When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

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JSparks
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When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by JSparks »

When is a lawyer needed for creating a will? Or better yet, what are the circumstances in which an online will creator will not suffice? The reason I ask is because I really don't want to spend a lot of money to create an updated will for me and my wife. It's been about 15 years since our will has been updated and a few things have changed since then. We've been looking at some of the free will options online and it seems that one or two of them might be ok. But of course we don't know what don't know and could use some BH advice.

Here are some tidbits about us.

We have no children and no siblings.
We are both in our early fifties.
We own our home and have no complex investments.
Our net worth is $5.1M
We are considering retiring within the next year or so.
We own a small business that will be sold when we retire which will net us about $1.2M.
We don't have any trusts.

Do you think an online will creator (like Free Will) would be acceptable?
stan1
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by stan1 »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:58 pm
Our net worth is $5.1M
Yes, you need an estate plan (not just a will).

You should spend 0.1% of your net worth to get your estate in order.
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anon_investor
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by anon_investor »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:58 pm When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?
Always. If you need a will, get it done right, or don't bother at all, since a defective will is like not having one at all.
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Sandtrap
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Sandtrap »

1 Seek legal counsel.
2 Repeat.

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Gill
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Gill »

An error in your will could cost you many times what you might have saved by not using a lawyer. There are no "do overs" with a will after you die. A simple ambiguity could lead to litigation with the fees being paid from your estate. You don't know what you don't know.
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lazynovice
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by lazynovice »

At your net worth I would not think twice about getting a lawyer. Especially with a business in the mix. The attorney will think of questions and contingencies you might not think about.
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Watty
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Watty »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:58 pm Our net worth is $5.1M
.....
We own a small business that will be sold when we retire which will net us about $1.2M.
That is not even close, you need a lawyer.

I used LegalZoom and was comfortable with the process but my situation is several orders of magnitude simpler than yours.
JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:58 pm We have no children and no siblings.
This also makes your situation a lot more complex since people without reliable relatives that can manage your affairs if there is a problem have a much more complex situation.
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by humblecoder »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:58 pm But of course we don't know what don't know and could use some BH advice.
The phrase I highlighted is why you need a lawyer. The lawyers KNOWS what you don't know, more so than any advice you'd get on here.

A good estate plan (which includes more than just a will) probably will cost you a few grand, but it is money well spent. There are times when it pays to be cheap, but this is not one of those times.
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inittowinit
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by inittowinit »

If you don't get a competent lawyer's help then your will could end up having problems that make it unenforceable. In that case you would be intestate and your estate would most likely be distributed based on the state of jurisdiction's probate code.
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FiveK
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by FiveK »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:58 pm Here are some tidbits about us. ....
Based on those tidbits, it is not at all clear that you need a lawyer for your situation. Of course, IANAL.... :)

If you own your home jointly, and have listed each other as primary beneficiaries on all your accounts, you are in good shape if one of you dies first.

If you have a complicated bequest for when you are both deceased, legal advice may be needed. But if it is simple (e.g., your preferred charity listed as secondary beneficiary on all accounts, etc.),
a) you won't care, and
b) the chances of any significant problem are low.
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JSparks
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by JSparks »

Thanks for all the suggestions. I guess the reason I don't see value in this (especially for a few thousand dollars, as humblecoder mentioned) is because we don't really care who gets our estate. I know that sounds crass, but we have no family and no one in our lives that is close to us. Our plan is simply to will the estate to charity; one of my favorites and two of my wife's favorites. But I guess us spending a few thousand dollars now at least saves the charities some money. Of course, if we both live to 95, there will be no estate anyhow. :happy

Worse is that I haven't spent several thousand dollars on anything for nearly a decade. It may be a small percent of our NW, but it's still a lot of money.

And regarding the business, it will be sold by this time next year unless something really goes off the rails between now and then, but I highly doubt that will happen. Perhaps we should wait to do the will until then.
ZMonet
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by ZMonet »

Maybe you could use one of the online/inexpensive will kits to put something together and have it reviewed by the attorney? If nothing else, having everything collected and in one place should keep the billable hours down. Also, I'd do it now and mention to the attorney your concerns about things changing. You could probably have something put together that is largely future-proof, unless things drastically change.
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by bsteiner »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:57 pm Thanks for all the suggestions. I guess the reason I don't see value in this (especially for a few thousand dollars, as humblecoder mentioned) is because we don't really care who gets our estate. I know that sounds crass, but we have no family and no one in our lives that is close to us. Our plan is simply to will the estate to charity; one of my favorites and two of my wife's favorites. But I guess us spending a few thousand dollars now at least saves the charities some money. Of course, if we both live to 95, there will be no estate anyhow. :happy

Worse is that I haven't spent several thousand dollars on anything for nearly a decade. It may be a small percent of our NW, but it's still a lot of money.

And regarding the business, it will be sold by this time next year unless something really goes off the rails between now and then, but I highly doubt that will happen. Perhaps we should wait to do the will until then.
Probably a couple of few thousands.

The key is the selection of the executors who will administer your estate (collect your assets, sell your home, pay your debts, expenses and taxes, and distribute what's left to the charities).

You should do it now in case something happens to you before you sell the business. Your executors would then handle the sale.

You might want to consider a charitable remainder trust for the business.

If you have people available who could run a foundation, you might want to consider leaving your estate to a foundation that you could create either now or in the surviving spouse's Will.
ZMonet wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:04 pm Maybe you could use one of the online/inexpensive will kits to put something together and have it reviewed by the attorney? If nothing else, having everything collected and in one place should keep the billable hours down. Also, I'd do it now and mention to the attorney your concerns about things changing. You could probably have something put together that is largely future-proof, unless things drastically change.
It would probably cost more to review and revise it than to draft it from scratch.
fourwheelcycle
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by fourwheelcycle »

If you are frugal enough to consider an online will you are also frugal enough that your $6.3M will grow to $25M or more by the time you die. I hope you put it all in just a few large index funds and don't let an AUM financial advisor chop into into a hundred little pieces.

If your goal is to leave your money to several specific charities, you need an experienced attorney to draft a will that will achieve your goals and avoid having your money chewed up by court battles among your contesting heirs or charities. You would be amazed to see how unnamed heirs can come out of the woodwork to contest an inadequately drafted will. Also, as others have pointed out, you need an attorney to help you make sure you have a plan for designated POAs for finances and health care in case you become unable to manage your own finances and health care due to injury, illness, or old age. You also need advance health care directives to make your personal health care desires known to your spouse and others.

I don't know which charities you are considering, but if any of them are small you may want to give their portions of your money to Vanguard Charitable, or a similar organization, so it can be held in a responsible fiduciary and distributed in annual amounts, in perpetuity, to charities that may not be financially competent, or wise enough, to manage a large windfall you might leave to them.


Edited for a typo.
Last edited by fourwheelcycle on Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kenkat
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Kenkat »

I would worry about a situation where you and your wife will no longer be able to care for yourselves and need someone to act as trustee of your affairs, looking out for your interests. A will does not necessarily need to be expensive - an expense in the low four digits would be money well spent given your net worth and situation.
Luckywon
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Luckywon »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:57 pm we have no family and no one in our lives that is close to us.
You need a lawyer to execute an estate plan including health care and general POA in the event one of you is incapacitated and the other is deceased or incapacitated. It's not unlikely that will occur at some point. Any thoughts now about how you envision this should be managed?
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:58 pm When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?
Nearly every time, but especially in your case because of the amount of money involved.
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by humblecoder »

JSparks wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:57 pm Thanks for all the suggestions. I guess the reason I don't see value in this (especially for a few thousand dollars, as humblecoder mentioned) is because we don't really care who gets our estate. I know that sounds crass, but we have no family and no one in our lives that is close to us. Our plan is simply to will the estate to charity; one of my favorites and two of my wife's favorites. But I guess us spending a few thousand dollars now at least saves the charities some money. Of course, if we both live to 95, there will be no estate anyhow. :happy

Worse is that I haven't spent several thousand dollars on anything for nearly a decade. It may be a small percent of our NW, but it's still a lot of money.

And regarding the business, it will be sold by this time next year unless something really goes off the rails between now and then, but I highly doubt that will happen. Perhaps we should wait to do the will until then.
Do you have a Power of Attorney in case you are incapacitated? What about a Health Care Directive? There is more to estate planning than just a will.

For two thousand give or take, you can get a full suite of documents for you and your wife. :beer
Steve723
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Steve723 »

My wife and I are also in our early 50s and hadn't updated our will for about 18 years. We finally got our act together a couple months ago and got a reference for an estate attorney from a trusted neighbor. Within 5 minutes of meeting him, I knew it was the right decision. He instantly started asking us questions that we hadn't really pondered or thought through. After a few weeks and follow-up meetings, we were done with the process and felt very good that things were in order for us. Very much worth the cost!
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by jpelder »

It's definitely worth getting an attorney. You should especially do that if your state's intestancy laws do not automatically leave your entire estate to the surviving spouse (this is the case where I am, North Carolina, where the estate gets split among your spouse, children, parents, and/or siblings via a series of contingencies). You may consider asking for a lifetime update plan. Some attorneys offer that (pay extra now, get the will updated in a few years for no additional cost).
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Lee_WSP »

While I can’t say that the actual end product will be any different as far as the wording and legal substance, software can’t give you advice and guidance.
Aged Maduro
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Aged Maduro »

There are two things i do not skimp on...a good accountant and an even better lawyer. At your net worth level you can't afford not to have a thorough estate plan.
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Crimsonandclover »

DW and i decided to update our will recently. After a brief phone discussion with a local attorney it was clear that now was the time to get it all done - in our case, health care directives, durable powers of attorney, and wills for both of us. This turned out to be a lot of the “we don’t know what we don’t know” and so glad we found out and got it all done.
The attorney was able to ask the important questions we had not considered and help us to decide appropriate details for the will - which ended up being rather straightforward.
The attorney was straight up with fees (priced per document) and it turned out to cost significantly less than anticipated. Getting this all completed and knowing the wills and documents were completed by a competent attorney and in compliance with state law is a big relief.
I highly suggest taking the time to call a few local attorney and discuss services and fees. The cost is something you won’t know until you talk with a professional in your area.
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Katietsu »

Kenkat wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:27 pm I would worry about a situation where you and your wife will no longer be able to care for yourselves and need someone to act as trustee of your affairs, looking out for your interests. A will does not necessarily need to be expensive - an expense in the low four digits would be money well spent given your net worth and situation.
How does a will help with this potential problem?
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Kenkat
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Re: When is a lawyer needed for creating a will?

Post by Kenkat »

Katietsu wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:29 pm
Kenkat wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:27 pm I would worry about a situation where you and your wife will no longer be able to care for yourselves and need someone to act as trustee of your affairs, looking out for your interests. A will does not necessarily need to be expensive - an expense in the low four digits would be money well spent given your net worth and situation.
How does a will help with this potential problem?
I guess it would have been more clear to say a will and associated estate planning tools that typically go with the will, including POAs, trusts, etc.
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