When does my state residency change?

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tomsense76
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When does my state residency change?

Post by tomsense76 »

Have moved a few times before and haven't had much trouble figuring out the answer to this question. However last year due to the pandemic and craziness at work things went less than smoothly. Am now trying to make sense of this in terms of taxes.

In 2019 I was a VA resident. In 2020 I moved to WA. Had the same employer throughout (worked remotely). Here's the rough timeline:

mid-Feb: Got an AirBnB in WA; started looking for a place
Mar: Work changed me to WA remote on the 1st; stopped VA withholding and started WA withholding (some payroll taxes here)
Mar: Signed for a storage unit for stuff to be delivered. Stuck in an AirBnB :( .
Apr: Stuff finally arrives. Placed in the storage unit.
Apr: Signed a lease and moved into the apartment.
May: Registered to vote in WA & pre-registered for license (DOL closed for a few more months still)
Aug: WA license appointment; got temporary; permanent license shows up end of the month

When am I considered a WA resident?
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leeks
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by leeks »

tomsense76 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:19 am Mar: Work changed me to WA remote on the 1st; stopped VA withholding and started WA withholding (some payroll taxes here)
Using the date your work changed the withholding will be the easiest way to go.
senex
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by senex »

According to the US Army, you change your domicile by (a) being physically in the new state, and (b) deciding, while there, that it is your new permanent home.

The linked article points out that you may need to *prove* the change of domicile. Government documents are one type of evidence, though if audited, sometimes non-administrative things, such as where your pet was living, or where you kept your most valuable artwork, is the clincher.

If you were physically in WA on Mar 1, and no longer had any possessions or address in VA, then Mar 1 seems morally safe. The auditor's position (if audited) is difficult to predict.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by RickBoglehead »

senex wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 4:34 pm According to the US Army, you change your domicile by (a) being physically in the new state, and (b) deciding, while there, that it is your new permanent home.

The linked article points out that you may need to *prove* the change of domicile. Government documents are one type of evidence, though if audited, sometimes non-administrative things, such as where your pet was living, or where you kept your most valuable artwork, is the clincher.

If you were physically in WA on Mar 1, and no longer had any possessions or address in VA, then Mar 1 seems morally safe. The auditor's position (if audited) is difficult to predict.
What does the US Army have to do with OP's question?
leeks wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:58 am
tomsense76 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 2:19 am Mar: Work changed me to WA remote on the 1st; stopped VA withholding and started WA withholding (some payroll taxes here)
Using the date your work changed the withholding will be the easiest way to go.
Unfortunately, the easiest way to go isn't how it works.



This was recently answered in another thread.

Each state determines what funds they will tax. It may, or may not, be totally date dependent.

In addition, each state determines when you become a resident. The State of Washington's website states:

Washington State residency definition

Persons are considered residents of this state for sales and use tax purposes if they take actions which indicate that they intend to live in this state on more than a temporary or transient basis. A person may be considered a resident of this state even though the person is a resident of another state.

The Department of Revenue presumes that a person is a resident of this state if he or she does any of the following:

Maintains a residence in Washington for personal use;
Lives in a motor home or vessel which is not permanently attached to any property if the person previously lived in this state and does not have a permanent residence in any other state;
Is registered to vote in this state;
Receives benefits under one of Washington's public assistance programs;
Has a state professional or business license in this state;
Is attending school in this state and paying tuition as a Washington resident or is a custodial parent with a child attending a public school in this state;
Uses a Washington address for federal or state taxes;
Has a Washington State driver's license; or
Claims Washington as a residence for obtaining a hunting or fishing license, eligibility to hold public office or for judicial actions.

Persons may rebut the presumption of residency if they provide other facts which show that they do not intend to reside in this state on either a temporary or permanent basis. A Washington resident who intends to move at a future date, however, will be considered a Washington resident.


I suspect the March 1st withholding for a Washington resident by his employer will drive it, it fits the "Uses a Washington address for federal or state taxes". The employer withheld Washington taxes because the employer knew the employee was residing in Washington and working there.

If that work started in mid-Feb in the AirBnB, then you should select that date.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by hachiko »

If you are abandoning your VA domicile, you need to look at VA's rules. WA's rules are only helpful in the sense that all states generally provide for similar considerations. But VA doesn't care about whether you're moving to WA, NY, CA, or Timbuktu (sort of). VA will apply their own statutes and interpretations.

Generally, you change domicile when you are physically present in a state and intend to remain there indefinitely. Both of those need to be true for you to have changed your domicile at that time. If you go to WA, you really like it, then head down to CA to stay with your parents for a week and decide while you're there that you're going to move to WA, and have all your stuff in VA packed up and sent to WA, you don't actually abandon your VA domicile until you physically step foot in WA again.

Determining what date that is is generally pretty easy. Proving your intent can be difficult. That's when you start to get into the "domicile factors." But these are all about *proving* your intent. They do not actually control the answer of when your domicile changed.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by chemocean »

While I was updating estate plans, I asked my WA estate attorney the same questions. WA does not have an income tax, but it has one of the lowest single exemptions for state estate tax.
He told me that you are a resident of a state of WA until you take a definitive action to indicate that you are residing in another state.
I think renting an Airbnb would not qualify. A lease would be more definitive. I would consider the act of dropping your VA state income tax withholding as the first definitive action on your list that qualifies you as a resident of the state of Washington.
As an earlier posted suggested, VA might disagree. You might want to check their guidelines.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by Jim Baround »

You don't mention when you ended ties with VA - did you end a lease or sell a house? I would say if you did those things, then as soon as you "moved" to WA (went into the Airbnb), and there was no overlap, then you can make a good case that you can consider yourself a resident of WA at that time. Keep in mind, there's no definitive answer.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by bltn »

And according to the criteria listed by Rick Boglehead, I would get a Washington state drivers license as soon as convenient.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by RickBoglehead »

bltn wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:18 pm And according to the criteria listed by Rick Boglehead, I would get a Washington state drivers license as soon as convenient.
See last bullet in OP's original post. He did it in August, but they require it within 30 days after moving to Washington, so he was late (and there was a pandemic).
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tomsense76
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by tomsense76 »

RickBoglehead wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:20 pm
bltn wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:18 pm And according to the criteria listed by Rick Boglehead, I would get a Washington state drivers license as soon as convenient.
See last bullet in OP's original post. He did it in August, but they require it within 30 days after moving to Washington, so he was late (and there was a pandemic).
Yeah sadly the DOL was closed for several months. Did pre-registration, which just populates the state's database (making it easier when actually going in), and had also called them in May to see what else I could do. However on the phone they said the offices were closed, so I could just do it once they opened. Unfortunately they didn't open for appointments until July, which filled up fast. So getting an appointment in August was the best I could do.
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tomsense76
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by tomsense76 »

Jim Baround wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:46 pm You don't mention when you ended ties with VA - did you end a lease or sell a house? I would say if you did those things, then as soon as you "moved" to WA (went into the Airbnb), and there was no overlap, then you can make a good case that you can consider yourself a resident of WA at that time. Keep in mind, there's no definitive answer.
I no longer had a lease when I arrived in WA. However I still had a storage unit in VA (got rid of that in April) and a driver's license from the state (replaced in August).

Yeah I think the lack of definitive answer is tricky since VA taxes ask for an exact date, which impacts the taxes owed. So having a definitive answer is important (even though I agree it is a bit murky).
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tomsense76
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by tomsense76 »

hachiko wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 10:40 pm If you are abandoning your VA domicile, you need to look at VA's rules. WA's rules are only helpful in the sense that all states generally provide for similar considerations. But VA doesn't care about whether you're moving to WA, NY, CA, or Timbuktu (sort of). VA will apply their own statutes and interpretations.

Generally, you change domicile when you are physically present in a state and intend to remain there indefinitely. Both of those need to be true for you to have changed your domicile at that time. If you go to WA, you really like it, then head down to CA to stay with your parents for a week and decide while you're there that you're going to move to WA, and have all your stuff in VA packed up and sent to WA, you don't actually abandon your VA domicile until you physically step foot in WA again.

Determining what date that is is generally pretty easy. Proving your intent can be difficult. That's when you start to get into the "domicile factors." But these are all about *proving* your intent. They do not actually control the answer of when your domicile changed.
It's interesting that you mention this as there was a work trip to CA in late February (in retrospect find it kind of scary I was traveling then), but was back in WA before the end of February (so before work changed my tax withholding to WA).
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tomsense76
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by tomsense76 »

chemocean wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:37 pm While I was updating estate plans, I asked my WA estate attorney the same questions. WA does not have an income tax, but it has one of the lowest single exemptions for state estate tax.
He told me that you are a resident of a state of WA until you take a definitive action to indicate that you are residing in another state.
I think renting an Airbnb would not qualify. A lease would be more definitive. I would consider the act of dropping your VA state income tax withholding as the first definitive action on your list that qualifies you as a resident of the state of Washington.
As an earlier posted suggested, VA might disagree. You might want to check their guidelines.
The best info I can find is this VA page (emphasis mine):
Part-Year Resident -- A person who moves into Virginia during the year with the intent of becoming a resident, or a person who moves out of Virginia during the year to become a resident of another state, is a part-year resident for income tax purposes. Part-year residents generally file Form 760PY.
It's not really clear what they determine as the moved out date.
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tomsense76
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by tomsense76 »

It seems the consensus is Mar 1st. This makes sense given what RickBoglehead observed from WA state residency rules and VA rules don't seem to dispute that. So will go with that.

Thanks all! :sharebeer
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by Thesaints »

Each state has its own definition and follows its own rules to determine residency. Not unheard of that both the state you left and your new state can both legally claim you as a resident for some time.
Jim Baround
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by Jim Baround »

tomsense76 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:59 pm
Jim Baround wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:46 pm You don't mention when you ended ties with VA - did you end a lease or sell a house? I would say if you did those things, then as soon as you "moved" to WA (went into the Airbnb), and there was no overlap, then you can make a good case that you can consider yourself a resident of WA at that time. Keep in mind, there's no definitive answer.
I no longer had a lease when I arrived in WA. However I still had a storage unit in VA (got rid of that in April) and a driver's license from the state (replaced in August).

Yeah I think the lack of definitive answer is tricky since VA taxes ask for an exact date, which impacts the taxes owed. So having a definitive answer is important (even though I agree it is a bit murky).
By no definitive answer, I meant more there is no specific thing you do that checks off a box that no longer makes you a resident (ie getting a license in another state doesn't definitively make you not a resident of Virginia).

However, reading the Virginia definition of a resident on their tax site it says "A person who lives in Virginia, or maintains a place of abode here", if your lease is ended (thus no abode), and you literally are not physically present in Virginia (thus, you're not living there), when you meet those conditions is when I would think you are no longer a resident of Virginia.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by FreelancerNYC »

hachiko wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 10:40 pm If you are abandoning your VA domicile, you need to look at VA's rules. WA's rules are only helpful in the sense that all states generally provide for similar considerations. But VA doesn't care about whether you're moving to WA, NY, CA, or Timbuktu (sort of). VA will apply their own statutes and interpretations.

Generally, you change domicile when you are physically present in a state and intend to remain there indefinitely. Both of those need to be true for you to have changed your domicile at that time. If you go to WA, you really like it, then head down to CA to stay with your parents for a week and decide while you're there that you're going to move to WA, and have all your stuff in VA packed up and sent to WA, you don't actually abandon your VA domicile until you physically step foot in WA again.

Determining what date that is is generally pretty easy. Proving your intent can be difficult. That's when you start to get into the "domicile factors." But these are all about *proving* your intent. They do not actually control the answer of when your domicile changed.
This is the most accurate response, IMO. New York State is famous for this level of examination during residency audits, which I’ve been through. Keep in mind: 1) It’s VA’s residency tax laws you need to consider rather than WA’s, and 2) You could (and arguably should) try to claim an earlier residency than April, but its unlikely to hold up IF VA audits you.

Documents like a driver’s license are considered cosmetic and actually carry very little weight when proving domicile. State tax authorities know those are quick & easy to get. If avoiding state taxes were easy, everyone would do it. The biggest factor is the date you gave up your VA lease/home.

The earliest you could claim to be a WA resident sounds like April, but that depends on your previous VA living situation. If it was a lease and you’re letting it expire later, then the fact you shipped your stuff to yourself in WA is strongly in your favor as long as you’re not going back and forth in the same year you emigrated

If you own in VA, then it gets complicated and they can consider the size of your VA home vs the WA place, as well as other factors like utility bills, time spent, where you derive income, etc.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by leeks »

FreelancerNYC wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:24 am The earliest you could claim to be a WA resident sounds like April, but that depends on your previous VA living situation. If it was a lease and you’re letting it expire later, then the fact you shipped your stuff to yourself in WA is strongly in your favor as long as you’re not going back and forth in the same year you emigrated

If you own in VA, then it gets complicated and they can consider the size of your VA home vs the WA place, as well as other factors like utility bills, time spent, where you derive income, etc.
OP had already left VA housing (had stuff in a storage unit) when traveling to WA and CA in February. Both physical presence and a declaration of intent to change domicile (by notifying employer and updating tax withholding) were in place on March 1. I see no rationale to use any later date.

OP could possibly choose the first date arriving in WA in mid-Feb if that aligns with personal intent. But that date is less straightforward to justify (especially with an intervening trip to CA) and would only have an airbnb rental as documentation. If it were me, I would avoid any potential of VA wanting to quibble over taxing two weeks of income by sticking with March 1st. WA has no income tax, so they have no reason to care.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by FreelancerNYC »

leeks wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 1:35 am
OP had already left VA housing (had stuff in a storage unit) when traveling to WA and CA in February. Both physical presence and a declaration of intent to change domicile (by notifying employer and updating tax withholding) were in place on March 1. I see no rationale to use any later date.
Ah, I missed that later comment from OP about vacating. In that case, I agree with March 1st.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by wolf359 »

Jim Baround wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:20 am
tomsense76 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:59 pm
Jim Baround wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:46 pm You don't mention when you ended ties with VA - did you end a lease or sell a house? I would say if you did those things, then as soon as you "moved" to WA (went into the Airbnb), and there was no overlap, then you can make a good case that you can consider yourself a resident of WA at that time. Keep in mind, there's no definitive answer.
I no longer had a lease when I arrived in WA. However I still had a storage unit in VA (got rid of that in April) and a driver's license from the state (replaced in August).

Yeah I think the lack of definitive answer is tricky since VA taxes ask for an exact date, which impacts the taxes owed. So having a definitive answer is important (even though I agree it is a bit murky).
By no definitive answer, I meant more there is no specific thing you do that checks off a box that no longer makes you a resident (ie getting a license in another state doesn't definitively make you not a resident of Virginia).

However, reading the Virginia definition of a resident on their tax site it says "A person who lives in Virginia, or maintains a place of abode here", if your lease is ended (thus no abode), and you literally are not physically present in Virginia (thus, you're not living there), when you meet those conditions is when I would think you are no longer a resident of Virginia.
If you're quoting something, it's important to provide the complete quote. The missing details might trip someone up.

According to the Virginia tax site: https://www.tax.virginia.gov/residency- ... 20purposes.
Resident -- A person who lives in Virginia, or maintains a place of abode here, for more than 183 days during the year, or who is a legal (domiciliary) resident of the Commonwealth, is considered a Virginia resident for income tax purposes. Residents file Form 760.

Part-Year Resident -- A person who moves into Virginia during the year with the intent of becoming a resident, or a person who moves out of Virginia during the year to become a resident of another state, is a part-year resident for income tax purposes. Part-year residents generally file Form 760PY.

Nonresident -- A person who is not a resident or part-year resident, but who receives taxable income from Virginia sources is a nonresident for income tax purposes. Nonresidents file Form 763.
According to Virginia Law https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/ ... section30/
A resident is:
B. Resident.

1. Generally. For purposes of determining the income tax liability of any individual, the term "resident" includes (1) any individual domiciled in this Commonwealth (domiciliary resident), and (2) any individual who is not domiciled in this Commonwealth but who maintains a place of abode (actual resident) in Virginia for more than 183 days (in the aggregate) during the taxable year.

2. Actual resident. An individual may be an actual resident as defined in subdivision 1 of this subsection even though he retains his legal domicile elsewhere. The term "actual resident" does not include members of the United States Congress or members of the armed forces who are legally domiciled in another state. (For additional information on military and congressional personnel, see subdivisions 4 and 5 below.)

3. Domiciliary resident. A "domiciliary resident" is one whose legal domicile is Virginia. Most domiciliary residents actually live in Virginia; however actual presence in the state is not required. Any person who has not moved from the state with the intention of permanently residing outside of Virginia is still a domiciliary resident even though he may be actually living some place else.

A domicile once established continues until the individual moves to a new location with the bona fide intention of making his fixed and permanent home there.

A person can have only one domicile. If he has two or more places of abode, his domicile is the one which he regards and uses as his permanent home.

The determination of bona fide intention to change one's domicile is a factual matter which must be resolved on an individual case basis. In making this determination consideration is given to a number of factors, including, but not limited to the following: sites of real and tangible property, location of savings and checking accounts, motor vehicle registration and licensing, motor vehicle operator's license, voter registration, membership in clubs and civic groups, place of business, profession or employment, charitable contributions, location of schools attended by children, length of time of residence, place of birth and marriage, residence of family, reason for abandoning or acquiring domicile, and, in the case of a minor or married person, domicile of parents, husband, or wife and/or children. No single factor is dispositive in determining domicile; rather the factors are examined collectively to determine if the intent to acquire or abandon Virginia domicile exists. A simple declaration of intent to abandon domicile, or physical presence elsewhere is insufficient to abrogate Virginia domicile.

Additionally, the fact that an individual may have sold or disposed of his former home is not conclusive. Further, the fact that a person who has changed his place of abode to a location outside of Virginia but within six months of doing so again resides in Virginia constitutes prima facie evidence that no intent to abandon Virginia domicile existed. Where a question arises regarding an individual's domicile, the department may request such person to complete a questionnaire providing factual information relevant to the determination of intent to abandon Virginia domicile. Thus a change in domicile requires two concurrent actions--residence in a new locale and the intention to remain there indefinitely. The burden of proof that an individual has abandoned or failed to establish domicile in Virginia rests with the individual. For military personnel, see 23VAC10-110-130.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by lstone19 »

I would just go with a date you think you can justify. Despite what some people think, unless thousands of dollars of taxes is involved, I doubt there will be any sort of residency audit. My wife and I moved from California on split dates - me in 1997 and her in 1998 (she worked her old job in California for another six months) and neither California nor Illinois (the new state) questioned anything about it.

Keep in mind that everything listed are factors in a determination but they are considered in context. For instance, while owning a home in the old state could be a factor in them concluding you were still a resident, there's a big difference between just letting it sit vacant and having it vacant but listed for sale.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by humblecoder »

I am not a lawyer. Reading some of the legalese regarding when you have established domicile in a new state makes it pretty clear that most states don't have a clear definition of what that exact cutoff date is. What the person posted about VA seems par for the course, at least in the states where I have lived. In the absence of any clear definition of what that date is, my non-lawyer thought has always been to use a date when I have both clearly given up my old domicile (ended my lease in old state) AND established my new domicile (started my lease in new state). So I personally have used the later of:

1. When my lease ended / property sold in the old state
2. When my lease started / property bought in the new state

In your case, April seems reasonable and defensible to my non-legal mind. At that point, you no longer have a lease for your place in VA and you have signed a lease in WA. This shows your intent to give up your domicile in VA and establish it in WA.

I know others have suggested March 1st, which also may be reasonable and defensible (again not a lawyer). However, since you did not sign a lease at that point, you have not shown intent to remain in WA permanently. Therefore, if it were me, I'd feel safer about using the April date when your lease was actually signed. That shows a measure of intent not to come back to VA.

Stated another way, getting an Air-BNB feels like you are still casually dating WA, where signing a lease means that you've put a ring on it!
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by crefwatch »

I realize that this thread is mostly about working people, but I was surprised to be told by my mother's lawyer that NY State makes it virtually impossible for residents moved to an out of state nursing home with serious dementia to change their state of residence. They claim that the person cannot form an intent to leave the state. Just for the record.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by humblecoder »

crefwatch wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:22 am I realize that this thread is mostly about working people, but I was surprised to be told by my mother's lawyer that NY State makes it virtually impossible for residents moved to an out of state nursing home with serious dementia to change their state of residence. They claim that the person cannot form an intent to leave the state. Just for the record.
That IS interesting. I am not a lawyer, but honestly that sounds a bit strange to me. If one needs to be in a mental state where they can form intent in order to change one's residency, then I could see some strange situations arising.

1. Baby who is born in New York State whose parent's move to another state. Obviously the baby cannot form intent to leave the state, so is the baby considered a New York State resident until they reach the age of majority when they can legal form intent?

2. In my case, I have a special needs child who will likely be living with us for the rest of our lives. If we were living in New York and then decided to retire to Florida together, would my wife and I be Florida residents since we could show intent but our daughter would continue to be New York resident because she has no capacity to show intent?

3. Using your dementia example, what if instead of moving to a nursing home, the person's child, who lives out of state, decided to have their mother move in with them permanently so he could care for her. The mother would still be a New York State resident even though it is clear that her permanent place of abode is no longer in New York State and they do not maintain a residence in New York?

I tried to do a google search on this and I could not find any references to one's state of mind with respect to New York State residency laws. It talks about criteria like size of your residence in your old and new locations, your employment, time spent in both locations, where you keep sentimental items, and where you have family ties. Reference: https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/current_forms/it/it201i.pdf

Just based upon my layperson reading of the criteria (I am not a lawyer), I do not see ANYTHING regarding one's mental state. So I would think that for the three scenarios I laid out, the person would NOT be considered domiciled in New York State in those cases.
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by bsteiner »

humblecoder wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:46 am ...

1. Baby who is born in New York State whose parent's move to another state. Obviously the baby cannot form intent to leave the state, so is the baby considered a New York State resident until they reach the age of majority when they can legal form intent?

2. In my case, I have a special needs child who will likely be living with us for the rest of our lives. If we were living in New York and then decided to retire to Florida together, would my wife and I be Florida residents since we could show intent but our daughter would continue to be New York resident because she has no capacity to show intent?

3. Using your dementia example, what if instead of moving to a nursing home, the person's child, who lives out of state, decided to have their mother move in with them permanently so he could care for her. The mother would still be a New York State resident even though it is clear that her permanent place of abode is no longer in New York State and they do not maintain a residence in New York?

... I would think that for the three scenarios I laid out, the person would NOT be considered domiciled in New York State in those cases.
1. The child's domicile generally follows that of the parents. See this 1929 law review article on domicile of minors: https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/view ... ntext=ndlr.

3. If the new state treats someone physically present in the state as a resident for income tax purposes, then the mother will be an income tax resident in the new state. However, the mother will likely still be domiciled in New York, and her estate will likely be subject to New York estate tax purposes.

I often include a provision in powers of attorney giving the agent the power to change the principal's domicile, though I can't be sure that a court would accept that.

I had a case a few years ago where someone in her 90s moved from her home in New Jersey to an assisted living facility in New York and died a year later when the New Jersey estate tax exempt amount was $675,000 but the New York estate tax exempt amount was $4,187,500, and her estate was between those amounts. We claimed she was domiciled in New York, but New Jersey claimed she was still domiciled in New Jersey. The issue was whether she moved or whether someone moved her. We were able to show that, even though she needed assistance with her financial affairs, she was able to decide where she wanted to live.
Big Dog
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by Big Dog »

Personally, I'd claim mid-February (actual date you landed instate).

And RickB: the military (and other uniformed services) has special rules/laws that pre-empt state laws regarding residency, so what you find in the Army is of no relevance to OP unless OP is in a uniformed service.
hachiko
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by hachiko »

humblecoder wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:19 am However, since you did not sign a lease at that point, you have not shown intent to remain in WA permanently.
It's a slight distinction, but one that can sometimes make a difference. The key word is "indefinitely" not "permanently."

Also, just to clarify and reiterate (in response to the whole thread, not you specifically), the date you change domicile is the date that you are physically present in the new state and intend to remain there indefinitely. Intend being the key word. It's a state of mind.

Everything else that everyone is talking about here (lease dates, storage units, etc.) are about proving your intent. But it all still comes down to intent. Preparing you for the audit - remember this - there is a definitive date that you changed domicile. Because it's about your intent, you better have a definitive date. Do not be wishy-washy on the date that you changed domicile. If you cannot state a definitive date on which you intended to remain in WA indefinitely, you're going to lose on audit to VA.

The problem is, generally, whichever party (taxpayer or taxing authority) that is trying to prove a change of domicile has the burden of establishing the intent. But again, that goes to proof on audit.
Big Dog
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by Big Dog »

Also, just to clarify and reiterate (in response to the whole thread, not you specifically), the date you change domicile is the date that you are physically present in the new state and intend to remain there indefinitely. Intend being the key word. It's a state of mind.
Exactly. To me, staying in an B&B is not different than staying in hotel for temporary lodging while looking in the new location. The fact that the employer finally got around to changing the withholding at the next payroll run (or one after that) is not all that important.
hachiko
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by hachiko »

humblecoder wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:46 am Just based upon my layperson reading of the criteria (I am not a lawyer), I do not see ANYTHING regarding one's mental state. So I would think that for the three scenarios I laid out, the person would NOT be considered domiciled in New York State in those cases.
The seminal case for intent is Matter of Newcomb (I don't have the exact citation off the top of my head, but it was from some time in the early 1900s).

Also, there's a lot of good information in the NY Nonresident Audit Guidelines.
humblecoder
Posts: 568
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by humblecoder »

bsteiner wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:29 am I had a case a few years ago where someone in her 90s moved from her home in New Jersey to an assisted living facility in New York and died a year later when the New Jersey estate tax exempt amount was $675,000 but the New York estate tax exempt amount was $4,187,500, and her estate was between those amounts. We claimed she was domiciled in New York, but New Jersey claimed she was still domiciled in New Jersey. The issue was whether she moved or whether someone moved her. We were able to show that, even though she needed assistance with her financial affairs, she was able to decide where she wanted to live.
hachiko wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:48 pm The seminal case for intent is Matter of Newcomb (I don't have the exact citation off the top of my head, but it was from some time in the early 1900s).

Also, there's a lot of good information in the NY Nonresident Audit Guidelines.
Thanks for the info. That's one of the great things about this community - there is always something new to learn!
bsteiner
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Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by bsteiner »

hachiko wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:48 pm ...
The seminal case for intent is Matter of Newcomb (I don't have the exact citation off the top of my head, but it was from some time in the early 1900s).

Also, there's a lot of good information in the NY Nonresident Audit Guidelines.
Estate of Newcomb, 192 N.Y. 238 (1908): https://cite.case.law/ny/192/238/.

New York nonresident audit guidelines: https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/2014/misc/no ... s_2014.pdf.
Topic Author
tomsense76
Posts: 347
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Re: When does my state residency change?

Post by tomsense76 »

hachiko wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 12:39 pm
humblecoder wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:19 am However, since you did not sign a lease at that point, you have not shown intent to remain in WA permanently.
It's a slight distinction, but one that can sometimes make a difference. The key word is "indefinitely" not "permanently."

Also, just to clarify and reiterate (in response to the whole thread, not you specifically), the date you change domicile is the date that you are physically present in the new state and intend to remain there indefinitely. Intend being the key word. It's a state of mind.

Everything else that everyone is talking about here (lease dates, storage units, etc.) are about proving your intent. But it all still comes down to intent. Preparing you for the audit - remember this - there is a definitive date that you changed domicile. Because it's about your intent, you better have a definitive date. Do not be wishy-washy on the date that you changed domicile. If you cannot state a definitive date on which you intended to remain in WA indefinitely, you're going to lose on audit to VA.

The problem is, generally, whichever party (taxpayer or taxing authority) that is trying to prove a change of domicile has the burden of establishing the intent. But again, that goes to proof on audit.
Yeah agree with that. Also think that's why claiming mid-February even though there was intent is a little wishy-washy in part because I did leave the state briefly (even though I did return after).

Even before moving I had to provide a reason to my employer and get it approved. When my employer updated the withholding, they actually issued a new offer letter with a cost-of-living adjustment and stating I would be reporting from WA (remote). This was also signed by myself, my boss, and HR and remains on file at work (I also have a copy). It was actually rather involved. This was approved for March 1st. In fact this letter also was used as part of my lease application to demonstrate I had a job in the area and ability to pay rent. So there was more evidence and work involved in getting the withholding updated than meets the eye. Though I acknowledge I didn't mention that before (so there was no way to know that)
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
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