Are these good enough reasons to change jobs?

Invictus002 · Post by **Invictus002** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:39 pm

Age: 38 (nearing 40!)
State: AZ
Work in tech for government. Another 13 years to retire with 75% of pay as pension - payout starts immediately ~@age 52, when staying course.
Net worth $1.4M (excluding RE equity).
Money wise on track for now.

Current job Pros:
- Stability (no growth too).
- Great benefits & work-life balance.
- Some sense of job security.
- Pay is decent enough.
- High performer (solve lots of problems).
- work on latest cloud tech
- Get lots of kudos lip service only

Cons:
- Lots of favoritism/politics - hindering growth - most of our org is ignored, except few favorites.
- Slow progression in career - very slow. Might get a promotion after 15 years!
- Does not reward talent/work - but wants work done.
- High ego, pettiness and jealousy from bosses.
- Some micromanagement.

I can stand these, if I don't take it to heart.

Priorities:
1. Have enough time and money to enjoy life/kids/hobbies
2. Retire somewhat early/stay healthy/keep stress low
3. Have reasonable career growth - But I also wonder how much is career growth important? In the end, does it matter if I was a director or an engineer?

Do these warrant changing jobs or does every job/org have these issues in varying intensities?
Should I just be patient and finish my marathon and retire in 13 years?
Seeking inputs from experienced people such as you.

jaqenhghar · Post by **jaqenhghar** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:28 pm

You work in one of the hottest areas -- cloud tech. Consider sending your resume out to tech companies and see what kind of offers you get. Once you get those data points, you can decide how one of those offers compares against your pro/con list for your current employer.

Either way, congrats on being a hot commodity in this market!

boglerman · Post by **boglerman** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:34 pm

Your entire CONS list, excluding possibly your career progression remarks, is likely to exist in the private sector as well. You have 13 years until retirement, and will be guaranteed 75% of pay for life.If you move to the private sector, retirement is when exactly??? I think you would be crazy to make the switch. With that said, most everyone on this board is smarter than me..

Nathan Drake · Post by **Nathan Drake** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:35 pm

When does your pension pay out? Does it start immediately in 13 years or is that when it maxes out @ 75%, but you still have to wait until early 60s?

What exactly are your bosses petty/jealous about?

Eurookat · Post by **Eurookat** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:39 pm

I work in tech but for private companies throughout my career. I know a few folks who worked in tech for local state govts. These folks leave for the private sector and it's a huge contrast. At one job we moved fast, this particular person was not fond of having deadlines within a two week sprint. He was used to taking his good old time.

I'm a manager now having been an IC for over 15yrs. salary wise I'm maxed out so the next logical step is to become a manager. The difference is I want to be a manager so please do not go into mgmt if it's not ideal for you. If you rather work on project based tasks and not want to worry about other people's career objectives then continue to be an engineer. I must say though, I miss working on daily tasks and not attending meetings all day.

Also remember there's ageism in the tech sector. If you're 13yrs away, you may want to considsr staying where you are. I'm in my 40s and my last few jobs I was always one of the oldest team members. When we interviewed and sources candidates a lot of the time we tossed resumes from folks who were in their 50s.

qwertyjazz · Post by **qwertyjazz** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:39 pm

It matters what lifestyle you want and whether you want to create your own retirement. It seems like it is now or never (next few years or not). Then the pension becomes too close to walk away from and the number of years you can invest decreases. You are on track for an easy retirement in 13 years. How much do you want to see if you can make it a larger amount with more control (but also ability to fail)?
It comes down to what you want from the next decade

Afty · Post by **Afty** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:45 pm

13 years is a long time to work at a job you hate. Do you hate it?

Those cons could be true in the private sector, or they might not. Different companies and different teams can be completely different. I’ve had some excellent managers and some not-so-excellent managers while remaining on the same team at the same tech company.

angelescrest · Post by **angelescrest** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:50 pm

Nicely written post.

Not in the same field, but maybe a similar place in life. I could potentially retire in 13 years, and my current role is fairly dull, really bad VP, and I’m maxed out in status (doesn’t go very high). It’s super easy, with minimal hours and stress. I have a potential offer that’s with a prestigious company, commands a lot more respect, but means VHCOL, closer to family, better community, but probably delays my retirement trajectory by 10 years at least since the pay increase won’t be enough to offset the serious jump in COL. Lots more stress, too.

If your list of priorities were in reverse, I’d suggest moving on. But if having time, money, and retiring early trump the promotions and status, then staying seems to make sense, especially if you want the pension. Given that you already have 1.4M, if your expenses in retirement can be met with a 3M portfolio, then you might be fine moving on and finding a higher paying job, with good work life balance (would need to vet this carefully).

I think the only way to truly know is if you start applying for other options. If you feel really excited and motivated by another opportunity, then that might be worth considering. 13 years is a pretty long time.

Invictus002 · Post by **Invictus002** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:19 pm

One additional info: have 2 kids in early elementary, next 10 or so years, I expect to be spending time with them daily on their education. In about 13 years, they might be getting ready for college.

One thing, I feel is life is sort of predictable now, with less unknowns, skilled in all areas of my job duties and beyond, which is a non quantifiable benefit of current job. I might get the same feeling if I switch to another stable organization and after feeling comfortable in the job.

MathIsMyWayr · Post by **MathIsMyWayr** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:20 pm

Invictus002 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:39 pm Age: 38 (nearing 40!)
State: AZ
Work in tech for government. Another 13 years to retire with 75% of pay as pension - payout starts immediately ~@age 52, when staying course.
Net worth $1.4M (excluding RE equity).
Money wise on track for now.

If staying,
Pro:

In 13 years, it looks like you will be all set for the rest of your life.

Con:

Your working life will be over or gone forever if you care.

Normchad · Post by **Normchad** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:24 pm

Invictus002 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:19 pm One additional info: have 2 kids in early elementary, next 10 or so years, I expect to be spending time with them daily on their education. In about 13 years, they might be getting ready for college.

One thing, I feel is life is sort of predictable now, with less unknowns, skilled in all areas of my job duties and beyond, which is a non quantifiable benefit of current job. I might get the same feeling if I switch to another stable organization and after feeling comfortable in the job.

I can't tell you what to do. But I would recommend you try to put a dollar value on that pension, and any retiree health benefits you might get. (i.e. how much would it cost to buy an annuity that would pay out the same as your pension)

Knowing that number should help you decide which offers are :"good enough" to jump for......

Nathan Drake · Post by **Nathan Drake** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:26 pm

You already have 1.4 million. You haven't revealed your annual income, but it's obviously quite high to accumulate 1.4 million excluding real estate at 38. Let's assume 200K. Your pension will pay out 150K starting in 13 years. I assume it will have an annual COLA. The pension is worth approximately $4 Million in today's dollars.

Will moving over to the private sector allow you to accumulate 4 million more dollars in 13 years above and beyond your current job? The answer is very likely to be NO.

This is why the concept of pensions blows my mind. People complain about their government jobs, yet have pensions that dwarf what they could otherwise save, and tend to payout extremely young. Your salary alone is very competitive with the private sector and you have it FAR better than someone in actual private practice UNLESS you get lucky with one of these tech stocks and RSUs (unlikely, on average). I work in the private sector in tech, make less than you, work far more hours, and have no pension. I would gladly trade places.

So nah, be thankful you have a pretty cushy job with an insane pension and stay put another 13 years. You will have the equivalent net worth probably nearing 8 figures when you include the pension at that point in time.

rob · Post by **rob** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:28 pm

A good enough reason to change jobs is not liking the paint color on the office wall.... The fact your asking means the answer is move on..... So get resume dusted off, start targeting some options etc (you know how the rest goes).

j9j · Post by **j9j** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:29 pm

75% pension at 52...I would advise you grind it out. The stability and steady hours are important with young children. A lot of the cons are present in most private sector jobs.

HomerJ · Post by **HomerJ** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:32 pm

I think you should look for a new job, and then I'll be happy to apply for the open position that you leave behind.

Chy · Post by **Chy** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:33 pm

You would be insane to leave that pension. If you enjoy the day to day well enough you should stay. Only reason to leave would be if you hated it and were willing to do anything to leave. Other jobs will have similar problems. You have an insanely good financial setup, better than 99% of the country. You should stop worrying about finances and just go cruise control and enjoy life.

Invictus002 · Post by **Invictus002** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:17 pm

Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:35 pm When does your pension pay out? Does it start immediately in 13 years or is that when it maxes out @ 75%, but you still have to wait until early 60s?

What exactly are your bosses petty/jealous about?

After 13 years, the pension starts immediately, approximately at age 52, if all things so as it is now.

Pettiness/jealousy: (this is real - no joke)
Bosses get really worked up when a customer/client congratulates or sends kudos. They downplay it as much as they can. They even go to the extent, to say, customers don't know what they are talking about.

When someone sends kudos, we can guess, our bosses will find something to criticize us, seems it's to keep us grounded, as told by them candidly

The pettiness comes out in many ways, they cannot see other people grow, they are sort of cautious as we clearly have way more understanding of the problems, solutions and technology, than them. The insecurity is because, the bosses don't have any technology background, they come from sales and marketing or something else.

Well, they bank on us on providing solutions, else, they will have to find vendors to do the job.

This is silly, but can tolerate if we just don't take this to heart.

kiwi123 · Post by **kiwi123** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:17 pm

A friend works in a similar role for CA state/govt and on the surface is paid significantly below market. He was considering private company offers that paid significantly more... until he factored in his pension. Once he did that, he decided to keep the govt work and put up with the cons that every job has (vs. the risk of starting a new job). Retirement at 52 with 75% pay sounds nice!

jerrysmith · Post by **jerrysmith** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:53 pm

Unless you are incredibly miserable I'd stick it out to retirement then do something else or do nothing at all.
I landed at a University at age 42 and will never leave the previous 20 years in private sector was enough for me.

placeholder · Post by **placeholder** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:24 pm

I retired an engineer (aerospace megacorp) and was happy to do so because I had no interest in management but liked solving problems and crafting programs.

humblecoder · Post by **humblecoder** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:59 pm

Invictus002 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:39 pm Current job Pros:
- Stability (no growth too).
- Great benefits & work-life balance.
- Some sense of job security.
- Pay is decent enough.
- High performer (solve lots of problems).
- work on latest cloud tech
- Get lots of kudos lip service only

Cons:
- Lots of favoritism/politics - hindering growth - most of our org is ignored, except few favorites.
- Slow progression in career - very slow. Might get a promotion after 15 years!
- Does not reward talent/work - but wants work done.
- High ego, pettiness and jealousy from bosses.
- Some micromanagement.

Priorities:
1. Have enough time and money to enjoy life/kids/hobbies
2. Retire somewhat early/stay healthy/keep stress low
3. Have reasonable career growth - But I also wonder how much is career growth important? In the end, does it matter if I was a director or an engineer?

I would stay put.

There is an old saying "the grass is always greener on the other side". That applies to jobs. You are wondering if you could do better than your current position, which is a natural feeling. However, when you look at the pros, cons, and your priorities, it seems like your current job lines up very well with your priorities.

Because you have great work/life balance, you satisfy priority #1.

Because you have an amazing pension, good pay/benefits, and the aforementioned work/life balance, you satisfy priority #2.

Career growth is hard to gauge. if you mean promotion, then it sounds like you are a bit stuck. On the other hand, if you define career growth as learning and advancing your skills, that is a different matter. Sounds like you are getting to play with the latest cloud tech, so if learning is how you define career growth, then your current job has that too!

The cons sounds like typical petty sh*t that can found at any job. Every job has its own unique share of politics and BS, so unless you get really lucky, going to a new job isn't going to solve that for you. At least if you stay at your current position, the BS you have is something you say that you can put up with. Said another way, it's the devil you know, right?

Like I said, I see no reason to leave your current job. Good luck to you whatever you decide!

Tamarind · Post by **Tamarind** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:04 pm

Tech worker from the private sector. Is any of the stuff on your cons list worth giving up your pension? You'll NEVER find an offer like that these days in the private sector.

The rest varies from company to company.

BolderBoy · Post by **BolderBoy** » Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:04 pm

What an impossible situation:

1) a soul crushing job
2) a pension sent from heaven
3) only 13 more years to go

Glug. Sounds like a Faustian dilemma.

market timer · Post by **market timer** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:01 am

Doesn't seem to me like you have any financial problems at the moment. The main issue seems to be a lack of growth potential. I wonder if you can find ways to grow outside of your job--hobbies, helping your kids with school, a side hustle, additional schooling.

Sure, apply for other jobs and see if you can find something that is better than what you have now, factoring in the value of the pension, the progressive tax structure, and cost of living differentials. In the meantime, I'd suggest doing your time for the next 13 years on your own terms. Only work on projects that interest you. Don't take the politics to heart.

triggerfish10 · Post by **triggerfish10** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:23 am

Great benefits & work-life balance

It seems like having the time to spend with family is important to you, especially as your kids get older. I would be concerned that if you moved to a different job with more growth potential that the amount of time and effort you would have to put in might greatly exceed what you are already doing. It could be for much more annual compensation, to be sure, but is that trade off worth it? Have you considered staying with your current job until the pension starts and then looking for another one? Or doing consulting work?

When it comes to investing one commonly espoused piece of advice is that when you've won the game stop playing. It seems that with your current position, in a way, you've won the game. Thirteen years till a sweet sweet pension? For many that's an offer that they can't refuse

humbledinvestor · Post by **humbledinvestor** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:42 am

While the kudos don’t make the bosses happy, at least you get the satisfaction that you did a great job. Working on cloud tech is great too.

Stick it out with that type of pension. Family time is important and in some private sectors it can get compromised.

Humility101 · Post by **Humility101** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:56 am

Very difficult situation. Very familiar with being in positions in which leadership feel threatened because of a lack of technology expertise. However, as folks have mentioned, that pension is a pretty big, effortless, flow of money not to ignore.

However, depending on your spending habits,It seems like you’re in a pretty flexible position. If you are truly unhappy every day you wake up and go to work for these people, then I would explore other options. But not just any options...based on your job description you likely have some skills that make you extremely competitive in the private market. If your looking at private companies ask yourself if their mission would make you proud to work their every day. If there is potential, then run the numbers with your salary right now vs. current job and consider future cash flows from the pension. Any additional dollar made today is worth more than a dollar 13 years from now.

The money equation is important, but put your happiness first.

Good luck,

Humility101

makingmistakes · Post by **makingmistakes** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:35 am

BolderBoy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:04 pm What an impossible situation:

1) a soul crushing job
2) a pension sent from heaven
3) only 13 more years to go

Glug. Sounds like a Faustian dilemma.

“soul crushing” sounds way more dramatic than what the OP described. He gets to work on cool projects with the latest technology. He’s simply dealing with some office politics and no new title every few years. Personally, no brainer for me ... collect that pension and then be free to do whatever he wants.

calvin111 · Post by **calvin111** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:01 pm

This is very good job and good benefit. There is a value of quality of life. Do not compare total comp of other tech companies and promotion. In many cases if it up or out in tech companies and sometimes that extra promotion or little better comp is not worth it. We are working to live and not living to work. Do not think working at a job is only goal in life. I will stay put and learn new things while at your current job and explore doing side projects or developing something.

Tingting1013 · Post by **Tingting1013** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:17 pm

The value of the pension is quantifiable.

Let’s assume your exiting salary at age 52 is $100k. Then your pension is $75k. Let’s say you live another 30 years to age 82.

At a 2% inflation rate, that pension stream is worth $1.68M in 2033 dollars (when you turn 52).

Divide $1.68M by 13 years, and that’s $129k in annual incremental income your private sector tech job would have to pay above your current salary. $115k this year if you assume the same 2% inflation rate.

You can quibble that the pension path is more guaranteed than the private tech path, but the math I just did for the tech path also assumes no compensation (including RSUs) growth over the 13 years, which I’d say is a pretty conservative assumption.

MathIsMyWayr · Post by **MathIsMyWayr** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:24 pm

market timer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:01 am Doesn't seem to me like you have any financial problems at the moment. The main issue seems to be a lack of growth potential. I wonder if you can find ways to grow outside of your job--hobbies, helping your kids with school, a side hustle, additional schooling.

Typical activities after giving up a career.

usagi · Post by **usagi** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:59 pm

The answer is: Stay in your Government job.

Here is the reality, in the private sector age discrimination is a thing, especially in IT, and in IT it is not a trivial thing but a big thing, a real big thing. In government you are insulated from that. In IT we like to pretend it is what you know and skills, and it is, up until you run into age bias. I own a boutique IT consulting firm and I see it all the time, who the clients let go, who they train, who gets the good projects etc.

Your employment and ability to find a comparable situation might disappear overnight as you age in the private sector.

You state you want low stress, the Sword of Damocles lifestyle most private sector IT workers continually face is anything but low stress. And being suddenly unemployed is very stressful.

Gattamelata · Post by **Gattamelata** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:08 pm

That pension sounds spectacular. I have some questions about it, because to my mind it's the single most significant detail you shared.

Is 75% of your income enough to cover your expenses? If it is, then what I'm reading is that in 13 years, assuming you're still employed there, your retirement is 100% secured and whatever else you have saved is gravy. That kind of benefit is massive; if it were available to all workers, it would eliminate the need for this web site, for instance.

How well funded is the pension? I think it's worth considering this, because part of how I would resolve this decision would come down to how certain I was that I had a guaranteed safe retirement in 13 years. If the pension is well funded, then it would be very hard for me to walk away from the situation you're in. If not... I'd still have a hard time, but I'd consider my retirement less guaranteed and be more careful to build up my own reserves in case pension benefits get cut.

How confident are you that you'll be able to maintain employment over those 13 years? How secure is the group you work in, how likely is it that you could find another job at the institution, and how well regarded are you by people outside your current role who can influence hiring decisions?

Are you absolutely sure about the details of the payout? Most pensions I'm familiar with require that you wait until a pre-defined "retirement age" until they pay out, or they substantially reduce benefits if you retire early and start collecting benefits before the retirement age. I'm not saying I think you're wrong, I'm just saying I would triple-check, because I would want to be absolutely sure that my subsequent decisions are based on a rock-solid understanding of that pension.

As presented, I think you are basically asking us as a group if we would walk away from guaranteed retirement security in exchange for sticking it out at a job that is mediocre at worst and pretty damn good at best. This is a group that debates the fine points of asset allocation, withdrawal schemes, and the best ways to secure average market return in order to build our own guarantees, all the while reminding ourselves that there are no guarantees in life. And here you have something that seems to eliminate all of the need for all of that finesse by just giving you outright the security the rest of us have to engineer on our own. That's remarkable. I don't think you'll find many people here who will advise you to leave that behind.

There are ways to make a mediocre job better. Looking for opportunities to change things up within the job, mentioning a desire to learn more about other parts of the org (while making it clear that you're quite happy where you are), looking for opportunities to collaborate with other teams that you don't normally work with; these all can be ways to introduce change and growth. You can find a lot of energy from mentoring younger colleagues. And, as previously suggested, you have the opportunity to find things outside of work that renew you. Family, friends, exercise, art, reading, playing music, whatever it is. And if you don't have those things, you can develop them. Doing these things will set you up well for the life you have at 52.

I don't think it's a mistake to look at other jobs you qualify for, but if I were in your shoes, the barrier those jobs would have to meet is: "Can this job guarantee me a comfortable retirement as a rich person at age 52?" Because that's what the current job appears to do. Most private sector jobs won't be able to surpass that bar.

canadianbacon · Post by **canadianbacon** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:19 pm

Invictus002 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:39 pm
Cons:
- Lots of favoritism/politics - hindering growth - most of our org is ignored, except few favorites.
- Slow progression in career - very slow. Might get a promotion after 15 years!
- Does not reward talent/work - but wants work done.
- High ego, pettiness and jealousy from bosses.
- Some micromanagement.

Look is like you have it made but you feel underappreciated. So stop feeling that way. These people are losers. Once you’ve retired you will never talk to them. Their opinion is worthless unless it could actually cost you your job or pension. So do your fun cloud work and when they don’t understand it, just smile to yourself. You’ve got this.

I feel like you are considering some fantasy where you turn in your resignation and they realize their big mistake. Only they probably won’t. And even if they did, and that moment of satisfaction is over, was it really worth it?

I would stop just short of war crimes to get a 75% pension for life at age 52. You just have to put up with pointy headed bosses. Not so bad I think.

dvvader · Post by **dvvader** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:24 pm

I worked at a similar job with very similar cons to what you listed. I left and it proved to be a great decision for me. Granted I was 28 at the time, and my pension wasn’t near as good as the one you describe, but here’s an anecdote none the less. Good luck moving forward. You are in a great financial position which will help take some pressure off the decision making process.

Gattamelata · Post by **Gattamelata** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:38 pm

canadianbacon wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:19 pm Look is like you have it made but you feel underappreciated. So stop feeling that way. These people are losers. Once you’ve retired you will never talk to them. Their opinion is worthless unless it could actually cost you your job or pension. So do your fun cloud work and when they don’t understand it, just smile to yourself. You’ve got this.

I think this is great advice. We decide how we feel about things. You know your superiors are not qualified to judge your work, so disregard their pettiness. I know from experience that it can be difficult to be a tech professional reporting to amateurs. It always helped me to think of my non-technical superiors as customers who needed my consulting and technical skills, and who were perfectly entitled to disregard it. Focus on your professionalism and do your work well.

It can also help to build some solidarity among your team. When a customer compliments your work and your superiors undercut the compliment, say privately to your team, "Hey, we did well. Great job, everybody. I'm going to treat myself tonight, and I think each of you should, too." No need to mention the bosses or the pettiness, no need to put yourself in opposition to anybody else, just share your opinion, congratulate them for their work, and move on. This can help take the sting out of the pettiness and if your colleagues participate may build a healthy counter-culture that insulates you and your colleagues from the nonsense.

Invictus002 · Post by **Invictus002** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:36 am

Great points.

Current pay is $115k, with a 1% average raise projected, unless covid cracks government revenues too much. I hope I can make it for next 13 years to finish it off. One threat is outsourcing of our jobs, but outsourcing failed in the last 3 attempts.

I work on AWS on infrastructure, networking and data services.

AWS market is crowded by lots of cheap labor and is getting cheaper by the day.

Pension:
Yes, confirmed that the pension is 75% of average of last 5 years and its starts immediately at any age, only when completing 30 years of service (13 yrs away).

I started young in here, which comes handy in this scenario.

Raymond · Post by **Raymond** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:51 am

I also vote for "stay."

Every time you have to deal with the petty egotistical supervisors, just mentally overlay the image of Dilbert's pointy-haired boss on their faces, with "blah-blah, blah-blah" coming out of their pie holes.

How far are they from retirement themselves? Maybe you won't have to see them around for much longer.

calvin111 · Post by **calvin111** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:54 am

If you are going to get 80K in pension then that is amazing benefit. To achieve this much of withdrawal at safe withdrawal rate of 4%, you will need to have 80K x 25 = 2 million dollars. So you have to think if your private sector job will give you 2 million dollars of wealth building in next 13 years ?

I would focus on building more real estate, other passive income streams, other hobbies, make youtube videos, do side projects etc...

You are in very good position. I would not leave this job.

Nathan Drake · Post by **Nathan Drake** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:05 am

Just out of curiosity how did you accumulate 1.4M on 115k and less earlier in your career? Any inheritance or did your SO work previously? That’s an impressive amount to accumulate

pennywise88 · Post by **pennywise88** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:21 am

Life’s too short to not be happy. Decide if staying helps you be more happy or not. Sometimes you need to choose happiness/fulfillment over money as they’re not always found in the same place.

PowderDay9 · Post by **PowderDay9** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:15 am

Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:26 pm This is why the concept of pensions blows my mind. People complain about their government jobs, yet have pensions that dwarf what they could otherwise save, and tend to payout extremely young. Your salary alone is very competitive with the private sector and you have it FAR better than someone in actual private practice UNLESS you get lucky with one of these tech stocks and RSUs (unlikely, on average). I work in the private sector in tech, make less than you, work far more hours, and have no pension. I would gladly trade places.

So nah, be thankful you have a pretty cushy job with an insane pension and stay put another 13 years. You will have the equivalent net worth probably nearing 8 figures when you include the pension at that point in time.

This x 1000!

It blows my mind that pensions still exist that pay out at young ages like 52. These types of pensions will probably pay out more years than you actually worked.

I would definitely not leave this job with only 13 years left after you already worked there for 17 years. Take advantage of this incredible pension.

neb2020 · Post by **neb2020** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:20 am

Let's do the math.

Govt
Let's say pension is $80k/yr and 3.5% SWR is equivalent to lump sum of $2.3mil in 13 years time. That's pretty good actually.

Private-Sector
To get that equivalent amount of money over 13 yrs and 7% returns you need to save an extra $115k/yr.

Top-level tech like Google and Facebook at L5/E5 pays $400k+/yr. Equivalent positions at 2nd-tier tech companies like Microsoft and Amazon pays $300k/yr. OP mentioned current salary is $120k(?), so that's an extra $180-280k/yr. Assuming 35% marginal rate for simplicity that's $117-182k/yr extra. But since COL of living is higher, you won't be able to save all the difference. I suspect this will work out if you get a top-tier FAANG offer, but not otherwise.

LiveSimple · Post by **LiveSimple** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 3:57 am

Have done these calculations for friends, the end is stay in federal for the pension, in the long term you cannot feat that, now. Add the health insurance from federal when you retire as well.

We all get mid life crisis and want to change, but the math or culture or skills may not work.

bltn · Post by **bltn** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:45 am

Your concerns about your bosses are commonplace problems with most jobs.

You pro s about your job, liking the work, job security, and plenty of free time for your family, are not that common. And health insurance when retired.

Your early pension is unusually good.

You could investigate other job opportunities. But my son in law, who has the position of team leader of a group of senior software engineers for a FAANG company, tells me that job longevity, referred to as ageism here, is not expected in his line of work. So changing jobs would only be beneficial if you would make a lot more money yearly for the next dozen years. And living in a HCOL area must be factored in. My son in law and daughter are paying 6000 a month to rent an 1100 sf apartment for them and the new baby!

My conclusion is that while you might look at other job opportunities, realize that your current job is going to be hard to beat.
And congratulations on your savings so far. Keep up the good work.

BobTexas · Post by **BobTexas** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:06 am

Invictus002 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:36 am Great points.

Current pay is $115k, with a 1% average raise projected, unless covid cracks government revenues too much. I hope I can make it for next 13 years to finish it off. One threat is outsourcing of our jobs, but outsourcing failed in the last 3 attempts.

I work on AWS on infrastructure, networking and data services.

AWS market is crowded by lots of cheap labor and is getting cheaper by the day.

Pension:
Yes, confirmed that the pension is 75% of average of last 5 years and its starts immediately at any age, only when completing 30 years of service (13 yrs away).

I started young in here, which comes handy in this scenario.

Do you get health benefits if you retire at 52? I have a vested pension, but no health benefits. It makes it much more difficult to retire early

Invictus002 · Post by **Invictus002** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:17 am

Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:05 am Just out of curiosity how did you accumulate 1.4M on 115k and less earlier in your career? Any inheritance or did your SO work previously? That’s an impressive amount to accumulate

We are dual income ($205k). We have been saving about 50% of income over these years. We did net $100k in selling previous residence. We maximize tax deferrals to the full extent, collect rent at 2 investment properties that nets about 6k a year after costs and mortgage.

We are at 90% equities (schwab ETFs and sp500 on deferred comp) over last decade, which contributed ~50% average return rate. Have also managed to lose some money on individual stocks, and about 5k with a vendor that cheated us.

We have about $300k (of 1.4M) sitting in savings accounts earning 0.0%. Market timing got me there, foolish.

Invictus002 · Post by **Invictus002** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:23 am

BobTexas wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:06 am
Invictus002 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:36 am Great points.

Current pay is $115k, with a 1% average raise projected, unless covid cracks government revenues too much. I hope I can make it for next 13 years to finish it off. One threat is outsourcing of our jobs, but outsourcing failed in the last 3 attempts.

I work on AWS on infrastructure, networking and data services.

AWS market is crowded by lots of cheap labor and is getting cheaper by the day.

Pension:
Yes, confirmed that the pension is 75% of average of last 5 years and its starts immediately at any age, only when completing 30 years of service (13 yrs away).

I started young in here, which comes handy in this scenario.
Do you get health benefits if you retire at 52? I have a vested pension, but no health benefits. It makes it much more difficult to retire early

For now, this system offers health benefits at full cost to retiree. I heard it's about $1900/month for a family. The retirees buy this until they reach medicare age.

We have seen the system cutting the health benefits over the years, so I am not sure what will be for future retirees.

Well, if this is too good to be true, we have more lucrative pensions for our public safety and judges at 90% in 25 years, and judges and football coaches are paid more too.

Dopey · Post by **Dopey** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:44 am

Unless you’re unhappy, I would finish out the 13 yrs and then go private sector. Retiring @ 52 would be a high risk of purpose loss for me. And working in the private sector when you COULD retire whenever you want could be fun.

MathIsMyWayr · Post by **MathIsMyWayr** » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:59 pm

If you quit now, how much pension would you get? Your pension is too good to walk away from, but next 13 years is the best remaining years of your life, only one life. It is a tough choice. Since you are expected to be in a good shape financially if you stay at the current job, it shouldn't be because of the financial expectation if you decide to move.