Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

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bigguy8437
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Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by bigguy8437 »

So I just remembered that I purchased bitcoins back in 2012 and I’m trying to obtain them. Does anyone have any experience doing this? I have a confirmation email from Bitinstant isn’t a confirmation and order number. I also have an email from coinapult telling me that my bitinstant was deposited. The only thing is that bitinstant is now a defunct website. Should I be reaching out to coinapult instead?
ensign_lee
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by ensign_lee »

Where was your wallet? Bitinstant? If so...they're probably gone.

Don't know what coinapult is. Just googled it. They say they are a wallet company, so yeah, you should be trying them.

Though I'll point out that if you don't own your keys, they're technically coinapult's coins. #NotYourKeysNotYourCoins
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

sorry for your loss.

fortunately, you're not the only one this has happened to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tMXLDVpPs8
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018 ... oin-losers
transcript:
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/576089767

I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.

(sorry, hope that snarky comment wasn't too toxic. been accused of that lately. of course there isn't an end to these posts until people stop playing with their money and start really investing).
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
aristotelian
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by aristotelian »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:51 pm sorry for your loss.

fortunately, you're not the only one this has happened to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tMXLDVpPs8
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018 ... oin-losers
transcript:
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/576089767

I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.

(sorry, hope that snarky comment wasn't too toxic. been accused of that lately. of course there isn't an end to these posts until people stop playing with their money and start really investing).
You can access your account thru Vanguard. Does that mean you have mutual fund shares located there?
qwerty123
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by qwerty123 »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:51 pm sorry for your loss.

fortunately, you're not the only one this has happened to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tMXLDVpPs8
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018 ... oin-losers
transcript:
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/576089767

I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.

(sorry, hope that snarky comment wasn't too toxic. been accused of that lately. of course there isn't an end to these posts until people stop playing with their money and start really investing).
Yup, and OP's bitcoin "shares" were at bitinstant.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

aristotelian wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:00 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:51 pm sorry for your loss.

fortunately, you're not the only one this has happened to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tMXLDVpPs8
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018 ... oin-losers
transcript:
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/576089767

I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.

(sorry, hope that snarky comment wasn't too toxic. been accused of that lately. of course there isn't an end to these posts until people stop playing with their money and start really investing).
You can access your account thru Vanguard. Does that mean you have mutual fund shares located there?
you right. technically they're held in trust, by a custodian.

Don't think bitcoin is held in trust through a custodian, therein may lie the problem. also not fdic/ncua insured. another problem. vanguard's brokerage is SPIC. don't think that's true of bitcoin.

so bitcoin is riskier in these ways. lose your wallet and your money's gone. not so with Vanguard or my credit union.
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
bogivan
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by bogivan »

bigguy8437 wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:42 pm So I just remembered that I purchased bitcoins back in 2012 and I’m trying to obtain them. Does anyone have any experience doing this? I have a confirmation email from Bitinstant isn’t a confirmation and order number. I also have an email from coinapult telling me that my bitinstant was deposited. The only thing is that bitinstant is now a defunct website. Should I be reaching out to coinapult instead?
As far as I remember, BitInstant just took cash for funding other bitcoin sites/exchanges: they wouldn't be involved at this point.

Coinapult in 2012 didn't do wallet service, but instead just sent coins via SMS or email. You'd then click on the Coinapult link in the SMS/email to collect the coins into a bitcoin address. If they didn't get claimed/"recovered", you should have received an email after 30 days to recover them again. The Coinapult email should have more details.

Did you ever download wallet software back then? If so, the process would have been to click on the Coinapult link and collect the bitcoin into your personal wallet: Coinapult was never supposed to be any kind of custodian, but instead just a way to transfer. If you have the link in your email, you can try clicking on the link to recover the coins, but I'd be surprised if it worked after 8 years.

If you don't think you ever claimed the coins from Coinapult's SMS/email, you can try contacting them. You're lucky that they're one of the few very early bitcoin services that are still around and still reputable I believe. They're based out of Latin America, though, so I don't know what kind of "unclaimed property" laws they're working under. They've also gone through some sort of merger/acquisition so I don't know if that could have absolved them of prior debts.
ScubaHogg
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by ScubaHogg »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:51 pm sorry for your loss.

fortunately, you're not the only one this has happened to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tMXLDVpPs8
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018 ... oin-losers
transcript:
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/576089767

I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.

(sorry, hope that snarky comment wasn't too toxic. been accused of that lately. of course there isn't an end to these posts until people stop playing with their money and start really investing).
In fairness, there are instances in the long history of equity where people got scammed. Just pointing at a few bitcoin instances and saying it can’t be done safely is like pointing at Bernie Madoff and saying, “see! Buying stocks is a scam!”

Not a comment in support of bitcoin, but many on this board range between not understanding it to having an overly negative emotional reaction.
“Unexpected Returns dominate the Expected Returns” - Ken French
bitdocmd
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by bitdocmd »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:51 pm sorry for your loss.

fortunately, you're not the only one this has happened to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tMXLDVpPs8
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018 ... oin-losers
transcript:
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/576089767

I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.
Was this supposed to be a dunk?

Sorry I have to tell you this, but you don't know where your mutual fund shares are. You know the World Wide Web site to log onto to check your "balance."
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

ScubaHogg wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:44 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:51 pm sorry for your loss.

fortunately, you're not the only one this has happened to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tMXLDVpPs8
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018 ... oin-losers
transcript:
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/576089767

I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.

(sorry, hope that snarky comment wasn't too toxic. been accused of that lately. of course there isn't an end to these posts until people stop playing with their money and start really investing).
In fairness, there are instances in the long history of equity where people got scammed. Just pointing at a few bitcoin instances and saying it can’t be done safely is like pointing at Bernie Madoff and saying, “see! Buying stocks is a scam!”

Not a comment in support of bitcoin, but many on this board range between not understanding it to having an overly negative emotional reaction.
that's called a false equivalence. Why?
Custody

One of the warning signs of the Ponzi schemes conducted by Bernie Madoff and Stanford Financial was that both institutions self-custodied their assets. That is, the same institution was responsible both for managing the assets and for holding them.

By contrast, Vanguard (and every other US-regulated mutual fund company) must custody their assets with a third party. All of the funds managed by Vanguard have their assets held with JPMorgan Chase. JPMorgan is audited by PriceWaterhouseCoopers[2], which provides additional, independent verification that Vanguard's funds hold what they're supposed to.

source: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Vanguard_safety
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
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nisiprius
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by nisiprius »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:24 pm...
...All of the funds managed by Vanguard have their assets held with JPMorgan Chase. JPMorgan is audited by PriceWaterhouseCoopers, which provides additional, independent verification that Vanguard's funds hold what they're supposed to.

source: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Vanguard_safety
...
Hmmmm.... just a nitpick, but I don't believe JPMorgan Chase is the custodian for every Vanguard fund, I think they use more than one.

Indeed, here is the language from a Vanguard publication, Your security is a top priority for us
...Vanguard takes the precaution of using several different independent custodian banks. These banks include The Bank of New York Mellon, Brown Brothers Harriman & Co., JPMorgan Chase Bank, and State Street Bank and Trust Company...
I usually find the custodian bank in the Statement of Additional Information, I'll see if I can find one that isn't JPMorgan Chase.

Here we go. Vanguard Charlotte Funds: Statement of Additional Information
Vanguard Charlotte Funds (the Trust) currently offers the following fund and share classes:

Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund
Vanguard Global Credit Bond Fund...

Custodian. State Street Bank and Trust Company, One Lincoln Street, Boston, MA 02111, serves as the Funds' custodian.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

nisiprius wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:37 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:24 pm...
...All of the funds managed by Vanguard have their assets held with JPMorgan Chase. JPMorgan is audited by PriceWaterhouseCoopers, which provides additional, independent verification that Vanguard's funds hold what they're supposed to.

source: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Vanguard_safety
...
Hmmmm.... just a nitpick, but I don't believe JPMorgan Chase is the custodian for every Vanguard fund, I think they use more than one.

Indeed, here is the language from a Vanguard publication, Your security is a top priority for us
...Vanguard takes the precaution of using several different independent custodian banks. These banks include The Bank of New York Mellon, Brown Brothers Harriman & Co., JPMorgan Chase Bank, and State Street Bank and Trust Company...
I usually find the custodian bank in the Statement of Additional Information, I'll see if I can find one that isn't JPMorgan Chase.

Here we go. Vanguard Charlotte Funds: Statement of Additional Information
Vanguard Charlotte Funds (the Trust) currently offers the following fund and share classes:

Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund
Vanguard Global Credit Bond Fund...

Custodian. State Street Bank and Trust Company, One Lincoln Street, Boston, MA 02111, serves as the Funds' custodian.
thanks. i looked in the prospectus and annual report and couldn't find it in either place so defaulted to the bogleheads wiki on the subject.
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
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cos
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by cos »

bigguy8437 wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:42 pm So I just remembered that I purchased bitcoins back in 2012 and I’m trying to obtain them. Does anyone have any experience doing this? I have a confirmation email from Bitinstant isn’t a confirmation and order number. I also have an email from coinapult telling me that my bitinstant was deposited. The only thing is that bitinstant is now a defunct website. Should I be reaching out to coinapult instead?
Oof, rest in peace, OP. Your coins are gone. You accomplished the equivalent of handing a random guy on the corner $100 for a share of Apple with the vague hope that he'd still be standing there 8 years later.

If you're looking to get into cryptocurrencies again, I recommend being your own custodian or, at the very least, using an insured and regulated exchange like Coinbase, Gemini, or Kraken. Again, though, you're far better off being your own custodian. Hardware wallets are a real lifesaver in cases like these.
bogivan
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by bogivan »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:51 pm I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.

(sorry, hope that snarky comment wasn't too toxic. been accused of that lately. of course there isn't an end to these posts until people stop playing with their money and start really investing).
There are plenty of opportunities on these boards to caution people on investing in bitcoin if that is your personal mission, so let me try to (kindly :)) suggest that you don't need to add snark every time bitcoin is mentioned: particularly this kind of post where the original poster was clearly not even asking about bitcoin investing.

2012 had a bitcoin price mostly under $10 and few even thought it would survive into 2013 let alone 2020. It is very possible that the original poster was specifically "playing" with the new technology and likely didn't spend more than $200-500: BitInstant limits were variable, but low. They then left their purchase with a transfer service that made no claim to be anything approaching a custodian holding investments like Vanguard.

A non-bitcoin analogy: what this person essentially did is order a digital gift card online, didn't redeem the gift card, and after 8 years remembered "Wait, didn't I buy a gift card?... maybe someone on Bogleheads could help me figure out how to recover it". They're asking for specific recovery help and your response is "sorry, my investments have FDIC and SPIC"? In both the bitcoin and the analogous situation, FDIC doesn't apply at all and you'd be facing the same kinds of issues trying to reach possibly-defunct companies. Setting aside the question of toxicity, snarky reference to safe investments at Vanguard in response to both is a head-scratching non sequitur.
Flyer24
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by Flyer24 »

Let’s get back on track with the OP. If you have any experience then please offer.
Topic Author
bigguy8437
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by bigguy8437 »

This, thank you. I only invested $20 and was wondering if there’s anyone who knows how I could get it back. All of you mentioning FDIC need to chill out. I emailed coinapult and they said they’re looking into it
bogivan wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:24 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:51 pm I know where my mutual fund shares are. they're at Vanguard.

(sorry, hope that snarky comment wasn't too toxic. been accused of that lately. of course there isn't an end to these posts until people stop playing with their money and start really investing).
There are plenty of opportunities on these boards to caution people on investing in bitcoin if that is your personal mission, so let me try to (kindly :)) suggest that you don't need to add snark every time bitcoin is mentioned: particularly this kind of post where the original poster was clearly not even asking about bitcoin investing.

2012 had a bitcoin price mostly under $10 and few even thought it would survive into 2013 let alone 2020. It is very possible that the original poster was specifically "playing" with the new technology and likely didn't spend more than $200-500: BitInstant limits were variable, but low. They then left their purchase with a transfer service that made no claim to be anything approaching a custodian holding investments like Vanguard.

A non-bitcoin analogy: what this person essentially did is order a digital gift card online, didn't redeem the gift card, and after 8 years remembered "Wait, didn't I buy a gift card?... maybe someone on Bogleheads could help me figure out how to recover it". They're asking for specific recovery help and your response is "sorry, my investments have FDIC and SPIC"? In both the bitcoin and the analogous situation, FDIC doesn't apply at all and you'd be facing the same kinds of issues trying to reach possibly-defunct companies. Setting aside the question of toxicity, snarky reference to safe investments at Vanguard in response to both is a head-scratching non sequitur.
bogivan
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by bogivan »

bigguy8437 wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:49 pm This, thank you. I only invested $20 and was wondering if there’s anyone who knows how I could get it back. All of you mentioning FDIC need to chill out. I emailed coinapult and they said they’re looking into it
Glad to hear they're checking on it! From what I recall Coinapult was one of the more trustworthy services in the space back then so it if is possible to recover, they might be the ones to do it.
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Misenplace
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Re: Difficulty obtaining bitcoins

Post by Misenplace »

An off topic post on whether or not to invest in bitcoin, and several replies to it have been removed. Please stay on topic, which is how to recover bitcoin.
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