Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
mptfan
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by mptfan »

willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:35 am Finances among family members can get very complicated, and there often aren't any good solutions. But a blanket admonition to simply not get involved can be naive.
Recommendations to get involved may be similarly naive.
02nz
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by 02nz »

mptfan wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:41 am
willthrill81 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:35 am Finances among family members can get very complicated, and there often aren't any good solutions. But a blanket admonition to simply not get involved can be naive.
Recommendations to get involved may be similarly naive.
We can only answer financial questions. We should not make recommendations to get involved or not get involved. There are family, personal, and even cultural dynamics specific to each case, of which we cannot be fully aware and are not in a position to weigh. The OP has to exercise discretion and judgment.
mptfan
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by mptfan »

02nz wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:54 am We can only answer financial questions.
If you go back and read the initial post, you will note that the OP did not ask a financial question. Indeed he or she did not ask any questions.
02nz
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by 02nz »

mptfan wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:57 am
02nz wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:54 am We can only answer financial questions.
If you go back and read the initial post, you will note that the OP did not ask a financial question. Indeed he or she did not ask any questions.
And so we offered financial advice about what OP's mother could do differently. Up to OP's mother to decide whether to take that advice, and up to OP how much effort to make, and how, to try to get Mom to take that advice.
mptfan
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by mptfan »

02nz wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:14 pm And so we offered financial advice about what OP's mother could do differently. Up to OP's mother to decide whether to take that advice, and up to OP how much effort to make, and how, to try to get Mom to take that advice.
The OP's mother did not ask us for financial advice, so I don't think it's appropriate for us to offer financial advice to her. My financial advice is directed to the OP...do not get involved.
JackoC
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by JackoC »

FIREchief wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:31 pm
rincleo wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:12 pm
snailderby wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:41 pm That mortgage payment seems pretty high. What's the current interest rate on that loan?
2.62%
She must be paying a LOT in property taxes.
Prop tax would be why it would never agree with a standard excel 'PMT' function answer, true. But people ballparking it might assume full term even maybe assume 30 yrs. But the mortgage might also have relatively few years left, IOW was considerably larger at one time, maybe the $400k estimated value is also less than it once was or downpayment was really small (IOW mortgage was bigger than .8*400 originally).

Anyway if the payment is $2,800k/mo then that's what it is. As for lots of the other back and forth about apartments, without a location there's no way to debate what somebody should be able to pay in rent. That relationship varies. Right where I am there are no houses (as opposed to condo's) <$1mil, but the bottom end of decent (small) apartments goes down to $1,800/mo, in same neighborhood basically, highly safe crime-wise, and that's right next to one of *the* 'VHCOL' hotspots in the country, Manhattan. But that's one of a huge number of locales, meaningless to discuss in a vacuum whether somebody's impression that $1,800 apt means 'bad neighborhood' is realistic. But doesn't sound very realistic to me, especially if you can't afford $2.8k mortgage which this person cannot even by own admission.

As to what adult kids suggest to parents in financial trouble or vice versa that's up to them. I wouldn't say it's 'out of line' or in line. You have an implied obligation if the person at other end of such a relationship runs themselves completely off the rails financially. And can be an actual legal obligation in some cases, in some states, for adult kids. So it's really not strictly 'none of your business'.
khram
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by khram »

I would recommend sitting her down and giving her the best info from this thread. Don't need to send her the full link, just the cliff's notes. Sometimes less is more.

I would take into account whatever OP's financial situation is. Maybe the goal should be to minimize (financial and relationship) pain 5 or so years from now if it turns out she's broke and OP has to decide how to take her in and support her financially. That would be embarrassing for her and put a hole in OP's life.

My mother died under a mountain of debt, pretty young. Had she lived longer, she would have been taken in by one of my siblings (I live very far away), and I probably would have been sending some money for food and basic things, and she'd probably declare bankruptcy to get rid of her debt. None of this would have been pretty. Watching one of my siblings take her in and cut a hole in their own family life for 10-20 years would just be painful. That said, she hadn't worked in decades, which teaches you to value money at least somewhat. The OP's mother is not in as bad of a situation. Better to make sure that doesn't happen though.
mptfan
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by mptfan »

JackoC wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:33 pmYou have an implied obligation if the person at other end of such a relationship runs themselves completely off the rails financially. And can be an actual legal obligation in some cases, in some states, for adult kids.
Could you provide a citation or a link for this? I was not aware that adult kids had an actual legal obligation to provide for their parents.
JackoC
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by JackoC »

mptfan wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:41 pm
JackoC wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:33 pmYou have an implied obligation if the person at other end of such a relationship runs themselves completely off the rails financially. And can be an actual legal obligation in some cases, in some states, for adult kids.
Could you provide a citation or a link for this? I was not aware that adult kids had an actual legal obligation to provide for their parents.
Filial responsibility laws. Many US states have them. Although the extent differs and they aren't enforced everywhere. Which is why 'some cases, some states'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_re ... ility_laws
snailderby
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by snailderby »

JackoC wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:46 pm
mptfan wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:41 pm
JackoC wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:33 pmYou have an implied obligation if the person at other end of such a relationship runs themselves completely off the rails financially. And can be an actual legal obligation in some cases, in some states, for adult kids.
Could you provide a citation or a link for this? I was not aware that adult kids had an actual legal obligation to provide for their parents.
Filial responsibility laws. Many US states have them. Although the extent differs and they aren't enforced everywhere. Which is why 'some cases, some states'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_re ... ility_laws
Learned something new today. Thanks, JackoC. This article also has links to specific state statutes: https://www.medicalalertadvice.com/arti ... ng-parent/.
02nz
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by 02nz »

mptfan wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:29 pm
02nz wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:14 pm And so we offered financial advice about what OP's mother could do differently. Up to OP's mother to decide whether to take that advice, and up to OP how much effort to make, and how, to try to get Mom to take that advice.
The OP's mother did not ask us for financial advice, so I don't think it's appropriate for us to offer financial advice to her. My financial advice is directed to the OP...do not get involved.
And I suppose your advice would be the same when OP's mother can no longer make ends meet? "Just don't get involved." So easy!
khram
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by khram »

snailderby wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:49 pm
JackoC wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:46 pm
mptfan wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:41 pm
JackoC wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:33 pmYou have an implied obligation if the person at other end of such a relationship runs themselves completely off the rails financially. And can be an actual legal obligation in some cases, in some states, for adult kids.
Could you provide a citation or a link for this? I was not aware that adult kids had an actual legal obligation to provide for their parents.
Filial responsibility laws. Many US states have them. Although the extent differs and they aren't enforced everywhere. Which is why 'some cases, some states'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_re ... ility_laws
Learned something new today. Thanks, JackoC. This article also has links to specific state statutes: https://www.medicalalertadvice.com/arti ... ng-parent/.
Is it the state you live in, or the state your poor/dead parent lives/lived in?
mptfan
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by mptfan »

JackoC wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:46 pm Filial responsibility laws. Many US states have them. Although the extent differs and they aren't enforced everywhere. Which is why 'some cases, some states'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_re ... ility_laws
Interesting. It seems that 30 states have such laws and they vary, and even in those states..."eleven out of the thirty states have never enforced their filial responsibility laws and most rarely put them into place."
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willthrill81
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by willthrill81 »

mptfan wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:54 pm
JackoC wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:46 pm Filial responsibility laws. Many US states have them. Although the extent differs and they aren't enforced everywhere. Which is why 'some cases, some states'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filial_re ... ility_laws
Interesting. It seems that 30 states have such laws and they vary, and even in those states..."eleven out of the thirty states have never enforced their filial responsibility laws and most rarely put them into place."
Beyond the law, few will sit back and watch their adult parents become utterly destitute. Maybe you can, but most cannot or will not.
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Church Lady
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by Church Lady »

I've seen lots of good advice here, except for maybe the advice to buy a five year
old used car.

She may be leasing a car because she fears maintenance costs. And if you buy
a used car, you buy someone else's problem.

I used this calculator: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/car ... olla-13504

to compute the payment on a Toyota Corolla, a frugal, reliable car. (It doesn't have to be a Corolla, but everyone
knows what a Corolla is. Something in the Corolla ball park is what I am suggesting). Clearly, I
had to guess at some of the values, but I got a payment of 378/mo on a 60 month
loan with no down payment. After 5 years, she'd own the car and it would probably
still be in pretty good shape. Or she could trade it in and start over.

I will also point out that if she's planning to leave the state in 3 years, it doesn't make sense to plan for a roommate in retirement insofar as she doesn't know yet her housing situation. I wouldn't buy 'too much' house with a plan to have roommates. I'd just downsize so I can have my dwelling to myself. If she's never taken in boarders before, the new lifestyle may not be to her liking.

Tough situation, OP. Good luck!
He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.
TimeTheMarket
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by TimeTheMarket »

Her mortgage payment is unconscionable at her income, age, net worth.

House must go. Nothing else makes any difference u til that happens. She cannot even afford *any* house. She needs to rent, so that a $10k repair to her home doesn’t send her into a debt spiral.

She also cannot retire when she wants to.

And oh gosh, I see she has a car lease. She needs an intervention. Can she make the tough choices? No more car notes, house gone

Also her food bill is absurd.

She will take no advice. What’s going to happen is you will cover the difference indefinitely along with other extended family.
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willthrill81
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by willthrill81 »

Church Lady wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:14 pmShe may be leasing a car because she fears maintenance costs. And if you buy a used car, you buy someone else's problem.
That's false. Your statement implies that the only reason people sell their car is if they are having problems with it.

We have bought several used cars and had minimal issues with most of them.
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Scooter57
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by Scooter57 »

I am really finding it hard to see where a decent social security check and a $900/mo pension spells financial devastation. Even more of a concern is the horror that comes through in many of these messages at the possibility of having to send mom a couple hundred bucks a month. How much did mom give up financially to feed, clothe, house and educate you for 18 years or more, to say nothing of lost career opportunities due to her putting time into being a parent?

When she retires she has the option of selling the home and moving, but unless she is demented that choice, which would be painful, is up to her. And in a situation like this, if she detects the slightest bit of "I want you to give up stuff that really matters to you because I don't want to have to help you out in your old age," she would be quite right to shut the door on any further conversation.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by JoeRetire »

Scooter57 wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:43 pm I am really finding it hard to see where a decent social security check and a $900/mo pension spells financial devastation.
"Her expenses are ~$4,700/mo"
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Tommy
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by Tommy »

Just be prepared to pay for her expenses what won't be covered by her income - some medical, dental bills, travel, etc. This is what I'm doing for my mother.
Seriously, I don't understand questions "what to do with parents finances"? It is your parents, you have to take care for them.
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willthrill81
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Re: Mom Has $2K Net Worth at 62 - Want to Help

Post by willthrill81 »

Tommy wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:20 pm Just be prepared to pay for her expenses what won't be covered by her income - some medical, dental bills, travel, etc. This is what I'm doing for my mother.
Seriously, I don't understand questions "what to do with parents finances"? It is your parents, you have to take care for them.
While I understand and appreciate your sentiment of feeling an obligation to help care for your parents, I think that most of us can agree that there are limits to how much of their consumption should be funded by their adult children, especially on discretionary things. For instance, while I want my retired parents to live comfortably, I would not feel compelled to help pay for them to lease a pricey vehicle if they had an irrational fear of any other vehicle breaking down.

I get the feeling that the OP is just trying to help his/her mom learn to live within her ample means. On her current income, she can make ends meet. On the income that she's likely to have in retirement, she probably can't without reducing her spending. It would probably be less painful for her to slowly reduce her spending now rather than be suddenly forced into it when she retires. It would be better for the mom and the OP.
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