income. For folks who have been making 400k+ for several years, how long does it take to reach 5M NW ?
I believe it would heavily depend on stock market and your investment. But purely, 400k+ will get you 200k saving per year so 25 years if not invested. But i think investing into the market can make that shorter by many years.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

arandomdude84 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:48 pm i work in tech as an I.C. (programmer) in a VHCOL coastal city.

My current compensation target is: ~$500k per year mix of cash and stock in a publicly traded company that I sell as soon as they vest.

I was offered a job yesterday with a target total comp of ~$750k, again mix of cash and stock. I am thinking of turning it down.

It is pretty common for high level I.C.'s to get offers > 1M$ per year in total comp -- I know several who make this much.
I am definitely in the wrong field
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

calvin+hobbes wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:05 pm
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 am
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
I would say 1 mil is the bare minimum. So yes rural, much more.
That’s a huge stretch, self reported data via Doxmity shows a median of 700-800k for established neurosurgeons. (707k for NYC). They also don’t come straight out “school,” as training after med school consists of 7-9+ years of residency and fellowship.
Since you are actually in the field, i wouldnt argue with you but is that figure accurate? I know of few who makes 1.5-1.7 range. Even in my field, those figures are not accurate. People usually make 2x to 3x.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by scientist_87 »

newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:51 pm
scientist_87 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:32 pm I work in tech as I.C. with PhD in STEM and 6+ yoe. Recently landed a job with 400k+ TC. I don't know for how many years I can sustain this income. For folks who have been making 400k+ for several years, how long does it take to reach 5M NW ?
I believe it would heavily depend on stock market and your investment. But purely, 400k+ will get you 200k saving per year so 25 years if not invested. But i think investing into the market can make that shorter by many years.
My current NW is close to 1M and live in VHCOL. I don't plan on working for 25 yrs, more like 10-15 at the most till I reach 5M or more with a paid-off house and sufficient funds in 529s. Given inflation and market situation post-covid, its hard to predict how long it will take to reach my goal.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

scientist_87 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:04 pm
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:51 pm
scientist_87 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:32 pm I work in tech as I.C. with PhD in STEM and 6+ yoe. Recently landed a job with 400k+ TC. I don't know for how many years I can sustain this income. For folks who have been making 400k+ for several years, how long does it take to reach 5M NW ?
I believe it would heavily depend on stock market and your investment. But purely, 400k+ will get you 200k saving per year so 25 years if not invested. But i think investing into the market can make that shorter by many years.
My current NW is close to 1M and live in VHCOL. I don't plan on working for 25 yrs, more like 10-15 at the most till I reach 5M or more with a paid-off house and sufficient funds in 529s. Given inflation and market situation post-covid, its hard to predict how long it will take to reach my goal.

Its very heavily dependent on the market and inflation. Seems like we have similar goal. Retire and chill.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Nathan Drake »

Dusn wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:18 am
fortunefavored wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:39 am
Dusn wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:59 am
Shael_AT wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:30 pm
[Expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] For all you managers out here, I don't know how you can live a fulfilling emotional life with the kinds of decisions and behaviors you must make and adapt.
Can someone give an example of what these types of soul sucking decisions that tech managers have to make are and why?
I could rant about it for days. Megacorp tech management is truly soul destroying. The issue, fundamentally, is money. It is a pyramid - the higher up you go, the bigger the compensation stakes.. and the fewer people who can claim those stakes. To be clear, the real evil starts once you get beyond first line manager.. managers generally are shielded from the worst of it.

You must toe the company line 1000%, even if it is terrible and stupid. Then you must constantly be battling politically to fight off all those other people who want to claw up that compensation ladder. Make yourself look good, make other people look bad (although NO ONE would ever admit that was what they were effectively doing.) Or else you're put on the "no future" list and/or pushed out.

Alliances, backstabbing.. it's non-stop. Being forced to spin bad decisions to staff and sell them on it, justifying insane changes in compensation structures, selling terrible company strategic decisions or tactics, creating doomed plans but having no choice but to pretend they were great, deciding who gets laid off for no good reason due to executive management arbitrary targets, stealth performance rankings of individuals that will doom their careers, diversity quotas without daring to say they were diversity quotas.. just on and on.

The higher you go, the worse it is. I honestly think 95% of my peers were sociopaths. They could do this stuff without blinking and think nothing was wrong with it.
This sounds horrible. None of this sounds like a culture that would allow companies to succeed in the long run and yet this is the culture in the largest tech companies?
Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Goldwater85 »

I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by anon_investor »

Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by clatexpecti »

I am an emergency medicine physician making mid 400s. Will hopefully be closer to 500k next year.

However, I am the most miserable I’ve been in my entire life. The job is insanely stressful, we work nights, weekends, holidays, with no circadian rhythm whatsoever. I get death threats on a regular basis from patients. The pandemic has not helped. There is a large list of things I’d rather do right now than this job and I am looking to leave as soon as possible. Every day I regret my choice of practicing medicine.

Sometimes the money is just not worth it.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by EddyB »

Dusn wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:28 pm
calvin+hobbes wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:05 pm
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 am
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am

No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
I would say 1 mil is the bare minimum. So yes rural, much more.
That’s a huge stretch, self reported data via Doxmity shows a median of 700-800k for established neurosurgeons. (707k for NYC). They also don’t come straight out “school,” as training after med school consists of 7-9+ years of residency and fellowship.
The high numbers for physicians are based off of procedural physicians who are business owners who often also own investments (like surgical centers), which follows a common theme on this thread. In any field (except maybe FAANG jobs) if you own your own business, you’ll make much more than those who are employees.
Well, you might.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by LiveSimple »

Just got interested, what will be $400 K will be for the MCOL midwest ?
Invest when you have the money, sell when you need the money, for real life expenses...
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by stoptothink »

KyleAAA wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:03 pm
sents13 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:56 pm
fortunefavored wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm
I think early retirement and bailing on the industry is definitely part of the "out at 50" thing in megatech.. it's not all age discrimination. Some is "I've had enough and I have enough" - certainly that was me, and at least 10 of my peers in the previous 18 months also left to raise a Alpacas or something equally random.

Most tech jobs are utterly pointless, and at some point you just ain't interested in doing it any more, even if they want to keep throwing money at you.
That's gaslighting. Say you reach Senior L5 and coast at $200-400k, why on earth would you ever leave that job? It's definitely about age discrimination and the IBM lawsuit proves that.

Where else can you work 40hrs/wk and get paid that much with little or no stress? You're getting the same pay as Director-level positions at Fortune 500 companies (not-tech) and you are just an expendable IC. You are getting between 2-4X more money compared to most other professional jobs at comparable level of experience and training. You cannot find a better deal anywhere else. And despite what tech people complain, our jobs are cushy compared to banking and consulting. And if you reach L6+ and earn $500k+/yr, why would you ever want to stop? Unless you really hate your job...
Because I'd rather spend that 40 hours a week doing something else?
You've been earning serious money since young adulthood, but the only reason you may not be working at FAANG anymore later in life is because "age discrimination"? We're on a board where the large majority of posters are trying to retire by 50 (or shortly after) and Sents can't think of another reason why someone with a ton of money may not be working by that age? We don't earn close to $400k/yr combined and there is about zero chance my wife (in fintech) or I (science/healthcare) will be working at 50...age discrimination?
Last edited by stoptothink on Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by chazas »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:47 pm
Goldwater85 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:38 pm I don’t understand all of the Big Law bashing. It’s similar to a residency as far as training and hours (yes, law hours are less predictable), except that it pays much better than a residency.

Then, 3-6 years in, you can bail and make $300-500k as Big Law alum with a good work-life balance. Or keep grinding and make $2-5mm as a Big Law Partner / Corporate GC.

How is that not an enviable offer?
Because the burnout is real, and it is really tough on family life.
And speaking as a long time biglaw partner, that $2-5M is not easy to come by. I’m nowhere near there even though I’m at the top of my field intellectually and reputationally because of a lot of career twists and turns and, well, I’m not a great salesman. The politics are insane, there is always a target on your back. I’m glad I’m about done.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by 22twain »

LiveSimple wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:54 am Just got interested, what will be $400 K will be for the MCOL midwest ?
College football coach. :wink:

(also applies for the LCOL southeast)
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by FlatSix »

newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:54 pm
calvin+hobbes wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:05 pm
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:49 am
anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 am
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am

No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
I would say 1 mil is the bare minimum. So yes rural, much more.
That’s a huge stretch, self reported data via Doxmity shows a median of 700-800k for established neurosurgeons. (707k for NYC). They also don’t come straight out “school,” as training after med school consists of 7-9+ years of residency and fellowship.
Since you are actually in the field, i wouldnt argue with you but is that figure accurate? I know of few who makes 1.5-1.7 range. Even in my field, those figures are not accurate. People usually make 2x to 3x.
They certainly can and do make quite a bit more than that figure. There are also some who make less even when established. Just wanted to add that it is not typical for starting comp to be 1MM for a fresh graduate.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by arf30 »

I work in tech, with 10+ years experience at the right companies I've passed that limit with a good work/life balance. I've also got two neighbors that I assume make over 7 figures a year judging by their houses and cars, one is a general contractor and custom home builder, the other is in his family's produce supply business, both are multi generational businesses. The contractor is super busy and I almost never see him, the produce guy seems to sit home all day.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by canadianbacon »

Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
This was so well put.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by austin757 »

Are any of the high earners counting income from more than one source? Say if you make $300k from your FT job and then another $100k from real estate or a side business, or something similar. Not talking about household income where both people work.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HootingSloth »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:25 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:13 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:07 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:00 pm The vast majority of lawyers make substantially less than 400K.
True - and for all professions, there’s a progression of salary and title increase. You generally don’t graduate into a top job. You work your way up. Over decades.
Let me rephrase — the vast majority of lawyers will NEVER make more than 400K in their career. That said, it can be done, for sure. I’ve been doing it the last few years on total comp, but only because stock price is growing.

In general, the numbers for attorneys are highly skewed. Almost no one makes the average salary as it’s a bimodal distribution. And the bottom paying node is larger. As a percentage of total lawyers, Big Law jobs don’t represent many.
True - big law is a tiny sliver of the legal profession.
Just to put a number on it, about 10% of U.S. licensed lawyers work in an Amlaw 200 firm (about 130,000 out of 1.3 million). Most of those are in an Amlaw 100 firm (about 100,000). Because of the leverage at these firms, it's probably the case that about 3-5% of U.S. licensed lawyers are making $400k+ in biglaw. Some in house positions would have to be added to that number, but probably not all that many.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by stoptothink »

HootingSloth wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:56 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:25 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:13 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:07 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:00 pm The vast majority of lawyers make substantially less than 400K.
True - and for all professions, there’s a progression of salary and title increase. You generally don’t graduate into a top job. You work your way up. Over decades.
Let me rephrase — the vast majority of lawyers will NEVER make more than 400K in their career. That said, it can be done, for sure. I’ve been doing it the last few years on total comp, but only because stock price is growing.

In general, the numbers for attorneys are highly skewed. Almost no one makes the average salary as it’s a bimodal distribution. And the bottom paying node is larger. As a percentage of total lawyers, Big Law jobs don’t represent many.
True - big law is a tiny sliver of the legal profession.
Just to put a number on it, about 10% of U.S. licensed lawyers work in an Amlaw 200 firm (about 130,000 out of 1.3 million). Most of those are in an Amlaw 100 firm (about 100,000). Because of the leverage at these firms, it's probably the case that about 3-5% of U.S. licensed lawyers are making $400k+ in biglaw. Some in house positions would have to be added to that number, but probably not all that many.
It's insane how bimodal compensation in law is, yet it is still considering such a prestigious career and a direct path to wealth. I'd guesstimate that about half the people I know who went to law school don't even practice law, a few of them never did.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

canadianbacon wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:04 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:18 pm Is this any surprise?

BigTech is an industry centered around addiction and gambling. The entire focus of this industry is keeping us locked and addicted to our devices, locked and addicted to our social networks, where they can get more and more advertising revenue so the consumer class can continue buying more goods they likely don't need.

It's an industry entirely based on gamification, where the customer is the lever they can use to increase profits. It shouldn't be surprising that Tech management that sees their social ecosystems and platforms of consumers as NUMBERS TO BE GAMED in the name of profit is largely comprised of sociopathic culture.

The name "Tech" gives it a forward and progressive label, when it's largely nothing even close - it prey's on society's most vulnerable and pushes every single button of human nature to accomplish its goal.

That's where the $400k+ salaries are coming from. It's very good at achieving its goal, but to what end...
This was so well put.
Relatively few in big tech are involved with advertising, or even in consumer businesses at all. Most tech workers are building b2b products. Everyone knows Google and Facebook and Apple because they use the products every day, but for example even at Microsoft the large, large majority of the workforce is working on something other than Windows or Xbox. And Amazon's profit driver is AWS, which is strictly b2b. Then you have giants like Salesforce, Oracle, SAP, Paypal, Adobe, ADP, Workday, etc who absolutely dwarf the consumer-facing portion of FAANGs in terms of headcount. Heck, even Wal-Mart has almost as many software engineers as some of the FAANGs. Legacy retail companies like Nordstrom pay pretty well, too, albeit not FAANG-well. $400k salaries are coming from all of those companies, so the above argument is incorrect. Sure, you tend to have to be a bit more senior than at FAANG to hit $400k, but there are ample non-FAANG $400k jobs out there.
Last edited by KyleAAA on Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:03 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Firemenot »

stoptothink wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:39 am
HootingSloth wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:56 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:25 pm
Firemenot wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:13 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 3:07 pm

True - and for all professions, there’s a progression of salary and title increase. You generally don’t graduate into a top job. You work your way up. Over decades.
Let me rephrase — the vast majority of lawyers will NEVER make more than 400K in their career. That said, it can be done, for sure. I’ve been doing it the last few years on total comp, but only because stock price is growing.

In general, the numbers for attorneys are highly skewed. Almost no one makes the average salary as it’s a bimodal distribution. And the bottom paying node is larger. As a percentage of total lawyers, Big Law jobs don’t represent many.
True - big law is a tiny sliver of the legal profession.
Just to put a number on it, about 10% of U.S. licensed lawyers work in an Amlaw 200 firm (about 130,000 out of 1.3 million). Most of those are in an Amlaw 100 firm (about 100,000). Because of the leverage at these firms, it's probably the case that about 3-5% of U.S. licensed lawyers are making $400k+ in biglaw. Some in house positions would have to be added to that number, but probably not all that many.
It's insane how bimodal compensation in law is, yet it is still considering such a prestigious career and a direct path to wealth. I'd guesstimate that about half the people I know who went to law school don't even practice law, a few of them never did.
I think a lot of the general public’s misperception about the typical lawyer’s compensation comes from TV and movies.
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