Hopeless Civil Engineer

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Flashes1
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Flashes1 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:56 am

What about a part-time job waiting tables on the weekend at a high end steak house? You can earn $100 in tips for each 4-person party (assuming $125/spend per person via a 20% tip).

gr7070
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by gr7070 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:09 pm

30-year CE here.

Unfortunately, CE is likely the lowest paid engineer. However 70k after 10 years is quite low for CE.

For starters, change employers. Especially since you are not in a LCOL.

Look into the forensic engineering firms. Within CE they are commonly rated as best firms to work for. They also commonly pay most for CE - insurance/lawyer money >> entrepreneur or government money.

Not sure what "top engineering firm" means to you. I know of CE firms that do outstanding work, on great projects, but pay their employees poorly or are sweat shops.

A top firm does not necessarily mean a top compensator.

If you are still having issues with you career satisfaction after changing employers then you might want to explore other professions.

You asked about transitioning into coding. You could work for CE software design firms. They recruit CE engineers and convert them into coders far more than vice versa.

TechFI
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by TechFI » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:19 pm

OP, if you want to move into software or "data science" know that entry level is superbly flooded right now.

BUT... even entry FTE positions make close to $100k/yr, which is more than what you're making. Accounting for COL adjustments, it could be the same.

To get swim above the other entry-level candidates, I would see if you can get another job or role change within your industry that is more software or analytics related. Preferably that includes a title change to "software engineer", "data science", "data analytics", etc...

Then once you have that, blast out your resume in 100-300 applications in tech that pays better but for very similar work. It took me 100+ applications and 2yrs of prep work for me to land a position in tech (coming from a low-paying non-tech field). It was worth it. Also learn how selectively retcon your past without lying. If you looked at my resume now, not a single keyworld from my old field is in there, it has all be rewritten in tech-friendly jargon. I also selectively retcon by holding out key information, for my case it was the type of degree I had (I still put my degree in there, but I don't state what it is).

Valuethinker
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Valuethinker » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:31 pm

mooudn wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:59 am
jjbychko wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:22 am
My son also received a BSCE. After graduating from Texas A & M he went to Penn State on a teaching fellowship and received his MSCE. He specialized in structural. He worked about a year or two at a company specializing in blast protection. He was disappointed in the work more than the salary. Felt tasks were boiler plate and he was too far removed from a product/solution. He always had a side interest in computer/coding. He did a coding boot camp and got a coding job immediately. I felt like it was the wrong move but it wasn't. He has since gotten some developer type certifications and has a great job with many opportunities and much better salary. An engineering degree, regardless of specialty teaches you to solve problems so it is not a throw away.

I am also a degreed engineer, now retired. In my working career I have seen others make this type of move. In particular I worked with a CHemistry PHd who switched to software.

Good luck
How did your son make the transition? I don't think there is a lot of overlap between civil and computer/software engineering, so I assume I'd have to start from ground zero earning a Beng or BSc and taking a lot of the prerequisite computer courses.

PS. I don't have any coding/computer science knowledge or background
You can have a fantastic career in software but you need to have an aptitude for it. Being a good coder is a mentally intense process - requiring monomaniacal focus.

There are various aptitude tests around the web, and I think that would be a place to start.

Also do an online course, learn say Python. The real thing is an affinity with algorithmic thinking.

If you read Herminia Ibarra's Working Identity, about career change, career change proceeds as a series of experiments, What Color is your Parachute is also a useful read (about the kind of work you want to do).

Valuethinker
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Valuethinker » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:35 pm

Flashes1 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:56 am
What about a part-time job waiting tables on the weekend at a high end steak house? You can earn $100 in tips for each 4-person party (assuming $125/spend per person via a 20% tip).
The restaurant industry is not hiring at the present moment ;-).

You might say there is a surplus of skilled people for the available opportunities :? :?

And no sign that is likely to change in the near future, anyways.

(interesting new wrinkle - there is a worldwide shortage of the river sand used to make the high quality glass in testtubes & pipettes, which will place a limit on our capacity to produce a vaccine, once we have it).

moghopper
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by moghopper » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:12 pm

sjl333 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:09 pm
Hey OP,

Sorry if this is too blunt - and please don't take this the wrong way - but your salary is extremely low for an engineer with 10+ years. I'm not in civil but my buddy is in HR for a civil engineering firm that focuses on structural engineering , people with S.E. licenses and he told me these engineers are making 250k+. That was two years ago.i think they have had layoffs recently though due to covid.
Structural Engineers are completely different, and are the highest paid civil / mechanical engineers. It also varies greatly by state (like, do you have to have an earthquake certification). Even so, $250K would be exceptional in my area for a consulting engineering firm (and mine is a HCOL area).

OP - I think you should move to another firm, and try to pick up another Civil subspecialty. Roads and Bridges? Water and Waste Water? Land development? There are other paths.

moghopper
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by moghopper » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:15 pm

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:27 am
Surveyors are civil engineers, for example.
Pretty certain this varies by state. No requirement to be a civil engineer in my state in order to be a surveyor. Surveyors are licensed, but do not make C.E. money.

ved
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by ved » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:34 pm

OP,

You were describing me almost exactly from about 20 years ago.

I was a geotech engineer, hopped a couple jobs across the country, but was making about the same as you in real dollars (maybe even less) after about 8 years of work. And I had a masters in geotech to boot.
I was unhappy with the work, the pay, and my social status - how many of my friends that graduated from lesser colleges in other engineering fields were making more than I was.

So, here's what I did:

I convinced the executives at my company that I want to develop software to help the company in improving their processes (I bought Dummies for Access/Visual Basic about a week earlier, and skimmed through it). Was frank with them that I did not have any software experience, but by being a good enginneer / analytical person (they knew this), I should be able to pick up software. So, they initially gave me 20% of my time (1 day a week) to software, and 80% to geotech. Within 6 months, that ratio flipped.
A year or so after I got into software, I went to the VP, and told him I wanted to get my MBA at the local unviversity on a part-time basis. It helped that the VP also got his MBA from there. He approved, provided a recommendation, and I joined the part-time evening/weekend MBA program, and completed in 3 years. The company paid a small portion (less than 10% of the college costs, and I paid for the rest of it myself). I was among the oldest in the class (and the part-time program is generally older than the full time folks)

As part of the campus recruitment, I got a consulting job in tech at a mid-tier consulting company (I was 38 by then) - with an "instant" 30-40% jump in compensation. It's very hard to crack the top tier at this age, but not impossible.

Since then, I had a modest/ decent (but not spectacular) growth - primarily because I wanted to have a work-life balance, and not compete with the young-guns to climb up the career.

What I am saying is, yes - age will be a factor for you now. But, as long as you remember that the competition is with yoursel, and not with your fellow classmates, colleagues, you can do better for yourself. You don't have to take the path I took, but, you need to be clear on what you want to do now - it took me more than 5 years to change, after I realized I want to change. Do I have any regrets? Absolutely. I wish I mad this career change about 5-7 years before I did.

I hope you will see this as a motivation that you can better yourself if you want. But, you don't have a lot of time, and need to be clear on what you want to be.

Thanks

bmelikia
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by bmelikia » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:48 pm

superinvestor wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:32 pm
If you go back to school for two years, that's 160k in lost income. Assuming 7.5% gains perpetually, that's about 680k compounded over 20 years. Not factoring in the cost of school. Is another degree going to pay itself off?
Your math is sensationalizing the "back to school" argument. . .he's not currently saving 80k per year, so the 7.5% compounded gain that you are assuming on 160k isn't accurate. He would not otherwise continue to work and invest 160k over the course of the next 2 years of continued employment.
"I would rather die with money, than live without it...." - Bogleheads member Ron | | "The greatest enemy of a good plan, is the dream of a perfect plan." | -Bogle

crinkles2
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by crinkles2 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:05 pm

OP, I am in a very similar position as you, $87k pay, geotech. much less travelled than yourself.

Recently got my PE, employer seems to not want to reward it even though pushing for it for a long while.

Honestly, it's been an unfulfilling career. And yes, the reality is that you are int he construction industry and need to deal with those contractor types. I've had a few contractors that were actually really nice and understanding, but it's cut-throat and I get very tired of the constant undermining of engineering and scientific principles by my clients and even my employer in the interest of 'making things work'.

Honestly I am at a cross-roads myself, and kicking myself for not doing something computer related in my youth. Feel like at 40 it's really too late to be fiddling with this stuff.

best of luck to you.

Valuethinker
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Valuethinker » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:02 am

crinkles2 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:05 pm
OP, I am in a very similar position as you, $87k pay, geotech. much less travelled than yourself.

Recently got my PE, employer seems to not want to reward it even though pushing for it for a long while.

Honestly, it's been an unfulfilling career. And yes, the reality is that you are int he construction industry and need to deal with those contractor types. I've had a few contractors that were actually really nice and understanding, but it's cut-throat and I get very tired of the constant undermining of engineering and scientific principles by my clients and even my employer in the interest of 'making things work'.

Honestly I am at a cross-roads myself, and kicking myself for not doing something computer related in my youth. Feel like at 40 it's really too late to be fiddling with this stuff.

best of luck to you.
It's never too late to master coding.

What happens after that? Who knows?

But you won't be able to work in software without first knowing how to code. And *that* you can learn whilst holding down a full time job.

I have changed careers twice after age 40. It happens.

tibbitts
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by tibbitts » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:17 am

crinkles2 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:05 pm
OP, I am in a very similar position as you, $87k pay, geotech. much less travelled than yourself.

Recently got my PE, employer seems to not want to reward it even though pushing for it for a long while.

Honestly, it's been an unfulfilling career. And yes, the reality is that you are int he construction industry and need to deal with those contractor types. I've had a few contractors that were actually really nice and understanding, but it's cut-throat and I get very tired of the constant undermining of engineering and scientific principles by my clients and even my employer in the interest of 'making things work'.

Honestly I am at a cross-roads myself, and kicking myself for not doing something computer related in my youth. Feel like at 40 it's really too late to be fiddling with this stuff.

best of luck to you.
Do you really think that in computer-related fields you would never be frustrated by engineering or scientific principles being undermined in the interest of "making things work"?

F_E
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by F_E » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:48 am

80K is not too bad, but I think that the geotech side is a bit tougher to pull in the higher incomes since they are typically not the project lead (at least on many projects). Usually a civil/water resources (at least in my niche) or other will lead the project while you as a geotech would provide some aspect of the project. That's why you are just grinding through small projects/parts of projects rather than leading one.

The other issue is you moving around regions/countries. A lot of value for civil engineers are the client contacts and ability to generate revenue. You almost start over from scratch when you move between regions/locations since you don't have those local client contacts to help you firm generate revenue. And, those top tier firms can tend to grind through lower cost engineers to get the work done for higher compensated client leads and executives. There are lots of entry/mid level engineers that produce 75% of what a higher compensated, experience employee costs, at half the cost.

You probably need to jump for a smaller firm to get the client contacts and the ability to take on more project leadership roles. I may be off base in your situation, but moving to a different firm may help your compensation (over time) and provide a bit more interesting projects/variety so you don't get bored.

Good luck and don't get too down in dumps about your situation. And, always remember people always exaggerate their compensation or really don't know what the average is among peers.

Glockenspiel
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Glockenspiel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:32 pm

$70-$80k is probably average for 10 years into Civil Engineering in a location that's not super high cost of living.

I'm a civil engineer with 12 years of experience in the Midwest and make $93k salary right now.

One of the best ways as a civil engineer to increase your income is to increase your skills to start managing projects, or interacting with clients to provide good service to gain trust with a client, for repeat work. The other way would be to change jobs. I switched jobs and immediately got a 12% salary increase and gained the opportunity with a smaller company to gain skills needed to manage projects, write proposals, and meet with clients.

ctfish
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by ctfish » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:34 pm

OP I PMd you to refer to some suitable nuclear industry jobs

Glockenspiel
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Glockenspiel » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:40 pm

SB1234 wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:22 pm


I think this is the best advice. One of my friends is a Civil engineer, and after a few years, probably 10, he started his own firm in a very niche civil engineering design consulting.
Starting your own firm is a very tough as a civil engineer, especially if you aren't a confident outgoing individual (most engineers aren't). There's insurance, software, marketing, QA/QC, etc. Unless you have some very trusted clients it would be hard to break into the industry.

Luke Duke
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Location: Texas

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Luke Duke » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:55 pm

Have you tried looking into in-house jobs? If you can land one you will be on the same pay scale as the MEs and EEs.

RocketShipTech
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by RocketShipTech » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:38 pm

ctfish wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:34 pm
OP I PMd you to refer to some suitable nuclear industry jobs
I first read that as “stable” nuclear industry jobs and LOLed

treesinthewind
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by treesinthewind » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:40 pm

Another hopeless civil engineer here (environmental/water/wastewater), following the suggestions that have been posted. The recommendations to change jobs are not immediately actionable, right? I've been networking and it sounds like everyone has hiring freezes, but maybe that's just a nice way of saying they're not interested in me.

I've been in government for close to 20 years and would like to go to the private side. To me, the bureaucracy and generally soul-crushing poor morale are not worth the perks discussed here, and the pay is quite low. (Not all the experience has been with the same agency so I have multiple pensions and will not have 30 years in any system to get a full pension.) However, I'm finding it hard to determine what my most marketable skills are to a consultant. I've been dabbling in data analysis, as has been suggested here, and have some rudimentary coding skills, but nothing that a new grad couldn't offer. I've done project management but that doesn't seem to be generating much interest as it has been on the owner side. I truly enjoy writing big juicy reports and could probably parlay that to proposal writing, etc. but that doesn't seem to be a full-time position anywhere. Any thoughts on what specific position types would be suitable? Are there specific programming languages that would be most marketable? I'm intrigued by the posters who report they went to a boot camp and changed careers in their 40s, but I'm baffled as to what I would offer that someone 10 or so years younger wouldn't.

I also find it difficult to network because I oversee contracts with most of the consulting companies I would be most interested in working at--how do I signal interest without potentially running into conflict of interest problems? I appreciate what KlangFool said in another thread--I've been working a long time and have a network, so that should be the source of new employment opportunities. However, I would greatly appreciate advice as to how to put that into action.

tibbitts
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by tibbitts » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:59 pm

treesinthewind wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:40 pm
Another hopeless civil engineer here (environmental/water/wastewater), following the suggestions that have been posted. The recommendations to change jobs are not immediately actionable, right? I've been networking and it sounds like everyone has hiring freezes, but maybe that's just a nice way of saying they're not interested in me.

I've been in government for close to 20 years and would like to go to the private side. To me, the bureaucracy and generally soul-crushing poor morale are not worth the perks discussed here, and the pay is quite low. (Not all the experience has been with the same agency so I have multiple pensions and will not have 30 years in any system to get a full pension.) However, I'm finding it hard to determine what my most marketable skills are to a consultant. I've been dabbling in data analysis, as has been suggested here, and have some rudimentary coding skills, but nothing that a new grad couldn't offer. I've done project management but that doesn't seem to be generating much interest as it has been on the owner side. I truly enjoy writing big juicy reports and could probably parlay that to proposal writing, etc. but that doesn't seem to be a full-time position anywhere. Any thoughts on what specific position types would be suitable? Are there specific programming languages that would be most marketable? I'm intrigued by the posters who report they went to a boot camp and changed careers in their 40s, but I'm baffled as to what I would offer that someone 10 or so years younger wouldn't.

I also find it difficult to network because I oversee contracts with most of the consulting companies I would be most interested in working at--how do I signal interest without potentially running into conflict of interest problems? I appreciate what KlangFool said in another thread--I've been working a long time and have a network, so that should be the source of new employment opportunities. However, I would greatly appreciate advice as to how to put that into action.
I disagree with your generalizations about government vs. private industry. Every job is unique and no type of employer has a monopoly on "soul crushing morale." There are good and bad jobs in both the public and private sector.

Not just anybody can show up at a coding bootcamp and be successful. There's a knack for coding and not everybody has it.

gr7070
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by gr7070 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:17 pm

treesinthewind wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:40 pm
I've been networking and it sounds like everyone has hiring freezes, but maybe that's just a nice way of saying they're not interested in me.

I've been in government for close to 20 years and would like to go to the private side.

However, I'm finding it hard to determine what my most marketable skills are to a consultant.

I've done project management but that doesn't seem to be generating much interest as it has been on the owner side.

I truly enjoy writing big juicy reports and could probably parlay that to proposal writing, etc. but that doesn't seem to be a full-time position anywhere.

Any thoughts on what specific position types would be suitable?
For reference I spent decades in private consulting then went to government employment.

I think it largely depends upon your underlying base skills. Do you have the technical skills to provide needed deliverables?

There are plenty of excellent public employees who have done heavy lifting (real engineering) in their careers, including management of people and projects. And there are enough who are PMs in name only and mostly have pushed paper (and responsibility).

So, owner PMs who produce and oversee production vs. owner PMs who administer contracts that consultants do the actual production.

Which are you? The former can be valued greatly. The latter usually struggles proving their worth on the consultant side. I'm not suggesting your the latter. Showing you're the former to a prospective employer is the key.

It really depends on the kind of "owner PM" role you filled and your experience leading up to that.

I'm my experience *proposal writing* is augmented by lower paid marketers not engineers. It's not that valuable.

Proposall *winning* is headlined by engineer PMs with those technical base skills and true PM experience I referred to above. This is big bucks and high demand. If you can win work consistently, which is not easy.

Proposal team members and leads who help win work do quite well also. They are usually part PM and heavy technically.

At 20 years in these are the rolls you'd probably be looking to fill, that or staying in the pure engineering only side, which at that level still do well financially usually.
treesinthewind wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:40 pm
I also find it difficult to network because I oversee contracts with most of the consulting companies I would be most interested in working at--how do I signal interest without potentially running into conflict of interest problems?
That depends a lot upon your state's laws and your employer's ethics.

Merely looking for employment, presuming no quid pro quo, typically would not present an ethical dilemma.

international001
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by international001 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:33 pm

bmelikia wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:48 pm
superinvestor wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:32 pm
If you go back to school for two years, that's 160k in lost income. Assuming 7.5% gains perpetually, that's about 680k compounded over 20 years. Not factoring in the cost of school. Is another degree going to pay itself off?
Your math is sensationalizing the "back to school" argument. . .he's not currently saving 80k per year, so the 7.5% compounded gain that you are assuming on 160k isn't accurate. He would not otherwise continue to work and invest 160k over the course of the next 2 years of continued employment.
huh?

You have to discount taxes (10k?), but what does it matter if he is not saving 80k. If he is saving 20k and spending 50k, he is losing 70k a year. Assuming you are maintaining the same lifestyle

Topic Author
mooudn
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by mooudn » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:05 pm

ChicagoC wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:10 pm
Former environmental engineer who worked in consulting for 10 years. I went off (while working) and got my MBA and ultimately left to go in house.
What do you mean by 'in-house'?

oldfort
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by oldfort » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:06 pm

What about starting your own company?

treesinthewind
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by treesinthewind » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:21 pm

gr7070 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:17 pm
There are plenty of excellent public employees who have done heavy lifting (real engineering) in their careers, including management of people and projects. And there are enough who are PMs in name only and mostly have pushed paper (and responsibility).

So, owner PMs who produce and oversee production vs. owner PMs who administer contracts that consultants do the actual production.

Which are you? The former can be valued greatly. The latter usually struggles proving their worth on the consultant side. I'm not suggesting your the latter. Showing you're the former to a prospective employer is the key.
Thanks very much for the insight. Unfortunately, I'm the latter. With 20/20 hindsight, I see that public employment has shifted such that almost all "heavy lifting" is done by consultants. Those who did the heavy lifting in their careers were nearing retirement when I started my career, and it's not to most agencies' benefit to have that kind of expertise in-house anymore. Even the best technical engineer at an agency will be a generalist to some extent and design a given unit process once or twice in a career, whereas a consultant has a specialist team that has designed that same unit process all over the world. Maybe some of the biggest agencies still design their own pipelines or roads in-house, but that is the exception at this point. So I push paper. It is not what I intended to do and I would like to "produce," but my experience is basically "involvement" in a lot of projects. I know permitting, I know regulatory, I know bad design and potential pitfalls when I see them. Project gadfly doesn't show up in many job descriptions though.
gr7070 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:17 pm
treesinthewind wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:40 pm
I also find it difficult to network because I oversee contracts with most of the consulting companies I would be most interested in working at--how do I signal interest without potentially running into conflict of interest problems?
That depends a lot upon your state's laws and your employer's ethics.

Merely looking for employment, presuming no quid pro quo, typically would not present an ethical dilemma.
My fear is that even awarding a contract to a consultant and then turning around and working for them a few months later (potentially on that project) would look very much like a quid pro quo, would it not?

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MikeWillRetire
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by MikeWillRetire » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:23 pm

Civil engineer here, with 35 years experience. When I look back at what I was making after 10 years, it is similar to your salary after adjusting for inflation. For me, that was a great salary, much more than my father ever made. And I actually enjoyed the work. But even back then, computer science majors, electrical engineers, made more than civil engineers. I knew that while I was choosing a major. But I wouldn't have liked that type of work.

oldfort
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by oldfort » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:25 pm

Valuethinker wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:02 am
crinkles2 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:05 pm
OP, I am in a very similar position as you, $87k pay, geotech. much less travelled than yourself.

Recently got my PE, employer seems to not want to reward it even though pushing for it for a long while.

Honestly, it's been an unfulfilling career. And yes, the reality is that you are int he construction industry and need to deal with those contractor types. I've had a few contractors that were actually really nice and understanding, but it's cut-throat and I get very tired of the constant undermining of engineering and scientific principles by my clients and even my employer in the interest of 'making things work'.

Honestly I am at a cross-roads myself, and kicking myself for not doing something computer related in my youth. Feel like at 40 it's really too late to be fiddling with this stuff.

best of luck to you.
It's never too late to master coding.

What happens after that? Who knows?

But you won't be able to work in software without first knowing how to code. And *that* you can learn whilst holding down a full time job.

I have changed careers twice after age 40. It happens.
Mastering coding is the easy part. The difficult part is getting past the HR screens without a computer science degree.

treesinthewind
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:35 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by treesinthewind » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:36 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:59 pm

I disagree with your generalizations about government vs. private industry. Every job is unique and no type of employer has a monopoly on "soul crushing morale." There are good and bad jobs in both the public and private sector.

Not just anybody can show up at a coding bootcamp and be successful. There's a knack for coding and not everybody has it.
I agree about there being no monopoly on bad morale, and there are some great people in public service, no question. But public employment does have a particular niche in people who show up every day for no other reason than to retire and collect their pension. They know how many hundreds of days they have left until retirement, and "how are you?" is always answered with a declaration of the day of the week, with "It's Friday" being the only response that brings a hint of a smile. I'm old enough to know that work is work, but I'm still young enough that I want to be vaguely excited about the next 10-15 years of my career and feel like I'm doing more than marking time and pushing paper.

I had a knack for coding--20 years ago when I was just out of school. I loved it. Probably should have pursued it, much like another poster lamented, but I thought coding was for nerds, and I wanted to help others and the environment. I may still have a knack, but would love some actionable advice as to what I could learn/create now that would be at all competitive with someone just out of school. I did college-level classes in C++, Matlab, and Visual Basic in the 1990s. I'm trying to pick up R and Python but I'm mystified as to what jobs people are actually getting when they say they went to a bootcamp or took a coursera class and changed careers no problem.

TechFI
Posts: 108
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:07 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by TechFI » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:43 pm

oldfort wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:25 pm
Mastering coding is the easy part. The difficult part is getting past the HR screens without a computer science degree.
+1. This was my problem when I tried to break in.

fingoals
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:43 pm

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by fingoals » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:30 pm

mooudn wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:11 pm
Hi guys,

I went to college for Civil Engineering thinking that I'd be making good money, but i'm 10 years in the consulting business and I'm still only making 70-80k and that's after joining the top civil engineering firm in my industry. I thought about going back to school to get a degree like law to give my career a boost, but most law programs prefer engineers in electrical of computer sciences.

What degree can i get to supplement my MSc in civil engineering that would give me a significant salary boost? Any ideas would be appreciated. Ideally something in the life sciences (wildlife, plant protection etc) combined with my engineering skills would be desirableas it would be more in line with my natural interests.

:sharebeer
Before you dive into transitioning from civil engineering to IT, consider the following interesting niche on the intersection of these fields: data center civil engineering for major cloud providers. To illustrate my suggestion, here is a recently posted AWS position that I ran across just today: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/1168673 ... evelopment. I suspect that this job pays more than what you're currently making. Good luck!

gr7070
Posts: 1146
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:39 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by gr7070 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:52 pm

treesinthewind wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:21 pm
gr7070 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:17 pm
There are plenty of excellent public employees who have done heavy lifting (real engineering) in their careers, including management of people and projects. And there are enough who are PMs in name only and mostly have pushed paper (and responsibility).

So, owner PMs who produce and oversee production vs. owner PMs who administer contracts that consultants do the actual production.

Which are you? The former can be valued greatly. The latter usually struggles proving their worth on the consultant side. I'm not suggesting your the latter. Showing you're the former to a prospective employer is the key.
Thanks very much for the insight. Unfortunately, I'm the latter. With 20/20 hindsight, I see that public employment has shifted such that almost all "heavy lifting" is done by consultants. Those who did the heavy lifting in their careers were nearing retirement when I started my career, and it's not to most agencies' benefit to have that kind of expertise in-house anymore. Even the best technical engineer at an agency will be a generalist to some extent and design a given unit process once or twice in a career, whereas a consultant has a specialist team that has designed that same unit process all over the world. Maybe some of the biggest agencies still design their own pipelines or roads in-house, but that is the exception at this point. So I push paper. It is not what I intended to do and I would like to "produce," but my experience is basically "involvement" in a lot of projects. I know permitting, I know regulatory, I know bad design and potential pitfalls when I see them. Project gadfly doesn't show up in many job descriptions though.
Understand I'm a former (the producer/manager) type not the latter (administrator) type. So I definitely have a bias. Though I strongly feel my post is accurate.

Some states like California, Texas, Florida and others do still have those high-level technical experts, which is why I took the position I did.

Also know one can certainly excel at the other regardless. It just helps to have the former experience, imo.

You can set reasonable expectations of yourself for your future employer, one that may allow you to float some before you sink or swim.

Do not allow yourself to stay where you don't want to be. Take action to change regardless of age experience etc.
treesinthewind wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:21 pm
My fear is that even awarding a contract to a consultant and then turning around and working for them a few months later (potentially on that project) would look very much like a quid pro quo, would it not?
In my state that is explicitly illegal.
Just know whether it is explicitly illegal and/or explicitly unethical and act accordingly. Who cares about perception. I would not allow implications to trap me.

Make it (whatever you want) happen. Good luck!
Last edited by gr7070 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gr7070
Posts: 1146
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by gr7070 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:59 pm

treesinthewind wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:36 pm
I had a knack for coding--20 years ago when I was just out of school. I loved it. Probably should have pursued it, much like another poster lamented, but I thought coding was for nerds, and I wanted to help others and the environment. I may still have a knack, but would love some actionable advice as to what I could learn/create now that would be at all competitive with someone just out of school. I did college-level classes in C++, Matlab, and Visual Basic in the 1990s. I'm trying to pick up R and Python but I'm mystified as to what jobs people are actually getting when they say they went to a bootcamp or took a coursera class and changed careers no problem.
Talk to all the civil design software companies. I know the structural ones hire civil engineers and then develop them into programmers.

Not being an everyday designer probably isn't ideal there, but I wouldn't let that deter me. They might tell you no - you shouldn't.
Last edited by gr7070 on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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3CT_Paddler
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Location: Marietta, GA

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by 3CT_Paddler » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:07 pm

I come bearing hope as a previously hopeless civil engineer.

About 8 years into my career I was a civil PE in water resources making $67k and wanted to make a career change... this was all within the last decade. I made a company change and my salary increased 20%. Two years later I made a move for the company in an area that had a hot market and made another 20% increase over the following 2 years. I changed firms to get work-life balance back in focus without decreasing my salary. Finally I made one more move to help startup a new office in a new market with the same firm (and to be close to family) and was able to secure a 30% raise.

It can be done. Some fields are more difficult to secure those raises in. Transportation/roadway (DOT's are getting shellacked right now, municipal is ok - but it will recover), water resources, structural are all better opportunities than geotech over the long term. How well do you communicate with others? It's a bit ironic that the best skill for a civil engineer to possess as he gains experience (in many fields) is the ability to communicate with clients, lead a team, write proposals... basically all of the things that many civil engineers went to school to avoid. :happy :oops:

I also have a hunch that in the next five years there is going to be a glut of data science/low skill coders... yes the market is signaling a shortage with higher salaries, but it sure seems like there are a lot of people jumping into that space. I do some Python coding on the side/as a hobby and you are plenty capable of picking it up if you are an analytical civil engineer, but it takes time and practice.

I would recommend you find another civil practice that interests you where there is potential for growth and make a lateral move into that field. Maybe you are making the same salary, but I can guarantee that if you have an interest in it, and are encouraged about the growth opportunities - you will end up in a much better place financially and emotionally in the next five years. One of my people made the change from geotech to water resources within the past couple of years and he is making over $100k now (around 12 years experience). A warning on water resources... the salaries for a water resources engineer in Maryland/Virginia are higher than most other areas for water resources due to regulatory drivers.

bmelikia
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by bmelikia » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:39 pm

international001 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:33 pm
bmelikia wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:48 pm
superinvestor wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:32 pm
If you go back to school for two years, that's 160k in lost income. Assuming 7.5% gains perpetually, that's about 680k compounded over 20 years. Not factoring in the cost of school. Is another degree going to pay itself off?
Your math is sensationalizing the "back to school" argument. . .he's not currently saving 80k per year, so the 7.5% compounded gain that you are assuming on 160k isn't accurate. He would not otherwise continue to work and invest 160k over the course of the next 2 years of continued employment.
huh?

You have to discount taxes (10k?), but what does it matter if he is not saving 80k. If he is saving 20k and spending 50k, he is losing 70k a year. Assuming you are maintaining the same lifestyle
Your comment was that if he went to school the cost is 160k compounded at 7.5% equaling 680k over 20 years.

But his choosing to stay employed over the course of the next 2 years will not return 680k over 20 years because he is not saving/investing 100% of his gross income - so your statement is a poor comparison because that math is not possible
"I would rather die with money, than live without it...." - Bogleheads member Ron | | "The greatest enemy of a good plan, is the dream of a perfect plan." | -Bogle

oldfort
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by oldfort » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:41 pm

We had interesting debate on how to increase income in a previous thread. Some posters suggested you could make $200k as a plumber or electrician.

international001
Posts: 1498
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:31 pm

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by international001 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:07 pm

bmelikia wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:39 pm
international001 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:33 pm
bmelikia wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:48 pm
superinvestor wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:32 pm
If you go back to school for two years, that's 160k in lost income. Assuming 7.5% gains perpetually, that's about 680k compounded over 20 years. Not factoring in the cost of school. Is another degree going to pay itself off?
Your math is sensationalizing the "back to school" argument. . .he's not currently saving 80k per year, so the 7.5% compounded gain that you are assuming on 160k isn't accurate. He would not otherwise continue to work and invest 160k over the course of the next 2 years of continued employment.
huh?

You have to discount taxes (10k?), but what does it matter if he is not saving 80k. If he is saving 20k and spending 50k, he is losing 70k a year. Assuming you are maintaining the same lifestyle
Your comment was that if he went to school the cost is 160k compounded at 7.5% equaling 680k over 20 years.

But his choosing to stay employed over the course of the next 2 years will not return 680k over 20 years because he is not saving/investing 100% of his gross income - so your statement is a poor comparison because that math is not possible
Well, it depends on your assumptions
But it's 160k he is not making. If you compare apples to apples you could live like an student during those 2 years, not save anything and invest the whole 160k.
Of course, there are taxes, and you have to add student expenses, that perhaps are financed, etc. Extreme case is when student expenses are 0 and there are no taxes. Then the above is true. But it's a simplification

Goot
Posts: 7
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Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Goot » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:18 pm

This thread is a stark reminder that pay is so specific to locality. I'm in Atlanta, working for a very large firm, where entry level offers are made at $65-70k; 28 year olds with their PE are at $85-90k; mid-career non-PE designers are $100k and PMs are $150-$200k. Within the last 5 years Georgia has passed massive funding initiatives that have created a ton of work resulting in increased demand, but still by no means a VHCOL location. To those CEs in this thread, if you feel stagnant and are open to a move to Georgia, I strongly consider it.

Glockenspiel
Posts: 1073
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by Glockenspiel » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:52 pm

Goot wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:18 pm
This thread is a stark reminder that pay is so specific to locality. I'm in Atlanta, working for a very large firm, where entry level offers are made at $65-70k; 28 year olds with their PE are at $85-90k; mid-career non-PE designers are $100k and PMs are $150-$200k. Within the last 5 years Georgia has passed massive funding initiatives that have created a ton of work resulting in increased demand, but still by no means a VHCOL location. To those CEs in this thread, if you feel stagnant and are open to a move to Georgia, I strongly consider it.
I'm in a Minneapolis suburb and entry-level offers for civil EITs are around $55-60k. PEs with 6 years of experience are usually around $70-$80k. PEs getting into project management with 10 years of experience are usually around $85-$115k. More senior PMs are around $125-$175k. Principals or senior VPs of the company are around $150k-$225k.

qiora
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by qiora » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:32 pm

OP and I shared similar path.. BS in Civil/MS in Civil concentration in Geotech/PE. VHCOL area. 70% of my professional experience in the field/construction inspection, 30% in design/analytics. I am about 14 years into my career now.

I started out with a top design consulting firm during my first 10 years. Clients were mostly private. Private development projects generally had tight/unstable budgets. Our staff had to work efficiently, always be cognizant of their billable hours, etc. I started with the company at about $55k. I left after Year 10 at about $85k despite clear path to promotion.

After Year 10, I switched to another firm whose clients are all public agencies. This firm specializes in construction management/inspection for large-scale/long-term public infrastructure projects. It can afford to pay people like myself 30% higher in base salary, up to 1.6x in overtime, 6% higher 401k match, avg 5% raise every year, and 100% billable once assigned to a project (aside from vacation), etc. I am on track to retire before 50.

It's not hopeless. You can change career if you want to pursue other passion, but shouldnt do that to chase money. There are highly compensated positions within the Civil/Construction industry. You need to know where to look.. It starts by understanding the industry/market at your location a little bit better.. whether its through local networking events, recruiter, attend conferences/seminars, in meetings, talk to people while on site (whether its the designer, inspector, general contractor, their subs, fabricator, material supplier, etc).

Topic Author
mooudn
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:28 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by mooudn » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:29 am

qiora wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:32 pm
OP and I shared similar path.. BS in Civil/MS in Civil concentration in Geotech/PE. VHCOL area. 70% of my professional experience in the field/construction inspection, 30% in design/analytics. I am about 14 years into my career now.

I started out with a top design consulting firm during my first 10 years. Clients were mostly private. Private development projects generally had tight/unstable budgets. Our staff had to work efficiently, always be cognizant of their billable hours, etc. I started with the company at about $55k. I left after Year 10 at about $85k despite clear path to promotion.

After Year 10, I switched to another firm whose clients are all public agencies. This firm specializes in construction management/inspection for large-scale/long-term public infrastructure projects. It can afford to pay people like myself 30% higher in base salary, up to 1.6x in overtime, 6% higher 401k match, avg 5% raise every year, and 100% billable once assigned to a project (aside from vacation), etc. I am on track to retire before 50.

It's not hopeless. You can change career if you want to pursue other passion, but shouldnt do that to chase money. There are highly compensated positions within the Civil/Construction industry. You need to know where to look.. It starts by understanding the industry/market at your location a little bit better.. whether its through local networking events, recruiter, attend conferences/seminars, in meetings, talk to people while on site (whether its the designer, inspector, general contractor, their subs, fabricator, material supplier, etc).
What would be some examples of construction management companies that have public clients be? I'm thinking Kleinfelder/golder associates and the like are the consulting firms with private clients and the Jacobs/AECOMs are the construction management firms? Do I have this right?

I'm with a global consulting firm that has a mix of government clients (DOT's etc) as well as private land development ones and I have to say they are extremely profit focused.

Topic Author
mooudn
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:28 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by mooudn » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:50 am

fingoals wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:30 pm
Before you dive into transitioning from civil engineering to IT, consider the following interesting niche on the intersection of these fields: data center civil engineering for major cloud providers. To illustrate my suggestion, here is a recently posted AWS position that I ran across just today: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/1168673 ... evelopment. I suspect that this job pays more than what you're currently making. Good luck!
I think they're just looking for civil engineers to design their infrastructure. I don't see an intersection between two different fields.

sd323232
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:45 pm

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by sd323232 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:24 am

Here is structural engineer calling to dave ramsey

https://youtu.be/O_7RsSUJY9Q

She is 10 year exp, making 160k.

Can OP get into this career route? Structural engineers have civil background?

fingoals
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:43 pm

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by fingoals » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:24 am

mooudn wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:50 am
fingoals wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:30 pm
Before you dive into transitioning from civil engineering to IT, consider the following interesting niche on the intersection of these fields: data center civil engineering for major cloud providers. To illustrate my suggestion, here is a recently posted AWS position that I ran across just today: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/1168673 ... evelopment. I suspect that this job pays more than what you're currently making. Good luck!
I think they're just looking for civil engineers to design their infrastructure. I don't see an intersection between two different fields.
I understand. However, I think that you misinterpreted my use of the word "intersection" in this case. I did not mean it as an intersection of the fields' subject matter / knowledge domains, but rather as potential partial exposure to relevant (IT) terminology and potential expansion of OP's professional network (assuming a desire to explore a career transition to IT further down the line).

Topic Author
mooudn
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:28 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by mooudn » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:27 am

sd323232 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:24 am
Here is structural engineer calling to dave ramsey

https://youtu.be/O_7RsSUJY9Q

She is 10 year exp, making 160k.

Can OP get into this career route? Structural engineers have civil background?
I honestly do not know HOW she is making 160k. When I do search on indeed.com. both structural and geotechnical engineers have comparable median salaries in the US (around 85k)
Last edited by mooudn on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

qiora
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by qiora » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:33 am

mooudn wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:29 am
qiora wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:32 pm
OP and I shared similar path.. BS in Civil/MS in Civil concentration in Geotech/PE. VHCOL area. 70% of my professional experience in the field/construction inspection, 30% in design/analytics. I am about 14 years into my career now.

I started out with a top design consulting firm during my first 10 years. Clients were mostly private. Private development projects generally had tight/unstable budgets. Our staff had to work efficiently, always be cognizant of their billable hours, etc. I started with the company at about $55k. I left after Year 10 at about $85k despite clear path to promotion.

After Year 10, I switched to another firm whose clients are all public agencies. This firm specializes in construction management/inspection for large-scale/long-term public infrastructure projects. It can afford to pay people like myself 30% higher in base salary, up to 1.6x in overtime, 6% higher 401k match, avg 5% raise every year, and 100% billable once assigned to a project (aside from vacation), etc. I am on track to retire before 50.

It's not hopeless. You can change career if you want to pursue other passion, but shouldnt do that to chase money. There are highly compensated positions within the Civil/Construction industry. You need to know where to look.. It starts by understanding the industry/market at your location a little bit better.. whether its through local networking events, recruiter, attend conferences/seminars, in meetings, talk to people while on site (whether its the designer, inspector, general contractor, their subs, fabricator, material supplier, etc).
What would be some examples of construction management companies that have public clients be? I'm thinking Kleinfelder/golder associates and the like are the consulting firms with private clients and the Jacobs/AECOMs are the construction management firms? Do I have this right?

I'm with a global consulting firm that has a mix of government clients (DOT's etc) as well as private land development ones and I have to say they are extremely profit focused.
I am from Northeast. Below is a sample 2019 ENR regional top list based on reported 2018 revenue.

https://www.enr.com/NewYork/Toplists/20 ... sign-Firms

Transportation sector means public infrastructure work. So target any company on that list with say more than $50 million revenue from transportation sector. From personal experience in my region, AECOM/WSP/Parsons/STV/GPI/HDR; Not on the list - Liro, Jacobs.. all have those high-paying construction management/inspection positions.

Feel free to look up your region-specific list on ENR.

SmallSaver
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:34 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by SmallSaver » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:36 am

mooudn wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:11 pm
Hi guys,

I went to college for Civil Engineering thinking that I'd be making good money, but i'm 10 years in the consulting business and I'm still only making 70-80k and that's after joining the top civil engineering firm in my industry. I thought about going back to school to get a degree like law to give my career a boost, but most law programs prefer engineers in electrical of computer sciences.

What degree can i get to supplement my MSc in civil engineering that would give me a significant salary boost? Any ideas would be appreciated. Ideally something in the life sciences (wildlife, plant protection etc) combined with my engineering skills would be desirableas it would be more in line with my natural interests.

:sharebeer
Money isn't everything, but absolutely do not go into wildlife/plants for the money.

Topic Author
mooudn
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:28 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by mooudn » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:04 am

qiora wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:33 am
I am from Northeast. Below is a sample 2019 ENR regional top list based on reported 2018 revenue.

https://www.enr.com/NewYork/Toplists/20 ... sign-Firms

Transportation sector means public infrastructure work. So target any company on that list with say more than $50 million revenue from transportation sector. From personal experience in my region, AECOM/WSP/Parsons/STV/GPI/HDR; Not on the list - Liro, Jacobs.. all have those high-paying construction management/inspection positions.

Feel free to look up your region-specific list on ENR.
Thanks this is great. I've been working on multi billion dollar public infrastructure jobs my whole career (subway, highway expansions etc) but I've been working for sub-consultant geotech firms hired by the HDR/Parsons/Jacobs and the like. Maybe that's the issue.

NerdicSkier
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:08 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by NerdicSkier » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:06 am

SmallSaver wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:36 am

Money isn't everything, but absolutely do not go into wildlife/plants for the money.
In college I knew a couple that were a civil engineer and an ecologist, they wanted to start a company called, "Pave and Save".

Topic Author
mooudn
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:28 am

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by mooudn » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:08 am

qiora wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:33 am
Transportation sector means public infrastructure work. So target any company on that list with say more than $50 million revenue from transportation sector. From personal experience in my region, AECOM/WSP/Parsons/STV/GPI/HDR; Not on the list - Liro, Jacobs.. all have those high-paying construction management/inspection positions.

Feel free to look up your region-specific list on ENR.
..also what is your opinion on the mining sector compared to transportation?

qiora
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:49 pm

Re: Hopeless Civil Engineer

Post by qiora » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:42 am

mooudn wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:04 am
qiora wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:33 am
I am from Northeast. Below is a sample 2019 ENR regional top list based on reported 2018 revenue.

https://www.enr.com/NewYork/Toplists/20 ... sign-Firms

Transportation sector means public infrastructure work. So target any company on that list with say more than $50 million revenue from transportation sector. From personal experience in my region, AECOM/WSP/Parsons/STV/GPI/HDR; Not on the list - Liro, Jacobs.. all have those high-paying construction management/inspection positions.

Feel free to look up your region-specific list on ENR.
Thanks this is great. I've been working on multi billion dollar public infrastructure jobs my whole career (subway, highway expansions etc) but I've been working for sub-consultant geotech firms hired by the HDR/Parsons/Jacobs and the like. Maybe that's the issue.
That's exactly the issue.

Is your firm the geotech subs to HDR/Parsons/Jacobs during design phase or construction support phase? Either way, your firm's contract value and thus staffing hours should be limited. The construction management/inspection type services I referenced above is called Resident Engineering Inspection Services, which are directly contracted with the public agencies (owners) for the duration of construction. These services are typically valued in about 1% to 2% of the overall construction contract. Quite lucrative.

I do not have experience in mining sector. It can be very region-specific so I cannot comment.

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