Umbrella policy exclusion

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student
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Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by student »

In the renewal of my umbrella policy, the following was inserted.

PERSONAL UMBRELLA LIABILITY POLICY AUTO LIABILITY FOLLOWING FORM
III. Exclusions
The following Exclusion is added:
29. The coverages provided by this policy do not apply to "bodily injury" or "property damage" arising out of:
a. The ownership of any "auto" by an "insured";
b. The maintenance, occupancy, operation, use, loading or unloading of any "auto" by any person;
c. The entrustment of any "auto" by an "insured" to any person;
d. The failure to supervise or negligent supervision of any person involving any "auto" by an "insured"; or
e. Vicarious liability, whether or not imposed by law, for the actions of a child or minor involving any "auto".
However, this exclusion does not apply to the extent that auto liability coverage is provided by "underlying insurance" at the time of the "occurrence".
All other provisions of the policy apply.

It seems to me that for auto, it only covers the car that I have insurance with them. If this correct? I will ask my agent but I only switched to her recently so I would like to hear from others too.

Thanks.
afan
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by afan »

I think this just means that the umbrella is purely excess, above the underlying auto policy. That is typical for umbrella insurance. I don't read it as requiring that your auto insurance be with the same company. In theory, having both policies with the same company might avoid finger pointing as each of two separate companies tries to make the other responsible in case of a claim.
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ShadowRegent
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by ShadowRegent »

My read is that it is saying that if the underlying auto policy does not provide coverage for any of the above items, then the Umbrella policy does not either.
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grabiner
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by grabiner »

This exclusion does not apply to the extent that auto liability coverage is provided by "underlying insurance" at the time of the "occurrence".
This suggests that the policy covers any auto as long as that auto is covered by your insurance. If you are driving a friend's car or a rental car, your personal auto insurance still covers you for liability. But if you use an auto in a way not covered by insurance (for example, your policy excludes your son driving your car, and your son drives it anyway with your permission), the umbrella policy will not insure you.

As always, do not treat anything on this forum as legal advice; check with your lawyer or insurance agent.
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cowdogman
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by cowdogman »

I think all this is saying is that auto coverage needs to be an underlying coverage for the listed risks to be covered. Look on your latest umbrella renewal certificate (with your bill) and confirm that auto is one of the underlying coverages.

But also confirm with your agent.
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NewMoneyMustBeSmart
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by NewMoneyMustBeSmart »

student wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:11 am In the renewal of my umbrella policy, the following was inserted.
....
It seems to me that for auto, it only covers the car that I have insurance with them. If this correct? I will ask my agent but I only switched to her recently so I would like to hear from others too.
When I read my personal excess liability, I found a lot of double triple quadruple negative stuff that was really hard to parse.

When I asked the insurance broker to explain it to me - or e.g. why our car wasn't covered under this situation, they explained it wasn't what I thought.

So I wrote up and documented my conversation with the broker's agent in email and asked him to confirm. My assumption then was that if a bad thing happens and they say I'm not covered; I can refer to the email assertions.

Not foolproof but better than nothing. Best case would be to hire an attorney to explain it and mail the company to confirm, for me.
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MikeG62
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by MikeG62 »

afan wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:31 am I think this just means that the umbrella is purely excess, above the underlying auto policy. That is typical for umbrella insurance. I don't read it as requiring that your auto insurance be with the same company. In theory, having both policies with the same company might avoid finger pointing as each of two separate companies tries to make the other responsible in case of a claim.
I agree with this interpretation. They simply seem to be saying you need to have underlying auto coverage up to the threshold where the Umbrella kicks in.

Having said this, I have for the past few years had my Umbrella with the same carrier as my underlying insurer to avoid any risk of things slipping through the cracks. Don’t want the Umbrella insurer finding an out.
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cowdogman
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by cowdogman »

MikeG62 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:29 pm
afan wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:31 am I think this just means that the umbrella is purely excess, above the underlying auto policy. That is typical for umbrella insurance. I don't read it as requiring that your auto insurance be with the same company. In theory, having both policies with the same company might avoid finger pointing as each of two separate companies tries to make the other responsible in case of a claim.
I agree with this interpretation. They simply seem to be saying you need to have underlying auto coverage up to the threshold where the Umbrella kicks in.
Maybe. Here's the language from above:
However, this exclusion does not apply to the extent that auto liability coverage is provided by "underlying insurance" at the time of the "occurrence".
All other provisions of the policy apply.
Could OP post the definition of "underlying insurance" from his policy?
Topic Author
student
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by student »

cowdogman wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:02 pm
MikeG62 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:29 pm
afan wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:31 am I think this just means that the umbrella is purely excess, above the underlying auto policy. That is typical for umbrella insurance. I don't read it as requiring that your auto insurance be with the same company. In theory, having both policies with the same company might avoid finger pointing as each of two separate companies tries to make the other responsible in case of a claim.
I agree with this interpretation. They simply seem to be saying you need to have underlying auto coverage up to the threshold where the Umbrella kicks in.
Maybe. Here's the language from above:
However, this exclusion does not apply to the extent that auto liability coverage is provided by "underlying insurance" at the time of the "occurrence".
All other provisions of the policy apply.
Could OP post the definition of "underlying insurance" from his policy?
OP here. From the document, it says
“Underlying insurance” means any policy providing the “insured” with primary liability insurance covering one or more of the types of liability listed on the Declarations Page.
MikeG62
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Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by MikeG62 »

student wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:09 pm
cowdogman wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:02 pm
MikeG62 wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:29 pm
afan wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:31 am I think this just means that the umbrella is purely excess, above the underlying auto policy. That is typical for umbrella insurance. I don't read it as requiring that your auto insurance be with the same company. In theory, having both policies with the same company might avoid finger pointing as each of two separate companies tries to make the other responsible in case of a claim.
I agree with this interpretation. They simply seem to be saying you need to have underlying auto coverage up to the threshold where the Umbrella kicks in.
Maybe. Here's the language from above:
However, this exclusion does not apply to the extent that auto liability coverage is provided by "underlying insurance" at the time of the "occurrence".
All other provisions of the policy apply.
Could OP post the definition of "underlying insurance" from his policy?
OP here. From the document, it says
“Underlying insurance” means any policy providing the “insured” with primary liability insurance covering one or more of the types of liability listed on the Declarations Page.
Seems clear to me.
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Topic Author
student
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Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Umbrella policy exclusion

Post by student »

Thank you everyone for replying. My agent confirmed that I am covered as long as I satisfied the required retained limit.
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