Money can't buy happiness, but money can buy a jet ski, and I've never seen anyone unhappy while driving a jetski.AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:47 am “Anyone who believes that having a lot of money buys happiness has never had a lot of money.”
—- David Geffen
Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
To quote the immortal Forrest Gump:
"Lieutenant Dan got me invested in some kind of fruit company. So then I got a call from him, saying we don't have to worry about money no more. And I said, that's good! One less thing."
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
- AnnetteLouisan
- Posts: 7261
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:16 pm
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
You all are the best! Always getting me smiling! Hats off to you!
For an old fashioned smile, check out the 1930s song “I’d tip my hat to you, but I haven’t got a hat.”
For an old fashioned smile, check out the 1930s song “I’d tip my hat to you, but I haven’t got a hat.”
- Petrocelli
- Posts: 2966
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- Location: Fenway Park, between 2nd and 3rd base
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I am a partner in a 70+ lawyer firm in Los Angeles.anon_investor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:18 amExperience lawyers in biglaw in a big market (e.g. NYC) all will make that much.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
But the path to that is miserable...
I make over $400,000. My clients think I am worth it.
The path to this point has actually been fun.
Petrocelli (not the real Rico, but just a fan)
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I am curious how long it took you to get to $400k at that sized firm?Petrocelli wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:36 pmI am a partner in a 70+ lawyer firm in Los Angeles.anon_investor wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:18 amExperience lawyers in biglaw in a big market (e.g. NYC) all will make that much.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:16 am Very hard to believe any one person in a traditional job is worth this kind of direct compensation. Sure, it happens, but it probably shouldn't.
But the path to that is miserable...
I make over $400,000. My clients think I am worth it.
The path to this point has actually been fun.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
The going rate for Sr Directors of Finance / Strategy / Business Operations is $450-500k TC right now in SaaS tech. Half will be base and the other half bonus + RSUs. Only high performers will make it to that level, generally after:
(1) a top [M7] MBA +
(2) a few years at a top consulting firm +
(3) a few years at the tech company proving yourself to the executives
At Sr Director, you're generally managing a team of 10-20 and formulating and executing company strategy. A few responses to the conversation above:
"Yes-man" culture
Relatively few problems that come to my level have obvious black-and-white solutions. If they did they would have been solved already by my managers. Instead the potential solutions all come with limited supporting data and varying tradeoffs. My role is to use judgment to advocate for the best path forward given what we know and what our organization can handle, which oftentimes is not the academically "right" path. Finally, my job is to advocate for a position, but once the decision is made (oftentimes by my bosses) then my job is to execute whatever the decision is. That doesn't make me a yes-man. "Disagree and commit" and "strong opinions, weakly held" are how we make progress.
Stress & work life balance
There are two aspects to this at my level. First, as an executive, do you feel respected by your peers and superiors, sought out for your expertise - when you talk, do people listen? Or do you feel like your self-worth is on trial every time you go into a meeting? This "psychological safety" is absolutely critical to your longevity in your role. I've worked in both kinds of places, the difference is night and day. As far as work-life balance, I only work 40 hours a week. This is critically dependent upon the quality of your team - can you trust them to execute without hand holding? Not coincidentally, my most important job is hiring and retaining talent; everything else is secondary.
(1) a top [M7] MBA +
(2) a few years at a top consulting firm +
(3) a few years at the tech company proving yourself to the executives
At Sr Director, you're generally managing a team of 10-20 and formulating and executing company strategy. A few responses to the conversation above:
"Yes-man" culture
Relatively few problems that come to my level have obvious black-and-white solutions. If they did they would have been solved already by my managers. Instead the potential solutions all come with limited supporting data and varying tradeoffs. My role is to use judgment to advocate for the best path forward given what we know and what our organization can handle, which oftentimes is not the academically "right" path. Finally, my job is to advocate for a position, but once the decision is made (oftentimes by my bosses) then my job is to execute whatever the decision is. That doesn't make me a yes-man. "Disagree and commit" and "strong opinions, weakly held" are how we make progress.
Stress & work life balance
There are two aspects to this at my level. First, as an executive, do you feel respected by your peers and superiors, sought out for your expertise - when you talk, do people listen? Or do you feel like your self-worth is on trial every time you go into a meeting? This "psychological safety" is absolutely critical to your longevity in your role. I've worked in both kinds of places, the difference is night and day. As far as work-life balance, I only work 40 hours a week. This is critically dependent upon the quality of your team - can you trust them to execute without hand holding? Not coincidentally, my most important job is hiring and retaining talent; everything else is secondary.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Dang, I can ride it for like 15-20 min. After that it's a torture + headacheHomerJ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:34 pmMoney can't buy happiness, but money can buy a jet ski, and I've never seen anyone unhappy while driving a jetski.AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:47 am “Anyone who believes that having a lot of money buys happiness has never had a lot of money.”
—- David Geffen
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Money doesn't buy happiness but neither does poverty. If I'm gonna be unhappy either way, I might as well do it with lots of moneyHomerJ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:34 pmMoney can't buy happiness, but money can buy a jet ski, and I've never seen anyone unhappy while driving a jetski.AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:47 am “Anyone who believes that having a lot of money buys happiness has never had a lot of money.”
—- David Geffen
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Thanks. I am working on old-school tech that has a low pay range. Thinking about ditching current tech and learning up on cloud technologies but will have to bear with a significant pay cut for the initial years when I get the real-world experience.HawkeyePierce wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:23 pmBig data/streaming data API platform at a mid-size SV tech company. Kafka, Beam, Dataflow, AWS/GCP, etc.RL1013 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:18 pmCould you please elaborate on which technology you work in? I am in tech for the past 18 years and max I got so far is 120+ in a medium cost of living city.HawkeyePierce wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:23 am This year I'll gross about $430k. I'm a software engineer at a high-profile tech company working from their Colorado satellite office.
Work-life balance is terrific and the job isn't stressful. 30-35 hours a week, lots of PTO, work is strictly 10-5.
It's really not about specific technologies. My skills are around building reliable systems that can operate at massive scale.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I disagree, quitting a 7 figure job is more difficult than you think, as most people, including myself, always want more money. So just like the person making less I can’t leave my job easily.sents13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 amThat's because you have already made 7 figure income and prob have 8 figure assets. You're not in a position to be "unhappy" by the reasons that plague most normal people. You can always quit your job to do something "more fulfilling".masonstone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:31 pm I make a 7 figure income and to be honest more money doesn’t bring you more happiness. In fact the only thing I can think of that an ultra-high net worth person can do that someone making 200K can’t is to have a private jet. Even then a private jet is less safe than commercial travel. Just look at what happened to Kobe.
What brings you satisfaction isn’t more money but a purpose in what you’re doing. I feel like I lack that so even despite my high earnings I don’t have much job satisfaction.
If you did not went down this path, you would be even more unhappy because you do not have the money to lead a fulfilling life.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Try it. You'll be surprised by how easy it is. And then you'll wish you did it sooner.masonstone wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:14 pmI disagree, quitting a 7 figure job is more difficult than you think, as most people, including myself, always want more money. So just like the person making less I can’t leave my job easily.sents13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 amThat's because you have already made 7 figure income and prob have 8 figure assets. You're not in a position to be "unhappy" by the reasons that plague most normal people. You can always quit your job to do something "more fulfilling".masonstone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:31 pm I make a 7 figure income and to be honest more money doesn’t bring you more happiness. In fact the only thing I can think of that an ultra-high net worth person can do that someone making 200K can’t is to have a private jet. Even then a private jet is less safe than commercial travel. Just look at what happened to Kobe.
What brings you satisfaction isn’t more money but a purpose in what you’re doing. I feel like I lack that so even despite my high earnings I don’t have much job satisfaction.
If you did not went down this path, you would be even more unhappy because you do not have the money to lead a fulfilling life.
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Maybe you should read:masonstone wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:14 pmI disagree, quitting a 7 figure job is more difficult than you think, as most people, including myself, always want more money. So just like the person making less I can’t leave my job easily.sents13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 amThat's because you have already made 7 figure income and prob have 8 figure assets. You're not in a position to be "unhappy" by the reasons that plague most normal people. You can always quit your job to do something "more fulfilling".masonstone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:31 pm I make a 7 figure income and to be honest more money doesn’t bring you more happiness. In fact the only thing I can think of that an ultra-high net worth person can do that someone making 200K can’t is to have a private jet. Even then a private jet is less safe than commercial travel. Just look at what happened to Kobe.
What brings you satisfaction isn’t more money but a purpose in what you’re doing. I feel like I lack that so even despite my high earnings I don’t have much job satisfaction.
If you did not went down this path, you would be even more unhappy because you do not have the money to lead a fulfilling life.
Enough: True Measures of Money, Business, and Life
by John C. Bogle
https://www.amazon.com/Enough-True-Meas ... 0470524235
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Maybe, bluebolt, but maybe not. I wouldn't be so sure of yourself.bluebolt wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:22 pmTry it. You'll be surprised by how easy it is. And then you'll wish you did it sooner.masonstone wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:14 pmI disagree, quitting a 7 figure job is more difficult than you think, as most people, including myself, always want more money. So just like the person making less I can’t leave my job easily.sents13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 amThat's because you have already made 7 figure income and prob have 8 figure assets. You're not in a position to be "unhappy" by the reasons that plague most normal people. You can always quit your job to do something "more fulfilling".masonstone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:31 pm I make a 7 figure income and to be honest more money doesn’t bring you more happiness. In fact the only thing I can think of that an ultra-high net worth person can do that someone making 200K can’t is to have a private jet. Even then a private jet is less safe than commercial travel. Just look at what happened to Kobe.
What brings you satisfaction isn’t more money but a purpose in what you’re doing. I feel like I lack that so even despite my high earnings I don’t have much job satisfaction.
If you did not went down this path, you would be even more unhappy because you do not have the money to lead a fulfilling life.
50% VTSAX | 25% VTIAX | 25% VBTLX (retirement), 25% VTEAX (taxable)
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Obviously, it depends on the situation. But I am sure about my own experience.mikejuss wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:40 pmMaybe, bluebolt, but maybe not. I wouldn't be so sure of yourself.bluebolt wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:22 pmTry it. You'll be surprised by how easy it is. And then you'll wish you did it sooner.masonstone wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:14 pmI disagree, quitting a 7 figure job is more difficult than you think, as most people, including myself, always want more money. So just like the person making less I can’t leave my job easily.sents13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 amThat's because you have already made 7 figure income and prob have 8 figure assets. You're not in a position to be "unhappy" by the reasons that plague most normal people. You can always quit your job to do something "more fulfilling".masonstone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:31 pm I make a 7 figure income and to be honest more money doesn’t bring you more happiness. In fact the only thing I can think of that an ultra-high net worth person can do that someone making 200K can’t is to have a private jet. Even then a private jet is less safe than commercial travel. Just look at what happened to Kobe.
What brings you satisfaction isn’t more money but a purpose in what you’re doing. I feel like I lack that so even despite my high earnings I don’t have much job satisfaction.
If you did not went down this path, you would be even more unhappy because you do not have the money to lead a fulfilling life.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
So you quit a job with a yearly 7-figure salary and felt liberated? Good for you. For others, there may be factors that make such a move more of a mixed blessing.bluebolt wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:42 pmObviously, it depends on the situation. But I am sure about my own experience.mikejuss wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:40 pmMaybe, bluebolt, but maybe not. I wouldn't be so sure of yourself.bluebolt wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:22 pmTry it. You'll be surprised by how easy it is. And then you'll wish you did it sooner.masonstone wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:14 pmI disagree, quitting a 7 figure job is more difficult than you think, as most people, including myself, always want more money. So just like the person making less I can’t leave my job easily.sents13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 am
That's because you have already made 7 figure income and prob have 8 figure assets. You're not in a position to be "unhappy" by the reasons that plague most normal people. You can always quit your job to do something "more fulfilling".
If you did not went down this path, you would be even more unhappy because you do not have the money to lead a fulfilling life.
50% VTSAX | 25% VTIAX | 25% VBTLX (retirement), 25% VTEAX (taxable)
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Small business owner but also the only employee. Computer repair/IT consultant. $600k take home last year. Highest yet. Beating that this year.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Money does buy happiness, at least to a point. It’s not about luxury toys or large homes or vacations. There are problems others would find significant that go away if you can stroke a big check. And it buys time—lawn service, pool service, maid service. My rich friends’ full time nannies make me more jealous than their Range Rovers.moneyflowin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 6:45 pmMoney doesn't buy happiness but neither does poverty. If I'm gonna be unhappy either way, I might as well do it with lots of moneyHomerJ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:34 pmMoney can't buy happiness, but money can buy a jet ski, and I've never seen anyone unhappy while driving a jetski.AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:47 am “Anyone who believes that having a lot of money buys happiness has never had a lot of money.”
—- David Geffen
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
My point was not that it's not a difficult decision. My point is that afterwards, in hindsight, it may not be as hard as it seemed. And, it may open up new opportunities that you had not considered. Obviously, won't work for everyone in this situation.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
What factors?
Almost certainly more healthy to get out of that lifestyle before you become accustomed to it.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Give me a break. Maybe you grew up in poverty and are in year 1 of receiving a 7-figure salary. Should you quit immediately? Use your imagination. This is not so simple, and might not have anything to do with lifestyle inflation.
50% VTSAX | 25% VTIAX | 25% VBTLX (retirement), 25% VTEAX (taxable)
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Small business owner is the way to go. You can make this kind of money and actually enjoy your life unlike many corporate jobs in the salary range. You will work harder than you ever have but you are working directly for yourself and will be directly compensated for that effort.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I am using my imagination, and almost anyone who feels trapped in a 7-figure salary is has inflated their lifestyle way too far.mikejuss wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:34 pmGive me a break. Maybe you grew up in poverty and are in year 1 of receiving a 7-figure salary. Should you quit immediately? Use your imagination. This is not so simple, and might not have anything to do with lifestyle inflation.
It's as simple as that. A 7-figure salary should be liberating. If you feel you can't give it up, you messed up.
(unless it is indeed your very first year of a 7-figure salary, and it wasn't preceded by 5-10 years of $500,000-$900,000 salaries - maybe you're an actor who just hit it big, or a doctor out of residency with a lucrative specialty).
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Quitting may be wise for some but not for others. Context is nearly everything. That's my only point here.HomerJ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:43 pmI am using my imagination, and almost anyone who feels trapped in a 7-figure salary is has inflated their lifestyle way too far.mikejuss wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:34 pmGive me a break. Maybe you grew up in poverty and are in year 1 of receiving a 7-figure salary. Should you quit immediately? Use your imagination. This is not so simple, and might not have anything to do with lifestyle inflation.
It's as simple as that. A 7-figure salary should be liberating. If you feel you can't give it up, you messed up.
(unless it is indeed your very first year of a 7-figure salary, and it wasn't preceded by 5-10 years of $500,000-$900,000 salaries - maybe you're an actor who just hit it big, or a doctor out of residency with a lucrative specialty).
50% VTSAX | 25% VTIAX | 25% VBTLX (retirement), 25% VTEAX (taxable)
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Yes context matters, if you went from $100,000 to $1 million in one year, that's an important detail.mikejuss wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:51 pmQuitting may be wise for some but not for others. Context is nearly everything. That's my only point here.HomerJ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:43 pmI am using my imagination, and almost anyone who feels trapped in a 7-figure salary is has inflated their lifestyle way too far.mikejuss wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:34 pmGive me a break. Maybe you grew up in poverty and are in year 1 of receiving a 7-figure salary. Should you quit immediately? Use your imagination. This is not so simple, and might not have anything to do with lifestyle inflation.
It's as simple as that. A 7-figure salary should be liberating. If you feel you can't give it up, you messed up.
(unless it is indeed your very first year of a 7-figure salary, and it wasn't preceded by 5-10 years of $500,000-$900,000 salaries - maybe you're an actor who just hit it big, or a doctor out of residency with a lucrative specialty).
But for most people, moving up to 7 figures should be liberating, not inhibiting. You're doing it wrong if you feel trapped.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
True. Also, the bar on quitting jobs and careers should be high. This is the case with a 7-figure salary and also with lower compensation. A cavalier attitude toward such major changes in life makes no sense - it's serious stuff with serious repercussions. It's the right move in some cases, but those are unusual cases. You don't just do it due to low job satisfaction. Being out of a job and income doesn't exactly bring satisfaction either.mikejuss wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:51 pmQuitting may be wise for some but not for others. Context is nearly everything. That's my only point here.HomerJ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:43 pmI am using my imagination, and almost anyone who feels trapped in a 7-figure salary is has inflated their lifestyle way too far.mikejuss wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:34 pmGive me a break. Maybe you grew up in poverty and are in year 1 of receiving a 7-figure salary. Should you quit immediately? Use your imagination. This is not so simple, and might not have anything to do with lifestyle inflation.
It's as simple as that. A 7-figure salary should be liberating. If you feel you can't give it up, you messed up.
(unless it is indeed your very first year of a 7-figure salary, and it wasn't preceded by 5-10 years of $500,000-$900,000 salaries - maybe you're an actor who just hit it big, or a doctor out of residency with a lucrative specialty).
Finding another job that's more satisfying or less stressful may make sense even if the pay is lower. It's typically possible to wait with the quitting until such a new position is found. I've done this type of thing in my career, but I never quit without setting up the next gig first.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
So, it should go without saying, but "work hard" is the first thing I'll say. You should know going in that busy season is going to be a ton of hours, and you should be OK with that. Corollary to this is that you should (almost) never say "no" to a request from someone in management.Ni0ck wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:27 pmHi Maksdad, I'm starting at Big 4 Accounting in January. First Year Associate. You mentioned that you succeed by doing excellent work. Help me out with this one. What is something a new associate does that impresses you? What does "excellent" work look like?MAKsdad wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:19 am Accounting major
Big 4 audit firm right out of college (making $37k)
Promoted up through Sr. Mgr. (total comp at that point was just under $200 w/ bonus)
Left for a VP of Internal Audit position at a F500 (total comp including base, bonus & equity is targeted around $500k annually)
Thank you for your time. Happy retirement
Communication skills are key. There are a lot of smart people who can't effectively demonstrate their abilities because they can't communicate effectively either verbally or in writing. Be good at this. Sounding like you know what you're talking about when your senior or manager is reviewing your work is almost as important as actually knowing what you're talking about. Make sure your documentation is free of spelling/grammar errors. You wouldn't believe how many people don't spell check and come across looking stupid.
Think about why you're doing testing. Many people can run down a checklist of procedures and get the work done. But if you actually understand why you're doing something you'll be better able to handle curveballs and better able to explain what's happening to your boss.
Figure out who the "rockstar" managers and senior are in your office and figure out how to work with them. They're the ones on the best clients and working for the most influential partners. I lucked out in this regard as it happened to me by accident. When it comes time to do rankings every year, you want the important managers in your corner fighting for you. Also, if your seniors suck, your life is going to be more miserable than it needs to be.
PM me if you want...happy to talk more without cluttering up this thread.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Who said to have a cavalier attitude about it? The liberating thing about living below your means and saving/investing a significant portion of your salary is that the bar to quit a job doesn't have to be high. And, low job satisfaction is the primary reason I would consider leaving a job.visualguy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:19 pm True. Also, the bar on quitting jobs and careers should be high. This is the case with a 7-figure salary and also with lower compensation. A cavalier attitude toward such major changes in life makes no sense - it's serious stuff with serious repercussions. It's the right move in some cases, but those are unusual cases. You don't just do it due to low job satisfaction. Being out of a job and income doesn't exactly bring satisfaction either.
Finding another job that's more satisfying or less stressful may make sense even if the pay is lower. It's typically possible to wait with the quitting until such a new position is found. I've done this type of thing in my career, but I never quit without setting up the next gig first.
I'm not saying it's for everyone (nor did I ever say that), but I related how a decision like this can seem a lot scarier than it turns out to be. This is especially true if you LBYM and have a healthy emergency fund. Even more true the closer you get to FI.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I'm not convinced that having a private jet is the only thing a high net-worth person can do that a person making $200k can't do, but I guess it depends on how you define a thing---likely both can buy "a house," but does that make them meaningfully comparable?masonstone wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:14 pmI disagree, quitting a 7 figure job is more difficult than you think, as most people, including myself, always want more money. So just like the person making less I can’t leave my job easily.sents13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 amThat's because you have already made 7 figure income and prob have 8 figure assets. You're not in a position to be "unhappy" by the reasons that plague most normal people. You can always quit your job to do something "more fulfilling".masonstone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:31 pm I make a 7 figure income and to be honest more money doesn’t bring you more happiness. In fact the only thing I can think of that an ultra-high net worth person can do that someone making 200K can’t is to have a private jet. Even then a private jet is less safe than commercial travel. Just look at what happened to Kobe.
What brings you satisfaction isn’t more money but a purpose in what you’re doing. I feel like I lack that so even despite my high earnings I don’t have much job satisfaction.
If you did not went down this path, you would be even more unhappy because you do not have the money to lead a fulfilling life.
But I'm with masonstone on the difficulty of quitting a seven figure job, at least as a general proposition. While I do think that, for any given person, wealth beyond some level isn't likely to lead to more happiness, I also think that cross-sectional studies that can only compare the subjective and incomparable are fundamentally misinterpreted by those who claim that level arises at some modest amount.
Everyone's situation is different, of course, so I don't expect what matters in my decisions to make sense for others. I hope to retire early (and very early, among my peers), but I don't tell myself it will be easy to walk away from a job that pays as much in a year as my single mom made in her whole career.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
This guy FAANG's! Or isn't it MAANG now? 100% the truth. Those that disagree are not yet exposed to how the sausage is really madefortunefavored wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:39 am
I could rant about it for days. Megacorp tech management is truly soul destroying. The issue, fundamentally, is money. It is a pyramid - the higher up you go, the bigger the compensation stakes.. and the fewer people who can claim those stakes. To be clear, the real evil starts once you get beyond first line manager.. managers generally are shielded from the worst of it.
You must toe the company line 1000%, even if it is terrible and stupid. Then you must constantly be battling politically to fight off all those other people who want to claw up that compensation ladder. Make yourself look good, make other people look bad (although NO ONE would ever admit that was what they were effectively doing.) Or else you're put on the "no future" list and/or pushed out.
Alliances, backstabbing.. it's non-stop. Being forced to spin bad decisions to staff and sell them on it, justifying insane changes in compensation structures, selling terrible company strategic decisions or tactics, creating doomed plans but having no choice but to pretend they were great, deciding who gets laid off for no good reason due to executive management arbitrary targets, stealth performance rankings of individuals that will doom their careers, diversity quotas without daring to say they were diversity quotas.. just on and on.
The higher you go, the worse it is. I honestly think 95% of my peers were sociopaths. They could do this stuff without blinking and think nothing was wrong with it.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
5 years post PhD. Started making 160k and slowly increased to 300k. Recently moved onto a pre-ipo company where if all goes OK, TC should be in the 700k-1.5M range. Currently estimated at 650k ish. HHI is 900k (400k cash).
Will pull rip cord at 6M LNW -> 180k/yr FIRE (3% SWR)
Will pull rip cord at 6M LNW -> 180k/yr FIRE (3% SWR)
Last edited by Bryan995 on Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
You need 400k/year?Bryan995 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:41 am 5 years post PhD. Started making 160k and slowly increased to 300k. Recently moved onto a pre-ipo company where if all goes OK, TC should be in the 700k-1.5M range. Currently estimated at 650k ish. HHI is 900k (400k cash).
Will pull rip cord at 6M LNW -> 400k/yr FIRE.
Also 400k out of 6 million is 6.66% withdrawal rate... That's pretty high, and gives you a decent chance of burning through all those savings. I mean, it's less than 16 years of withdrawals.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I agree. A low paying job can be quite stressful. But citing an individual example is different from recognizing a general trend. I would think that very low stress (challenging) jobs would generally pay less than their more stressful or challenging counterparts.zaboomafoozarg wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:15 amI haven't found stress to be highly correlated to pay. My most stressful job paid $50k a year for 80 hours a week of work, and I felt like it was driving me to the brink of insanity.bltn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:15 am Very interesting thread regarding the comments about several highly paid fields of work.
Burn out is an interesting concept. Caused by excessive stress? And stress. Caused by excessive challenge? And without challenge, is there boredom, causing another kind of stress? And eventually burnout? Maybe stress/burnout is due in some part to a personal perspective.
Without challenge requiring personal aptitude for the job and a willingness to work hard, why would compensation be high?
Perhaps an important part of maintaining a long successful career is finding a job that involves an acceptable amount of stress.
My most stressful job was also my lowest paid one. After finishing school, I worked for 6 years in a job that paid the equivalent of 40-50 thousand a year in today s dollars. Eighty to ninety hours of work a week and always the possibility of being fired, as more people were hired than retained. I could deal with that for a few years because I was so young and I was gaining valuable on job training.
I then joined a small company and shortly became my own boss. A different kind of stress since all decisions, good and bad, and the resulting welfare of the company were my responsibility. Having control and trying to make the right choices were a challenge, but the stress was much more tolerable than that from my first employment.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Whoops you are right. Planning on a 3% SWR. 6M LNW -> 180k/fire. 180k should be plenty! And at 3% SWR it sets a nice income floor, with the ability to further enjoy the good years and tighten up through the bad.HomerJ wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:09 pmYou need 400k/year?Bryan995 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:41 am 5 years post PhD. Started making 160k and slowly increased to 300k. Recently moved onto a pre-ipo company where if all goes OK, TC should be in the 700k-1.5M range. Currently estimated at 650k ish. HHI is 900k (400k cash).
Will pull rip cord at 6M LNW -> 400k/yr FIRE.
Also 400k out of 6 million is 6.66% withdrawal rate... That's pretty high, and gives you a decent chance of burning through all those savings. I mean, it's less than 16 years of withdrawals.
Last edited by Bryan995 on Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Of course most small business owners never make anywhere near several hundred thousand a year. But it is possible for a few who have the ability to run their company that successfully.brianwy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:35 pm Small business owner is the way to go. You can make this kind of money and actually enjoy your life unlike many corporate jobs in the salary range. You will work harder than you ever have but you are working directly for yourself and will be directly compensated for that effort.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I'm exposed to how the sausage is made. Worked in those positions. It is not generally true at big tech.Bryan995 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:33 amThis guy FAANG's! Or isn't it MAANG now? 100% the truth. Those that disagree are not yet exposed to how the sausage is really madefortunefavored wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:39 am
I could rant about it for days. Megacorp tech management is truly soul destroying. The issue, fundamentally, is money. It is a pyramid - the higher up you go, the bigger the compensation stakes.. and the fewer people who can claim those stakes. To be clear, the real evil starts once you get beyond first line manager.. managers generally are shielded from the worst of it.
You must toe the company line 1000%, even if it is terrible and stupid. Then you must constantly be battling politically to fight off all those other people who want to claw up that compensation ladder. Make yourself look good, make other people look bad (although NO ONE would ever admit that was what they were effectively doing.) Or else you're put on the "no future" list and/or pushed out.
Alliances, backstabbing.. it's non-stop. Being forced to spin bad decisions to staff and sell them on it, justifying insane changes in compensation structures, selling terrible company strategic decisions or tactics, creating doomed plans but having no choice but to pretend they were great, deciding who gets laid off for no good reason due to executive management arbitrary targets, stealth performance rankings of individuals that will doom their careers, diversity quotas without daring to say they were diversity quotas.. just on and on.
The higher you go, the worse it is. I honestly think 95% of my peers were sociopaths. They could do this stuff without blinking and think nothing was wrong with it.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Sounds perfect!Bryan995 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:15 pmWhoops you are right. Planning on a 3% SWR. 6M LNW -> 180k/fire. 180k should be plenty! And at 3% SWR it sets a nice income floor, with the ability to further enjoy the good years and tighten up through the bad.HomerJ wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:09 pmYou need 400k/year?Bryan995 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:41 am 5 years post PhD. Started making 160k and slowly increased to 300k. Recently moved onto a pre-ipo company where if all goes OK, TC should be in the 700k-1.5M range. Currently estimated at 650k ish. HHI is 900k (400k cash).
Will pull rip cord at 6M LNW -> 400k/yr FIRE.
Also 400k out of 6 million is 6.66% withdrawal rate... That's pretty high, and gives you a decent chance of burning through all those savings. I mean, it's less than 16 years of withdrawals.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I believe there is a point in many if not most people s lives when they do not care about having more money. At least they don t care enough to have the attainment of additional wealth factor in their major decisions about how they live their life. Perhaps a big factor in this attitude is a somewhat advanced age.masonstone wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:14 pmI disagree, quitting a 7 figure job is more difficult than you think, as most people, including myself, always want more money. So just like the person making less I can’t leave my job easily.sents13 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:40 amThat's because you have already made 7 figure income and prob have 8 figure assets. You're not in a position to be "unhappy" by the reasons that plague most normal people. You can always quit your job to do something "more fulfilling".masonstone wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:31 pm I make a 7 figure income and to be honest more money doesn’t bring you more happiness. In fact the only thing I can think of that an ultra-high net worth person can do that someone making 200K can’t is to have a private jet. Even then a private jet is less safe than commercial travel. Just look at what happened to Kobe.
What brings you satisfaction isn’t more money but a purpose in what you’re doing. I feel like I lack that so even despite my high earnings I don’t have much job satisfaction.
If you did not went down this path, you would be even more unhappy because you do not have the money to lead a fulfilling life.
Look at a current craze, the FIRE movement. Many young people living quite frugally so that they can accumulate enough to support their frugal lifestyles, and allow them to quit earning money. Even at a relatively young age.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I think that s an excellent way to define burnout.NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:54 pmOne of the best definitions I have heard for burnout is when the sustained long term stress of doing something is not worth the benefit.
The question then becomes, "Can this burnout be dealt with, without leaving a lucrative job whose income might not be replaced?".
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Sometimes it can be, sometimes not. That is why saving and investing aggressively very early is paramount.bltn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:56 pmI think that s an excellent way to define burnout.NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:54 pmOne of the best definitions I have heard for burnout is when the sustained long term stress of doing something is not worth the benefit.
The question then becomes, "Can this burnout be dealt with, without leaving a lucrative job whose income might not be replaced?".
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Yes, that point comes, and it typically comes earlier for high earners, at least in terms of not needing more money. Not caring about it may come a bit later. In some ways, it's a good situation to be in, of course. However, it can also sap your motivation to continue working to some extent.bltn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:52 pm I believe there is a point in many if not most people s lives when they do not care about having more money. At least they don t care enough to have the attainment of additional wealth factor in their major decisions about how they live their life. Perhaps a big factor in this attitude is a somewhat advanced age.
There are non-financial benefits to continuing your work and your career. Being FI and not caring about making more money makes it harder to stay motivated and put up with all the negatives of work even if the overall net contribution of work to your life is positive. Still, my anecdotal observation among the people I know in this situation (in real life rather than on-line forums) is that they decide to keep working if they can.
I haven't seen such statistics - has such information been published? I would imagine that it's still a tiny percentage who do this.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
One collateral consequence of FIRE is lots of opportunities too for motivated people who really want those highly paid jobs.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I also believe it s a tiny percentage interested in FIRE. Just a a small fraction of the small percentage of people who live below there means and save a significant retirement nest egg. But the number of people responding on line with FIRE ambitions still surprises me with its size. No published statistics that I m aware of. Just my impressions.visualguy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:55 pmYes, that point comes, and it typically comes earlier for high earners, at least in terms of not needing more money. Not caring about it may come a bit later. In some ways, it's a good situation to be in, of course. However, it can also sap your motivation to continue working to some extent.bltn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:52 pm I believe there is a point in many if not most people s lives when they do not care about having more money. At least they don t care enough to have the attainment of additional wealth factor in their major decisions about how they live their life. Perhaps a big factor in this attitude is a somewhat advanced age.
There are non-financial benefits to continuing your work and your career. Being FI and not caring about making more money makes it harder to stay motivated and put up with all the negatives of work even if the overall net contribution of work to your life is positive. Still, my anecdotal observation among the people I know in this situation (in real life rather than on-line forums) is that they decide to keep working if they can.
I haven't seen such statistics - has such information been published? I would imagine that it's still a tiny percentage who do this.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
That s a nice one.
We have enough stuff to worry about once the money s taken care of.
My wife took a tip from our son and invested in that fruit company. Meanwhile, I realized my limitations and continued with my passive indexing.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
The FIRE movement bears some broad similarities to what we saw in 1999- lots of young people with great, well paid employment voluntarily leaving due to stock market gains and a desire to be independent, to experience more excitement, to escape work hierarchies, to retire, work as a gig entrepreneur or join start ups.
I think some of us who had to be more conservative about our careers envied them as they left, but many careers derailed starting at that time because the dot com boom also went bust and start ups have their own pitfalls. Sadly, some of my best friends experienced that.
I think some of us who had to be more conservative about our careers envied them as they left, but many careers derailed starting at that time because the dot com boom also went bust and start ups have their own pitfalls. Sadly, some of my best friends experienced that.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
I’ve never met anyone in real life who has FIRE'd. And I’m in the prime demographic for it — early 40s in big tech. I think the buzz online is not representative of what’s happening in the real world.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
+1
I've been working in tech for 25 years - both startups and big companies. None of my colleagues FIRE'd, even though many could easily do that (definitely most of my cohort). When I look at my hundreds of LinkedIn connections, I see that they are all still working other than one who retired at the age of 66. I'm actually very surprised. I didn't expect many to retire early, but I expected the number to be larger than zero.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Also in tech and I'm planning to start winding down when I hit my number. Of course, if we continue inflating then "One More Year" syndrome is a possibility though.visualguy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:51 pm+1
I've been working in tech for 25 years - both startups and big companies. None of my colleagues FIRE'd, even though many could easily do that (definitely most of my cohort). When I look at my hundreds of LinkedIn connections, I see that they are all still working other than one who retired at the age of 66. I'm actually very surprised. I didn't expect many to retire early, but I expected the number to be larger than zero.
Last edited by Marseille07 on Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
Question - how does a non-software engineer get to these levels? Without changing profession. Any life stories or ideas? Thanks.
Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
It's difficult when every year can net you single to multiple six figures in liquid networth.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:13 amAlso in tech and I'm planning to start winding down when I hit my number. Of course, if we continue inflating then "One More Year" syndrome is a possibility though.visualguy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:51 pm+1
I've been working in tech for 25 years - both startups and big companies. None of my colleagues FIRE'd, even though many could easily do that (definitely most of my cohort). When I look at my hundreds of LinkedIn connections, I see that they are all still working other than one who retired at the age of 66. I'm actually very surprised. I didn't expect many to retire early, but I expected the number to be larger than zero.
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Re: Very high earners ($400k+), how did you do it?
It's not easy for sure, but at some point you have to walk or you're not retiring. I know some BHs are trying to walk when their portfolio growth beats their annual comp package.