POA/Executor Account Access

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SmileyFace
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POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

Someone recently revived Taylor's old thread on "Final Instructions": viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198919
and it got me thinking.
He mentions Accounts and Passwords being saved off.
1) Does an executor of an estate have the legal right to log into various accounts if he was left the credentials? I am sure this is in the T's and C's of various Financial institutions but wondering if there is a standard here.
2) Similarly for a POA. If someone is named a POA (for a person still alive) and is given usernames/passwords by the designee - are they legally allowed to login (while designee still alive) as if they were the designee to pay bills and transfer funds on the designee's behalf? (or are they supposed to get their name added to the accounts and set up their own access).
Last edited by SmileyFace on Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

SmileyFace wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:39 am Someone recently revived Talor's old thread on "Final Instructions": viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198919
and it got me thinking.
He mentions Accounts and Passwords being saved off.
1) Does an executor of an estate have the legal right to log into various accounts if he was left the credentials? I am sure this is in the T's and C's of various Financial institutions but wondering if there is a standard here.
2) Similarly for a POA. If someone is named a POA and is given usernames/passwords by the designee - are they legally allowed to login as if they were the designee to pay bills and transfer funds on the designee's behalf? (or are they supposed to get their name added to the accounts and set up their own access).
Well.. a few things.. POA expire at death. Setting that aside.

Some bank's have the concept of "authorized signer", which is sort of like a limited access to an account to write checks and things, without ownership. If you give someone a POA, if you don't want them to have to furnish the document constantly, having them as an authorized signer can simplify things. Do not add the person as a joint tenant, as that gives them ownership of part of the money.

Furthermore, at places like Vanguard, they have their own POA paperwork (multiple levels) to allow people to manage your accounts on your behalf using their credentials.

From a cyber security perspective, error on using structures like i've described vs giving peopel your passwords, especially as more institutions use 2FA, it will become harder to password share.
Earned 34 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:43 am
SmileyFace wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:39 am Someone recently revived Talor's old thread on "Final Instructions": viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198919
and it got me thinking.
He mentions Accounts and Passwords being saved off.
1) Does an executor of an estate have the legal right to log into various accounts if he was left the credentials? I am sure this is in the T's and C's of various Financial institutions but wondering if there is a standard here.
2) Similarly for a POA. If someone is named a POA and is given usernames/passwords by the designee - are they legally allowed to login as if they were the designee to pay bills and transfer funds on the designee's behalf? (or are they supposed to get their name added to the accounts and set up their own access).
Well.. a few things.. POA expire at death. Setting that aside.

Some bank's have the concept of "authorized signer", which is sort of like a limited access to an account to write checks and things, without ownership. If you give someone a POA, if you don't want them to have to furnish the document constantly, having them as an authorized signer can simplify things. Do not add the person as a joint tenant, as that gives them ownership of part of the money.

Furthermore, at places like Vanguard, they have their own POA paperwork (multiple levels) to allow people to manage your accounts on your behalf using their credentials.

From a cyber security perspective, error on using structures like i've described vs giving peopel your passwords, especially as more institutions use 2FA, it will become harder to password share.
Thanks for the quick response. For POA - I went back and edited for clarity (to say "While still alive"). My particular circumstance is one of my parents recently passed away - and it was the one that paid all the bills. Remaining parent is asking for help - giving me credentials and asking if I could just take care of paying bills, etc. So far I have insisted we sit down and do it together (but parent tires very easily). I am also wondering if they end up in a hospital or are ill-disposed for a period of time if it's okay to simply log in to pay bills or if I need to go through the authorized-agent trouble for each and every account. So part 2 of my question is my current circumstance. I was asking Part 1 because it seemed to be implied in the original post and the responses that account access information should be left for Executors. I understand the cybersecurity concerns - wanted to just set that aside and ask "is this legal". (at least one of his accounts allows two phone numbers to be registered - when you login you can choose one mobile or the other for text verification - almost seems to be expecting two people - or maybe one person with two devices).
I am walking through setting up auto-pay on as many items as possible.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by anon_investor »

SmileyFace wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:39 am Someone recently revived Taylor's old thread on "Final Instructions": viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198919
and it got me thinking.
He mentions Accounts and Passwords being saved off.
1) Does an executor of an estate have the legal right to log into various accounts if he was left the credentials? I am sure this is in the T's and C's of various Financial institutions but wondering if there is a standard here.
2) Similarly for a POA. If someone is named a POA (for a person still alive) and is given usernames/passwords by the designee - are they legally allowed to login (while designee still alive) as if they were the designee to pay bills and transfer funds on the designee's behalf? (or are they supposed to get their name added to the accounts and set up their own access).
If the owner died, I don't think anyone aside from a joint owner legally should be accessing the account online. I would assume from a practical stand point no one would get in trouble if someone logged into those accounts simply to print out some statements, to help the future executor catalog what accounts needed to be addressed. But from a preparation stand point any final instruction really should have the names of the financial institutions, account types/numbers, and contact informtion/instructions from the financial instutution for how to deal with deseased account holders. This is something I have included in my "death book". I update this annually or when I get a new account.

In most jurisdictions a named executor is not a recognized executor until they have obtained letter of testimentary from the court naming the executor. I was executor of a relative's estate, while I knew the existance of the relative's accounts, I had no access to them until I was able to bring the court issued letter of testimentary naming me as the executor to the bank. Armed with that letter, and the relative's death certificate I was able to close out the relative's bank accounts and transfer all the funds to a new estate bank account opened up on the spot.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

SmileyFace wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:48 am
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:43 am
SmileyFace wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:39 am Someone recently revived Talor's old thread on "Final Instructions": viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198919
and it got me thinking.
He mentions Accounts and Passwords being saved off.
1) Does an executor of an estate have the legal right to log into various accounts if he was left the credentials? I am sure this is in the T's and C's of various Financial institutions but wondering if there is a standard here.
2) Similarly for a POA. If someone is named a POA and is given usernames/passwords by the designee - are they legally allowed to login as if they were the designee to pay bills and transfer funds on the designee's behalf? (or are they supposed to get their name added to the accounts and set up their own access).
Well.. a few things.. POA expire at death. Setting that aside.

Some bank's have the concept of "authorized signer", which is sort of like a limited access to an account to write checks and things, without ownership. If you give someone a POA, if you don't want them to have to furnish the document constantly, having them as an authorized signer can simplify things. Do not add the person as a joint tenant, as that gives them ownership of part of the money.

Furthermore, at places like Vanguard, they have their own POA paperwork (multiple levels) to allow people to manage your accounts on your behalf using their credentials.

From a cyber security perspective, error on using structures like i've described vs giving peopel your passwords, especially as more institutions use 2FA, it will become harder to password share.
Thanks for the quick response. For POA - I went back and edited for clarity (to say "While still alive"). My particular circumstance is one of my parents recently passed away - and it was the one that paid all the bills. Remaining parent is asking for help - giving me credentials and asking if I could just take care of paying bills, etc. So far I have insisted we sit down and do it together (but parent tires very easily). I am also wondering if they end up in a hospital or are ill-disposed for a period of time if it's okay to simply log in to pay bills or if I need to go through the authorized-agent trouble for each and every account. So part 2 of my question is my current circumstance. I was asking Part 1 because it seemed to be implied in the original post and the responses that account access information should be left for Executors. I understand the cybersecurity concerns - wanted to just set that aside and ask "is this legal". (at least one of his accounts allows two phone numbers to be registered - when you login you can choose one mobile or the other for text verification - almost seems to be expecting two people - or maybe one person with two devices).
I am walking through setting up auto-pay on as many items as possible.
Simplifying your moms life and getting a good list of accounts, bills, etc. (and while doing it... make sure you have beneficiaries / payable on death set the way your mom wants)

I sort of think of two classes of places.. telephone bill, cable bill, etc. i don't get bent out of shape about sharing credentials.. however, if for some reason you need to call, its a pain..

bank acocunts/ investment accounts/etc -- figure out the process at the institution to be able to do it however they want... POA on file, or authorized signer, or whatever.
Earned 34 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by Katietsu »

I will let someone else address the legality of it.

I am responding to your description of setting down to pay bills. I think most people can come close to fully automating this. I helped with a person who was hospitalized for several months. The only bill that had to be paid manually each month was a single credit card. And that might have been able to be automated as well but I did not pursue it. Otherwise, I just watched for a few small rogue medical bills.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by chemocean »

If you are at your parent's house, using your parent's computer and he/she gives you the login credentials at the time, I think it would be OK. Same situation as the parent getting verified on the phone and then asked phone representative if you could act for him/her. I did both with my parent.
ISPs are geographical specific. If your parent was not at the location of the ISP from which a transaction was made, someone (other heir) would have cause to challenge the transaction.
As others have suggested, go through the effort of getting institutional POA (ie. vanguard) in case of incapacitation of the parent.

As far as after death, some have suggested setting up a small JTROS (you and parent) to pay bills shortly after death until you, as personal representative, get access to the accounts after getting the death certificate and 1) going to court to be named personal representative for the estate fund, or 2) gaining access through POD/TOD route outside of probate. Since the JTROS is technically yours, this approach might backfire if you do not have a good relationship with other heirs.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:01 pm
Simplifying your moms life and getting a good list of accounts, bills, etc. (and while doing it... make sure you have beneficiaries / payable on death set the way your mom wants)

I sort of think of two classes of places.. telephone bill, cable bill, etc. i don't get bent out of shape about sharing credentials.. however, if for some reason you need to call, its a pain..

bank acocunts/ investment accounts/etc -- figure out the process at the institution to be able to do it however they want... POA on file, or authorized signer, or whatever.
Interesting you assumed it was my Mom.
In any case - thanks for the input. I will do these things when time allows.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

Katietsu wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:33 pm I will let someone else address the legality of it.

I am responding to your description of setting down to pay bills. I think most people can come close to fully automating this. I helped with a person who was hospitalized for several months. The only bill that had to be paid manually each month was a single credit card. And that might have been able to be automated as well but I did not pursue it. Otherwise, I just watched for a few small rogue medical bills.
Yes - I am trying to automate as much as possible. Some of the bills force you to signup for e-billing in order to do auto-pay which I find interesting (parent still wants to see those paper statements come in) - so for these - we will continue to have to login monthly and pay.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

chemocean wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:40 pm If you are at your parent's house, using your parent's computer and he/she gives you the login credentials at the time, I think it would be OK. Same situation as the parent getting verified on the phone and then asked phone representative if you could act for him/her. I did both with my parent.
ISPs are geographical specific. If your parent was not at the location of the ISP from which a transaction was made, someone (other heir) would have cause to challenge the transaction.
As others have suggested, go through the effort of getting institutional POA (ie. vanguard) in case of incapacitation of the parent.

As far as after death, some have suggested setting up a small JTROS (you and parent) to pay bills shortly after death until you, as personal representative, get access to the accounts after getting the death certificate and 1) going to court to be named personal representative for the estate fund, or 2) gaining access through POD/TOD route outside of probate. Since the JTROS is technically yours, this approach might backfire if you do not have a good relationship with other heirs.
This (underlined) is the tact I will probably continue to take for a period of time until I decided to take some time off to deal with setting up official access. Thanks for the input.
(Do you really think banks, etc. are keeping logs that relate username to IP Address for a period of time and would provide those to a court? I am not concerned about it but interesting side-thought).
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by flyfishers83 »

Sure, financial institutions keep track of log ins. That's a bare minimum. They will also track every button you click, so that money moves/trades can be tracked and will correlate the the user interface interactions and back end server logs. Not typically an issue for your average trader, but can be an issue with high frequency trading and the resulting positions.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by tibbitts »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:43 am ...Furthermore, at places like Vanguard, they have their own POA paperwork (multiple levels) to allow people to manage your accounts on your behalf using their credentials.

From a cyber security perspective, error on using structures like i've described vs giving peopel your passwords, especially as more institutions use 2FA, it will become harder to password share.
I think we have to acknowledge that asking your designated executor/beneficiary/whatever to create accounts at all your financial institutions is a non-trivial imposition. Yes, maybe in theory they will be receiving millions of dollars from you some day, so it seems like a small ask, but not everyone enjoys juggling their own accounts plus other accounts created purely for some future event. Those accounts will likely require some degree of maintenance (accounts sometimes expire if not used, etc.)

I do agree that you have to consider the 2FA issue, even where you haven't set it up, since an "unusual" login (different geographic IP, etc.) may trigger some verification requirement.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by secondcor521 »

SmileyFace wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:39 am Someone recently revived Taylor's old thread on "Final Instructions": viewtopic.php?f=2&t=198919
and it got me thinking.
He mentions Accounts and Passwords being saved off.
1) Does an executor of an estate have the legal right to log into various accounts if he was left the credentials? I am sure this is in the T's and C's of various Financial institutions but wondering if there is a standard here.
2) Similarly for a POA. If someone is named a POA (for a person still alive) and is given usernames/passwords by the designee - are they legally allowed to login (while designee still alive) as if they were the designee to pay bills and transfer funds on the designee's behalf? (or are they supposed to get their name added to the accounts and set up their own access).
Proper / legal answer first:

1. I think generally not. Executors only have authority after the person in question has died. The proper and legal way to do this is for the executor to take the person's will to the local probate court, get appointed, receive their letters testamentary, and present those letters to the financial institution. The institution will then provide that person with their own access and information.

2a. I think generally so. But it would depend on the language of the POA. If the person in question had an attorney prepare a general POA document, the language there would probably determine what they could do. If the POA in question is from the financial institution, then the language in there would control.

2b. Generally, if a financial institution has a POA on file, they will allow you to set up separate access with your own user name and password. You can then log in and do whatever that institution's software lets POAs do, which is generally everything but could possibly be limited in some ways.

Practically speaking, accessing accounts via the person in question's credentials, especially if you're at their house, their computer, and have access to their phone for 2FA, and have their awareness and approval and permission, and if what you're doing is obviously normal and in their best interest, and if all other affected persons (siblings perhaps) are aware, then I think it's OK and something that is commonly done.

One thing I've been tempted to do, but have not done yet and would not recommend but mention here for completeness' sake, is impersonating the person. I know all of my Dad's information (name, DOB, SSN, elementary school, name of first pet, etc.) and could easily impersonate him. But I always go through the more cumbersome process of having them talk to him, identity verify him, then have them ask him for permission to talk to me to take care of whatever it is. It just feels wrong to do it the more expedient way even if everything I'm doing is on the up-and-up.

Automating everything, consolidating everything, and simplifying everything is a good idea at this point. My Dad basically has investment accounts at one place, and a single checking account at a local bank which everything runs through, so I can monitor everything with just two POAs and two logins. All of his bills and deposits are automated. I check up on everything once a month just to monitor for abuse and/or declining mental acuity.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by neverpanic »

secondcor521 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:46 pm Practically speaking, accessing accounts via the person in question's credentials, especially if you're at their house, their computer, and have access to their phone for 2FA, and have their awareness and approval and permission, and if what you're doing is obviously normal and in their best interest, and if all other affected persons (siblings perhaps) are aware, then I think it's OK and something that is commonly done.

One thing I've been tempted to do, but have not done yet and would not recommend but mention here for completeness' sake, is impersonating the person. I know all of my Dad's information (name, DOB, SSN, elementary school, name of first pet, etc.) and could easily impersonate him. But I always go through the more cumbersome process of having them talk to him, identity verify him, then have them ask him for permission to talk to me to take care of whatever it is. It just feels wrong to do it the more expedient way even if everything I'm doing is on the up-and-up.

Automating everything, consolidating everything, and simplifying everything is a good idea at this point. My Dad basically has investment accounts at one place, and a single checking account at a local bank which everything runs through, so I can monitor everything with just two POAs and two logins. All of his bills and deposits are automated. I check up on everything once a month just to monitor for abuse and/or declining mental acuity.
Legality and practicality are often not aligned. A lot of people have bills that aren't on auto-pay.

It's quite common for family instructions to include a list of things to do before a death becomes public knowledge. That could potentially save one's heirs many hours of running around.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by secondcor521 »

neverpanic wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:57 pm
secondcor521 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:46 pm ...
Legality and practicality are often not aligned. A lot of people have bills that aren't on auto-pay.

It's quite common for family instructions to include a list of things to do before a death becomes public knowledge. That could potentially save one's heirs many hours of running around.
I completely agree, which is why I answered both ways.

Halfway through my reply, I became focused on OP's current situation, which seems to be one of paying bills for a currently living person. I agree with you that immediately after death about the practical benefit of getting information, although technically, again, probably not legal.

I also meant to point out that there are generally two different tracks after a person has died. Assets that need to go through probate would generally follow the process I described above. Accounts with TOD/POD/beneficiary designations are handled differently - usually just a copy of the death certificate provided by a beneficiary is sufficient, and can be much faster. There can also be, depending on the state of the decedent, small estate / simplified estate / affidavit procedures, which I guess is a third track.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

SmileyFace wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:39 am
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:01 pm
Simplifying your moms life and getting a good list of accounts, bills, etc. (and while doing it... make sure you have beneficiaries / payable on death set the way your mom wants)

I sort of think of two classes of places.. telephone bill, cable bill, etc. i don't get bent out of shape about sharing credentials.. however, if for some reason you need to call, its a pain..

bank acocunts/ investment accounts/etc -- figure out the process at the institution to be able to do it however they want... POA on file, or authorized signer, or whatever.
Interesting you assumed it was my Mom.
In any case - thanks for the input. I will do these things when time allows.
Good call out.. i miss read "at least one of his accounts allows two phone numbers to be registered " in context of the rest of your post. So i got it backward.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:33 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:43 am ...Furthermore, at places like Vanguard, they have their own POA paperwork (multiple levels) to allow people to manage your accounts on your behalf using their credentials.

From a cyber security perspective, error on using structures like i've described vs giving peopel your passwords, especially as more institutions use 2FA, it will become harder to password share.
I think we have to acknowledge that asking your designated executor/beneficiary/whatever to create accounts at all your financial institutions is a non-trivial imposition. Yes, maybe in theory they will be receiving millions of dollars from you some day, so it seems like a small ask, but not everyone enjoys juggling their own accounts plus other accounts created purely for some future event. Those accounts will likely require some degree of maintenance (accounts sometimes expire if not used, etc.)

I do agree that you have to consider the 2FA issue, even where you haven't set it up, since an "unusual" login (different geographic IP, etc.) may trigger some verification requirement.
Actually, it might not be the beneficiary/executor/etc, it is who you want to be a "power of attorney" while alive, because upon death all of the authorized signer/poa's but it still holds true..

My father is of the age he is asking for help. so i have to help regardless.. Just my experience...
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

tibbitts wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:33 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:43 am ...Furthermore, at places like Vanguard, they have their own POA paperwork (multiple levels) to allow people to manage your accounts on your behalf using their credentials.

From a cyber security perspective, error on using structures like i've described vs giving peopel your passwords, especially as more institutions use 2FA, it will become harder to password share.
I think we have to acknowledge that asking your designated executor/beneficiary/whatever to create accounts at all your financial institutions is a non-trivial imposition. Yes, maybe in theory they will be receiving millions of dollars from you some day, so it seems like a small ask, but not everyone enjoys juggling their own accounts plus other accounts created purely for some future event. Those accounts will likely require some degree of maintenance (accounts sometimes expire if not used, etc.)

I do agree that you have to consider the 2FA issue, even where you haven't set it up, since an "unusual" login (different geographic IP, etc.) may trigger some verification requirement.
Well in my case there isn't much money there - and an eventually landing to a nursing home or assisted living will quickly eat what is there - so any eventual inhileritance is certainly not the point. Someone who hasn't paid a bill in 55 years has trouble suddenly having to pick it all up and needs help. The pain is that, for whatever reason, my parents had multiple checking accounts and savings accounts - first step I did was set up online access to them all (they had no online access) and linked them together so money could he shifted slightly before checks started bouncing (believe I beat this by a day). Next step is too start consolidating and shutting some down (only set up bill pay from a single credit union account).
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

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secondcor521 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:46 pm One thing I've been tempted to do, but have not done yet and would not recommend but mention here for completeness' sake, is impersonating the person. I know all of my Dad's information (name, DOB, SSN, elementary school, name of first pet, etc.) and could easily impersonate him. But I always go through the more cumbersome process of having them talk to him, identity verify him, then have them ask him for permission to talk to me to take care of whatever it is. It just feels wrong to do it the more expedient way even if everything I'm doing is on the up-and-up.
Impersonation sure is tempting. I live over an hour a way and work all week so have been helping on weekends. Banks, etc. might be caught open Saturday morning for any verbal verifications needed (had to do this in one case to open online access) but institutions like Vanguard not so much (too bad he didn't go Fidelity).
Beneficiary changes at Vanguard seem to be allowed online for retirement accounts but not for Fund/Brokerage accounts from what I can see (next job).
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:44 pm [
Actually, it might not be the beneficiary/executor/etc, it is who you want to be a "power of attorney" while alive, because upon death all of the authorized signer/poa's but it still holds true..
I think I may have missed something here. Why wouldn’t you want the POA (while alive) to also be the Exector (upon death)? I am named as both.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by tibbitts »

SmileyFace wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:07 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:44 pm [
Actually, it might not be the beneficiary/executor/etc, it is who you want to be a "power of attorney" while alive, because upon death all of the authorized signer/poa's but it still holds true..
I think I may have missed something here. Why wouldn’t you want the POA (while alive) to also be the Exector (upon death)? I am named as both.
IANAL but I'm not sure, and that was the case with me too: PoA, trustee, executor, beneficiary...
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by Lee_WSP »

Planning for a surviving spouse is different than planning for say a disabled child which is different than planning for an adult who can take care of their own affairs.

Either way, the login should expire with death, so no, you should not be using dead people's logins.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

Lee_WSP wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:05 pm Planning for a surviving spouse is different than planning for say a disabled child which is different than planning for an adult who can take care of their own affairs.

Either way, the login should expire with death, so no, you should not be using dead people's logins.
To be clear:
In question 2 the person is not Dead. The person is the surving spouse, has named you their POA, and is asking for help to pay their bills, update beneficiaries, etc.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by Lee_WSP »

SmileyFace wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:09 pm
Lee_WSP wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:05 pm Planning for a surviving spouse is different than planning for say a disabled child which is different than planning for an adult who can take care of their own affairs.

Either way, the login should expire with death, so no, you should not be using dead people's logins.
To be clear:
In question 2 the person is not Dead. The person is the surving spouse, has named you their POA, and is asking for help to pay their bills, update beneficiaries, etc.
I did not address question two.

It's the same as if someone gives you their login and tells you to do something. I'm unaware of any case law or statutes on point for such a situation as it's never contested except when the person does something they're not supposed to.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

SmileyFace wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:07 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:44 pm [
Actually, it might not be the beneficiary/executor/etc, it is who you want to be a "power of attorney" while alive, because upon death all of the authorized signer/poa's but it still holds true..
I think I may have missed something here. Why wouldn’t you want the POA (while alive) to also be the Exector (upon death)? I am named as both.
I'm just saying, not always will your beneficiary be the POA. The POA is the POA. The Executor is the Executor.. And the Beneficiaries are the Beneficiaries..

A simple example is some people have made "lifetime" gifts to their children so that their children can use them, and are choosing to give their estate to their grandchildren (up to the GSST limit).

This would be an example where your beneficiary might not be the POA.
Earned 34 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
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Re: POA/Executor Account Access

Post by SmileyFace »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:31 pm
SmileyFace wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:07 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:44 pm [
Actually, it might not be the beneficiary/executor/etc, it is who you want to be a "power of attorney" while alive, because upon death all of the authorized signer/poa's but it still holds true..
I think I may have missed something here. Why wouldn’t you want the POA (while alive) to also be the Exector (upon death)? I am named as both.
I'm just saying, not always will your beneficiary be the POA. The POA is the POA. The Executor is the Executor.. And the Beneficiaries are the Beneficiaries..

A simple example is some people have made "lifetime" gifts to their children so that their children can use them, and are choosing to give their estate to their grandchildren (up to the GSST limit).

This would be an example where your beneficiary might not be the POA.
Got it - thanks. (You were saying they aren't necessarily the same person; not that its a bad idea if they are the same person - I read something into your statement that wasn't there)
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