How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

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chipperd
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by chipperd »

8foot7 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:29 am
chipperd wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:19 am
8foot7 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:23 pm Equitably means someone is getting screwed. How they feel about that is what dictates the overall outcome.
I do very much agree with the sentiment that kids should be treated equally unless there is some severe disadvantage (such as a significant disability) from which one of them suffers. If I spend $125,000 on my oldest kid's education, I think my youngest kid has a right to expect I'll spend $125,000 on their education as well. If I give my second child $100,000 for a house downpayment, I think kid 3 would feel kind of screwed if I ran out of money and couldn't afford to do the same for them.
Equal means everyone gets the same.
Fair means everyone gets what they need.
We practice fair. The example we gave our kids when they were young:
Every school has a wheelchair ramp, only kids who need a wheelchair have a wheelchair. Not everyone gets a wheelchair because the ramp exists.
We have three kids all in undergrad, we pay 90% of each of their respective educational expenses. So the percentage is the same but the raw amount isn’t. All three of these expenses differ, one quite a bit cheaper from the other two. Each has made the other aware of the costs. Not a peep from anyone about one getting more $ than the other.
Of course as young adults they view issues of resource discrepancy differently than when they were 6-8 .
Your example involved a disability, which I mentioned already would change the calculus.
In my family, in this house, we believe absent significant mitigating factors, the most fair division of anything is equal.
I don’t know your kids or what they need. I know if I were your kid, all else being equal chipping in 10% of my quite a bit cheaper education, at some point I’m going to feel screwed. Maybe I haven’t yet. Maybe I’d never say a word and secretly resent. Perhaps yours won’t. Variety is the spice of life. :sharebeer
Kids resenting parents or their sibs has been happening since the beginning of time and fear of that happening certainly won't be the driving force behind my parenting decisions. I would argue that if your kid(s) don't resent you for something, the parenting went astray somewhere.
Not sure how having a disability means one shouldn't be part of the fairness doctrine, but I'm letting this one go.
You can have the last word on this. I'll hang up and listen.
Cheers.
:sharebeer
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SQRT
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by SQRT »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:04 am
SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:58 am You can either help them out early in their lives or leave it to them on your demise.
Assuming you don’t dislike them enough to leave it all to your pet canary.

Seriously though, isn’t it nice to see your assets make a difference in the life of a successful and hard working young woman? Good on ya.
Yes if certainly is. I didn’t want her to struggle as much as I did. I believe the value of “struggle” is overrated. Many young people who have to struggle a lot don’t succeed. A little bit of help early on goes a long way. Obviously, if you think your children will react the wrong way, you shouldn’t do it. I knew mine wouldn’t.
phxjcc
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by phxjcc »

D-Dog wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:34 pm My kids are currently in high school and I've been thinking about what level of financial support I will continue to give to them. I want them to learn to be financially responsible adults, but I also want to help them out financially to get them going in life. I'm wondering what others plan on doing (or have done) for their kids from a financial perspective.

My current plan includes:
  • I will pay for the cost of tuition and room&board for four years at an in state public university. If they want to go to a more expensive school, they can pay the difference themselves or take out loans. I'm not sure if I would pay for grad school. I lean towards no, but not sure.
  • I will continue to pay for an older but reliable used car, including insurance, through college. They can pay for gas, any traffic tickets, and the deductible if they get in an accident.
  • I will continue to keep them on my cell phone plan through college.
  • I will continue to fund Roth IRAs for them through college.
  • After college, I don't plan on paying for much, but would allow them to live at home rent free as long as they are working and have a plan to move out. I might bend this a bit if they are still searching for a job.
  • I will contribute to the cost of a wedding. I haven't decided how much, and I haven't told them I will do this.
  • I'm sure there will be unforeseen circumstances so I know I will have to be flexible.
Any thoughts? What would you do (or did you do) differently? I'm also interested in whether you communicated your plan up front with your kids. Thanks.
You have described the events as you would like them to happen: A->B->C....etc.

You need to very clearly describe what will happen when that path is not followed.

Get married at 19 and drop out of school?
...or get married and stay in school?
...or get married, have kids and say they want you to support them, their spouse and their family....and their spouses extended family?

Substance abuse at 22 and lose everything, including professional certifications/licenses?

Decide they are going to "live a little and take a year off before college"?

Move out of state with some swamp trash (who is obviously after their money)?

Because "life is what happens when you are making plans."

Decisions have consequences.

There are no surprises if this is discussed upfront.

I am not telling or suggesting your action in these circumstances--but they are common enough that a frank discussion is in order.
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FIREchief
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by FIREchief »

secondcor521 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:28 pm Lately I've been dealing with the warm hand issue. I've been making very general comments to them about this situation. For now, I think I need to wait to ensure that they're going to launch and be self sufficient first. Perhaps will do warm hand gifting in maybe 5 years or so.
What does "warm hand" mean?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Normchad
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by Normchad »

SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:38 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:04 am
SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:58 am You can either help them out early in their lives or leave it to them on your demise.
Assuming you don’t dislike them enough to leave it all to your pet canary.

Seriously though, isn’t it nice to see your assets make a difference in the life of a successful and hard working young woman? Good on ya.
Yes if certainly is. I didn’t want her to struggle as much as I did. I believe the value of “struggle” is overrated. Many young people who have to struggle a lot don’t succeed. A little bit of help early on goes a long way. Obviously, if you think your children will react the wrong way, you shouldn’t do it. I knew mine wouldn’t.
I also believe the value of “struggle” is greatly overrated.

The impoverished haven’t cornered the market on work ethic or virtue.

Lots of people of very meager means succeed despite the lack of generous support. And many more of them can’t overcome the obstacles. And measures of social mobility indicate this is getting much harder to do….

And for the privileged kids, some of them turn out to be turds. And they probably would have been that way without the help either. There are however lots of examples of people receiving lots of family support, while still working very hard and being very successful and good people. The wealth doesn’t doom you to being an underachiever.

Aside from money though, maybe the most important thing we give our kids is our experience and life experience about how to be successful. Even if you’re not paying their undergrad, they still benefit from you guiding them through the process, steering them, setting a good example, and demonstrating a framework for making good decisions.

For me,I worked about 20 hours a week in undergrad. I was at a competitive disadvantage to my peers who didn’t have to work. If my parents could have paid the whole thing, I wouldn’t have worked. And I’ve have 10 more hours a week to sleep, and 10 hours more to study each week. I know my academic performance would have been better.

Alas, life isn’t fair. I can’t fix that. I will use my money though to stack the deck in my kids favor wherever possible.
MarkRoulo
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by MarkRoulo »

FIREchief wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:21 pm
secondcor521 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:28 pm Lately I've been dealing with the warm hand issue. I've been making very general comments to them about this situation. For now, I think I need to wait to ensure that they're going to launch and be self sufficient first. Perhaps will do warm hand gifting in maybe 5 years or so.
What does "warm hand" mean?
Probably this:
Later in the conversation as we talked about other things, Barbara shared with me something that her father used to say, “It is better to give with a warm hand than a cold one.” She explained that what he meant was that it is better to give when you are alive and can see the benefit of your gift rather than waiting until your hand has gone cold in death before leaving items as an inheritance to someone else.
https://www.personality-insights.com/ti ... -cold-one/
MrCheapo
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by MrCheapo »

D-Dog wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:34 pm My kids are currently in high school and I've been thinking about what level of financial support I will continue to give to them. I want them to learn to be financially responsible adults, but I also want to help them out financially to get them going in life. I'm wondering what others plan on doing (or have done) for their kids from a financial perspective.

My current plan includes:
  • I will pay for the cost of tuition and room&board for four years at an in state public university. If they want to go to a more expensive school, they can pay the difference themselves or take out loans. I'm not sure if I would pay for grad school. I lean towards no, but not sure.
  • I will continue to pay for an older but reliable used car, including insurance, through college. They can pay for gas, any traffic tickets, and the deductible if they get in an accident.
  • I will continue to keep them on my cell phone plan through college.
  • I will continue to fund Roth IRAs for them through college.
  • After college, I don't plan on paying for much, but would allow them to live at home rent free as long as they are working and have a plan to move out. I might bend this a bit if they are still searching for a job.
  • I will contribute to the cost of a wedding. I haven't decided how much, and I haven't told them I will do this.
  • I'm sure there will be unforeseen circumstances so I know I will have to be flexible.
Any thoughts? What would you do (or did you do) differently? I'm also interested in whether you communicated your plan up front with your kids. Thanks.
Great plan I think, except I don't think paying for the wedding is such a good idea. I think it teaches bad values, to be extravagant on a situation when they should be saving.

But a quick question. I didn't contribute to my kids ROTH (didn't know I could). Can I do it retrospectively?
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Toons
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by Toons »

My Son graduated from high school
I provided him with an old car for transportation
A roof over his head
Meals,,etc.
Paid for the first semester of college(local)
He handled his own cell phone bill and gas with monies he earned during the summer.
He quit school after one semester,
I gave him a little time to find a job.(1 week)
He then was required to pay rent.
If he was late with rent he owed a late fee.(which he paid once)
Car, I let him continue using(paying his own insurance) until,
He "misbehaved"
I took the car away,,,,
I told him to figure out transportation
"Walk,Ride A Bicycle"
He approached me one day,and said
Dad,I am going to join the Navy,
I said great,when?
He said the end of the summer,
I said how about I take you to the enlistment center in the morning.
That was 10 years ago.
He is 29
Got his college degree (Navy Paid)
Has risen through the ranks
E-7 Chief,Sailor of the year a couple of times,
Officer is his next step
Never asks us for a penny
I offer,,,
He says "my needs are met."
Works hard
Debt free.
Pays cash for everything
Invests money consistently.
"Don"t Make It Easy"
Because Surviving In The Real World Isn't
Prepare them

:wink:
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goodenyou
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by goodenyou »

FIREchief wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:21 pm
secondcor521 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:28 pm Lately I've been dealing with the warm hand issue. I've been making very general comments to them about this situation. For now, I think I need to wait to ensure that they're going to launch and be self sufficient first. Perhaps will do warm hand gifting in maybe 5 years or so.
What does "warm hand" mean?
You can give to your children when you are alive (warm, body temperature 98.6) or cold (dead and room temperature). Warm = alive and seeing them enjoy it and hopefully good stewards of the money. Cold= dead and money by will or default and not seeing them enjoy it or have an opportunity to thank you personally for being generous.
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mnnice
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by mnnice »

I think this is a complicated topic. I parent much the same as my parents except that my mom always told us that whenever she didn’t want to buy something that she “ couldn’t afford it.” I have always given the real reason.

Not my value system i.e. fancy car
Poorly made/poor value i.e. junky the plastic toys
Not nutritious enough i.e. sugary cereal

I wouldn’t spend big bucks on a fancy wedding or car for my kid as I haven’t spent that on myself. I do think that college students should be treated as (and act like adults). The offspring I have currently enrolled in higher ed I have on my cellular plan (fourth line free) and car insurance. He gets monthly ACH transfer from his 529 to his checking account which is roughly equivalent to his rent and utilities. He has had tuition and tools paid for with grants and scholarships plus a bit of overage. Food, clothes, gas, entertainment are his to figure out from his part time job.

It’s more austere than my current existence but way less spartan and financial stressed than my own college experience. Typical eldest child he likes to do it himself anyway.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

this study from Merrill Lynch suggests many parents spend two dollars supporting their adult children for every $1 they contribute to their own retirement:
The study also found that nearly two-thirds of parents report having sacrificed their own financial security for the sake of their children.
https://mlaem.fs.ml.com/content/dam/ml/ ... ochure.pdf
https://newsroom.bankofamerica.com/pres ... heir-adult

that could explain one reason why there's a retirement crisis in America.
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stoptothink
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by stoptothink »

mnnice wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:52 pm I have always given the real reason.

Not my value system i.e. fancy car
Poorly made/poor value i.e. junky the plastic toys
Not nutritious enough i.e. sugary cereal

I wouldn’t spend big bucks on a fancy wedding or car for my kid as I haven’t spent that on myself.
I really likes this. I'm going to steal this as we're at least a decade from dealing with this.
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asset_chaos
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by asset_chaos »

We took a less proscriptive, more open ended approach with our first high school finisher. We said we'd support them to do something, but we would not support them to do nothing. We let support remain unspecified at that time. We said, we're not going to pester you through the summer after graduation, go out, celebrate, have fun. But before fall rolls around, we will sit down and discuss your concrete plan to move forward. No interest in university; I'm a little disapointed but not surprised; everyone has to run their own race. Happily, even before the deadline rolled around, they had enrolled in a community college trade school. We paid for that and they live at home. Second year now is part school training and part work with a company; they're paid. To ease them into the real world we got them to pay us 5% of after tax earnings for "bills", which really is a token amount at this point, on condition they also save and invest half their after tax earnings. So far this has worked for us with this child, now young adult; both teachers and employer say they're doing well.

We haven't decided yet how quickly to taper our support. As every year of apprentiship the pay goes up, the 5% for bills will increase and at least start to approach what it actually costs for them to live at home, and we're fine with their continuing to live at home for now. Probably next is to have them pay for their own phone.

This was less a plan and more winging it that's so far worked out such that all concerned are happy.
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Mysterious
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by Mysterious »

We have a contract with our college kids to pay a big chunk but not all of university expenses.

Things like cell phones, gyms, etc they begin paying at defined intervals.

No vehicles. So far, the kids graduated and then waited another year to purchase their own. Just no need.

Never expected kids to return to living at home but they did during COVID. Didn't feel right charging rent. Just thankful to have that year with them home to share the house, chores, and spending time.

Didn't really think about weddings. But, the richer I get the easier to warm hand some nice monetary gifts.
secondcor521
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by secondcor521 »

FIREchief wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:21 pm
secondcor521 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:28 pm Lately I've been dealing with the warm hand issue. I've been making very general comments to them about this situation. For now, I think I need to wait to ensure that they're going to launch and be self sufficient first. Perhaps will do warm hand gifting in maybe 5 years or so.
What does "warm hand" mean?
Others have given the gist of the phrase.

In my particular case, by "issue" I mean trying to decide when and how much to give. On the one hand, I want them to be taken care of, have their needs met, and have the opportunity to succeed to the extent that their situations, abilities, talents, and hard work allow and enable. On the other hand, I don't want to give too much that they risk becoming entitled, spoiled, lazy, etc. I want to avoid TMND EOC.

I also want to treat them equivalently but they are different people with different money styles, attitudes, university and career choices, etc. which sometimes would indicate the need for differing treatments.

Finally, the tax code incentivizes me to be inclined towards certain earning / spending / gifting actions and to encourage them towards certain earning / spending / gifting behaviors.

In my case, all of the above factors are in varying degrees of conflict with each other and change over time.
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

mrsmitt wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:36 am Reading this thread made me realize how unfair this society is. Some get a framework to succeed as a birth right.

As an immigrant who came to the US literally with nothing I can only imagine what it feels like to have it all handed to you.
Well, most immigrants I know - my own immediate family, came to this country with zero money but a hard drive to succeed. Was it easy? Absolutely not - I know of hardship so to respond to your statement above, nothing was “handed” to me and in the same light your response while understandable also has the underlying tone of inequality and “skin in the game”. Consider that as an immigrant if you want to do it on your own, what that could mean for your own family tree? Or are you so giving that what you create for yourself you are so willingly to give away only to watch someone given everything squander it away? If you believe this society is unfair, it begs the question why you immigrated here. I’ll tell you why my own family immigrated here - to avoid food starvation, to avoid abject poverty, to live in a country where freedom of many things is a given but it does come with a “cost” not borne of financial instruments only. Only when you’ve paid that price might you realize that this society you speak of with its imperfections is still the number one country people all over willingly migrate to.
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Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

MrCheapo wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:43 pm
D-Dog wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:34 pm My kids are currently in high school and I've been thinking about what level of financial support I will continue to give to them. I want them to learn to be financially responsible adults, but I also want to help them out financially to get them going in life. I'm wondering what others plan on doing (or have done) for their kids from a financial perspective.

My current plan includes:
  • I will pay for the cost of tuition and room&board for four years at an in state public university. If they want to go to a more expensive school, they can pay the difference themselves or take out loans. I'm not sure if I would pay for grad school. I lean towards no, but not sure.
  • I will continue to pay for an older but reliable used car, including insurance, through college. They can pay for gas, any traffic tickets, and the deductible if they get in an accident.
  • I will continue to keep them on my cell phone plan through college.
  • I will continue to fund Roth IRAs for them through college.
  • After college, I don't plan on paying for much, but would allow them to live at home rent free as long as they are working and have a plan to move out. I might bend this a bit if they are still searching for a job.
  • I will contribute to the cost of a wedding. I haven't decided how much, and I haven't told them I will do this.
  • I'm sure there will be unforeseen circumstances so I know I will have to be flexible.
Any thoughts? What would you do (or did you do) differently? I'm also interested in whether you communicated your plan up front with your kids. Thanks.
Great plan I think, except I don't think paying for the wedding is such a good idea. I think it teaches bad values, to be extravagant on a situation when they should be saving.

But a quick question. I didn't contribute to my kids ROTH (didn't know I could). Can I do it retrospectively?
No you can not contribute to a Roth retroactively for prior years. Next best time to start is now assuming they have earned income this year and have not already contributed to an IRA this year. If they already have a traditional IRA and it’s cost effective you may want to consider paying the taxes for them on a Roth conversion (one way to “retroactively contribute”.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
RJC
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by RJC »

Like with everything else in life, it will depend on the situation. If the kids are responsible with their money, then why not help getting them started with major expenses (wedding, downpayment on home, etc.)? If not, maybe some tough love is necessary.
SQRT
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by SQRT »

Normchad wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:38 pm
SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:38 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:04 am
SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:58 am You can either help them out early in their lives or leave it to them on your demise.
Assuming you don’t dislike them enough to leave it all to your pet canary.

Seriously though, isn’t it nice to see your assets make a difference in the life of a successful and hard working young woman? Good on ya.
Yes if certainly is. I didn’t want her to struggle as much as I did. I believe the value of “struggle” is overrated. Many young people who have to struggle a lot don’t succeed. A little bit of help early on goes a long way. Obviously, if you think your children will react the wrong way, you shouldn’t do it. I knew mine wouldn’t.
I also believe the value of “struggle” is greatly overrated.

The impoverished haven’t cornered the market on work ethic or virtue.

Lots of people of very meager means succeed despite the lack of generous support. And many more of them can’t overcome the obstacles. And measures of social mobility indicate this is getting much harder to do….

And for the privileged kids, some of them turn out to be turds. And they probably would have been that way without the help either. There are however lots of examples of people receiving lots of family support, while still working very hard and being very successful and good people. The wealth doesn’t doom you to being an underachiever.

Aside from money though, maybe the most important thing we give our kids is our experience and life experience about how to be successful. Even if you’re not paying their undergrad, they still benefit from you guiding them through the process, steering them, setting a good example, and demonstrating a framework for making good decisions.

For me,I worked about 20 hours a week in undergrad. I was at a competitive disadvantage to my peers who didn’t have to work. If my parents could have paid the whole thing, I wouldn’t have worked. And I’ve have 10 more hours a week to sleep, and 10 hours more to study each week. I know my academic performance would have been better.

Alas, life isn’t fair. I can’t fix that. I will use my money though to stack the deck in my kids favor wherever possible.
I totally agree.

I also had a tough start to life, all my post secondary education was part time on top of a full time job. My 20’s were a blur. Night school 4 nights a week after work. Weekends studying. BA/CPA/MBA by the time I was 29. First marriage couldn’t survive it. I really could have used some help and if I had gotten some, I know I would have studied just as hard. I was lucky to get through it in one piece. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone least of all my daughter. I want her to have as many advantages as I can reasonably provide.
Last edited by SQRT on Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
nigel_ht
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by nigel_ht »

finite_difference wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:12 pm
livesoft wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:04 pm
finite_difference wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:01 pmDid you intentionally or unintentionally/subliminally push your offspring into high-paying occupations?
Not that I know of. My oldest has essentially the same education, credentials, and career as my spouse: Civil Engineer, PE. My youngest has his dream job in sports medicine though not as a physician.
Those are well-paying professional occupations. My wife could have been an amazing artist but was pressured/forced by her parents to become an accountant. Not to take necessarily care of them but herself, although the idea is similar.

It is eminently practical to encourage my kids to follow a professional career trajectory. But what if they have the dream and talent for something else?
Become FI and then pursue passions…
Pessimist55
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by Pessimist55 »

Our family came as I was 9yo. Definitely not even middle class then. I still remember how I didn't tell my.parents about an elementary outing that required $$ because I knew it would be a burden. I think after the school found out why, they let me go without cost.

I now have a 3yo and she already has $50k in 529 and UTMA account. I am not rich but just middle upper in a VHCOL area.
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by nigel_ht »

mrsmitt wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:36 am Reading this thread made me realize how unfair this society is. Some get a framework to succeed as a birth right.

As an immigrant who came to the US literally with nothing I can only imagine what it feels like to have it all handed to you.
Many immigrants work really hard so their kids have that framework to succeed. SS Why deny your kids that?

Unfair? How many countries can you go from illiterate immigrant to Princeton graduate in one generation?
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by Exchme »

OP must have sneaked in and saw what we did as his plan exactly matches what we did. Looking a bit further ahead, we have also contributed the first year or so of college costs to our grandchild's 529.

The kids are now in their 30's with middle class careers with good work ethics and frugal spending habits, and we seem to have arrived at a point where we have more than enough, so we are starting to make small monetary gifts to them each year (at least during good years in the market.)

Hard to find the right balance where the monetary gifts are meaningful but not expected.
mrsmitt
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by mrsmitt »

There is no reason to be so defensive about it. I shared my observation about a real problem in our society. Lol, you go so far to ask me why I immigrated here in the first place???
This is very offensive and shows that you are not able to talk about problems in our society…

You are going into some strange conclusions based on your own imagination and assuming way too many things wrong.

The fundamental inequality in this country is huge and the ability to pass wealth without some serious taxation simply provides a framework for this system. Nobody is talking about handouts here, but at the end of the day we all compete and the rules of the game must be written to allow a somewhat equal chance to all players. If you do not do that you will see what we currently have - some parts of society become disengaged and we blame them for being lazy or making wrong choices, when the environment they are raised in assures a high probability of a poor outcome for them a the society.


FYI. I did come here with literally nothing, no family on this continent. I did “pay the price” and based on stats I do much better than most of my fellow Americans.

Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:44 am
mrsmitt wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:36 am Reading this thread made me realize how unfair this society is. Some get a framework to succeed as a birth right.

As an immigrant who came to the US literally with nothing I can only imagine what it feels like to have it all handed to you.
Well, most immigrants I know - my own immediate family, came to this country with zero money but a hard drive to succeed. Was it easy? Absolutely not - I know of hardship so to respond to your statement above, nothing was “handed” to me and in the same light your response while understandable also has the underlying tone of inequality and “skin in the game”. Consider that as an immigrant if you want to do it on your own, what that could mean for your own family tree? Or are you so giving that what you create for yourself you are so willingly to give away only to watch someone given everything squander it away? If you believe this society is unfair, it begs the question why you immigrated here. I’ll tell you why my own family immigrated here - to avoid food starvation, to avoid abject poverty, to live in a country where freedom of many things is a given but it does come with a “cost” not borne of financial instruments only. Only when you’ve paid that price might you realize that this society you speak of with its imperfections is still the number one country people all over willingly migrate to.
MikeG62
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by MikeG62 »

D-Dog wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:06 pm
Matahari wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:44 am
It is important that you do treat them all equally.
I agree but have struggled with how to make it happen. For example, what if two kids go to the state school but one works harder and gets a lot of merit based scholarships? How do you make that equal? Could pay the difference in cash I suppose, but not sure how I feel about that. Also, some kids just have more natural ability. Treating them equally might be different than treating them equitably.
We choose not to make them equal financially. I looked at it as we paid for them to get the degree they were pursuing. One cost us more than the other, but we did not attempt to hand cash to the one which cost us less. This type of thing could get real slippery real fast - as there are all sorts of costs you incur in raising your children which are not equal.
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by stoptothink »

SQRT wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:32 am
Normchad wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:38 pm
SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:38 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:04 am
SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:58 am You can either help them out early in their lives or leave it to them on your demise.
Assuming you don’t dislike them enough to leave it all to your pet canary.

Seriously though, isn’t it nice to see your assets make a difference in the life of a successful and hard working young woman? Good on ya.
Yes if certainly is. I didn’t want her to struggle as much as I did. I believe the value of “struggle” is overrated. Many young people who have to struggle a lot don’t succeed. A little bit of help early on goes a long way. Obviously, if you think your children will react the wrong way, you shouldn’t do it. I knew mine wouldn’t.
I also believe the value of “struggle” is greatly overrated.

The impoverished haven’t cornered the market on work ethic or virtue.

Lots of people of very meager means succeed despite the lack of generous support. And many more of them can’t overcome the obstacles. And measures of social mobility indicate this is getting much harder to do….

And for the privileged kids, some of them turn out to be turds. And they probably would have been that way without the help either. There are however lots of examples of people receiving lots of family support, while still working very hard and being very successful and good people. The wealth doesn’t doom you to being an underachiever.

Aside from money though, maybe the most important thing we give our kids is our experience and life experience about how to be successful. Even if you’re not paying their undergrad, they still benefit from you guiding them through the process, steering them, setting a good example, and demonstrating a framework for making good decisions.

For me,I worked about 20 hours a week in undergrad. I was at a competitive disadvantage to my peers who didn’t have to work. If my parents could have paid the whole thing, I wouldn’t have worked. And I’ve have 10 more hours a week to sleep, and 10 hours more to study each week. I know my academic performance would have been better.

Alas, life isn’t fair. I can’t fix that. I will use my money though to stack the deck in my kids favor wherever possible.
I totally agree.

I also had a tough start to life, all my post secondary education was part time on top of a full time job. My 20’s were a blur. Night school 4 nights a week after work. Weekends studying. BA/CPA/MBA by the time I was 29. First marriage couldn’t survive it. I really could have used some help and if I had gotten some, I know I would have studied just as hard. I was lucky to get through it in one piece. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone least of all my daughter. I want her to have as many advantages as I can reasonably provide.
Could not possibly disagree more. Struggle made my wife and I who we are. Money would have done me no good, a mentor (a father) would have. Certainly every individual does not need hardship to succeed, but there's nothing that builds confidence in your ability to overcome than overcoming. Now this doesn't mean I'll force my kids to go through what I did out of necessity when we have the resources to avoid it, but we do manufacture hardship in other ways.
MikeG62
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

Post by MikeG62 »

Normchad wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:38 pm
SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:38 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:04 am
SQRT wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:58 am You can either help them out early in their lives or leave it to them on your demise.
Assuming you don’t dislike them enough to leave it all to your pet canary.

Seriously though, isn’t it nice to see your assets make a difference in the life of a successful and hard working young woman? Good on ya.
Yes if certainly is. I didn’t want her to struggle as much as I did. I believe the value of “struggle” is overrated. Many young people who have to struggle a lot don’t succeed. A little bit of help early on goes a long way. Obviously, if you think your children will react the wrong way, you shouldn’t do it. I knew mine wouldn’t.
I also believe the value of “struggle” is greatly overrated.

The impoverished haven’t cornered the market on work ethic or virtue.

Lots of people of very meager means succeed despite the lack of generous support. And many more of them can’t overcome the obstacles. And measures of social mobility indicate this is getting much harder to do….

And for the privileged kids, some of them turn out to be turds. And they probably would have been that way without the help either. There are however lots of examples of people receiving lots of family support, while still working very hard and being very successful and good people. The wealth doesn’t doom you to being an underachiever.

Aside from money though, maybe the most important thing we give our kids is our experience and life experience about how to be successful. Even if you’re not paying their undergrad, they still benefit from you guiding them through the process, steering them, setting a good example, and demonstrating a framework for making good decisions.

For me,I worked about 20 hours a week in undergrad. I was at a competitive disadvantage to my peers who didn’t have to work. If my parents could have paid the whole thing, I wouldn’t have worked. And I’ve have 10 more hours a week to sleep, and 10 hours more to study each week. I know my academic performance would have been better.

Alas, life isn’t fair. I can’t fix that. I will use my money though to stack the deck in my kids favor wherever possible.
This is very well said and a point of view I totally agree with.
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Re: How much financial support do you plan on giving to your kids after high school?

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