Should I consider relocating for this job?

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wojo8625
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Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

I applied for a tech job that was listed as remote. Come to find out, it is more of a hybrid position and would require (at least) 2 days on-site per week. After further discussion, it was determined that it would be necessary to relocate as I need to be within commuting distance, in case I am needed on site more often. It's located in a smaller "big city" in the midwest where I don't have any family/friends/contacts. My parents and the rest of the family are in the area I currently live in (within driving distance of this location but still several hours away). I am in my early 40s.

Salary range is between 75K and 100K (current salary is 62K).

Salary would go from 60k to anywhere between 75K and 100K. Cost of living would be 20% higher than where I am at now.

My house is currently paid off. If I were to move, I would likely be renting (at least to start off). Rent for a small apartment that would be close to work looks to be in the $1000-1500 range. I could probably find something under a $1000 if I were to live at least 30-45 min from work. If I were to buy, I would have another mortgage and significantly higher property taxes (4-6K per year for a comparable house vs. just over 1K I pay now).

I would be moving from a 401K to pension. Seems like a better plan, as long as I am there for at least five years.

Health insurance costs would be less (deductible and copays would be covered).

I like the idea of going to the office two days per week but I do wonder if that changes once the pandemic winds down.

No relocation would be offered

The job is more specialized than the one I have now, which is a plus. OTOH I currently have a good boss and on a team that works well together, even though there are other issues with the job. The new place would be a question mark as far as the team goes.

The biggest sticking point is relocation. Also, I would have to stay five years in order to be vested in their retirement plan.

Is this something I should consider? I like the higher pay and benefits, but there is also increased cost of living. One goal I have is to reduce driving as much as possible as I currently commute 45 min each way, but I'm not sure I would put much of a dent in this goal. Even if commute is shorter, there would still be trips (at least monthly, possibly more) to visit family. Also I'd be driving to a gym every day rather than use my home gym.
Last edited by wojo8625 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by JoeRetire »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 pm Is this something I should consider?
Of course you should consider it.

Decide what's important to you both in the short term and mostly in the long term.
Weigh what this job offers against those factors.
Then decide.

Remember that there is always more than one job out there. It's never solely a decision between your current job and one other job.
I love a good nap. Sometimes it’s the only thing getting me out of bed in the morning.
deikel
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by deikel »

they advertise as remote, then say its some on site, then want you to be in commuting range WITHOUT offering relo ?

They either a) don't really know what they want - run away or b) they used the remote as a catch to find candidates (bait and switch) - run away

The salary is only mildy attractive (20% raise rule of thumb). your COL increases by 20%, plus you need 20% to make the risk of the move make sense, so you need min 90-95k to make that work, that is top of their range and they are already trying to negotiate the perk of working from home down...

Tell them if they need on site work, you need the top range of salary and a relocation, offer to be on site 100% to give them something in return - see how they respond; otherwise thank them for the nice discussion and move on.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 pm Is this something I should consider?
Of course you should consider it.
The initial phone screenings went well and they want me to travel there for an in-person interview, which would be an all day thing (between travel and the interview itself), so I want to make sure it's something I would strongly consider before wasting anyone's time. I'm a bit torn, to be honest. If it were local, I'd definitely jump on it.
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm Decide what's important to you both in the short term and mostly in the long term.
Weigh what this job offer against those factors.
Then decide.
There are pros and cons either way. I guess I need to rank them.

One of my main goals with this job search is to significantly reduce driving time. I drive 25K miles per year. This job would my total drive time 25% or so. It would be more....but some of the hours I would save from less commuting would be spent on visits to family, driving to a gym (instead of working out at home), etc. I am also looking for a more specialized position (check), work-life balance (check although I mostly have that now), and higher pay/better benefits (check). Paid time off would be about the same, maybe slightly less.
ThankYouJack
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by ThankYouJack »

That's a red flag if an employer lists a job as remote and later (after you apply?) you find out that you're required to be in the office multiple days a week. Seems dishonest on their end.

With that said, you seem excited about the opportunity but not excited to move. Could you get another job in your current location or a 100% remote job? I wouldn't move for a small bump, but if you went up to $100k it could be worth it. However, the red flag should be a bit of a concern.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pm they advertise as remote, then say its some on site, then want you to be in commuting range WITHOUT offering relo ?

They either a) don't really know what they want - run away or b) they used the remote as a catch to find candidates (bait and switch) - run away
I applied for so many jobs that it is possible I may have missed the on sit requirement, but I am pretty sure it said remote. It even came up on Indeed when I did a search for remote jobs.
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pmThe salary is only mildy attractive (20% raise rule of thumb). your COL increases by 20%, plus you need 20% to make the risk of the move make sense, so you need min 90-95k to make that work, that is top of their range and they are already trying to negotiate the perk of working from home down...
Great points. There is definitely that 20% risk that needs to be factored in as well.
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pmTell them if they need on site work, you need the top range of salary and a relocation, offer to be on site 100% to give them something in return - see how they respond; otherwise thank them for the nice discussion and move on.
That seems fair. I would just have to make sure I can find a decent place to live near there as I am trying to get away from commuting 45 minutes each way daily.

The first few months actually does require being on site 5 days per week for training. That was definitely not in the ad. I just wonder if they revoke the "remote work" thing and require being in the office daily when the pandemic winds down. There is really nothing that stops them from doing that, right?
muffins14
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by muffins14 »

You should at least also make are you negotiate to find if you can get higher compensation too
Topic Author
wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

ThankYouJack wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:23 pm That's a red flag if an employer lists a job as remote and later (after you apply?) you find out that you're required to be in the office multiple days a week. Seems dishonest on their end.
Yep. Again, I must have missed that multiple day thing but don't think so.
ThankYouJack wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:23 pm With that said, you seem excited about the opportunity but not excited to move. Could you get another job in your current location or a 100% remote job? I wouldn't move for a small bump, but if you went up to $100k it could be worth it. However, the red flag should be a bit of a concern.
I've been looking in my location for quite some time but haven't found anything comparable. I have had a few offers this year that are slightly better than my current position but not really worth jumping for.

It is now clear that I should settle for nothing less than the top of their range.
mrmass
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by mrmass »

Sounds fishy to me. Remote, Hybrid, back and forth. I'd ask why this position is open. You might not get a truthful answer though. If you're going to move and you're in IT (assuming you're not run of the mill desktop support) you can chose to move anyplace where you don't know anyone. Why move to St. Louis... (just gussing) :mrgreen:

Not directly related to the post but IMO jobs advertised or even made "remote" might not be remote when all this "snaps" back. When it "snaps" back is debatable.
deikel
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by deikel »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:24 pm
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pm they advertise as remote, then say its some on site, then want you to be in commuting range WITHOUT offering relo ?

They either a) don't really know what they want - run away or b) they used the remote as a catch to find candidates (bait and switch) - run away
I applied for so many jobs that it is possible I may have missed the on sit requirement, but I am pretty sure it said remote. It even came up on Indeed when I did a search for remote jobs.
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pmThe salary is only mildy attractive (20% raise rule of thumb). your COL increases by 20%, plus you need 20% to make the risk of the move make sense, so you need min 90-95k to make that work, that is top of their range and they are already trying to negotiate the perk of working from home down...
Great points. There is definitely that 20% risk that needs to be factored in as well.
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pmTell them if they need on site work, you need the top range of salary and a relocation, offer to be on site 100% to give them something in return - see how they respond; otherwise thank them for the nice discussion and move on.
That seems fair. I would just have to make sure I can find a decent place to live near there as I am trying to get away from commuting 45 minutes each way daily.

The first few months actually does require being on site 5 days per week for training. That was definitely not in the ad. I just wonder if they revoke the "remote work" thing and require being in the office daily when the pandemic winds down. There is really nothing that stops them from doing that, right?
That seems the probable reason to require on site. Which is fine for you, you can give them something, 100% on site, that does not cost you anything (you have to relo even for 50% on site anyway)

So, if they said they will train you for 5 weeks on site as a remote worker, then they were willing to house you for 5 weeks in a hotel/apartment....there is something to latch on for the relo, to pay for your initial time in town which you can use to find an apartment...they have it already budgeted...or they were thinking about a local candidate form the get go

Also remember, if you start a new job now, you probably will sit out on the first annual salary increase (assuming they are on the calendar year or close to it with appraisals), which this year will probably have to be some 5-6 % just to keep up with inflation....so there is another logical reason to ask for 95k
Everything you read in this post is my personal opinion. If you disagree with this disclaimer, please un-read the text immediately and destroy any copy or remembrance of it.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by JoeRetire »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:19 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 pm Is this something I should consider?
Of course you should consider it.
The initial phone screenings went well and they want me to travel there for an in-person interview, which would be an all day thing (between travel and the interview itself), so I want to make sure it's something I would strongly consider before wasting anyone's time. I'm a bit torn, to be honest. If it were local, I'd definitely jump on it.
If it's not worth an all day event to check it out, then just decline and look for something local.
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm Decide what's important to you both in the short term and mostly in the long term.
Weigh what this job offer against those factors.
Then decide.
There are pros and cons either way. I guess I need to rank them.

One of my main goals with this job search is to significantly reduce driving time. I drive 25K miles per year. This job would my total drive time 25% or so. It would be more....but some of the hours I would save from less commuting would be spent on visits to family, driving to a gym (instead of working out at home), etc. I am also looking for a more specialized position (check), work-life balance (check although I mostly have that now), and higher pay/better benefits (check). Paid time off would be about the same, maybe slightly less.
Ranking your pros and cons make sense.
Usually, I find that there is one thing that rises far above the others. After a little introspection, you may find one too.
I love a good nap. Sometimes it’s the only thing getting me out of bed in the morning.
Topic Author
wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

mrmass wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:29 pm Sounds fishy to me. Remote, Hybrid, back and forth. I'd ask why this position is open. You might not get a truthful answer though. If you're going to move and you're in IT (assuming you're not run of the mill desktop support) you can chose to move anyplace where you don't know anyone. Why move to St. Louis... (just gussing) :mrgreen:
They are replacing an existing employee.
mrmass wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:29 pmNot directly related to the post but IMO jobs advertised or even made "remote" might not be remote when all this "snaps" back. When it "snaps" back is debatable.
That's exactly what I'm thinking. There is nothing to stop them from cutting off remote work down the line.
Mike Scott
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by Mike Scott »

If you want to stay where you are and near family, I would keep looking for something closer to home or "fully remote". Unless of course something about this one is your dream job / big opportunity but your post does not read like that to me.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:34 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:24 pm
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pm they advertise as remote, then say its some on site, then want you to be in commuting range WITHOUT offering relo ?

They either a) don't really know what they want - run away or b) they used the remote as a catch to find candidates (bait and switch) - run away
I applied for so many jobs that it is possible I may have missed the on sit requirement, but I am pretty sure it said remote. It even came up on Indeed when I did a search for remote jobs.
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pmThe salary is only mildy attractive (20% raise rule of thumb). your COL increases by 20%, plus you need 20% to make the risk of the move make sense, so you need min 90-95k to make that work, that is top of their range and they are already trying to negotiate the perk of working from home down...
Great points. There is definitely that 20% risk that needs to be factored in as well.
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:14 pmTell them if they need on site work, you need the top range of salary and a relocation, offer to be on site 100% to give them something in return - see how they respond; otherwise thank them for the nice discussion and move on.
That seems fair. I would just have to make sure I can find a decent place to live near there as I am trying to get away from commuting 45 minutes each way daily.

The first few months actually does require being on site 5 days per week for training. That was definitely not in the ad. I just wonder if they revoke the "remote work" thing and require being in the office daily when the pandemic winds down. There is really nothing that stops them from doing that, right?
That seems the probable reason to require on site. Which is fine for you, you can give them something, 100% on site, that does not cost you anything (you have to relo even for 50% on site anyway)
I wouldn't mind going in every day IF I were close enough (let's say 15 minutes) to the office.
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:34 pmSo, if they said they will train you for 5 weeks on site as a remote worker, then they were willing to house you for 5 weeks in a hotel/apartment....there is something to latch on for the relo, to pay for your initial time in town which you can use to find an apartment...they have it already budgeted...or they were thinking about a local candidate form the get go
There has been no indication they would pay for my living expenses during training. I did ask the HR person about relo pay. She paused then said something about that being "up to the hiring manager".
deikel wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:34 pmAlso remember, if you start a new job now, you probably will sit out on the first annual salary increase (assuming they are on the calendar year or close to it with appraisals), which this year will probably have to be some 5-6 % just to keep up with inflation....so there is another logical reason to ask for 95k
Good point. I did not think about that.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

Mike Scott wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:38 pm If you want to stay where you are and near family, I would keep looking for something closer to home or "fully remote". Unless of course something about this one is your dream job / big opportunity but your post does not read like that to me.
It's a step up for sure, but I don't know about dream job.
poker27
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by poker27 »

Do you want to live in this new area? I don't think this is really a question around comp, but lifestyle. I wouldn't move to an area I didnt want to live in unless there was a SUBSTANCIAL amount of extra pay
ThankYouJack
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by ThankYouJack »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:24 pm The first few months actually does require being on site 5 days per week for training. That was definitely not in the ad. I just wonder if they revoke the "remote work" thing and require being in the office daily when the pandemic winds down. There is really nothing that stops them from doing that, right?
That wouldn't surprise me the way things have gone (on their end) thus far. Seems like they could be trying to take advantage of you.
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:27 pm
It is now clear that I should settle for nothing less than the top of their range.
I would state your salary requirements before the onsite interview and would be firm on $100k. Is there a recruiter you can talk to about it? The way things are going they could take a lot of your time interviewing/traveling, then lowball you with the lower end or even something lower than the advertised range.

Have you looked up the company on GlassDoor? If they rate poorly, I would run away.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:35 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:19 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 pm Is this something I should consider?
Of course you should consider it.
The initial phone screenings went well and they want me to travel there for an in-person interview, which would be an all day thing (between travel and the interview itself), so I want to make sure it's something I would strongly consider before wasting anyone's time. I'm a bit torn, to be honest. If it were local, I'd definitely jump on it.
If it's not worth an all day event to check it out, then just decline and look for something local.
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm Decide what's important to you both in the short term and mostly in the long term.
Weigh what this job offer against those factors.
Then decide.
There are pros and cons either way. I guess I need to rank them.

One of my main goals with this job search is to significantly reduce driving time. I drive 25K miles per year. This job would my total drive time 25% or so. It would be more....but some of the hours I would save from less commuting would be spent on visits to family, driving to a gym (instead of working out at home), etc. I am also looking for a more specialized position (check), work-life balance (check although I mostly have that now), and higher pay/better benefits (check). Paid time off would be about the same, maybe slightly less.
Ranking your pros and cons make sense.
Usually, I find that there is one thing that rises far above the others. After a little introspection, you may find one too.
I'll have to do this introspection quickly as they want an answer pretty quick. In order to buy more time, I would have to schedule the interview.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

poker27 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:40 pm Do you want to live in this new area? I don't think this is really a question around comp, but lifestyle. I wouldn't move to an area I didnt want to live in unless there was a SUBSTANCIAL amount of extra pay
I've been there before and liked visiting. Would I want to live there? There is more to do than where I'm at now I think it would be fun, at least at first. Perhaps I wouldn't enjoy living there as much as I enjoyed visiting, however. The winters are pretty much the same though.
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anon_investor
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by anon_investor »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:42 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:35 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:19 pm
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 pm Is this something I should consider?
Of course you should consider it.
The initial phone screenings went well and they want me to travel there for an in-person interview, which would be an all day thing (between travel and the interview itself), so I want to make sure it's something I would strongly consider before wasting anyone's time. I'm a bit torn, to be honest. If it were local, I'd definitely jump on it.
If it's not worth an all day event to check it out, then just decline and look for something local.
JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:11 pm Decide what's important to you both in the short term and mostly in the long term.
Weigh what this job offer against those factors.
Then decide.
There are pros and cons either way. I guess I need to rank them.

One of my main goals with this job search is to significantly reduce driving time. I drive 25K miles per year. This job would my total drive time 25% or so. It would be more....but some of the hours I would save from less commuting would be spent on visits to family, driving to a gym (instead of working out at home), etc. I am also looking for a more specialized position (check), work-life balance (check although I mostly have that now), and higher pay/better benefits (check). Paid time off would be about the same, maybe slightly less.
Ranking your pros and cons make sense.
Usually, I find that there is one thing that rises far above the others. After a little introspection, you may find one too.
I'll have to do this introspection quickly as they want an answer pretty quick. In order to buy more time, I would have to schedule the interview.
I relocated for my current job. I ONLY gave it real consideration because of the generous relocation package. This is something they mentioned up front. Do they offer any kind of relocation package?
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

ThankYouJack wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:42 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:24 pm The first few months actually does require being on site 5 days per week for training. That was definitely not in the ad. I just wonder if they revoke the "remote work" thing and require being in the office daily when the pandemic winds down. There is really nothing that stops them from doing that, right?
That wouldn't surprise me the way things have gone (on their end) thus far. Seems like they could be trying to take advantage of you.
It wouldn't be the first time that has happened to me. Heh.

ThankYouJack wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:42 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:27 pm
It is now clear that I should settle for nothing less than the top of their range.
I would state your salary requirements before the onsite interview and would be firm on $100k. Is there a recruiter you can talk to about it? The way things are going they could take a lot of your time interviewing/traveling, then lowball you with the lower end or even something lower than the advertised range.

Have you looked up the company on GlassDoor? If they rate poorly, I would run away.
I have been going back and forth with one of their recruiters. Nothing on Glassdoor. It's in the public sector and I can't find anything about this particular branch. I've been told it is laid back and a pleasant environment but that is coming from the recruiter.
campy2010
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by campy2010 »

I would only relocate for a job if it is to a place where I am excited to move to personally that is also a hub for my profession. That way, you're not stuck relocating again if this specific job doesn't work out.

I also think its a red flag that a company is advertising remote work when it's hybrid, mostly on site.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:46 pm I relocated for my current job. I ONLY gave it real consideration because of the generous relocation package. This is something they mentioned up front. Do they offer any kind of relocation package?
I did ask the recruiter. She paused and then said it is up to the manager.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

campy2010 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:48 pm I would only relocate for a job if it is to a place where I am excited to move to personally that is also a hub for my profession. That way, you're not stuck relocating again if this specific job doesn't work out.
The city has more opportunities in my field than where I'm at now but not to the magnitude of a major city like Chicago, Dallas, Minneapolis, etc.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

Thanks for the responses.

I think what I'll do is tell them that my minimum salary requirement is the number at the top of their range and would need paid relo. If they're open to it, I schedule the on site interview. Otherwise, wish them luck and move on.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by JoeRetire »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:42 pm I'll have to do this introspection quickly as they want an answer pretty quick. In order to buy more time, I would have to schedule the interview.
How much time do you realistically need? You must have been thinking about this situation since you started interviewing?

If you can't figure it out in a couple of quiet hours, then that tells me you aren't serious enough about changing jobs and should just stay put for now.
I love a good nap. Sometimes it’s the only thing getting me out of bed in the morning.
ThankYouJack
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by ThankYouJack »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:06 pm Thanks for the responses.

I think what I'll do is tell them that my minimum salary requirement is the number at the top of their range and would need paid relo. If they're open to it, I schedule the on site interview. Otherwise, wish them luck and move on.
That's a great move to clarify those unknowns before possibly wasting a full day interviewing. They're interviewing you, but think of it as you're interviewing them as well and need to make sure it's a great fit.

Best of luck!
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:12 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:42 pm I'll have to do this introspection quickly as they want an answer pretty quick. In order to buy more time, I would have to schedule the interview.
How much time do you realistically need? You must have been thinking about this situation since you started interviewing?

If you can't figure it out in a couple of quiet hours, then that tells me you aren't serious enough about changing jobs and should just stay put for now.
Yes, I have been thinking about it on and off since the first phone interview and am still torn. You're probably right.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

ThankYouJack wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:13 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:06 pm Thanks for the responses.

I think what I'll do is tell them that my minimum salary requirement is the number at the top of their range and would need paid relo. If they're open to it, I schedule the on site interview. Otherwise, wish them luck and move on.
That's a great move to clarify those unknowns before possibly wasting a full day interviewing. They're interviewing you, but think of it as you're interviewing them as well and need to make sure it's a great fit.

Best of luck!
Yep and I'd be putting in more time than they would be given the travel time (as well as transportation costs).
Thanks!
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LiveSimple
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by LiveSimple »

I would stay where I am if my family s nearby. Unless the new job comes with compensation and I can take a few weeks off and visit family.
GT99
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by GT99 »

I'll repeat the best advice I've received about deciding on a job change: If it's not an easy yes, then it's a no.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by harrychan »

Reading your hesitation and the fact that it is a 5 year vest for your pension / retirement is a no for me. You're the same age as me. We may have 2 or 3 good moves left in our careers. I wouldn't want to be locked in for 5 years especially in tech. That's a lot to lose. I also have pension that will vest in 5 years but I also had a great 401k program so the pension is icing on the cake. I also got a 45% raise when I got this job almost 5 years ago ago.

I think you can do better.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by GT99 »

mrmass wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:29 pm Sounds fishy to me. Remote, Hybrid, back and forth. I'd ask why this position is open. You might not get a truthful answer though. If you're going to move and you're in IT (assuming you're not run of the mill desktop support) you can chose to move anyplace where you don't know anyone. Why move to St. Louis... (just gussing) :mrgreen:

Not directly related to the post but IMO jobs advertised or even made "remote" might not be remote when all this "snaps" back. When it "snaps" back is debatable.
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. If there are multiple people involved, it could be a miscommunication or misunderstanding on their side, it could be the hiring manager said "remote" and then someone above them made a broader decision about remote work, etc.

I have an open position on my team right now, and our internal recruiter scheduled a call with several external recruiting vendors to go over what I'm looking for. She did an intro, and she said a few thing that weren't entirely correct.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

GT99 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:24 pm I'll repeat the best advice I've received about deciding on a job change: If it's not an easy yes, then it's a no.
Interesting. I am still waiting for that offer that is a "shoo in" where I'm ready to say yes without hesitation. Perhaps I should hold out until that happens.
123
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by 123 »

Just say "No".
Last edited by 123 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

harrychan wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:25 pm Reading your hesitation and the fact that it is a 5 year vest for your pension / retirement is a no for me. You're the same age as me. We may have 2 or 3 good moves left in our careers.

I wouldn't want to be locked in for 5 years especially in tech. That's a lot to lose. I also have pension that will vest in 5 years but I also had a great 401k program so the pension is icing on the cake. I also got a 45% raise when I got this job almost 5 years ago ago.

I think you can do better.

Great point.

That five year thing has me a bit hesitant, I must admit. I'm thinking "what if I take it but dread going into work every day?" That would be a long five years.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by JoeRetire »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:30 pm
GT99 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:24 pm I'll repeat the best advice I've received about deciding on a job change: If it's not an easy yes, then it's a no.
Interesting. I am still waiting for that offer that is a "shoo in" where I'm ready to say yes without hesitation. Perhaps I should hold out until that happens.
If you aren't ready to be all in, then stay out.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by rage_phish »

The job is a hard pass for me. Not nearly enough of a bump to make me relocate

But since it sounds like you are actively applying and interviewing…I’d continue with this interview process. It will help you brush up interview skills and it may lead to an offer you can use when negotiating a different company offers
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

At the risk of sounding like that model in the 1990s who famously said she wouldn’t even get out of bed for less than $10,000 day, I only take jobs I’m really excited about. If I’m on the fence, even for just amorphous reasons around gut feeling, I generally turn it down (or ask for a second meeting to discuss mutual expectations, and sometimes that makes things clearer).

My reasoning is that I will have to live that job day to day. Nobody else will. No job is better than the wrong job.

I get that not everyone can be as picky, but I do think taking the right job for you will make you happier and more productive, so it’s worth it.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by anon_investor »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:17 pm
ThankYouJack wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:13 pm
wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:06 pm Thanks for the responses.

I think what I'll do is tell them that my minimum salary requirement is the number at the top of their range and would need paid relo. If they're open to it, I schedule the on site interview. Otherwise, wish them luck and move on.
That's a great move to clarify those unknowns before possibly wasting a full day interviewing. They're interviewing you, but think of it as you're interviewing them as well and need to make sure it's a great fit.

Best of luck!
Yep and I'd be putting in more time than they would be given the travel time (as well as transportation costs).
Thanks!
They're not paying for your travel costs to interview in person? :shock:
The discretionary relocation package would be kind of a red flag for me, espcially if I had no reason other than the job to move to that location.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by JoeRetire »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:43 pmNo job is better than the wrong job.
I agree with everything else you wrote, but not this.

Being on a payroll is usually better than not. Being on a payroll means you can usually afford to wait for the right job. Being unemployed does not.
I love a good nap. Sometimes it’s the only thing getting me out of bed in the morning.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:31 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:43 pmNo job is better than the wrong job.
I agree with everything else you wrote, but not this.

Being on a payroll is usually better than not. Being on a payroll means you can usually afford to wait for the right job. Being unemployed does not.
At least my ratio’s improving! 😅
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by beyou »

wojo8625 wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:32 pm
harrychan wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:25 pm Reading your hesitation and the fact that it is a 5 year vest for your pension / retirement is a no for me. You're the same age as me. We may have 2 or 3 good moves left in our careers.

I wouldn't want to be locked in for 5 years especially in tech. That's a lot to lose. I also have pension that will vest in 5 years but I also had a great 401k program so the pension is icing on the cake. I also got a 45% raise when I got this job almost 5 years ago ago.

I think you can do better.

Great point.

That five year thing has me a bit hesitant, I must admit. I'm thinking "what if I take it but dread going into work every day?" That would be a long five years.
Many employers have deferred compensation with 3-4 year long vesting periods. I think you need to carefully consider any move to any employer involving relocation OR deferred vesting of any comp, but here you have both. Need to be really sure. Your strategy to make your requirements clear up front make sense in this case (distance to travel for in person all day interview). Not always wise but i think so in this case. Usually best to get them excited about you first then make the requirements more concrete.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by beyou »

My son just had an interview for an exciting opportunity.
He told them up front he wanted remote (willing to come to office once/month for a few days). They went ahead with multiple interview, made a generous offer but said he must be in 2 days/week. They too had a generous but rolling 4 year vesting retirement plan (beneficial for very long stay). I told him they could easily decide on 5 days/week in office after joining and he had to be willing to live within a commute distance or turn it down. He turned it down. Later they said they are considering new remote positions. All that said, for a new person, seems best to be onsite initially.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

rage_phish wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:39 pm The job is a hard pass for me. Not nearly enough of a bump to make me relocate

But since it sounds like you are actively applying and interviewing…I’d continue with this interview process. It will help you brush up interview skills and it may lead to an offer you can use when negotiating a different company offers
If I know I am going to turn them down, I would rather not waste my time (a good 12 hours between the driving and interviewing), their time, or my money (at least a full tank of gas) for one interview. Good point to get some practice but I have been on multiple interviews and am gotten some good practice so far. :)
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:43 pm At the risk of sounding like that model in the 1990s who famously said she wouldn’t even get out of bed for less than $10,000 day, I only take jobs I’m really excited about. If I’m on the fence, even for just amorphous reasons around gut feeling, I generally turn it down (or ask for a second meeting to discuss mutual expectations, and sometimes that makes things clearer).

My reasoning is that I will have to live that job day to day. Nobody else will. No job is better than the wrong job.

I get that not everyone can be as picky, but I do think taking the right job for you will make you happier and more productive, so it’s worth it.
Good point. I am underpaid and underutilized in current position but it is probably best to hold off until I find something that hits all of my biggest requirements. This job comes close but the relocation and pension vesting are major sticking points. The relocation can be a good thing but then again, it may not be due to a variety of factors. As Harry stated above, thete are concerns about being obligated to one place for an extended period of time. I may be in my peak earning years bit that will change at some time in the future as ageism becomes an issue.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:27 pm
They're not paying for your travel costs to interview in person? :shock:
The discretionary relocation package would be kind of a red flag for me, espcially if I had no reason other than the job to move to that location.
No, they did not offer to pay. It would cost me a tank of gas and then some.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

beyou wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:03 pm
Many employers have deferred compensation with 3-4 year long vesting periods. I think you need to carefully consider any move to any employer involving relocation OR deferred vesting of any comp, but here you have both. Need to be really sure. Your strategy to make your requirements clear up front make sense in this case (distance to travel for in person all day interview). Not always wise but i think so in this case. Usually best to get them excited about you first then make the requirements more concrete.
My sediments exactly. It is almost as if I am signing a five year contract to work in a different city, like a professional athlete, but without the multimillion dollar salary.
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wojo8625
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by wojo8625 »

beyou wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:12 pm My son just had an interview for an exciting opportunity.
He told them up front he wanted remote (willing to come to office once/month for a few days). They went ahead with multiple interview, made a generous offer but said he must be in 2 days/week. They too had a generous but rolling 4 year vesting retirement plan (beneficial for very long stay). I told him they could easily decide on 5 days/week in office after joining and he had to be willing to live within a commute distance or turn it down. He turned it down. Later they said they are considering new remote positions. All that said, for a new person, seems best to be onsite initially.
Seems like a similar situation. I will give them my price for relocation and then perhaps mention I am flexible (i.e. willing to come down) if the terms ever change and the position becomes full remote.
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Re: Should I consider relocating for this job?

Post by edge »

No. This is not worth it
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