So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Skiffy
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:13 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Skiffy »

My nephew just died. He was 29. He did not name beneficiaries on any of his 401k or other accounts. So YOUBG or OLD check your account beneficiaries, have a simple will.
Mysterious
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:08 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Mysterious »

Simplifying your finances is the one thing I have learned.

Also, make sure all the accounts have a POD to your beneficiaries. All of them. Not just one that is around. Don't put one of your kids in that position. Put everyone on every financial account and let the banker navigate.

In a week after death, everything but real estate was completed for my parents. We had no issue with any of the bills. All the service providers were happy to transfer the bill to another name and account. Granted we only had a power company to deal with. Yes, that was it.

Deceased had a will but only the lawyer for the real estate holdings wanted to have a copy. Then, we were told it wouldn't matter as the judge will make the same decision.

When looking for accounts, assets, etc. I second the obvious spots. Also, the vehicles held titles and such. The biggest issue we had was safety deposit boxes. Luckily there was a living person on all of them and they had keys. If not, court would have happened and they would have been sealed until then. Do not put wills in safety deposit boxes.

My second advise is to keep beneficiaries small. If you want cousin tommy to have 5k give that to him today. Don't put it in the will. Those closing up your life are grieving as well and don't want to spend time trying to chase down beneficiaries.

All of this is state dependent and I would say city dependent. We had an instance where one banker told us to go to another bank in town because she thought the deceased had an account there. They did with a significant amount. At that point we went to all the banks in town just to make sure.

I was so thankful that none of this was dependent on electronic passwords and such. Frankly I needed a real live person at each financial institution helping us. We sat in chairs and the brought us bank checks.

Now life insurance is a different game. Very difficult to find the companies. Then, you have to list everyone you think could be a beneficiary and if it matches they get the check. So far, no life insurance policy will tell us the beneficiary straight out. We are going to lose two policies ($500) because all the beneficiaries are deceased and we were told we have to open probate on the beneficiary if deceased. But, again, no name given so catch 22. I was told if the beneficiary was a living spouse it is very easy. When spouse is also deceased it becomes more complicated.
WhyNotUs
Posts: 2606
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:38 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by WhyNotUs »

A couple thoughts based on lessons learned:

• If you are trying something like a life insurance trust to avoid estate taxes, take the time to make sure that it is set up properly and the ongoing payments are made properly. It is not a passive strategy. Getting it 75% right will not do you much good.
• If you have a "secret" investment, off-shore account, business interest, etc. provide that info to your attorney to be opened by the executor upon death.

We leave this earth in different manners, from abrupt accidents to slow painful deaths, and one may not have the capacity to disclose info in the moment.

Finding bills is somewhat easier as long as one has passwords to all accounts finding assets can be harder work. There is also a legal cure period for debts as long as one makes diligent efforts and provides notice as required by law. There is less incentive for someone to help you find assets and none if the owner wanted them to be secret.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
bsteiner
Posts: 9151
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:39 pm
Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by bsteiner »

Mysterious wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:22 am ... make sure all the accounts have a POD to your beneficiaries. ....
Except for life insurance, retirement benefits and small amounts, we generally do the opposite.

TOD can defeat a well-designed estate plan.

Our clients generally provide for their children in separate trusts rather than outright, to keep their inheritances out of their estates for estate tax purposes, and to protect their inheritances from their creditors and spouses, and Medicaid.

If too much passes by TOD, there may not be enough money in the estate to pay debts, taxes, expenses and cash bequests. The cash bequests will fail unless a TOD beneficiary disclaims or makes gifts. If one TOD beneficiary doesn't contribute his/her share of the money needed to pay debts, taxes and expenses, the executors will have to chase him/her, or the other TOD beneficiaries will have to contribute more than their share.
WhyNotUs wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:26 am ... If you are trying something like a life insurance trust to avoid estate taxes, take the time to make sure that it is set up properly ....

If you have a "secret" investment, off-shore account, business interest, etc. provide that info to your attorney to be opened by the executor upon death. ...
There aren't many insurance trusts being created these days, since there aren't very many people rich enough to pay estate tax but poor enough to need life insurance. There are some, since there are other reasons for having life insurance in particular cases, and since some states have state estate taxes with lower exclusion amounts than the Federal.

We've had several estates where the decedent had unreported offshore accounts. They were interesting to say the least.
User avatar
F150HD
Posts: 3926
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:49 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by F150HD »

jebmke wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:44 am One part of a good answer is to keep things as simple as possible. Every time I get a chance I try to simplify the entire financial situation. I took more steps during the pandemic - partly because I had time on my hands and partly because of the increased risk that it matters.

The financial part was already pretty easy and done. One investment custodian, two banks, three credit cards.
+1 simple is best. Lower probability of error or failure.

_____________

one person I talked to once stated they have an 'encrypted' file or folder on some secret drive. It sounded ridiculously confusing for Joe Average to find and decipher if their family member passed.

At that, encrypting something with software that may or may not exist (?) X years down the road has me concerned....an encrypted file is of use to no one if they cannot decrypt it. (Am no authority on this, though someone else may be, I welcome their opinion)

Fidelity has Fidsafe https://www.fidsafe.com/ though many worry about security....outside of that one wonders if that could 'disappear' in X years leaving you in the same position you were in before using it. Dunno?

Wondering if anyone uses it? If so a review would be useful.
User avatar
Eagle33
Posts: 2383
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:20 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Eagle33 »

Christine Benz's recent article for How to Create a Master Directory - This valuable document can help you see what you own, and serves as a crucial estate planning tool, too. It is one of the 7 Items Your Estate Plan May Have Left Out,
anoop
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:33 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by anoop »

the title is a bit funny. it reads as if it is about how the guy that killed you finds all your accounts & bills. :)
Luckywon
Posts: 2406
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:33 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Luckywon »

anoop wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 pm the title is a bit funny. it reads as if it is about how the guy that killed you finds all your accounts & bills. :)
:D :D :D Absolutely hilarious!!!
manatee2005
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by manatee2005 »

phxjcc wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:55 pm My spouse knows where everything is, including a "just in case" letter that has all the bills and bank account info.
A spreadsheet is kept by both of use regarding bills and what gets paid by what account and how...push/pull, when and how much and what account.

If we both die, I don't care.

What's the worse that can happen?

My credit rating takes a hit?
The utilities are turned off?
The insurance gets cancelled?
Gardner's and pool men not get paid?

None of this will happen as the paying accounts are on autopilot for at least 6 months.
We each keep one [interested paying] income/cash account that feeds the paying accounts, this is automated.
{Not on Autopilot--->Medicare Insurance, because of the nightmare I went through with Blue Cross when a relative died and it took 5 months to get $329 back from those *expletive'ing* "expletives"; eventually writing to the CLO and threatening litigation.}
One paying account per property--so that the Chateau in the Loire will not impact the Caribbean private island and that will not impact the ranch in Jackson Hole nor the golf house on 17 mile drive.
:beer
The cash accounts will *maybe* run out of money eventually--as SS and pensions get terminated on death.
However, they are fed by RMD's and rental income.

Heirs can figure it out.

If not, I won't care.


Note: Some//many BH'ers will say that I am wasting a lot of interest/earning capacity as I keep 6 months of run rate in cash.

Fine--but I don't care.
:shock:

I sleep fine--and don't need to worry if I have enough to cover expenses.

I recommend this approach.
By heirs do you mean your kids?
manatee2005
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by manatee2005 »

anoop wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 pm the title is a bit funny. it reads as if it is about how the guy that killed you finds all your accounts & bills. :)
I wonder if somebody from Netflix is reading this thread.
manatee2005
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by manatee2005 »

Mysterious wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:22 am Simplifying your finances is the one thing I have learned.
I was just thinking how will my wife or kids handle all my crypto wallets with 2FA tied to my phone.
manatee2005
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by manatee2005 »

Skiffy wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:16 am My nephew just died. He was 29. He did not name beneficiaries on any of his 401k or other accounts. So YOUBG or OLD check your account beneficiaries, have a simple will.
Sorry for your loss. In this case do the 401ks go to next of kin which are parents? When I was single I just assumed it would go to my parents, but I named them anyways cos my custodian forced us.
manatee2005
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by manatee2005 »

SimonJester wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:42 pm
We searched for weeks for a life insurance policy that he supposedly had that we never did find... Who knows.
Could you have hired a lawyer to find it? Or private investigator?
User avatar
LilyFleur
Posts: 3497
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:36 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by LilyFleur »

bsteiner wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:16 am
Mysterious wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:22 am ... make sure all the accounts have a POD to your beneficiaries. ....
Except for life insurance, retirement benefits and small amounts, we generally do the opposite.

TOD can defeat a well-designed estate plan.

Our clients generally provide for their children in separate trusts rather than outright, to keep their inheritances out of their estates for estate tax purposes, and to protect their inheritances from their creditors and spouses, and Medicaid.

If too much passes by TOD, there may not be enough money in the estate to pay debts, taxes, expenses and cash bequests. The cash bequests will fail unless a TOD beneficiary disclaims or makes gifts. If one TOD beneficiary doesn't contribute his/her share of the money needed to pay debts, taxes and expenses, the executors will have to chase him/her, or the other TOD beneficiaries will have to contribute more than their share.
WhyNotUs wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:26 am ... If you are trying something like a life insurance trust to avoid estate taxes, take the time to make sure that it is set up properly ....

If you have a "secret" investment, off-shore account, business interest, etc. provide that info to your attorney to be opened by the executor upon death. ...
There aren't many insurance trusts being created these days, since there aren't very many people rich enough to pay estate tax but poor enough to need life insurance. There are some, since there are other reasons for having life insurance in particular cases, and since some states have state estate taxes with lower exclusion amounts than the Federal.

We've had several estates where the decedent had unreported offshore accounts. They were interesting to say the least.
How does this function with nursing home bills? I have seen threads on this forum where children want to not pay for nice nursing homes for their ill parent, but want to inherit everything. It was my feeling (and my sister's) that my parents worked hard for their money, and they deserved the very best nursing home care. They were both private people and did not want to share a room with a stranger in a nursing home. They both actually needed a private-pay helper at the nursing home at some point, because of various reasons. Most folks don't realize how expensive the care for dementia is. One of my parents was in a cast and because of dementia, could not remember not to get out of the bed, and the nursing home didn't have staff to be right there by the bed, just in case. I was there when it happened. My parent was almost out of the bed (was still quite strong physically having broken her ankle on the way back from Pilates), and her caregiver ran around the bed, physically stood next to the bed, and gently reminded her that her ankle was broken and she needed to stay in the bed. I don't think Medicaid would have provided this level of care.

Anything that was left was our inheritance.
OverAnalyze
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:01 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by OverAnalyze »

My brother was able to pull a credit report for my mother based on information we had available, that was very helpful in identifying all the different accounts.
Mysterious
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:08 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Mysterious »

bsteiner wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:16 am
Mysterious wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:22 am ... make sure all the accounts have a POD to your beneficiaries. ....
Except for life insurance, retirement benefits and small amounts, we generally do the opposite.

TOD can defeat a well-designed estate plan.

Our clients generally provide for their children in separate trusts rather than outright, to keep their inheritances out of their estates for estate tax purposes, and to protect their inheritances from their creditors and spouses, and Medicaid.

If too much passes by TOD, there may not be enough money in the estate to pay debts, taxes, expenses and cash bequests. The cash bequests will fail unless a TOD beneficiary disclaims or makes gifts. If one TOD beneficiary doesn't contribute his/her share of the money needed to pay debts, taxes and expenses, the executors will have to chase him/her, or the other TOD beneficiaries will have to contribute more than their share.

***Yes! Valid points. Thank you for adding this to the post. I have the privilege of 20/20 hindsight on my particular position. But, trying to plan for all scenarios is quite difficult and thus estate planning is necessary.

Called all the beneficiaries I am working with and thanked them for being so helpful and easy to work with as I can see how awful this can become pretty fast.
egrets
Posts: 888
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: Rhode Island

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by egrets »

Traveller wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:36 pm I keep a binder in my home office that includes all relevant info including accounts, contacts, insurance, copy of our wills, passwords, combo to the safe, our budget (which shows all our monthly bills), etc. My spouse and siblings know where it is.
Also real estate owned details, pet info, car info, copies of last several years tax returns fed and state and supporting receipts etc. I have this in my house and in a safe deposit box. The executor/trustee has a copy minus the passwords and account numbers; of course I trust him but I don't trust some random burglar. I have this backed up on thumb drives. The successor executor/trustees have copies of the will and trust and a list of everything in the safe deposit box.
User avatar
Doom&Gloom
Posts: 5398
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

After following this thread, I went back and updated my instructions. Thanks for the nudge, OP.

In my case the process is making certain that someone is able to access my PC or laptop, navigate my primary KeePass password manager database, and locate a few key folders on my PC and in my email accounts. If they can do that, they are home (and practically legwork) free. If not, someone will have to do things the old-fashioned (and very time consuming) way.

Leaving other instructions or recommendations that they will hopefully follow is relatively easy after ensuring that the above steps are accomplished. At least it is in my case, YMMV, of course.
User avatar
LilyFleur
Posts: 3497
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:36 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by LilyFleur »

My house and car are TOD. My accounts have beneficiaries in place.

Part of my financial planning goals have been to streamline my assets to make it easier for my children, and I made two moves in 2020 to do that.

I also try to keep my footprint small and well-organized. I don't have a mini-storage and try to keep the contents of my modest home well-curated. (I inherited a mini-storage, and that was pure hell.) It is on my list to go through the family photos and have a scanning service scan only the best ones, and then organize them on some sort of electronic media for my children.

I recently made my son co-owner of my checking and savings accounts at my credit union and made a decision to keep enough cash in there so he could keep paying bills on my home and pay for my cremation and funeral.

I set up my will and power of attorneys and advanced health care directive in 2017. It will be time to review all of that in a year or two, probably. The original is kept in my safety deposit box, and my son has a key and legal access.
tibbitts
Posts: 23589
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by tibbitts »

F150HD wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:52 am
jebmke wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:44 am One part of a good answer is to keep things as simple as possible. Every time I get a chance I try to simplify the entire financial situation. I took more steps during the pandemic - partly because I had time on my hands and partly because of the increased risk that it matters.

The financial part was already pretty easy and done. One investment custodian, two banks, three credit cards.
+1 simple is best. Lower probability of error or failure.

_____________

one person I talked to once stated they have an 'encrypted' file or folder on some secret drive. It sounded ridiculously confusing for Joe Average to find and decipher if their family member passed.

At that, encrypting something with software that may or may not exist (?) X years down the road has me concerned....an encrypted file is of use to no one if they cannot decrypt it. (Am no authority on this, though someone else may be, I welcome their opinion)

Fidelity has Fidsafe https://www.fidsafe.com/ though many worry about security....outside of that one wonders if that could 'disappear' in X years leaving you in the same position you were in before using it. Dunno?

Wondering if anyone uses it? If so a review would be useful.
I've had a Fidsafe account for years, but don't use it for anything estate-related that someone else has to access. Everything anybody would need except passwords in one cloud repository, and it's not encrypted. Passwords are in a password manager. I assume that like me, most Bogleheads have lost data because they can no longer decrypt it. And that's data you encrypted yourself with your own software. It happens. So for me that's a bridge too far. You have to weigh the risk of someone dealing with your estate not being able to access data against the probability of some unauthorized person accessing it, and the impact it would have if someone did access it.

You do need to periodically test your plan to make sure everyone who needs to can actually access your data, be it your passwords in your password manager, or data in the cloud.
Topic Author
miket29
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by miket29 »

I appreciate everyone who responded and I've learned a few things. I put a printout of all my passwords in my safe deposit box that both a brother and me are listed as owners so he should have access. I updated my list of accounts to list everything I can think of since so much is autobill or emailed bill. After reading a few replies I also put in mention of things I *don't* have so they don't waste time looking for them such as life insurance policies or storage lockers. And I set up a calendar reminder to review/update things annually.
coastalhiker
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:14 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by coastalhiker »

jpsfranks wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:03 am Some password managers (e.g. LastPass, Bitwarden) have an "Emergency Access" feature where you designate a contact who can request access to your vault in the event of an emergency. An access request from an emergency contact will generate a notification to you. If you are around to receive the notification you can approve or deny it. If you do not respond (say because you are dead/incapacitated) then access is granted automatically after a waiting period.
Yes, this. In addition to passwords, you can store notes. So I have a family subscription. My husband, sisters and sister-in-law are members. I have a shared folder with my husband for utilities, etc., and have him and my sister (who is our primary executor) designated as emergency contacts for my personal stuff. I also have a shared folder with my sisters and sister-in-law, where we store notes on things related to things my mom occasionally needs help with, like her apartment manager's phone number and her wi-fi password.

I like this solution because it documents accounts and keeps itself updated (when I change a password or add an account, it's captured there). And it keeps everyone autonomous: we have separate access and maintain our own personal things, but we can see shared items and allow access if needed.
jt90505
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:10 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by jt90505 »

Good thread. Motivated me to update my list of accounts.
User avatar
Halicar
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:41 am
Location: Midwest

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Halicar »

What is the correct way for my next-of-kin to close credit cards or memberships like Amazon Prime or Spotify? I'm assuming (at least in the case of credit cards) that they are not supposed to log into the account as me to close them. Are they supposed to call or send a letter somewhere? I'm not seeing any info on this on the websites of my credit cards.

EDIT: I am relatively young and in good health, but this thread has inspired me to take care of all of this in case I'm hit by the proverbial bus.
User avatar
Doom&Gloom
Posts: 5398
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Halicar wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:33 pm What is the correct way for my next-of-kin to close credit cards or memberships like Amazon Prime or Spotify? I'm assuming (at least in the case of credit cards) that they are not supposed to log into the account as me to close them. Are they supposed to call or send a letter somewhere? I'm not seeing any info on this on the websites of my credit cards.

EDIT: I am relatively young and in good health, but this thread has inspired me to take care of all of this in case I'm hit by the proverbial bus.
WAGs:
credit cards: have NOK call the phone # on the back of the card and tell them you are deceased. I feel certain they would close the cards and likely the account as well.

Unless there is reason not to do so, leaving NOK the logins/passwords to Amazon Prime and Spotify should be the simplest methods.
lazynovice
Posts: 3345
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:48 pm
Location: Denver area. Former Texan.

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by lazynovice »

Halicar wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:33 pm What is the correct way for my next-of-kin to close credit cards or memberships like Amazon Prime or Spotify? I'm assuming (at least in the case of credit cards) that they are not supposed to log into the account as me to close them. Are they supposed to call or send a letter somewhere? I'm not seeing any info on this on the websites of my credit cards.

EDIT: I am relatively young and in good health, but this thread has inspired me to take care of all of this in case I'm hit by the proverbial bus.
Good question. This article says there are usually special departments for that. If it is not on the website, I guess you just call.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/credit ... ter-death/
cbeck
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:28 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by cbeck »

Halicar wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:33 pm What is the correct way for my next-of-kin to close credit cards or memberships like Amazon Prime or Spotify? I'm assuming (at least in the case of credit cards) that they are not supposed to log into the account as me to close them. Are they supposed to call or send a letter somewhere? I'm not seeing any info on this on the websites of my credit cards.
Can one provide for an authorized user to inherit the credit card account after the owner of the account has died?
gtd98765
Posts: 952
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:15 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by gtd98765 »

How I dealt with credit cards as executor:

A correspondence address was on the back of each card. I wrote a letter saying the owner had died, customized with the account number for each bank, attached a photocopy (not certified) of the death certificate. I also included a statement that the bank should write me about any outstanding balance, which I would pay from the estate. It was all very easy and only took a few minutes. I encountered no problems with this method.
tibbitts
Posts: 23589
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by tibbitts »

Halicar wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:33 pm What is the correct way for my next-of-kin to close credit cards or memberships like Amazon Prime or Spotify? I'm assuming (at least in the case of credit cards) that they are not supposed to log into the account as me to close them. Are they supposed to call or send a letter somewhere? I'm not seeing any info on this on the websites of my credit cards.

EDIT: I am relatively young and in good health, but this thread has inspired me to take care of all of this in case I'm hit by the proverbial bus.
They might not be "supposed to" log onto the account but that's what I did and didn't think twice about it. It was a simple estate (will + trust) and I was the only beneficiary, as is probably the case for a lot of people. I'm not seeing the downside to logging in, verifying the balance as zero, and closing an account. If you have a complicated or disputed estate then obviously that might justify a different method.
oragne lovre
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by oragne lovre »

anoop wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 pm the title is a bit funny. it reads as if it is about how the guy that killed you finds all your accounts & bills. :)
The title works well; it has made me read the thread that is full of helpful tips.
The finest, albeit the most difficult, of all human achievements is being reasonable.
pasadena
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:23 am
Location: PNW

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by pasadena »

I have an Excel spreadsheet with all the info (banks, investments, bills and important contacts like my landlord and HR department) - minus login info and passwords. I update it whenever something changes.

My sister knows about it, and she knows the passwords to my phone, my computer and my password manager where she can find all the login info (including security questions) and things like my social security number. She also has a copy of the security key of said password manager so she can install the app herself and connect to it, since we don't live very close to each other and she might not have access to my computer early enough. Sharing this does take A LOT of trust.
OpenMinded1
Posts: 1568
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:27 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by OpenMinded1 »

oragne lovre wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:31 am
anoop wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 pm the title is a bit funny. it reads as if it is about how the guy that killed you finds all your accounts & bills. :)
The title works well; it has made me read the thread that is full of helpful tips.
The title does grab attention and is effective in that sense, but how will someone interested in this topic find it in the future after it's no longer visible on one of the the main pages. It doesn't work very well with the site's search function. If someone doesn't know the exact title, how will they know what words to search on to find it? For example, try just searching on "dead" and see what you come up with.

However, It did result in a great thread. :D
User avatar
Halicar
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:41 am
Location: Midwest

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Halicar »

tibbitts wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:52 am
Halicar wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:33 pm What is the correct way for my next-of-kin to close credit cards or memberships like Amazon Prime or Spotify? I'm assuming (at least in the case of credit cards) that they are not supposed to log into the account as me to close them. Are they supposed to call or send a letter somewhere? I'm not seeing any info on this on the websites of my credit cards.

EDIT: I am relatively young and in good health, but this thread has inspired me to take care of all of this in case I'm hit by the proverbial bus.
They might not be "supposed to" log onto the account but that's what I did and didn't think twice about it. It was a simple estate (will + trust) and I was the only beneficiary, as is probably the case for a lot of people. I'm not seeing the downside to logging in, verifying the balance as zero, and closing an account. If you have a complicated or disputed estate then obviously that might justify a different method.
Right. I guess what I'm realizing as I document everything is that it's a bit of a rabbit hole. Before closing any credit cards, they should cancel any service that has a recurring payment from that credit card. I can document my usernames and passwords, but I foresee them logging onto a website and getting the message "You are logging on from an unrecognized device. To verify your identity, please enter the code sent to your email." So now they need access to my email account...but to do that they need access to my phone for yet another security code...
Skiffy
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:13 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by Skiffy »

manatee2005 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:58 am
Skiffy wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:16 am My nephew just died. He was 29. He did not name beneficiaries on any of his 401k or other accounts. So YOUBG or OLD check your account beneficiaries, have a simple will.
Sorry for your loss. In this case do the 401ks go to next of kin which are parents? When I was single I just assumed it would go to my parents, but I named them anyways cos my custodian forced us.
[/quote}

Surprisingly, domestic partner, a girl he lived with for 1 1/2 years inherited the 401k. We were very surprised, I don’t think that would of been his intent.
ncbill
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Western NC

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by ncbill »

Halicar wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:33 pm What is the correct way for my next-of-kin to close credit cards or memberships like Amazon Prime or Spotify? I'm assuming (at least in the case of credit cards) that they are not supposed to log into the account as me to close them. Are they supposed to call or send a letter somewhere? I'm not seeing any info on this on the websites of my credit cards.

EDIT: I am relatively young and in good health, but this thread has inspired me to take care of all of this in case I'm hit by the proverbial bus.
My relative received a new credit card just a few days after they died, then a few weeks after that got a letter informing them the card was canceled due to them being deceased...
Topic Author
miket29
Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:07 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by miket29 »

oragne lovre wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:31 am
anoop wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:22 pm the title is a bit funny. it reads as if it is about how the guy that killed you finds all your accounts & bills. :)
The title works well; it has made me read the thread that is full of helpful tips.
Thanks! I wanted something a little out of the ordinary so modeled it after the "so you've ..." pamphlets on the Simpsons. You can see some of them at https://www.google.com/search?source=un ... %27ve+been
PluckyDucky
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:29 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by PluckyDucky »

Lee_WSP wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:24 pm You'll want an open upon death folder with all that information and then some.
This. I call it a "life book."

And the personal representative should get a credit report.
FreedomHawk
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:00 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by FreedomHawk »

I call ours "<lastname> Blueprint". It doesn't sound so depressing then, lol. This document can also be used if I were away for an extended period for some reason (work, visiting friends or family, etc.). I put a bunch of other stuff in mine like how to hook up the generator to the house, info on our wifi, etc.
tibbitts
Posts: 23589
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by tibbitts »

Halicar wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:29 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:52 am
Halicar wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:33 pm What is the correct way for my next-of-kin to close credit cards or memberships like Amazon Prime or Spotify? I'm assuming (at least in the case of credit cards) that they are not supposed to log into the account as me to close them. Are they supposed to call or send a letter somewhere? I'm not seeing any info on this on the websites of my credit cards.

EDIT: I am relatively young and in good health, but this thread has inspired me to take care of all of this in case I'm hit by the proverbial bus.
They might not be "supposed to" log onto the account but that's what I did and didn't think twice about it. It was a simple estate (will + trust) and I was the only beneficiary, as is probably the case for a lot of people. I'm not seeing the downside to logging in, verifying the balance as zero, and closing an account. If you have a complicated or disputed estate then obviously that might justify a different method.
Right. I guess what I'm realizing as I document everything is that it's a bit of a rabbit hole. Before closing any credit cards, they should cancel any service that has a recurring payment from that credit card. I can document my usernames and passwords, but I foresee them logging onto a website and getting the message "You are logging on from an unrecognized device. To verify your identity, please enter the code sent to your email." So now they need access to my email account...but to do that they need access to my phone for yet another security code...
Recently it's seemed that more text-based services are working with Google Voice numbers, so that can provide someone with relatively painless access to your texts without phone access.
FBN2014
Posts: 871
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:07 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by FBN2014 »

Can anyone recommend an estate planning organizer that can be purchased and contains everything that an executor or trustee would need to know after my death or incapacity?
"October is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks. The others are July, January, September, April, November, May March, June, December, August and February." - M. Twain
mptfan
Posts: 7201
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:58 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by mptfan »

ncbill wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:43 pm My relative received a new credit card just a few days after they died, then a few weeks after that got a letter informing them the card was canceled due to them being deceased...
Did they use the card before they were informed the card was cancelled?
ncbill
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:03 pm
Location: Western NC

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by ncbill »

mptfan wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:07 am
ncbill wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:43 pm My relative received a new credit card just a few days after they died, then a few weeks after that got a letter informing them the card was canceled due to them being deceased...
Did they use the card before they were informed the card was cancelled?
I think that's one of those "always go to other peoples' funerals, otherwise they might not come to yours"-type situations. :)
oyster99
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:41 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by oyster99 »

Halicar wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:29 am ...I can document my usernames and passwords, but I foresee them logging onto a website and getting the message "You are logging on from an unrecognized device. To verify your identity, please enter the code sent to your email." So now they need access to my email account...but to do that they need access to my phone for yet another security code...
This is a problem I'm encountering too (the issue with a financial/insurance website not recognizing the device doing the login and needing to send an authorization code in order to permit login), and I don't have a solution for it yet.
It’s a problem that didn’t exist ~5 years ago when I last updated my documents on this subject. It came into being due to the recent push for multi-factor authentication and requiring physical presence at some registered device, which your executor/trustee won't have access to.

So just giving your relative/executor/trustee a list of passwords in an encrypted document is not enough, especially if they are located in a different state (since there's no practical way they can go to your house after you've passed and do the login and get the code sent to your landline or smartphone).
This is a specific issue within the broader issue being discussed in this thread, so I think I will start a separate thread seeking ways to deal with online account access after you pass, in an age of multi-factor authentication.
backpacker61
Posts: 1608
Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 6:36 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by backpacker61 »

F150HD wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:52 am Fidelity has Fidsafe https://www.fidsafe.com/ though many worry about security....outside of that one wonders if that could 'disappear' in X years leaving you in the same position you were in before using it. Dunno?

Wondering if anyone uses it? If so a review would be useful.
I do use Fidsafe.

I have included scanned copies of my Birth Certificate, will, Durable POA, Medical POA, and Advanced Directives.

I also scanned copies of my tax returns for almost 40 years and uploaded them there (just the returns, not the supporting documentation). The main thing I have them for is all the Form 8606's for non-deductible IRA contributions that I need to have documented.
Last edited by backpacker61 on Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
tibbitts
Posts: 23589
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by tibbitts »

oyster99 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:05 am This is a specific issue within the broader issue being discussed in this thread, so I think I will start a separate thread seeking ways to deal with online account access after you pass, in an age of multi-factor authentication.
That's a good idea about another thread, although the increasing acceptance of Google Voice has helped me in that regard.

However I have another problem in that I guess I should probably just pay a few years ahead, and keep a few years ahead, on my Gmail domain name, otherwise losing it would derail my Google Voice dependency the way I have it set up now. I did document "don't let the domain name expire!" in my README, but it's probably not worth the savings. Every year I think I'll transfer my domain to somebody cheaper than GoDaddy, so I just do annual renewals - and then I never do. Even my Google Fi account is tied to my domain name (maybe a mistake, I'm not sure.)
tibbitts
Posts: 23589
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by tibbitts »

backpacker61 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:48 am
F150HD wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:52 am Fidelity has Fidsafe https://www.fidsafe.com/ though many worry about security....outside of that one wonders if that could 'disappear' in X years leaving you in the same position you were in before using it. Dunno?

Wondering if anyone uses it? If so a review would be useful.
I do use Fidsafe.

I have included scanned copies of my will, Durable POA, Medical POA, and Advanced Directives.

I also scanned copies of my tax returns for almost 40 years and uploaded them there. The main thing I have them for is all the Form 8606's for non-deductible IRA contributions that I need to have documented.
I haven't looked into that but do you really have to have all the historical 8606s? I do have them scanned, though not in the cloud other than the last five years. What about if you actually manage at some point to dispose of all your tIRAs? I do have one employer plan with a small mix of post-tax funds - I assume that's the employer's (well, their plan provider's) obligation to track, since I never have?
User avatar
warner25
Posts: 929
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by warner25 »

oyster99 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:05 am
Halicar wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:29 am ...I can document my usernames and passwords, but I foresee them logging onto a website and getting the message "You are logging on from an unrecognized device. To verify your identity, please enter the code sent to your email." So now they need access to my email account...but to do that they need access to my phone for yet another security code...
This is a problem I'm encountering too (the issue with a financial/insurance website not recognizing the device doing the login and needing to send an authorization code in order to permit login), and I don't have a solution for it yet...
Your executor or next-of-kin should not impersonate you after your death by logging into your accounts. They should instead contact the institution, send a copy of the death certificate or whatever, and let the institution follow its processes as required by law, regulation, etc. to properly transfer control. So this should not be an issue that requires a solution. I am shocked to see almost everyone in this thread describing their method for giving away credentials to their email and financial accounts.

My one exception to this is a Flickr account that is in my name but has all of our family photos uploaded and organized. I've included that username and password on a one-page document that also lists our financial institutions, the rough value of assets at each one, what to expect from my employer and Social Security and life insurance, and some details of monthly recurring bills and automatic payments.
backpacker61
Posts: 1608
Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 6:36 am

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by backpacker61 »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:03 am
backpacker61 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:48 am
F150HD wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:52 am Fidelity has Fidsafe https://www.fidsafe.com/ though many worry about security....outside of that one wonders if that could 'disappear' in X years leaving you in the same position you were in before using it. Dunno?

Wondering if anyone uses it? If so a review would be useful.
I do use Fidsafe.

I have included scanned copies of my will, Durable POA, Medical POA, and Advanced Directives.

I also scanned copies of my tax returns for almost 40 years and uploaded them there. The main thing I have them for is all the Form 8606's for non-deductible IRA contributions that I need to have documented.
I haven't looked into that but do you really have to have all the historical 8606s? I do have them scanned, though not in the cloud other than the last five years. What about if you actually manage at some point to dispose of all your tIRAs? I do have one employer plan with a small mix of post-tax funds - I assume that's the employer's (well, their plan provider's) obligation to track, since I never have?
This is from the IRS instructions for Form 8606.

I don't understand the "why" (seems to me as if only the most recent one should be necessary?).
Given it's what the instructions "say", so it's what I "do".

https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i8606

What Records Must I Keep?

To verify the nontaxable part of distributions from your IRAs, including Roth IRAs, keep a copy of the following forms and records until all distributions are made.

Page 1 of Forms 1040 or 1040-SR (or Forms 1040A, 1040-NR, or 1040-T) filed for each year you made a nondeductible contribution to a traditional IRA.

Forms 8606 and any supporting statements, attachments, and worksheets for all applicable years.

Forms 5498, IRA Contribution Information, or similar statements you received each year showing contributions you made to a traditional IRA or Roth IRA.

Forms 5498 or similar statements you received showing the value of your traditional IRAs for each year you received a distribution.

Forms 1099-R or W-2P you received for each year you received a distribution.

Note.

Forms 1040-T, 1040A, and W-2P are forms that were used in prior years.
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
oyster99
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:41 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by oyster99 »

warner25 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:09 am Your executor or next-of-kin should not impersonate you after your death by logging into your accounts. They should instead contact the institution, send a copy of the death certificate or whatever, and let the institution follow its processes as required by law, regulation, etc. to properly transfer control. So this should not be an issue that requires a solution. I am shocked to see almost everyone in this thread describing their method for giving away credentials to their email and financial accounts.
You've apparently not had to deal with this situation in real life.
This statement: "They should instead contact the institution, send a copy of the death certificate or whatever, and let the institution follow its processes as required by law, regulation, etc. to properly transfer control"
may be what some online source says is the ideal, but it's not how it works in real life.

This is a bit of a distraction from this thread so I'll be brief, but any contact with a financial institution regarding the death of a client results in the immediate and permanent locking of the account from online access. You have to assume you will never be able to access it again, even after you go through the sometimes long a painful process (it's not always as simple as you are claiming with just submitting a death certificate and ID, but that's a whole 'nuther thread discussion).

Even the financial institutions understand some flexibility is needed here, because they are aware of the death within a week via the SSA master death file or some other source, but they don't proactively close the accounts and this trusted person might continue accessing. But there's so much more that you're apparently not aware of, which justifies why certain accounts need to remain open. So you can be "shocked" all you want, but don't you dare imply there is something illegal going on with any of this.
User avatar
GerryL
Posts: 3902
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:40 pm

Re: So now you're dead -- how does your executor find all your accounts & bills?

Post by GerryL »

FBN2014 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:01 am Can anyone recommend an estate planning organizer that can be purchased and contains everything that an executor or trustee would need to know after my death or incapacity?
I've been using the Nolo book Get It Together. It includes forms and plenty of discussion about what info to include and how to store and maintain it. The book has paper copies of the forms, but you can also download digital versions.

I've been using the digital forms (password protected on my computer) which I will print out and organize in a pair of loose-leaf folders. Having the masters in digital form will make it easier to keep up dated. I have a folder for storing notes and docs for periodic updates to the binders. Rather than buying the companion binder with section dividers, I found an Avery set of 31 numbered dividers, enough for the 28 "chapters."
Post Reply