IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

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awizard
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IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by awizard »

My parents recently purchased 260,000 points in the IHG Vacation Club. With this purchase, they want to ensure that these points pass onto me and my sibling upon their death as an inheritance.

A few ground rules of understanding:
1) I understand the basics on how these point systems work (you exchange points for X days/weeks of vacation based on time of year, location etc.). I am not guru at total understanding.
2) I have no direct real world experience at staying at any of these places to know if extra fees are levied when you do activities.
3) Per my parents, they plan to pay off the "mortgage" and then the points would be split between sibling and myself.
4) We would have to pay the maintenance fees after they are gone. Current fees are ~2k / year. split 2 ways would be 1K+inflation adjusted increases.
5) I think my parents way over-payed for what they got and that this is a poor investment (but this is off topic as they are already locked in and beyond grace period). Also, not my decision. They are super happy and seem to enjoy what they purchased.

Questions:
1) For those who are involved in these clubs, what should I expect upon transfer from parents? Assume parents pass away in 20 years, what would the maintenance fees look like based on actual experience knowing that the starting fees are 2K?
2) My parents want sibling and I to sign paperwork that would make us co-owners. This has to be completed within 1 month. I am very reluctant to sign after reading background about timeshares / vacation clubs. Are these reviews accurate (most are around timeshares and not vacation clubs)?
3) My wife and I were informed that we can refuse to sign. In that case, all points would transfer to my sibling. I want to say no and I am fighting this urge of losing out. That said, I am not sold that this a great investment to inherit (like my parents think it is). From those in the fold, how would you classify this on the investment scale? And how hard is it to off load these if unwanted down the road?

Basically, I am trying to become more informed so that I can make a decision on if I want to pass and let all transfer to my sibling. I have always been taught to just take whatever someone gives with a big "thank you." But I am struggling here as this seems to be signing my family up for a lifetime of fee payments.

Any help or experience to share would be greatly appreciated.
mayday23
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by mayday23 »

1.) I don't think anyone can answer this one in a covid/post covid world. A big fear is that there is a heavy levy since many have been shut down/reduced capacity this year. I think the normal rate was 5%-10% increase per year.

If you go on eBay, you can see the used market for buying out people or renting their timeshare. They are cheap on the used market.

You need to figure out how far 130K points gets you. Are you locked into your home timeshare for x days or you need to find out how much 130K points gets you. If it gets you 5 days in Arizona in January, is that worth $200/night for you at an IHG hotel?

Most will say timeshares are bad. You are getting the upfront for free and just on the hook for the $1k/year. Only big issue I see is that once you get it, you are stuck with it unless your sibling wants your share. You can't sell 1/2 a share on the open market.

if the math doesn't work out for you, nothing wrong with saying 'thank you but no thank you' to your Ps.
Lucinjo
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by Lucinjo »

I don’t know much about IHG, but my parents own Marriott Vacation club weeks and points, so I have done some research. Vacation club points are more versatile but more expensive than traditional “timeshare weeks”. You have more flexibility to choose size of unit, location and number of nights. Buying a timeshare or points is kind of like buying a new car and paying sticker price. You take a huge hit in resale value as soon as you commit! However, it can have value in the long run if you understand how to work within the system and you use the points for decades. Here are some things to think about.

1. I assume that your parents have already purchased the points. Probably right around $40-45K for that number of points. Are they paid in full or did they finance? If financed, what is the balance and payment terms. Are the points permanent or do they run a certain number of years (for example DVC points run for 50 years, so after 10 years you would resell for a 40 year term).
2. The other cost is an annual maintenance fee. Do you know how much that is? How will it be split between the co-owners? Can you afford your share and will you use the points?
3. Where are the resorts located, what is the reservation procedure (how many months ahead do you book, minimum nights required, seasonal point changes) and what are the cancellation procedures. Can you borrow (use points from future years) or bank (save points for future years). Can you transfer points to use at IHG hotels?

Best of luck in your decision!
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hand
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by hand »

awizard wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:10 pm My parents recently purchased 260,000 points in the IHG Vacation Club. With this purchase, they want to ensure that these points pass onto me and my sibling upon their death as an inheritance.

...

Basically, I am trying to become more informed so that I can make a decision on if I want to pass and let all transfer to my sibling. I have always been taught to just take whatever someone gives with a big "thank you." But I am struggling here as this seems to be signing my family up for a lifetime of fee payments.

Any help or experience to share would be greatly appreciated.
I think there are two questions here:

1) Do you want the points as an inheritance many years in the future. This is really difficult to determine definitively, but perhaps current market value of the points (as defined by ebay sold listings) will give you an idea if the ongoing maintenance plus rights to stay at the properties is worth anything meaningful now.

2) Is signing paperwork making you a co-owner the best way to transfer ownership on death if you do wish for this as an inheritance. Being a co-owner likely involves some sort of co-responsibility for fees... I'm not sure why your parent's wouldn't just will this to you and let you make the decision when they pass.

My gut says thank your parents for the offer, and politely decline the current co-ownership offer, but leave the door open to inheriting through traditional means if you're not yet sure you don't want any parts of a lifelong maintenance responsibility.

Note that some timeshares have a negative market value - people are willing to pay to get rid of the maintenance obligation.
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awizard
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by awizard »

Thank you all for the responses so far. Here are some answers to questions above:

1) I am not sure if we would be co-owners or if when my parent pass it would be split and treated as individuals. Good point to follow up on here. Thank you for pointing this out.

2) My parents want us to sign paperwork now so that it bypasses inheritance taxes later (from what I understand).

3)I am not sure of their exact spend for the points, but I heard figures in that 40-50K range. As far as I know the points are permanent i.e. infinity.

4) we can afford our share and to be honest we can afford both shares of the maintenance fees. The concern here isn't can we afford. Our concern is "is it worth the cost and do these current small maintenance fees balloon into something significant." 5-10% per year increase proposed above is large YOY increases.

5) their home resort is Myrtle Beach. But they can book in a large selection of locations. Although, I think you have to use a lot of points to travel during peak seasons. I do not have a good handle on this topic of # points per location at X time of year.
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hand
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by hand »

awizard wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:27 pm
2) My parents want us to sign paperwork now so that it bypasses inheritance taxes later (from what I understand).

Are inheritance taxes likely to be an issue based on your specific situation? Inheritance taxes seem to be more of a boogeyman than a real issue for many. In any case, what is the market value of these points, $5k? Tax issue is presumably minimal, and I'd prefer a small tax hit in 20 years to potential legal entanglement today with the potential for unending maintenance fees.
HIMcDunnough
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by HIMcDunnough »

My nickel's worth of free advice is, unless you enjoy the game of timeshares/vacation clubs and have the "flexibility" to take advantage of them, stay far, far away. From my observation, timeshares/vacation clubs are a millstone around most people's neck, and they get locked into staying at the same types of places rather than doing more varied travel. But there are definitely some who get real enjoyment out of beating the system...not sure if they really are, but they think they are and that gives them pleasure, so good for them!

Note: I put "flexibility" in quotes because in reality, you're losing quite a bit of flexibility in your vacation choices by being locked into a particular club. But if you're flexible enough to pay extra when you want to stay outside the system and don't mind "wasting" the points where you could've stayed a property you don't want to stay at, that's not a problem.
inbox788
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by inbox788 »

Avoid!

Don't sign anything! You're agreeing to liabilities you don't understand.

If you're lucky, you might get out for nothing, with nothing, but some of these carry the possibility that you have to pay to get out.

https://linxlegal.com/holiday-inn/
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... tices.html

https://tug2.net/timeshare_advice/get-o ... -HICV.html
PaunchyPirate
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by PaunchyPirate »

My parents got sucked into the bottomless pit of a point-based resort system sold by Wyndham. Their there was always another “benefit” at every corner that they were urged to buy (to make it a better deal!) by ruthless sales people who pretend to be working for you, but really aren’t. My parents sunk more than $100,000 into the scheme thru time and eventually were overwhelmed by the realization of what they had done. While they enjoyed many weeks at nice resorts over the years, I’m sure they could have stayed at equally nice places on their own for a fraction of that price.

The process to unload the burden took 2 years and was done for $ZERO return on their investment. They gave their points away to get out from under the maintenance fees. The company has no incentive to help during the process to sell or transfer your ownership. So they drag it out as long as they can.

Run Away.
golf101
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by golf101 »

My parents own a timeshare and have teased my sister and I that whichever one of us they like least is going to get the timeshare. If this is part of their estate I plan on declining my half. If my sister wants it she can have my half, otherwise it will be turned back over to the company (at least that’s what I understand can happen).

I definitely wouldn’t sign for anything that would put me on the hook for any fees.
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

My parents owned a dozen weeks at Costa Linda, Aruba. They watched weeks for sale and bought directly from other owners. Overall, they did well, although when they rented instead of going, they'd pretty much cover just the maintenance fee. When my dad passed, my mom asked both me and my sister if we would want the weeks in the future. Although we've both gone many times (dozens), we both said no. My mom sold all of the weeks. I think you should consider asking your parents to do the same. It makes life way easier. Now, if I want to go to Costa Linda and stay in the end 3 bedroom suite on the beach, I'll pay money and do that.
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Watty
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by Watty »

awizard wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:10 pm Assume parents pass away in 20 years....
Even if they live another 20 years it will likely be your problem long before then. The reason is that as your parents age they will likely get to the point where they are not able to travel much or want to even if they could.

One big problem with getting timeshares numbers to work is that in addition to the annual fee you would also need to pay for things like airfare so that when you add it all up the total cost per year is pretty significant each and every year especially if you have kids and would need to buy four plane tickets.

If you have limited vacation time you may also run into conflicts with other trips that you want to take like to visit your spouse's family or to go places where there are not timeshares available.

I would decline it and not sign anything.
humblecoder
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by humblecoder »

I own points at another vacation club / timeshare (not IHG). There are two parts to the transaction. Part 1 is the upfront cost of buying the points. That's already in the rear view mirror so there is no point in commenting on that. Part 2 is the annual maintenance. This is usually set on a per point basis and generally increase each area at "around" the rate of inflation. I say around because of your home resort is undergoing some sort of refresh, your annual maintenance might go up more than usual.

With a points-based timeshare, you use your points to purchase nights at the various resorts within the "network". The number of points per night varies based upon the resort, room type, and time of year. You usually have a home resort which might give you some advantage booking at that resort. I don't know the details of the IHG setup, so I cannot provide specifics on how their program works.

I know there is generally a negative knee-jerk reaction to timeshares (and usually for good reason). A lot of that is due to what goes on with the initial sale. However, that decision has already been made. Now you need to focus on what to do post-sale. Here are some key factors in your decision:

- How much would you pay out of pocket for an equivalent vacation versus paying the maintenance fees? If an equivalent vacation would be $3K but you are only paying $1K, then you are coming out ahead.

- Does the network support resorts in places where you would vacation normally? Obviously, if having these points obligates you to vacation more than you would have or in places that you wouldn't normally vacation, then you aren't really coming out ahead.

- Is there a robust market for renting out points if you can't vacation in a particular year? If you can rent out the points, then you can at least make back your annual fee in the years where you can't use the points. Otherwise, you'd be throwing money away in the years where you can't use the points.

- What does the resale market look like for the contract if you decide you want to sell? Some timeshares / vacation clubs have a decent resale market so that you can sell your contract should you decide you don't want it. Otherwise, you'll have to continue to hold onto the contract and pay the maintenance fees indefinitely until you can stumble upon another buyer. Or are there instances where people just give up the contract for free just to get out of paying the maintenance fees?

Bottom line is I would educate yourself on the Vacation Club and examine whether this makes sense for you, based upon what you learn. Good luck!
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WoodSpinner
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by WoodSpinner »

OP,

Check out the Timeshare Users Group....
https://tug2.com/Home.aspx?gclid=CjwKCA ... l0QAvD_BwE

Unless your folks estate is worth above $22MM you likely won’t have to worry about Estate taxes (at least federally). Getting the kids to sign as co-owners is a likely a scam Suggested by the sales people to the next generation into the fees ( versus many who decline to inherit).


WoodSpinner
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David Jay
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by David Jay »

WoodSpinner wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:02 pm Getting the kids to sign as co-owners is a likely a scam suggested by the sales people to the next generation into the fees ( versus many who decline to inherit).
This. Don't sign anything.

If your folks include the points in their estate, you can evaluate at that time and either accept or decline. Don't be forced into making that decision now.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by FIREchief »

nesta wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:23 pm My parents own a timeshare and have teased my sister and I that whichever one of us they like least is going to get the timeshare.
That's really funny! :P I've read that the only way to get out of most timeshares is to die.

I've attended two timeshare sales pitches in Vegas (both entirely as a means to be paid to receive entertainment in the middle of the day.) Just did the second one last month. We were given $150 of real cash (VISA gift cards) to watch their shenanigans and review their great "deals." It amuses me how well they don't answer even the simplest of questions about long term commitments and ongoing "maintenance" fees. I think they wanted us to commit to a ~$40K contract without having any time to even read it. Fun stuff!! :oops:

The "boss" finally asked me point blank if there was any way I would sign up that day. I honestly answered him something along the lines of "there is no way I would ever make such a commitment based upon a one hour presentation." He understood that I was a "no sale" and quickly excused us to collect our cash and go about our business. I know we have a lot of nervous nillys around this stuff (especially the free steak dinners), but for some of us it is just fun and profitable. :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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FIREchief
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by FIREchief »

awizard wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:10 pm My parents recently purchased 260,000 points in the IHG Vacation Club. With this purchase, they want to ensure that these points pass onto me and my sibling upon their death as an inheritance.

Any help or experience to share would be greatly appreciated.
RUN AWAY!!!! :twisted:
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Mr.BB
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by Mr.BB »

They may actually be passing on large maintenance bills in your future. A couple thousand a year split between two doesn't sound like a lot right now but there is no rule there that says they won't be increasing those maintenance fees over the years and if they do some large project that could be adding thousands of dollars a year to everyone's costs. Personally I would thank your parents for the offer but do not accept or have them use your name on any contract for passing along those responsibilities in your future.
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sergeant
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by sergeant »

My MIL has spent over 100k on her timeshare/points vacation scheme through Wyndham. We have enjoyed many vacations across the USA at their facilities. We will refuse the inheritance when the time comes. Every time we visit they try to get us to sign paperwork listing us as co-owners. They really want to lock us into the maintenance fees. No way. Her points are worth about 3k on the secondary market.

OP, stay away from ownership. Let your parents deal with it.
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Priam
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by Priam »

Don’t do it. You are missing out on nothing. I worked with various timeshare companies for 8 years and unless it’s a Disney timeshare (because Disney actually has value) it isn’t worth the paper it is on. When you don’t want it anymore you will be stuck with it and sent to collections, maintenance fees also go up every year and some timeshare developers now have rules in their contracts saying when ownership changes the new owner loses certain privileges as they are not the original owner.

Also timeshare developers can change the value of those points at any time. I’ve seen them jack up the point value on Hawaii properties. This is so you can keep buying more points from them.
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celia
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by celia »

awizard wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:27 pm 2) My parents want us to sign paperwork now so that it bypasses inheritance taxes later (from what I understand).
If you sign something now, you will probably be a co-owner and possibly be responsible for any payments/maintenance fees they don't pay. I think that when they die, no-one has to continue those payments. Is there a way to confirm this?

Of course, if there is a co-owner, the remaining points would go to the co-owner. But are your parents ever going to be subject to inheritance taxes? That sounds like a sales gimmick to me. (This reminds me of when I was a volunteer tax preparer and there were a few people who felt gypped out of their "energy savings"/solar tax credit since they didn't owe any taxes anyway, so there was no way the credit could reduce their taxes.)
4) we can afford our share and to be honest we can afford both shares of the maintenance fees. The concern here isn't can we afford. Our concern is "is it worth the cost and do these current small maintenance fees balloon into something significant." 5-10% per year increase proposed above is large YOY increases.
I doubt it is worth the cost to a Boglehead, especially with unknown fees down the road. What you can do is visit them sometime when they are at the condo/resort and see what it feels like to you. In fact, if there is a site near you, can you visit there without giving your contact info?
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by bltn »

WoodSpinner wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:02 pm OP,

Check out the Timeshare Users Group....
https://tug2.com/Home.aspx?gclid=CjwKCA ... l0QAvD_BwE

Unless your folks estate is worth above $22MM you likely won’t have to worry about Estate taxes (at least federally). Getting the kids to sign as co-owners is a likely a scam Suggested by the sales people to the next generation into the fees ( versus many who decline to inherit).


WoodSpinner
I also think that your parents wanting to sign the children up as co owners of this vacation plan might have been recommended (encouraged) by the sales people.
I wouldn't t get involved.
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by Priam »

celia wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:26 pm
awizard wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:27 pm 2) My parents want us to sign paperwork now so that it bypasses inheritance taxes later (from what I understand).
If you sign something now, you will probably be a co-owner and possibly be responsible for any payments/maintenance fees they don't pay. I think that when they die, no-one has to continue those payments. Is there a way to confirm this?

Of course, if there is a co-owner, the remaining points would go to the co-owner. But are your parents ever going to be subject to inheritance taxes? That sounds like a sales gimmick to me. (This reminds me of when I was a volunteer tax preparer and there were a few people who felt gypped out of their "energy savings"/solar tax credit since they didn't owe any taxes anyway, so there was no way the credit could reduce their taxes.)
Timeshare companies like to record warranty deeds for their points but it means nothing as it is not real property and just another way to charge people money for buying. As long as he and his sister keeps their names and contact information off the radar for this timeshare when his parents die they have no further obligation.

Now they could be nice and mail a copy of their parents death certificates to the timeshare company so that they are notified and call it a day... but that’s if you can even find the address to mail the death certificate to because timeshare companies like to ignore their mail unless it’s from an attorney or you send it to the specific address that handles that type of issue.

Most elderly people who want out just die and let the timeshare company figure out that no one is responding to them anymore.
adamthesmythe
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by adamthesmythe »

Think really really hard before signing on to anything with continuing fees.

My default would be to decline any vacation club or timeshare. AND to explain to any siblings exactly why I was doing so.

This could be another gift that keeps on taking.
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by David Jay »

adamthesmythe wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:34 am Think really really hard before signing on to anything with continuing fees.

My default would be to decline any vacation club or timeshare. AND to explain to any siblings exactly why I was doing so.

This could be another gift that keeps on taking.
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diy60
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by diy60 »

FIREchief wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:04 pm I've read that the only way to get out of most timeshares is to die.
My indirect experience suggests that is only true for the deceased; the heirs are unfortunately saddled with the gift that keeps taking from the grave. I have a distant relative that inherited 3 timeshares a few years ago. Speed forward to today and they are still trying to unload these albatrosses and the estate remains unsettled.
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awizard
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by awizard »

WoodSpinner wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:02 pm OP,

Check out the Timeshare Users Group....
https://tug2.com/Home.aspx?gclid=CjwKCA ... l0QAvD_BwE

Unless your folks estate is worth above $22MM you likely won’t have to worry about Estate taxes (at least federally). Getting the kids to sign as co-owners is a likely a scam Suggested by the sales people to the next generation into the fees ( versus many who decline to inherit).


WoodSpinner

This was my assumption as well based on what I know of estate taxes. My parents estate no where near $22MM.


Thank you all for the responses and solidifying my notion to respectfully decline / run away.
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awizard
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by awizard »

celia wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:26 pm
awizard wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:27 pm 2) My parents want us to sign paperwork now so that it bypasses inheritance taxes later (from what I understand).
If you sign something now, you will probably be a co-owner and possibly be responsible for any payments/maintenance fees they don't pay. I think that when they die, no-one has to continue those payments. Is there a way to confirm this?

Of course, if there is a co-owner, the remaining points would go to the co-owner. But are your parents ever going to be subject to inheritance taxes? That sounds like a sales gimmick to me. (This reminds me of when I was a volunteer tax preparer and there were a few people who felt gypped out of their "energy savings"/solar tax credit since they didn't owe any taxes anyway, so there was no way the credit could reduce their taxes.)
4) we can afford our share and to be honest we can afford both shares of the maintenance fees. The concern here isn't can we afford. Our concern is "is it worth the cost and do these current small maintenance fees balloon into something significant." 5-10% per year increase proposed above is large YOY increases.
I doubt it is worth the cost to a Boglehead, especially with unknown fees down the road. What you can do is visit them sometime when they are at the condo/resort and see what it feels like to you. In fact, if there is a site near you, can you visit there without giving your contact info?

Great advice. We were planning to spend some time with them this year at their resort...then Covid happened.
diy60
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by diy60 »

celia wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:26 pm I think that when they die, no-one has to continue those payments.
Most timeshare contracts have a “perpetuity clause”. Bad for the heirs, good for the salesperson/property. It can tie up an estate and can be a major pain to resolve.
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by FIREchief »

diy60 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:01 pm
FIREchief wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:04 pm I've read that the only way to get out of most timeshares is to die.
My indirect experience suggests that is only true for the deceased; the heirs are unfortunately saddled with the gift that keeps taking from the grave. I have a distant relative that inherited 3 timeshares a few years ago. Speed forward to today and they are still trying to unload these albatrosses and the estate remains unsettled.
I can't imagine that the heirs would have any personal liability unless they willingly signed up for it. I don't believe that I can be "forced" to inherit anything.
diy60 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:40 pm
celia wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:26 pm I think that when they die, no-one has to continue those payments.
Most timeshare contracts have a “perpetuity clause”. Bad for the heirs, good for the salesperson/property. It can tie up an estate and can be a major pain to resolve.
Yikes!! Does this mean that the timeshare may hold some type of a lien on the estate (as a creditor)? These things just get to sound worse all the time. :annoyed (on the plus side, if/when I again accept their free cash for sitting through one of their entertainment sales pitches, I'll be even further removed from any feelings of "guilt." :P )

Perhaps the only real solution would be to pass everything as TOD/POD so that the actual estate has zero assets. Of course, that can introduce a whole other set of challenges. :annoyed
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
diy60
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by diy60 »

FIREchief wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:46 pm
I can't imagine that the heirs would have any personal liability unless they willingly signed up for it. I don't believe that I can be "forced" to inherit anything.
Agreed no one is forced to inherit anything. In my particular example the relative is also the responsible party for settling the estate, so my comment was directed along that train of thought.
FIREchief wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:46 pm Yikes!! Does this mean that the timeshare may hold some type of a lien on the estate (as a creditor)? These things just get to sound worse all the time. :annoyed (on the plus side, if/when I again accept their free cash for sitting through one of their entertainment sales pitches, I'll be even further removed from any feelings of "guilt." :P )

Perhaps the only real solution would be to pass everything as TOD/POD so that the actual estate has zero assets. Of course, that can introduce a whole other set of challenges. :annoyed
Yes, I believe the estate is responsible for the ongoing debt. In my relative's case, 2 were settled within a year or so, the third appears to have dug in for the long haul (2 years and counting). To your point, I would think no assets to go after means the timeshare can go pound sand.

Timeshares were all the craze a couple of decades ago. Now a new generation gets to see the ugly side of those contracts.

IANAL
tj
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by tj »

My dad says that he profits off his Maui timeshares. We've also used them several times. He used to hae other locations but he got rid of them. The Maui ones seem to have some value, and the resort has first right to match anything on EBay, so if anybody sells for bargain priecs on Ebay, the resort will just match it and re-sell it to someone else for massive profits.

I would want to see whats really happening with his Sch E's before choosing to inherit them. :mrgreen:
123
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by 123 »

If you sign on the dotted line as a co-owner that obligates you as responsible for the payments. While a personal agreement may exist on the side between you and your parents/sibling a credit grantor would likely consider the time-share obligation in granting credit to you. So your future credit card, mortgage/refinance, auto loan etc could all be impacted. If the deal goes bad and your parents discontinue payments the unpaid obligation will impact your credit rating as well.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
obgraham
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by obgraham »

FIREchief wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:04 pm I've attended two timeshare sales pitches in Vegas (both entirely as a means to be paid to receive entertainment in the middle of the day.) Just did the second one last month. We were given $150 of real cash (VISA gift cards) to watch their shenanigans and review their great "deals." It amuses me how well they don't answer even the simplest of questions about long term commitments and ongoing "maintenance" fees. I think they wanted us to commit to a ~$40K contract without having any time to even read it. Fun stuff!! :oops:

The "boss" finally asked me point blank if there was any way I would sign up that day. I honestly answered him something along the lines of "there is no way I would ever make such a commitment based upon a one hour presentation." He understood that I was a "no sale" and quickly excused us to collect our cash and go about our business. I know we have a lot of nervous nillys around this stuff (especially the free steak dinners), but for some of us it is just fun and profitable. :sharebeer
This.
I suggest that anyone even considering a timeshare, grow a thick skin and head to Vegas. Take the cheap nights in the fancy hotel. And listen to the spiel. In my case it was 87,000 dollars they thought I would sign up for after a 60 minute pitch. My reaction: WTF! At which point we were unceremoniously shown the door. Via the freight elevator, not the fancy one!

These outfits are leeches, all of them.
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celia
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by celia »

diy60 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:04 pm
FIREchief wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:46 pm Yikes!! Does this mean that the timeshare may hold some type of a lien on the estate (as a creditor)? These things just get to sound worse all the time. :annoyed (on the plus side, if/when I again accept their free cash for sitting through one of their entertainment sales pitches, I'll be even further removed from any feelings of "guilt." :P )

Perhaps the only real solution would be to pass everything as TOD/POD so that the actual estate has zero assets. Of course, that can introduce a whole other set of challenges. :annoyed
Yes, I believe the estate is responsible for the ongoing debt. In my relative's case, 2 were settled within a year or so, the third appears to have dug in for the long haul (2 years and counting). To your point, I would think no assets to go after means the timeshare can go pound sand.
This makes me think that "My Vacation TRUST" should own all the timeshares. Put no other assets in the trust. The grantor/trustor and original trustee would be the buyers. The beneficiary could be the timeshare company. For more fun, if you have more than one timeshare company, put each timeshare company in a separate trust and make the other company be the beneficiary!

(I am not a lawyer either, so run this through your own estate lawyer before attempting this!)
TanisG
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by TanisG »

Don't sign anything you are doubtful about! It may not result as good as it been so far. There's a huge amoung of people who are looking for a way of getting out of these vacation clubs.

https://www.timesharescam.com/blog/135- ... -for-sale/
Afty
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Re: IHG Vacation Club (Possible Inheritance) - Seeking Clarity

Post by Afty »

There is another active thread where someone's parents have passed away and they are unable to get out of their parents' timeshare: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=331178

Food for thought.
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