What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

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Firemenot
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What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Firemenot »

My family’s Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage (~4k/mo for < 50% LTV 30 yr mortgage on < 1800 sq. ft. house).

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+

EDIT: Morbidly Obese FIRE = 500K+ I’ll never get there unless I work until a late age or end up owning a VERY successful business. I’ll go with Thomas Stanley’s deca-millionaire status here, which adjusted for inflation from 1996 dollars into today is about $16 million. I don’t really mean to conflate net worth with spending in this thread but this FIRE is more vanity anyhow. I’d have to try to spend this such as buying expensive cars often, flying only first class, sending my kids to insanely expensive colleges, start expensive hobbies, etc.
Last edited by Firemenot on Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:33 am, edited 4 times in total.
is50xenough
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by is50xenough »

Those seem reasonable given minimal info provided but depends on so many things. Why are you asking? Would need more info. Mortgage? How many kids? Current annual spend?
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Firemenot
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Firemenot »

is50xenough wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:42 pm Those seem reasonable given minimal info provided but depends on so many things. Why are you asking? Would need more info. Mortgage? How many kids? Current annual spend?
So many disagreement on BH are based on spending expectations. So I’m just curious how it varies by circumstances and individuals.

And my wife and I are somewhat actually on the frugal side. Always have been. But we also view money as a tool and not an end.
Last edited by Firemenot on Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrBobcat
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by MrBobcat »

Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
What are your definitions for Lean Fire, Fire and Fat Fire just so we're all on the same page?
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Firemenot
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Firemenot »

MrBobcat wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:52 pm
Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
What are your definitions for Lean Fire, Fire and Fat Fire just so we're all on the same page?
Totally subjective. I can’t really define other than perhaps my own sense of degree to which I’m living an abundant life versus feeling deprived. To me, lean FIRE means on the deprived side. FIRE kind of in the middle. And Fat FIRE the ability to live abundantly, using money as a tool somewhat abundantly.
Last edited by Firemenot on Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pasadena
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by pasadena »

Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:46 pm So many disagreement on BH are based on spending expectations. So I’m just curious how it various by circumstances and individuals.
True, so it would be helpful to lay out your circumstances.
RXfiles
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by RXfiles »

It depends on where you live the most and how much your housing is. Your numbers are over twice mine so I suspect HCOL area or you spend way more than you think.
flyingaway
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by flyingaway »

My FIRE number could be $1,000,000 if I could work until I am 90 years old.

I say that because I don't know exactly at this time when I am going to retire.
59Gibson
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by 59Gibson »

MCOL no kids, myself 45, wife 40, no mortgage or plans

Less than 40k would req. serious adjustments
Lean 42-45k/yr
current spending 58k
Fat 75k+
Normchad
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Normchad »

52, married. All children are independent now.

For me, assuming a paid off house, my numbers would look like this.

LeanFIRE: 60K
FIRE: 100K. This matches my current annual spending.
FatFIRE: 150K. Another 50k/year for entertainment or travel, on top of what I already do.
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geerhardusvos
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by geerhardusvos »

Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
$65k current base expenses. Everything above that is gravy. Would never need/want anything more than $100,000/year in today’s dollars.
VTSAX and chill
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Firemenot
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Firemenot »

I’m not looking to put out too much personal info onto the internet. Mortgage payment on an amount that’s about half my house’s value = about $4,000/mo with taxes & insurance (which I have no interest in paying off early). No other meaningful debt. Don’t spend much on clothes or cars. Multiple kids. Don’t have expensive hobbies, although my kids are in one expensive activity each in terms of serious lessons. Currently two paid off middle-class Japanese cars. Restaurant meals 1-2x a week. Wife a below average spender, especially compared to her peers. A couple of nice vacations a year pre-Covid.

We do splurge on good food at home. For example, I order all of my red meat direct. All fully grassfed, pasture beef and bison. Much less fat and cholesterol. But we also make lots of frugal food too.

And no money in 529s. Don’t want to tie it up there. Would rather look for higher earning opportunities. So ability to help with future college would come out of budget for a time.
Last edited by Firemenot on Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:15 pm, edited 6 times in total.
RXfiles
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by RXfiles »

VLCOL no kids. 28 spouse 27. Our essential expenses are about 2500 a month. Includes a mortgage. No other debts

Lean 40k
FIRE 50k-60k
Fat 70k+

100k would be crazy. I think we could take 4 huge vacations a year and eat drink whatever we wanted without having any reservations at all. We'd seriously have to work to spend that much
jsapiandante
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by jsapiandante »

Lean FIRE: 60k including taxes, Aca healthcare, and mortgage
30k with mortgage paid off

FIRE: 80k with mortgage, taxes and aca healthcare
48k with mortgage paid off

Fat FIRE: 120k with mortgage, taxes and healthcare
90k with mortgage paid off

Our Lean FIRE budget is our plan during down years with 10-15% of it some discretionary expenses. So we can down a bit more if we had to. My planned withdrawal rate at this budget is 3%. Our FIRE budget is our current expenses right now with about 2k worth of discretionary expenses per month. The planned SWR at this stage is 4% and probably won’t think about pulling the trigger until we get here. This is already pretty comfortable living for us with 1 big vacation and 3 smaller ones. Our Fat FIRE budget includes a very modest budget for a luxurious (in our view) lifestyle. We’ve never reached this budget even if we tried in the past. Our planned withdrawal rate here is 5% if we ever get there. This would have to mean we worked longer than we had to which is something I hope doesn’t happen.
chipperd
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by chipperd »

Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
What is the question your are asking?
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
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Firemenot
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Firemenot »

chipperd wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:18 pm
Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
What is the question your are asking?
The question of the title. Basically polling people.
chipperd
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by chipperd »

Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:19 pm
chipperd wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:18 pm
Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
What is the question your are asking?
The question of the title. Basically polling people.
Ok. I'll play
65k
80k
95k
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
jharkin
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by jharkin »

What is that, yearly spend?

Assuming yearly... I am in tech and live outside Boston. Retiring before the kids are though college is simply impossible, so assuming they are out of the house and we downsized:

Lean 60k
normal 80-120k
fat 150k
I couldn't spend 200k a year if I tried...is that eating every meal out and traveling months at a time?

And this is all up, once we hit 65 SS and pensions will cover at least half of that.

So figure 2MM as a minimum case up to 5MM as a I'd probably leave most of it to charity when I die case.
Last edited by jharkin on Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Marseille07
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Marseille07 »

HCOL with a house paid off:
Lean: 20K
Normal: 40K
Fat: 100K
Sic Vis Pacem
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Sic Vis Pacem »

Lean: 75K
Fire: 100K
FatFire: 150K
MOFire: 200K
jeremyl
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by jeremyl »

MCOL area. I'm 44 & wife is 43 with a toddler. Expenses right now are about 35-40k.

Guesstimating:
40k
50k
75k
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corn18
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by corn18 »

Lean FIRE = Base budget (includes ALL expenses) with no money for travel or blow that dough (BTD)
FIRE = Base budget + $15k of annual travel / BTD
Fat Fire = Base + $25k annual travel / BTD
Obese Fire = Base + $50k annual travel / BTD
Morbidly Obese FIRE = $75k annual travel / BTD

We are retiring in 73 days @ obese FIRE.

Image
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Normchad
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Normchad »

corn18 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:45 pm Lean FIRE = Base budget (includes ALL expenses) with no money for travel or blow that dough (BTD)
FIRE = Base budget + $15k of annual travel / BTD
Fat Fire = Base + $25k annual travel / BTD
Obese Fire = Base + $50k annual travel / BTD
Morbidly Obese FIRE = $75k annual travel / BTD

We are retiring in 73 days @ obese FIRE.

Image
Congratulations on your Obese FIRE! And thanks for sharing concrete numbers.
stocknoob4111
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by stocknoob4111 »

Single, no kids, no house, plan to be a global nomad... roughly $1K/month for accomodation, $1K/month for everything else - so $24k/yr total.
However, if you live in places like Thailand you can get a luxury 1 bedroom apartment in a Bangkok highrise for $500-600/month and that will come with a fitness center, jacuzzi, pool etc. There are other amazing places - Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, the Baltic countries and even Greece and Portugal are super cheap... Geo arbitrage is what I intend to do :wink:

Lean < 25K
FIRE 25K-45K
Fat FIRE > 45K
Last edited by stocknoob4111 on Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrBobcat
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by MrBobcat »

Married Mid 50's all kids on own and house paid for, MCOL

Lean - $36-$40K
Fire - $60k This is approx. our current spend sans income tax which would be minimal at $60k and we can do everything we want
Fat Fire - $100k+

We're shooting for somewhere between Fire/Fat Fire and should be there in a little less than 8 years.
TheNightsToCome
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by TheNightsToCome »

Lean retirement would be $60K. I'd worry a lot about healthcare costs at this level.

Fat would be $200K. We've never spent close to that much, and I doubt we ever will, but that is the meaning of a fat retirement to me; i.e., we have much more than we'd ever spend and so we never think about or worry about what we are spending, even though we have no income. This level should (I hope) cover special healthcare needs if they arise in old age.

Regular retirement is somewhere between the two above.
mbasherp
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by mbasherp »

Lean FIRE - 36k
FIRE - 62k (current spending)
Fat FIRE - 100-120k?
Jabba the Hut FIRE - 250k?

We’ve never made more than ~125k combined, so the thought of permanently spending twice that definitely seems more than just obese.
goos_news
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by goos_news »

I think it really is subjective. And it also depends on what you consider minimum spending. I know could scale back further, although we are budgeting quite a bit for health care (25 to 30K, no subsidy).
HCOL, couple, two to three years out, could go now but are at the "RE" period. Currently spending 110ish.

Lean FIRE 9K
FIRE 180K
Fat FIRE 300K
MOFIRE 500K
Last edited by goos_news on Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
EddyB
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by EddyB »

flyingaway wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:56 pm My FIRE number could be $1,000,000 if I could work until I am 90 years old.

I say that because I don't know exactly at this time when I am going to retire.
Although I'm sure that battles rage over where the cutoff is for the "early" in FIRE, I think it's hard to credit 90 as early retirement.
EddyB
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by EddyB »

Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
Without knowing how much of that specifically supports the ongoing mortgage, a least, it's hard for me to contextualize it at all.
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Firemenot
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Firemenot »

EddyB wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:25 pm
Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
Without knowing how much of that specifically supports the ongoing mortgage, a least, it's hard for me to contextualize it at all.
In a subsequent reply. Just shy of 50K.
am
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by am »

You can list your yearly spend at lean, fire and fat fire, but there will be intense disagreements on what kind of nest egg you need. And no one knows because no one knows the future. Shoot for fat fire assuming 3.5-4% swr and adjust to fire or lean if things go bad is my approach.
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corn18
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by corn18 »

am wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:33 pm You can list your yearly spend at lean, fire and fat fire, but there will be intense disagreements on what kind of nest egg you need. And no one knows because no one knows the future. Shoot for fat fire assuming 3.5-4% swr and adjust to fire or lean if things go bad is my approach.
I struggle with this every day. I decided to use 95% in Firecalc as my measure of success lean FIRE. My travel budget is based on VPW of the remaining portfolio. And the travel money stops @ 80.
Don't do something, just stand there!
random_walker_77
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by random_walker_77 »

Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
To me, FIRE means no mortgage. With a paid off house, I think of base as:
1) health insurance and expenses. I budget this as averaging 30K w/ no subsidies
2) property (11K) and income taxes (~5-10K).
3) other basic living expenses of 40K for lean FIRE in a MCOL area

So my lean number is 90K with a paid off house. In a true lean FIRE situation, ACA subsidies might lower that. Geoarbitrage could lower that further.

FIRE to me is then an additional 15-20K or 105-110K.
Fat FIRE is 150+K, but if I developed a taste for luxury then the sky's the limit :)
aristotelian
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by aristotelian »

Lean 40-59k, FIRE 60-99k, Fat 100k+

Our actual spending was 70k precovid so that is the basis for our FIRE number. We spent only 60k this year so I would still consider us FI if we could support 60k.

We have a paid off mortgage which reduces our expense a lot.
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

Home paid off, dependents grown.
HCOL due to housing only.

$70k
$95k
$300k [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
Wannaretireearly
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

I'm bad at tracking my spending. Perhaps I'm too scared of the truth :D

Backtracking from income minus retirement savings. minus taxes, seems we spend $200k - $250k a year, give or take.

Removing mortgage and private school, would get expenses (today) down to $100k to $150k.

So here goes:

Lean: $80k
FIRE: $100k
Fat: $150k
This time next year, we'll be millionaires!
EddyB
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by EddyB »

Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:27 pm
EddyB wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:25 pm
Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
Without knowing how much of that specifically supports the ongoing mortgage, a least, it's hard for me to contextualize it at all.
In a subsequent reply. Just shy of 50K.
Sorry, I missed that.

I've never thought about the lean/standard/fat variation for myself in quite that way, because I had no interest in anything I'd consider lean and the question of "how fat?" is an ever-changing tradeoff of how I feel about work vs. additional, specific spending. That said, the decline in my interest in my current work accelerated markedly when I was comfortable I could support $140k/year, and I'm sufficiently unmoved by its joys that I can't see any reason to do anything like my current version of work once I reach a sustainable spend of $200k/year. Those numbers reflect a relatively expensive paid-off house in a medium-high cost of living area (with moderate property taxes) and having the option to ameliorate healthcare and education expenses by living in the EU, counterbalanced by an uncertain interest in the possibility of either or both (i) buying an indulgent sailboat or (ii) deciding to maintain both a US and EU home at the same time.
Wanderingwheelz
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

EddyB wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:25 pm
Firemenot wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:29 pm My Lean FIRE, FIRE, and fat FIRE numbers are as follows. Relevant info: 40s, multiple kids that will still be in the house for years, high-cost of living area I don’t want to leave, and sizable outstanding mortgage.

No way, no how: <80K
Lean FIRE: 80-120K
FIRE: 120K-200K
Fat FIRE: 200k+
Without knowing how much of that specifically supports the ongoing mortgage, a least, it's hard for me to contextualize it at all.
Exactly. If you have a mortgage/rent and kids still to support the FIRE numbers are meaningless. Too many big expenses are still ongoing.
am
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by am »

Health care is a huge expense before Medicare. Thinking 30-40k for a couple for high deductible policy with deductible + copays budgeted on exchange . Are you guys including that in your numbers?
supalong52
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by supalong52 »

flyingaway wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:56 pm My FIRE number could be $1,000,000 if I could work until I am 90 years old.

I say that because I don't know exactly at this time when I am going to retire.
If you worked til 90 that would be FIRL not FIRE
am
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by am »

corn18 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:37 pm
am wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:33 pm You can list your yearly spend at lean, fire and fat fire, but there will be intense disagreements on what kind of nest egg you need. And no one knows because no one knows the future. Shoot for fat fire assuming 3.5-4% swr and adjust to fire or lean if things go bad is my approach.
I struggle with this every day. I decided to use 95% in Firecalc as my measure of success lean FIRE. My travel budget is based on VPW of the remaining portfolio. And the travel money stops @ 80.
You will never feel good because you will never reach certainty, even if your read the thousands of threads here :D . There are greater risks like losing your health, relationships, and early death (although not a risk to your portfolio).
supalong52
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by supalong52 »

Lean 80k
Full 125k
Fat 200k

Just spitballing though. Who knows. Not really something I bother thinking about since we are living the way we want right now.
Tamalak
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Tamalak »

40k
60k
80k

Dang y'all are fat.
Last edited by Tamalak on Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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corn18
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by corn18 »

am wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:06 pm Health care is a huge expense before Medicare. Thinking 30-40k for a couple for high deductible policy with deductible + copays budgeted on exchange . Are you guys including that in your numbers?
My healthcare is $25 / month for both of us. I'm retired military, so I have Tricare for life. If I had to budget for ACA type healthcare from 55-65, I would be much worse off.
Don't do something, just stand there!
stocknoob4111
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Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:52 pm

Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by stocknoob4111 »

This thread left out Barista Fire :D No, it's not a separate budget to hang out at Starbucks often...

https://fourpillarfreedom.com/barista-fire/
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LiveSimple
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by LiveSimple »

100 K
125 K
150 K
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JoMoney
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by JoMoney »

I don't have a current desire to RE, but if I had $10 mil I might.
$10mm / 50 years = $200k a year every year for longer than I expect to live without any growth/interest/investment expectations. That's enough for me to make it a job spending my money :wink: so that would be a good starting point of "Fat FIRE"

I could live the lifestyle I do today on $30k a year (with the expectation of government subsidized health insurance, or going without). If I didn't have a daily "job" it would be harder to justify owning a car, and there are other expenses I could cut back on which could make $30k more than enough (but would involve lifestyle changes at that point.)
Using a 25x/4% rule on $750k portfolio I think $30k a year could be generated, assuming a lot of risk of failure. That would be my lean (but not lean-est) FIRE. I'm a good bit beyond that, SS is promising me close to that at FRA even if I quit now, and I don't have temptations to stop working.

Super-lean-FIRE wouldn't need anything, but I'd rather not spend my time just trying to survive, or depending on handouts from others.
Last edited by JoMoney on Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pasadena
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by pasadena »

EddyB wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 3:51 pm I've never thought about the lean/standard/fat variation for myself in quite that way, because I had no interest in anything I'd consider lean and the question of "how fat?" is an ever-changing tradeoff of how I feel about work vs. additional, specific spending.
+1. So my "numbers", in terms of annual expenses (after taxes), assuming a paid-off home and no healthcare costs (foreign country), single, no kids, and at the current EUR/USD exchange rate, which is super high, would be something like:

* LeanFIRE: not interested but I'd say around $30k - $35k
* FIRE: $40k - $45k
* FatFIRE: > $45k - the number above already includes a nice buffer and is rounded up.

Also, the "paid-off home" assumption means that my nest egg upon retirement needs to include enough cash to buy a home outright. This would be HCOL in the country, probably MCOL per US standards.

That's a lot of assumptions :|
Wannaretireearly
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Re: What are your Lean FIRE, FIRE, and Fat FIRE numbers?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

am wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:06 pm Health care is a huge expense before Medicare. Thinking 30-40k for a couple for high deductible policy with deductible + copays budgeted on exchange . Are you guys including that in your numbers?
Trying not to think about it. Alcohol helps temporarily.
Bidencare or healthcare tourism is the light
This time next year, we'll be millionaires!
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