Give new doctor a SSN?

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student
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by student »

toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:41 am
student wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:04 am
droliver wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:16 am Despite what a number of people commenting seem to be suggesting, SSN's are pretty critical for the revenue cycle in medical practices. Bad debt and unpaid accounts receivable (AR) is pretty rampant and getting worse as people's out of pocket expense have gone up. SSN's give a fairly reliable way to track debtors down when they ghost you. The idea up-thread that medical practices are the main source of compromise of SSN's is absurd, it's the banks, the feds, credit card companies, and credit bureaus where most breaches have come from
What I don't understand is how large can an unpaid bill be at a doctor's office. A routine doctor visit is about $100 one can insist that the copay be paid immediately (and many places do). If a bill is unpaid, the doctor office can refuse subsequent services and some of them are doing exactly this. (https://www.abc15.com/news/let-joe-know ... ical-bills) Regardless of whether medical practice is the main source of compromise of SSN, it is a source, and IMO it is prudent to eliminate as many unnecessary sources as possible.
In my surgical office, my record is $11,000. And I have had many in the 2-3k range.

Refusing subsequent service is not always feasible, as this can open up liability for a negligence lawsuit, depending on the circumstances.
I see. You have a surgical office, that makes sense. In any case, I still wouldn't provide a SSN, I will just find another provider unless this office is unique in same way.
nydoc
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by nydoc »

That’s exactly why I joined hospital employment. By law I am forced to see my postoperative patients even if they don’t pay anything. Now billing is hospital’s headache and they are certainly better then I in collecting these. I get my salary, on call pay and bonus on time. In fact my income is much better now without any associated headaches.
RetiredAL
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by RetiredAL »

ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
There is a lot of difference.

A doctor/hospital generally allows you to walk out and settle the payment later.

The mechanic is not likely to return your car to you without full payment.

The painter can file a lien against your house if you don't pay when he's complete.

By the customary practice of a doctor allowing you to leave, they are advancing you a credit loan, the same as a credit card or store credit system does.

Lastly, you've most likely given that info to dozens to hundred of places over the years - every employer, every credit application, every financial institution. Does one more change your true risk profile?

Or is this just another pile-on of ' I hate doctors and medical systems'. If you hate doctors, just don't go see one, but you may be increasing the probability that you will be living miserably and/or dying sooner.
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pianos101
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by pianos101 »

RetiredAL wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:10 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
There is a lot of difference.

A doctor/hospital generally allows you to walk out and settle the payment later.

The mechanic is not likely to return your car to you without full payment.

The painter can file a lien against your house if you don't pay when he's complete.

By the customary practice of a doctor allowing you to leave, they are advancing you a credit loan, the same as a credit card or store credit system does.

Lastly, you've most likely given that info to dozens to hundred of places over the years - every employer, every credit application, every financial institution. Does one more change your true risk profile?

Or is this just another pile-on of ' I hate doctors and medical systems'. If you hate doctors, just don't go see one, but you may be increasing the probability that you will be living miserably and/or dying sooner.
There are legal requirements to give your SSN to employers and banks. There is no legal requirement to give your SSN to a doctor. It’s only to make their life easier.

The system in this country is MESSED UP. I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. This is just perpetuating the issue.
RetiredAL
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by RetiredAL »

pianos101 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:33 pm
The system in this country is MESSED UP. I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. This is just perpetuating the issue.
I agree things are messed up.

Nitpicking the difference between 'required by law' and 'not required' is why the laws/rules are so damn convoluted. IMO, it forced us into a becoming a nation of chiselers.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I can see why a doctor's office would want the SS number, as related by toofache32.

How many people have posted asking how to renegotiate a high medical bill that they are responsible for due to having a HDHP?

Or they don't want to pay for a free "Welcome to Medicare" visit when they start adding questions and such. Medicare is spending millions probably on their "Medicare and You" publication that too few people seem to read.

Frankly if it were legal (perhaps it is), maybe doctors should run credit checks before accepting someone as a patient.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
RetiredAL
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by RetiredAL »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:33 pm I can see why a doctor's office would want the SS number, as related by toofache32.

How many people have posted asking how to renegotiate a high medical bill that they are responsible for due to having a HDHP?

Or they don't want to pay for a free "Welcome to Medicare" visit when they start adding questions and such. Medicare is spending millions probably on their "Medicare and You" publication that too few people seem to read.

Frankly if it were legal (perhaps it is), maybe doctors should run credit checks before accepting someone as a patient.

Broken Man 1999
They'd probably find find the same thing the insurance people found out about drivers. Lower Credit Scores correlated with one being a poor manager of their affairs who often skirts their responsibilities thus showing themselves as a general societal malcontent. Read that as trouble-maker to avoid.
bampf
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by bampf »

droliver wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:16 am Despite what a number of people commenting seem to be suggesting, SSN's are pretty critical for the revenue cycle in medical practices. Bad debt and unpaid accounts receivable (AR) is pretty rampant and getting worse as people's out of pocket expense have gone up. SSN's give a fairly reliable way to track debtors down when they ghost you. The idea up-thread that medical practices are the main source of compromise of SSN's is absurd, it's the banks, the feds, credit card companies, and credit bureaus where most breaches have come from
Actually if you read the study you would have understood that the main source of compromise in medical facilities is negligence. No where did I suggest that medical offices were the main source of compromise.
bampf
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by bampf »

RetiredAL wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:10 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
There is a lot of difference.

A doctor/hospital generally allows you to walk out and settle the payment later.

The mechanic is not likely to return your car to you without full payment.

The painter can file a lien against your house if you don't pay when he's complete.

By the customary practice of a doctor allowing you to leave, they are advancing you a credit loan, the same as a credit card or store credit system does.

Lastly, you've most likely given that info to dozens to hundred of places over the years - every employer, every credit application, every financial institution. Does one more change your true risk profile?

Or is this just another pile-on of ' I hate doctors and medical systems'. If you hate doctors, just don't go see one, but you may be increasing the probability that you will be living miserably and/or dying sooner.
Actually this is a pile on to "I don't give my social security number or date of birth to anyone that doesn't have a legal need for it." It has nothing to do with the medical profession necessarily. However, Door Dash doesn't ask for my ssn and drs and dentists do.
ScubaHogg
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by ScubaHogg »

RetiredAL wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:10 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
There is a lot of difference.

A doctor/hospital generally allows you to walk out and settle the payment later.

The mechanic is not likely to return your car to you without full payment.

The painter can file a lien against your house if you don't pay when he's complete.

By the customary practice of a doctor allowing you to leave, they are advancing you a credit loan, the same as a credit card or store credit system does.

Lastly, you've most likely given that info to dozens to hundred of places over the years - every employer, every credit application, every financial institution. Does one more change your true risk profile?

Or is this just another pile-on of ' I hate doctors and medical systems'. If you hate doctors, just don't go see one, but you may be increasing the probability that you will be living miserably and/or dying sooner.
Ah lawdy, don't be so dramatic. I neither hate doctors nor "medical systems", but neither do I worship them and think I must accede to every request, no matter how unreasonable, with a "thank you sir." So no, I'm going to go give out my SSN just because it'll make their life a little easier. Lots and lots of businesses have to deal with Accounts Receivable issues. This isn't limited to doctors by any conceivable stretch of the imagination. Accounting firms, law firms, trucking companies, virtually anyone who performs a service or delivers a product prior to getting paid has to deal with billing issues. The difference is most of them don't get 80% (or whatever) of the fee from a 3rd party to start.

If a doctor doesn't want to perform service for someone who doesn't want to give their SSN, that is their business. I, as a patient, am putting a tremendous amount of trust into a doctor by choosing them. If, on top of the insurance I've already provided them, they refuse to see me if I don't leave my first-born child with them (to be as dramatic), well, we probably wouldn't work well together anyway and I seriously doubt they have my best interests at heart.

Lastly, you've most likely given that info to dozens to hundred of places over the years - every employer, every credit application, every financial institution. Does one more change your true risk profile?
First off, yes, basic risk management would have you minimize the number of failure points, not just shrug your shoulders and say, "well other people have it so I guess I could paint it on my front door" and it won't matter. In America today, a person's SSN is very valuable and needs to be reasonably protected.

Second, banks, credit card companies and large employers have much, much better administrative and security procedures than your typical doctor's office. Medical offices have notoriously terrible administrative staff work with the most basic stuff routinely screwed up (see recent thread where a person keeps getting billed even though the office has admitted the bill was paid). I have zero faith that a local doctor's office, for example, has procedures to guard someone's SSN that is any more robust than "we type it in this computer program we paid for and stick the piece of paper in a filing cabinet."
“Unexpected Returns dominate the Expected Returns” - Ken French
toofache32
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by toofache32 »

ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
Your car mechanic will not return your car until you have paid. They are not giving you an unsecured loan like a medical office does.
ScubaHogg
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by ScubaHogg »

toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:26 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
Your car mechanic will not return your car until you have paid. They are not giving you an unsecured loan like a medical office does.
See my post above. Tons of businesses have to deal with Accounts Receivable issues. Virtually anyone who performs a service or delivers a product prior to getting paid. This isn't, at all, limited to doctors. The difference is most those other businesses aren't guaranteed 80% of the fee (or whatever the number is) from a 3rd party.
“Unexpected Returns dominate the Expected Returns” - Ken French
toofache32
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by toofache32 »

bampf wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:24 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:10 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
There is a lot of difference.

A doctor/hospital generally allows you to walk out and settle the payment later.

The mechanic is not likely to return your car to you without full payment.

The painter can file a lien against your house if you don't pay when he's complete.

By the customary practice of a doctor allowing you to leave, they are advancing you a credit loan, the same as a credit card or store credit system does.

Lastly, you've most likely given that info to dozens to hundred of places over the years - every employer, every credit application, every financial institution. Does one more change your true risk profile?

Or is this just another pile-on of ' I hate doctors and medical systems'. If you hate doctors, just don't go see one, but you may be increasing the probability that you will be living miserably and/or dying sooner.
Actually this is a pile on to "I don't give my social security number or date of birth to anyone that doesn't have a legal need for it." It has nothing to do with the medical profession necessarily. However, Door Dash doesn't ask for my ssn and drs and dentists do.
I didn't know Door Dash gave unsecured loans and allowed you to pay later.
toofache32
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Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by toofache32 »

ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:29 pm
toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:26 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
Your car mechanic will not return your car until you have paid. They are not giving you an unsecured loan like a medical office does.
See my post above. Tons of businesses have to deal with Accounts Receivable issues. Virtually anyone who performs a service or delivers a product prior to getting paid. This isn't, at all, limited to doctors. The difference is most those other businesses aren't guaranteed 80% of the fee (or whatever the number is) from a 3rd party.
80% guaranteed??
Broken Man 1999
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Location: West coast of Florida, inland on high ground!

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Honestly, I trust my doctors more than any other entity that I currently supply my SS number.

I have far longer relationships with my doctors I see (2 of 3 for 20 years, 1 for probably 15 years) than any of the other entities that have requested my SS number

As it turns out, I've never been asked as they simply want my insurance card, but perhaps that might be because I have never stiffed any of the three.

If asked, I would provide it.

My SS number is probably available to many, considering the numerous places where my info has been part of data breaches.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
ScubaHogg
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by ScubaHogg »

toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:39 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:29 pm
toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:26 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
Your car mechanic will not return your car until you have paid. They are not giving you an unsecured loan like a medical office does.
See my post above. Tons of businesses have to deal with Accounts Receivable issues. Virtually anyone who performs a service or delivers a product prior to getting paid. This isn't, at all, limited to doctors. The difference is most those other businesses aren't guaranteed 80% of the fee (or whatever the number is) from a 3rd party.
80% guaranteed??
I honestly have no idea. I assume so since 20% co-pays with insurance companies seems pretty "standard." At least as standard as anything in medical finance goes. I'm assuming that the office has a contract with the insurance company and that the company honors the contract (otherwise, why have the contract). Maybe it's less or more, but the point I made remains.
“Unexpected Returns dominate the Expected Returns” - Ken French
ScubaHogg
Posts: 714
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:02 pm

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by ScubaHogg »

toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:30 pm
bampf wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:24 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:10 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am
celia wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:10 am Look at it from the perspective of the doctor’s office. What if a service is not covered by Medicare? (They are supposed to tell you that upfront, and have you ackowledge that in writing.). Then the patient is responsible for the bill.

Or if the service IS covered, who will pay the 20% that Medicare doesn’t cover (ie, show you have a Medigap plan).
Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
There is a lot of difference.

A doctor/hospital generally allows you to walk out and settle the payment later.

The mechanic is not likely to return your car to you without full payment.

The painter can file a lien against your house if you don't pay when he's complete.

By the customary practice of a doctor allowing you to leave, they are advancing you a credit loan, the same as a credit card or store credit system does.

Lastly, you've most likely given that info to dozens to hundred of places over the years - every employer, every credit application, every financial institution. Does one more change your true risk profile?

Or is this just another pile-on of ' I hate doctors and medical systems'. If you hate doctors, just don't go see one, but you may be increasing the probability that you will be living miserably and/or dying sooner.
Actually this is a pile on to "I don't give my social security number or date of birth to anyone that doesn't have a legal need for it." It has nothing to do with the medical profession necessarily. However, Door Dash doesn't ask for my ssn and drs and dentists do.
I didn't know Door Dash gave unsecured loans and allowed you to pay later.
No they don't, but they will tell you the price in advance. :sharebeer
“Unexpected Returns dominate the Expected Returns” - Ken French
toofache32
Posts: 2122
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by toofache32 »

ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:05 pm
toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:30 pm
bampf wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:24 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:10 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am

Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
There is a lot of difference.

A doctor/hospital generally allows you to walk out and settle the payment later.

The mechanic is not likely to return your car to you without full payment.

The painter can file a lien against your house if you don't pay when he's complete.

By the customary practice of a doctor allowing you to leave, they are advancing you a credit loan, the same as a credit card or store credit system does.

Lastly, you've most likely given that info to dozens to hundred of places over the years - every employer, every credit application, every financial institution. Does one more change your true risk profile?

Or is this just another pile-on of ' I hate doctors and medical systems'. If you hate doctors, just don't go see one, but you may be increasing the probability that you will be living miserably and/or dying sooner.
Actually this is a pile on to "I don't give my social security number or date of birth to anyone that doesn't have a legal need for it." It has nothing to do with the medical profession necessarily. However, Door Dash doesn't ask for my ssn and drs and dentists do.
I didn't know Door Dash gave unsecured loans and allowed you to pay later.
No they don't, but they will tell you the price in advance. :sharebeer
The insurance company determines the fees. I too wish they would tell us in advance. People are often surprised to know that the doctor's office does not know what insurance will pay for most treatment. Fee schedules are a closely guarded secret of insurance companies. This opaqueness is one of the mechanisms they use to stay in control.
toofache32
Posts: 2122
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by toofache32 »

ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:03 pm
toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:39 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:29 pm
toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:26 pm
ScubaHogg wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:23 am

Would you give your SSN to your car mechanic? Or house painter? No. There’s no difference.

There’s no need to give them your SSN. Don’t do it.
Your car mechanic will not return your car until you have paid. They are not giving you an unsecured loan like a medical office does.
See my post above. Tons of businesses have to deal with Accounts Receivable issues. Virtually anyone who performs a service or delivers a product prior to getting paid. This isn't, at all, limited to doctors. The difference is most those other businesses aren't guaranteed 80% of the fee (or whatever the number is) from a 3rd party.
80% guaranteed??
I honestly have no idea. I assume so since 20% co-pays with insurance companies seems pretty "standard." At least as standard as anything in medical finance goes. I'm assuming that the office has a contract with the insurance company and that the company honors the contract (otherwise, why have the contract). Maybe it's less or more, but the point I made remains.
I apologize I was unclear, my question is the "guaranteed" aspect, not the percentage. Insurance companies are always coming up with new and extraordinary tricks and "gotchas" to avoid paying. About 15% of all claims are denied for no identifiable reason. The $11,000 case I mentioned above involved pre-authorization which was approved. Then they still didn't pay. At the bottom of every pre-authorization is the fine print "pre-authorization of benefits is not a guarantee of payment" which means they reserve the right to change their minds later. The details don't really matter though because the culture is to pay your doctor last. Pay your cell phone, netflix, car payment first, pay the doctor and his staff last.

But those who object are free to go elsewhere. Vote with your feet, and all that stuff.
RetiredAL
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Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:09 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by RetiredAL »

toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:26 pm The details don't really matter though because the culture is to pay your doctor last. Pay your cell phone, netflix, car payment first, pay the doctor and his staff last.

But those who object are free to go elsewhere. Vote with your feet, and all that stuff.
+1

BTW toofache32, I'm not a medical person. But I do believe in doing the moralist correct things in life. When you have a service done, you pay for it.
RetiredAL
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Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:09 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by RetiredAL »

In the big picture...... your ID most likely has already compromised someplace. Have you been directly effected by this, other than your conjured up "might" worries?

There is a huge empty gulf between the "Might/Could Happen" vs what's really been happening in the world.
Trader Joe
Posts: 1986
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:38 pm

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Trader Joe »

InMyDreams wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:11 pm My father is transitioning to a new doctor. He is on Medicare. The new office asked for his Medicare Beneficiary Identifier (i.e., new medicare number), but said they also needed his SSN for billing.

Really? Everything I've read says that Medicare billing is now based on MBI as the patient identifier.

AARP advises not sharing SSN unnecessarily.

Does Medicare require SSN for billing? Should I give his SSN to the new office?
I would not hesitate to provide my SSN to my doctor or dentist. Not at all.
eagleeyes
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:49 pm

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by eagleeyes »

I think the solution is easy.

If your doc requires an SSN and through office malfeasance Or negligence your digits are stolen...file a lawsuit and damages.

If they want to take charge of your info, let them. If they can’t protect, call your attorney

Otherwise find a diff doc.
ingenue
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:56 am

Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by ingenue »

toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:26 pm Your car mechanic will not return your car until you have paid. They are not giving you an unsecured loan like a medical office does.
Many years ago I could not afford to pay for a car repair up front, and despite a no checks/no credit extended policy, the mom & pop mechanic shop let me take my car home on a basic promissory note, which was a little carbon-paper form about the size of a business check. I couldn't pay it off in the two weeks--I was young and pretty broke. But I called and told them when they could expect my payments toward the bill, and I paid it off over several weeks.

That car was junky and needed repairs often over the next two years. After that first repair, the shop's office manager (literally the mechanic's mom) would let me pick up my car on an arrangement where I only paid the parts cost upon pickup. I always let her know what I'd be able to pay toward the labor, and when. She never asked me for another promissory note, she accepted my checks, and she always got my payment in full--no collections necessary.
RetiredAL
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by RetiredAL »

ingenue wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:00 pm
toofache32 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:26 pm Your car mechanic will not return your car until you have paid. They are not giving you an unsecured loan like a medical office does.
Many years ago I could not afford to pay for a car repair up front, and despite a no checks/no credit extended policy, the mom & pop mechanic shop let me take my car home on a basic promissory note, which was a little carbon-paper form about the size of a business check. I couldn't pay it off in the two weeks--I was young and pretty broke. But I called and told them when they could expect my payments toward the bill, and I paid it off over several weeks.

That car was junky and needed repairs often over the next two years. After that first repair, the shop's office manager (literally the mechanic's mom) would let me pick up my car on an arrangement where I only paid the parts cost upon pickup. I always let her know what I'd be able to pay toward the labor, and when. She never asked me for another promissory note, she accepted my checks, and she always got my payment in full--no collections necessary.
Now if we had more people like you and shop's Mom, this would be a better country. I'm sure she saw something in you. Sounds like that was back in a time and in a local culture where a man's word meant something.

Today, you will more than likely find that computers don't have a heart to deal out any compassion.
criticalmass
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by criticalmass »

123 wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:17 pm If you are trusting the doctor with your life (which you probably are) it probably isn't an issue to give the doctor the SSN.
I trust the doctor with my life. I don't trust the doctor's IT systems, or billing systems, or printed/electronic medical records, or the contractors that supply those systems, or the subcontractors that support those contractors and their future successor companies and future business practices, with my SSN. Nor do they need to have it. No need to know, no SSN.
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InMyDreams
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by InMyDreams »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:33 pm maybe doctors should run credit checks before accepting someone as a patient.
Under somewhat different circumstances, I've heard this referred to as a "wallet biopsy"

BTW, my issue is settled (mentioned in a previous post).

Thank you, all!
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

InMyDreams wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:15 am
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:33 pm maybe doctors should run credit checks before accepting someone as a patient.
Under somewhat different circumstances, I've heard this referred to as a "wallet biopsy"

BTW, my issue is settled (mentioned in a previous post).

Thank you, all!
Why on earth didn't you provide that info when you gave them his new format Medicare
number?

If they were unaware he had a supplement plan, perhaps they wanted to have his SSN in case he turned out to be a deadbeat. No offense intended towards you or your dad.

Does the new format Medicare number give any clue that one has a supplement plan? I can't see how it could as people can change having a supplement, not having one....

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go. " -Mark Twain
Mr. Rumples
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

There are some medical providers who don't take medicare. But many do. They can verify that coverage and the supplemental coverage before the appointment. Since going on medicare, the new medical providers I see, want those numbers before the visit to verify coverage. I give it to them over the phone. With my physician, he once ordered a test not covered. They absorbed the cost. No one has asked for my social security number since going on medicare.
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Carguy85 »

Toofache32, as you have likely noticed people that pitch fits up front likely are doing you a favor regarding how you would like to proceed future treatment... they have for me. Something I learned back in dental school was collecting half of pts portion on lab cases up front BEFORE cases go off to lab. Some cases can be upwards of $4k+ The only times I have been burned this hasn’t happened for whatever reason. No one has ever seemed to have a problem with this and I have never been stiffed by someone that has already paid half. As you know about all we can do is give a best guess what they might/should cover and put expectations right out front and center. I don’t miss being an owner!
Last edited by Carguy85 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nowizard
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Nowizard »

The issue is related to billing, as mentioned. As one who billed insurance for services, there are several approaches. There are seminars on billing/collection that are extremely anal, and I attended one but left at break due to the extremity. For example, "Never return money if a patient overpays until requested." On the other hand, there are those who don't or can't pay, and that issue is of greater concern in a private office than with hospital billing where hospitals gain credence for their "charity services." Asking today may be a carryover and may vary depending on different offices. It is your choice to give the SSN, and it is their choice to offer or not offer their services. I, for example, would not treat anyone who gave a PO box as their address due to billing issues unless they made full payment at the time of service. This occurred only once in 25+ years.

Tim
toofache32
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by toofache32 »

Carguy85 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:35 am Toofache32, as you have likely noticed people that pitch fits up front likely are doing you a favor regarding how you would like to proceed future treatment... they have for me. Something I learned back in dental school was collecting half of pts portion on lab cases up front BEFORE cases go off to lab. Some cases can be upwards of $4k+ The only times I have been burned this hasn’t happened for whatever reason. No one has ever seemed to have a problem with this and I have never been stiffed by someone that has already paid half. As you know about all we can do is give a best guess what they might/should cover and put expectations right out front and center. I don’t miss being an owner!
Agreed. I am happy when those patients show their colors early before I have to develop a doctor-patient relationship with them. I have dodged several bullets that way. Our office policy changed about 8 years ago to require payment in full of the patient's portion on the day of surgery. I learned that the only people who balked at it were those who never intended to pay from the beginning.
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by criticalmass »

InMyDreams wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:33 pm
AAA wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:29 pm an input for Soc. Sec. number which didn't make sense as we were paying cash. He said it was a requirement of the Dept. of Motor Vehicles.
The last time I bought a car, the sales (and finance rep) said that SSN was required by Patriot Act. Fortunately, this had been done to a friend of mine and I had googled it.

I raised my voice and said, "the internet says that if you say the patriot act requires my SSN to buy a car, I should ask you to show me that part of the Act"

The sales guy backed off, and the couple at a nearby table looked quite interested.
There may have been some truth to the salesman, but the SSN is technically not required for compliance. Last time I bought a car, I paid check. They still wanted to do a credit check. I said no. I wrote CREDIT REPORT OR INQUIRY IS NOT AUTHORIZED PER FCRA or similar all over the paperwork. Fine. Then at the last moment, they said they needed to do an OFAC check and needed my SSN. An OFAC check is legitimate. I again declined to provide the SSN. They did the OFAC check. It took a little longer to search by name, since names are less unique than SSNs. The result was.....I am not a terrorist. I could proceed to purchase. They did not attempt to run my credit. Then at the very end, they said the state needed my SSN to register the car....
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InMyDreams
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by InMyDreams »

criticalmass wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:11 pmThen at the very end, they said the state needed my SSN to register the car....
so what did you do???
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Ren »

I used to work in a large hospital system. Our HIPAA Compliance Officer always told us to never give doctors our SSN's. She made it very clear, it is not required for billing at all.
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by LadyGeek »

Discussions of dishonest behavior or bypassing the law is totally unacceptable. I removed a post suggesting to provide a false social security number.
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Re: Give new doctor a SSN?

Post by Alan S. »

A couple years ago my wife declined to provide her SSN to an MD. Didn't matter, as a few months later her SSN appeared on some print out from that MD office. So they have ways of securing your SSN whether you provide it or not.
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