Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

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Topic Author
deanmoriarty
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Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by deanmoriarty »

Hello Bogleheads,

Last time I posted about my work situation I was in a very dark place: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=313541

Since then, I am happy to say I survived. It never got easier, but I learned how to cope with the stress, set expectations with the business and just accept the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends.

I got paid my full bonus for 2020 in March 2021, and after my one year anniversary I started looking around for new opportunities.

I managed to get in touch with a well known FAANG company and interviewed for what I think would be a good position. I negotiated significantly and used my current compensation as leverage, and this is my new offer:

- Signon: $40k
- Salary: $290k
- Yearly target bonus: 25% of salary
- Equity: $2.3M RSU over 4 years, with vesting schedule 30% 30% 20% 20%

This is my current compensation (at a hedge fund working on tech):

- Salary: $300k
- Performance bonus: ~$800k (paid in March of the following year as a single payment as long as one is not under notice on the payment day)

Given the way my current compensation is structured, if I leave before March 2022 I will forfeit the entire bonus earned in 2021, which will amount to about $800k (the exact amount gets announced in December).

On top of this, I am obligated to repay $200k (gross amount) for an extra bonus that was given to me early in 2021, if I leave the company before the end of 2022. I actually saved the net amount in a HYSA, so I will just have to come out of pocket for the gross portion until tax time (I wish I had invested it!).

This means my effective compensation for 2021 at my current company will be just $300k (prorated by the departure date), as opposed to $300k + $200k + $800k. Frankly, with the amount of effort I put in this year, it stinks. However, there is no way the FAANG company is going to wait until I get my March payment, and subsequent notice period. They want me to start ASAP, they gave me at most a ~November start date. I already squeezed everything I could during the negotiation.

I am 100% sure I do not want to be in my current company long term, but I could still tolerate the environment until March 2022 in order to get the 2021 bonus. However, that would mean turning down this FAANG opportunity, which was not easy to come by.

This new position will do me well, it will be in a friendly environment, I will move back from finance to tech where I belong, and I will be exposed to world class technology with Internet-scale systems that will grow my experience dramatically, perhaps in the optics of one day creating my own software company. And, I will work less hours and with less stress (it’s not AMZN!).

As to why I ended up with this poor timing: I actually started engaging with the FAANG company in May, and I highly underestimated the amount of time it took to get to an offer, the process had so many steps and probably close to 30 conversations with people. Had the offer come in late May, the opportunity cost of the 2021 bonus would have been small. But now that we are talking about October as a last day of work, the impact is more significant.

I would appreciate some boglehead perspective.

My current thinking is that it might not be that insane to leave: the earlier I join the earlier I lock the FAANG RSU price for the entire grant, whose price could easily go up (or down!) 30% between here and March 2022, causing a delta of $800k in compensation anyway…

A recap of my financial situation:

- $3.5M liquid net worth, almost entirely in a 80/20 three fund portfolio.
- $4M illiquid equity in a pre IPO company (ex employer). I could liquidate at a slight discount and realize $3.xM now on the secondary market, but I will gamble this as I already sold a lot of shares over the years in secondary transactions at much lower prices, so this is the sweet spot for me on risk vs regret.
- I do not own anything outside my financial assets, and I live in a rented one bedroom apartment close to work.
- Total living expenses (excluding employer subsidized healthcare) are about $40k/y, relatively constant over the past 10 years. My spreadsheet for 2021 estimates total expenses at $39k.
- 35 years old, in a long-term relationship with no plans of getting married or kids (partner agrees, we’ve been together 5 years and these decisions are still as strong as ever)

Thanks for reading my long post!
muffins14
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by muffins14 »

Make sure the FANG company knows you’re walking away from 800k if you leave. This should be part of your negotiations. There should be room to increase your sign on bonus since you’re obviously at a senior level

If it were me and I were so frustrated at my current company, I’d just leave now. Yea you lose the 800k but your new compensation is like 950k, so it’s not terrible.

I’d rather you be happy and rich than depressed and slightly more rich
Topic Author
deanmoriarty
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by deanmoriarty »

muffins14 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:10 am Make sure the FANG company knows you’re walking away from 800k if you leave. This should be part of your negotiations. There should be room to increase your sign on bonus since you’re obviously at a senior level

If it were me and I were so frustrated at my current company, I’d just leave now. Yea you lose the 800k but your new compensation is like 950k, so it’s not terrible.

I’d rather you be happy and rich than depressed and slightly more rich
Thank you. As I mentioned earlier, I squeezed everything I could during the negotiation. I went as far as bluffing and saying I was not interested in the position anymore (that was bold!). They came back with the last final offer I shared above, and said if that wasn’t enough the process would unfortunately stop there because they couldn’t do better (the offer improved 3 times as part of the negotiations).

They know exactly what I am walking away from, I shared my current contract and calculations of comp numbers for the year.
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Rager1
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by Rager1 »

Here's another way to look at your situation:

At age 35, you should look at the "lost" bonus as a percentage of your future earnings. I suspect you'll find that bonus will be insignificant to you in the longer term.

Ed
TJat
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by TJat »

Skimming your last thread, reading this update and noting your financial situation, yes, leave now and move to FAANG. Think long term - 5 years from now, you'll be very wealthy and have worked in a much more reasonable environment. After FAANG spent so much time/money interviewing you, there is zero guarantee you will get a similar offer on a better time table. Describing your last year as starting "from a very dark place" and having "survived", is no way to voluntarily live life, regardless of short-term compensation.
flyfishers83
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by flyfishers83 »

Let's be real. You're already very wealthy and could probably never work for money again if you didn't want to. In that context, it makes sense to pursue the job that you think will make you much happier and still make 800k a year with the RSUs over the next 4 years. Do what you want. You have the financial freedom to literally do anything you want.
terran
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by terran »

You spend $40k/year and have at least $6.5M if you sell your pre-IPO stock on the secondary market. This would support $195k/year spending at a conservative 3% withdrawal rate. Or you could ignore your pre-IPO stock to let it ride and still spend $105k/year based on the remaining $3.5M. All that to say, you have WAY more money than you need, so this shouldn't be a financial decision. You should be doing exactly what you want every day regardless of the financial consequences. You definitely shouldn't be working at a job you hate even if you'll have to pay back part of a signing bonus and will lose part of a bonus, and this is ignoring the fact that you'll make a large amount of the lost income back in the other offer you're considering. So ignoring the money, what do you want to do? Of the two options you've presented the answer is pretty obvious from your post, but I'd encourage you to thing beyond those two options as well since you have exactly zero financial need to do either of them.
gogleheads.orb
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by gogleheads.orb »

Thanks for the update. I remembered your original post. I wondered what had happened to you.
Leave now and don't look back. You are making a lot of money either way and it seems like you'll never have an opportunity to spend it. Clearly work is a very large part of your life. You owe it to yourself to enjoy the work that you are doing.
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vanbogle59
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by vanbogle59 »

deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:47 am the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends.
I have 2 friends that quit FAANG for precisely these reasons. Neither was AMZN.
Frying pan, fire?

Best of luck.
Surely you have the leverage to create a work-life balance that makes you happy.
Topic Author
deanmoriarty
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by deanmoriarty »

vanbogle59 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:40 am
deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:47 am the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends.
I have 2 friends that quit FAANG for precisely these reasons. Neither was AMZN.
Frying pan, fire?

Best of luck.
Surely you have the leverage to create a work-life balance that makes you happy.
I happen to know the hiring manager from a previous life (that’s how I got a foot in the door), and I incredibly stressed the point that I am not looking to work on weekends and keep my workload to 50 hours a week and take plenty of vacations. I mentioned multiple times that better WLB was a significant reason for leaving, and that if they thought I wasn’t a good fit for the job because of this, I would totally understand.

There is no way any FAANG can be worse than the cut-throat hedge fund I am currently in!

If I get tricked this time, I can say I did all I could to prevent it!
ccompounder
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by ccompounder »

With stock appreciation, the FAANG offer could be better than your current gig. Especially if you take into account tax rates.
I would jump right away and be done with the current gig. It is not making you happy. There are reasons you interviewed and got the offers. Time to go! Good success.
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Kenkat
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by Kenkat »

You honestly have enough that you probably never need to work another day in your life if you didn’t want to. While $800k is a huge amount to leave on the table, the new job has some serious earnings potential as well.

Why be miserable in a job if you don’t really need that job? And if you perform well at the next job, my experience is that the money will come.

So do what is best for you personally; take the money out of the decision because you have the luxury of being able to do just that.
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vanbogle59
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by vanbogle59 »

deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:46 am
vanbogle59 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:40 am
deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:47 am the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends.
I have 2 friends that quit FAANG for precisely these reasons. Neither was AMZN.
Frying pan, fire?

Best of luck.
Surely you have the leverage to create a work-life balance that makes you happy.
I happen to know the hiring manager from a previous life (that’s how I got a foot in the door), and I incredibly stressed the point that I am not looking to work on weekends and keep my workload to 50 hours a week and take plenty of vacations. I mentioned multiple times that better WLB was a significant reason for leaving, and that if they thought I wasn’t a good fit for the job because of this, I would totally understand.

There is no way any FAANG can be worse than the cut-throat hedge fund I am currently in!

If I get tricked this time, I can say I did all I could to prevent it!
I never travelled in such high-salaried circles.
Even so, I had a number of instances in my career when Megacorp wanted more than I wanted to give.
As the sole earner in a family of 5, I had certain obligations and limitations that made those times horrible.

Then I crossed the threshold where I had enough $ and other security that my "limits" grew teeth.
Changed many things for me, actually. Personal, professional, family....

I get the impression from your posts that you already have that leverage. My advice is that you commit (to yourself and your loved ones) to using it.
You may be surprised what doors it opens.
:sharebeer
coachd50
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by coachd50 »

deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:46 am
vanbogle59 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:40 am
deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:47 am the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends.
I have 2 friends that quit FAANG for precisely these reasons. Neither was AMZN.
Frying pan, fire?

Best of luck.
Surely you have the leverage to create a work-life balance that makes you happy.
I happen to know the hiring manager from a previous life (that’s how I got a foot in the door), and I incredibly stressed the point that I am not looking to work on weekends and keep my workload to 50 hours a week and take plenty of vacations. I mentioned multiple times that better WLB was a significant reason for leaving, and that if they thought I wasn’t a good fit for the job because of this, I would totally understand.

There is no way any FAANG can be worse than the cut-throat hedge fund I am currently in!

If I get tricked this time, I can say I did all I could to prevent it!
If I remember from your other thread, one thing that popped out was the disconnect between the hedge fund's job expectations, and your ability to perform. I remember you saying they wanted deliverables on day 1, and you stated it would take 2 to 3 months of "onramping" to get you ready to perform.

I would make sure that is all worked at as well with this job.

Other than that...this is the same issue you had before. Last thread it was worrying about "relocating costs", this thread it is considerably more $$ but still the same decision process. Is the potential money lost worth leaving a position you don't enjoy.
Last edited by coachd50 on Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
rascott
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by rascott »

No brainer. Quit now and GO!
ThankYouJack
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by ThankYouJack »

What are you goals in life, both financial and non-financial?

You have plenty of $ to do almost anything you want but I think having a clear direction what you want to get out of life would help. I would take the new job. Best of luck and congrats on your success!
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Sandi_k
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by Sandi_k »

Move now.

This is a career move, not a money move. THIS is what FU money is all about - the freedom to do what you want.

Make sure to give the hedge fund folks the finger as you dance out the door. ;)
MBB_Boy
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by MBB_Boy »

Congrats on accepting a new job :D
dknightd
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by dknightd »

Doing my best to not reply. But I failed. Smile and be hoppy with what ever you decide.
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds from the market, invest the funds. Retired 9/19. Mortgage payed off 5/21. I have some 0% loans to pay off.
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vitaflo
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by vitaflo »

deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:46 am
vanbogle59 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:40 am
deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:47 am the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends.
I have 2 friends that quit FAANG for precisely these reasons. Neither was AMZN.
Frying pan, fire?

Best of luck.
Surely you have the leverage to create a work-life balance that makes you happy.
I happen to know the hiring manager from a previous life (that’s how I got a foot in the door), and I incredibly stressed the point that I am not looking to work on weekends and keep my workload to 50 hours a week and take plenty of vacations. I mentioned multiple times that better WLB was a significant reason for leaving, and that if they thought I wasn’t a good fit for the job because of this, I would totally understand.

There is no way any FAANG can be worse than the cut-throat hedge fund I am currently in!

If I get tricked this time, I can say I did all I could to prevent it!
FAANG's are not known for good WLB. It's partly why the pay is so ridiculous. That said, everything is relative and compared to your current gig the new job will probably feel like a walk in the park.

Given you've gone thru rounds of negotiation and they know where you're coming from (no surprises on your end), I'd leave your current gig tomorrow and never look back. If all you're thinking about is money you're going to make bad choices. And I'm not even sure this is really taking a pay cut when you consider your hourly rate for time worked.
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ILikeChips
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by ILikeChips »

IMHO:

It would be insane not to leave your current job for this offer. Take the job. Life's too short to spend it being miserable.

Remember this: you will get more RSU's each year as well, so after a few years you'll have 4 tranches of RSU's each vesting at 20 - 30 % each. In other words, a total of 100 % ish every year. The 800k will be left in the dust. You'll never look back.

Fortune favors a prepared mind.
OnTrack2020
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by OnTrack2020 »

....the process had so many steps and close to 30 conversations with people---why do people put themselves through this? Seriously, trying to understand.

You have more than enough to retire today or do whatever you want today, including taking the new position. Money is not the issue.
Normchad
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by Normchad »

dknightd wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:24 am Doing my best to not reply. But I failed. Smile and be hoppy with what ever you decide.
My head is spinning here. I hope the best for OP. He is clearly miserable and needs to make a change of done sort.

On the other hand, I think I need to go work for a well known FAANG company…..
tj
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by tj »

- Signon: $40k
- Salary: $290k
- Yearly target bonus: 25% of salary
- Equity: $2.3M RSU over 4 years, with vesting schedule 30% 30% 20% 20%
This is mind blowing to me. Why would anyone ever pay this much? It sounds like it's not even a management position.

This is more $$$ than some people make in a lifetime.
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Watty
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by Watty »

It would good to look at your numbers in after tax figures since a lot of any additional income you might get would just go to pay taxes.

I do not know your company but you also need to keep in mind that a bonus is not guaranteed and there is a non-zero chance that they will not pay all the bonus next year. Your current company is also not stupid and they know that you are unhappy so there is also a non-zero chance that they will lay you off before the bonus is paid.
deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:47 am This new position will do me well, it will be in a friendly environment, I will move back from finance to tech where I belong, and I will be exposed to world class technology with Internet-scale systems that will grow my experience dramatically, perhaps in the optics of one day creating my own software company. And, I will work less hours and with less stress (it’s not AMZN!).
You actually have three choices.
1) Stay where you are.
2) Take the job.
3) Retire, and you have more than enough to do that.

My impression is that you are not retiring because you are still excited about your career so moving would be an easy choice to me since you working now is not so much about the money but it is about you doing what you want to do.

Moneywise it is also could be a good choice as well. It sounds like there is little chance that you would want to stay at your current job after you get your next bonus, but if you stay until then you may get burnt out and retire or you may not be able to find another job offer nearly as good as this one.
oilrig
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by oilrig »

tj wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:53 am
- Signon: $40k
- Salary: $290k
- Yearly target bonus: 25% of salary
- Equity: $2.3M RSU over 4 years, with vesting schedule 30% 30% 20% 20%
This is mind blowing to me. Why would anyone ever pay this much? It sounds like it's not even a management position.

This is more $$$ than some people make in a lifetime.
Welcome TJ, are you new here lol? FAANG are known for paying these high salaries due to: High cost of living, shortage of good engineers/developers, the value these employees bring, poor WLB, and mainly because they can and they basically print money lol.
Topic Author
deanmoriarty
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by deanmoriarty »

tj wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:53 am
- Signon: $40k
- Salary: $290k
- Yearly target bonus: 25% of salary
- Equity: $2.3M RSU over 4 years, with vesting schedule 30% 30% 20% 20%
This is mind blowing to me. Why would anyone ever pay this much? It sounds like it's not even a management position.

This is more $$$ than some people make in a lifetime.
I do not control the job market so I just take whatever I can take rather than answering “why”, but FYI the position is a technical leadership role with a few direct reports.
Last edited by deanmoriarty on Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
tj
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by tj »

oilrig wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:05 am
tj wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:53 am
- Signon: $40k
- Salary: $290k
- Yearly target bonus: 25% of salary
- Equity: $2.3M RSU over 4 years, with vesting schedule 30% 30% 20% 20%
This is mind blowing to me. Why would anyone ever pay this much? It sounds like it's not even a management position.

This is more $$$ than some people make in a lifetime.
Welcome TJ, are you new here lol? FAANG are known for paying these high salaries due to: High cost of living, shortage of good engineers/developers, the value these employees bring, poor WLB, and mainly because they can and they basically print money lol.
But OP wants to change jobs because they want better WLB. What gives? lol
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vanbogle59
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by vanbogle59 »

tj wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:53 am This is mind blowing to me. Why would anyone ever pay this much? It sounds like it's not even a management position.
I've never climbed into the IT stratosphere. But I have spent ~25 years in IT.
Long gone are the days when "management" is automatically worth more than individual contributors.
And, may I add, thank gawd for that. :beer

Since somewhere around Y2K, as a technician, my salary has been higher than my "manager" about half the time.
And I'm not atypical at all.
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deanmoriarty
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by deanmoriarty »

tj wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:09 am
oilrig wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:05 am
tj wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:53 am
- Signon: $40k
- Salary: $290k
- Yearly target bonus: 25% of salary
- Equity: $2.3M RSU over 4 years, with vesting schedule 30% 30% 20% 20%
This is mind blowing to me. Why would anyone ever pay this much? It sounds like it's not even a management position.

This is more $$$ than some people make in a lifetime.
Welcome TJ, are you new here lol? FAANG are known for paying these high salaries due to: High cost of living, shortage of good engineers/developers, the value these employees bring, poor WLB, and mainly because they can and they basically print money lol.
But OP wants to change jobs because they want better WLB. What gives? lol
I am estimating my workload to change from 70-80h a week (including a constant and expected 5-10h every weekend) to a 50-55h workload, strictly on weekdays.
tj
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by tj »

deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:11 am
tj wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:09 am
oilrig wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:05 am
tj wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:53 am
- Signon: $40k
- Salary: $290k
- Yearly target bonus: 25% of salary
- Equity: $2.3M RSU over 4 years, with vesting schedule 30% 30% 20% 20%
This is mind blowing to me. Why would anyone ever pay this much? It sounds like it's not even a management position.

This is more $$$ than some people make in a lifetime.
Welcome TJ, are you new here lol? FAANG are known for paying these high salaries due to: High cost of living, shortage of good engineers/developers, the value these employees bring, poor WLB, and mainly because they can and they basically print money lol.
But OP wants to change jobs because they want better WLB. What gives? lol
I am estimating my workload to change from 70-80h a week (including a constant and expected 5-10h every weekend) to a 50-55h workload, strictly on weekdays.

Ugh that's still a lot of working. Regardless, if you hate your job, and your hourly rate isn't really changing at all, why aren't you running to the new job?
dknightd
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by dknightd »

I would probably die soon if I had to work those hours year after year.
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds from the market, invest the funds. Retired 9/19. Mortgage payed off 5/21. I have some 0% loans to pay off.
mikejuss
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by mikejuss »

Don't sweat it, OP. Leave your job now--and be excited by your new opportunity.

One small thing I wonder about in your post: is your ex-employer stock fully vested and available to you? If so, why would you be selling it on a secondary market at a discount? Or has the IPO not actually happened yet?
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by TomatoTomahto »

OP, enjoy your new job.

I have various family and friends in the financially stratospheric technical business (banking, hedge funds, prop shops). Some of them love their jobs and cultures, others are counting the minutes to get out. You are lucky to be able to leave.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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deanmoriarty
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by deanmoriarty »

mikejuss wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:32 am Don't sweat it, OP. Leave your job now--and be excited by your new opportunity.

One small thing I wonder about in your post: is your ex-employer stock fully vested and available to you? If so, why would you be selling it on a secondary market at a discount? Or has the IPO not actually happened yet?
The company is still pre-IPO. They are growing strong, so I periodically receive emails from private investors asking to buy my shares at ~70-80% of the preferred price. But it could still certainly all go to $0 until it’s all liquid and converted to VTI.
mikejuss
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by mikejuss »

deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:53 am
mikejuss wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:32 am Don't sweat it, OP. Leave your job now--and be excited by your new opportunity.

One small thing I wonder about in your post: is your ex-employer stock fully vested and available to you? If so, why would you be selling it on a secondary market at a discount? Or has the IPO not actually happened yet?
The company is still pre-IPO. They are growing strong, so I periodically receive emails from private investors asking to buy my shares at ~70-80% of the preferred price. But it could still certainly all go to $0 until it’s all liquid and converted to VTI.
Oh--I guess I misunderstood your post. I hope, post-IPO, that you sell every penny of the stock. Bogleheads don't believe in holding individual stocks.

Anyway, you're crushing it. Congrats.
SalishSea
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by SalishSea »

I don't think I'll be adding anything new or noteworthy, but it may be helpful to hear another voice nonetheless.

On the one hand, you're 2021 compensation would be 300k (prorated), and you'd be foregoing an additional $1M. That's a HUGE amount of money, and many people in the US will never earn that much in a decade, let alone a year. In that regard you're obviously both a valuable employee and, I hope you don't mind me saying, probably somewhat lucky. On the other hand, you're earning that level of compensation working both a job and hours that are clearly not good for you ("It never got easier, but I learned how to cope with the stress, set expectations with the business and just accept the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends").

You now have an opportunity to return to a work culture that seems like it will fit your current, and potentially future goals, much better. Furthermore, it' seems unlikely that this great opportunity will wait. And although you're sacrificing a tremendous amount of money, you're lucky to be in a position where you have BOTH substantial savings / net worth AND tremendous human capital going forward.

With the above being said, it seems like going to the FAANG company, and working again in tech, is a relative easy decision. You still make a very good salary, plus bonus and RSU. Additionally, you're future job prospects may also be better working at the FAANG company than your current job, at least based on what I can infer from what you've stated.

In different financial circumstances I don't think that this would be an easy decision at all, but in your case I think that it actually may be.
bogledogle
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by bogledogle »

Here's the action plan:

1) Tell Fang you will join in November
2) Stop working, deliver maybe 5 or 10% of your work at Hedgefund
3) Hope to get fired so you don't need to pay back 200k
4) Profit
Dyloot
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by Dyloot »

Glad to hear you made it to the other side in one piece. Your initial thread was definitely memorable and I was happy to see you post an update.

Wish you all the luck and success in your new role.
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cchrissyy
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by cchrissyy »

congrats!
you clearly have valuable skills and options - the only mistake i can see would be sacrificing your quality of life for incrementally more money.
you have "enough", the new offer is "enough", and i hope you resign, take a vacation, and start enjoying daily life a bit more with the job in november.
systemr
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by systemr »

based on the vesting structure being front loaded it and how long it took it sounds like Google? I assume you have finished team match at this point

Google offers are technically good for a year and you won't have to interview and go through HC again but will potentially need to team match again. Communicate your situation re: bonus and again ask to delay start date or see if they can compensate you for your bonus, jan is when most FAANG payout so they'll be aware of this and stretching to march might be doable
gogreen
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by gogreen »

deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:47 am
Since then, I am happy to say I survived. It never got easier, but I learned how to cope with the stress, set expectations with the business and just accept the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends.

I managed to get in touch with a well known FAANG company
So you are being squeezed out 100hrs per week by some company and now want to switch to FAANG? Well, what can go wrong with this plan :mrgreen:
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LilyFleur
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by LilyFleur »

Go for it! :sharebeer
knowledge
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by knowledge »

You don't need the money, so the decision won't impact your financial future much, if at all. As a side note, you should consider picking up some expensive hobbies, else what exactly are you going to do with this money?

Re: the bonus - is there a way to influence some of that money to other folks you think deserve it?
Re: the opportunity, you'll likely be able to find an equivalent offer from another tech company in 6 months time, if you really want to hang on until bonus payout.

But, it doesn't matter. The additional income won't get spent at your current rate. You shouldn't be focused on optimizing your income at this point.
pseudoiterative
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by pseudoiterative »

flyfishers83 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:26 am Let's be real. You're already very wealthy and could probably never work for money again if you didn't want to. [...] Do what you want. You have the financial freedom to literally do anything you want.
knowledge wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:08 pm You don't need the money, so the decision won't impact your financial future much, if at all. [...]The additional income won't get spent at your current rate. You shouldn't be focused on optimizing your income at this point.
Like the above two comments I'd suggest you could reflect on what your end goal is. You're already far more financially successful than the vast majority of folk will ever be, and you could safely retire immediately if you wanted to, even if your illiquid equity investments are wiped out and amount to $0. Investments and cash are merely fuel to help get you where you want to go and smooth over mishaps along the way. What's the fuel for?

If you are in an environment where you have gotten accustomed to working 100 hour weeks, it wouldn't be surprising if work has expanded to fill most of your time and energy and leave very little remaining space for hobbies or reflection on how you want to spend your few remaining decades.

Another way to think about it: switching from working 100 hours per week to 50 hours per week increases the amount of non-work waking life you get to experience each week from 12 hours to around 62 hours. That's over 400% more waking non-work life per week! What on earth would you do with all that extra life?
Dave55
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by Dave55 »

OP Money is not the issue in your life, it is the agent. Move on.

Dave
"Reality always wins, your only job is to get in touch with it." Wilfred Bion
kimura king
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by kimura king »

I remember reading the original thread and was scared for OP. Lucky for him, he has walk away money. Glad things worked out, time to leave for sure!
bltn
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by bltn »

Undoubtedly, your best opportunity seems to be taking the new job right away. If you like your work, 55 hours a week with weekends off will be no problem at your age. After 12-15 years you may reach an age where those work hours a a little hard to continue. Unless you still love your work.

I know little about technology jobs except what I read on this site and what I learn from my son in law. He is about your age, and he works for a FAANG, and got a big increase in salary upon being hired. In his first year he participated in some sort of company wide test for his level. His test results pushed him into administration, a move with with which he wasn t too pleased. His income is impressive and his RSU value has increased with the increase in stock price. He has week ends off but he works 50-60 hours a week. My daughter s job currently requires 60- 80 hours a week, including weekends, so his hours don t cause a problem. He goes through periods when he gets some satisfaction from his work and periods when he talks about finding another job. I don t know how much stress he feels at work, but his income is a compelling reason to stay. He apparently got another promotion, so his work must be well regarded up to this point. Job satisfaction can be can be a little complicated to define.

A couple of observations about your financial situation. Forty thousand dollars is a very modest annual expenditure. That will probably be a small fraction of your annual expenses in 10 years. As it should be. A final goal of a 40,000 dollar a year life is very modest, given your means. I wouldn t use my current annual expenditures as a basis to define my FI.
Also, with 3 million tied up in a single company s stock, even if you think the gamble on the stock climbing is worthwhile, would selling half now be a wise move? You ll still be heavily tied into that stock, but you will have secured 1.5 million (before taxes?). Until a stock is sold, the value can be widely variable due to unforeseen future events. I d take some money off the table, knowing nothing of the particulars. I ve unfortunately had experience with highly regarded stocks that were held until the value became a fraction of the earlier value.

Keep us updated.
carolinaman
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by carolinaman »

deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:46 am
vanbogle59 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:40 am
deanmoriarty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:47 am the endless work hours on weekdays and weekends.
I have 2 friends that quit FAANG for precisely these reasons. Neither was AMZN.
Frying pan, fire?

Best of luck.
Surely you have the leverage to create a work-life balance that makes you happy.
I happen to know the hiring manager from a previous life (that’s how I got a foot in the door), and I incredibly stressed the point that I am not looking to work on weekends and keep my workload to 50 hours a week and take plenty of vacations. I mentioned multiple times that better WLB was a significant reason for leaving, and that if they thought I wasn’t a good fit for the job because of this, I would totally understand.

There is no way any FAANG can be worse than the cut-throat hedge fund I am currently in!

If I get tricked this time, I can say I did all I could to prevent it!
Accept the new job and move on. You are leaving a lot of money on the table but you have a tremendous opportunity that will be harder to find if you wait.

My one caveat is that WLB, i.e. vacations/50 hour week, may be harder to achieve. There are levels of expectation companies have when they pay at the level you will be getting, and WLB is probably not in their equation. Best wishes. I hope it works well for you.
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deanmoriarty
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Re: Quitting job, taking a pay cut and forfeiting large bonus

Post by deanmoriarty »

I just wanted to thank everybody for the thoughtful replies and the overwhelming support. I read every single message and will keep the forum updated on my decision!
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