New Job Offer

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Topic Author
silverlitegs
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:32 pm

New Job Offer

Post by silverlitegs » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm

Hello Boggleheads.

I was recently given a job offer that will raise my salary and peaks my interest. There are three sticking points that concern me that I would like to get feedback on.

1. Their average salary increases are around 3%. Though this year they have not given the increase yet due to coronavirus.

2. I would like to get four weeks vacation. They supposedly offer four week but the wording seems questionable. Three weeks are given as vacation. You are then given 3 days of floating holiday and two personal days. These five days you are unable to carry over and are classified as stated. Additionally there is an unlimited sick time policy (which I have never had, rarely take and hear different stories about). My sticking point is I would like to have four weeks of regular vacation time that carry over and the additional five days stated. I feel I have earned the four weeks of straight vacation. With this new employer, you are not eligible for more vacation time until after nine years of service. When asked about the additional vacation time, they DONT believe its possible. Which leads me to believe they havent asked their superior.

3. Lastly, a private equity firm in the last few months recently purchase this large company.

simas
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by simas » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:31 pm

silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm
Hello Boggleheads.

I was recently given a job offer that will raise my salary and peaks my interest. There are three sticking points that concern me that I would like to get feedback on.

1. Their average salary increases are around 3%. Though this year they have not given the increase yet due to coronavirus.

2. I would like to get four weeks vacation. They supposedly offer four week but the wording seems questionable. Three weeks are given as vacation. You are then given 3 days of floating holiday and two personal days. These five days you are unable to carry over and are classified as stated. Additionally there is an unlimited sick time policy (which I have never had, rarely take and hear different stories about). My sticking point is I would like to have four weeks of regular vacation time that carry over and the additional five days stated. I feel I have earned the four weeks of straight vacation. With this new employer, you are not eligible for more vacation time until after nine years of service. When asked about the additional vacation time, they DONT believe its possible. Which leads me to believe they havent asked their superior.

3. Lastly, a private equity firm in the last few months recently purchase this large company.

1. likely irrelevant. Are you planning to stay there until retirement and rely on cost of leaving increases to be your career growth? I don't think so.

2. ask for it in conversation with hiring manager (they can potentially do a memo for you which changes the policy on your hire and be attached to your file), or increase your base pay for XK and have an agreement with hiring manager that from time to time you may take unpaid leave. Skip this "I feel I have earned the four weeks of straight vacation" , what does that supposed to mean to your new employee? it just sounds arrogant. focus on base/PTO/total comp ,etc.

3. similarly impossible to say whether it does or does not mean anything for the future.

Topic Author
silverlitegs
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by silverlitegs » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:45 pm

Im younger, I would like to find a great company that develops me more than I have in the past. I am in SR roles and had longer employment as a Manager for the department. Not sure if this is the company I will retire from

The conversation is now in the HR realm. How would I pull back in the Hiring Manager ( from department Im working in) ?

core4portfolio
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by core4portfolio » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:47 pm

i can point on Unlimited sick leaves. For me they worked well
I took 1 day Sick leave per month. As long as job is done, no one bothered me
Allocation : 80/20 (80% TSM, 20% TBM) | Need to learn fishing sooner

VoiceOfReason
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by VoiceOfReason » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:51 pm

silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm
Hello Boggleheads.

I was recently given a job offer that will raise my salary and peaks my interest. There are three sticking points that concern me that I would like to get feedback on.

1. Their average salary increases are around 3%. Though this year they have not given the increase yet due to coronavirus.

2. I would like to get four weeks vacation. They supposedly offer four week but the wording seems questionable. Three weeks are given as vacation. You are then given 3 days of floating holiday and two personal days. These five days you are unable to carry over and are classified as stated. Additionally there is an unlimited sick time policy (which I have never had, rarely take and hear different stories about). My sticking point is I would like to have four weeks of regular vacation time that carry over and the additional five days stated. I feel I have earned the four weeks of straight vacation. With this new employer, you are not eligible for more vacation time until after nine years of service. When asked about the additional vacation time, they DONT believe its possible. Which leads me to believe they havent asked their superior.

3. Lastly, a private equity firm in the last few months recently purchase this large company.
What is your area of work?

Personally, I would never let vacation time dictate if I take a job or not. There are so many other factors that are way more important. Is it setting you up for the next move, will you be happy in the role, the company culture, compensation, etc.

Don’t let perfect get in the way of good.

Topic Author
silverlitegs
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by silverlitegs » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:58 pm

VoiceOfReason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:51 pm
silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm
Hello Boggleheads.

I was recently given a job offer that will raise my salary and peaks my interest. There are three sticking points that concern me that I would like to get feedback on.

1. Their average salary increases are around 3%. Though this year they have not given the increase yet due to coronavirus.

2. I would like to get four weeks vacation. They supposedly offer four week but the wording seems questionable. Three weeks are given as vacation. You are then given 3 days of floating holiday and two personal days. These five days you are unable to carry over and are classified as stated. Additionally there is an unlimited sick time policy (which I have never had, rarely take and hear different stories about). My sticking point is I would like to have four weeks of regular vacation time that carry over and the additional five days stated. I feel I have earned the four weeks of straight vacation. With this new employer, you are not eligible for more vacation time until after nine years of service. When asked about the additional vacation time, they DONT believe its possible. Which leads me to believe they havent asked their superior.

3. Lastly, a private equity firm in the last few months recently purchase this large company.
What is your area of work?

Personally, I would never let vacation time dictate if I take a job or not. There are so many other factors that are way more important. Is it setting you up for the next move, will you be happy in the role, the company culture, compensation, etc.

Don’t let perfect get in the way of good.
I’m in the tech field

I hoestly have the slightest on the company culture. People I talked to were straight forward and honest. Though I feel you don’t get to know them until after working with them for some time

simas
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by simas » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:59 pm

silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:45 pm
1) Im younger, I would like to find a great company that develops me more than I have in the past. I am in SR roles and had longer employment as a Manager for the department. Not sure if this is the company I will retire from

2) The conversation is now in the HR realm. How would I pull back in the Hiring Manager ( from department Im working in) ?
1. company that develops you?? what does this mean? you take a position because it is people you want to work with/for and for the pay you find good (or at least acceptable). It is a business transaction


2. 'Dear X , the hiring manager. Thank you again for opportunity to speak with you and your team about .. .. ... .. . I greatly enjoyed speaking with you on ... .. ... , and hope to be able to join your team and the company soon. I am currently leaning from HR contract Y who is walking me through things like benefits, policies, etc and had an outstanding question on PTO time. Please let me know if you think you would have 15 min to briefly chat so I can update you where we are and hear your feedback on items that I think you should hear as a hiring manager. Thank you signed Z'

depends on your relationship with the hiring manager (if any), this could be formal or informal - all of you want is 15 minutes of her/his time on the phone to pitch your case for PTO (single outstanding item blocking _us_) . You do have hiring manager contact information (name ,position ,email , phone), do you?

IRT
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by IRT » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:28 pm

Congrats on the offer-- glad to hear that there's movement out there.

Just adding from experience that the stated time off policy (Vacation that rolls over + Personal Days and Floating Holidays that do not) is standard and better than average. Not better than all, just better than average. My experience from the field is that some areas are easier to negotiate than others and those that are considered 'HR policy', like sick days and vacation days, are often more difficult to successfully argue. You'll need to provide a clear justification that links your value to the number of vacation days that you need-- it's easier to do that with salary, STI, and LTI than it is vacation days.

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Watty
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by Watty » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:07 pm

silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm
2. I would like to get four weeks vacation. They supposedly offer four week but the wording seems questionable. Three weeks are given as vacation. You are then given 3 days of floating holiday and two personal days. These five days you are unable to carry over and are classified as stated. Additionally there is an unlimited sick time policy (which I have never had, rarely take and hear different stories about). My sticking point is I would like to have four weeks of regular vacation time that carry over and the additional five days stated. I feel I have earned the four weeks of straight vacation. With this new employer, you are not eligible for more vacation time until after nine years of service. When asked about the additional vacation time, they DONT believe its possible. Which leads me to believe they havent asked their superior.
It sounds like you want five weeks off total, which is a lot especially if you do not already have that at your current job.

Being able to rollover the floating holidays and personal days is pretty much a non-issue unless you take less than 5 days off during a year, you just take those off first.

The unlimited sick time could be very valuable during the middle of a pandemic.
silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm
3. Lastly, a private equity firm in the last few months recently purchase this large company.
One thing you may run into is that they may be trying to make the accounting numbers look as good as possible to get the company ready to go public or because of loan requirements.

I once worked for a company like that which was getting ready to go public. They had as strict "use it or lose it" rule for paid time off(PTO) which was a generic combination of vacation and sick pay that they switched to instead of traditional vacation and sick time. Anything you did not use by December 31st was lost. I don't understand the details of the accounting but apparently they had to carry the accrued vacation that people rolled over on their books as a liability and that made the numbers look worse for being able to take the company public.

Topic Author
silverlitegs
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: New Job Offer

Post by silverlitegs » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:12 pm

simas wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:59 pm
silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:45 pm
1) Im younger, I would like to find a great company that develops me more than I have in the past. I am in SR roles and had longer employment as a Manager for the department. Not sure if this is the company I will retire from

2) The conversation is now in the HR realm. How would I pull back in the Hiring Manager ( from department Im working in) ?
1. company that develops you?? what does this mean? you take a position because it is people you want to work with/for and for the pay you find good (or at least acceptable). It is a business transaction


2. 'Dear X , the hiring manager. Thank you again for opportunity to speak with you and your team about .. .. ... .. . I greatly enjoyed speaking with you on ... .. ... , and hope to be able to join your team and the company soon. I am currently leaning from HR contract Y who is walking me through things like benefits, policies, etc and had an outstanding question on PTO time. Please let me know if you think you would have 15 min to briefly chat so I can update you where we are and hear your feedback on items that I think you should hear as a hiring manager. Thank you signed Z'

depends on your relationship with the hiring manager (if any), this could be formal or informal - all of you want is 15 minutes of her/his time on the phone to pitch your case for PTO (single outstanding item blocking _us_) . You do have hiring manager contact information (name ,position ,email , phone), do you?
I talked to the few coworkers for no longer than an hour on several skype calls (some local, some remote ) . I personally am not able to gauge what someone is like after an hour. Work relationships I sometimes compare to dating. It takes some time to foster what people are like. On the other hand I agree its a business transaction they offer x and I agree to perform w,x,y,z.

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8foot7
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by 8foot7 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:12 pm

In megacorps the hiring manager often cannot control vacation policy even if they were inclined to grant you more than standard. Not always the case but often enough.

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Watty
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by Watty » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:15 pm

IRT wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:28 pm
My experience from the field is that some areas are easier to negotiate than others and those that are considered 'HR policy', like sick days and vacation days, are often more difficult to successfully argue.
Giving you additional time off would also be very visible to other employees and they are likely to also ask for more time off just because you get it. It would be hard to say no to that.

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8foot7
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by 8foot7 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:24 pm

Watty wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:15 pm
IRT wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:28 pm
My experience from the field is that some areas are easier to negotiate than others and those that are considered 'HR policy', like sick days and vacation days, are often more difficult to successfully argue.
Giving you additional time off would also be very visible to other employees and they are likely to also ask for more time off just because you get it. It would be hard to say no to that.
Great point. On our larger team at my current role, one person was granted additional vacation time at offer time. It became readily apparent when in her first year she was gone much more than others (who would normally have had to work four years for us to have the same entitlement). It caused discontent, particularly because as her time with us wore on it was clear she had simply negotiated well and her work product did not justify the perk. Other higher-performing team members resented the fact she was granted an exception.

She was laid off earlier this year.

Topic Author
silverlitegs
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by silverlitegs » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:02 pm

8foot7 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:24 pm
Watty wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:15 pm
IRT wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:28 pm
My experience from the field is that some areas are easier to negotiate than others and those that are considered 'HR policy', like sick days and vacation days, are often more difficult to successfully argue.
Giving you additional time off would also be very visible to other employees and they are likely to also ask for more time off just because you get it. It would be hard to say no to that.
Great point. On our larger team at my current role, one person was granted additional vacation time at offer time. It became readily apparent when in her first year she was gone much more than others (who would normally have had to work four years for us to have the same entitlement). It caused discontent, particularly because as her time with us wore on it was clear she had simply negotiated well and her work product did not justify the perk. Other higher-performing team members resented the fact she was granted an exception.

She was laid off earlier this year.
I feel that is just one example that shines a light negatively on the subject. Though it seems the "team" had it in for her

BillWalters
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by BillWalters » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:18 pm

#3 would be a major issue for me.

Sourc3
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by Sourc3 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:10 am

If you are in tech do not go for a company that was recently purchased by a PE firm. They DO NOT care about the tech/platform/future all they are trying to do is to trim the fat, load it up with debt to take out as much value as possible and flip it.

Everything else is an accounting game. Usually people do end up taking sick days instead of personal days, and take personal days instead of vacation days that way their remaining vacation days carry over. What your immediate manager will do is more important than the company policy in this case.

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geerhardusvos
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by geerhardusvos » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:23 am

silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm
Hello Boggleheads.

I was recently given a job offer that will raise my salary and peaks my interest. There are three sticking points that concern me that I would like to get feedback on.

1. Their average salary increases are around 3%. Though this year they have not given the increase yet due to coronavirus.

2. I would like to get four weeks vacation. They supposedly offer four week but the wording seems questionable. Three weeks are given as vacation. You are then given 3 days of floating holiday and two personal days. These five days you are unable to carry over and are classified as stated. Additionally there is an unlimited sick time policy (which I have never had, rarely take and hear different stories about). My sticking point is I would like to have four weeks of regular vacation time that carry over and the additional five days stated. I feel I have earned the four weeks of straight vacation. With this new employer, you are not eligible for more vacation time until after nine years of service. When asked about the additional vacation time, they DONT believe its possible. Which leads me to believe they havent asked their superior.

3. Lastly, a private equity firm in the last few months recently purchase this large company.
Not enough information for you to get quality answers here. Agree on the PE comments above though.

Boggle is a game. Bogle is the founder of Vanguard.
VTSAX and chill

simas
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by simas » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:33 am

silverlitegs wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:12 pm


I talked to the few coworkers for no longer than an hour on several skype calls (some local, some remote ) . I personally am not able to gauge what someone is like after an hour. Work relationships I sometimes compare to dating. It takes some time to foster what people are like. On the other hand I agree its a business transaction they offer x and I agree to perform w,x,y,z.
question was - do you have enough contact information to reach out to hiring manager and chat about this?
Also, I think I wrote earlier , the easiest way to bend these rules at times is simply to up the base salary and think of additional week you will take as unpaid leave. This also gives a very easy out to anyone on the team questioning why you are having 'more vacation' -Oh, he/she is taking it unpaid, would you like you as well assuming your work commitments do not suffer? that usually shuts up all of the jealous type ..

tashnewbie
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by tashnewbie » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:01 am

Watty wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:07 pm

It sounds like you want five weeks off total, which is a lot especially if you do not already have that at your current job.

Being able to rollover the floating holidays and personal days is pretty much a non-issue unless you take less than 5 days off during a year, you just take those off first.
+1.

Being able to get an additional week of vacation time would be very low on my priority list when considering a new job offer. Like Watty said, you already essentially have 5 weeks of time off - just use the floating holidays and personal days first, before using any PTO/vacation time. If you're really dead-set on the extra week, just ask for a commensurate increase in base salary and take unpaid leave.

I have no idea if the PE aspect is something you should be concerned about. Based on others' comments, perhaps that is a much bigger thing to be thinking about than the time off.

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fizxman
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Re: New Job Offer

Post by fizxman » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:08 am

1. Both 3% a year and none this year are/is going to be typical I believe.

2. I would use the PTO days first since they don't carry over. Then I would sprinkle in a mental health sick day in hear and there, perhaps once or twice a quarter. Then I would use my three weeks of vacation for vacation. You can ask for the fourth week and see what they say. If they say no, you can ask to be placed at "year 5" so that you can get the extra vacation in four years instead of nine years. If they agree to this, make sure it's in writing and you get a copy.

3. My experience working for a company that was owned by a PE firm is positive. Money was never really an issue, in terms of salary, raises, and capital spending. My company was large and consisted of four or five divisions at the time the PE firm bought it. Over time, the PE firm split off and sold each division individually, with my division being the last to be sold. I believe they sold my division for slightly more than what they paid for all the divisions, so they made their money. However, YMMV.

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