Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

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YeahBuddy
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by YeahBuddy »

Travel nurses and respiratory therapists. Two years into this and we thought these pay rates would dry up but I'm still seeing contracts of $6k - $10k weekly. Not bad for 2 to 4 year degrees and a couple years experience !
Light weight baby!
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by KyleAAA »

jharkin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:29 pm
Shael_AT wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:56 am The difference in pay for a M2 or M3 who is Great versus Satisfactory explains this, some Sr Directors bring in 1m+ comp, others bring in 2-10m comp and are often fast tracked to become VP's and SVP's.
Ive seen these numbers thrown out before... I havea hard time accepting this is anthing like common even at FAANG.

Take Google. They have what, 150,000 employees?

So they have to have at least 1,000+ directors.

If every director is earning a million, that is $1 billion in payroll expense just for directors.

I don't think that is mathematically possible. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Revenue per employee for Google in 2019 was $1.361 million, so it's definitely possible. Their average compensation per employee all-in is likely more like $200k. And much of that pay is in equity, not cash. To put $1 billion in payroll expense for directors in perspective, google had $161bb in revenue that year. That's less than 1% of revenue. At $200k in compensation for 150k employees, that's only $30bb annual expense, which is less than 20% of annual revenue.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/217 ... companies/
HawkeyePierce
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HawkeyePierce »

We can also simply look at Alphabet's financial disclosures, which show that in Q3 of this year they incurred just shy of $4 billion in stock-based comp expenses. That's nearly $16 billion annually in just equity comp with another $28 billion in unvested RSUs on their books.

https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/202 ... et_10Q.pdf

The same filing shows that Alphabet incurred $7.7 billion in R&D expenses in Q3, which is where much of their engineering compensation goes.
novemberrain
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by novemberrain »

Silicon Valley software engineer + specialist physician couple here. Both are well above 400k. Already above 1M household comp. If we really push it, we can get into 2M household compensation. But then our kids will suffer. So trying actively to manage hours and cut down a bit.

How I did it - get into top tech company as a software engineer. Hours and stress could be brutal at times though.
How my spouse did it - residency + fellowship in medical field.

But one observation about high paying jobs imho. The stress levels and expectations climb proportionally. No employer pays this kind of money for nothing . Some weeks, the stress is mind numbing. And there is no coasting. I mean I could coast for a couple months maybe. Beyond that, I have real risk of being let go.
rascott
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by rascott »

Lee_WSP wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:02 am

Which segues into the field that hasn't been mentioned yet. Sales. Earnings are unlimited in this field. Purely unlimited. If you are great at it, you can make half a million a year easily. Sales are the driving force behind every business and if you're good at it, you can leverage it to whatever you want.

Surprised it took this long to be mentioned. But yes I know a lot of good sales people that make huge $$. And somehow still end up playing golf multiple times a week at the club. If you are good at this, and enjoy sales...it seems to be a great career.
interwebopinion
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by interwebopinion »

Dusn wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:18 am
fortunefavored wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:39 am



The higher you go, the worse it is. I honestly think 95% of my peers were sociopaths. They could do this stuff without blinking and think nothing was wrong with it.
This sounds horrible. None of this sounds like a culture that would allow companies to succeed in the long run and yet this is the culture in the largest tech companies?
On the contrary, this is precisely what leads to outperformance in many companies, and is rewarded. The execs at some of these companies clearly know the harms that their products cause, but will execute to maximize their bonuses regardless of the consequences. This explains why high-functioning sociopaths rise to the highest levels. The best ones are the ones who can fake empathy convincingly but have the ruthless heart necessary to make the stock price ascend at all costs. Your Vanguard index funds are simply an abstraction that shields you from this reality.
Starfish
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Starfish »

jharkin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:29 pm
Shael_AT wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:56 am The difference in pay for a M2 or M3 who is Great versus Satisfactory explains this, some Sr Directors bring in 1m+ comp, others bring in 2-10m comp and are often fast tracked to become VP's and SVP's.
Ive seen these numbers thrown out before... I havea hard time accepting this is anthing like common even at FAANG.

Take Google. They have what, 150,000 employees?

So they have to have at least 1,000+ directors.

If every director is earning a million, that is $1 billion in payroll expense just for directors.

I don't think that is mathematically possible. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.
I am preetty sure that a sr. director makes 1 million at google. Actually there are individual contributors who make as much.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by fareastwarriors »

jharkin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:29 pm
Shael_AT wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:56 am The difference in pay for a M2 or M3 who is Great versus Satisfactory explains this, some Sr Directors bring in 1m+ comp, others bring in 2-10m comp and are often fast tracked to become VP's and SVP's.
Ive seen these numbers thrown out before... I havea hard time accepting this is anthing like common even at FAANG.

Take Google. They have what, 150,000 employees?

So they have to have at least 1,000+ directors.

If every director is earning a million, that is $1 billion in payroll expense just for directors.

I don't think that is mathematically possible. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Like this?

https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/s ... /Director/
https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/s ... /Director/
https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/s ... gineer/L8/
gamboolman
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by gamboolman »

Yefu.Goje,

I worked in the Oilfield for 43 year.
I retired effective 1-Feb-21 from megaoil corp.

Moved oversea's as permanent married accompanied resident expat the last 20 year of my career.
The last 10 year pay was in the 7 figures.
I planned and then executed and managed Offshore and some Onshore projects.

I only had a 2 year degree - so I know I was very fortunate to move to level of senior management and compensation that I did.

Having said that, I provided a skill set to be able to actually plan/manage a workable plan, provide accurate job scoping and definition, prepare accurate cost and schedule estimates and then supervise and manage the execution of the work vs the battalions of Power Point Commando's, Pontificators and Political Animals.

I also worked 7 days a week and spent years Offshore working my way up from a Roustabout to Roughneck to Project Management to Manager of Department.....43 years in the Oilpatch.

ms gamboolgal and I also lived in places no one goes to vacation at and the company paid a significant premium to go there.

Actionable aspects for your consideration - develop a skill and demonstrate the ability to get work done safely and efficiently. Consider moving to hardship locations where nobody else wants to go. Be tenacious and stick to the job. Take responsibility for your wins and your failures.

Treat your men/workers fairly and stand up for them. Know that you have to earn their respect and keep their respect daily. If you can do that, they will bust there asszzzzz's for you.

Have a wife/spouse that is willing to support you and move to the tough locations with you. I would never have lasted near long enough to retire if ms gamboolgal had not been living overseas with me.

There will be unsavory and stressful politics involved - to say otherwise is not realistic and naïve. In my case, the higher I moved up in the corporation - the more amoral and selfish behavior I saw - sad to say but that was my experience.

Try not to let the job consume you. I did and I regret that. I was gone for the most of my kids growing up - I will always regret that.

Also try to avoid dealing with the stresses of the job as you move up with bad habits. In my case the last 5 year of my career I took up smoking and drinking the whiskey - a poor way to deal with stress for sure - but it is what I did. I had not drank or smoked for over 55 year.....Looking back - it was a extremely stressful time the last few years before retirement and exacerbated by being isolated in a compound(s) oversea's 10 month per year and working basically 7 days a week....

Fortunately, once I retired, I lost all desire for the whiskey and the smoke. I just did not want it no more and was done and quit in a few weeks.

Hang tuff hombre and all the best.

gamboolman...

Lifes A Dance And You Learn As You Go
Last edited by gamboolman on Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
newyorker
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

With high income comes high stress. Take it slowly...
jaqenhghar
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by jaqenhghar »

gamboolman wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:31 pm Yefu.Goje,

I worked in the Oilfield for 43 year.
I retired effective 1-Feb-21 from megaoil corp.

Moved oversea's as permanent married accompanied resident expat the last 20 year of my career.
The last 10 year pay was in the 7 figures.
I planned and then executed and managed Offshore and some Onshore projects.

I only had a 2 year degree - so I know I was very fortunate to move to level of senior management and compensation that I did.

Having said that, I provided a skill set to be able to actually plan/manage a workable plan, provide accurate job scoping and definition, prepare accurate cost and schedule estimates and then supervise and manage the execution of the work vs the battalions of Power Point Commando's, Pontificators and Political Animals.

I also worked 7 days a week and spent years Offshore working my way up from a Roustabout to Roughneck to Project Management to Manager of Department.....43 years in the Oilpatch.

ms gamboolgal and I also lived in places no one goes to vacation at and the company paid a significant premium to go there.

Actionable aspects for your consideration - develop a skill and demonstrate the ability to get work done safely and efficiently. Consider moving to hardship locations where nobody else wants to go. Be tenacious and stick to the job. Take responsibility for your wins and your failures.

Treat your men/workers fairly and stand up for them. Know that you have to earn their respect and keep their respect daily. If you can do that, they will bust there asszzzzz's for you.

Have a wife/spouse that is willing to support you and move to the tough locations with you. I would never have lasted near long enough to retire if ms gamboolgal had not been living overseas with me.

There will be unsavory and stressful politics involved - to say otherwise is not realistic and naïve. In my case, the higher I moved up in the corporation - the more amoral and selfish behavior I saw - sad to say but that was my experience.

Try not to let the job consume you. I did and I regret that. I was gone for the most of my kids growing up - I will always regret that.

Also try to avoid dealing with the stresses of the job as you move up with bad habits. In my case the last 5 year of my career I took up smoking and drinking the whiskey - a poor way to deal with stress for sure - but it is what I did. I had not drank or smoked for over 55 year.....Looking back - it was a stressful time the last few years before retirement and being in a compound oversea's 10 month per year and working basically 7 days a week....

Fortunately, once I retired, I lost all desire for the whiskey and the smoke. I just did not want it no more and was done and quit in a few weeks.

Hang tuff hombre and all the best.

gamboolman...

Lifes A Dance And You Learn As You Go
To your point about "There will be unsavory and stressful politics involved - to say otherwise is not realistic and naïve. In my case, the higher I moved up in the corporation - the more amoral and selfish behavior I saw - sad to say but that was my experience."

Could you expand on that a bit more? How do you learn to recognize/combat/get better at office politics?
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Yefuy.Goje
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Yefuy.Goje »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:11 am
Yefuy.Goje wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:09 am Please share your story.

Edit to make it actionable: I moved from a very low income (<$20k) to high income (>$200k) right after a graduate degree that followed straight from undergrad and I was shocked to realize that there are so many people who make multiples of that. I thought I was making a lot of money (and it is a lot!!) but realized that I had a limited imagination because, at the time, I was seeing the people around me, as am I now. So I want to know how people do it.
OP what field are you in?
Higher Ed.
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anon_investor
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by anon_investor »

newyorker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 pm With high income comes high stress. Take it slowly...
What's the sweet spot? <$300k?
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Yefuy.Goje
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Yefuy.Goje »

Truly enjoying this thread..🙏
newyorker
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

anon_investor wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:39 pm
newyorker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 pm With high income comes high stress. Take it slowly...
What's the sweet spot? <$300k?
I think 300k is a great number.
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

newyorker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:04 pm
anon_investor wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:39 pm
newyorker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 pm With high income comes high stress. Take it slowly...
What's the sweet spot? <$300k?
I think 300k is a great number.
The best!
Plus benefits tho of course!
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Bungo »

FAANG RSUs did it for me.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by moneyflowin »

Lee_WSP wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:02 am Sales. Earnings are unlimited in this field. Purely unlimited. If you are great at it, you can make half a million a year easily. Sales are the driving force behind every business and if you're good at it, you can leverage it to whatever you want.
You're stretching the definition of "unlimited" here. $500k is affluent middle class. Being great at something and making only 500k is rather limited. When you're great at something, you should be making in the tens of millions (or billions). Think of the most successful entrepreneurs, athletes, musicians, etc.

The only thing with unlimited earning potential is starting your own business. Working for others has limited potential -- basically, the limit is what your employer is willing to pay.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HomerJ »

moneyflowin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:27 pm$400k affluent middle class.
LOL.

Hilarious definition of the word "middle".

We humans are such funny creatures. We can make ourselves believe anything.
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FlatSix
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by FlatSix »

make_a_better_world wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:31 pm I believe the main source of my time/energy/willingness to take risk is mostly because I have not yet had children. Second to that is I enjoy the things I have done on the side and know people in these fields to provide valuable advice. Feel free to PM for anything specific.
Thanks for the reply. With two young kids, family time definitely fills the schedule and saps my energy once the workday ends. Cheers!
newyorker
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

moneyflowin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:27 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:02 am Sales. Earnings are unlimited in this field. Purely unlimited. If you are great at it, you can make half a million a year easily. Sales are the driving force behind every business and if you're good at it, you can leverage it to whatever you want.
You're stretching the definition of "unlimited" here. $500k is affluent middle class. Being great at something and making only 500k is rather limited. When you're great at something, you should be making in the tens of millions (or billions). Think of the most successful entrepreneurs, athletes, musicians, etc.

The only thing with unlimited earning potential is starting your own business. Working for others has limited potential -- basically, the limit is what your employer is willing to pay.
Even business has a limit. Something thats scalable has no limits but an average professional with his own office has a limit.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by visualguy »

newyorker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:33 pm With high income comes high stress. Take it slowly...
Right. Also, these high-intensity, high-stress roles aren't a good match when life becomes more challenging. For example, when health issues or family issues arise. I prefer jobs that can survive periods during which you can't focus on work all that well, even if they pay less. Life is a marathon with potholes, not a smooth sprint.
novemberrain
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by novemberrain »

Lee_WSP wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:02 am Earnings are unlimited in this field. Purely unlimited. If you are great at it, you can make half a million a year easily.
500k is senior software engineer territory. Engineers with 5-10 years experience are making this; admittedly only at top tech companies.
Not exactly unlimited money. You can see these kinds of people roaming around in $8 T-shirts from walmart.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by visualguy »

novemberrain wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:27 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:02 am Earnings are unlimited in this field. Purely unlimited. If you are great at it, you can make half a million a year easily.
500k is senior software engineer territory. Engineers with 5-10 years experience are making this; admittedly only at top tech companies.
Not exactly unlimited money. You can see these kinds of people roaming around in $8 T-shirts from walmart.
Right, and if they're in the Bay Area, they live in rentals and can't afford to buy a house...
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NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
I save my public tech company over $50M per year. I don't get paid that or commission but I get larger RSU grants and larger salary/bonus than most people in my company.

I did this:

A. I studied general engineering, math, and finance
B. I built physical things, software, teams, and companies from scratch
C. I follow Munger's advice to learn enough to determine if the experts are full of crap
D. I sacrificed family life for 20 years to devote more time to compound learning
E. I built relatioships and maintain them
F. When the industry I was in became commoditized I moved to a contiguous industry, took a pay/income cut and learned it and worked my way up within that new industry
G. I was lucky to be born in the USA to a functional family
H. I was lucky enough to get into a technology area when it was very early nd I Could learn alot before others did and compound that knowledge

Cheez-It Guy - I'm honestly insulted to hear you say I shouldn't be worth more than $400k per year.

I have a traditional job. I manage engineers.
Last edited by NewMoneyMustBeSmart on Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by GatorMD »

Emergency Medicine Physician independent contractor taxed as an S-Corp 10 yrs in with just the right balance of clinical work, teaching and administration. I got lucky and landed my first job in a good geographic location at an institution with tremendous growth and leadership opportunities. I make above the OPs "high earner" income designation and well above the average Emergency Physician income. I consider myself very lucky and I'm hoping my luck will last another 10 years before I throw in the towel.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HomerJ »

NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:42 pm I save my public tech company over $50M per year.

I have a traditional job. I manage engineers.
I'm afraid I doubt it.

Once you move into management, you start doing funny math, that I've seen.
Last edited by HomerJ on Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:47 pm
NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:42 pm I save my public tech company over $50M per year.

I have a traditional job. I manage engineers.
I'm afraid I doubt it.
All 3?
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HomerJ
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HomerJ »

NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:48 pm
HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:47 pm
NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:42 pm I save my public tech company over $50M per year.

I have a traditional job. I manage engineers.
I'm afraid I doubt it.
All 3?
Just #1

If you quit tomorrow, they wouldn't start spending $50 million extra every year.
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NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:47 pm
NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:42 pm I save my public tech company over $50M per year.
Once you move into management, you start doing funny math, that I've seen.
That's fair. I've seen that alot too.

We used to do something one way. I showed how we could do it differently and worked to win hearts and minds of folks to change it and saved $15M total. So we moved that from method A to method B.

Next year we moved another set of things from a method X to method Y and that saved $5M/month in 9 months with a run rate of $60M/year.

The next year we moved a larger set of things from method X to method Y with different problems to solve and that saved $15M/mo or $180M/year.

You're right the numbers are hand wavy. I can't share the internal numbers :)
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:49 pm If you quit tomorrow, they wouldn't start spending $50 million extra every year.
That's fair. But that's not really what I said. Because of the patents and trade secrets I created and the process modification I led, we saved the money, and they will save it if I quit/get fired/die.

But also, someone else probably would have done this eventually, just not as well. Woulda coulda shoulda :)

But I did it and proposed it and made it happen.
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HomerJ
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HomerJ »

Well heck, I was instrumental in convincing a large Fortune 1000 company to go with VMware back in the mid 2000s.

Wonder how much I saved them in capital costs. I guess I should put $50 million on my resume too.

I got two movie tickets on my birthday that year as a gift from the company, I think. But then again, so did everyone else...
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:42 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
I save my public tech company over $50M per year. I don't get paid that or commission but I get larger RSU grants and larger salary/bonus than most people in my company.

I did this:

A. I studied general engineering, math, and finance
B. I built physical things, software, teams, and companies from scratch
C. I follow Munger's advice to learn enough to determine if the experts are full of crap
D. I sacrificed family life for 20 years to devote more time to compound learning
E. I built relatioships and maintain them
F. When the industry I was in became commoditized I moved to a contiguous industry, took a pay/income cut and learned it and worked my way up within that new industry
G. I was lucky to be born in the USA to a functional family
H. I was lucky enough to get into a technology area when it was very early nd I Could learn alot before others did and compound that knowledge

Cheez-It Guy - I'm honestly insulted to hear you say I shouldn't be worth more than $400k per year.

I have a traditional job. I manage engineers.
I was waiting for someone to truly take umbrage. Try not to be insulted by anonymous and obviously overly generalized comments on a message board.

I have two serious questions in reply.

1. Can you provide any detail about what you as an individual do (that is, which could not be shared with or claimed by others) that saves your company $50 million annually that would otherwise be spent, and that requires a specialized skillset to do?
(I see you already mostly addressed that in your interchange with HomerJ.)

2. With the amount of sacrifice you detail and the compensation you make, why are you still working?

Don't be insulted. I'm not suggesting employees are not valuable, but just that compensation is skewed in an societally unhealthy manner.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by muffins14 »

visualguy wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:33 pm
novemberrain wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:27 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:02 am Earnings are unlimited in this field. Purely unlimited. If you are great at it, you can make half a million a year easily.
500k is senior software engineer territory. Engineers with 5-10 years experience are making this; admittedly only at top tech companies.
Not exactly unlimited money. You can see these kinds of people roaming around in $8 T-shirts from walmart.
Right, and if they're in the Bay Area, they live in rentals and can't afford to buy a house...

They will be able to buy just fine when they want to. Sometimes renting is a good decision, like when you may move soon, or when you’re young as want to save more. Many of the 500k engineers are like 30-35 and don’t want to burn cash on a down payment when apartment life is still good
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Young Boglehead
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Young Boglehead »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pm
moneyflowin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:27 pm$400k affluent middle class.
LOL.

Hilarious definition of the word "middle".

We humans are such funny creatures. We can make ourselves believe anything.
Do you think 400k is upper class or upper middle class?
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22twain
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by 22twain »

$400K is about the 98th percentile of household income in the US in 2021, according to

https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-ho ... rcentiles/

Whether it "feels" like upper class or "merely" upper middle class, surely depends on location, location, location...
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Wannaretireearly
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

novemberrain wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:01 pm Silicon Valley software engineer + specialist physician couple here. Both are well above 400k. Already above 1M household comp. If we really push it, we can get into 2M household compensation. But then our kids will suffer. So trying actively to manage hours and cut down a bit.

How I did it - get into top tech company as a software engineer. Hours and stress could be brutal at times though.
How my spouse did it - residency + fellowship in medical field.

But one observation about high paying jobs imho. The stress levels and expectations climb proportionally. No employer pays this kind of money for nothing . Some weeks, the stress is mind numbing. And there is no coasting. I mean I could coast for a couple months maybe. Beyond that, I have real risk of being let go.
Great observation. I sometimes think the stress/expectations grow faster than the income.
I’m still trying to figure out how getting to Director level in the US provides a likely 20% bump in TC, yet the same bump in Asia bumps TC by 50%. At that level, you wear multiple hats, at the whim of various VPs and SVPs, constant firefighting, defending blah blah.
I dream sometimes I’ll get promoted, then get the exit package I want in a few years. Avoid the stress and get the higher exit rewards ;) all a Tetris game.
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by HomerJ »

Young Boglehead wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:54 pm
HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pm
moneyflowin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:27 pm$400k affluent middle class.
LOL.

Hilarious definition of the word "middle".

We humans are such funny creatures. We can make ourselves believe anything.
Do you think 400k is upper class or upper middle class?
When you are top 2% in the richest country on earth, you are upper class by income.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by visualguy »

22twain wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:17 am $400K is about the 98th percentile of household income in the US in 2021, according to

https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-ho ... rcentiles/

Whether it "feels" like upper class or "merely" upper middle class, surely depends on location, location, location...
Right. These stats aren't very useful when they are country-wide, world-wide, etc. You need to look at the stats for your location. Also, income isn't sufficient. You need to look at wealth to determine economic class. For example $400K may be top 2% in income, but someone with $40M in assets and a $400K income is in a very different situation than someone with $2M in assets and a $400K income.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Blue456 »

cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by anon_investor »

newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:42 pm C. I follow Munger's advice to learn enough to determine if the experts are full of crap
D. I sacrificed family life for 20 years to devote more time to compound learning
My son and I just had a discussion about this, especially compound learning. Everyone talks about compounding in finance here, but the really life-changing move is to compound skills and knowledge. It doesn’t take that much; 15% compounded will have you be the star and compensated for it.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by stoptothink »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pm
moneyflowin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:27 pm$400k affluent middle class.
LOL.

Hilarious definition of the word "middle".

We humans are such funny creatures. We can make ourselves believe anything.
Recheck their post, moneyflowin changed it to $500k. This board is being overrun by individuals in the tech industry that are completely out of touch with the reality of the rest of the nation. Our state flagship U's policy institute says "middle-class" ends at a HHI of $150,700/yr. With a measly HHI ~$250k, I should tell my neighbors (who almost all have HHI less than half ours) that we're not even halfway to "affluent middle class" and see their reaction :shock: .
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by jharkin »

stoptothink wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:55 am
Recheck their post, moneyflowin changed it to $500k. This board is being overrun by individuals in the tech industry that are completely out of touch with the reality of the rest of the nation. Our state flagship U's policy institute says "middle-class" ends at a HHI of $150,700/yr. With a measly HHI ~$250k, I should tell my neighbors (who almost all have HHI less than half ours) that we're not even halfway to "affluent middle class" and see their reaction :shock: .
And they are all kids in their 20s and early 30s that don't know what it was like to work in tech in the 90s and early 2000s (much less the 80s) and have no clue what a bubble its turning into.

I got schooled above on Google Director salaries. I'll admit I was wrong and looks like that 7 figure data is correct, but it also reinforces in my mind that the FANNGs+tech unicorns are themselves a bubble from old guard tech (Dell, HP, IBM, and all the midsize <5BB older companies), which in turn are a bubble form everybody else.

Another telling comment was somebody calling a 50B company a "midcap" when you have companies with market caps as small as $13BB in the S&P and $2B in the Russell.

I probably sound like a broken record saying that we are staring to loose sight of Jack's concept of "enough" and it sure does start to sound like a lot of members here are obsessed with accumulating as much wealth as they can with no concern for all the bad things wealth concentration is doing to society.


I will give it up now and bow out.........
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by 22twain »

visualguy wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:07 am
22twain wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:17 am $400K is about the 98th percentile of household income in the US in 2021, according to

https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-ho ... rcentiles/

Whether it "feels" like upper class or "merely" upper middle class, surely depends on location, location, location...
Right. These stats aren't very useful when they are country-wide, world-wide, etc. You need to look at the stats for your location. Also, income isn't sufficient. You need to look at wealth to determine economic class.
Now that I think of it, "middle class" (as opposed to "middle income") also includes intangible factors like self-perception, public presentation, family history, social status, occupation, general social history, etc. On a forum like this, I think it's best to avoid terms like "xxx class" and stick to "xxx income" or "xxx net worth" which at least lends itself to statistical definition, even if we might not agree on the exact cutoff points.

Most Americans Consider Themselves Middle-Class. But Are They? (RAND Corporation blog)

[added] Returning to "middle income", I found this interesting interactive graphic from the Census Bureau:

2014-2018 Median Household Income in the United States by County

Hover over a county and you get a popup with the median income and a bar-chart of the distribution up to "$200K or more". San Mateo and Santa Clara Counties in CA have medians about $115K, with more than 25% above $200K.
Last edited by 22twain on Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by Dontsell1 »

Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
Not true. It will still worth it to specialize most of the time.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newinvestor54 »

Starfish wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:51 pm
jharkin wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:29 pm
Shael_AT wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:56 am The difference in pay for a M2 or M3 who is Great versus Satisfactory explains this, some Sr Directors bring in 1m+ comp, others bring in 2-10m comp and are often fast tracked to become VP's and SVP's.
Ive seen these numbers thrown out before... I havea hard time accepting this is anthing like common even at FAANG.

Take Google. They have what, 150,000 employees?

So they have to have at least 1,000+ directors.

If every director is earning a million, that is $1 billion in payroll expense just for directors.

I don't think that is mathematically possible. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.
I am preetty sure that a sr. director makes 1 million at google. Actually there are individual contributors who make as much.
Yep I'm an IC one step below director level and will make $930k this year (RSUs skyrocketed). I work 40 hours per week with little stress in a job I find fascinating.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by diabelli »

Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
I'll also chime in to say that this isn't my experience.
Academia these numbers are somewhat accurate.
A thriving private group gets partners 500k-1mil in medical subspecialties and likely 700k-1.2mil in surgical specialties. This is true even in the northeast. Of course there are some groups which aren't doing so well, or which pull along employees paying them 300-400k for years before letting them into the bigger money.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?

Post by newyorker »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:08 am
newyorker wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:04 am
Blue456 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:35 am
cncm wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:37 am medicine - those are pretty standard careers where you’ll easily make that much within a few years
Most doctors don't make $400,000. These days specialists make between $200,000 to $300,000 a year. Maybe neurosurgery or plastics will get you at $400,000. Physicians who own their own practices have seen for decades decreased pay from insurance companies. It is simply not financially worth it these days to specialize.
No way. Ns guys make 1 mil straight out of school.
Is that location dependent?
I would say 1 mil is the bare minimum. So yes rural, much more.
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