Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

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Stinky
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Stinky »

Uncle Freddie wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:07 am Thank you everyone for the answers so far. I really appreciate it.

The timeshare is in South Carolina, but I live in Michigan.

I have contacted a few Michigan attorneys for their free consultations to talk about this timeshare contract/estate issue. I am waiting to hear back from them for an appointment.

Could I please have your suggestions on what to ask the attorneys when I see them this week?

Should I also contact some attorneys in South Carolina, or will the Michigan attorney I eventually hire do that for me?

About how much money am I looking to spend on this debacle?

Thanks,
Fred
Uncle Freddie,

Your post has prompted a very spirited discussion on this Board.

Please keep us updated as to what you do to untangle this mess.
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AZAttorney11
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by AZAttorney11 »

FIREchief wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:24 pm This thread is amusing. We have two experienced lawyers saying that the OP has no legal obligations, but still a chorus of folks convinced that OP does. :P
And an emergency room physician drawing (incorrect) legal conclusions, as noted by Bruce up thread.
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vineviz
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by vineviz »

FIREchief wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:24 pm This thread is amusing. We have two experienced lawyers saying that the OP has no legal obligations, but still a chorus of folks convinced that OP does. :P
I haven’t seen anyone self-identify as a lawyer say anything like that.

Experienced lawyers aren’t generally in the habit of making such a definitive pronouncement, IMHO, without access to all the facts of the case.

The lawyers whose posts I see in this thread have said something more akin to “it’s complicated, so find a lawyer”. Who has said “I’m a lawyer, and you can just forget about the whole thing”?
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch
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FIREchief
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by FIREchief »

vineviz wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:12 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:24 pm This thread is amusing. We have two experienced lawyers saying that the OP has no legal obligations, but still a chorus of folks convinced that OP does. :P
I haven’t seen anyone self-identify as a lawyer say anything like that.

Experienced lawyers aren’t generally in the habit of making such a definitive pronouncement, IMHO, without access to all the facts of the case.

The lawyers whose posts I see in this thread have said something more akin to “it’s complicated, so find a lawyer”. Who has said “I’m a lawyer, and you can just forget about the whole thing”?
Well, that’s not exactly what I posted.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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vineviz
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by vineviz »

FIREchief wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:17 pm
vineviz wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:12 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:24 pm This thread is amusing. We have two experienced lawyers saying that the OP has no legal obligations, but still a chorus of folks convinced that OP does. :P
I haven’t seen anyone self-identify as a lawyer say anything like that.

Experienced lawyers aren’t generally in the habit of making such a definitive pronouncement, IMHO, without access to all the facts of the case.

The lawyers whose posts I see in this thread have said something more akin to “it’s complicated, so find a lawyer”. Who has said “I’m a lawyer, and you can just forget about the whole thing”?
Well, that’s not exactly what I posted.
Who here is both a lawyer and has said “the OP has no legal obligations”?
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch
Buford T Justice
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Buford T Justice »

I vote for walking away and ceasing all correspondence with the timeshare.

Let the timeshare co. due the research, hire attorneys, find the OP, and pursue the estate... which had assets of zero point zero at death / creation.

OP indicated that he were listed beneficiary on ira / bank accounts; house was transferred prior to death... So what exactly would have been assumed by the estate at death?
MishkaWorries
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by MishkaWorries »

This is so interesting. I'm not a lawyer do bare with me. I don't understand two things.

First, why are people saying this albatross is an "asset" of the estate? If one cannot sell it and one has to pay people to take it off their hands, that sounds like a debt of the estate. So maybe a solution is to open probate, list the debt, list zero assets (since everything else passed outside the estate) and close the estate?

Second, how could OP sell the timeshare on ebay or pay a timeshare distributor to take it off his hands. Wouldn't he have to have a document saying he has legal rights in the timeshare?

If just ignore the timeshare people and any letter Return To Sender with deceased written on the envelope. You can always hire a lawyer if things get more serious.
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Gill
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Gill »

vineviz wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:20 pm
Who here is both a lawyer and has said “the OP has no legal obligations”?
bsteiner has raised the question as to whether OP might be liable as a transferee without expressing an opinion, I suspect because the answer is unknown depending on the court.

Lawyers often advise on strategy. I continue to feel the best strategy is to totally ignore any communications from the timeshare.
Gill
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Big Dog
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Big Dog »

Samosa22 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 2:49 pm
8foot7 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:56 pm
The arrival of the bills. (For what it’s worth I cannot fathom why for seven years the OP decided to pay a bill not addressed to him for something he didn’t use, but I digress.) a reasonable person would view the arrival of the bill as an opportunity to notify the billing party that the decedent had passed and then it would be up to the timeshare company to notify the beneficiary which would point the latter would say no thanks.
Big Dog wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:58 pm
Samosa's Executor or Personal Repesentative notifies the Timeshare Association of the fact that Samosa has passed and Nate is now owner by inheritance. Timeshare Association starts sending Nate correspondence....
Samosa makes sure that Nate doesn't know about inheritance at least 9 months past Samosa's death so Nate can't disclaim the inheritance. Samosa can achieve his objectvie by (a) advising his family to ignore paying time share bill for a few months to close the "9 month disclaim window", or (b) advising his family to pay at least 1 yearly bill after his death, or (c) setting up a bi-annual payment plan with time share and then prepaying annually. Not to mention that even with regular annual payment plan there is a reasonable chance that "9 month disclaim window" will close automatically (i.e. Samosa dies within first 3 moths of making his annual payment, and another bill isn't due until 9 months later.
Once Samosa's designee accepts the job as Executor or Personal Representative, that designee has a fiduciary responsibility to all heirs. If the Executor/PR fails to inform Nate of his inheritance in a timely manner, that Executor/PR can be held personally liable....
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vineviz
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by vineviz »

Gill wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:30 pm
vineviz wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:20 pm
Who here is both a lawyer and has said “the OP has no legal obligations”?
bsteiner has raised the question as to whether OP might be liable as a transferee without expressing an opinion, I suspect because the answer is unknown depending on the court.

Lawyers often advise on strategy. I continue to feel the best strategy is to totally ignore any communications from the timeshare.
Gill
“Ignore any communication” doesn’t sound like the same thing as “you have no legal obligation” to me.

Also, how high of an opinion would you (or a state bar association, for that matter) hold of a lawyer whose advice was “you likely DO have a legal obligation for this timeshare, but you should ignore any attempt by the obligee to collect on that obligation”?

I know what MY opinion would be of such a lawyer, if they existed.
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch
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sergeant
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by sergeant »

8foot7 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:10 am
bsteiner wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:28 am
Uncle Freddie wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:07 am ...
About how much money am I looking to spend on this debacle?
...
Far more than the amount at stake.
This is why I stand by my prior posts and say you should just cut off contact and stop paying.
The general advice to get good legal counsel around certain life events is valid and laudable, and it would have been good to have hired an estate attorney at the time of your parents' passing but in this particular case at this point in time you're going to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars to have expensive folks write mean letters to try to solve an issue that I am 99% certain will just go away if you stop talking to the timeshare people and stop paying.
If in what I estimate is the exceedingly unlikely event the timeshare company is able to (a) somehow convince a court somewhere at some point in time that (b) you should be added to a deed that you were never a part of and (c) must be held to a contract you did not sign, then you can spend the money on a lawyer.
(Note I am not speaking of trying to claw back the money you already sent the timeshare company, which is completely different and is unlikely to go well for you.)

The problem with the advice to resell or to use an exit assistance company is that you don't have title to the timeshare so you have nothing valid to transfer. Correcting that problem would then expose you to the issue of needing to deal with the timeshare in the first place. In other words, your current walk-away defense is "I don't own this so it's not my problem." If you tried to sell the timeshare, then you'd need to go through the steps of gaining ownership to the timeshare, which would then eliminate your current defense.

Sometimes in life fixing a problem and resolving it by tying it into a nice little bow is messy and prohibitively expensive, and in some of those cases leaving a situation to rot without resolution accomplishes the same thing -- it's not worth either party pursuing a resolution -- without the hassle and expense. Some folks can never develop a comfort level with this type of approach.
Excellent post. Leave it to rot. I know of two people that just stopped paying a decade or so before they died. The bills kept coming. After they died their children did nothing. The bills stopped coming. It never impacted their estates.
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8foot7
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by 8foot7 »

vineviz wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:46 pm

Also, how high of an opinion would you (or a state bar association, for that matter) hold of a lawyer whose advice was “you likely DO have a legal obligation for this timeshare, but you should ignore any attempt by the obligee to collect on that obligation”?

I know what MY opinion would be of such a lawyer, if they existed.
Your posts are not demonstrating any level of familiarity with how legal strategy commonly works.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread has run its course and is locked (conflicting legal advice which can be misleading, straying into legal issues).

OP - When you have an update, please PM me and I'll post it here.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by LadyGeek »

Upon further review, this thread will remain locked.

The OP is strongly encouraged to obtain qualified legal advice.

Uncle Freddie - When you have an update, please PM me and I'll post it here.
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