Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

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camillus
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Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by camillus »

Hi all. I anticipate many well-intentioned comments along of the lines of "if you don't like it, look elsewhere." I get that. Looking for some actionable advice and mainly to gain perspective.

My hospital system has a significant staffing problem right now in many specialties but especially RNs, like me. We received a company wide email a few days ago from the CEO saying that the pay range for RN was going through a "market adjustment." On my unit at least that means the whole pay range is increasing $2.20, or 7%.

The problem is, the way they calculate this raise is the take the bottom of the pay range, add 50 cents per year licensed as an RN, and that's what you get. My wage happens to be above this amount due to experience and merit based raises due to high performance. Hence, I get no raise. My orientee gets a 7% raise, I get 0%. Past experience and merit are erased/flattened.

I went from the 45th percentile of the pay range to the 26th. Ouch, this does not feel good. Meanwhile US inflation is something like 5% this quarter.

I anticipate I'll voice disappointment with my managers, but what else can I do? I also anticipate dusting off my resume. Thanks for reading and offering wisdom & actionable advice. Has anyone heard of something like this raise scheme?
Last edited by camillus on Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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pandahouse
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by pandahouse »

I work in the software engineering group for a large hospital and they did a similar market adjustment using a very similar type of scheme for engineering pay that blindly looked at each person's total years of experience as the major factor.

The good engineers have brought up the unfairness of this to upper management but it's been deaf ears as it's drowned out by those that benefited from the "market adjustment". Those of us that joined at the high end of the pay scales received adjustments to both our pay and bonuses this year (0 raise reduced bonus to put us towards the lower median) while the lower paid had market adjustments that were significant in some cases to bring them up or past the medians (I've heard as much as 33% in extreme cases). Performance appraisals were a non-factor in this since it affected adjustments by a max 5%. It's no surprise morale for top performers are pretty low and most are leaving.

I really have no advice but I completely sympathize with you on this.
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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Devil's Advocate »

Unfortunately your only move is to find another place of employment. Or travel. You should be making premium money with this labor shortage. Hospitals near me are offering triple time for nurses on certain shifts.

Good luck!

DA
triggertreat
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by triggertreat »

This is the new norm. While Im not in the medical field I was a lead with 15 years experience in a specialized field. They started hiring at what I was making. I asked for a raise (the first time in my working career) and was reprimanded for knowing what others were making. My solution -I retired. The question about what happens to the people that worked their way up to 15.00 when /if the minimum wage is made 15.00 should be clear to all. Good luck!
Last edited by triggertreat on Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TxAg
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by TxAg »

7 or 8 years ago I heard (or read) someone say "you deserve what you accept."

I know that a quote like this is mostly fluff but it seems applicable here. Probably time to start looking or adjust your work life balance to reflect your compensation.
Zetorman
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Zetorman »

I'm in the same boat as a topped out pharmacist. My top-out bonus this year was 3% of my base. Those not topped out must have done well considering the lack of usual protest. Early recognition of how the company treated senior staff prompted me to create a robust "escape ie. retirement" plan. I'm financially ready to go now, but figure why not stay a bit longer and bank even more. A pay raise would be nice, however, a few thousand barely registers against my portfolio.

Do yourself a favor and concentrate on building a solid retirement plan. Everything else including a few bucks on the hour is secondary. Keep your eye on the prize and ignore the price. If the pay disparity becomes intolerable, then change jobs. DW is a RN and jobs are certainly plentiful for her at this point in time.
Patzer
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Patzer »

Fair or not, they aren't going to change how they applied this change, because they would have to make the change for everyone.

Instead of asking them to change how they applied their market adjustment, which would impact many people, tell your manager that you want a $2.20 merit increase, since you are now underpaid relative to your excellent performance.

This makes the ask individual and easier to act upon as a manager.
If they refuse to do anything for you, you know where you stand with them and you should move on.
If they value you at all, they will look for a compromise of some kind, i.e. maybe they offer you $1.50 starting January 1st, and you have a little back and forth from there.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Ferdinand2014
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Ferdinand2014 »

camillus wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:28 pm Hi all. I anticipate many well-intentioned comments along of the lines of "if you don't like it, look elsewhere." I get that. Looking for some actionable advice and mainly to gain perspective.

My hospital system has a significant staffing problem right now in many specialties but especially RNs, like me. We received a company wide email a few days ago from the CEO saying that the pay range for RN was going through a "market adjustment." On my unit at least that means the whole pay range is increasing $2.20, or 7%.

The problem is, the way they calculate this raise is the take the bottom of the pay range, add 50 cents per year licensed as an RN, and that's what you get. My wage happens to be above this amount due to experience and merit based raises due to high performance. Hence, I get no raise. My orientee gets a 7% raise, I get 0%. Past experience and merit are erased/flattened.

I went from the 45th percentile of the pay range to the 26th. Ouch, this does not feel good. Meanwhile US inflation is something like 5% this quarter.

I anticipate I'll voice disappointment with my managers, but what else can I do? I also anticipate dusting off my resume. Thanks for reading and offering wisdom & actionable advice. Has anyone heard of something like this raise scheme?
There are RN’s in the state I live in that are making more per hour than physicians. DW is an RN and I am a physician. Our hospital has lost almost 20% of its nursing staff to other hospitals. Our hospital is now paying $3,600 week for locum RN’s - that’s on the low end. $600 bonus plus 1.5 x for open shifts on schedule. A larger hospital about 2 hours from us is paying 84-128/hour for staff RN based on several factors as they are desperate. The average starting pay for RN in our state 1 year ago was about 28/hour. Due to Covid and staffing, there are most days zero - none - nada ICU beds in the state. We are at a small rural very low cost of living area critical access hospital. Your CEO is offering crumbs. You didn’t say if you are unionized. Union contracts often are constricted in how pay raises get executed.
“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.“ — Warren Buffett
Carguy85
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Carguy85 »

One word...leave.... they are/will be getting exactly what they deserve. You would be a fool not to take full advantage of the crazy market before it cools off. Will be interesting to see how the dust will settle.
togb
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by togb »

I can see why you're bothered. They've credited years but not performance, which really seems like a miss.

If you were just at the 46th percentile of the range, and the range was reasonable, you were not overcompensated. I'd say don't focus on whether others got something you did not-- but DO assess what your fair market worth is-- that's what you're after, a fair wage for your skills, performance and experience. Maybe you can negotiate that at your current job. If there are other things about this particular employer that makes them your first choice that's first prize.

Or, maybe you can freelance for crazy high money for a bit. Just focus on what YOU want, not what others get.
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celia
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by celia »

camillus wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:28 pm The problem is, the way they calculate this raise is the take the bottom of the pay range, add 50 cents per year licensed as an RN, and that's what you get. My wage happens to be above this amount due to experience and merit based raises due to high performance. Hence, I get no raise. My orientee gets a 7% raise, I get 0%. Past experience and merit are erased/flattened.
This sounds contradictory to me or I am missing something. If you've been licensed for 10 years, then you would get 10 times 50 cents ($5) more an hour? That is a lot more than someone who has been licensed 1 year and only got a 50 cent raise.

However, you are not alone. I have a relative who is a hospital RN. The hospital was in the process of being bought by a for-profit company, instead of their previous non-profit. The sale didn't go through until the middle of covid. Everyone had to re-apply for their own job. Those with the most experience weren't re-hired and the others were set back to a lower pay grade. All the ICU nurses left and several floor nurses volunteered to be trained in ICU (for higher pay, but not as much as the experienced ICUs), leaving the floors understaffed too.

Camillus, At least you didn't lose any money, like my relative did. Their resume was updated for the new employer and is now circulating.
toofache32
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by toofache32 »

camillus wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:28 pm Hi all. I anticipate many well-intentioned comments along of the lines of "if you don't like it, look elsewhere." I get that. Looking for some actionable advice and mainly to gain perspective.

My hospital system has a significant staffing problem right now in many specialties but especially RNs, like me. We received a company wide email a few days ago from the CEO saying that the pay range for RN was going through a "market adjustment." On my unit at least that means the whole pay range is increasing $2.20, or 7%.

The problem is, the way they calculate this raise is the take the bottom of the pay range, add 50 cents per year licensed as an RN, and that's what you get. My wage happens to be above this amount due to experience and merit based raises due to high performance. Hence, I get no raise. My orientee gets a 7% raise, I get 0%. Past experience and merit are erased/flattened.

I went from the 45th percentile of the pay range to the 26th. Ouch, this does not feel good. Meanwhile US inflation is something like 5% this quarter.

I anticipate I'll voice disappointment with my managers, but what else can I do? I also anticipate dusting off my resume. Thanks for reading and offering wisdom & actionable advice. Has anyone heard of something like this raise scheme?
The market adjustment is to get warm bodies in at the entry level. They are not looking for seasoned employees. This does not apply to you.
fsrph
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by fsrph »

Other than asking for a raise, unfortunately I'm not sure there's anything more you can do. They did a market adjustment for your pay grade which worked out no pay increase for you (and other long term nurses). What does that tell you? They're increasing the starting rate for new nurses to attract them to the hospital. They don't care in the least if long term employees feel slighted by their adjustment.

Believe me I know what you're going thru. In the hospital where I work they lost many, many nurses, especially in the critical care units. So, now they have dozens of traveling/agency nurses making top dollar. One of these traveling nurses told me she makes over $1000 for an 8 hour shift. My point is hospitals have plenty of resources to pay employees and what they did to you was unfortunate. I wish you the best in resolving your issue.

Francis
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get." | Dale Carnegie
toofache32
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by toofache32 »

Also, welcome to the new world. This is not much different than how doctors are being replaced with lesser experienced staff. Such as nurses.
Carguy85
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Carguy85 »

fsrph wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:26 pm One of these traveling nurses told me she makes over $1000 for an 8 hour shift.
Yep sounds bout right for the going rate around here even in my LCOL area
4nursebee
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by 4nursebee »

Very unfair.
Been there, a few times.
Vote with your feet.
Switching RN jobs has been the way to get increase pay for nurses, not sure how well it works for highly experienced.

I don’t think society adequately values experience.
tenkuky
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by tenkuky »

toofache32 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:28 pm Also, welcome to the new world. This is not much different than how doctors are being replaced with lesser experienced staff. Such as nurses.
Maybe you meant NPs and PAs.
Unlikely nurses are taking over physicians’ scope of practice.
Shallowpockets
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Shallowpockets »

RN here, retired. Your notes on the pay is par for the course, although I fail to see how management has been blind to what is happening now in the world of today. Then again, those people are par for the course.
First you should stop being a preceptor to new RNs. Back off from all extracurricular, such as teaching ACLS, or any other orientation activities. Go into just do my job mode.
Gets some breathing space.
Then, as others have said, look around for a new job. Ask up front how much they pay. A direct question and one which I have asked, over the phone, so as to not waste my time or theirs.
Administration has decided on the increase in pay in response to the market, but they have not done enough. They will continue in that vein and then complain when almost all their staff are travelers or pool RNs. They will pay those people better with some sort of twisted economic logic by the bean counters, even though it means the budget is higher than if they had paid you more.
Staff retention is a byword that is only a phrase from the mouth and not any real commitment to their experienced staff who have been around for a time.
Administration banks on your loyalty as an RN to your fellow workers and to the profession of nursing. This is exploitation of your altruism.
Seems like you have some choices to make. RNs are in the catbird seat now and you should realize that and make your moves accordingly. Chances are you could switch jobs and be working within a week somewhere else.
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alpenglow
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by alpenglow »

Preface: I don't know anything about nursing, so ignore me if I don't know what I'm talking about.

If travel nursing is a possibility for you, there seem to be tremendous opportunities out there.

https://www.fastaff.com/travel-nursing-jobs
epargnant
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by epargnant »

celia wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:54 pm
camillus wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:28 pm The problem is, the way they calculate this raise is the take the bottom of the pay range, add 50 cents per year licensed as an RN, and that's what you get. My wage happens to be above this amount due to experience and merit based raises due to high performance. Hence, I get no raise. My orientee gets a 7% raise, I get 0%. Past experience and merit are erased/flattened.
This sounds contradictory to me or I am missing something. If you've been licensed for 10 years, then you would get 10 times 50 cents ($5) more an hour? That is a lot more than someone who has been licensed 1 year and only got a 50 cent raise.

However, you are not alone. I have a relative who is a hospital RN. The hospital was in the process of being bought by a for-profit company, instead of their previous non-profit. The sale didn't go through until the middle of covid. Everyone had to re-apply for their own job. Those with the most experience weren't re-hired and the others were set back to a lower pay grade. All the ICU nurses left and several floor nurses volunteered to be trained in ICU (for higher pay, but not as much as the experienced ICUs), leaving the floors understaffed too.

Camillus, At least you didn't lose any money, like my relative did. Their resume was updated for the new employer and is now circulating.
From what I understand OP does not get a raise, because they add the raise to the bottom pay range, and OP is already above that due to merit increases. So OP gets $0.
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ram
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by ram »

Hospital finances are being stressed with the influx of COVID patients which has led to cancellation of the more profitable surgical cases.

As such most health care raises are being decided not based on what one deserves but what is affordable.

A local hospital has decided to give no raises for employees making more than 125K/yr.

On percentage basis medical assistants (MAs) got the most raises. At one point in our local markets Target was offering a better salary than the old MA salary and so the hospital had to increase it substantially (in percentage terms).

Hospitals are not getting reimbursed fairly for COVID care and so I expect these practices to persist. Further discussion on the underlying cause will become political and result in blocking of this thread.
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ram
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by ram »

double post
SconnieBro
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by SconnieBro »

Carguy85 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:33 pm
fsrph wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:26 pm One of these traveling nurses told me she makes over $1000 for an 8 hour shift.
Yep sounds bout right for the going rate around here even in my LCOL area
Keep in mind travelers don't get insurance or benefits. So yes, they are making more per hour than a staff nurse, but the total cost to the employer/hospital is comparable. Insurance and benefits are expensive.

Also, travelers are treated horribly by many staff nurses and in certain situations are constantly given the worst patients, most cases, etc. It's not all roses and kittens like staff RNs make it seem.

Source: I've been in healthcare sales for 10+ years working with nurses at different hospitals every week. My wife is an RN who has years of both travel and staff experience at a handful of states across the country.
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NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

triggertreat wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:50 pm was reprimanded for knowing what others were making.
That's illegal.

https://jacksonspencerlaw.com/salary-discussions/
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celia
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by celia »

NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:23 am
triggertreat wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:50 pm was reprimanded for knowing what others were making.
That's illegal.

https://jacksonspencerlaw.com/salary-discussions/
And, in fact, many states post the salary of public employees online, such as here.
toofache32
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by toofache32 »

tenkuky wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:50 am
toofache32 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:28 pm Also, welcome to the new world. This is not much different than how doctors are being replaced with lesser experienced staff. Such as nurses.
Maybe you meant NPs and PAs.
Unlikely nurses are taking over physicians’ scope of practice.
Yes, NPs are nurses.
triggertreat
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by triggertreat »

NewMoneyMustBeSmart wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:23 am
triggertreat wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:50 pm was reprimanded for knowing what others were making.
That's illegal.

https://jacksonspencerlaw.com/salary-discussions/
All water under the bridge. But thanks for the link.
Last edited by triggertreat on Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RXfiles
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by RXfiles »

SconnieBro wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:09 am
Carguy85 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:33 pm
fsrph wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:26 pm One of these traveling nurses told me she makes over $1000 for an 8 hour shift.
Yep sounds bout right for the going rate around here even in my LCOL area
Keep in mind travelers don't get insurance or benefits. So yes, they are making more per hour than a staff nurse, but the total cost to the employer/hospital is comparable. Insurance and benefits are expensive
Not 3x expensive. Travel nurses are making 90-100 dollars an hr at my hospital and staff making 25-30. If we don't take benefits we get a 15% pay increase so imagine benefits cost around 15%. Not 300%.
InMyDreams
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by InMyDreams »

Yeah, I think my hospital system did something similar to this coming out of the Great Recession. As a result of their pay changes, they suddenly had a bunch of positions to fill, as their experienced RNs went to competitors for better wage plus sign on bonus.

That said - I'm not sure that management is willing to recognize the need for experienced RNs. Hmm, that was part of the discussion at the time.

Oh - and - management did come up with a mid-year raise, I've forgotten how it was applied (i.e, across the board, or based on years of service).
nydoc
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by nydoc »

This is a big problem in healthcare. No one cares about quality and performance. If you have excellent skills you are still at the mercy of hospitals and insurance companies who decide the pay. Very difficult to get a better salary based on your performance. Only volume matters which leads to burn out and sadly patients are mostly in the dark about the quality.
Zetorman
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Zetorman »

nydoc wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:32 pm This is a big problem in healthcare. No one cares about quality and performance. If you have excellent skills you are still at the mercy of hospitals and insurance companies who decide the pay. Very difficult to get a better salary based on your performance. Only volume matters which leads to burn out and sadly patients are mostly in the dark about the quality.
I refer to our "health system" as the Walmart model. Walmart.."Yes, we have an excellent tire guy." In actuality, the "tire guy" was just hired yesterday and his only experience with tires was riding on them to get to work. Healthcare doesn't give two cr*ps about the experience. Administration wants a cheap, young, and most importantly, unopinionated workforce.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by JoeRetire »

camillus wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:28 pm I anticipate I'll voice disappointment with my managers, but what else can I do?
If you are in a union, you can complain to your rep.

Other than that, you can voice your displeasure and hope for the best, or leave and go somewhere that pays more. There's not much else to be done.

I'm not sure I understand what is "unfair". You indicated that there is a staffing problem, and this move appears designed to attract workers. If that happens, the hospital has solved its problem. If not, they'll have to try something else. Giving you more wouldn't seem to solve their staffing problem. And someone else getting more doesn't mean you are getting less, since you are apparently already earning more than the "market adjusted" amount.

Would you feel it was unfair if they paid a signing bonus to new hires (where you would get no bonus)?
Meanwhile US inflation is something like 5% this quarter.
Are you not expecting to get an annual increase, whenever that normally occurs in your hospital? Wouldn't you expect that to make up for inflation?
Last edited by JoeRetire on Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nydoc
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by nydoc »

I will advice to change your job. If you remember any good physician who is at a higher level in administration at some other hospital try to contact them. And try to leave this profession as soon you could. Healthcare is the only profession where three most important components- patient, nurse and doctor are all frustrated and hopeless.
Rex66
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Rex66 »

If you are not willing go at least threats to leave then expect no change. Most likely you need to really see if other places will pay you more.
toofache32
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by toofache32 »

nydoc wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:32 pm This is a big problem in healthcare. No one cares about quality and performance. If you have excellent skills you are still at the mercy of hospitals and insurance companies who decide the pay. Very difficult to get a better salary based on your performance. Only volume matters which leads to burn out and sadly patients are mostly in the dark about the quality.
This is true in almost all areas of clinical care, not just nursing. There is not much reason to improve your skills because there is no financial incentive.
Angst
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Angst »

In the long run, longevity with a specific hospital system can be worth a lot, a real lot in variety of ways. Perhaps in the short run, consider going PRN with your current employer to maintain ties and avoid burning bridges while adding "travel" work with another local employer.
lazynovice
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by lazynovice »

We don’t know how the range worked before. Some hospitals start new grads at market and move them through the range quickly and other hospitals move them more slowly. The question is whether each person in the range is paid at market for their years of experience. Your orientee may have been much further below the market than you were.

The only way for you to test this is to look for a similar job and find out what you can get in the market. Not a traveler role that will be temporarily high due to the current climate. Beware the big sign on bonus- not saying do not take it- but pay attention to the base.

You’ll have to see if the raise at another place is worth the loss of any unvested 401(k) match, PTO seniority (will you go back to two weeks instead of four as a new hire?), change in EHR, change in health insurance at end of year now that you’ve met your deductible, change in commute, etc.

There really has not been a better time to look for a job as an RN, but changing jobs comes with a few headaches. In many big cities you can become a traveler at greatly inflated rates and you’ll be able to go back to your old job or one just like it when things settle down.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
ScubaHogg
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by ScubaHogg »

This reminds me of a Clint Eastwood line from Unforgiven

“Deserve’s got nothing to do with it”
“The purpose of the margin of safety is to render the forecast unnecessary.” - Ben Graham
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willthrill81
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by willthrill81 »

TxAg wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:51 pm 7 or 8 years ago I heard (or read) someone say "you deserve what you accept."
It's sad but true.
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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camillus
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by camillus »

I surely do appreciate everyone’s thoughts.

First, some additional information:
-my hospital is currently paying 100% incentive for any extra shifts
-I have unfortunately not been able to take advantage of this due to a working spouse and young kids
-there may be “retention bonus contracts” coming in “a few weeks” for those at the top of the pay scale.

My current plan:
-voice displeasure with management at a lack of raise
-after a few weeks of seeing what happens I plan to switch to PRN, but pick up extra shifts (my old schedule!) at 100% incentive.
-before and while PRN, exploring other professional options.

I think the thing I have to get over is being “disloyal” and “unpleasant” with my friends at work and unit leadership.
51% US / 34% ex-US / 15% “bond”
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willthrill81
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by willthrill81 »

camillus wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:08 pm I think the thing I have to get over is being “disloyal” and “unpleasant” with my friends at work and unit leadership.
I think that we should always be as friendly as possible to those around us, but I'm not sure how often 'loyalty' should apply to an employee's relationship with an employer. In my mind and according to at least some definitions, being loyal to someone means that you will stick with them even if doing so is disadvantageous to yourself (i.e., you're willing to make a real sacrifice on their behalf). I'm not sure that it's in the employees' best interests to have such a relationship with their employer. Will that kind of commitment really be rewarded appropriately by the employer? That doesn't mean that you don't do the best that you can for your employer, but you expect to be paid commensurately with your work. If you aren't, they need to step up or you should be willing to step out.
“Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
tashnewbie
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by tashnewbie »

camillus wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:08 pm My current plan:
-voice displeasure with management at a lack of raise
Ask directly for whatever raise you want. That gives management something actionable to do and doesn't leave them guessing how much money it would take to satisfy you. If they don't respond the way you want, then you have a clearer picture of where you stand and how things will operate there. You can take that information and plan accordingly.
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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Devil's Advocate »


I think the thing I have to get over is being “disloyal” and “unpleasant” with my friends at work and unit leadership.
I have seen this mindset with nurses over the years. They accept what they get. Grumbling amongst themselves. Complacency and staying comfortable with their situation. The hospital system is not loyal to their employees and often taking advantage of them. Pay freezes, poor working conditions. And many still stay.

Vote with your feet and find the right job for you. Good luck!!

DA
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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Devil's Advocate »

nydoc wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:21 pm I will advice to change your job. If you remember any good physician who is at a higher level in administration at some other hospital try to contact them. And try to leave this profession as soon you could. Healthcare is the only profession where three most important components- patient, nurse and doctor are all frustrated and hopeless.
It's getting so bad.
Arabesque
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by Arabesque »

Today, at the prompting of a friend, I looked at the payroll of my state institution. It is always available for viewing, but I rarely look because so much is just unfair. People who are drones sometimes make more than brilliant hard workers. Chance, sycophants, coincidence, they all add up to some strange distributions of wealth.

I am sorry this is happening to you. You are not alone.
stoptothink
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by stoptothink »

Arabesque wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:21 pm Today, at the prompting of a friend, I looked at the payroll of my state institution. It is always available for viewing, but I rarely look because so much is just unfair. People who are drones sometimes make more than brilliant hard workers. Chance, sycophants, coincidence, they all add up to some strange distributions of wealth.

I am sorry this is happening to you. You are not alone.
While we are cheering the significant changes that are occurring in pay for low-skill, entry-level jobs and for new employees, it's clear that this is actually hurting existing employees and "average income" earners. Really, the only thing you can do is start the job search yourself. It's the weirdest job market in my lifetime.
FENDERSTRYKER75
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by FENDERSTRYKER75 »

Hello OP,

I am a nurse as well-done a little bit of everything over the course of 13 years-Cardiology, ED, ICU, flights, etc. I have worked for a handful of different hospitals, and unfortunately your post is nothing new. Healthcare is about money/business and patient care second. While I typically listen to the other Bogleheads, I'm inclined to tell you not to ask for a raise, because you're not going to like the answer. Of course, I'm only speaking personally of what I have listened managers and directors tell me about the minimal raise. I'm not sure where your located, but where I live there are at least 6 nursing schools within a 60 mile radius that always has nurses graduating. Hospitals don't care about quality, they care about paying the minimum to a new grad once you leave.

I also understand your feelings of guilt and wanting to be loyal to your organization. I am similar in that manner. There have been many times, that I have considered leaving, but complacent, fear of the unknown, etc. It is only now that I'm finally resetting my mentality and considering leaving.

If I were you, dust off the resume and start looking for another job (organization or even traveling). I'm actually strongly considering the travel nursing route. I've heard of nurses making anywhere from 4500-6800/week. I never considered traveling for a variety of reasons. I know one poster replied stating things like travel agencies don't offer benefits or facilities are horrible to travelers. The little bit that I've researched, most of the travel agencies offer benefits (dental, vision, health, 401k, HSA, etc.) The biggest kicker (again depending on agency), is you can't go more than 23 days without an assignment in order to keep the benefits. While yes, I have heard horror stories of facilities treating travelers badly since you're making more money than their staff. I will say that I have worked with travelers currently over the last 2 years and we have treated them great. We've even asked them to sign on permanently because of their skill set. Point being, no one has a crystal ball-if you would get a bad assignment, you could try to get out early or do your time and then know that that's a place you'll never go back to. I have heard more "good stories" of traveling than bad ones. I wish you the best of luck, keep your head up. If you would like to discuss more; feel free to direct message me.
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cockersx3
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by cockersx3 »

nydoc wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:32 pm This is a big problem in healthcare. No one cares about quality and performance. If you have excellent skills you are still at the mercy of hospitals and insurance companies who decide the pay. Very difficult to get a better salary based on your performance. Only volume matters which leads to burn out and sadly patients are mostly in the dark about the quality.
Just want to point out that this is a problem everywhere, not just in healthcare. I see plenty of companies laying off experienced engineers so they can replace them with cheap, compliant new grads. It's a great way to save money in the very short term. And the first-line managers that are making these dumb hiring decisions don't have to worry about the long term, since they'll be onto their next job / promotion at that point - so the quality and performance issues become someone else's problem.

I personally see this as one of the reasons my prior employer is forcing everyone to return to the office, despite the absence of a real need to do so. They are hoping for the "great resignation" to happen to their older & more expensive workers to whom they don't have to pay severance, since they can replace them with that sweet, sweet cheap new-grad labor and save some money in the short term.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by JoeRetire »

cockersx3 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:09 am
nydoc wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:32 pm This is a big problem in healthcare. No one cares about quality and performance. If you have excellent skills you are still at the mercy of hospitals and insurance companies who decide the pay. Very difficult to get a better salary based on your performance. Only volume matters which leads to burn out and sadly patients are mostly in the dark about the quality.
Just want to point out that this is a problem everywhere, not just in healthcare. I see plenty of companies laying off experienced engineers so they can replace them with cheap, compliant new grads. It's a great way to save money in the very short term. And the first-line managers that are making these dumb hiring decisions don't have to worry about the long term, since they'll be onto their next job / promotion at that point - so the quality and performance issues become someone else's problem.

I personally see this as one of the reasons my prior employer is forcing everyone to return to the office, despite the absence of a real need to do so. They are hoping for the "great resignation" to happen to their older & more expensive workers to whom they don't have to pay severance, since they can replace them with that sweet, sweet cheap new-grad labor and save some money in the short term.
Interesting. In my part of the world, there is a severe shortage of labor. Nobody is looking to "replace" anyone. Rather they are trying hard (through advertising, bonuses, pay rate increases, etc) to attract new workers.

I have not heard of any layoffs at all.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
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cockersx3
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Re: Hospital RN: pay range increase applied unfairly?

Post by cockersx3 »

JoeRetire wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:23 am
cockersx3 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:09 am
nydoc wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:32 pm This is a big problem in healthcare. No one cares about quality and performance. If you have excellent skills you are still at the mercy of hospitals and insurance companies who decide the pay. Very difficult to get a better salary based on your performance. Only volume matters which leads to burn out and sadly patients are mostly in the dark about the quality.
Just want to point out that this is a problem everywhere, not just in healthcare. I see plenty of companies laying off experienced engineers so they can replace them with cheap, compliant new grads. It's a great way to save money in the very short term. And the first-line managers that are making these dumb hiring decisions don't have to worry about the long term, since they'll be onto their next job / promotion at that point - so the quality and performance issues become someone else's problem.

I personally see this as one of the reasons my prior employer is forcing everyone to return to the office, despite the absence of a real need to do so. They are hoping for the "great resignation" to happen to their older & more expensive workers to whom they don't have to pay severance, since they can replace them with that sweet, sweet cheap new-grad labor and save some money in the short term.
Interesting. In my part of the world, there is a severe shortage of labor. Nobody is looking to "replace" anyone. Rather they are trying hard (through advertising, bonuses, pay rate increases, etc) to attract new workers.

I have not heard of any layoffs at all.
In my industry (but not my company, unfortunately) I am also seeing the push to recruit new people as well. However, the focus of these recruiting efforts appears to be early or mid-career staff - not seeing much recruiting efforts, job postings, etc for older (say >=40 year old) staff.

As far as my recent employer goes - yeah, this is what I'm seeing. Experienced people leaving (either retiring or going part time), and the positions are being backfilled with more junior staff. I wouldn't be surprised if these new junior staff were making more than other hires with similar experience received in the past, but still far lower than the staff they are replacing. So, still good in the short term, but I don't think it will end well...
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