Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

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BarbBrooklyn
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Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:07 pm

I am going to try to get some clarity from you all about the advisability of financially "helping" in a pretty fraught family situation. I am not seeking relationship advice, just financial direction.

(D)H and I are divorced for many years. We have remained friendly and we are both remarried.

Kid one is financially astute, has one child and is completely independent.

Kid 2 has held a variety of low paying jobs; her interests are academic. She is married and has one child. Right now, she is working part time from home in her field. Her husband, who was in an industry hugely affected by the pandemic is understandably unemployed. They are currently living with ex, although still renting their apartment. The reasons for that are complicated

Kid 3 is financially independent and married.

Son in law appears completely unmotivated to get back to work in any capacity. His chosen field, if he can be said to have one, is low paid, politically fraught and he doesn't have the education to become successful at it . Yes, there is probably an undiagnosed learning disbility.

Ex is proposing that we go in on buying them an apartment and renting it to them for the price of the maintenance while we would pay the mortgage. There would terms and conditions about upkeep (daughter is something of a hoader). Ex is concerned about Granddaughter being in a decent school district, having access to the "good" aka striving and financially astute grandparents, and trying to shape these two into some semblance of financial responsibility.

I have already poured about 20k of my money into grad school for this daughter which was basically pissed away. To buy something would be 400k or so total, split between us, so out of my 1.3M portfolio, not an insignificant chunk. Ex has about 2.5M, but I have a pension and he does not. We are both retired, mid 60s

Any thoughts?
Last edited by BarbBrooklyn on Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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oldfort
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by oldfort » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:13 pm

My initial thought is why is this your problem? I would be inclined to let the ex handle it or else leave them to sink or swim.

jebmke
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by jebmke » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:16 pm

You didn't say what their age is but I'm guessing they are past the point where shaping anything is likely. So it probably comes down to a question that is essentially the same as "do I want to give them $400K?"
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

tashnewbie
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by tashnewbie » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:18 pm

I wouldn’t get involved, but I’m not you and don’t have kids.

How are they currently paying rent on their apartment? Will they soon no longer be able to pay their own rent?

I’d only buy an apartment if it’s a financial decision I wanted to make and wanted to become a landlord. Would you want to buy investment real estate with your ex? How would the property be titled? Would there be gift tax implications?

RocketShipTech
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by RocketShipTech » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:19 pm

How much do you intend to leave them in your will?

Just give them that amount now and let them know nothing else will be forthcoming.

clip651
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by clip651 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:20 pm

You could offer to help pay for diagnosis and treatment of possible learning disability if there is any interest in that ... perhaps using the pandemic time to make progress on that front might pay off in the long term.

The housing idea is a large chunk of money, and it's questionable whether it will solve any problem in the long term. They have a safe place to live at the moment. You may need to bail them out of a true emergency someday down the road, better to keep funds available to do that if needed.

best wishes,
cj

averagedude
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by averagedude » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:20 pm

I feel it is unfair to reward an unmotivated kid, while doing nothing for your other kids that have made good decisions. Have you thought of how your other kids feel about this?

onourway
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by onourway » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:22 pm

It seems like a considerable amount of you savings would be required to do this, which would be concern #1.

Additional questions would be how the other kids will feel with this disparity, and two, what happens if they stop paying rent? Are you going to evict your own kid? I’d want to think through that scenario pretty thoroughly.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:22 pm

Married and ...... adults.

Do not further enable or grow codependencies.
“Help” = long term life subsidy payments.

Adversity grows character and self reliance.

Training wheels turn into permanent crutches if left on too long.

Drop off groceries once in awhile.
k🌺
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Normchad
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Normchad » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:23 pm

Send them to a life coach. You are not rich enough to support them forever.....

Normchad
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Normchad » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:22 pm
Married and ...... adults.

Do not further enable or grow codependencies.
“Help” = long term life subsidy payments.

Adversity grows character and self reliance.

Training wheels turn into permanent crutches if left on too long.

Drop off groceries once in awhile.
k🌺
This is basically a perfect post. Do this.

Minty
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Minty » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:25 pm

Financially, this does not make sense. I am not sure whether the apartment at issue would be 400K or 800K: but either way, it would be (1) very hard to evict your child and grandchild if payments stop, and (2) much more expensive than subsidizing rent, in most places, if you are inclined to do that. As for your son-in-law, I hope his lack of motivation is situational. I wouldn't hold it against a server that they are not eager to go back to work until the pandemic mitigates. But I guess I would encourage you to consider having hard conversations about steps to financial independence (treatment of disability, regular jobs while working toward dream jobs etc.) before putting your own financial situation at risk. We see too many tales on this board of parents whose assets are drained for unsettled children--without even getting the kids in a stable situation. Best of luck.
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Toons
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Toons » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:26 pm

Let Them Figure It Out.
They will be better off,
The just don't know it now
:happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

yules
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by yules » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:31 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:07 pm
I am going to try to get some clarity from you all about the advisability of financially "helping" in a pretty fraught family situation. I am not seeking relationship advice, just financial direction.

(D)H and I are divorced since 2001. We have remained friendly and we are both remarried.

Kid one is financially astute, has one child and is completely independent.

Kid 2 has held a variety of low paying jobs in retail although her interests are academic. She is married and has one child. Right now, she is working part time from home in her academic field. Her husband, who was a server in the restaurant industry is understandably unemployed. They are currently living with ex, although still renting their apartment. The reasons for that are complicated

Kid 3 is financially independent and married.

Son in law appears completely unmotivated to get back to work in any capacity. His chosen field, if he can be said to have one, (not hospitality) is low paid, politically fraught and he doesn't have the education to become successful at it (Has a HS diploma, failed out of college as a teenager and attempted to go back to community college a few years back and was overwhelmed by the demands. Yes, there is probably an undiagnosed learning disbility).

Ex is proposing that we go in on buying them an apartment and renting it to them for the price of the maintenance while we would pay the mortgage. There would terms and conditions about upkeep (daughter is something of a hoader). Ex is concerned about Granddaughter being in a decent school district, having access to the "good" aka striving and fiancially astute grandparents, and trying to shape these two into some semblance of financial responsibility.

I have already poured about 20k of my money into grad school for this daughter which was basically pissed away. To buy something would be 400k or so, so out of my 1.3M portfolio, not an insignificant chunk. Ex has about 2.8M, but I have a pension and he does not. I'm 67, he is 68.

Any thoughts?
You clearly don’t want to do this, based on your language about your daughter pissing away some of your money. So don’t. Buying them an apartment and hoping that they will learn from you by osmosis seems like a band aid solution to the real issue.

The real issue here’s is some combination of lack of motivation, lack of direction, possible learning disability. If you want to spend money on this couple, consider career counseling, therapy, disability diagnosis, financial counseling (even the Dave Ramsey thing that some people think works for them) to address the underlying issues. That will be what truly helps them and gives you the biggest ROI.

Good luck, I am rooting for you and your family,
Yules

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tyrion
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by tyrion » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:34 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:07 pm


Ex is proposing that we go in on buying them an apartment and renting it to them for the price of the maintenance while we would pay the mortgage. There would terms and conditions about upkeep (daughter is something of a hoader). Ex is concerned about Granddaughter being in a decent school district, having access to the "good" aka striving and fiancially astute grandparents, and trying to shape these two into some semblance of financial responsibility.

I have already poured about 20k of my money into grad school for this daughter which was basically pissed away. To buy something would be 400k or so, so out of my 1.3M portfolio, not an insignificant chunk. Ex has about 2.8M, but I have a pension and he does not. I'm 67, he is 68.

Any thoughts?
The way this is written makes me think you would resent their choices on how they keep up the apartment.

Instead of shelling out a large amount of capital, wouldn't it be better to help them rent an apartment in a school district that suits their needs? You could commit to helping with rent for a year, for example. Then if it doesn't go well you're not out $200k / $400k and stuck in a situation co-managing with your ex-spouse on whether you should evict your daughter.

In short, it seems really messy. I would look for a cleaner, less involved way to help.

FarmWife
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by FarmWife » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:36 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:22 pm
Married and ...... adults.

Do not further enable or grow codependencies.
“Help” = long term life subsidy payments.

Adversity grows character and self reliance.

Training wheels turn into permanent crutches if left on too long.

Drop off groceries once in awhile.
k🌺
Yes this. Do NOT sacrifice your hard earned retirement for their new beginnings. You will not help them in the long run, they need to stand on their own two feet. Groceries are good, occasional grandkid babysitting if close enough, be a listening ear when times are tough. A meal out, maybe a conversation about what direction they'd like to go, maybe a Dave Ramsey Course? (I know, bogleheads not a fan, but his get out of debt/get off your butt and get 3 jobs training is good, even if investing info isn't).

Friend of mine had a daughter in a very similar position, but has 2 kids with him. Your SIL description is near identical. In the end, she saw the light of his lazyness and left him. Raised the two kids on her own for a couple years, now has someone much more productive and supportive in her life. If your son in law doesn't shape up, she may ship him out. Maybe he is just afraid of picking a direction now? Is the military an option for him still?

oldfort
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by oldfort » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:38 pm

It's not clear whether the apartment would cost $400k or $800k. Either way, you could send the grandkids to private school k-12 for less.

anakinskywalker
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by anakinskywalker » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:40 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:07 pm
I am going to try to get some clarity from you all about the advisability of financially "helping" in a pretty fraught family situation. I am not seeking relationship advice, just financial direction.

(D)H and I are divorced since 2001. We have remained friendly and we are both remarried.

Kid one is financially astute, has one child and is completely independent.

Kid 2 has held a variety of low paying jobs in retail although her interests are academic. She is married and has one child. Right now, she is working part time from home in her academic field. Her husband, who was a server in the restaurant industry is understandably unemployed. They are currently living with ex, although still renting their apartment. The reasons for that are complicated

Kid 3 is financially independent and married.

Son in law appears completely unmotivated to get back to work in any capacity. His chosen field, if he can be said to have one, (not hospitality) is low paid, politically fraught and he doesn't have the education to become successful at it (Has a HS diploma, failed out of college as a teenager and attempted to go back to community college a few years back and was overwhelmed by the demands. Yes, there is probably an undiagnosed learning disbility).

Ex is proposing that we go in on buying them an apartment and renting it to them for the price of the maintenance while we would pay the mortgage. There would terms and conditions about upkeep (daughter is something of a hoader). Ex is concerned about Granddaughter being in a decent school district, having access to the "good" aka striving and fiancially astute grandparents, and trying to shape these two into some semblance of financial responsibility.

I have already poured about 20k of my money into grad school for this daughter which was basically pissed away. To buy something would be 400k or so, so out of my 1.3M portfolio, not an insignificant chunk. Ex has about 2.8M, but I have a pension and he does not. I'm 67, he is 68.

Any thoughts?
In this situation I would not give money to the adults who have shown such a pattern of irresponsibility.

Your grand child is their own child. Figuring out the best way to educate their child is their business, not yours.

Buy your grand child some good books. School districts don't really matter (as long as the school is not infested with armed gang members).

A few good books are more than enough for anyone who wants to be educated, to educate himself/herself with. And those who don't wish to be educated won't, even if you spend all the money in the universe. So stay out of this. You have done a good job raising three children. Now enjoy your life. You have earned it.

If you do eventually end up leaving money to your kids, all three should get an equal share. There should be no extra for the irresponsible one. Moral hazard.

Anakin
Last edited by anakinskywalker on Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:43 pm

averagedude wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:20 pm
I feel it is unfair to reward an unmotivated kid, while doing nothing for your other kids that have made good decisions. Have you thought of how your other kids feel about this?
Yes, I have. I have a lifelong policy of equal financial treatment of my kids, even to the ridiculousness of giving equal amounts to them when my mom passed away, although one kid was making twice my salary.

Ex has a very different take on this; he is also, unfortunately, dx'ed with something that will kill him almost certainly in the next 5 years or so. I so appreciate everyone's chiming in on this.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

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BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:44 pm

oldfort wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:38 pm
It's not clear whether the apartment would cost $400k or $800k. Either way, you could send the grandkids to private school k-12 for less.
You see, that's why I come here! What an incredibly brilliant idea....
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

manatee2005
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by manatee2005 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:48 pm

Enroll them into Dave Ramsey financial peace university.

If that doesn’t work, offer to buy daughter a condo if she gets divorced from the deadbeat. Mortgage on 400k at these rates is very low.

That’s my view.

FarmWife
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by FarmWife » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:49 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:43 pm

Ex has a very different take on this; he is also, unfortunately, dx'ed with something that will kill him almost certainly in the next 5 years or so. I so appreciate everyone's chiming in on this.
sorry to hear this. If he's got $2.8mil and 5 years to live, your daughter may inherit something significant from him to change their situation. Now I'm even more sure you shouldn't contribute to this. He shouldn't either, but you probably can't stop him. Unfortunately if daughter/SIL don't learn anything about work/responsibility before then the windfall will only make it worse. I feel like SIL may just blow through it instead of using it wisely.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:49 pm

I don't disagree with the advice so far, but as a grandparent, I feel for the granddaughter.

Are the schools very bad in the ex's neighborhood, or in the neighborhood where the apartment is located?

Broken Man 1999
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manatee2005
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by manatee2005 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:51 pm

FarmWife wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:49 pm
BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:43 pm

Ex has a very different take on this; he is also, unfortunately, dx'ed with something that will kill him almost certainly in the next 5 years or so. I so appreciate everyone's chiming in on this.
sorry to hear this. If he's got $2.8mil and 5 years to live, your daughter may inherit something significant from him to change their situation. Now I'm even more sure you shouldn't contribute to this. He shouldn't either, but you probably can't stop him. Unfortunately if daughter/SIL don't learn anything about work/responsibility before then the windfall will only make it worse. I feel like SIL may just blow through it instead of using it wisely.
Kids won’t inherit anything because he is re-married. It will all go to the new wife.

Katietsu
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Katietsu » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:53 pm

Toons wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:26 pm
Let Them Figure It Out.
They will be better off,
The just don't know it now
:happy

The problem here is that not everyone figures it out and there is a child involved. I hope that daughter and SIL’s worst case does not impact the welfare of the child, but this can not be ruled out. On the other hand, it may just be that Ex wants to give grandchild “the best” and the alternative would still be a safe and secure home life life and school.

I do think that the proposed situation is way too messy. It has the potential to produce long ranging financial entanglements. The cost is huge both in dollar amount and as a % of net worth. It may hurt relationships between siblings as well as with parents.

Is Ex just desperate to get these people out of their house? I would be looking for a different plan.

rivendell
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by rivendell » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:55 pm

At your age and with your savings there is not enough for you to buy a rental apartment or house for people who may choose not to pay rent and have demonstrated a lack of responsible adult behavior. You have already gone above and beyond.In my experience with a similar family situation consequences of poor decisions and the school of hard knocks are good teachers. I would use "No" as my answer; it is a complete answer and I would advise you to feel no guilt. If your ex who has more resources wants to proceed then that would be up to him.
You need to preserve your assets and savings for retirement. One of the best ways to help adult children is by not becoming a burden to them as you age due to insufficient resources. Possibly Kid 2 can access social programs and benefits such as SNAP or unemployment if needed.

mptfan
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by mptfan » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:57 pm

averagedude wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:20 pm
I feel it is unfair to reward an unmotivated kid, while doing nothing for your other kids that have made good decisions.
I agree.

hayman
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by hayman » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:59 pm

My $0.02:

If it's the ex's idea and the daughter hasn't asked for it, what motivation is there for her?

It seems like they've chosen a particular life and need to see it through.

7eight9
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by 7eight9 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:44 pm
oldfort wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:38 pm
It's not clear whether the apartment would cost $400k or $800k. Either way, you could send the grandkids to private school k-12 for less.
You see, that's why I come here! What an incredibly brilliant idea....
Some schools have financial aid. It may cost little to nothing for the granddaughter to go to a very good school (if she can get in).

For example:

Rye Country Day School's extensive financial aid program is core to who we are. The school grants approximately $6.1 million in need-based financial aid. 16% of students at RCDS receive financial aid, with average grants covering more than 80% of tuition and fees.

The amount of financial aid each family receives is determined based on a third-party assessment of how much each family can reasonably be expected to contribute towards their children's education. Grants range from a partial to full (100% tuition and fees covered) depending on each family's need.


https://www.ryecountryday.org/admission ... ancial-aid
I guess it all could be much worse. | They could be warming up my hearse.

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tooluser
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by tooluser » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:01 pm

They sound like good people, just perhaps not of the same motivations and personalities as some others. It's okay to be poor. I have a friend who grew up in a large, poor family, and went on to become the CEO of a major company.

I'd help them with food or kids' clothing and school supplies, things like that, and let them figure out how to pay their own bills. You do not need to take a big financial hit to keep able-bodied people viable.

aristotelian
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by aristotelian » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:02 pm

Play the long game. Daughter will have to hit rock bottom and split with the deadbeat. At that point you can step in to help. If you condition the help on leaving the deadbeat it will look like you are pressuring her. That is why you have to play the long game and wait til she leaves of her own volition. If she never leaves, then she is happy and the problem is solved. Offering to help now is just enabling the problem.

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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Herekittykitty » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:03 pm

From a financial viewpoint you can't afford it. It ties up a significant part of your assets and deprives your security and retirement of not only reasonable access in a timely fashion to those assets but also to the growth and income those assets could have given you had you not tied them up.

In addition you should not get into a financial venture with your ex husband regardless of how cordial the relationship may be.

Also any help or inheritance you might otherwise provide for your other two children would be compromised and they would know that.

Finally it will deprive the people involved of the opportunity to learn and grow that they would otherwise have had. Don't take that opportunity from them. It will ultimately do them harm and not good.

Spend time with all your grandchildren as you can, and do not favor one over the other. The love of a grandparent alone can have a significant positive effect on grandchildren for the rest of their lives.

So: Nope. Bad idea. Don't do it. Just say "no" and stick to the "no." You can give reasons for the "no" if you want to but you do not owe anyone those reasons nor do you owe anyone any further discussion past the first "no."
I don't know anything.

anakinskywalker
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by anakinskywalker » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:11 pm

Katietsu wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:53 pm
Toons wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:26 pm
Let Them Figure It Out.
They will be better off,
The just don't know it now
:happy

The problem here is that not everyone figures it out and there is a child involved. I hope that daughter and SIL’s worst case does not impact the welfare of the child, but this can not be ruled out. On the other hand, it may just be that Ex wants to give grandchild “the best” and the alternative would still be a safe and secure home life life and school.

I do think that the proposed situation is way too messy. It has the potential to produce long ranging financial entanglements. The cost is huge both in dollar amount and as a % of net worth. It may hurt relationships between siblings as well as with parents.


Is Ex just desperate to get these people out of their house?

I would be looking for a different plan.
That's a good point.

Also given they are living with your ex, and given your ex is diagnosed with a terminal disease, the possibility of elder abuse comes to mind.

How old is your ex? Is he of sound mind and strong will?

Giving away 400k to irresponsible adults is bad enough an idea that the possibility of criminal activity (of various sorts) needs to be considered. This donation could seriously jeopardize your retirement security.

Is there any possibility that your daughter is in an abusive relationship with this SIL? Maybe she is being pressured to help extract money from her parents? Maybe she is too scared or embarrassed to say anything? Maybe she fears for her life if she were to say anything or try to leave this man?

A lot could be going on.

Anakin

tealeaves
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by tealeaves » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:18 pm

This is your chance to avoid throwing good money after bad (since you believe previous money was flushed away), so I would follow your instincts. Since your ex unfortunately has limited time he might be prone to rushing into decisions, and I would not follow his lead. I suggest waiting to assess your granddaughter's needs (what what type of student she becomes, school environment, etc.); eventually your decision regarding whether and how to best help will have fewer unknowns and become clearer. Good luck.

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mrspock
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by mrspock » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:21 pm

As my parents always told me: life is about choices, and the consequences of those choices. Yes, there's a certain deck we are dealt in life at the start, but sounds like they your kids were dealt a pretty good deck of cards (2/3 kids have done really well), so I'd say they need to learn to navigate the consequences of their choices themselves. I think the SIL needs to figure out what his strengths are -- and he will have some, we all do, and leverage those to the best of his abilities.

For example if classrooms are not his thing, perhaps there are "hands on"/learn by "doing" trades he could explore, from masonry to plumbing to carpentry. These are all respectable professions with which you can earn a very good living.... millionaires are minted from these professions if they go "all the way" and start their own contracting companies etc. I watch shows like "This Old House" and it's amazing what these folks do when they are at the top of their game, it's every bit as awe inspiring to me as what engineers or doctors do IMO.

I'd defer to those who have kids on this forum, but personally I wouldn't go in on this deal.
Last edited by mrspock on Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nate79
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Nate79 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:21 pm

Buy an apartment with an ex? That can't be serious.

c1over8
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by c1over8 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:25 pm

This is way too much money to spend on housing for someone you already don't trust to take proper care of the property. You can't afford to treat all of your children equally and this is a large enough amount of money that there is a high likelihood of causing a rift in the family even if your other child don't need or want a large gift of money from you. You definitely don't want to be a co-owner with whoever inherits Ex's share when he passes away.

I like the idea of dropping off groceries and essentials occasionally (will help ensure you grandchild has plenty to eat and good quality food). Consider buying things for your grandchild if you want to help out - books, school supplies, clothes, camp, sports/music/whatever lessons. Offer to have the grandchild spend the weekend with you every so often so you can expose the grandchild to whatever you think might be missing in the grandchild's home life.

livesoft
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by livesoft » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:28 pm

My response would be:

"Are you absolutely INSANE?"

And you can quote me, as in: "I asked some random stranger on the internet and they said, ...."
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Luckywon
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Luckywon » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:39 pm

This has my nomination for worst proposal of the month, granted it is August 1. 😁 It will be a continuing source of stress. You can't afford it. It won't make much difference to the daughter in the long run, may even backfire. It may upset your husband and other children, understandably so.

inbox788
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by inbox788 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:41 pm

oldfort wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:38 pm
It's not clear whether the apartment would cost $400k or $800k. Either way, you could send the grandkids to private school k-12 for less.
Not just local private schools, but look into appropriate boarding schools.

If there is any inheritance, given the risk of mismanaging a large lump sum, an annuity may be the better choice.

Given the issues mentioned, you may want to talk to a lawyer about guardianship and custodianship.

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FIREchief
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by FIREchief » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:43 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:07 pm
They are currently living with ex, although still renting their apartment. The reasons for that are complicated

(daughter is something of a hoader).
Just curious. Are these two related?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:45 pm

Normchad wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:22 pm
Married and ...... adults.

Do not further enable or grow codependencies.
“Help” = long term life subsidy payments.

Adversity grows character and self reliance.

Training wheels turn into permanent crutches if left on too long.

Drop off groceries once in awhile.
k🌺
This is basically a perfect post. Do this.
+1

Don't help them turn a rut into an abyss. If that is what they are going to do, let them do it on their own. Maybe they will become motivated if they run out of lifelines.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:45 pm

If you buy and apartment for someone with marginal income and zero motivation to change. . .

. . . prepare to pay all the expenses for that apartment. . . and subsidize further life issues and "emergencies". . .

. . . forever.

I have seen this too many times to count. It leads to the same codependency.
One party is "helping".
The other party is . . . "taking". . . and "taking". . and . . .
And, if you stop or "don't give enough" or "don't "help" enough", then you will be blamed and the "bad person" because "you don't care" or support "family".

(what I've heard from others in this situation)

As for the "son in law". . .there may be other longstanding issues IE: alcoholism, weed, substances, anger management, difficulty with authority and structure (doesn't like to be told what to do), etc, that are beyond the scope of this thread.

j :happy
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McDougal
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by McDougal » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:52 pm

Perhaps I missed it, but has your daughter and SIL asked you or your ex for any financial help, advice, or assistance? They have to want to improve their position for anything to really change here. Also, how does your current spouse feel about all of this? Does your ex have anything in his will for his now grown children? Lots of variables, and I agree to not be part of buying them an apartment based on what you have shared.

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BarbBrooklyn
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:57 pm

Dear all; you have of course confirmed what my gut was telling me.

I have trouble say "no" to ex and while I won't say "a random stranger in the internet told me to say no", I WILL tell him that I consulted some very smart wizards.

I hope it won't violate any rules if I delete this thread; it is all too recognizable to the participants. (ETA; took out some details).

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Last edited by BarbBrooklyn on Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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F150HD
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by F150HD » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:00 pm

Normchad wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:24 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:22 pm
Married and ...... adults.

Do not further enable or grow codependencies.
“Help” = long term life subsidy payments.

Adversity grows character and self reliance.

Training wheels turn into permanent crutches if left on too long.

Drop off groceries once in awhile.
k🌺
This is basically a perfect post. Do this.
I vote Sandtrap all day, and twice on Sunday. Good luck.

halfnine
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by halfnine » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:05 pm

I would never let my kids starve or go without medical or dental care. I might even step in a bit if an unlikely risk were to show up (i.e pandemic). But if they want to improve upon their lot in life, they are on their own. My general philosophy is to help insure them against low risk high consequence events. Short of that, they need to sort it out themselves.

One other thought. I might be reading too much into it but it seems your ex might need to be very careful and realize that the grandchild is not their child to raise.

manatee2005
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by manatee2005 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:10 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:57 pm
Dear all; you have of course confirmed what my gut was telling me.

I have trouble say "no" to ex and while I won't say "a random stranger in the internet told me to say no", I WILL tell him that I consulted some very smart wizards.

I hope it won't violate any rules if I delete this thread; it is all to recognizable to the participants.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Don’t forget, Dave Ramsey financial peace university. Or even just a total money makeover book.

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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by AerialWombat » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:14 pm

BarbBrooklyn wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:07 pm
I have already poured about 20k of my money into grad school for this daughter which was basically pissed away. To buy something would be 400k or so, so out of my 1.3M portfolio, not an insignificant chunk. Ex has about 2.8M, but I have a pension and he does not. I'm 67, he is 68.

Any thoughts?
Ever heard the phrase, “Pissing into the wind?”

That’s what this sounds like.

They’re adults. In America. If they can’t figure it out for themselves in this country, well....

retire57
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Re: Unmotivated daughter and son in law.

Post by retire57 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:17 pm

manatee2005 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:48 pm
Enroll them into Dave Ramsey financial peace university.
Perfect. You need your money in retirement.

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