career move or rest/vest?

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iluvlucy
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career move or rest/vest?

Post by iluvlucy »

We both work in tech, mid-to-late 40s VHCOL, with a NW(w.o housing) touching 8 digits. Kids(2) in middle/high school - well stocked 529s in place. Yearly income is around $1.4m, expenses around 150k and we are blessed. Mortgage pending is 500k and this will be forever home - due to people, place and surroundings. Over the next 2 yrs, we would have additional $2m coming from options/RSUs.

Career wise, we probably have saturated in our positions and possibly not challenged or under leveled(at least one of us). Work is 9-5(manageable stress), but there is nagging concern - could we do better? Also, when we look at others(more successful, or could become successful career wise) in peer group, we kind of wonder, couldn't we stretch and try? Even though the money brings no value and may actually take away time. Yes, there is also scorekeeping in terms of money made - but no one exchanges scores, just a perception of scores being made.

We both are being approached by peer companies and are interviewing - half heartedly. Yeah, the work may be slightly better. If both of us jump ship, it may increase by $300k-$400k - of course with increase time pressure and whole new place. Is this worth it? How do people deal with internal greed, vs desire to do even better vs rest/vest and ride it to sunset. Is this a form of rat-race we are getting in to?

How to folks deal with scenarios like this and settle at a place?
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BolderBoy
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by BolderBoy »

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pmHow to folks deal with scenarios like this and settle at a place?
John Bogle wrote a piece about this sort of thing. It is entitled, "Enough".
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect
Alto Astral
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Alto Astral »

Move. Mid-to-late 40s is nothing. Tech hiring is insane now; ride this wave. You can rest when the market corrects the next time. Interview whole-heartedly. You know you want to move. Interviewing is not trivial and you are already doing it. I don't think of it as keeping score. Just be the best version of what you are. And you can still have a good WLB at the new job, talk to the team members about their work hours before committing to a team. Its always worth the move!
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by KlangFool »

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm
We both work in tech, mid-to-late 40s VHCOL, with a NW(w.o housing) touching 8 digits. Kids(2) in middle/high school - well stocked 529s in place
iluvlucy,

You and your spouse could do better by working less and spend more time with your kids. You have limited time window to spend more time with your kids. Once they leave home to go to college, your window had closed.

You could always earn more money. But, at your 8 digits net worth, your portfolio had earned more than enough for your family. Hence, the additional money brings marginal benefits to your family.

As for scores, who cares? In the end, only your friends and family matters.

KlangFool
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Golf maniac
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Golf maniac »

Move or stay, it doesn’t really matter from a financial standpoint with such a large Salary, low expenses and large NW without housing. Do whatever your gut tells you, it has guided you pretty well thus far.
Normchad
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Normchad »

You don’t need any more money. It doesn’t sound like you could ever spend all the money you’ve already got.

So you’re in the enviable position of being able to do whatever you want; without regard to finances at all. I know though that can be a tough spot, with unlimited choices, to figure out what you want.

Sometimes I just sit tight for a while and hope the right answer just reveals itself…..

Best of luck to you in making this decision.
gogreen
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by gogreen »

Alto Astral wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:34 pm Move. Mid-to-late 40s is nothing. Just be the best version of what you are... Its always worth the move!
That's something I'd like to challenge. Nobody in my family made to 80+ :( For me late 40's is 'hey, let's start settling down, few more years and we're out'
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JoeRetire
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by JoeRetire »

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pmIs this worth it?
"Worth it" is something only you can decide.
How do people deal with internal greed
I don't have internal greed.
Is this a form of rat-race we are getting in to?
Clearly you already know the answer.
How to folks deal with scenarios like this and settle at a place?
Most people decide what is important and pursue that. Perhaps that's exactly what you are already doing. Only you can tell for sure.
Just remember: it's not a lie if you believe it.
Topic Author
iluvlucy
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by iluvlucy »

Normchad wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:31 pm You don’t need any more money. It doesn’t sound like you could ever spend all the money you’ve already got.

So you’re in the enviable position of being able to do whatever you want; without regard to finances at all. I know though that can be a tough spot, with unlimited choices, to figure out what you want.

Sometimes I just sit tight for a while and hope the right answer just reveals itself…..

Best of luck to you in making this decision.
I am sure people crossed this bridge before us. Do people look back later and wonder - what if they took the road of change and made more?
Or continued to work at current place as a filler - basically sit tight in place and coast? I do agree that we will have a vacuum where we don't know what to do with free time, if we leave now or even later in few years. We have to start plans now as in few years, when the 2nd one leaves nest, we will have more time on hands. Time with them is precious(that is now), as others pointed out.
It feels weird to be odd-ones out, walking out of work place and in social circle - to even contemplate retirement. We have seen no one even consider that. Most say it's at least 10yrs out, but we can't see working that far out.
KlangFool
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by KlangFool »

iluvlucy wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:26 pm
It feels weird to be odd-ones out, walking out of work place and in social circle - to even contemplate retirement. We have seen no one even consider that. Most say it's at least 10yrs out, but we can't see working that far out.
iluvlucy,

Find new friend. Form new social circle. Aka, folks that actually have a life besides working.

KlangFool
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Normchad
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Normchad »

iluvlucy wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:26 pm
Normchad wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:31 pm You don’t need any more money. It doesn’t sound like you could ever spend all the money you’ve already got.

So you’re in the enviable position of being able to do whatever you want; without regard to finances at all. I know though that can be a tough spot, with unlimited choices, to figure out what you want.

Sometimes I just sit tight for a while and hope the right answer just reveals itself…..

Best of luck to you in making this decision.
I am sure people crossed this bridge before us. Do people look back later and wonder - what if they took the road of change and made more?
Or continued to work at current place as a filler - basically sit tight in place and coast? I do agree that we will have a vacuum where we don't know what to do with free time, if we leave now or even later in few years. We have to start plans now as in few years, when the 2nd one leaves nest, we will have more time on hands. Time with them is precious(that is now), as others pointed out.
It feels weird to be odd-ones out, walking out of work place and in social circle - to even contemplate retirement. We have seen no one even consider that. Most say it's at least 10yrs out, but we can't see working that far out.
I think people are more likely to regret the things they didn’t do, or didnt try, than they are to regret the choices they actually made.

On the other hand, for a lot of people, work is more than just about the money. So they would happily keep working, even without the money.

Part of work for a lot of people is social, or professional respect, or they enjoy the challenge, or they want to keep sharp, or they just to be working. If that’s you, then stopping might be a problem.

If friends with similar interests are important to you, that might be hard to have and maintain if you are a retired 48 year old.
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market timer
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by market timer »

You have a fantastic job, but what I think you lack is purpose. I'd suggest spending some time to identify your core values. As you are probably aware, earning additional money that you won't spend does not feel purposeful.

Perhaps you feel unfulfilled and what you crave is personal growth, so you think the solution is to climb the ladder ever higher. In my experience, that is not the solution to your problem of purposelessness.

Imagine retiring today. What would you miss most about work? You might initially think earning money, but it is probably not that, because you are already rich. My guess is you will miss the people. If you are in a leadership position, you might miss the mentoring you do. You might miss the application of your unique technical and organizational knowledge to solve complex problems. These are the values that get you excited to work. It is important to be aware of your core values, because you are likely to feel fulfilled when your career is an expression of them.

Moreover, we have some ability to choose our core values. Certain core values appear to be better for mental health and wellbeing. These are self-transcending values, or what the Greeks called eudaemonic values. Self-transcending values would include projects like mentoring that you might already do at work. The other type of values are self-enhancing, or hedonic, and are more about enriching oneself through money and status.

Many of us start our careers optimizing for self-enhancing values, as we acquire the resources for financial independence and climb the corporate ladder. If you continue to optimize for these core values, it is likely a recipe for discontentment in middle age. Better to transition to a more abundant mindset of self-transcendence, where you ask how you would like to give back in your fortunate position.
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Watty
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Watty »

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm Yearly income is around $1.4m
.....
Yeah, the work may be slightly better. If both of us jump ship, it may increase by $300k-$400k - of course with increase time pressure and whole new place.
You can play with the math but if you are working 9 to 5 for that pay then on an hourly basis then you could actually be taking a pay cut, on an hourly basis, it you have to work even a couple of hours per week more in the new job.
iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm Over the next 2 yrs, we would have additional $2m coming from options/RSUs.

Yeah, the work may be slightly better. If both of us jump ship, it may increase by $300k-$400k - of course with increase time pressure and whole new place.
How long would it take to break even for giving up that $2m?

There is a reason they call them golden handcuffs.

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm How to folks deal with scenarios like this and settle at a place?
My situation was totally different by several orders of magnitude but one year when I was in my 50s I went to three funerals of people that were about my age. I was not real close to any of them but when you see neighbors and coworkers dying that does get your thinking.

I retired when I financially could with no regrets.

Several people mentioned that the time with your kids is very limited, which us true, but you also need to consider that you and your spouses time is also limited. The odds that you and your spouse will both be alive and in good health in 20 years may not be as good as you might think.
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22twain
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by 22twain »

iluvlucy wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:26 pm Do people look back later and wonder - what if they took the road of change and made more?
I think you need to ask yourself, what would you DO with more?
It's "Roth", not "ROTH". Senator William Roth was a person, not an acronym.
Topic Author
iluvlucy
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by iluvlucy »

Watty wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:56 pm
iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm Yearly income is around $1.4m
.....
Yeah, the work may be slightly better. If both of us jump ship, it may increase by $300k-$400k - of course with increase time pressure and whole new place.
You can play with the math but if you are working 9 to 5 for that pay then on an hourly basis then you could actually be taking a pay cut, on an hourly basis, it you have to work even a couple of hours per week more in the new job.
iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm Over the next 2 yrs, we would have additional $2m coming from options/RSUs.

Yeah, the work may be slightly better. If both of us jump ship, it may increase by $300k-$400k - of course with increase time pressure and whole new place.
How long would it take to break even for giving up that $2m?

There is a reason they call them golden handcuffs.

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm How to folks deal with scenarios like this and settle at a place?
My situation was totally different by several orders of magnitude but one year when I was in my 50s I went to three funerals of people that were about my age. I was not real close to any of them but when you see neighbors and coworkers dying that does get your thinking.

I retired when I financially could with no regrets.

Several people mentioned that the time with your kids is very limited, which us true, but you also need to consider that you and your spouses time is also limited. The odds that you and your spouse will both be alive and in good health in 20 years may not be as good as you might think.
We can sell all the stock now - it's vested and sitting(again perhaps out of greed and laziness).
Yes, I see that if we spent more time at new work, it may add to stress and financially may not come ahead, initially(addl time spent for $ gained). There seems to be a yet another rainbow and a pot(no one knows). We question that - to what end? Rat-race?
22twain wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:37 pm
iluvlucy wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:26 pm Do people look back later and wonder - what if they took the road of change and made more?
I think you need to ask yourself, what would you DO with more?
We may substantially increase charity, payoff the loan, sooner.
Topic Author
iluvlucy
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by iluvlucy »

market timer wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:41 pm You have a fantastic job, but what I think you lack is purpose. I'd suggest spending some time to identify your core values. As you are probably aware, earning additional money that you won't spend does not feel purposeful.

Perhaps you feel unfulfilled and what you crave is personal growth, so you think the solution is to climb the ladder ever higher. In my experience, that is not the solution to your problem of purposelessness.

Imagine retiring today. What would you miss most about work? You might initially think earning money, but it is probably not that, because you are already rich. My guess is you will miss the people. If you are in a leadership position, you might miss the mentoring you do. You might miss the application of your unique technical and organizational knowledge to solve complex problems. These are the values that get you excited to work. It is important to be aware of your core values, because you are likely to feel fulfilled when your career is an expression of them.

Moreover, we have some ability to choose our core values. Certain core values appear to be better for mental health and wellbeing. These are self-transcending values, or what the Greeks called eudaemonic values. Self-transcending values would include projects like mentoring that you might already do at work. The other type of values are self-enhancing, or hedonic, and are more about enriching oneself through money and status.

Many of us start our careers optimizing for self-enhancing values, as we acquire the resources for financial independence and climb the corporate ladder. If you continue to optimize for these core values, it is likely a recipe for discontentment in middle age. Better to transition to a more abundant mindset of self-transcendence, where you ask how you would like to give back in your fortunate position.
The things we will miss is different.
One of us will miss people and camaraderie, other couldn't care less. May be camaraderie in distant groups, not in immediate work group.
Social recognition due to work identity by others, though we really don't care about that.
We have avoided hedonic treadmill and LBYM, regular Joes driving beat up Camrys(>5 yr old). It is perplexing to others why we don't have Lexus or Tesla. Charity, simplicity and spirituality are common values for both of us - none of these are fulfilled at work. We both had fun and challenge at work, now that is not so much any more.
supalong52
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by supalong52 »

I don't see this as a financial question at all. You can do whatever you want. Extra money has no incremental value at this point. Focus on the things that are scarce in your life. Ignore the scorekeeping, keeping up with the Joneses, etc. None of that really matters.
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market timer
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by market timer »

iluvlucy wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:16 amCharity, simplicity and spirituality are common values for both of us - none of these are fulfilled at work. We both had fun and challenge at work, now that is not so much any more.
I doubt transferring to another corporate job will solve your lack of fulfillment.
iluvlucy wrote:Work is 9-5(manageable stress), but there is nagging concern - could we do better? Also, when we look at others(more successful, or could become successful career wise) in peer group, we kind of wonder, couldn't we stretch and try?
Indeed, I think you can do better than you are today. You can be more successful, as measured by "charity, simplicity, and spirituality," by optimizing for those values.
Nathan Drake
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Nathan Drake »

The tech numbers I’ve seen around here lately keep skyrocketing

1.4M with 2M in RSUs? For a low stress 9-5?

Just insanity. Not sure if this is common or trolling but assuming it’s genuine you could work only 1 year, move to LCOL, and live a better retirement than 95% of the country ever will.

And you have 10M+. Most will not earn 1/4 of that in a lifetime of work.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

OP, what prevents you from working/volunteering 100% of your time towards charity and/or spirituality? Perhaps write them down. E.g. 1. Payoff debt. 2. $X for early retirement and 3. $Y for kids college and legacy.

Once you've completed the list, the next step may become very clear. Good luck. You are truly blessed with wealth!
Death and taxes. Only one is under your control!
Wannaretireearly
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Nathan Drake wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:43 am The tech numbers I’ve seen around here lately keep skyrocketing

1.4M with 2M in RSUs? For a low stress 9-5?

Just insanity. Not sure if this is common or trolling but assuming it’s genuine you could work only 1 year, move to LCOL, and live a better retirement than 95% of the country ever will.

And you have 10M+. Most will not earn 1/4 of that in a lifetime of work.
+1. I'm in 'old tech and 100% agree!
Death and taxes. Only one is under your control!
ivk5
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by ivk5 »

market timer wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:41 pm You have a fantastic job, but what I think you lack is purpose. I'd suggest spending some time to identify your core values. As you are probably aware, earning additional money that you won't spend does not feel purposeful.

Perhaps you feel unfulfilled and what you crave is personal growth, so you think the solution is to climb the ladder ever higher. In my experience, that is not the solution to your problem of purposelessness.

Imagine retiring today. What would you miss most about work? You might initially think earning money, but it is probably not that, because you are already rich. My guess is you will miss the people. If you are in a leadership position, you might miss the mentoring you do. You might miss the application of your unique technical and organizational knowledge to solve complex problems. These are the values that get you excited to work. It is important to be aware of your core values, because you are likely to feel fulfilled when your career is an expression of them.

Moreover, we have some ability to choose our core values. Certain core values appear to be better for mental health and wellbeing. These are self-transcending values, or what the Greeks called eudaemonic values. Self-transcending values would include projects like mentoring that you might already do at work. The other type of values are self-enhancing, or hedonic, and are more about enriching oneself through money and status.

Many of us start our careers optimizing for self-enhancing values, as we acquire the resources for financial independence and climb the corporate ladder. If you continue to optimize for these core values, it is likely a recipe for discontentment in middle age. Better to transition to a more abundant mindset of self-transcendence, where you ask how you would like to give back in your fortunate position.
There’s considerable wisdom here…
HenryG
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by HenryG »

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm could we do better?
Yes, you could do better, but define what better means to you. Which dimension of your lives are important to optimize...and are your jobs aligned to that? Being happier, healthier and stronger? Or having bigger title, more money, etc.? Ask yourself why/why/why with your answers. How would your past/future selves likely answer these questions? If you were starting from a blank slate, what decisions would you make? Momentum and inertia are common factors.

Lots of good comments above as well.
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by whereskyle »

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm We both work in tech, mid-to-late 40s VHCOL, with a NW(w.o housing) touching 8 digits. Kids(2) in middle/high school - well stocked 529s in place. Yearly income is around $1.4m, expenses around 150k and we are blessed. Mortgage pending is 500k and this will be forever home - due to people, place and surroundings. Over the next 2 yrs, we would have additional $2m coming from options/RSUs.

Career wise, we probably have saturated in our positions and possibly not challenged or under leveled(at least one of us). Work is 9-5(manageable stress), but there is nagging concern - could we do better? Also, when we look at others(more successful, or could become successful career wise) in peer group, we kind of wonder, couldn't we stretch and try? Even though the money brings no value and may actually take away time. Yes, there is also scorekeeping in terms of money made - but no one exchanges scores, just a perception of scores being made.

We both are being approached by peer companies and are interviewing - half heartedly. Yeah, the work may be slightly better. If both of us jump ship, it may increase by $300k-$400k - of course with increase time pressure and whole new place. Is this worth it? How do people deal with internal greed, vs desire to do even better vs rest/vest and ride it to sunset. Is this a form of rat-race we are getting in to?

How to folks deal with scenarios like this and settle at a place?
You need to assess your motivations, accept that you will never have everything, and decide what is really important to you in life. Money is a means to an end, not an end. Decide what your "end" is, i.e., the lifestyle you want and how much it costs per year. Multiply that number by 33. That's your financial independence number. Knowing your number should help you make decisions that are not "greed" based.
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
BillWalters
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by BillWalters »

Retire and go teach at your kids’ school.

No prize for being the richest guy in the cemetery.
FootballFan5548
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by FootballFan5548 »

I'm in a pretty similar position as the original poster... but at considerably less numbers. I'm upper 30's. I'm at a megacorp job. I'm running a great group of 20+ people and a very sizeable book of business I manage countrywide. Genuinely like what I do, paid well, love my team, but feeling a little bit bored since I've been in the same place for 13+ years building this thing out. We've gone from $10M to $400M in 13 years. My pay has increased over the time and i'm making about $500k all in between salary, bonus, stock. I have 400k of stock unvested outstanding. WFH has been great, but the hour plus commute and daily grind will be starting up again soon.

I was approached by a private equity fund to start up a brand new company with tons of back office support through a holding company. I'd own 30% of this new venture, PE firm would own 70% (they own the holding company). I could launch this new venture with some of my closest coworkers now, we'd all get paid much more, we'd all have 3 year contracts, they'd pay out our unvested stock in cash. And i'd have 30% equity... of whatever I build. I'd need to do it all to start, it would be a clean slate, it would be far from boring...

I could do my job now in my sleep, my team does most of the stuff for me and I review/approve/meet with clients.

This new job would be an uptick in work, uptick in overall responsibility, much smaller team to start, and who knows, it could launch and be a future mega corp making me richer than i'd ever imagine... or it could fizzle, and my 3 year contract expires, and i'm on the street.

I'm trying to weigh if it's worth the "risk" to get paid more and build a business from scratch (with tons of back office help/function), or stay where I am pretty bored, unmotivated, just waiting to retire which is probably 20 years away...

to OP, you only live once, i'd at least interview, get offers, then make a legit decision.
runner540
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by runner540 »

FootballFan5548 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:01 am I'm in a pretty similar position as the original poster... but at considerably less numbers. I'm upper 30's. I'm at a megacorp job. I'm running a great group of 20+ people and a very sizeable book of business I manage countrywide. Genuinely like what I do, paid well, love my team, but feeling a little bit bored since I've been in the same place for 13+ years building this thing out. We've gone from $10M to $400M in 13 years. My pay has increased over the time and i'm making about $500k all in between salary, bonus, stock. I have 400k of stock unvested outstanding. WFH has been great, but the hour plus commute and daily grind will be starting up again soon.

I was approached by a private equity fund to start up a brand new company with tons of back office support through a holding company. I'd own 30% of this new venture, PE firm would own 70% (they own the holding company). I could launch this new venture with some of my closest coworkers now, we'd all get paid much more, we'd all have 3 year contracts, they'd pay out our unvested stock in cash. And i'd have 30% equity... of whatever I build. I'd need to do it all to start, it would be a clean slate, it would be far from boring...

I could do my job now in my sleep, my team does most of the stuff for me and I review/approve/meet with clients.

This new job would be an uptick in work, uptick in overall responsibility, much smaller team to start, and who knows, it could launch and be a future mega corp making me richer than i'd ever imagine... or it could fizzle, and my 3 year contract expires, and i'm on the street.

I'm trying to weigh if it's worth the "risk" to get paid more and build a business from scratch (with tons of back office help/function), or stay where I am pretty bored, unmotivated, just waiting to retire which is probably 20 years away...

to OP, you only live once, i'd at least interview, get offers, then make a legit decision.
Do it, but background check the PE firm. Get a good lawyer for all your documentation who swims with the sharks, do diligence on their track record/fund/leadership, and good luck! They should provide references of other execs who’ve worked with them.
Nathan Drake
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Nathan Drake »

FootballFan5548 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:01 am I'm in a pretty similar position as the original poster... but at considerably less numbers. I'm upper 30's. I'm at a megacorp job. I'm running a great group of 20+ people and a very sizeable book of business I manage countrywide. Genuinely like what I do, paid well, love my team, but feeling a little bit bored since I've been in the same place for 13+ years building this thing out. We've gone from $10M to $400M in 13 years. My pay has increased over the time and i'm making about $500k all in between salary, bonus, stock. I have 400k of stock unvested outstanding. WFH has been great, but the hour plus commute and daily grind will be starting up again soon.

I was approached by a private equity fund to start up a brand new company with tons of back office support through a holding company. I'd own 30% of this new venture, PE firm would own 70% (they own the holding company). I could launch this new venture with some of my closest coworkers now, we'd all get paid much more, we'd all have 3 year contracts, they'd pay out our unvested stock in cash. And i'd have 30% equity... of whatever I build. I'd need to do it all to start, it would be a clean slate, it would be far from boring...

I could do my job now in my sleep, my team does most of the stuff for me and I review/approve/meet with clients.

This new job would be an uptick in work, uptick in overall responsibility, much smaller team to start, and who knows, it could launch and be a future mega corp making me richer than i'd ever imagine... or it could fizzle, and my 3 year contract expires, and i'm on the street.

I'm trying to weigh if it's worth the "risk" to get paid more and build a business from scratch (with tons of back office help/function), or stay where I am pretty bored, unmotivated, just waiting to retire which is probably 20 years away...

to OP, you only live once, i'd at least interview, get offers, then make a legit decision.
What is the business related to?

Why are you 20 years away from retiring if you make 500k?
FootballFan5548
Posts: 287
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by FootballFan5548 »

Nathan Drake wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:17 am
FootballFan5548 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:01 am I'm in a pretty similar position as the original poster... but at considerably less numbers. I'm upper 30's. I'm at a megacorp job. I'm running a great group of 20+ people and a very sizeable book of business I manage countrywide. Genuinely like what I do, paid well, love my team, but feeling a little bit bored since I've been in the same place for 13+ years building this thing out. We've gone from $10M to $400M in 13 years. My pay has increased over the time and i'm making about $500k all in between salary, bonus, stock. I have 400k of stock unvested outstanding. WFH has been great, but the hour plus commute and daily grind will be starting up again soon.

I was approached by a private equity fund to start up a brand new company with tons of back office support through a holding company. I'd own 30% of this new venture, PE firm would own 70% (they own the holding company). I could launch this new venture with some of my closest coworkers now, we'd all get paid much more, we'd all have 3 year contracts, they'd pay out our unvested stock in cash. And i'd have 30% equity... of whatever I build. I'd need to do it all to start, it would be a clean slate, it would be far from boring...

I could do my job now in my sleep, my team does most of the stuff for me and I review/approve/meet with clients.

This new job would be an uptick in work, uptick in overall responsibility, much smaller team to start, and who knows, it could launch and be a future mega corp making me richer than i'd ever imagine... or it could fizzle, and my 3 year contract expires, and i'm on the street.

I'm trying to weigh if it's worth the "risk" to get paid more and build a business from scratch (with tons of back office help/function), or stay where I am pretty bored, unmotivated, just waiting to retire which is probably 20 years away...

to OP, you only live once, i'd at least interview, get offers, then make a legit decision.
What is the business related to?

Why are you 20 years away from retiring if you make 500k?

It's commercial insurance, somewhat of a specialty niche, i'm at one of the best specialty companies now, and i'd leave to start out my own underwriting shop. Never know who reads these things, so I can't go into too much more detail unless you have more detailed questions.


I make 510k all in. 270k salary, 120 cash bonus, 120 stock bonus that vests over 5 years.... so really 390k cash. We live in HCOL area, I have young kids 6/4, i'm only 38. I have 2M net worth, but we're still not considering retirement until i'm 50 or later.

New company would pay me 3 year contract, 400k salary, 75% bonus target, 30% equity of company I build. Could be 700k cash annually, plus the building equity we could potentially sell for multiples if we ever grow big enough.
oilrig
Posts: 234
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by oilrig »

FootballFan5548 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:34 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:17 am
FootballFan5548 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:01 am I'm in a pretty similar position as the original poster... but at considerably less numbers. I'm upper 30's. I'm at a megacorp job. I'm running a great group of 20+ people and a very sizeable book of business I manage countrywide. Genuinely like what I do, paid well, love my team, but feeling a little bit bored since I've been in the same place for 13+ years building this thing out. We've gone from $10M to $400M in 13 years. My pay has increased over the time and i'm making about $500k all in between salary, bonus, stock. I have 400k of stock unvested outstanding. WFH has been great, but the hour plus commute and daily grind will be starting up again soon.

I was approached by a private equity fund to start up a brand new company with tons of back office support through a holding company. I'd own 30% of this new venture, PE firm would own 70% (they own the holding company). I could launch this new venture with some of my closest coworkers now, we'd all get paid much more, we'd all have 3 year contracts, they'd pay out our unvested stock in cash. And i'd have 30% equity... of whatever I build. I'd need to do it all to start, it would be a clean slate, it would be far from boring...

I could do my job now in my sleep, my team does most of the stuff for me and I review/approve/meet with clients.

This new job would be an uptick in work, uptick in overall responsibility, much smaller team to start, and who knows, it could launch and be a future mega corp making me richer than i'd ever imagine... or it could fizzle, and my 3 year contract expires, and i'm on the street.

I'm trying to weigh if it's worth the "risk" to get paid more and build a business from scratch (with tons of back office help/function), or stay where I am pretty bored, unmotivated, just waiting to retire which is probably 20 years away...

to OP, you only live once, i'd at least interview, get offers, then make a legit decision.
What is the business related to?

Why are you 20 years away from retiring if you make 500k?

It's commercial insurance, somewhat of a specialty niche, i'm at one of the best specialty companies now, and i'd leave to start out my own underwriting shop. Never know who reads these things, so I can't go into too much more detail unless you have more detailed questions.


I make 510k all in. 270k salary, 120 cash bonus, 120 stock bonus that vests over 5 years.... so really 390k cash. We live in HCOL area, I have young kids 6/4, i'm only 38. I have 2M net worth, but we're still not considering retirement until i'm 50 or later.

New company would pay me 3 year contract, 400k salary, 75% bonus target, 30% equity of company I build. Could be 700k cash annually, plus the building equity we could potentially sell for multiples if we ever grow big enough.
I think this one is a no brainer just with the increased base salary + bonus. Not to mention the equity part. Do it!
shess
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by shess »

iluvlucy wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:26 pm I am sure people crossed this bridge before us. Do people look back later and wonder - what if they took the road of change and made more?
I retired from high tech four years back, in my forties, mostly because work was no longer a growth pursuit for me in skill terms, and we objectively had no need for more money. Burnout was a factor. My regrets are ALL around missed personal connections, I have zero regrets about score-keeping kinds of things. I find this somewhat odd, since I grew up in a place of want, so it took me many years to divorce myself from the idea that hard work is the entire ballgame.

To be fair, we’ve been really lucky to ride the tech wave, and then not get wiped out. Yet? I dunno, I still get nervous. But while I loved working with other people, it’s silly to work merely because other people are working and you don’t know what else to do.

IMHO, my situation would have worked out better if I had intentionally developed outside hobbies while working. I’d have stayed working for longer without burning out, so we’d have another big chunk of portfolio on our side. Also the transition to retirement would have been less abrupt.
Topic Author
iluvlucy
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by iluvlucy »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:07 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:43 am The tech numbers I’ve seen around here lately keep skyrocketing

1.4M with 2M in RSUs? For a low stress 9-5?

Just insanity. Not sure if this is common or trolling but assuming it’s genuine you could work only 1 year, move to LCOL, and live a better retirement than 95% of the country ever will.

And you have 10M+. Most will not earn 1/4 of that in a lifetime of work.
+1. I'm in 'old tech and 100% agree!
Tech has gotten crazier in last 5-6yrs. These numbers are not uncommon. By being firm bogleheads we landed here, otherwise we would be 3-5x of these numbers - riding the RSU wave. All along we slept well, waiting for this bubble to burst. In this line of work, due to money and most haven't seen downturns, everyone is on some race.
Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:05 am OP, what prevents you from working/volunteering 100% of your time towards charity and/or spirituality? Perhaps write them down. E.g. 1. Payoff debt. 2. $X for early retirement and 3. $Y for kids college and legacy.

Once you've completed the list, the next step may become very clear. Good luck. You are truly blessed with wealth!
One of the issues is - we are unable to comprehend the size of the savings. I know what small numbers feel. I understand the basis for 33x vs 50x, with margin of safety. All of this feels unreal and fake.
HenryG wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:29 am
iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm could we do better?
Yes, you could do better, but define what better means to you. Which dimension of your lives are important to optimize...and are your jobs aligned to that? Being happier, healthier and stronger? Or having bigger title, more money, etc.? Ask yourself why/why/why with your answers. How would your past/future selves likely answer these questions? If you were starting from a blank slate, what decisions would you make? Momentum and inertia are common factors.

Lots of good comments above as well.
I may sound weird, but maybe we don't feel safe with the numbers as we suspect the math of >33x and numbers are unreal? Thus we just work. It sounds like a cop out. To that end, we are attempting on live on dividends only. Mathematically, it's just mind-games and money is fungible.

I think once we break this mental barrier, we may break free to next round of things.
Nathan Drake
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Nathan Drake »

FootballFan5548 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:34 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:17 am
FootballFan5548 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:01 am I'm in a pretty similar position as the original poster... but at considerably less numbers. I'm upper 30's. I'm at a megacorp job. I'm running a great group of 20+ people and a very sizeable book of business I manage countrywide. Genuinely like what I do, paid well, love my team, but feeling a little bit bored since I've been in the same place for 13+ years building this thing out. We've gone from $10M to $400M in 13 years. My pay has increased over the time and i'm making about $500k all in between salary, bonus, stock. I have 400k of stock unvested outstanding. WFH has been great, but the hour plus commute and daily grind will be starting up again soon.

I was approached by a private equity fund to start up a brand new company with tons of back office support through a holding company. I'd own 30% of this new venture, PE firm would own 70% (they own the holding company). I could launch this new venture with some of my closest coworkers now, we'd all get paid much more, we'd all have 3 year contracts, they'd pay out our unvested stock in cash. And i'd have 30% equity... of whatever I build. I'd need to do it all to start, it would be a clean slate, it would be far from boring...

I could do my job now in my sleep, my team does most of the stuff for me and I review/approve/meet with clients.

This new job would be an uptick in work, uptick in overall responsibility, much smaller team to start, and who knows, it could launch and be a future mega corp making me richer than i'd ever imagine... or it could fizzle, and my 3 year contract expires, and i'm on the street.

I'm trying to weigh if it's worth the "risk" to get paid more and build a business from scratch (with tons of back office help/function), or stay where I am pretty bored, unmotivated, just waiting to retire which is probably 20 years away...

to OP, you only live once, i'd at least interview, get offers, then make a legit decision.
What is the business related to?

Why are you 20 years away from retiring if you make 500k?

It's commercial insurance, somewhat of a specialty niche, i'm at one of the best specialty companies now, and i'd leave to start out my own underwriting shop. Never know who reads these things, so I can't go into too much more detail unless you have more detailed questions.


I make 510k all in. 270k salary, 120 cash bonus, 120 stock bonus that vests over 5 years.... so really 390k cash. We live in HCOL area, I have young kids 6/4, i'm only 38. I have 2M net worth, but we're still not considering retirement until i'm 50 or later.

New company would pay me 3 year contract, 400k salary, 75% bonus target, 30% equity of company I build. Could be 700k cash annually, plus the building equity we could potentially sell for multiples if we ever grow big enough.
Just trying to determine the risks involved in the new opportunity.

With your current role you should be able to retire in 10 years or less assuming you can keep spending under control.

The new opportunity seems to be worth it. Significant upside. The only downside I see is that it fails. How confident are you that you could get back into your old job/role given that it is niche? If fairly easily, seems like an obvious move to me.

Of course as someone mentioned, consult with an attorney on the fine print.
Nathan Drake
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Nathan Drake »

iluvlucy wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:51 am
Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:07 am
Nathan Drake wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:43 am The tech numbers I’ve seen around here lately keep skyrocketing

1.4M with 2M in RSUs? For a low stress 9-5?

Just insanity. Not sure if this is common or trolling but assuming it’s genuine you could work only 1 year, move to LCOL, and live a better retirement than 95% of the country ever will.

And you have 10M+. Most will not earn 1/4 of that in a lifetime of work.
+1. I'm in 'old tech and 100% agree!
Tech has gotten crazier in last 5-6yrs. These numbers are not uncommon. By being firm bogleheads we landed here, otherwise we would be 3-5x of these numbers - riding the RSU wave. All along we slept well, waiting for this bubble to burst. In this line of work, due to money and most haven't seen downturns, everyone is on some race.
Wannaretireearly wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:05 am OP, what prevents you from working/volunteering 100% of your time towards charity and/or spirituality? Perhaps write them down. E.g. 1. Payoff debt. 2. $X for early retirement and 3. $Y for kids college and legacy.

Once you've completed the list, the next step may become very clear. Good luck. You are truly blessed with wealth!
One of the issues is - we are unable to comprehend the size of the savings. I know what small numbers feel. I understand the basis for 33x vs 50x, with margin of safety. All of this feels unreal and fake.
HenryG wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:29 am
iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm could we do better?
Yes, you could do better, but define what better means to you. Which dimension of your lives are important to optimize...and are your jobs aligned to that? Being happier, healthier and stronger? Or having bigger title, more money, etc.? Ask yourself why/why/why with your answers. How would your past/future selves likely answer these questions? If you were starting from a blank slate, what decisions would you make? Momentum and inertia are common factors.

Lots of good comments above as well.
I may sound weird, but maybe we don't feel safe with the numbers as we suspect the math of >33x and numbers are unreal? Thus we just work. It sounds like a cop out. To that end, we are attempting on live on dividends only. Mathematically, it's just mind-games and money is fungible.

I think once we break this mental barrier, we may break free to next round of things.
It may not seem “real” because you are riding a wave of very good fortune to earn 28x the average income in the United States.

And comparing your tech background to, say, engineering in another industry discipline for similar education/technical knowledge, you earn over 10x what someone with similar experience does.

The huge multiples do not seem real, maybe because they do not feel earned. It’s like investing in a meme stock and suddenly winning the lotto.

Regardless, you have leveraged your incredible good fortunate career wise into a stable Boglehead strategy that assuredly is very real and reliable, so do not lose sight of the fact that you can easily walk away today and be fine for the rest of your days
humblecoder
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by humblecoder »

This isn't a financial question. This is "what do I want to be when I grow up" question.

You have an 8 figure net work (without real estate) and $150K in expenses. Assuming 8 figures = $10M, your withdrawal rate is 1.5% per year. By most metrics, you could quit tomorrow, not work another day in your life and still be able to maintain your lifestyle.

So the question that you have to ask yourself is what motivates you to wake up in the morning? Is it spending time with family? Is it the challenge of your chosen occupation? Is it the enjoyment of pursuing some hobby or charitable work? Something else? Answer that question and then DO IT. You are financially independent so you have earned the right to live your life on your terms, doing what is important to you. Every day that you do something other than what motivates you is a day wasted. And you can't buy back time as much as we'd all like to do that.

I would suggest you talk to your spouse, close friend, spiritual advisor for your chosen religion, therapist, career counselor, whomever. Figure out what you want to be when you grow up. Once you know, do it. Immediately.
rage_phish
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by rage_phish »

Not a chance I hell I’d want more responsibility and stress when my i comes at that eleven already

I’d enjoy my wealth and time with my young kids

But I don’t care about work. It’s simply a means to fund the life I want to live
learningtime
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by learningtime »

My perspective has been shared by others.

At some point, purpose-related doubts or questions will keep coming up - especially if you know you don't really need to work for money for too much longer. I may not have all the fancy stuff (times 10) in the world ... but all the fancy stuff (times 10) is not going to make me happy. Assuming you have your family's needs/wants covered, you get to the point when you truly start thinking about and chasing what makes you more fulfilled/content/energized/happy.

What meets that purpose itch for you? It depends. For me, it's about impact/influence. Said another way, even if I am getting paid very well, if I feel I am not having much of an impact, it would become hard to stay. Ultimately in life, most of us will need more than a paycheck.

And, of course, it gets complicated because you pursue this "purpose" while also recognizing that the "good paycheck place" has given you a lot of coworkers/friends that you know you will miss if you move on. Nothing is ever simple or easy.

Is it a career change? Is a job change? Is it going back to school? Is it volunteer work? Is it just freedom from any type of schedule for a while? Whatever it is, it is very unique to you. If you give it some thought and figure out what is likely to lead to more contentment, you can start chasing it.
FootballFan5548
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by FootballFan5548 »

learningtime wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:25 pm My perspective has been shared by others.

At some point, purpose-related doubts or questions will keep coming up - especially if you know you don't really need to work for money for too much longer. I may not have all the fancy stuff (times 10) in the world ... but all the fancy stuff (times 10) is not going to make me happy. Assuming you have your family's needs/wants covered, you get to the point when you truly start thinking about and chasing what makes you more fulfilled/content/energized/happy.

What meets that purpose itch for you? It depends. For me, it's about impact/influence. Said another way, even if I am getting paid very well, if I feel I am not having much of an impact, it would become hard to stay. Ultimately in life, most of us will need more than a paycheck.

And, of course, it gets complicated because you pursue this "purpose" while also recognizing that the "good paycheck place" has given you a lot of coworkers/friends that you know you will miss if you move on. Nothing is ever simple or easy.

Is it a career change? Is a job change? Is it going back to school? Is it volunteer work? Is it just freedom from any type of schedule for a while? Whatever it is, it is very unique to you. If you give it some thought and figure out what is likely to lead to more contentment, you can start chasing it.
This was a great post, and something I'll really need to consider as I move forward with my decision. Thank for writing this
EnerJi
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by EnerJi »

I'm not sure if I missed it above, but has OP mentioned how their net worth is allocated? If the vast majority of their 8-figure NW is in company stock, they might sleep better at night selling it and re-allocating into a more diversified portfolio.

It also wasn't clear to me whether the OP and their spouse work for the SAME big tech company or two different companies. If it's the same company, then re-allocating would be even more urgent, but even working for different companies it would be wise to not keep most of one's net worth in company stock.
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8foot7
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by 8foot7 »

Alto Astral wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:34 pm Move. Mid-to-late 40s is nothing. Tech hiring is insane now; ride this wave. You can rest when the market corrects the next time. Interview whole-heartedly. You know you want to move. Interviewing is not trivial and you are already doing it. I don't think of it as keeping score. Just be the best version of what you are. And you can still have a good WLB at the new job, talk to the team members about their work hours before committing to a team. Its always worth the move!
LOL. 8 figures and you're supposed to "ride the wave."

At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel Catch-22 over its whole history.

Heller responds,“Yes, but I have something he will never have — ENOUGH.”
learningtime
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by learningtime »

FootballFan5548 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:45 pm
learningtime wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:25 pm My perspective has been shared by others.

At some point, purpose-related doubts or questions will keep coming up - especially if you know you don't really need to work for money for too much longer. I may not have all the fancy stuff (times 10) in the world ... but all the fancy stuff (times 10) is not going to make me happy. Assuming you have your family's needs/wants covered, you get to the point when you truly start thinking about and chasing what makes you more fulfilled/content/energized/happy.

What meets that purpose itch for you? It depends. For me, it's about impact/influence. Said another way, even if I am getting paid very well, if I feel I am not having much of an impact, it would become hard to stay. Ultimately in life, most of us will need more than a paycheck.

And, of course, it gets complicated because you pursue this "purpose" while also recognizing that the "good paycheck place" has given you a lot of coworkers/friends that you know you will miss if you move on. Nothing is ever simple or easy.

Is it a career change? Is a job change? Is it going back to school? Is it volunteer work? Is it just freedom from any type of schedule for a while? Whatever it is, it is very unique to you. If you give it some thought and figure out what is likely to lead to more contentment, you can start chasing it.
This was a great post, and something I'll really need to consider as I move forward with my decision. Thank for writing this
Glad you found it helpful. All the best.
vrr106
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by vrr106 »

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm We both work in tech, mid-to-late 40s VHCOL, with a NW(w.o housing) touching 8 digits. Kids(2) in middle/high school - well stocked 529s in place. Yearly income is around $1.4m, expenses around 150k and we are blessed. Mortgage pending is 500k and this will be forever home - due to people, place and surroundings. Over the next 2 yrs, we would have additional $2m coming from options/RSUs.

Career wise, we probably have saturated in our positions and possibly not challenged or under leveled(at least one of us). Work is 9-5(manageable stress), but there is nagging concern - could we do better? Also, when we look at others(more successful, or could become successful career wise) in peer group, we kind of wonder, couldn't we stretch and try? Even though the money brings no value and may actually take away time. Yes, there is also scorekeeping in terms of money made - but no one exchanges scores, just a perception of scores being made.

We both are being approached by peer companies and are interviewing - half heartedly. Yeah, the work may be slightly better. If both of us jump ship, it may increase by $300k-$400k - of course with increase time pressure and whole new place. Is this worth it? How do people deal with internal greed, vs desire to do even better vs rest/vest and ride it to sunset. Is this a form of rat-race we are getting in to?

How to folks deal with scenarios like this and settle at a place?
If one of you is under-leveled, sounds like that one should be interviewing harder and the other one keeping the NW steadily increasing, even if not at the same rate and also making sure any work-life changes can be balanced. Sometimes I feel like 90% of the "perceptions" - scorekeeping, greed, etc. are from living in VCHOL and working in tech. That doesn't mean you move, it just means it doesn't represent the country or world.
interwebopinion
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by interwebopinion »

iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm Also, when we look at others(more successful, or could become successful career wise) in peer group, we kind of wonder, couldn't we stretch and try?
My 2c - don't measure yourself against your peers. It's a pointless game, mostly because even if you exceed them, there will be another set above them with even more money. Mountains on mountains arise.

I would suggest you measure yourself by the positive impact you can have on society. There are many burning issues of our time that could benefit from your prior experience and would align with your values. Pursue them with vigor and passion and strive to make a positive dent in the universe.
cbs2002
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by cbs2002 »

Best comments in this thread are about values and death. i won't repeat that eloquent advice.

I'd quit as soon as diplomatically appropriate with half your resources. I'd spend loads of time with my family and use remaining down time to research and decide on new opportunities to improve the lives of others and make myself happy. The world is huge and life is short. What a gift this would be!
LittleMaggieMae
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

This thread has covered "enough" and "self actualization" and figuring out "core values".

Here's another take on "enough", "self actualization" and figuring out "core values":

But maybe another thing is for the OP consider how they will be remembered by future generations. Working and making lots of money is great - but who's life did you change or influence? who became a better person because of you? Who discovered a new "joy" in ldife because of you?

Sure it's great to have more money than you can ever spend and to keep growing that money into ever bigger piles of money!!! But what does it matter if no one has fond memories of things you did together? or if you didn't change anyone's life for the better? What if after you are dead and gone no one really cares (beyond your kids - cause you were "mom" and "dad" but will they really have those important memories of "closeness" with you if you were always at work or thinking about how your family measures up to other families (keeping score). ).

Money can buy you a sort of "immortality" if something is named after you. Spending meaningful time with people (or giving them the opportunity to do something that broadens their horizon or gives them the opportunity to make their life better or to see how to make their life better) is another way to get a sort of "immortality". They will carry the memories with them and possibly their experience/change will filter down to their own family/friends.

Yes, having and maintaining and growing big piles of money is great... but at the end of the day I don't think it comes down to how big your bank account is as to weather you are a good human being or not or weather you will be remembered well or not.

Self Actualize.
Dave55
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 pm

Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Dave55 »

LittleMaggieMae wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:13 pm This thread has covered "enough" and "self actualization" and figuring out "core values".

Here's another take on "enough", "self actualization" and figuring out "core values":

But maybe another thing is for the OP consider how they will be remembered by future generations. Working and making lots of money is great - but who's life did you change or influence? who became a better person because of you? Who discovered a new "joy" in ldife because of you?

Sure it's great to have more money than you can ever spend and to keep growing that money into ever bigger piles of money!!! But what does it matter if no one has fond memories of things you did together? or if you didn't change anyone's life for the better? What if after you are dead and gone no one really cares (beyond your kids - cause you were "mom" and "dad" but will they really have those important memories of "closeness" with you if you were always at work or thinking about how your family measures up to other families (keeping score). ).

Money can buy you a sort of "immortality" if something is named after you. Spending meaningful time with people (or giving them the opportunity to do something that broadens their horizon or gives them the opportunity to make their life better or to see how to make their life better) is another way to get a sort of "immortality". They will carry the memories with them and possibly their experience/change will filter down to their own family/friends.

Yes, having and maintaining and growing big piles of money is great... but at the end of the day I don't think it comes down to how big your bank account is as to weather you are a good human being or not or weather you will be remembered well or not.

Self Actualize.
The other problem with big piles of money is, there are only so many Franklin's that will fit in your pine box.

Dave
"Reality always wins, your only job is to get in touch with it." Wilfred Bion
Ron Ronnerson
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

There have been many excellent comments already but just thought I’d share my story as this topic is dear to my heart. Realizing that time is more valuable than money once basic needs are met resulted in a total paradigm shift for me. I came to this conclusion in my mid-20s. I was thinking back on my life and just couldn’t believe that somewhere between a quarter to a third of it was over in what seemed like the blink of an eye. At that point, I had already gotten an MBA and was doing interesting work at a corporation in which I was steadily moving up the ladder.

I decided to return back to school to become a teacher and have been teaching 5th graders for the past couple of decades.

I have plenty of money to live comfortably while the time that I gained as a result of changing paths has been monumental. I have half the days of the year off and can enjoy time with family. I’m actually typing this while sitting on a beach while my wife and daughter build a sandcastle (I’m going to join them soon).

The other half of the days of the year, I get to help kids learn. The work is both enjoyable and meaningful. The days working are as good as the days off. If I happened to win the lottery, I’d still show up to work the next day.

To me, legacy and wealth are not primarily about money but instead how I can help make a difference during my lifetime while also having time to enjoy myself. There are many ways to do that and I’m glad that I found one of those paths a while back.

I wish you all the best on your journey. Half your life is over (I can say that since I’m the same age as you, OP). Make the most of the remaining time - however that may be for you.
Topic Author
iluvlucy
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by iluvlucy »

learningtime wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:25 pm
Is it a career change? Is a job change? Is it going back to school? Is it volunteer work? Is it just freedom from any type of schedule for a while? Whatever it is, it is very unique to you. If you give it some thought and figure out what is likely to lead to more contentment, you can start chasing it.
interwebopinion wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:32 pm
iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm Also, when we look at others(more successful, or could become successful career wise) in peer group, we kind of wonder, couldn't we stretch and try?
My 2c - don't measure yourself against your peers. It's a pointless game, mostly because even if you exceed them, there will be another set above them with even more money. Mountains on mountains arise.

I would suggest you measure yourself by the positive impact you can have on society. There are many burning issues of our time that could benefit from your prior experience and would align with your values. Pursue them with vigor and passion and strive to make a positive dent in the universe.
interwebopinion wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:32 pm
iluvlucy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:30 pm Also, when we look at others(more successful, or could become successful career wise) in peer group, we kind of wonder, couldn't we stretch and try?
My 2c - don't measure yourself against your peers. It's a pointless game, mostly because even if you exceed them, there will be another set above them with even more money. Mountains on mountains arise.

I would suggest you measure yourself by the positive impact you can have on society. There are many burning issues of our time that could benefit from your prior experience and would align with your values. Pursue them with vigor and passion and strive to make a positive dent in the universe.
There is a moral quandary too. Suppose we are doing well, what is our responsibility to support kids(post undergrad/grad education), elders, others around us and continue to do what we do - to support what if scenario's for them. They say charity begins at home, how far does it extend to relatives too? Of-course whatever is left is for kids - doing and giving more will take away there their motivation too. People 1 degree off, say brother/sister/friends, who may not be so fortunate - what is our responsibility?
Topic Author
iluvlucy
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:46 am

Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by iluvlucy »

LittleMaggieMae wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:13 pm This thread has covered "enough" and "self actualization" and figuring out "core values".

Here's another take on "enough", "self actualization" and figuring out "core values":

But maybe another thing is for the OP consider how they will be remembered by future generations. Working and making lots of money is great - but who's life did you change or influence? who became a better person because of you? Who discovered a new "joy" in ldife because of you?

Sure it's great to have more money than you can ever spend and to keep growing that money into ever bigger piles of money!!! But what does it matter if no one has fond memories of things you did together? or if you didn't change anyone's life for the better? What if after you are dead and gone no one really cares (beyond your kids - cause you were "mom" and "dad" but will they really have those important memories of "closeness" with you if you were always at work or thinking about how your family measures up to other families (keeping score). ).

Money can buy you a sort of "immortality" if something is named after you. Spending meaningful time with people (or giving them the opportunity to do something that broadens their horizon or gives them the opportunity to make their life better or to see how to make their life better) is another way to get a sort of "immortality". They will carry the memories with them and possibly their experience/change will filter down to their own family/friends.

Yes, having and maintaining and growing big piles of money is great... but at the end of the day I don't think it comes down to how big your bank account is as to weather you are a good human being or not or weather you will be remembered well or not.

Self Actualize.
Great insights here.
Out attitude has changed about spending for experiences with kids - and quite happy about it. There is more we splurge on ourself(in terms of experiences) that we ever did in last 10 yrs. I can see our social circle and part(s) of our life will change as soon we get over our mental block of where we are and where we decide to go. At this point, the default is maintaining status-quo, but certainly not happy with it. Inertia vs fear of unknown and comfort with what we know vs discomfort of what the change could bring.
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beyou
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Re: career move or rest/vest?

Post by beyou »

I would take the $ and book a space flight !

Seriously, I worked my butt off through my 40s and in my 50s had enough. The grass isn’t always greener.
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