Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

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sunny_socal
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Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by sunny_socal »

I'm currently working full time for a Megacorp. The workload is very moderate and some days I have almost nothing to do. I milk my tasks and 'work' maybe half an hour to a couple hours per day. There are usually some morning meetings where I'm just a fly on the wall, those are usually over by noon.

After covid it has been WFH (work from home.) Return to office is next summer - potentially. These days tech companies are very leery of being the first one to open. I've been pretty bored.

Woke up to find a new job inquiry in my linkedin:
- Contract position within my line of work, rather short term (4 months)
- Remote work. I could just stay home! :wink:
- It's coding/programming, environment is startup-like and seems casual

I haven't had an interview yet but I'm very interested! I've always wanted "something on the side" and this seems perfect. I've never done this before but it seems like a piece of cake.

Questions/concerns:
- Since I work full time, is there a problem with that in principle? The technology area and markets are different, no competition
- Any suggestions on how to divide my time? My intent would be to do all my usual tasks for Company1 and remain online throughout the day. Then work on Company2 projects in the afternoon once my AM meetings are over
- The main computer I use belongs to Company1, they have clear policies on proper use (ie. it's for company business only.) I'm prepared to buy a second computer & monitor for use with Company2
- How are contracts like this usually structured? Are people paid hourly or is it salaried for the specified period?
- Are the deliverables agreed upon ahead of time or should I expect to just be "on call" as in a W2 megacorp job?
- Is it better to create a company (ie. my own consulting firm) or just sign up as myself?


Thanks! :beer
HomeStretch
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by HomeStretch »

Does your Mega-Corp have any policy about employees and side work?

If you move ahead with this, be careful not to use Mega-Corp resources (laptop, mobile phone, etc.) or normal Mega-Corp business hours to complete the side work.
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

No.

You cannot work in a related field while employed even after work or on weekends. You may work in a not related field if it does not interfere your main work. For example, you may run a restaurant since you work in tech.

In my former employer, they told a real story of an employee who reguraly spent time (phone) on real estate sales at work. They fired him immediately.
Mr.Chlorine
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by Mr.Chlorine »

What would you do if both companies wanted to meet at the same time?

Check the employee handbook, reach out to company 1's HR if still confused. I would be very careful not to have any overlap between the two. Meaning 8-5 is company 1's time, 5-10 and weekends is company 2's time.
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sunny_socal
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by sunny_socal »

Answers:
- Don't know the policy, I guess I'll look for the employee handbook
- So someone was fired for real estate? I've known people who do just that. They are engineers during the day, realtors on the side... not fired although everyone knew about it and frequently used said realtor for advice.
- If there was a conflict I'd move the meeting to an open slot. It's all zoom calls these days.
sd323232
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by sd323232 »

That's gonna look weird on ur resume going forward if u take job. How are u going to explain to future employers that u had two full time jobs at same time lolol
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sunny_socal
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by sunny_socal »

sd323232 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:40 am That's gonna look weird on ur resume going forward if u take job. How are u going to explain to future employers that u had two full time jobs at same time lolol
I won't disclose the 2nd job. It's just cash on the side. Four months.

Found the employee policy, paraphrased below:
You may not take business opportunities for yourself, your family
or friends that are identified in the course of your work for Megacorp
if this could be contrary to the interests of Megacorp. Nor may you
otherwise use Megacorp property or information or your position at
Megacorp for personal gain or for the gain of your family or friends.
And...
You may not take any employment or engagement outside
Megacorp, with or without compensation, that harms or may harm
job performance at Megacorp or creates or may create a conflict
of interest
. Megacorp employees may not engage in outside
business interests that divert time and attention away from
Megacorp responsibilities or require work during Megacorp working
time.

So if I work 8am-4pm that's Megacorp time, the rest is Company2 time.
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lthenderson
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by lthenderson »

I would not want someone on my payroll whom I was paying to be online and focused on things that benefit my company from 9 to 5 and found out they were only there in the morning and focused on someone else all afternoon. I'm guessing there is a chance that other companies/HR people might feel the same way.
28fe6
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by 28fe6 »

This is something that I, and surely many others have thought about doing many times over.

Now that things are running more remotely there is even more opportunity to do 2 jobs at once, whether they are two full-time jobs or whether one is part-time.

Members of this forum regularly acknowledge the benefits of creating additional streams of income. Usually, it takes substantial capital (such as buying a rental property) in order to generate additional income. Getting a second job generates additional income with practically no investment at all. So even if it's a small amount of money, the return on investment is tremendous compared to typical side-business hustles.

Ability to juggle both jobs depends on the workload and flexibility of each. If you think that you can do it I think that you should. It's not any worse than say, breeding poodles, being a landlord, teaching piano lessons, or painting houses on the side to generate extra money, and I know people who have done those and many other similar things while holding down a full-time job with no problems and nobody would begrudge them working hard to earn extra money. If I could find such a contracting gig, I would already be doing it.

Whether it's allowed under your companies policy is up to you.
Mr.Chlorine
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by Mr.Chlorine »

sunny_socal wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:59 am
sd323232 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:40 am That's gonna look weird on ur resume going forward if u take job. How are u going to explain to future employers that u had two full time jobs at same time lolol
I won't disclose the 2nd job. It's just cash on the side. Four months.

Found the employee policy, paraphrased below:
You may not take business opportunities for yourself, your family
or friends that are identified in the course of your work for Megacorp
if this could be contrary to the interests of Megacorp. Nor may you
otherwise use Megacorp property or information or your position at
Megacorp for personal gain or for the gain of your family or friends.
And...
You may not take any employment or engagement outside
Megacorp, with or without compensation, that harms or may harm
job performance at Megacorp or creates or may create a conflict
of interest
. Megacorp employees may not engage in outside
business interests that divert time and attention away from
Megacorp responsibilities or require work during Megacorp working
time.

So if I work 8am-4pm that's Megacorp time, the rest is Company2 time.
Good update on Megacorp rules. Good luck with the side hustle! As long as you keep them separate and prioritize Megacorp, I see no issues.
adamthesmythe
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by adamthesmythe »

HomeStretch wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:34 am Does your Mega-Corp have any policy about employees and side work?
This is the key question. Beyond the issue of "allowable" there is a concern that you may be viewed as less committed if your side job becomes known.

MathIsMyWayr is too categorical but side work should be approached with considerable care.
stoptothink
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by stoptothink »

I know for a fact that a few of my employees have 2nd (contract) jobs on the side. As long as they are meeting performance metrics for me, I couldn't care less what they are doing with the rest of their time. I know some of my colleagues (and maybe HR departments) that wouldn't agree though.
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

adamthesmythe wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:45 am
HomeStretch wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:34 am Does your Mega-Corp have any policy about employees and side work?
This is the key question. Beyond the issue of "allowable" there is a concern that you may be viewed as less committed if your side job becomes known.

MathIsMyWayr is too categorical but side work should be approached with considerable care.
When I was with a Mega-Corp, employees went through sessions with the legal department on topics including employee 2nd jobs. They made it clear with examples such as the one I cited earlier. They emphasized that any work a full-time employee does using the knowledge and experience the company hire him for should be exclusive for and belongs to the company.

A case of Steve Wozniak: https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/blo ... ple-1.html
While designing scientific calculators at HP during the day, Wozniak developed what would become the Apple I at night and on weekends — often in his HP cubicle.

Wozniak designed the hardware, circuit board designs, and operating system for the Apple I.

The scrupulous and loyal Wozniak first took his "project" to his employer.

"I begged (HP) to make the (Apple I)," he said. "Five times they turned me down."
z91
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by z91 »

I think trying to interpret the handbook and not disclosing will not end will.

I'd find it easy to send an email to HR to disclose the situation and ask them to "bless" the work. That way you're clear.

Worst case they find out about the job sooner or later and make your life miserable (including and up to termination) because of how THEY interpret the handbook.
bampf
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by bampf »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:54 am No.

You cannot work in a related field while employed even after work or on weekends. You may work in a not related field if it does not interfere your main work. For example, you may run a restaurant since you work in tech.

In my former employer, they told a real story of an employee who reguraly spent time (phone) on real estate sales at work. They fired him immediately.
I don't understand this notion of indentured servitude that is somehow promoted. Your employer doesn't own you, your time and or give you permission to do or not do certain things. You exchange your labor for a pay check. That contract ends the minute they no longer find it valuable (or you do). If you don't violate any laws, if you act in good faith, if you complete assigned tasks and meet their needs, then you can do anything you like. When I was younger I had to work three jobs. I worked for two different fast food companies and a restaurant. If the handbook doesn't explicitly prohibit moonlighting, go do what you gotta do.

What is problematic is the notion that megacorp finds you valuable if you have that little impact/engagement. That is a message that will surely come home to roost at some point. Which kind of argues that you should be looking for alternatives. Do what you gotta do to survive, take care of yourself. Provide good value for the paycheck you get, but, make sure you have a future. Surely no one else will.
28fe6
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by 28fe6 »

Instead of asking HR, why not ask your direct supervisor?

If your direct supervisor is notified of the work (keep a copy of the emails), then maybe it never gets to HR and they never get a chance to dig through the procedures and decide how to interpret them. Your direct manager has a much better idea of the nature of your work and likely impact to it, anyway, whereas HR, not having domain expertise, won't be able to assess the potential impact of the side job on your work.
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

bampf wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:02 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:54 am No.

You cannot work in a related field while employed even after work or on weekends. You may work in a not related field if it does not interfere your main work. For example, you may run a restaurant since you work in tech.

In my former employer, they told a real story of an employee who reguraly spent time (phone) on real estate sales at work. They fired him immediately.
I don't understand this notion of indentured servitude that is somehow promoted. Your employer doesn't own you, your time and or give you permission to do or not do certain things. You exchange your labor for a pay check. That contract ends the minute they no longer find it valuable (or you do). If you don't violate any laws, if you act in good faith, if you complete assigned tasks and meet their needs, then you can do anything you like. When I was younger I had to work three jobs. I worked for two different fast food companies and a restaurant. If the handbook doesn't explicitly prohibit moonlighting, go do what you gotta do.

What is problematic is the notion that megacorp finds you valuable if you have that little impact/engagement. That is a message that will surely come home to roost at some point. Which kind of argues that you should be looking for alternatives. Do what you gotta do to survive, take care of yourself. Provide good value for the paycheck you get, but, make sure you have a future. Surely no one else will.
You may be confused by the difference between exempt (or salaried) employees and non-exempt (or hourly) employees. Company has to pay an exempt employee a set salary even if he has nothing to do as long as he is employed. I feel free to take time off for valid reasons such as medical care of me or my family or certain urgent personal business such as car breakdowns without a reduction in pay. On the flip side, the job of an exempt employee does not end at the end of his shift. They pay him not for his time at work, but for his expected contribution based on his qualifications. I am in R&D and usually accomplish more off office.

Your past jobs at fast food companies and a restaurant were hourly employment and they only payed for your hours at work and you were free to do whatever you wanted after work.
bampf
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by bampf »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:20 pm
bampf wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:02 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:54 am No.

You cannot work in a related field while employed even after work or on weekends. You may work in a not related field if it does not interfere your main work. For example, you may run a restaurant since you work in tech.

In my former employer, they told a real story of an employee who reguraly spent time (phone) on real estate sales at work. They fired him immediately.
I don't understand this notion of indentured servitude that is somehow promoted. Your employer doesn't own you, your time and or give you permission to do or not do certain things. You exchange your labor for a pay check. That contract ends the minute they no longer find it valuable (or you do). If you don't violate any laws, if you act in good faith, if you complete assigned tasks and meet their needs, then you can do anything you like. When I was younger I had to work three jobs. I worked for two different fast food companies and a restaurant. If the handbook doesn't explicitly prohibit moonlighting, go do what you gotta do.

What is problematic is the notion that megacorp finds you valuable if you have that little impact/engagement. That is a message that will surely come home to roost at some point. Which kind of argues that you should be looking for alternatives. Do what you gotta do to survive, take care of yourself. Provide good value for the paycheck you get, but, make sure you have a future. Surely no one else will.
You may be confused by the difference between exempt (or salaried) employees and non-exempt (or hourly) employees. Company has to pay an exempt employee a set salary even if he has nothing to do as long as he is employed. I feel free to take time off for valid reasons such as medical care of me or my family or certain urgent personal business such as car breakdowns without a reduction in pay. On the flip side, the job of an exempt employee does not end at the end of his shift. They pay him not for his time at work, but for his expected contribution based on his qualifications. I am in R&D and usually accomplish more off office.

Your past jobs at fast food companies and a restaurant were hourly employment and they only payed for your hours at work and you were free to do whatever you wanted after work.
I assure you I am not confused. I assure you I understand the difference between hourly and salary. I also assure you that I used that comparison to indicate even when it could have been perceived to be working against the companies best interest (cooking for three different restaurants) I did what I did to survive.

Any number of megacorps jobs will require you to take personal time for mundane errands. Moot point. Yours does or does not and it adds nothing to the discussion.

The point(s) at hand:
1. May I do other things as long it doesn't conflict with my mega corp job? Yes. You can sell fruit, build a car, run a business etc.
2. If my employee hand book doesn't explicitly prohibit it, can I do it? Yes.

Your company may be annoyed at you and or fire you if you do. That is well with in the realm of possibility. However, if you are exceptional at megacorp, provide good value when you are working for megacorp, then you are probably fine.

Don't violate the employee/employer agreement. They can and will terminate you.
If there is no employee/employer agreement and you are not breaking any laws or contractual obligations, giddy-up.

Finally, if you are that rare individual that can do what you do regardless of putting in any time at all (or alternatively all of your time) then that only strengthens my argument. If it isn't time based, then provide value and do what ever you like the remainder of your time.

--Bampf
random_walker_77
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by random_walker_77 »

bampf wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:02 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:54 am No.

You cannot work in a related field while employed even after work or on weekends. You may work in a not related field if it does not interfere your main work. For example, you may run a restaurant since you work in tech.

In my former employer, they told a real story of an employee who reguraly spent time (phone) on real estate sales at work. They fired him immediately.
I don't understand this notion of indentured servitude that is somehow promoted. Your employer doesn't own you, your time and or give you permission to do or not do certain things. You exchange your labor for a pay check. That contract ends the minute they no longer find it valuable (or you do). If you don't violate any laws, if you act in good faith, if you complete assigned tasks and meet their needs, then you can do anything you like. When I was younger I had to work three jobs. I worked for two different fast food companies and a restaurant. If the handbook doesn't explicitly prohibit moonlighting, go do what you gotta do.

What is problematic is the notion that megacorp finds you valuable if you have that little impact/engagement. That is a message that will surely come home to roost at some point. Which kind of argues that you should be looking for alternatives. Do what you gotta do to survive, take care of yourself. Provide good value for the paycheck you get, but, make sure you have a future. Surely no one else will.
Bampf, it depends on the type of work. If you're paid by the hour to assemble widgets, or to process invoices, that's one thing. But if you draw a salary to invent hardware or invent software, companies will typically stipulate that all the intellectual property you invent, which relates to your job, belongs to them. If you're a flux capacitor designer, they don't want you to say that patentA for greatly improving flux capacitors is a personal invention that came to you in the shower before work -- no, they were paying you a salary to design this, and even if you came up with it on your own time after hours, they still own it.

Some employers will put in their policy that 2nd jobs need to be approved, and may specify who needs to do the approval: either your manager, HR, or perhaps even a specific level officer such as your director or VP.
random_walker_77
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by random_walker_77 »

bampf wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:33 pm The point(s) at hand:
1. May I do other things as long it doesn't conflict with my mega corp job? Yes. You can sell fruit, build a car, run a business etc.
2. If my employee hand book doesn't explicitly prohibit it, can I do it? Yes.

Your company may be annoyed at you and or fire you if you do. That is well with in the realm of possibility.

Don't violate the employee/employer agreement. They can and will terminate you.
If there is no employee/employer agreement and you are not breaking any laws or contractual obligations, giddy-up.
I agree with all of this. Be sure that your IP assignment agreement doesn't conflict, and that you're not violating any employer policies. Even so, if you don't get approval and your manager is annoyed when they find out, you could be terminated.

It's probably safer to get preclearance, than to hope they don't find out and risk getting fired .
MarkerFM
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by MarkerFM »

bampf wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:02 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:54 am No.

You cannot work in a related field while employed even after work or on weekends. You may work in a not related field if it does not interfere your main work. For example, you may run a restaurant since you work in tech.

In my former employer, they told a real story of an employee who reguraly spent time (phone) on real estate sales at work. They fired him immediately.
What is problematic is the notion that megacorp finds you valuable if you have that little impact/engagement. That is a message that will surely come home to roost at some point. Which kind of argues that you should be looking for alternatives. Do what you gotta do to survive, take care of yourself. Provide good value for the paycheck you get, but, make sure you have a future. Surely no one else will.
This is a valid point. I had a great job right out of business school where I had high visibility, access to senior management, etc. But not enough to do. I would regularly beg for more projects. I moved around various areas and accomplished things, but never felt fully utilized. After four years, I left to go into an entrepreneurial situation. They asked me to reconsider and stay, but I declined. I still (30 years later) have dreams that I have been on that company's payroll for a decade or more and I feel like I should do more work, but I haven't been to the office in years and I can't remember the passcode to my office voicemail (or what my actual work number is).
nydoc
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by nydoc »

Almost all physicians have multiple jobs with different employers and also have their own practices. Your contract should be clear about your duty hours. Beyond that you are free to do whatever you want.
drk
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by drk »

random_walker_77 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:41 pm I agree with all of this. Be sure that your IP assignment agreement doesn't conflict, and that you're not violating any employer policies. Even so, if you don't get approval and your manager is annoyed when they find out, you could be terminated.

It's probably safer to get preclearance, than to hope they don't find out and risk getting fired .
Yup. I work for a similar Megacorp and started to write the same reply. OP's interpretation of the IP assignment, non-compete, and moonlighting agreements is likely different than Megacorp's lawyers.
bampf
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by bampf »

random_walker_77 wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:36 pm
bampf wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:02 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:54 am No.

You cannot work in a related field while employed even after work or on weekends. You may work in a not related field if it does not interfere your main work. For example, you may run a restaurant since you work in tech.

In my former employer, they told a real story of an employee who reguraly spent time (phone) on real estate sales at work. They fired him immediately.
I don't understand this notion of indentured servitude that is somehow promoted. Your employer doesn't own you, your time and or give you permission to do or not do certain things. You exchange your labor for a pay check. That contract ends the minute they no longer find it valuable (or you do). If you don't violate any laws, if you act in good faith, if you complete assigned tasks and meet their needs, then you can do anything you like. When I was younger I had to work three jobs. I worked for two different fast food companies and a restaurant. If the handbook doesn't explicitly prohibit moonlighting, go do what you gotta do.

What is problematic is the notion that megacorp finds you valuable if you have that little impact/engagement. That is a message that will surely come home to roost at some point. Which kind of argues that you should be looking for alternatives. Do what you gotta do to survive, take care of yourself. Provide good value for the paycheck you get, but, make sure you have a future. Surely no one else will.
Bampf, it depends on the type of work. If you're paid by the hour to assemble widgets, or to process invoices, that's one thing. But if you draw a salary to invent hardware or invent software, companies will typically stipulate that all the intellectual property you invent, which relates to your job, belongs to them. If you're a flux capacitor designer, they don't want you to say that patentA for greatly improving flux capacitors is a personal invention that came to you in the shower before work -- no, they were paying you a salary to design this, and even if you came up with it on your own time after hours, they still own it.

Some employers will put in their policy that 2nd jobs need to be approved, and may specify who needs to do the approval: either your manager, HR, or perhaps even a specific level officer such as your director or VP.
It really doesn't depend on the type of work you do. It depends on the corporate policy that you agreed to when you took the job and the laws of the land.

If you draw a salary to invent self driving AI for cars, you ought not to sell that same expertise to a competitor. You would have a hard time defending that and if you do, you probably should re-evaluate your life choices.

If you build a flux capacitor for NASA, and also come up with a scheme to collect payments over the internet, well, then you are not in conflict with anything fluxy and you can do anything you like. Technology isn't all the same. It isn't like I am selling apples. They can be different enough not to conflict.

If you signed a contract that says "All your IP belongs to US" well, you can't. At least not easily. The rest is lawyer talk and IANAL.

Nothing I have said suggested otherwise:

Don't violate your company policy.
Don't work for your competitor actively harming your megacorp.
If you are worried, seek permission, but, you don't really have to and you sort of implicitly buy into indentured servitude if you do.

Build an app that enables food banks to collect on line donations that has nothing to do what you do? Giddy up!
adamthesmythe
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by adamthesmythe »

nydoc wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:48 pm Almost all physicians have multiple jobs with different employers and also have their own practices. Your contract should be clear about your duty hours. Beyond that you are free to do whatever you want.
I think we need to recognize that there are jobs very different in character.

OP is not a physician, he is apparently a tech worker. Differences include: OP might develop intellectual property valuable to the company; and OP might have little to do for months, and then have an assignment that requires more than "full time" for weeks or more. And...OP has some sort of employment agreement, which may contain restrictions that maybe we don't find reasonable but may well be enforceable.

And a final point that I made before. Even if permitted, outside work shows a low level of commitment to to the organization. Now we all know many organizations don't DESERVE this. But they can and will take this kind of perception into account when the time comes for salary increases (or staffing reductions).

The real solution to being under-utilized is to change jobs. And at least through most of a career, long periods of no personal growth are bad for your future prospects, either with repect to salary or even continued employment.
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

bampf wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:33 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:20 pm
bampf wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:02 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:54 am No.

You cannot work in a related field while employed even after work or on weekends. You may work in a not related field if it does not interfere your main work. For example, you may run a restaurant since you work in tech.

In my former employer, they told a real story of an employee who reguraly spent time (phone) on real estate sales at work. They fired him immediately.
I don't understand this notion of indentured servitude that is somehow promoted. Your employer doesn't own you, your time and or give you permission to do or not do certain things. You exchange your labor for a pay check. That contract ends the minute they no longer find it valuable (or you do). If you don't violate any laws, if you act in good faith, if you complete assigned tasks and meet their needs, then you can do anything you like. When I was younger I had to work three jobs. I worked for two different fast food companies and a restaurant. If the handbook doesn't explicitly prohibit moonlighting, go do what you gotta do.

What is problematic is the notion that megacorp finds you valuable if you have that little impact/engagement. That is a message that will surely come home to roost at some point. Which kind of argues that you should be looking for alternatives. Do what you gotta do to survive, take care of yourself. Provide good value for the paycheck you get, but, make sure you have a future. Surely no one else will.
You may be confused by the difference between exempt (or salaried) employees and non-exempt (or hourly) employees. Company has to pay an exempt employee a set salary even if he has nothing to do as long as he is employed. I feel free to take time off for valid reasons such as medical care of me or my family or certain urgent personal business such as car breakdowns without a reduction in pay. On the flip side, the job of an exempt employee does not end at the end of his shift. They pay him not for his time at work, but for his expected contribution based on his qualifications. I am in R&D and usually accomplish more off office.

Your past jobs at fast food companies and a restaurant were hourly employment and they only payed for your hours at work and you were free to do whatever you wanted after work.
I assure you I am not confused. I assure you I understand the difference between hourly and salary. I also assure you that I used that comparison to indicate even when it could have been perceived to be working against the companies best interest (cooking for three different restaurants) I did what I did to survive.

Any number of megacorps jobs will require you to take personal time for mundane errands. Moot point. Yours does or does not and it adds nothing to the discussion.

The point(s) at hand:
1. May I do other things as long it doesn't conflict with my mega corp job? Yes. You can sell fruit, build a car, run a business etc.
2. If my employee hand book doesn't explicitly prohibit it, can I do it? Yes.


Your company may be annoyed at you and or fire you if you do. That is well with in the realm of possibility. However, if you are exceptional at megacorp, provide good value when you are working for megacorp, then you are probably fine.

Don't violate the employee/employer agreement. They can and will terminate you.
If there is no employee/employer agreement and you are not breaking any laws or contractual obligations, giddy-up.

Finally, if you are that rare individual that can do what you do regardless of putting in any time at all (or alternatively all of your time) then that only strengthens my argument. If it isn't time based, then provide value and do what ever you like the remainder of your time.

--Bampf
Your questions #1 and #2. Yes, you may as long as it does not interfere with your work and there is absolutely no possibility of your employer getting into a similar kind of business in the future. If you have to stay overnight on your side job and cannot be fully awake next day at work, it may be a different story.

Taking a job is not much different from a military enlistment with an open end. During the enlistment period, you are a part of the military. But once out, you are out and free.
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ClevrChico
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by ClevrChico »

I personally would only do this unless both companies approved. (Check your employee handbook on this.) As easy and lucrative as it would be to do, my "downtime" at work is when I've made the most impact and had the best ideas as an engineer.

Time fraud does happen all the time and people have been doing it for years. What I've seen:

- A lead engineer home schooled his kid during normal business hours and tried to make up the time after hours and on weekends. The project delays from lack of collaboration lost our funding, our jobs, and closed the company. His kid made it into an Ivy League on a full ride years later. :annoyed

- A lead engineer worked mostly remote, and we later found out he was working multiple jobs. I'm sure it made him rich. It led to big project delays, frozen funding, and hundreds lost their jobs.

- A technician was doing contract work from his office computer. Security caught his VPN activity into the other company. He was fired.

The main risk for you is trashing your reputation and losing out on future opportunities. That can be worth a lot more than a four month contract, and the tech world is small. The correct approach would be to find a higher paying more engaging job, and resign the current position.
Last edited by ClevrChico on Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.
RetiredAL
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by RetiredAL »

OP,
I would be very leery of have two full-time jobs. Your current employer will not like that. If the the new place really wants you, they'll accept you as an hourly paid part-timer. You could guarantee them 20 hrs a week and occasional surges.

Your current employer could get quite fickle about this. My company before I retired required I notify them of any paid side work I was considering and they made the decision of acceptable or not to them. I know people who got fired for not disclosing, even if there was no conflict.

Lastly, even if all is OK with your current employer, if they do a RIF, will you be at greater odds of being the RIF'tee?
TheExMexican
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by TheExMexican »

As others have said, the type of work you do, whether you are salaried or exempt, etc., are inconsequential.

The ONLY thing that matters is what is in your employer handbook.

Some folks have mentioned that if you are in a technology field, you may have an 'anything you invent belongs to us' clause. If you have such a clause, I would hope you find a different employer, and soon. Most reasonable employers will have an IP assignment clause that stipulates anything you invent while using company resources belongs to the company (and yes, that includes checking your personal gmail account on the company laptop).

Based on my own experience, my recommendation is that if you are fulfilling your obligations at your employer (whether that is putting in a certain number of hours per week, performing specific tasks, completing certain designs, etc.), and are complying with the rules in the employee handbook, then whatever you do on your own time, with your own resources and tools, is nobody's business but your own, and you are under no obligation to tell your employer about it.

About 10 years ago I was in a similar situation. I was working for a technology company, and someone approached me with an opportunity to design and sell a custom product with a guarantee of purchasing a set number of units per year for many years. This potential customer and the product they wanted were in a different industry than my employer, but wanting to be a good employee, I talked to my boss about it. He immediately asked me to turn it down (he actually admitted he was saying 'no' because it was the safe answer and nobody had ever got fired for denying such a request), and mentioned that if I wanted to pursue it any further, we could go to HR and the legal department and open a conflict of interest case with them. I decided to drop things and just be a good employee and even today I regret doing that.

If you are not doing anything wrong or unethical, and your employee handbook does not specifically say you have to disclose other sources of income, the only thing that will come out of notifying your employer (especially if it's a Megacorp) is to have them actively prevent you from taking on this other job. If you truly are fulfilling all of your obligations at your employer, there is no reason why they should ever find out about this other thing (i.e., don't make or take phone calls about Job2 while 'on the job' at Job1 or on Job1's premises - if you have a company cell phone and laptop, don't use them for Job2. Don't miss deadlines on Job1, etc.)

Go for it :P
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

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Topic moved to Personal Finance (employment).
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sunny_socal
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by sunny_socal »

Well I wrote back to the recruiter and made it clear that I have a full-time job at Employer1 and have no intent to quit. The 4 month contract at Employer2 would be a 2nd job. I'm confident I could deliver what they're asking for quite easily (ie. writing a bunch of code in a tech field unrelated to my current day job.)

The recruiter didn't write back, at least not yet. I'm not going to push it. If it falls into my lap it might be fun but it might also add a lot of stress to my family life. Sometimes the best answer to a prayer is "no" :D
TimeTheMarket
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by TimeTheMarket »

based on common sense and more importantly your company guidelines posted above, in my opinion you're okay taking a second job, in tech. It just cannot conflict with your main job, and it cannot be competitive.
Username is not serious :)
bampf
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by bampf »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:05 pm
Taking a job is not much different from a military enlistment with an open end. During the enlistment period, you are a part of the military. But once out, you are out and free.
Wow. Just no. It is very different. The Army, of which I was a part, could order me to attack a hill and risk my life. The Army can suspend literally all of my civil liberties, tell me where and when to sleep, who to associate with, where to live and literally nearly every part of my life.

My job gets my best efforts while I work for them in return with I am able to exchange my labor for their capital.

I can literally quit my job instantaneously. In the Army its called desertion.

A job is not indentured servitude. I am intensely loyal to my company, but, mostly cause I am, its how I was built.

However, I recognize that they are as free to dispense with my services as I am to quit. It happens a lot.
kiwi123
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Re: Offered a 2nd job (contract) Any pitfalls?

Post by kiwi123 »

sunny_socal wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:49 pm Well I wrote back to the recruiter and made it clear that I have a full-time job at Employer1 and have no intent to quit. The 4 month contract at Employer2 would be a 2nd job. I'm confident I could deliver what they're asking for quite easily (ie. writing a bunch of code in a tech field unrelated to my current day job.)

The recruiter didn't write back, at least not yet. I'm not going to push it. If it falls into my lap it might be fun but it might also add a lot of stress to my family life. Sometimes the best answer to a prayer is "no" :D
Sounds good! So many developers, project, and product managers in CA (and elsewhere) that i know that do side-gigs while also doing their "megacorp" jobs competently. Keep it on the downlow from EVERYONE at work (nothing good will come from telling anyone), make sure to read the consulting contract thoroughly (and push back if there is anything "weird" in it), make sure your day job doesn't suffer, and enjoy the extra cash!
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