My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

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My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Small Law Survivor »

I applied for Social Security online on June 21st. I received a letter from SSA asking me to call a specific SSA agent in Baltimore. We traded calls, and I finally connected with him today, only to have him tell me that because we hadn’t spoken within 14 days of the letter asking me to call him the application had been “abandoned” and referred to the Inspector General as potentially fraudulent (which he said was automatic in these circumstances).

[Expletive removed by admin LadyGeek]

I checked online and while my account had shown that the application was “in process” when I checked a couple of weeks ago, it no longer shows that.

The SSA agent said: don’t file online, file via phone with your local SSA office.

The conversation was VERY confusing - he spoke very fast, and I had trouble following him. He basically talked circles around me. He was not courteous or helpful. He said (twice) that his office was receiving 2500 applications/day, maybe that’s why.

I turned 70 in May, and I delayed filing until June so I could clear the six month retroactive period after my last contribution to my HSA. Now, it sounds like I need to start the process all over again, although it will be well within the six month period following May 2021, so hopefully I’ll be able to get benefits retroactive to May if I refile now.

Sharing this in case anyone else has had a similar experience, and for reassurance that I haven’t screwed up here. I think his recommendation that I refile by phone makes sense, so I don’t end up “trading calls” and miss that 14 day period again. The “talk to us w/in 14 days of our letter or your application dies” concept was one I’d never heard of before. Weird.

Thoughts?
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radiowave
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by radiowave »

Consider reaching out to your local Congressman or Senator. Their staff know how to cut through federal bureaucracy to help their constituents.
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starboi
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by starboi »

Kind of sounds like a scam.

Maybe call the general SSA number instead of this specific individual you spoke to?

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2018/ ... nistration
If someone has contacted you, you can’t be sure who they are.
The SSA has a warning about these scams and suggests you contact them directly at 1-800-772-1213 to verify the reason for the contact and the person’s identity prior to providing any information to the caller.
Last edited by starboi on Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stan1
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by stan1 »

I'd call your local social security office.
ThePenGuy
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by ThePenGuy »

I was recently in the same boat. Since the application was considered to be possibly fraudulent it was referred to an adjudicator at a central workflow office in Chicago for this area. After one week I finally received a call back from the adjudicator, he verified my identity, and my first payment was received a day or two later. The local office really wasn’t of much help aside from providing me the phone number for the adjudication center. The person answering the phone at the adjudication center should be able to provide you the person assigned to your application. Good luck and be persistent.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Nicolas »

I plan to appear in person.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by nisiprius »

I have no idea what the situation is currently with respect to in-person visits. (Checking) Closed currently.

Several years ago, my experience was, uniformly, that the people I saw in person in the local office five miles away were well-informed, helpful, intelligent, and able to understand non-routine questions. While the people I reached by phone were more like your typical big-company "customer service" reps, with a list of the top forty questions and their answers, but little ability to go beyond them.*

So I think he may have been giving you good advice when he said to phone your local Social Security office, if you can figure out a way to do that. When I go to this page and click on "find a local office by zip," I do get different 866 tollfree numbers depending on what zip code I enter, so hopefully it really is connecting you with the local office. As to your experience, I would focus first on getting your problem solved and save the indignation for later.



*For what it's worth: one experience involved "the ARF," which is the adjustment that happens when you reach full retirement age if benefits have been reduced because of exceeding the earned income limit. The front-line telephone person said, a little snippily, that she had never heard of such a thing and I must be misunderstanding how it worked. When I cooled off and went to the local office, I was told that I understood perfectly, but that what I didn't know was that the adjustment was only done in very infrequent batch runs, but that the adjustment would occur in about six months and would include a lump sum payment making it retroactive to full retirement age. Which is exactly what happened.

The second experience involved a problem with a death certificate. The phone representative said basically you're stuck, that death certificate is no good and we can do nothing. And the local office said "let's see the certificate..." tapped on a computer for minute... "OK, no problem, enough of it matches our records, you're all set."
Last edited by nisiprius on Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Nicolas
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Nicolas »

nisiprius wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:59 pm I have no idea what the situation is currently with respect to in-person visits. (Checking) Closed currently.
By the time I turn 70 I expect them to have reopened.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Small Law Survivor »

starboi wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:28 pm Kind of sounds like a scam.

Maybe call the general SSA number instead of this specific individual you spoke to?

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2018/ ... nistration
If someone has contacted you, you can’t be sure who they are.
The SSA has a warning about these scams and suggests you contact them directly at 1-800-772-1213 to verify the reason for the contact and the person’s identity prior to providing any information to the caller.
Definitely not a scam. I filed online - got letter from SSA asking me to call a number at SSA. I check that number out, and it was legit ....
72 yrs. mostly-retired lawyer. Boglehead since day 1 (and M* Diehard long before that) under various names
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Small Law Survivor »

nisiprius wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:59 pm I have no idea what the situation is currently with respect to in-person visits. (Checking) Closed currently.

Several years ago, my experience was, uniformly, that the people I saw in person in the local office five miles away were well-informed, helpful, intelligent, and able to understand non-routine questions. While the people I reached by phone were more like your typical big-company "customer service" reps, with a list of the top forty questions and their answers, but little ability to go beyond them.*

So I think he may have been giving you good advice when he said to phone your local Social Security office, if you can figure out a way to do that. When I go to this page and click on "find a local office by zip," I do get different 866 tollfree numbers depending on what zip code I enter, so hopefully it really is connecting you with the local office. As to your experience, I would focus first on getting your problem solved and save the indignation for later.

*For what it's worth: one experience involved "the ARF," which is the adjustment that happens when you reach full retirement age if benefits have been reduced because of exceeding the earned income limit. The front-line telephone person said, a little snippily, that she had never heard of such a thing and I must be misunderstanding how it worked. When I cooled off and went to the local office, I was told that I understood perfectly, but that what I didn't know was that the adjustment was only done in batch runs every six months and I'd just missed the last one, but that the adjustment would occur in six months and would include a lump sum payment making it retroactive to full retirement age. Which is exactly what happened.

The second experience involved a death certificate with the SSN entered as 999-99-9999... long story... but the phone representative said basically you're stuck, that death certificate is no good and we can do nothing. And the local office said "let's see the certificate..." tapped on a computer for minute... "OK, no problem, the address and everything else matches our records, so we don't need the SSN number to be on the certificate, you're all set."
I think people are working at my local office in Norwood, MA - they just aren't allowing in-person visits, except in exceptional situations.

Not sure what "the ARF" is or whether it would apply to me and I'd need to learn this ... :)

Thanks!
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quantAndHold
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by quantAndHold »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:32 pm
starboi wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:28 pm Kind of sounds like a scam.

Maybe call the general SSA number instead of this specific individual you spoke to?

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2018/ ... nistration
If someone has contacted you, you can’t be sure who they are.
The SSA has a warning about these scams and suggests you contact them directly at 1-800-772-1213 to verify the reason for the contact and the person’s identity prior to providing any information to the caller.
Definitely not a scam. I filed online - got letter from SSA asking me to call a number at SSA. I check that number out, and it was legit ....
When my wife applied awhile ago, they set up an appointment and had her call. It was mostly to confirm what she had entered online and to make sure she was signing up for the right thing. She came away with the impression that they talk to everyone.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by David Jay »

nisiprius wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:59 pmI was told that I understood perfectly, but that what I didn't know was that the adjustment was only done in batch runs every six months and I'd just missed the last one, but that the adjustment would occur in six months and would include a lump sum payment making it retroactive to full retirement age.
DRCs (deferred retirement credits) are the same way, except annually. For example, someone with a July birthday who files well after FRA will get 4% less than entitled until the following January, then they will get the full amount going forward and also a lump sum for the previous 6 months.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by nisiprius »

David Jay wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:10 pm
nisiprius wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:59 pmI was told that I understood perfectly, but that what I didn't know was that the adjustment was only done in batch runs every six months and I'd just missed the last one, but that the adjustment would occur in six months and would include a lump sum payment making it retroactive to full retirement age.
DRCs (deferred retirement credits) are the same way, except annually. For example, someone with a July birthday who files well after FRA will get 4% less than entitled until the following January, then they will get the full amount going forward and also a lump sum for the previous 6 months.
It might have been annually on the ARF, too, in fact now that you mention it I think it was. ("Anchoring," behavioral error!) I don't remember, so I'm editing my posting to say "very infrequent." It seemed like a long time and I was pretty relieved when it came through.
Not sure what "the ARF" is or whether it would apply to me and I'd need to learn this ...
No. It is just a bit of jargon and I didn't explain it because I've forgotten what it stands for. It only applies to you if you claim early (before full retirement age), but then you continue to work while receiving benefits, and you exceed the earned income limit. It stands for (web search) "adjustment to the reduction factor." If you exceed the earned income limit you lose some benefits, and then when you hit full retirement age they adjust your benefit up and you get some of it back and statistically it comes out even.
Last edited by nisiprius on Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by stan1 »

Appears they have their methods and procedures which may not be optimal or friendly, but a fraudulent claim against your SSN would be a real mess to clean up so I'd look at it as a good thing they are at least trying to prevent that from happening.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by neowiser »

I think I spoke with that same person! He was very passive aggressive and tried to provoke me when I started to become frustrated. The guy’s behavior was so extreme that I asked which office he was in and he said Baltimore. I wanted to complain to someone about him but it seemed fruitless. I very politely ended the call when I realized the guy had no intention of answering my questions accurately. I ended up calling my local office and eventually resolved my problem. It’s worth calling multiple times until you reach a helpful, sane person. I was also given a name to contact but that turned out to be irrelevant. Just keep calling until you find someone helpful until the offices reopen.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by musicmom »

I feel so fortunate to have had an in person appointment at local SSA in Jan 2920. Just a short time before the office closed.
Our family's claims are complicated and the rep struggled through the process and had to call in supervisor several times. But he was polite and calm. I was claiming retirement at 63.5 yrs. Older husband was already on SS, disabled daughter was on SSI.
Reconfiguring husbands and daughters benefits on my claim was messy.

Ive since had to call the local office and the service was fine.
I hope your local office can help you
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by bikechuck »

musicmom wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:16 pm I feel so fortunate to have had an in person appointment at local SSA in Jan 2920. Just a short time before the office closed.
WOW! that is almost 900 years in the future ... I guess time travel is real.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Note to self: buy DeLorean stock back in the future.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by dixdak »

My SSA caller threw me off by calling right after the phone scammers saying my SSA card was found at a bloody crime scene in south Texas. He said check your emails. He said I gave advance notification that I was calling. On Saturday morning? Then I notice his email signature includes a quote by Angela Davis? [Expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] Miraculously, the money shows up every month.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by musicmom »

You mean you havent time traveled yet?
So sad. :(
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by adamthesmythe »

quantAndHold wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:44 pm
Small Law Survivor wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:32 pm
starboi wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:28 pm Kind of sounds like a scam.

Maybe call the general SSA number instead of this specific individual you spoke to?

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2018/ ... nistration
If someone has contacted you, you can’t be sure who they are.
The SSA has a warning about these scams and suggests you contact them directly at 1-800-772-1213 to verify the reason for the contact and the person’s identity prior to providing any information to the caller.
Definitely not a scam. I filed online - got letter from SSA asking me to call a number at SSA. I check that number out, and it was legit ....
When my wife applied awhile ago, they set up an appointment and had her call. It was mostly to confirm what she had entered online and to make sure she was signing up for the right thing. She came away with the impression that they talk to everyone.
I can say that they don't talk to everyone because they didn't talk to me. I applied totally on line, and it went through without a hiccup.

I'm not sure what makes it uncomplicated but apparently my case was one of them.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Dottie57 »

bikechuck wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:40 am
musicmom wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:16 pm I feel so fortunate to have had an in person appointment at local SSA in Jan 2920. Just a short time before the office closed.
WOW! that is almost 900 years in the future ... I guess time travel is real.
I guess SS survived. And is in the future!
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Small Law Survivor »

Put in the application by phone via Norwood MA office. SSA person did this at 8:00 a.m. - was helpful, courteous and informative.

Only oddity was that I didn't want (need) Medicare Part A (still covered by employer BC/BS), but when he tried to "submit" the application it wouldn't take it unless he signed me up for Part A. Not a big deal, it's what it is.

Hopefully, this is over with.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by cowdogman »

Dottie57 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:30 pm
bikechuck wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:40 am
musicmom wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:16 pm I feel so fortunate to have had an in person appointment at local SSA in Jan 2920. Just a short time before the office closed.
WOW! that is almost 900 years in the future ... I guess time travel is real.
I guess SS survived. And is in the future!
If I apply in 2920, can I have the payment sent to my account now. It'll be like $1 billion a month.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by celia »

OP, have you heard that there is a pandemic going around? That’s why most SS employees are working from home (or have been furloughed?). And the guy you talked to said his department is getting 2500 calls a day. What do you think you would sound like after repeating the same thing 100 times a day? (Maybe he could record a suitable outgoing phone message warning those who call in, but that’s another topic).

So, why not call your local office that will have less than 1% of the call volume the national phone numbers get?
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Chuckles960 »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:20 am...Only oddity was that I didn't want (need) Medicare Part A (still covered by employer BC/BS), but when he tried to "submit" the application it wouldn't take it unless he signed me up for Part A. Not a big deal, it's what it is.
It is normal to sign up for Part A when first eligible (at 65). It is not necessary if still employed and has no immediate cost or benefit, but it puts you in the system and maybe makes adding Parts B and D (or C) later more seamless.

I signed up for Part A at 65, and had to show my naturalization certificate. Five years later the signup for SS was entirely hassle-free and did not require any docs.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by Small Law Survivor »

celia wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:38 pm OP, have you heard that there is a pandemic going around? That’s why most SS employees are working from home (or have been furloughed?). And the guy you talked to said his department is getting 2500 calls a day. What do you think you would sound like after repeating the same thing 100 times a day? (Maybe he could record a suitable outgoing phone message warning those who call in, but that’s another topic).

So, why not call your local office that will have less than 1% of the call volume the national phone numbers get?
Yes Celia, you are right. And yes, I did call my local office, got connected immediately, and did the application via phone the following day.

But - why do local offices get only 1% of call volume?!

Oh, and again, thank you for all the help you've given me over the last five (?) years. Again, if you're ever in Boston, let me know so we can have a drink or a cup of coffee!

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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by 8foot7 »

celia wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:38 pm OP, have you heard that there is a pandemic going around? That’s why most SS employees are working from home (or have been furloughed?). And the guy you talked to said his department is getting 2500 calls a day. What do you think you would sound like after repeating the same thing 100 times a day? (Maybe he could record a suitable outgoing phone message warning those who call in, but that’s another topic).
None of these reasons are satisfactory excuses for being rude to callers who pay this person's salary.
In fact, a job with the type of benefits federal employees get where for a long period of time all I had to do was repeat the same thing 100 times a day sounds greatly appealing right now.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by WillRetire »

celia wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:38 pm OP, have you heard that there is a pandemic going around? That’s why most SS employees are working from home (or have been furloughed?). And the guy you talked to said his department is getting 2500 calls a day. What do you think you would sound like after repeating the same thing 100 times a day? (Maybe he could record a suitable outgoing phone message warning those who call in, but that’s another topic).

So, why not call your local office that will have less than 1% of the call volume the national phone numbers get?
Celia, I don't know how much direct experience you've had with the Social Security Administration within the past 10 years, but for most of us, calling the "local office" gets worst response times than the general number. At least this was true pre-pandemic. Doubtful it has improved during or post-pandemic.

Here's an anecdote: We sent some forms via certified mail with return receipt requested to our local SSA office a few years ago. No response. Couldn't get through by phone either. Eventually, called a different local office (in a nearby city), finally got through and rep asked us to resend the forms via fax, and she handled the request promptly. For which we were grateful. She explained that our city's office, and hers, were swamped with various requests.

Another anecdote: For a different transaction (pre-pandemic) that could not be done online (their rules, not ours), we visited the local SSA office in person. Arrived 10 min. before opening (long line already formed) with elderly relative in a wheel chair. Waited 3 hours in queue. Request handled. Same drill on another occasion.

Bear in mind that a lot (most?) Social Security requests are from elderly and/or disabled, and lengthy waits are very trying for them. In theory, if you have a social worker or attorney helping, you *might* be able to get an appointment.

My post is not to complain, but to counter your post which comes off as flippant towards the OP's sitution, critical of the OP, out-of-touch with SSA office realities even pre-pandemic, and too defensive of a stressed & (at times) broken bureaucratic agency. SSA exists to SERVE their beneficiaries, not the other way around.
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by vanbogle59 »

bikechuck wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:40 am
musicmom wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:16 pm I feel so fortunate to have had an in person appointment at local SSA in Jan 2920. Just a short time before the office closed.
WOW! that is almost 900 years in the future ... I guess time travel is real.
This is clearly fiction.
I can buy that time travel is real.
But there is no way SS lasts for another 900 years!
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celia
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Re: My bizarre telcon with SSA today.

Post by celia »

Small Law Survivor wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:54 am But - why do local offices get only 1% of call volume?!
Because there are over 100 local offices (that can split the calls) whereas the OP's original call seemed to be to a call center for nation-wide calls.
WillRetire wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:22 am Celia, I don't know how much direct experience you've had with the Social Security Administration within the past 10 years, but for most of us, calling the "local office" gets worst response times than the general number. At least this was true pre-pandemic. Doubtful it has improved during or post-pandemic.
...
My post is not to complain, but to counter your post which comes off as flippant towards the OP's sitution, critical of the OP, out-of-touch with SSA office realities even pre-pandemic, and too defensive of a stressed & (at times) broken bureaucratic agency. SSA exists to SERVE their beneficiaries, not the other way around.
I was not trying to be flippant, but tend to look at problems like this from the other person's perspective. Sometimes I also have to adjust my terminology to get on the "same page" as they are.

Yes, DH and I have applied for SS within the last 10 years, partly in-person, and partly by phone appointment. I've had to call SS several times during the pandemic for elderly relatives who misplaced their tax forms so I could do their taxes. SS refuses to talk to me directly and I am usually in another time zone as the general number I call. So, when I run into a dead end with SS, I wait till the next day, visit a relative to get them on the line and get their permission.... When done, the spouse is sitting there too, and I have to sit through the same round of questions again. It may take 3 or 4 attempts to get everyone together at the same time.
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