Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politely explain they're awful

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diydocwifejd
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Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politely explain they're awful

Post by diydocwifejd »

A friend from high school randomly contacted me out of the blue now that he's "passionate about personal finance" and joined northwestern mutual. I am a true boglehead/Dave Ramsey follower (have been learning about indexing, term life, etc. for about 4 years now), so I knew not to buy anything from him. He asked me for 5 contact people, I said no.

Another friend of ours reached out saying that he had contacted her selling her insurance (she wisely declined) and asked her for 10 people's names (which she shared). I told her to contact each and every one of them and have them ignore his call/decline to be sold insurance or give other referrals.

Now I'm in a quandry -- I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance. I'm not sure how do to this. It's not like he and I are super close by the way -- we dated in high school. I just really don't want him to sell awful things to people we both know.

Anyone dealt with this before and care to share how you approached it?
fabdog
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by fabdog »

Now I'm in a quandry -- I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance. I'm not sure how do to this. It's not like he and I are super close by the way -- we dated in high school. I just really don't want him to sell awful things to people we both know.
Good intentions... but you will not make an impact. If he's been thru the training... he likely really believes he is helping people. All you can do is what you've done... warn folks off

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7eight9
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by 7eight9 »

One of my friends from high school went into the insurance business. My parents let him pitch to them for practice. Seemed a decent thing to do.

In your situation I would mind my own business.

Presumably everyone your friend is calling on is an adult who is capable of making their own decisions. As is your friend.
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retiredjg
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by retiredjg »

This person is a salesperson using commonly taught sales tactics. It was a not a "random" contact - he wanted to sell you something. You should just leave it alone. He's allowed to contact anyone he wants.
theplayer11
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by theplayer11 »

diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm A friend from high school randomly contacted me out of the blue now that he's "passionate about personal finance" and joined northwestern mutual. I am a true boglehead/Dave Ramsey follower (have been learning about indexing, term life, etc. for about 4 years now), so I knew not to buy anything from him. He asked me for 5 contact people, I said no.

Another friend of ours reached out saying that he had contacted her selling her insurance (she wisely declined) and asked her for 10 people's names (which she shared). I told her to contact each and every one of them and have them ignore his call/decline to be sold insurance or give other referrals.

Now I'm in a quandry -- I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance. I'm not sure how do to this. It's not like he and I are super close by the way -- we dated in high school. I just really don't want him to sell awful things to people we both know.

Anyone dealt with this before and care to share how you approached it?
you have no business telling him anything of the sort. It's his life..and you admit you aren't even close..why in the world would you say anything?
GoldenGoose
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by GoldenGoose »

Maybe ask him to buy some shares from you in a make-believe Ponzi business in return for you to buy his business. If he declines and give you a reason, you could say you feel the same about what he's selling. That way you let him know indirectly.
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Raymond
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Raymond »

Leave it alone.

Hope you don't hear from him again for a long time (if ever.)

Just be glad you didn't marry him :D

----

I deal with people selling financial services I don't want by telling them I already have "a guy who handles my money".

That "the guy" is a figment of my imagination is neither here nor there :P
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yohac
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by yohac »

diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance.
Horrible is news to me. They like to push whole life and annuities, so BHs have no use for them. But I never heard they were any scammier than anyone else in that business.
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Stinky
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Stinky »

You did the right thing in declining to give him additional contact names.

Now just leave it alone. He’s gone through sales training and “drunk the Kool-Aid”. Any effort by you to make him see the error of his ways will be met by strong resistance. You won’t convince him, and he won’t convince you. It will be an unsatisfying conversation.

There is a huge failure rate for new life insurance agents. Most of them quickly run out of suckers contacts to call. With any luck, he’ll be out of NWML in a year or two.

And yes, be glad you didn’t marry him. :mrgreen:
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123
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by 123 »

We all get pitches all the time from people trying to sell us things. They could be friends or relatives with jobs as salespeople for financial firms, car dealers, or cell phone stores etc. They aren't really interested in knowing why you think their product/service is awful. They usually can't change the product/service. They can only sell what they have. Just decline the pitch/offer and move on.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Dottie57 »

He will be impervious or will get mad.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by yangtui »

I would let it go.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by livesoft »

I would be blunt. I once invited an Edward Jones door knocker into my home, had him take a seat, and told him that his new employer and him were stealing the retirement money from all their friends, their wives, their family, and that I would like to see Edward Jones go out of business, and that I never wanted to see him on my street again and that I expected him to quit his job and get a different job. He left my house white as a ghost. I think you can do something similar.
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Topic Author
diydocwifejd
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by diydocwifejd »

Raymond wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:27 pm Leave it alone.

Hope you don't hear from him again for a long time (if ever.)

Just be glad you didn't marry him :D

----

I deal with people selling financial services I don't want by telling them I already have "a guy who handles my money".

That "the guy" is a figment of my imagination is neither here nor there :P
I love all of this. Excellent advice!
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diydocwifejd
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by diydocwifejd »

yohac wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:29 pm
diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance.
Horrible is news to me. They like to push whole life and annuities, so BHs have no use for them. But I never heard they were any scammier than anyone else in that business.
Touche. Fair point.
bugleheadd
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by bugleheadd »

seems like standard practice for rookie insurance salespeople to gather a list of contacts starting with family and friends then branching out. at least its not a MLM where he tries to recruit ppl under him so he can build his downstream so they can send money upstream.
lstone19
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by lstone19 »

yohac wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:29 pm
diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance.
Horrible is news to me. They like to push whole life and annuities, so BHs have no use for them. But I never heard they were any scammier than anyone else in that business.
News to me too. My wife and I have had term life policies with them for over ten years at rates that seemed competitive. Of course we receive mail reminding us that they can be converted to whole life but that's it. Certainly no hard push for whole life or annuities. Perhaps the agent we've worked with realized we're not interested in those products.
afan
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by afan »

Same here. I have had term policies from NWML and the rates were good. No problem with the service.
I was treated to very mild push to buy whole life, which I declined.

The company gets a bad rap because it is one of the largest sellers of whole life, which few people need. If you are shopping for term it is quite reasonable to see what they offer.

Bogleheads also has a strong tilt in favor of independent insurance agents and hence of the companies that sell through them. Nothing wrong with that. But many top companies sell through their own agents. It would be foolish to rule them out just because they do not sell through independent agents.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by acegolfer »

Curious, what does NWM actually sell? actively managed funds? insurance? advice?
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by petulant »

acegolfer wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:28 pm Curious, what does NWM actually sell? actively managed funds? insurance? advice?
Life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, annuities, mutual funds, probably anything a BD would sell.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by JoeRetire »

diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm Now I'm in a quandry -- I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance.
That doesn't sound very friendly to me.
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hnd
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by hnd »

a guy is just trying to feed his family and i imagine he likely believes what he sells is a really great product. especially if they go from 0 knowledge to knowing only what NW mutual teaches them.

I have a good friend who is a NW mutual sales person. He worked his way up the Best buy ranks until BB shut down the store he was at. They call it "helping families" in lieu of making a sale. I've helped 7 families this month! stuff like that. he had 0 investing knowledge prior. He's made enough of a splash in 2 years where he has hired 2 people to his office so imagine he's doing well.

I facilitate a group of couples at our church and he approached me about my stuff, and also wondered the best way to convey his availability to the rest of the group. I told him that i was uninterested in whole life insurance (he let me know he sold a lot of term as well), but that I had term life insurance and aggressively invested the rest of my money myself. Also mentioning I had no interest in insuring myself once the kids were out of the house.

I showed him my modest portfolio balance and its growth (90% indexing and 0 bonds at that point but he couldn't tell what i was invested in) over the past 10 years and was "like can your products match this?" and he knew at that point there wasn't much more for him to do there. I said, personally I don't think many of these people are in financial places where whole life is more prudent to the than term life and a simple indexed portfolio but these people are grownups and if you are straight with them, thats all I ask.

We are still friends after this conversation and I know of at least 1 person who's bought from him. But in reality they are the type of people that would likely never contribute to a retirement account otherwise and this at least has them doing something.

I've been asked by a few people if they would use him and I've laid out why I personally didn't.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Pacific »

diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm
Now I'm in a quandry -- I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance.
Please explain to me about this horrible reputation. I think they usually place at or near the top as far as customer satisfaction is concerned.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by JupiterJones »

petulant wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:32 pm Life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, annuities, mutual funds, probably anything a BD would sell.
What's a BD?

Bogle-dead?

Is that what we call non-Bogleheads? :D
Stay on target...
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by mhalley »

It’s one thing to tell someone that investing with nvm is a bad idea, but a totally different thing to tell someone that their job and career is horrible and they should find a new career. I would say congrats on your new job, not my thing but you be u.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Stinky »

JupiterJones wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:03 pm
petulant wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:32 pm Life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, annuities, mutual funds, probably anything a BD would sell.
What's a BD?

Bogle-dead?

Is that what we call non-Bogleheads? :D
BD stands for broker-dealer.

But I think that “Bogle-dead” is actually better, and pretty inspired. :D
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by lostdog »

My brother in-law is an annuity salesman for a big insurance company but he sells the products to financial advisors. He's making a killing. A huge house, luxury cars and a beautiful neighborhood.

I keep my mouth shut even though I despise those products and I know he's a theif. I won't risk a tainted relationship within the family.
Last edited by lostdog on Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
petulant
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by petulant »

JupiterJones wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:03 pm
petulant wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:32 pm Life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, annuities, mutual funds, probably anything a BD would sell.
What's a BD?

Bogle-dead?

Is that what we call non-Bogleheads? :D
Yeah, Stinky got it right, broker-dealer. So they could sell somebody ETFs or bonds or whatever.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by acegolfer »

petulant wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:32 pm
acegolfer wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:28 pm Curious, what does NWM actually sell? actively managed funds? insurance? advice?
Life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, annuities, mutual funds, probably anything a BD would sell.
sorry, what's "BD"?
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by inbox788 »

A few years back, a colleagues kid graduated from college and sold a bunch of these type of awful products to friends and family. A few years later, he's going to a top business school, and is now pitching a bunch of awful investments including private equity, private REITs, Opportunity Zone Funds, Master Limited Partnerships, etc. I'm sure the kid is doing well for himself and his firm, but not so clear on the clients.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by bikesandbeers »

Pacific wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:02 pm
diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm
Now I'm in a quandry -- I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance.
Please explain to me about this horrible reputation. I think they usually place at or near the top as far as customer satisfaction is concerned.
I sat through a sales pitch from NWM after a friend gave the salesperson my name. Well, it was actually two pitches, the first the gather some baseline information,about my goals, the second was for them to present a plan. I thought I might actually learn something, and I did want info on term.
They came back with something that was completely laughable, asking me to put 100% of my free cash flow beyond a Roth IRA and the my minimum employer match 401k into a $1.5 million whole life policy. They were really defensive when I asked questions and said that i just didn't understand how that policy would set me up for the right kind of financial future. At that point I had no kids and was not yet married.
And after I declined to buy any whole life, they didn't really want to talk about term or anything else with me, but they did ask if i had any other friends they could talk to!

I am sure people who did purchase from them and don't know any better are perfectly happy with the service. But the reputation is based on their sales practice of getting people into products that are not a good fit for their customers, and very hard to get out of.

To OP, I will agree that you probably won't change your old friends mind, but you can say that you don't think whole life insurance is an appropriate product for most people and you hope he really understands what he is selling.
neverpanic
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by neverpanic »

Post a brief note on Facebook about your personal aversion to these types of products. I suppose you could add that a recent call from an old friend got you thinking about it, and the purpose is to let others know not to reach out to you to make sales. Your post here, plus one to your circle of friends should provide you the catharsis you are seeking - sitting down with the old friend to lecture him on the evil of his ways will not.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by bikesandbeers »

inbox788 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:19 pm A few years back, a colleagues kid graduated from college and sold a bunch of these type of awful products to friends and family. A few years later, he's going to a top business school, and is now pitching a bunch of awful investments including private equity, private REITs, Opportunity Zone Funds, Master Limited Partnerships, etc. I'm sure the kid is doing well for himself and his firm, but not so clear on the clients.
After my NWM experience my wife actually got contact by a fairly recent college grad who she had interviewed for a position (public agency) like 3 months before.
"I am now in personal finance and would love to chat with you about how you can meet your goals." I guess they new guys are supposed to bring in as many leads as possible, but she had a hard time believe that someone 3 months out of school with a non-finance or investing related degree was going to help her achieve her financial goals.
hnd
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by hnd »

linked in is treasure trove for these people. i have half a dozen "connection requests" collecting dust from aquaintances now working for edward jones nd other places
obgraham
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by obgraham »

Lets compare this to another field:
I'm a retired doctor.
I knew a lot of doctors when I was in practice. Lots of them were my friends (still are).
I also knew that a bunch of them were not very good at what they did. But they remained my friends, and I never got into discussions about their abilities with them. Or with patients either, for that matter.

Friends is one thing. Work may be something completely different.
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diydocwifejd
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by diydocwifejd »

bikesandbeers wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:25 pm
Pacific wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:02 pm
diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm
Now I'm in a quandry -- I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance.
Please explain to me about this horrible reputation. I think they usually place at or near the top as far as customer satisfaction is concerned.
I sat through a sales pitch from NWM after a friend gave the salesperson my name. Well, it was actually two pitches, the first the gather some baseline information,about my goals, the second was for them to present a plan. I thought I might actually learn something, and I did want info on term.
They came back with something that was completely laughable, asking me to put 100% of my free cash flow beyond a Roth IRA and the my minimum employer match 401k into a $1.5 million whole life policy. They were really defensive when I asked questions and said that i just didn't understand how that policy would set me up for the right kind of financial future. At that point I had no kids and was not yet married.
And after I declined to buy any whole life, they didn't really want to talk about term or anything else with me, but they did ask if i had any other friends they could talk to!

I am sure people who did purchase from them and don't know any better are perfectly happy with the service. But the reputation is based on their sales practice of getting people into products that are not a good fit for their customers, and very hard to get out of.

To OP, I will agree that you probably won't change your old friends mind, but you can say that you don't think whole life insurance is an appropriate product for most people and you hope he really understands what he is selling.
Thank you! I think that's a reasonable approach
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diydocwifejd
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by diydocwifejd »

lostdog wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:09 pm My brother in-law is an annuity salesman for a big insurance company but he sells the products to financial advisors. He's making a killing. A huge house, luxury cars and a beautiful neighborhood.

I keep my mouth shut even though I despise those products and I know he's a theif. I won't risk a tainted relationship within the family.
Woof. That would be a rough one for me!
Rex66
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Rex66 »

One can use term4sale to see where NWM rates with respect to cost. Most people who think their rates for term are reasonable have their ART. That information is available for pretty much all rate classes.
ChicagoBear7
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by ChicagoBear7 »

To clarify - Northwestern Mutual is not an awful company. They are a strong, well respected insurance company that is also known for an army of agents selling products that might not be appropriate/necessary for @ 98% of consumers. However, if you have a need for permanent insurance, such as a small business co-owner with a Buy-Sell agreement, or someone with an estate over the federal and/or state estate tax limit or if your large estate is primarily comprised of non-liquid assets such as closely held companies, a whole life policy from a financially strong insurer like NWM can be a good option.
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Stinky
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Stinky »

ChicagoBear7 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:51 pm To clarify - Northwestern Mutual is not an awful company.

They are a strong, well respected insurance company that is also known for an army of agents selling products that might not be appropriate/necessary for @ 98% of consumers.
So, paraphrasing your words, NWML trains an army of agents to sell an inappropriate, unnecessary product to the 98% of consumers who don’t need it?

If that doesn’t make them an awful company - what would?
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reln
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by reln »

diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm A friend from high school randomly contacted me out of the blue now that he's "passionate about personal finance" and joined northwestern mutual. I am a true boglehead/Dave Ramsey follower (have been learning about indexing, term life, etc. for about 4 years now), so I knew not to buy anything from him. He asked me for 5 contact people, I said no.

Another friend of ours reached out saying that he had contacted her selling her insurance (she wisely declined) and asked her for 10 people's names (which she shared). I told her to contact each and every one of them and have them ignore his call/decline to be sold insurance or give other referrals.

Now I'm in a quandry -- I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance. I'm not sure how do to this. It's not like he and I are super close by the way -- we dated in high school. I just really don't want him to sell awful things to people we both know.

Anyone dealt with this before and care to share how you approached it?
Dave Ramsey is a scammer too.
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Nate79
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Nate79 »

The first indoctrinated step for a first time whole scam insurance salesman is to contact all their close contacts and family. Once they burn through those contacts it can be slim pickings to find a sucker.
ChicagoBear7
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by ChicagoBear7 »

Stinky wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:43 pm
ChicagoBear7 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:51 pm To clarify - Northwestern Mutual is not an awful company.

They are a strong, well respected insurance company that is also known for an army of agents selling products that might not be appropriate/necessary for @ 98% of consumers.
So, paraphrasing your words, NWML trains an army of agents to sell an inappropriate, unnecessary product to the 98% of consumers who don’t need it?

If that doesn’t make them an awful company - what would?
It all depends upon your perspective. You can think they are awful because whole life policies are not the cheapest insurance option, but if you are part of the 2%, or if you are a private banker, family office manager, estate attorney, tax accountant/lawyer working with the uber-wealthy, you will have different opinion. Their financial strength and ability to write extremely large policies makes NWM, Mass Mutual, NY Life and a few others the "go to" insurers for the life insurance trust type of business.
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by TheDDC »

I will say being on the receiving end as the beneficiary of a whole life insurance policy from NWM, they were not a bad company to deal with. My loved one “invested” in a whole life policy a long time ago. I also chose to keep the proceeds in a NWM retained cash account (not an annuity) which serves as my emergency fund and grosses me 3.5% and is entirely liquid. Since this is obviously not an FDIC insured savings account I do sleep well knowing NWM is quite secure and stable, and they didn’t get that way necessarily by outright swindling people. I also do not receive unsolicited sales calls from any NWM employee, though most likely that is because I am a beneficiary.

Where the rubber meets the road for me is how bad a product universal/whole life is compared to investing in mutual funds for a similar duration. As Dave Ramsey puts it, whole life is the “payday lender of the middle/upper class.”

My cash position is probably getting too large so at some point I will drain this account when it comes time to pay taxes, but like I say as the beneficiary I see no problem with NWM.

-TheDDC
Rules to wealth building: 90-100% VTSAX piled high and deep, 0-10% VIGAX tilt, 0% given away to banks, minimize amount given to medical-industrial complex
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Desperation leads people to take drastic steps including burning bridges. Pitching life insurance on an unsolicited basis is one thing, asking for referrals is another red flag indicative of poor character. You made the right choice in saying no. You dodged a bullet. I would do nothing.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

acegolfer wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:15 pm
petulant wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:32 pm
acegolfer wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:28 pm Curious, what does NWM actually sell? actively managed funds? insurance? advice?
Life insurance, disability insurance, long-term care insurance, annuities, mutual funds, probably anything a BD would sell.
sorry, what's "BD"?
BD - broker/dealer. Think Smith Barney, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo Advisors, Edward Jones, Raymond James, etc. Those are registered broker/dealers with FINRA and the SEC to hawk all kinds of securities and associated products.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Rex66
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Rex66 »

ChicagoBear7 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:44 pm
Stinky wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:43 pm
ChicagoBear7 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:51 pm To clarify - Northwestern Mutual is not an awful company.

They are a strong, well respected insurance company that is also known for an army of agents selling products that might not be appropriate/necessary for @ 98% of consumers.
So, paraphrasing your words, NWML trains an army of agents to sell an inappropriate, unnecessary product to the 98% of consumers who don’t need it?

If that doesn’t make them an awful company - what would?
It all depends upon your perspective. You can think they are awful because whole life policies are not the cheapest insurance option, but if you are part of the 2%, or if you are a private banker, family office manager, estate attorney, tax accountant/lawyer working with the uber-wealthy, you will have different opinion. Their financial strength and ability to write extremely large policies makes NWM, Mass Mutual, NY Life and a few others the "go to" insurers for the life insurance trust type of business.
You can still use term for all of those situations. You will very likely cone out ahead with WL only if you die soon(within a few years) after a 20 or 30 year term policy would have expired depending on age of purchase.

If for some reason you want a permanent death benefit and understand likely you are leaving less money then go for it.
Nowizard
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Nowizard »

Just yesterday, in an article in Kiplinger magazine there was a comment that approximately 50% of retirees either have or seriously consider annuities. They recommended no one commit more than approximately 20% of assets to one. Bogleheads would generally reduce that percentage to zero, but does that mean annuities are terrible, or simply that they are not ideal for one, large group of investors? Without knowing circumstances, blanket recommendations may be invalid.

Tim
lessismore22
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by lessismore22 »

There is almost certainly no need for you to approach your friend about their recent employment decision. NWM associates have an astronomical turnover rate. The few that make it as a living have massive incomes, but the vast majority will move on to their next job once their friends and family have all been used up. Please post back here in 9 months to let us know.
Gill
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Re: Old friend joined Northwestern Mutual -- how to politiely explain they're awful

Post by Gill »

yohac wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:29 pm
diydocwifejd wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm I'd like to follow up with him to explain what a horrible reputation NWM has and that what he's doing isn't personal finance.
Horrible is news to me. They like to push whole life and annuities, so BHs have no use for them. But I never heard they were any scammier than anyone else in that business.
Agree. Northwestern Mutual has always had one of the best reputations in the insurance business.
Gill
Cost basis is redundant. One has a basis in an investment | One advises and gives advice | One should follow the principle of investing one's principal
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