Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Flyer24 »

This is getting beyond the scope of this forum. You need to make sure this is done right and follow the directions of an appropriate estate attorney.

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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

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Upon further review, this thread is unlocked to continue the discussion.

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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by White Coat Investor »

Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:19 pm
Before my mother died, we added my name to the house via a Quit Claim Deed, so my parent's house became my house.
This is probably a bigger problem than the time share. You eliminated the step-up in basis at death on their house.

Good example of a case where using an attorney would have been well worth it.

At any rate, you could probably benefit from a service like this one:

https://timeshareexitteam.com/
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by bsteiner »

White Coat Investor wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:12 pm
Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:19 pm
Before my mother died, we added my name to the house via a Quit Claim Deed, so my parent's house became my house.
This is probably a bigger problem than the time share. You eliminated the step-up in basis at death on their house.
...
It would still be included in the mother's estate (and thus get a basis step-up). Section 2040(a): https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/2040.

Why a quitclaim deed?
Marseille07
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Marseille07 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:12 pm
Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:19 pm
Before my mother died, we added my name to the house via a Quit Claim Deed, so my parent's house became my house.
This is probably a bigger problem than the time share. You eliminated the step-up in basis at death on their house.

Good example of a case where using an attorney would have been well worth it.

At any rate, you could probably benefit from a service like this one:

https://timeshareexitteam.com/
This is pretty much what the OP needs, not a lawyer. My parents used something like that to get rid of their timeshare.
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Uncle Freddie
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Uncle Freddie »

Just a standalone, non-reply post to say Thank you for reopening this thread; I appreciate it.
Last edited by Uncle Freddie on Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Uncle Freddie
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Uncle Freddie »

bsteiner wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:33 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:12 pm
Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:19 pm
Before my mother died, we added my name to the house via a Quit Claim Deed, so my parent's house became my house.
This is probably a bigger problem than the time share. You eliminated the step-up in basis at death on their house.
...
It would still be included in the mother's estate (and thus get a basis step-up). Section 2040(a): https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/2040.

Why a quitclaim deed?

My mother was dying, so we did a Quit Claim Deed in the few weeks before her death. Our understanding in 2014 was that a Quit Claim Deed would allow me to avoid probate. The Quit Claim Deed added my name to the deed of my parent's house. We did it at a lawyer's office.

I don't want to muddy the waters too much about the house; I mention it only to make it clear that my parents had a house that became mine without my having to go to probate, because of the Quit Claim Deed. And some money became mine because I was the beneficiary.

I guess I'm saying that my answer to the question "Well, stupid, why didn't you go to probate???" is that I didn't know I needed to. :(
FoolStreet
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by FoolStreet »

The Boglehead-equivalent community to ask about timeshares is the timeshare user group bulletin board. I can't suggest strongly enough to go over there and engage them. Good luck.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by sergeant »

The quit claim scenario may or may not be a problem. We don't have nearly enough information to declare it a problem.

I'm in the camp of telling the timeshare folks to pound sand. I have spent a bunch of time on the TUG webpage and have read many similar stories. There is no way these timeshares automatically transfer to heirs. If they did could you imagine the control that parents would have over their children? "Better come visit or I'm buying another timeshare."
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by FoolStreet »

White Coat Investor wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:12 pm
Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:19 pm
Before my mother died, we added my name to the house via a Quit Claim Deed, so my parent's house became my house.
This is probably a bigger problem than the time share. You eliminated the step-up in basis at death on their house.

Good example of a case where using an attorney would have been well worth it.

At any rate, you could probably benefit from a service like this one:

https://timeshareexitteam.com/
WCI, speaking generally (I don't know this team, but assume you have personal experience with success from their services, so apologies in advance since I'm generalizing...), I don't recommend going this route. The scam is that companies charge money for exit and then don't do much, if anything. I mentioned down-thread to research from the timeshare user group. Unfortunately, as best I can tell, this sort of thing does need to be a do it yourself project, starting with the rules and processes relevant to the specific timeshare organization, which can be learned from sharing with the other timeshare owners who have gone through it and share their experiences in that community (much like Bogleheaders share our index and low fee experiences).
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by diy60 »

Almost all timeshare contracts have a perpetuity clause. It's a nasty piece of contract language, the contract survives death. It is truly the gift that keeps on taking from the grave.

The estate is responsible for the debt, and I don't believe you can settle the estate until the timeshare issue is addressed. But it seems the OP never went thru the process of settling the estate. Additionally, the OP paid the maintenance fees for many years potentially mudding up the process further. There could be an implied acceptance of the timeshare by paying the fee for years. OP will need to hire an attorney.

IANAL
Last edited by diy60 on Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by diy60 »

sergeant wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:19 pm here is no way these timeshares automatically transfer to heirs.
They don't automatically transfer to the heirs, but the estate is responsible for the debt. You can't settle the estate until you address the timeshare issue. Timeshare contracts have perpetuity clauses. The contract survives death. Timeshares were all the rage a few decades ago. Now a new generation is saddled with their disposal.
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Uncle Freddie
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Uncle Freddie »

FoolStreet wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:13 pm The Boglehead-equivalent community to ask about timeshares is the timeshare user group bulletin board. I can't suggest strongly enough to go over there and engage them. Good luck.
Thanks FoolStreet, I have posted my situation at the TUG Forum as well.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Samosa22 »

Ed 2 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:20 pm First, never go opposite direction on the road, second be friendly to your mother-in-law, third- never buy timeshare.
Agree with the first, the other two are subjective.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by cheese_breath »

I didn't read all the replies. But ignoring the fact that they probably don't want the timeshare back, how can you surrender something you don't own? That in itself seems to be a valid reason for denying your request. (Hindsight) you never should have made any payments in the first place, but now it might take a lawyer to clean up the mess you unintentionally created for yourself.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Samosa22 »

sergeant wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:19 pm There is no way these timeshares automatically transfer to heirs. If they did could you imagine the control that parents would have over their children? "Better come visit or I'm buying another timeshare."
hahaha, thanks for a good laugh. :happy
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by quantAndHold »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:32 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:03 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:51 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:47 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:36 pm I don't think they need a lawyer. The request to surrender was rejected, so the OP just has to keep on paying to be in good standing. Meanwhile, go find a professional who specializes in getting rid of timeshares. My parents went through the same thing and they were able to get rid of it.
OP can’t sell the timeshare because they don’t own it.
My understanding is they inherited the timeshare by paying the fee (which the OP shouldn't have but too late now), thus other people are advising them not to skip payments. If they inherited it then they own it and thus also should be able to sell. It makes 0 sense they have payment obligations on something they don't own.
I think we’re talking at cross purposes. I agree, OP probably inherited it and can’t get out of that. But, OP doesn’t actually have title in their name, so they can’t just run to a timeshare dealer and dump it on someone else. The first step is to either get the title in their name, or find a way to fob it off into someone else without taking title first.

If they’re in a location with a user friendly probate system, they might be able to get title transferred to them without paying a lawyer, if they’re willing to do some legwork. But in this situation, I would start with the lawyer, to make sure there’s not a way out of the problem that they’re missing.
It's a crazy situation the OP is in. The title situation is one thing, but another is if they can just get out of paying altogether. I'm inclined to think that if their name isn't on the deed then they shouldn't have any payment obligations. Just because they happened to pay some fee in the past shouldn't constitute anything.
My take on it is that at this point the estate still owns the timeshare, so it’s the estate that would owe the fees to the timeshare company. I don’t know probate law in every state, but it’s entirely possible that the timeshare company could force probate open to collect the fees from the estate. There were other assets in the estate that transferred to OP, which could be clawed back to pay the bills. So ultimately, OP would still owe the money.

I would be finding a lawyer that knows something about estate law and timeshares to sort this out before the next bill is due. Yes, it might just be a matter of opening probate and disclaiming the inheritance. Or it might be opening probate, taking title to the timeshare, then dumping it. And I have no idea how the significant amount of time that has passed affects anything. But that’s really a question for a lawyer.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by criticalmass »

quantAndHold wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:03 pm OP probably inherited it and can’t get out of that. But, OP doesn’t actually have title in their name...
Those two sentences are in conflict with one another. If OP actually owns real estate/time share, then a deed would reflect that situation. If the OP has an agreement to pay, the timeshare operator needs to produce that agreement. Sure the estate may be responsible for the timeshare/property after death of owner, but the OP is not the estate. A living person is not responsible for a dead person's debts because they have the same or similar names, or once shared an address.

I agree an attorney experienced in the issue licensed in the OP's state is in order if better advice cannot be found online.
The OP's companion thread is also here. https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/times ... lp.311677/

It's not a great time for the time share business. I would not trust anything that any seller, operator, or board of time shares has to say.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Luckywon »

Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:30 pm
I have been paying the timeshare fees but only out of habit (yes, my original sin is this) I have never used the timeshare or lended or rented it to anyone else.

Thanks,
Fred
Could you share how much the fees are?
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by flaccidsteele »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:36 pm Paying the fees at all was a mistake.
+1 this
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by TropikThunder »

criticalmass wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:29 am If the OP has an agreement to pay, the timeshare operator needs to produce that agreement. Sure the estate may be responsible for the timeshare/property after death of owner, but the OP is not the estate. A living person is not responsible for a dead person's debts because they have the same or similar names, or once shared an address.
IANAL, but I'm pretty good at the googling. It's possible that OP has inadvertently created an implied contract of responsibility for the ongoing maintenance fees.
An implied-in-fact contract may also be created by the past conduct of the people involved. For example, a teenager offers to walk a neighbor's dog and is rewarded with two movie tickets. On three subsequent occasions, the teenager comes over to walk the dog and is given two movie tickets. But on the last occasion, the neighbor simply fails to produce the movie tickets. The teenager has a case for claiming that the neighbor created an implied-in-fact contract by regularly producing movie tickets in return for dog-walking services. It is a reasonable assumption.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/im ... ntract.asp

OP has been paying the fees since their mother passed away over 6 years ago, and the fact they have never made use of the timeshare I don't think is relevant. So I wouldn't be so quick to assume OP has no responsibility, especially given the perpetuity clauses in timeshare contracts plus the fact that there was no will and probate was not done.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by flaccidsteele »

TropikThunder wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:20 am It's possible that OP has inadvertently created an implied contract of responsibility for the ongoing maintenance fees.

OP has been paying the fees since their mother passed away over 6 years ago, and the fact they have never made use of the timeshare I don't think is relevant. So I wouldn't be so quick to assume OP has no responsibility, especially given the perpetuity clauses in timeshare contracts plus the fact that there was no will and probate was not done.
+1 this

OP will need to pay some nice coin to fix the problem that they created for themselves
The US market always recovers. It’s never different this time. Retired in my 40s. Investing is a simple game of rinse and repeat
criticalmass
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by criticalmass »

TropikThunder wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:20 am
criticalmass wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:29 am If the OP has an agreement to pay, the timeshare operator needs to produce that agreement. Sure the estate may be responsible for the timeshare/property after death of owner, but the OP is not the estate. A living person is not responsible for a dead person's debts because they have the same or similar names, or once shared an address.
IANAL, but I'm pretty good at the googling. It's possible that OP has inadvertently created an implied contract of responsibility for the ongoing maintenance fees.
An implied-in-fact contract may also be created by the past conduct of the people involved. For example, a teenager offers to walk a neighbor's dog and is rewarded with two movie tickets. On three subsequent occasions, the teenager comes over to walk the dog and is given two movie tickets. But on the last occasion, the neighbor simply fails to produce the movie tickets. The teenager has a case for claiming that the neighbor created an implied-in-fact contract by regularly producing movie tickets in return for dog-walking services. It is a reasonable assumption.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/im ... ntract.asp

OP has been paying the fees since their mother passed away over 6 years ago, and the fact they have never made use of the timeshare I don't think is relevant. So I wouldn't be so quick to assume OP has no responsibility, especially given the perpetuity clauses in timeshare contracts plus the fact that there was no will and probate was not done.
It's a terribly long way to go between walking dogs and movie tickets to deeded real estate obligations, or more relevant--lack there of. Can you cite any legal precedent where a non-owner of a real estate deed or time share was found obligated to abide by someone (dead) else's contract?
Last edited by criticalmass on Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by criticalmass »

flaccidsteele wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:27 am
TropikThunder wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:20 am It's possible that OP has inadvertently created an implied contract of responsibility for the ongoing maintenance fees.

OP has been paying the fees since their mother passed away over 6 years ago, and the fact they have never made use of the timeshare I don't think is relevant. So I wouldn't be so quick to assume OP has no responsibility, especially given the perpetuity clauses in timeshare contracts plus the fact that there was no will and probate was not done.
+1 this

OP will need to pay some nice coin to fix the problem that they created for themselves
Unlikely. They may have significant difficulty in recouping fees paid that they were not required to pay, however.

If OP can join a legal plan for 2021, I would recommend doing so, but this is a pretty clear case due to the deeded property and OP's lack of presence on the deed.
It will be even more fun if the time share contract and/or OP is in a treble damages state.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by TropikThunder »

criticalmass wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:49 am It's a terribly long way to go between walking dogs and movie tickets to deeded real estate obligations, or more relevant--lack there of. Can you cite any legal precedent where a non-owner of a real estate deed or time share was found obligated to abide by someone (dead) else's contract?
So if a non-lawyer can’t cite a precedent they must be wrong? You got me there, I don’t know how to find one.

I don’t think you know how these contracts work though. The perpetuity clause transfers the timeshare obligation to the estate, which then passes to the beneficiaries (OP in this case). Similarly, if you unknowingly inherited a house, you’re responsible for HOA fees and code violations if it deteriorates. It’s all in the contract the original timeshare owners sign, and it doesn’t go away when the owner dies like say a gym membership does. It’s supposed to go through probate, and if a beneficiary doesn’t want to keep it, they have to disclaim it within the time limit prescribed by the state. Most are 9 months but NONE are 7 years.

https://budgeting.thenest.com/timeshare ... 31105.html
For anyone whose parents own a timeshare, you may think you should be allowed to refuse the inheritance if you didn’t sign the timeshare contract. Unfortunately, reality may not be that simple.

For the parents who signed the contract, usually, the only way out of it is death. But even death may not be a true escape, as many timeshare contracts contain what is known as a perpetuity clause. This clause essentially requires your parents to pay the ownership costs for the remainder of their lives. After death, the timeshare becomes a part of their estate and the obligation for the property’s financial upkeep falls to their next of kin or their designated beneficiary.
https://ezexitnow.org/how-to-get-rid-of ... timeshare/
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by TropikThunder »

criticalmass wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:53 am If OP can join a legal plan for 2021, I would recommend doing so, but this is a pretty clear case due to the deeded property and OP's lack of presence on the deed.
It will be even more fun if the time share contract and/or OP is in a treble damages state.
It doesn’t matter that OP wasn’t on the deed, they inherited it when their mom died. OP’s opportunity to easily fix this was during probate (which didn’t happen) or during the disclaimer window (which didn’t happen either). Not 7 years later.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by manatee2005 »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:32 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:03 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:51 pm
quantAndHold wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:47 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:36 pm I don't think they need a lawyer. The request to surrender was rejected, so the OP just has to keep on paying to be in good standing. Meanwhile, go find a professional who specializes in getting rid of timeshares. My parents went through the same thing and they were able to get rid of it.
OP can’t sell the timeshare because they don’t own it.
My understanding is they inherited the timeshare by paying the fee (which the OP shouldn't have but too late now), thus other people are advising them not to skip payments. If they inherited it then they own it and thus also should be able to sell. It makes 0 sense they have payment obligations on something they don't own.
I think we’re talking at cross purposes. I agree, OP probably inherited it and can’t get out of that. But, OP doesn’t actually have title in their name, so they can’t just run to a timeshare dealer and dump it on someone else. The first step is to either get the title in their name, or find a way to fob it off into someone else without taking title first.

If they’re in a location with a user friendly probate system, they might be able to get title transferred to them without paying a lawyer, if they’re willing to do some legwork. But in this situation, I would start with the lawyer, to make sure there’s not a way out of the problem that they’re missing.
It's a crazy situation the OP is in. The title situation is one thing, but another is if they can just get out of paying altogether. I'm inclined to think that if their name isn't on the deed then they shouldn't have any payment obligations. Just because they happened to pay some fee in the past shouldn't constitute anything.
You'd be surprised at our legal system.
manatee2005
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by manatee2005 »

Are timeshare companies the most sleazy things or what?
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by manatee2005 »

General comment to the readers, if your parents are over 60, ask them if they have a will. If not, why not? If they are over 70 cut off all contact until they make a will.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Priam »

Your attorney is correct. You do not own the timeshare as it’s not in your name. I’ve seen many many many many people try to give their timeshares back while alive and it’s incredibly hard. Most children abandon the timeshare and make no contact with the timeshare company because the timeshare company doesn’t want it back either and will make you feel like you are stuck with it. The only luck I’ve really seen is if you get an attorney involved (which can be costly) or if the timeshare becomes delinquent for enough and you are able to find a department at the timeshare company that will accept the timeshare back. Smaller timeshare companies don’t typically have this though so you may be out of luck.

Because you’ve been paying they are going to refuse it back because the account is in balance and timeshare companies do not want to take timeshares back. Most will let it sit for years until they collect a bunch of them and then work on getting them deeded back when they understand no more money is coming.

The TUG forum is a good place to ask but they will probably tell you the same thing. Keep making sure to keep your information out of their system because they WILL try to change the billing information into your name if they can get your birthday, social, etc... and then use it as a tactic to say that you own it now.
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galawdawg
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by galawdawg »

IANYL and am likely not admitted to practice in your state. However, it appears that you may in fact now own the timeshare, along with all of the obligations that come along with it. If your attorney is not experienced in handling estates and issues of inheritance, then you may wish to find one who is. Whether the timeshare passed to you upon your parents' death depends upon the terms of the timeshare contract, whether a beneficiary was named in the timeshare agreement, and the specific laws of your state. You are also likely beyond the period during which you can disclaim your inheritance.

If your attorney is experienced and knowledgeable in estate matters, you may wish to engage him to assist you in ridding yourself of this burden. If your attorney lacks that experience, you may wish to consult with another trusted and recommended attorney who is competent to advise and assist in this issue.

Regrettably, this is the type of matter than can arise when people don't consult with competent and trusted legal counsel. I understand that some find the cost of legal advice and services to be too expensive, others are intimidated or overwhelmed by the prospect of finding and hiring an attorney, and yet some prefer to take a DIY approach to legal matters in their life and believe they are competent to do so. I'm certainly not casting any aspersions on the OP, but this dilemma may serve as a "cautionary tale" to others that neglecting to consult or retain an attorney when appropriate is fraught with hazards and pitfalls. One should always consult with an attorney when dealing with the estate of a family member. The same holds true any other time that expert knowledge of the law is required or when a question arises in one's financial and other affairs that calls for a legal analysis or conclusion. This is particularly true when the repercussions of "getting it wrong" could be quite expensive or onerous. As they say, "you don't know what you don't know."

Best wishes, OP. I hope you and your attorney are able to get this worked out!
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JoeRetire
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by JoeRetire »

Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:26 pmThe attorney meeting I mentioned is the meeting that happened in September, before sending the letter to the timeshare company. I met with the attorney for help figuring out what my letter should say.

I sent the letter after that, and I have received their "surrender denial" response today, 2 months later.
Hopefully the attorney told you what to do if the timeshare company kept billing you even after sending the letter.
Do that.
"I'm shocked that the estate attorney didn't explain that to you."

I did not hire an estate attorney unfortunately, because my parents did not have an estate or will. Just the house and an IRA. The timeshare was an afterthought that I kept paying the bill for, unfortunately.
They did have an estate. Their estate consisted of at least the house and IRA, as well as the timeshare.

Estate (noun): all the money and property owned by a particular person, especially at death.

Your situation is a good reminder that we should all have a will, written by a good estate attorney. Not only were you left confused about the timeshare, but having your name added to the house was a mistake that many folks make. A good attorney would have explained to your mother why that was a bad idea.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rkhusky
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by rkhusky »

Just because something is in a signed contract does not make it enforceable. A lawyer would know if a clause is valid or not and whether or not similar clauses have been upheld by courts.

While the OP may not be responsible for the debt, the estate likely is. If the OP were to turn over the full estate to the timeshare company, his obligation should end. If the estate is large, the OP may not want to do that. If that is the case, contact a lawyer and/or one of the timeshare disposal companies.

Or the OP could decide to keep the timeshare and keep paying the fees. Also, check out whether the timeshare has any value. Sometimes you can swap weeks for the use of other timeshares in more convenient or desirable locations.
fundseeker
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by fundseeker »

Seems like everyone has covered the timeshare and house (quit claim deed) issue, but you also mentioned an IRA.

Did you take RMDs along the way and pay taxes, or pay taxes when you withdrew the money in the IRA(s)?
Shallowpockets
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Shallowpockets »

I am curious as to how much the fees are that you have been paying. Since there have many threads on BHs about timeshares, it would be good to know what people pay as ongoing fees to these timeshares. This is only for my personal curiosity.
Xrayman69
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Xrayman69 »

If the OP is liable even after paying the fees for the first several years what precludes timeshares “owners (LOL” from just putting random names for inheritance of the timeshare responsibilities upon death and making some random individual now liable.

The OP is not liable infinitely for the timeshare maintenance fees. It would seem that a law student could likely find prior precedence and thus foundation for which the timeshare board now “owns” it.

If an individual “inherited” a private property and failed to pay the property tax the property would be the asset turned over. If the maintenance fees are not paid by the decedent than the “asset” would appear to be the timeshare and thus the board has the right to claim. As others have noted it would appear even the time share board doesn’t want this asset. Just because the board doesn’t want the asset doesn’t seem logical that they could force someone else to take it. Seems like a game of tag “your it”
Silverado
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Silverado »

JoeRetire wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:08 am
Hopefully the attorney told you what to do if the timeshare company kept billing you even after sending the letter.
Do that.
OP has never been billed by the timeshare. OP has found random bills in the mailbox for someone else and paid them.
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vineviz
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by vineviz »

Xrayman69 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:02 am Just because the board doesn’t want the asset doesn’t seem logical that they could force someone else to take it. Seems like a game of tag “your it”
The board doesn’t NEED to force anyone to “take” the asset: someone (the OP) already has the asset.

The issue for the OP is how to legally get rid of an obligation that they already have.
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lstone19
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by lstone19 »

Not all timeshares are the same so how one timeshare works should not be assumed to be the same as how the one OP is asking about works.

In some timeshares, you do own a deeded fee simple interest. In such cases, it's a specific week in a specific unit (although in many cases, the actual rules of use allow using different units in different weeks, you still own tangible real property). In others, you merely own an interest in an organization that owns the underlying real estate. The form of ownership and, I suspect, the state where it's located, control the remedies available to the timeshare company.
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Nate79 »

Xrayman69 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:02 am If the OP is liable even after paying the fees for the first several years what precludes timeshares “owners (LOL” from just putting random names for inheritance of the timeshare responsibilities upon death and making some random individual now liable.

The OP is not liable infinitely for the timeshare maintenance fees. It would seem that a law student could likely find prior precedence and thus foundation for which the timeshare board now “owns” it.

If an individual “inherited” a private property and failed to pay the property tax the property would be the asset turned over. If the maintenance fees are not paid by the decedent than the “asset” would appear to be the timeshare and thus the board has the right to claim. As others have noted it would appear even the time share board doesn’t want this asset. Just because the board doesn’t want the asset doesn’t seem logical that they could force someone else to take it. Seems like a game of tag “your it”
Actually you can put people's name as beneficiary on timeshares. It's a great way to get back at your enemies.....
2cents2
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by 2cents2 »

I hope the OP updates us on how this is eventually resolved.

I know that the timeshare rules are different in different states, but I just don't see how the OP could be liable for this timeshare without ownership being legally recorded.

For example, I believe if the property is located in FL you have to hire a Fl lawyer and go through probate to get the ownership transferred and legally recorded. (Unless the timeshare is in a trust).

I think there are varying levels of consumer protections depending on the state, too. So, it might be worthwhile to ask at the state level as to the best way to resolve this issue.
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Uncle Freddie
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Uncle Freddie »

Luckywon wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:46 am
Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:30 pm
I have been paying the timeshare fees but only out of habit (yes, my original sin is this) I have never used the timeshare or lended or rented it to anyone else.

Thanks,
Fred
Could you share how much the fees are?
Luckywon,

They increase every year, but when I started paying, the fee was 910.00. Now it is 1076.00. It seems they increase by 25 to 40 dollars every year.


Thanks,
Fred
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midareff
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by midareff »

Big Dog wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:36 pm I'd find an estate/probate attorney in the state in which the timeshare is located. Every state has different laws on inheritances. A good attorney in that state can tell you how you ..............
after this point I opine a bit differently on this. I suspect that even in 2020 or 2021 the timeshare has some value and could be resold. If it has a resale value larger than the costs of having it titled to you I'd have it titled to you and sell it. Otherwise, I would not respond to any further communications from the timeshare and certainly not pay any additional maintenance or yearly charges. I suspect the timeshare won't accept the surrender because you legally aren't the owner and thereby can't do that, and they can't pay legal fees (for something they don't own) to put it in your name, to be surrendered. It's similar to condominium nonsense.
bsteiner
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by bsteiner »

The original poster couldn't have probated his mother's Will since she didn't have a Will.

Real estate generally passes to the intestate takers by operation of law in intestacy, subject to the power of the administrators to sell it if necessary to pay debts, taxes and expenses.

A donee or beneficiary may generally make a qualified disclaimer within 9 months of the transfer.

However, in this case, in addition to the issue of whether the original poster is responsible for the maintenance as the owner, there's also the issue of whether his mother's estate is responsible for the maintenance. That leads to the issue of whether the beneficiaries of her estate are then responsible as transferees up to the value of the other assets that they received upon her death.

Perhaps a solution might be to try to sell the timeshare on eBay for a nominal price. Someone may be willing to pay $1 for it, and take over the maintenance payments.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by cheese_breath »

bsteiner wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:02 am
Perhaps a solution might be to try to sell the timeshare on eBay for a nominal price. Someone may be willing to pay $1 for it, and take over the maintenance payments.
But who has the authority to sell it?
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Uncle Freddie
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Uncle Freddie »

2cents2 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:46 am I hope the OP updates us on how this is eventually resolved.

I know that the timeshare rules are different in different states, but I just don't see how the OP could be liable for this timeshare without ownership being legally recorded.

For example, I believe if the property is located in FL you have to hire a Fl lawyer and go through probate to get the ownership transferred and legally recorded. (Unless the timeshare is in a trust).

I think there are varying levels of consumer protections depending on the state, too. So, it might be worthwhile to ask at the state level as to the best way to resolve this issue.
Thanks, 2cents2.

I am in Michigan and the timeshare is in South Carolina.
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Uncle Freddie
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by Uncle Freddie »

Thank you everyone for the answers so far. I really appreciate it.

The timeshare is in South Carolina, but I live in Michigan.

I have contacted a few Michigan attorneys for their free consultations to talk about this timeshare contract/estate issue. I am waiting to hear back from them for an appointment.


Could I please have your suggestions on what to ask the attorneys when I see them this week?

Should I also contact some attorneys in South Carolina, or will the Michigan attorney I eventually hire do that for me?

About how much money am I looking to spend on this debacle?


Thanks,
Fred
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cheese_breath
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by cheese_breath »

IANAL (obvious from some of the questions I ask), but why do you need a MI lawyer? Why can't you work with a SC lawyer directly and save some money on lawyer fees?

edit: I grant a MI lawyer might be useful in lining you up with a SC lawyer, but what's his role after that?
Last edited by cheese_breath on Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by White Coat Investor »

FoolStreet wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:22 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:12 pm
Uncle Freddie wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:19 pm
Before my mother died, we added my name to the house via a Quit Claim Deed, so my parent's house became my house.
This is probably a bigger problem than the time share. You eliminated the step-up in basis at death on their house.

Good example of a case where using an attorney would have been well worth it.

At any rate, you could probably benefit from a service like this one:

https://timeshareexitteam.com/
WCI, speaking generally (I don't know this team, but assume you have personal experience with success from their services, so apologies in advance since I'm generalizing...), I don't recommend going this route. The scam is that companies charge money for exit and then don't do much, if anything. I mentioned down-thread to research from the timeshare user group. Unfortunately, as best I can tell, this sort of thing does need to be a do it yourself project, starting with the rules and processes relevant to the specific timeshare organization, which can be learned from sharing with the other timeshare owners who have gone through it and share their experiences in that community (much like Bogleheaders share our index and low fee experiences).
No personal experience, but there is a guarantee. They get you out within 3 years or you get their fee back.

https://timeshareexitteam.com/what-are- ... guarantee/

While Bogleheads are in general fairly hard-core DIYers, lots of people are not. The OP has been DIYing this for what, 6 years now? How's it going? Maybe time to hire help, no?
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bsteiner
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Re: Timeshare surrender denied, no idea why, please help

Post by bsteiner »

Uncle Freddie wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:07 am ...
About how much money am I looking to spend on this debacle?
...
Far more than the amount at stake.
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