Breaking "Poor" Mentality

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retire2022
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by retire2022 »

broncocountry25 wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:14 pm Happy Saturday!

Any other Bogleheads grow up poor or seeing family really struggle? My mom worked three jobs and parents divorced when I was 4. When I was young I have a ton of negative memories about money. It was a source of constant stress in my families life.

Now that I have money at 31 I am actively working on becoming better at spending. I do not wish to be frugal my whole life.

What have others done to help them spend more along the journey and not over think it?

I love saving/investing and building in life but I also know we are going to be just fine down the road (already millionaires and good chance of inheritance from my wife's side later in life). I want to get better at spending some more now, what has helped others?

I have a hard time spending directly on myself, not so hard spending to take my family/friends to dinner, or pay to take a trip etc. I just need to get better on spending a bit more on myself and am working on it.

Thank You! :sharebeer
Hi

I was raised by single parent (immigrant) making 6K a year for 30 years, we lived in government housing, my parents split up when I was 8 years old. My friends (the Jones) was better off than me, they had both working parents.

A friend mother' gave me Boy Scout uniform for summer camp, because she knew we didn't have any money. I was happy she did so, my mom was pissed and proud, she didn't want any handouts.

I started working full at 26, with local government, steady pay, health benefits, job security made me look to the future, I learned about compound interest and the stock market, thanks to a professor who showed me how to read the Wall Street Journal.

Keep a budget diary of your spending, this way you are self aware what you can afford to be frugal.

Be frugal for yourself, but be generous to others, ie family and friends.

Five crashes, and approx. 600K invested 34 years later at 61, retired this year, I am a two time homeowner, and net worth 3+ million. I self manage 2.6 million portfolio.

I enjoyed life, traveled across the country 8 times, I have friends now, it wasn't so growing up. I spend what I want and I am careful with money.
staustin
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by staustin »

OP, our circumstances are similar. It is no easy thing to be raised poor and operate otherwise as an adult. i have memories of my parents at the kitchen table, mother in tears over simply not enough funds, struggling with how to manage. Our baseline mentality as adults then is one of 'scarcity' as opposed to be 'abundance'. doubtful you'll ever be able to completely change your base programming.. but, it is, and should be, completely find to spend small amounts on yourself. money is not security, it is utility. You should not have guilt on a personal expenditure, we are not those poor children any longer. Give up the guilt. the goal is to slowly change the mindset to one of gratefulness and abundance.
Somethingwitty92912
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by Somethingwitty92912 »

Happiness does not =the amount of money you spend. That’s a huge misconception for a lot of people.
Topic Author
broncocountry25
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by broncocountry25 »

staustin wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:56 am OP, our circumstances are similar. It is no easy thing to be raised poor and operate otherwise as an adult. i have memories of my parents at the kitchen table, mother in tears over simply not enough funds, struggling with how to manage. Our baseline mentality as adults then is one of 'scarcity' as opposed to be 'abundance'. doubtful you'll ever be able to completely change your base programming.. but, it is, and should be, completely find to spend small amounts on yourself. money is not security, it is utility. You should not have guilt on a personal expenditure, we are not those poor children any longer. Give up the guilt. the goal is to slowly change the mindset to one of gratefulness and abundance.
Hits home with me! My dad was bi polar and an addict. So it was a ton of ups and downs when I was little and it just gets burned into your head. I remember going through bills with my mom on the kitchen table like you are describing and counting out money to pay them. There was never enough. My grandparents live in a trailer home still today and still talk about how evil money is. There is no changing their minds in their 80's.

I think it almost is more of a therapy issue for me then spending at this point. Old enough to see that I want to improve my mentality (not necessarily just spend to spend).
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broncocountry25
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by broncocountry25 »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:53 am OP,

Are you sure that you are not "House Poor"? Many of my income peers claimed that they are frugal and they do not eat out. But, they overspent on their houses and they do not have money for anything else. Hence, they feel poor even though they spend a lot of money every year.

You are spending 6 figures per year. As long as you do not overspent on your house, you should have plenty of money to spend on everything else.

KlangFool
No not house poor. We actually have only spent (taxes not included) about 60-75K annually over the last 5 years. We are not frugal at all when it comes to eating out or vacations. Travel has always been my thing (lived in Australia at 18 for a year).

I was looking for feedback more on MY spending not so much the households. My wife doesn't overthink spending when she wants something and I am glad. Myself on the other hand I never even think about buying anything outside of the norm.
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broncocountry25
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by broncocountry25 »

retire2022 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:53 am
broncocountry25 wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:14 pm Happy Saturday!

Any other Bogleheads grow up poor or seeing family really struggle? My mom worked three jobs and parents divorced when I was 4. When I was young I have a ton of negative memories about money. It was a source of constant stress in my families life.

Now that I have money at 31 I am actively working on becoming better at spending. I do not wish to be frugal my whole life.

What have others done to help them spend more along the journey and not over think it?

I love saving/investing and building in life but I also know we are going to be just fine down the road (already millionaires and good chance of inheritance from my wife's side later in life). I want to get better at spending some more now, what has helped others?

I have a hard time spending directly on myself, not so hard spending to take my family/friends to dinner, or pay to take a trip etc. I just need to get better on spending a bit more on myself and am working on it.

Thank You! :sharebeer
Hi

I was raised by single parent (immigrant) making 6K a year for 30 years, we lived in government housing, my parents split up when I was 8 years old. My friends (the Jones) was better off than me, they had both working parents.

A friend mother' gave me Boy Scout uniform for summer camp, because she knew we didn't have any money. I was happy she did so, my mom was pissed and proud, she didn't want any handouts.

I started working full at 26, with local government, steady pay, health benefits, job security made me look to the future, I learned about compound interest and the stock market, thanks to a professor who showed me how to read the Wall Street Journal.

Keep a budget diary of your spending, this way you are self aware what you can afford to be frugal.

Be frugal for yourself, but be generous to others, ie family and friends.

Five crashes, and approx. 600K invested 34 years later at 61, retired this year, I am a two time homeowner, and net worth 3+ million. I self manage 2.6 million portfolio.

I enjoyed life, traveled across the country 8 times, I have friends now, it wasn't so growing up. I spend what I want and I am careful with money.
Congrats on your success.
Topic Author
broncocountry25
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by broncocountry25 »

free wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:04 am I can relate to your unwillingness to spend money on yourself. I wanted to share that the mental shift occurred for me when I retired. Until then I was in saving mode, and other than vacations, would save rather than spend. When I retired, I realized that the race was over, and gave myself permission to recognize where we were financially. That was my experience, but I would encourage you to start making the shift now to recognize your financial security rather than retirement, like I did.
This will most likely be me too. It is hard to spend along the way before we have hit the "goal".
retire2022
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by retire2022 »

broncocountry25 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:23 am
free wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:04 am I can relate to your unwillingness to spend money on yourself. I wanted to share that the mental shift occurred for me when I retired. Until then I was in saving mode, and other than vacations, would save rather than spend. When I retired, I realized that the race was over, and gave myself permission to recognize where we were financially. That was my experience, but I would encourage you to start making the shift now to recognize your financial security rather than retirement, like I did.
This will most likely be me too. It is hard to spend along the way before we have hit the "goal".
Hit the goal first, there will be setbacks, the market was up during the internet years and down, the down years, dollar cost average from pay check contributions, only the last 11 years my portfolio grew.

Hindsight the early contributions, made what my portfolio is today.
GenawithanE
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by GenawithanE »

Like you, I grew up with not a lot of money. Like many BHs, I am now very comfortable, retired early-ish, have plenty of $$.

What I have been struggling with is letting go and buying what I want and paying for higher value without gnashing my teeth or spending excessive energy trying to find a better deal. My perspective is that you need to change the balance between struggling to spend less and put value on your time. I enjoy finding a good deal but I need to open my money hand to get what I really want instead of convincing myself to get something less expensive. Agree with others not to have a mindset of needing to spend more - for example, my car is 12+ years old but it is comfortable and well maintained and safe so not looking to replace it yet. Value getting value for money - I have Verizon wireless even tho it’s more expensive because I get much better coverage. I read a lot but get 95% of my books from the library or free from other sources.

Think of making a spending plan that meets your particular preferences but gives you a baseline for deciding if you can afford something. When I think we are eating out too much, I compare what we have spent to my plan and that scratches my itch. If you are still working, obviously start by saving $ for retirement and emergencies and big ticket items. Decide how much to give to charity as a minimum. Look at your essential spending (housing, utilities, insurance, groceries), then see what else you have available and what makes you happy. Vacations? Jewelry? Gifts to others? Plan for it and spend without guilt. Don’t spend because “everyone has it.” Marie Kondo the heck out of your stuff - notice what doesn’t spark joy and remember that when you are shopping. As others have said, use money as a tool, don’t spend just because you can.
JackoC
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by JackoC »

sailaway wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:17 pm 1. The poor mentality is generally anti-frugal. You can't stock up because you can't buy in bulk, even if it is a great sale. You might as well spend this money while you have it, because it is just going to disappear somewhere, anyway. ...

2. Not sure why anyone would set not being frugal as a goal. Even billionaires will usually negotiate the best price for the thing that they want.
1. This is also my general thought, that the 'poor mentality' is a fatalism about not being able to change one's financial situation which leads people to spend what they have now, not save. That said I've never been poor myself (my parents were frugal, and I had to be at times as adult like saving up to go to grad school full time then doing so on those savings with wife at home w/ two small kids and only part time work).

2. Frugal can be defined broadly ('sparing or economical with regard to money') to include people who simply make a good effort to get the best prices for the things they want. But I think it's more commonly applied with implicit reference to a 'typical American (or whatever country) lifestyle', being 'sparing' relative to that. We spend a multiple of the US median income per year. I'm pretty attentive to getting best prices for *what I want* (not different, cheaper things other people say are 'just as good'). I don't think many people here would call me frugal and I don't apply the term to myself.
jaqenhghar
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by jaqenhghar »

retire2022 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:27 am
broncocountry25 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:23 am
free wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:04 am I can relate to your unwillingness to spend money on yourself. I wanted to share that the mental shift occurred for me when I retired. Until then I was in saving mode, and other than vacations, would save rather than spend. When I retired, I realized that the race was over, and gave myself permission to recognize where we were financially. That was my experience, but I would encourage you to start making the shift now to recognize your financial security rather than retirement, like I did.
This will most likely be me too. It is hard to spend along the way before we have hit the "goal".
Hit the goal first, there will be setbacks, the market was up during the internet years and down, the down years, dollar cost average from pay check contributions, only the last 11 years my portfolio grew.

Hindsight the early contributions, made what my portfolio is today.
Could you explain this line "Hindsight the early contributions, made what my portfolio is today" a bit further?
retire2022
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by retire2022 »

jaqenhghar wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:41 am
Could you explain this line "Hindsight the early contributions, made what my portfolio is today" a bit further?
see link, apologies if I was too short in explanation, the wiki is better at explaining which was my point:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Boglehe ... _and_often

Invest early and often
Main article: Importance of saving early
Watch the video

Fig.1. Returns compounded at 8% per annum
Once you establish a regular savings pattern, you can begin the process of accumulating financial wealth. How much saving is enough? Twenty percent of income is a good baseline number. If you plan to retire before age 65 or plan to leave significant assets to charity or children, you probably need to save even more.[1] The reason starting a regular savings plan early in life is important is that compounding of investment returns can be magnified over a longer period. Figure 1. demonstrates the benefit of starting early.

The best way to save money is to arrange automatic deductions from your paycheck. Many 401(k)s already provide this convenience. When you invest in an IRA or taxable account, select a fund company able to automatically deduct money from your bank account the day after pay day. This concept, described as "paying yourself first," goes a long way towards establishing and reinforcing reasonable spending habits.

There are specific guidelines for which accounts you should fund and in what order. But always remember, you first need to save the money. Saving regularly is more important than investment selection when starting this lifelong process.
SQRT
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by SQRT »

Somethingwitty92912 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:06 am Happiness does not =the amount of money you spend. That’s a huge misconception for a lot of people.
Agree. Happiness is a very complex issue. Too often it’s compared to wealth or spending. One thing that’s also true is being poor doesn’t necessarily make you happy either.
Last edited by SQRT on Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SQRT
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by SQRT »

JackoC wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:35 am
sailaway wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:17 pm

2. Not sure why anyone would set not being frugal as a goal. Even billionaires will usually negotiate the best price for the thing that they want.

2. Frugal can be defined broadly ('sparing or economical with regard to money') to include people who simply make a good effort to get the best prices for the things they want. But I think it's more commonly applied with implicit reference to a 'typical American (or whatever country) lifestyle', being 'sparing' relative to that. We spend a multiple of the US median income per year. I'm pretty attentive to getting best prices for *what I want* (not different, cheaper things other people say are 'just as good'). I don't think many people here would call me frugal and I don't apply the term to myself.
Agree. Frugal can mean different things to different people. No one would ever call me frugal, but I’m very careful to get the best value for my money. But by the same token, I don’t worry too much about immaterial amounts. Immaterial for me might be different than for other people.

I think the OP might have been using the term “frugal” in a less flattering way?
JDave
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by JDave »

I've had the same issue - grew up poor. Bailiffs were at the door once ready to evict us because parents couldn't pay the rent. I have two suggestions: 1. start small - start giving yourself little treats - ease into your wealth. 2. wait a week, or two, or three, or four before making a major discretionary purchase. Then after waiting, if you still really want it - just go ahead and make the purchase.
Somethingwitty92912
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by Somethingwitty92912 »

SQRT wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:16 pm
Somethingwitty92912 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:06 am Happiness does not =the amount of money you spend. That’s a huge misconception for a lot of people.
Agree. Happiness is a very complex issue. Too often it’s compared to wealth or spending. One thing that’s also true is being poor doesn’t necessarily make you happy either.
Couldn’t agree more. Being a certain level a poor is downright damaging to your health. However, it’s my opinion that; where, you can avoid spending you essentially should. That’s a very broad brush I am painting with, an there’s a lot of detail, even I spend on things that make me experience joy. That usually breaks down to things that make my life slightly easier.

I’ve past the age where I’ll work on the car, do construction, or tolerate having a boss whom is a jerk.
victw
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by victw »

I use YNAB. If my goals are met its a lot easier to spend on wants.

Vic
ThankYouJack
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by ThankYouJack »

stoptothink wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:38 am
ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:58 am
stoptothink wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:48 am We've been slowly opening up as we reached >40x expenses and a paid off home in our mid-late 30's; ...
after nearly 4yrs of researching and dreaming I finally bought wife and I e-assist bikes
Why did you wait 4 years to achieve the dream of owning an e-bike? I understand being analytical with bigger purchases but with >40x expenses isn't waiting many years missing out / depriving oneself since you could have been enjoying the bike during all that time?
I wanted to hit certain benchmarks before blowing $5k+ on a toy and there really wasn't anything on the market that checked all the boxes. In fact, there still isn't; we had to pre-order a totally new model from a known manufacturer in April and are expecting delivery in November.
I spend a lot on bikes myself so understanding researching them and wanting to get a lot for your $. But I don't think it's blowing the money when it's your dream bike and you're going to really enjoy it. And you can always sell it if you later decide to upgrade. Similarly, I don't think it's blowing $5k if a family takes a very nice vacation and can easily afford to do so.

I'm frugal myself but with money, we can either spend it or give it away. I hope to give a lot away when I die, but at the same time I hope to find the balance between living life to the fullest while I have the time.
mikejuss
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by mikejuss »

celia wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:16 pm Why not give your mom (or other relative, if she has died) some monthly money that she can now depend on? That should ease your concerns as well as hers.

She was most likely setting you up to have a better life than she had.

And now you have it!
+1.
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cashboy
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by cashboy »

OP,

nothing wrong with being 'frugal'. some people view that word as being a negative; it is not.

now, being 'cheap' or miserly' is a different matter - but you appear to be neither of these.

you say you are 31 and have saved a nice amount of money (with more savings to come) - good for you! BUT, the future is unknowable and your situation could change tomorrow - job losses, health crisis, etc. so, if the main issue is not spending what you consider is 'enough' on yourself then don't. there is nothing wrong with that.

your growing up in a financially strained environment has actually taught you valuable lessons; many people have had an easy life and can often take things for granted.


now, if you do want to take action one thing you might consider is constructing a 'living' list of a things you would like to buy for yourself (kind of like a 'bucket list', but instead is a 'buy it' list) that you update over time. prioritize and budget for the items on that list (to satisfy the frugal side of you) and go for it!

I am frugal, so i know exactly where you are coming from. on top of my list is a 77 inch LG OLED tv. :happy
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dziuniek
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by dziuniek »

Save a set % that works for you and spend the rest.
That's my budget. :twisted:
Get rich or die tryin'
stoptothink
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by stoptothink »

ThankYouJack wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:11 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:38 am
ThankYouJack wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:58 am
stoptothink wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:48 am We've been slowly opening up as we reached >40x expenses and a paid off home in our mid-late 30's; ...
after nearly 4yrs of researching and dreaming I finally bought wife and I e-assist bikes
Why did you wait 4 years to achieve the dream of owning an e-bike? I understand being analytical with bigger purchases but with >40x expenses isn't waiting many years missing out / depriving oneself since you could have been enjoying the bike during all that time?
I wanted to hit certain benchmarks before blowing $5k+ on a toy and there really wasn't anything on the market that checked all the boxes. In fact, there still isn't; we had to pre-order a totally new model from a known manufacturer in April and are expecting delivery in November.
I spend a lot on bikes myself so understanding researching them and wanting to get a lot for your $. But I don't think it's blowing the money when it's your dream bike and you're going to really enjoy it. And you can always sell it if you later decide to upgrade. Similarly, I don't think it's blowing $5k if a family takes a very nice vacation and can easily afford to do so.

I'm frugal myself but with money, we can either spend it or give it away. I hope to give a lot away when I die, but at the same time I hope to find the balance between living life to the fullest while I have the time.
I've spent my fair share (easily 5-figures) on bikes over the years, I've probably ridden more miles than I've driven in the past 20yrs (especially because I commuted exclusively by bike for several of those years) and now my wife is a semi-competitive rider. The bigger point is that my dream bike didn't exist. I wasn't going to spend that kind of money ($3500-$6k/each - wife has to get one too) until I could get exactly what I wanted.
dink2win
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by dink2win »

Growing up poor as well, I don't think there is anything wrong with being frugal as long as you don't

1. Negatively impact you or your family's health - aka don't go to the doctor,/dentist eat only bad junk food, wear cheap shoes that mess up your back and feet, drive such an old car with no maintenance it may seize up on the freeway, don't turn on the AC when it's like 110 degrees, etc.

2. Hurt others. You shouldn't steal or hurt others just to spend less money. This includes things like not tipping service providers or refusing to shower to save water and shampoo and making your family deal with your BO.

Otherwise, what's the harm of using coupons? My parents always made sure I got good medical care and ate healthy but utilized all sorts of coupons and deals at the market (basing meals on whats on sale rather than what I felt like eating for the most part).

However, I have recently had some issues with DW because I would only suggest restaurants if there was a coupon or deal, which gave her pressure to not suggest places that are nicer and don't have them despite wanting to go. While I had always gone to those places for special occasions or if asked, I rarely suggest it first because I generally don't really crave those things, despite having a good time when actually going. However I did not realize my actions were impacting others in that manner.

Similarly, I generally only purchase things that are needed and almost always when they are on sale. It got to the point were I recently got a gift for DW and the first comment was "Was this on sale?" rather than "OMG thanks so much for the gift!" That got me thinking as well.

Also, due to random conversation twists, I recently had a somewhat spirited discussion on recycling with the spouse of her friend. Afterwards, she expressed to me embarrassment that I knew so much about the recycling prices (different plastics have different prices, and some bottles are better to claim by the number (CRV) vs others are better to do by weight, etc) and was openly speaking of it with others, making us look like poor people. She mentioned while she doesn't necessarily like the fact I spend time to do these things, she can deal with it (I think because we make a comfortable living for her time is more important than money, so she would rather lose out on the $10 from recycling than spend the 10 minute drive to cash it in). However, she did not want to let others know.

I also have a tendency to grab anything that is free, whether I need it or not. If I end up having no use for it I will either sell it online or give away to friends. She informed me that this bothers her as well that I would rather waste time on things I do not even need rather than spending it doing something nice together or more useful such as exercising. I realized maybe this is also true.

All in all, I also struggle to fully get out of the poor mentality. While I will spend on nice vacations, good location for home, and medical, all the other aspects are tougher. After discussing with DW, we are making the following changes

1. Use of coupons is fine, however, I am only allowed to do the multiple complex deals in store for items that cost over $100. Apparently it is embarrassing and time consuming to spend a lot of time arguing and explaining stacking deals to the cashier. I agree its probably not worth my time for lower priced items.

2. Can go eat out somewhere that has a deal as long as I really want to eat it, no longer will be eating things just because the deal is so good.

3. Only get free things that I will be using. Or can make a good deal of money off reselling. Otherwise leave it alone.

4. Picking up free items, recycling, all other "poor tasks" I will do super early in the morning when she is sleeping or when she has other plans so it does not interfere with our time together. Also no open discussion of these items with anyone outside our immediate family (both our moms are huge couponers).

5. Compromise on clothes - I can still wear them for a long time (until there is some visible irreparable damage) but she will assist me to buy stylish clothes with good quality from nice brands. Previously I would buy like one blue $10 jean at Costco and wear it for over 20 years until it wears out or gets lost/damaged.

The plan is to revisit this annually based on how I am doing plus how much NW we have. And also have discussions from time to time if anything pops up. While I do worry about the future, I should also be enjoying the current, and most importantly, I should be making sure the ones I love are happy as well.
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FOGU
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by FOGU »

Heed the words of the Richest Man in Bablylon (the book is free in the public domain via google search).

"All men are burdened with more desires than they can gratify. Because of my
wealth thinkest thou I may gratify every desire? 'Tis a false idea. There are
limits to my time. There are limits to my strength. There are limits to the
distance I may travel. There are limits to what I may eat. There are limits to
the zest with which I may enjoy."
oilrig
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by oilrig »

I can relate to you OP. I grew up poor with a single Mexican mom, she raised 2 kids by herself and not making very much money. We lived in a pretty bad neighborhood as well.

I am pretty frugal, although I get less and less frugal as time goes on. What helped me was realizing that on certain days when the market is up close to 1%, I made $5k in the stock market, for doing absolutely nothing. So what if I spent an extra hundred or two, I still "made" that extra $5k. That thought helped me get rid of the overly frugal mindset.
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by hvaclorax »

OP,
The thing that gives me great joy is from my local land fill transfer station. We have a last chance picking area where the unwanted furniture household goods go for a few days before the staff throws them into the dumpster. I collect used bikes and refurbish them. Lots of fun from me. Give them to local co-op when finished. Doing well while doing good. Frugal because of very low cost except my labor which is free. A good hobby for retirement
HVAC
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Sandtrap
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by Sandtrap »

broncocountry25 wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:14 pm Happy Saturday!

Any other Bogleheads grow up poor or seeing family really struggle? My mom worked three jobs and parents divorced when I was 4. When I was young I have a ton of negative memories about money. It was a source of constant stress in my families life.

Now that I have money at 31 I am actively working on becoming better at spending. I do not wish to be frugal my whole life.

What have others done to help them spend more along the journey and not over think it?

I love saving/investing and building in life but I also know we are going to be just fine down the road (already millionaires and good chance of inheritance from my wife's side later in life). I want to get better at spending some more now, what has helped others?

I have a hard time spending directly on myself, not so hard spending to take my family/friends to dinner, or pay to take a trip etc. I just need to get better on spending a bit more on myself and am working on it.

Thank You! :sharebeer
There’s nothing wrong or broken until we make comparisons to others or artificial constructs.

Comparisons are odious.

You are what you are and peace, balance, and satisfaction within yourself and with your Self is not going to be had by changing spending patterns or wealth accumulation.

Example:
Many hypothetically ask what they would do or life would change if they had 10 million dollars instead of a fraction of that or a 20 year desk job and accumulated pension, etc. The reality is different once that 10 mil hits the bank or one purchases another Porche, Rolex, Lotus, or Home in the Hamptons, or takes on a new hobby. Why? Wherever you go you take your Self with you and that fundamental ethos does not change. We can change the frosting but short of total cathartic reinvention of Self which is rare (and traumatic), the cake remains the same.

Again. There’s nothing wrong or needs to change until you make comparisons.

What you have is an asset, not a liability.
And, let no one and nobody convince you otherwise.

PM me as you wish.
j🌺

Per forum guidelines and rules and rules: consider posting a portfolio review in forum format for help with a comprehensive long term financial portfolio strategy. That's something really great to focus on and perhaps, a lot more fun.
j
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
Dave55
Posts: 2017
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by Dave55 »

broncocountry25 wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:14 pm Happy Saturday!

Any other Bogleheads grow up poor or seeing family really struggle? My mom worked three jobs and parents divorced when I was 4. When I was young I have a ton of negative memories about money. It was a source of constant stress in my families life.

Now that I have money at 31 I am actively working on becoming better at spending. I do not wish to be frugal my whole life.

What have others done to help them spend more along the journey and not over think it?

I love saving/investing and building in life but I also know we are going to be just fine down the road (already millionaires and good chance of inheritance from my wife's side later in life). I want to get better at spending some more now, what has helped others?

I have a hard time spending directly on myself, not so hard spending to take my family/friends to dinner, or pay to take a trip etc. I just need to get better on spending a bit more on myself and am working on it.

Thank You! :sharebeer
broncocountry25 You would like to strike a balance between saving and spending, right? If yes, my wife and I were able to do that in our lives. Feel free to PM me.

Dave
"Reality always wins, your only job is to get in touch with it." Wilfred Bion
GP813
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by GP813 »

Look at things in terms of percentages. Set an amount of disposable income to spend from your budget and spend it, or keep it in an account separate from your investments/household budget for when you do feel motivated to purchase something or fund that memorable experience.
getthatmarshmallow
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by getthatmarshmallow »

Mike Scott wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:44 am There is "frugal/living within your means" level and then there is a mentality that interfers with life/family/friends/relationships. The first has a DIY budgeting solution. The second may want some professional help/therapy.
This is what I'm seeing too, and figuring out where the line should be is hard. If you're happy (and you're not shorting the waitress/mooching off family/offloading chores onto your spouse/denying your kids basic needs and wants/etc.) don't worry about it. You don't have to spend just to spend. If you're having panic attacks over running the dryer because of the electricity bill (e.g.), seek help. Money isn't supposed to own you, whether by its presence or absence.
PVW
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by PVW »

Spending money is often emotional. Some have a natural affinity and some have a natural aversion. It is difficult to overcome these emotions.

One thing that might help is to think about your past life and how specific things might have been more enjoyable if you had spent more money. Helping family. Travel. Another glass of wine at that nice dinner on your anniversary. Whatever.

Then you will have some logical answers when your emotional intuition tells you not to spend money.
protagonist
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by protagonist »

broncocountry25 wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:14 pm Happy Saturday!

Any other Bogleheads grow up poor or seeing family really struggle? My mom worked three jobs and parents divorced when I was 4. When I was young I have a ton of negative memories about money. It was a source of constant stress in my families life.



Thank You! :sharebeer
Happy Tuesday!

My family was middle class but spent beyond their means, resulting in a severe financial reversal. Without going into details, I suppose that taught me not to spend money I don't have.
I don't know if that made me frugal, nor do I know if I would be considered frugal compared with many who frequent this forum. I buy what I want when I want it without budgeting. But I suppose it did teach me that a lot of stuff does not buy happiness, because I am happy with what I have and don't really care about having anything I can't afford. And it taught me to only spend within my means.
Plus though I have never been "ultra-rich" I have been most other things along the socioeconomic spectrum at some point of my life, and I can't say that how much money or how many things I had or didn't have had much correlation with my happiness level at any given time. Much more important was the state of my social interactions and family connections, how much I was enjoying my work, how much I enjoyed where I lived, etc.
Last edited by protagonist on Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wannaretireearly
Posts: 4880
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Never been super frugal, but DW and I come from 'Frugal' households. Some habits are always there.
Been spending a lot more last 10 years than first 10 'working' years. Glad we were frugal back in the day, cos it has enabled a bit more free spending now. Funny how that works. We spent twice what we would normally spend for a weekend family 'celebration' trip, and do feel guilty about it (about half what my Sauna cost!!). I think its good we *both* felt the same way, helps to be on the same page. Why not take a leaf out of your spouses book. Go spend on something together. Let us know if that helps, or you learn something new!
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

My dad is an immigrant, and when I was a teenager wanting various teenage things, he told me:

there is enough money for good schools, travel, healthy food, books, doctors and a ten speed bicycle for you. there is never going to be enough for jewelry, expensive clothes, trinkets and other junk like that that you don’t need.

As for me, getting less financially insecure is a process. Finding your sweet spot and your values can take time. I gladly open my wallet for certain categories of expenditures and not others. I suggest prioritizing a few categories, spending there, and continuing frugality in other areas.

I suggest the following books:
Stop Acting Rich
The Good Earth
We Need to Talk: A Memoir About Wealth
The Millionaire Next Door
Trading Up

happy to elaborate over DM if you’d like to discuss
international001
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by international001 »

stoptothink wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:48 am 1st generation citizen, my mom raised 5 kids on her own (has since added 2 step-kids) without a high school diploma in probably the most impoverished inner-city neighborhood in California, worked 2-3 jobs; I grew up well below any poverty standard. I didn't even realize we were really poor until I got to college. I had what I considered a happy childhood, simply had no idea what we were missing. It's interesting how that upbringing has affected us siblings differently, as I have 3 siblings that spend every dime (and then some) before it ever reaches their pocket.
You are breaking 2 assumptions here:

- That poor means unhappy. We were a rather frugal family, and yet, all the stress and unhappy memories of childhood had nothing to do directly much
with money.
- That you have to break any type of mentality. We tend to over-assume that our behaviors are somehow correlated to those of our families. But this is less than clear. For instance: https://psmag.com/economics/being-fruga ... rned-31479
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Sandtrap
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by Sandtrap »

international001 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:42 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:48 am 1st generation citizen, my mom raised 5 kids on her own (has since added 2 step-kids) without a high school diploma in probably the most impoverished inner-city neighborhood in California, worked 2-3 jobs; I grew up well below any poverty standard. I didn't even realize we were really poor until I got to college. I had what I considered a happy childhood, simply had no idea what we were missing. It's interesting how that upbringing has affected us siblings differently, as I have 3 siblings that spend every dime (and then some) before it ever reaches their pocket.
You are breaking 2 assumptions here:

- That poor means unhappy. We were a rather frugal family, and yet, all the stress and unhappy memories of childhood had nothing to do directly much
with money.
- That you have to break any type of mentality. We tend to over-assume that our behaviors are somehow correlated to those of our families. But this is less than clear. For instance: https://psmag.com/economics/being-fruga ... rned-31479
Well said.
Outstanding!

j :D
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stoptothink
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Re: Breaking "Poor" Mentality

Post by stoptothink »

international001 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:42 pm
stoptothink wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:48 am 1st generation citizen, my mom raised 5 kids on her own (has since added 2 step-kids) without a high school diploma in probably the most impoverished inner-city neighborhood in California, worked 2-3 jobs; I grew up well below any poverty standard. I didn't even realize we were really poor until I got to college. I had what I considered a happy childhood, simply had no idea what we were missing. It's interesting how that upbringing has affected us siblings differently, as I have 3 siblings that spend every dime (and then some) before it ever reaches their pocket.
You are breaking 2 assumptions here:

- That poor means unhappy. We were a rather frugal family, and yet, all the stress and unhappy memories of childhood had nothing to do directly much
with money.
- That you have to break any type of mentality. We tend to over-assume that our behaviors are somehow correlated to those of our families. But this is less than clear. For instance: https://psmag.com/economics/being-fruga ... rned-31479
Completely agree, and as the rest of my post alluded to, I don't believe that there is something necessary to break.
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