Question - Reloc to TX

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hookemhorns
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by hookemhorns » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:58 pm

I think you're generally on the right track - rent for the first year and see how you like living in Dallas and your new job. I would worry about everything else later and certainly not plan my life/retirement around taxes or whether I own property in Dallas or not.

I will say that property taxes are killer here and a good reason not to own expensive property. In the City of Dallas, the rate works out to ~2.75% before the homestead deduction. Other cities and counties are lower but you're almost always looking at >= 2%. The other problem is the property values are constantly revalued upward even if your income remains flat. Looking at the records for our house, the assessed value has increased 60% over the past decade and 2.6x over the past 20 years.

In general, it's a nice place to live though especially if you have a family. I don't think anybody moves here because it's some really exciting city, but rather because it has a nice combo of affordable/safe/low unemployment. The biggest downside is the temperature is usually brutal from now through late August.

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goodenyou
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by goodenyou » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:04 pm

I have a 5000+ sq. ft house with two 5-ton a/c units and a pool and two 50 gallon hot water tanks. I live in the hottest part of Texas. My electric bill is $500-600 per month in the summer and $200-300 in the winter. Cost is In between in the fall and spring. I use a lot of water too. My property taxes are 2.8% appraised. That’s a lot too.
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stocknoob4111
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by stocknoob4111 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:20 pm

sergeant wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:39 pm
You're getting some good advice and I do not want to bash Texas but 100 degrees in Dallas is quite different than 100 degrees in the IE. We have dry heat in California. Texas has humidity. Good luck in your move to Texas. I would rent.
yep, understood :) I have experienced it when I was in Miami. I'm assuming the humidity is a bit muted in Dallas compared to Houston. In any case I don't think anyone goes to TX for the good weather, many other things draw people there and they tolerate the weather. However, I think it's a whole lot better than the North East winters.

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stocknoob4111
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by stocknoob4111 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 pm

RlxDude wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:36 pm
Never will make the mistake of buying a house in Texas again, regardless of the amount of time I intend to live there. Texas is a great place to live, but my experience with buying real estate here has been horrible. My advice is rent for five years.
Yep, that is what I intend to do.. my plan is to rent for 5 years here and then move back to SoCal or San Diego to semi-retire, I work in tech so plan to do some remote freelance work to pay my bills at that time so as to not draw down my portfolio. After I have grown my portfolio to a point I would care less about COL.

livesoft
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by livesoft » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:39 pm

galving wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:47 am
stocknoob4111 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:32 am
What are the typical electricity costs for a small apartment there in the summer? I have got info anywhere from $130-250, that is quite a variation. Currently my electricity bill here in CA is $60/month in the peak months, I have all electric but no AC though, just running the fan. Utilities are dirt cheap here in CA.
Assume the AC runs more or less continuously from April - October at least along the very humid gulf coast area.
Last monthly electric bill was $176 for a 1900 sq ft house, AC setpoint at a comfortable albeit warmer 77F.
Total kWh is likely higher than typical because of the pool equipment.
I will give a different look at electricity. I live near Houston, TX in a 3300+ sq ft 4 br 3.5 ba 2-car garage home. I used to think it was a McMansion, but it isn't. We have 2 separate HVAC units, one for upstairs and one for downstairs. We don't have a pool but all our neighbors do. Our electric bill total for the past 12 months was $1138.30 or about $95 a month. Only during 5 months of the year are bills more than $100 a month. The Feb-Mar bills were about $40 each. The highest bill was $180. We do not have any electric cars nor any solar panels. Our home is kept below 78 deg F year-round.

If one has an apartment with electric bills of $130 to $250 a month, then I think one is probably paying too much.
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TxAg
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by TxAg » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:40 pm

stocknoob4111 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:20 pm
sergeant wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:39 pm
You're getting some good advice and I do not want to bash Texas but 100 degrees in Dallas is quite different than 100 degrees in the IE. We have dry heat in California. Texas has humidity. Good luck in your move to Texas. I would rent.
yep, understood :) I have experienced it when I was in Miami. I'm assuming the humidity is a bit muted in Dallas compared to Houston. In any case I don't think anyone goes to TX for the good weather, many other things draw people there and they tolerate the weather. However, I think it's a whole lot better than the North East winters.
Every now and again we luck out. March-May was awesome weather this year which was nice since we were forced to stay home and enjoy the yard.

October - December is good also.

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stocknoob4111
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by stocknoob4111 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:28 am

Quick q - if living in McKinney, what is the commute like to Frisco? I don't want to pay expensive tolls as well since I see toll roads all over the place in Dallas.

At the moment it is irrelevant since my company has indicated that it will be remote for a few more months but ultimately I will be in commuting.

Texgal17
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Texgal17 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:30 pm


Nice to see many fellow Texans here! I’m 2 hours from Dallas area. Originally from Minnesota and it’s nice to go back and visit but I will always live in Texas as I love it here! Low cost housing and I love the weather here. Good luck to you OP!
Texgal

birdy
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by birdy » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:10 pm

You need to purchase a Toll Tag for the toll roads. It is cheaper than they charge without one. We have toll roads which I drive frequently. You can mostly take surface roads if you want, but you will increase drive times due to backups on service roads from stop lights. I believe they want $40 to open the account then they bill your card on file when your account gets low. Use Zillow or similar to check the prices of particular neighborhoods to get an idea also. McKinney is not that far from Frisco (north from Frisco) but like I suggested earlier, drive your route in rush hour before you decide on a particular home (or at least use google maps for aprox drive times). Homes here are less expensive than California, Oregon, Washington State. I don't know how the property taxes compare. We also have no State sales tax, although we do have local sales taxes instead. I grew up in Vancouver/Battle Ground Washington where we had wet winters. I just got used to the heat in the same way as the rain! You can also avail yourself of your realtor to clue you in on questions--that's what they get paid for!

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by birdy » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:12 pm

Sorry. We have no State INCOME taxes.

birdy

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TxAg
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by TxAg » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:54 pm

stocknoob4111 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:28 am
Quick q - if living in McKinney, what is the commute like to Frisco? I don't want to pay expensive tolls as well since I see toll roads all over the place in Dallas.

At the moment it is irrelevant since my company has indicated that it will be remote for a few more months but ultimately I will be in commuting.
It will suck driving down 380

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Lalamimi
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Lalamimi » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:41 pm

gr7070 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:47 pm
birdy wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:18 pm
It is rare to find basements in this area because we have clay soil and rock.
birdy
Structural engineer here. The reason is because North Texas has a 6" frost line. Foundations need to be below the frost line to minimize vertical movement from freeze-thaw.

Since a foundation wall is already going down, say 6', up north they may as well go a little deeper and provide a basement doubling the square footage for not a ton more money.

It has nothing to do with clay soil. Rock could deter building a basement, because of the cost to excavate. But not in Texas, there's just no need for a deep foundation.

It's all based on cost.
Live in Houston. Always thought there are no homes with basements because they would flood!

BGeste
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BGeste » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:48 pm

Texas is a great state but the property taxes are terribly onerous. If you buy you will regret it. Rent!
Last edited by BGeste on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Bogle_Bro
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Bogle_Bro » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:50 pm

rightdecisions wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:17 pm
If job is in Frisco. Look for a place in Frisco for ease. All three cities are offer the same with a little difference.
Agreed. Frisco is nice, too. No reason to commute too far when your job is already in a suburb!

Texanbybirth
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Texanbybirth » Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:52 pm

To echo another poster, live close to work. If you’re renting, rent close to the office. The traffic, assuming things get back to normal, around where you’re working is just atrocious. Live close to work. Tolls can also be brutal, and not always save you much time. You get the privilege of paying $4 to sit in a parking lot.

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MindTheGAAP
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by MindTheGAAP » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:23 pm

Clueless wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:00 pm
Then again, you could just buy this...

https://www.kbtx.com/content/news/North ... 08601.html
My inlaws have this for their Yukon XL and I've used it with them before several times - it really does work. I can see some improvements that would help the design but outcome works -- and it inflates pretty quickly when the right sized vehicle is under the cover.
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gr7070
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by gr7070 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:55 am

Lalamimi wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:41 pm
gr7070 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:47 pm
birdy wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:18 pm
It is rare to find basements in this area because we have clay soil and rock.
birdy
Structural engineer here. The reason is because North Texas has a 6" frost line. Foundations need to be below the frost line to minimize vertical movement from freeze-thaw.

Since a foundation wall is already going down, say 6', up north they may as well go a little deeper and provide a basement doubling the square footage for not a ton more money.

It has nothing to do with clay soil. Rock could deter building a basement, because of the cost to excavate. But not in Texas, there's just no need for a deep foundation.

It's all based on cost.
Live in Houston. Always thought there are no homes with basements because they would flood!
That is a factor where there is a high water table that would cause common influx off water. Unsure what Houston's water table is. Of course flat, coastal areas will have a higher water table.

This is not the case in Dallas and other warm weather locales with a lower water table and no/little frost depth. It's simply the cost of digging an unnecessarily deep foundation and that upward construction is then cheaper for added square footage.

Surface flooding would not necessarily be a reason for this.

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:13 am

I have a few thoughts. I worked for a Texas based company for 8 years, going to Dallas for training and meetings a few times a year. I later worked for a Mass based company (me at the headquarters) who had a design center in Dallas.

Do you already have a job? My MA based company wanted to hire someone to do the same job I was doing, but based in Dallas. Why based in Dallas? Because they paid me $140k a year and hired someone in Dallas for $80k a year. So if you're looking for a new job, don't get sticker shock when you see how low salaries are compared to higher priced areas.

Electricity in CA and MA are about the same at 20 cents a kWHr all in with taxes and fees and graft and corruption charges. From what I've seen, they're half that in Texas.

Property tax rates are high in Texas, but you really need to compare house to house. If a 3 bedroom 1000 sq foot ranch on 1/4 acre (about 11,000 sq feet) costs $1M in San Jose with a rate of 0.5%, you're paying $5k a year. If that same house in Plano costs $200k with a rate of 2.5%, you're paying $5k a year. So property taxes will likely not phase you much if you compare them to what's in CA.

Dallas gets humid. And hot. No.....you don't want to discount this.
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alfaspider
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by alfaspider » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:15 am

gr7070 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:55 am
Lalamimi wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:41 pm
gr7070 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:47 pm
birdy wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:18 pm
It is rare to find basements in this area because we have clay soil and rock.
birdy
Structural engineer here. The reason is because North Texas has a 6" frost line. Foundations need to be below the frost line to minimize vertical movement from freeze-thaw.

Since a foundation wall is already going down, say 6', up north they may as well go a little deeper and provide a basement doubling the square footage for not a ton more money.

It has nothing to do with clay soil. Rock could deter building a basement, because of the cost to excavate. But not in Texas, there's just no need for a deep foundation.

It's all based on cost.
Live in Houston. Always thought there are no homes with basements because they would flood!
That is a factor where there is a high water table that would cause common influx off water. Unsure what Houston's water table is. Of course flat, coastal areas will have a higher water table.

This is not the case in Dallas and other warm weather locales with a lower water table and no/little frost depth. It's simply the cost of digging an unnecessarily deep foundation and that upward construction is then cheaper for added square footage.

Surface flooding would not necessarily be a reason for this.
There actually are a small handful of houses in Houston with basements. The high water table is not an insurmountable obstacle, but protecting against water intrusion adds to the cost. Ultimately, the main issue is that if you want to add space, it is cheaper to build up or out in Houston than to dig a basement. That's compounded by the fact that most local residential contractors have no experience with basements. As a result, almost nobody bothers to dig.

In areas that have deep frost lines, you might as well dig a basement because you already have to dig quite a ways to keep the foundation below the frost line. In those places, it's cheaper to dig an extra few feet to make a basement that it would be to dig up or out. For that reason, most houses are built with basements.
Last edited by alfaspider on Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

gr7070
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by gr7070 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:17 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:13 am
Dallas gets humid. And hot. No.....you don't want to discount this.
Just a minor clarification. Dallas has humidity - it is not a desert, dry heat. Dallas does not have the humidity of a Florida or Houston. Probably not even the humidity of the great lakes states.

One nice thing about Texas with no state income tax, but high real estate tax and not low sales tax is one gets to choose, to some degree, how much taxes they want to pay.

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by alfaspider » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:23 am

gr7070 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:17 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:13 am
Dallas gets humid. And hot. No.....you don't want to discount this.
Just a minor clarification. Dallas has humidity - it is not a desert, dry heat. Dallas does not have the humidity of a Florida or Houston. Probably not even the humidity of the great lakes states.

One nice thing about Texas with no state income tax, but high real estate tax and not low sales tax is one gets to choose, to some degree, how much taxes they want to pay.
Dallas has a bit less humidity than Houston, but temps can be higher. Dallas is often 5 degrees hotter than Houston (especially the parts of Houston near the coast). You also can't escape to Galveston, which is often 10 degrees cooler than Houston and less than an hour drive.

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by goodenyou » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:26 am

If you are highly compensated, lack of a (high) state income tax will dwarf everything. If you keep your expenses low (and you can still live comfortably in a safe area of Dallas), you will have a multiplier effect. In my field, I have not seen salaries for equivalent jobs at a 40% reduction in Texas. It may exist, but I have not met others who have had that experience. It is not a coincidence that many Californians are relocating to Texas. It's not for better weather or the better coastline, that's for sure.
Last edited by goodenyou on Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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gwe67
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by gwe67 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:30 am

Renters pay property taxes, which are passed on from landlord to tenant within the rent. And non-owner occupied properties are generally taxed at a higher rate. Therefore, property taxes are generally higher for renters than for property owners with a homestead exemption.
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BGeste
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BGeste » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:48 am

BGeste wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:48 pm
Texas is a great state but the property taxes are terribly onerous. If you buy you will regret it. Rent!

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gwe67
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by gwe67 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:04 am

Did you read my previous post? There is this fallacy that renters don't pay property taxes. They actually pay higher property taxes than homeowners.
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BGeste » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:23 am

gwe67 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:04 am
Did you read my previous post? There is this fallacy that renters don't pay property taxes. They actually pay higher property taxes than homeowners.
This is in fact not my personal experience. I sold my house (with very high property taxes) and I am now renting a similar home.

My rental payment per month is significantly less than what I was paying when I owned (mortgage + property tax + HOA + homeowners insurance + ongoing maintenance and repairs)

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by gr7070 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:34 am

BGeste wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:23 am
gwe67 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:04 am
Did you read my previous post? There is this fallacy that renters don't pay property taxes. They actually pay higher property taxes than homeowners.
This is in fact not my personal experience. I sold my house (with very high property taxes) and I am now renting a similar home.

My rental payment per month is significantly less than what I was paying when I owned (mortgage + property tax + HOA + homeowners insurance + ongoing maintenance and repairs)
gwe67 is absolutely correct.

Unless there owner is losing money. A renter is paying the property tax. It's that simple.

As they also stated, Texas, like many states, has a homestead exemption so property taxes for not-homeowners are higher for the exact same property.

BGeste, you are incorporating other factors "(mortgage + property tax + HOA + homeowners insurance + ongoing maintenance and repairs)" into it that may be misleading.

The facts gwe67 lays out are inescapable, unless the landlord is losing money on you as a renter.

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BGeste » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:10 pm

gr7070 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:34 am
BGeste wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:23 am
gwe67 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:04 am
Did you read my previous post? There is this fallacy that renters don't pay property taxes. They actually pay higher property taxes than homeowners.
This is in fact not my personal experience. I sold my house (with very high property taxes) and I am now renting a similar home.

My rental payment per month is significantly less than what I was paying when I owned (mortgage + property tax + HOA + homeowners insurance + ongoing maintenance and repairs)
gwe67 is absolutely correct.

Unless there owner is losing money. A renter is paying the property tax. It's that simple.

As they also stated, Texas, like many states, has a homestead exemption so property taxes for not-homeowners are higher for the exact same property.

BGeste, you are incorporating other factors "(mortgage + property tax + HOA + homeowners insurance + ongoing maintenance and repairs)" into it that may be misleading.

The facts gwe67 lays out are inescapable, unless the landlord is losing money on you as a renter.
The factors I am including are factors all homeowners in TX have to face. It is part of the equation. Property taxes and homeowners insurance in this state are sky high. Perhaps my landlord is losing money, but it is still a fact that my cost to rent a similar home is far less than owning.

BTW, all that equity I had in my house is earning a nice return in the market that far exceeds the price appreciation on my home over the last ten years.

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TxAg
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by TxAg » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:12 pm

The difference is that renting might mean you live in small apartment and buying might mean that you live in a large house. The small apmt guy is NOT paying the same amount of property taxes as the house guy.

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by gr7070 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:26 pm

BGeste wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:10 pm
gr7070 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:34 am
BGeste wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:23 am
gwe67 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:04 am
Did you read my previous post? There is this fallacy that renters don't pay property taxes. They actually pay higher property taxes than homeowners.
This is in fact not my personal experience. I sold my house (with very high property taxes) and I am now renting a similar home.

My rental payment per month is significantly less than what I was paying when I owned (mortgage + property tax + HOA + homeowners insurance + ongoing maintenance and repairs)
gwe67 is absolutely correct.

Unless there owner is losing money. A renter is paying the property tax. It's that simple.

As they also stated, Texas, like many states, has a homestead exemption so property taxes for not-homeowners are higher for the exact same property.

BGeste, you are incorporating other factors "(mortgage + property tax + HOA + homeowners insurance + ongoing maintenance and repairs)" into it that may be misleading.

The facts gwe67 lays out are inescapable, unless the landlord is losing money on you as a renter.
The factors I am including are factors all homeowners in TX have to face. It is part of the equation.
For starters that's simply false. Not all home owners have a mortgage. Even if they do those things are unique. You might have a big principal, long term, or differing rate, etc. You may have moved from one taxing jurisdiction to another. Insurance rates may be different for any number of reasons. On and on.

You are comparing a previous home to a current home, and comparing your total outlay for your residence expenses. Those things don't matter in the sole discussion of property taxes.

The simple fact, as stated by gwe67, is that property A has taxes of X*(1-Y) for a homesteader, and X for a landlord (X is greater than X*(1-Y)). Those greater property taxes a landlord pays than a residing owner are passed on to you the renter.

Your monthly costs for property B vs your property C are immaterial to this fact. If you homesteaded property B you would pay less property taxes for property B than if it's was rented out.

Again, this is an inescapable fact of Texas State law.

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by goodenyou » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:47 pm

It goes without saying that rent is inclusive of property taxes. However, many will rent homes at a break even or at a loss in a depressed market. Also, when you rent you have the ability to change your cost structure. You will be paying the county taxing authority forever as long as your name is on the deed. That “rent” never stops.
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Random Poster
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Random Poster » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:56 pm

BGeste wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:48 pm
Texas is a great state but the property taxes are terribly onerous. If you buy you will regret it. Rent!
Texas is not a low cost state.

I don’t know who created the myth that Texas is or why so many people (in Texas and elsewhere) seem to believe it, but It needs to be dispelled.

Property taxes here can be a killer, and they will never go down, partly due to reasons that cannot be discussed here.

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by gr7070 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:25 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:56 pm
BGeste wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:48 pm
Texas is a great state but the property taxes are terribly onerous. If you buy you will regret it. Rent!
Texas is not a low cost state.

I don’t know who created the myth that Texas is or why so many people (in Texas and elsewhere) seem to believe it
It commonly shows in the bottom half of cost of living index studies. Often in the 15-20 range.

If they're accurate that would reasonably qualify it as low, or at least below average.

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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Random Poster » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:22 pm

gr7070 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:25 pm
Random Poster wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:56 pm
BGeste wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:48 pm
Texas is a great state but the property taxes are terribly onerous. If you buy you will regret it. Rent!
Texas is not a low cost state.

I don’t know who created the myth that Texas is or why so many people (in Texas and elsewhere) seem to believe it
It commonly shows in the bottom half of cost of living index studies. Often in the 15-20 range.

If they're accurate that would reasonably qualify it as low, or at least below average.
The studies are wrong, in my experience.

Particularly for retirees (or early retirees), Texas is not where you (or, at least, I) want to be.

Do a full-on calculation, with a hypothetical $300k house, $65k in taxable income, spending $X amount a year on groceries and $Y on other yearly purchases, and run what the total tax bill would be in various places in Texas compared to other places in other States.

For me, everywhere I’ve calculated in Texas is in the top half in terms of costs. My last comparison was between Amarillo, Bentonville, Iowa City, Brookings SD, Bozeman MT (used a $350k house there, back when you could get such a thing), Colorado Springs ($350k house) Santa Fe (same), Manhattan KS, and Lawrence KS.

And it is mostly the high property taxes that drive up the overall tax bill.

And then throw in insurance costs, and, oh boy, the costs just keep going up.

BUBear29
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BUBear29 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:29 pm

I’m not sure about the locations mentioned above, but with experience living in Denver and now Dallas, Texas is about breakeven tax-wise (real estate only vs combo in Colorado) but groceries, housing, utilities, auto expenses (gas included) are all cheaper. My family and I live a much nicer life-style here than an in Colorado. Also, everyone says Dallas has no culture (which is true), but if we call culture people being much more friendly and the cities being more family friendly, then Texas has great culture (much better than I found in Colorado).
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

gr7070
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by gr7070 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:53 pm

Random Poster wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:22 pm
gr7070 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:25 pm
Random Poster wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:56 pm
BGeste wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:48 pm
Texas is a great state but the property taxes are terribly onerous. If you buy you will regret it. Rent!
Texas is not a low cost state.

I don’t know who created the myth that Texas is or why so many people (in Texas and elsewhere) seem to believe it
It commonly shows in the bottom half of cost of living index studies. Often in the 15-20 range.

If they're accurate that would reasonably qualify it as low, or at least below average.
The studies are wrong, in my experience.

Particularly for retirees (or early retirees), Texas is not where you (or, at least, I) want to be.

Do a full-on calculation, with a hypothetical $300k house, $65k in taxable income, spending $X amount a year on groceries and $Y on other yearly purchases, and run what the total tax bill would be in various places in Texas compared to other places in other States.

For me, everywhere I’ve calculated in Texas is in the top half in terms of costs. My last comparison was between Amarillo, Bentonville, Iowa City, Brookings SD, Bozeman MT (used a $350k house there, back when you could get such a thing), Colorado Springs ($350k house) Santa Fe (same), Manhattan KS, and Lawrence KS.

And it is mostly the high property taxes that drive up the overall tax bill.

And then throw in insurance costs, and, oh boy, the costs just keep going up.
For starters your anecdotal evidence of 1 is laughably immaterial vs. proper statistical studies. That's not just you. That's me and every other statistically insignificant sample size. That's not supposed to upset you or anyone. That's just simple science.

These studies do actual full on calculations thousands of time! Not your 1 time.

Specifically you're citing Iowa, Montana and Kansas as reasons why Texas is a high cost of living?! Seriously? That's laughably absurd. Those are other bottom half (if not bottom quartile?) expensive states to compare Texas to, with zero reasonably-sized metro areas. Wisconsin, of all places, laughs at those states!

Absurd.

You're right. Compared to Alabama and Mississippi Texas is crazy expensive. I can't fathom why everyone else doesn't see this!? /Sarcasm

BUBear29
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BUBear29 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:15 pm

BUBear29 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:29 pm
I’m not sure about the locations mentioned above, but with experience living in Denver and now Dallas, Texas is about breakeven tax-wise (real estate only vs combo in Colorado) but groceries, housing, utilities, auto expenses (gas included) are all cheaper. My family and I live a much nicer life-style here than an in Colorado. Also, everyone says Dallas has no culture (which is true), but if we call culture people being much more friendly and the cities being more family friendly, then Texas has great culture (much better than I found in Colorado).
Also, my insurance is only $3400/yr (2 cars, umbrella and house). I feel like that is relatively cheap.
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

hulburt1
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by hulburt1 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:21 pm

Sister lives in Tyler. Lived in Sac. cal. She loves it there. You can fly your flag and no one cares. This year 3 tornado :sharebeer , 5 copper heads and its 100 out side but you think your in a shower.

BUBear29
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BUBear29 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:23 pm

hulburt1 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:21 pm
Sister lives in Tyler. Lived in Sac. cal. She loves it there. You can fly your flag and no one cares. This year 3 tornado :sharebeer , 5 copper heads and its 100 out side but you think your in a shower.
Only 5?! Good year so far! ;)

I have a ranch near Tyler in a small town called Nacogdoches. Beautiful country out there with tall pines, and yes people are courteous and mind their own... a novel idea in today’s world.
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

Random Poster
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Random Poster » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:40 pm

gr7070 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:53 pm

For starters your anecdotal evidence of 1 is laughably immaterial vs. proper statistical studies. That's not just you. That's me and every other statistically insignificant sample size. That's not supposed to upset you or anyone. That's just simple science.

These studies do actual full on calculations thousands of time! Not your 1 time.

Specifically you're citing Iowa, Montana and Kansas as reasons why Texas is a high cost of living?! Seriously? That's laughably absurd. Those are other bottom half (if not bottom quartile?) expensive states to compare Texas to, with zero reasonably-sized metro areas. Wisconsin, of all places, laughs at those states!

Absurd.

You're right. Compared to Alabama and Mississippi Texas is crazy expensive. I can't fathom why everyone else doesn't see this!? /Sarcasm
Shrug. And sigh.

I am comparing specific cities within States, not States generally, using specific numbers and hypotheticals that matter to me.

Generalized studies, which is what I believe you are referring to, don’t provide accurate information to me. They might go you. Or to someone else. And that’s fine.

But even when I compare other cities in Texas to other cities of interest to me in other States, the city in Texas has never been the cheapest tax-wise.

But to the OP: there is no way I’d want to live in the Dallas area, and I’d certainly not want to buy a house there. The traffic alone would give me an early death, and the humidity isn’t much fun either—although it does always seem to me to be not quite as bad in Fort Worth. Odd what a few miles will get you, weather wise. If you do get a house in Dallas though, read up on the soils in the area, and make sure to get a thorough inspection of the house’s foundation.

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Hub
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Hub » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:21 am

I would buy in Frisco sub $500k. You’ll come out fine. It’s really a uniquely good school district etc.

bluegill
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by bluegill » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:51 am

I have lived in TX; Houston, San Antonio, Midland. If I was moving to TX, I would live in Austin or San Antonio. I would avoid Dallas. Dallas has ice storms, hot weather, and lots of traffic. I believe Austin gets preferencial treatment on State funding due to it being the capital. Austin is a young persons city. My daughter lives there. RE in Austin is high. Austin has around 40K or 60K students are U. of TX. My relatives have lived in Dallas for about 40 years. A couple times I've heard them say "I should have lived in Austin rather than Dallas". Austin is much prettier than Dallas.
Generally TX has very good roads. You can drive 70 MPH on the shoulders on road.

BUBear29
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BUBear29 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:36 am

bluegill wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:51 am
I have lived in TX; Houston, San Antonio, Midland. If I was moving to TX, I would live in Austin or San Antonio. I would avoid Dallas. Dallas has ice storms, hot weather, and lots of traffic. I believe Austin gets preferencial treatment on State funding due to it being the capital. Austin is a young persons city. My daughter lives there. RE in Austin is high. Austin has around 40K or 60K students are U. of TX. My relatives have lived in Dallas for about 40 years. A couple times I've heard them say "I should have lived in Austin rather than Dallas". Austin is much prettier than Dallas.
Generally TX has very good roads. You can drive 70 MPH on the shoulders on road.
I don’t disagree. When we moved to DFW we lived in Dallas proper and I hated it. We now live west of DFW (30 min to FW and 30 min to Dallas). More land, on the lake, tons of outdoor trails. Much better than Dallas. I personally would never live in Dallas, Mckinney, Frisco or Plano.
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

Topic Author
stocknoob4111
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by stocknoob4111 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:31 pm

BUBear29 wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:36 am
I personally would never live in Dallas, Mckinney, Frisco or Plano.
My job is in Frisco so have to live there...will make the best of it. It's not permanent so it's fine, I am targeting about 3 years until I almost FIRE then hope to see if I can work remotely from somewhere else :)

birdy
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by birdy » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:45 am

We have a TV series on PBS here called "The Daytripper". It showcases towns around Texas to visit and enjoy. There are two episodes you might be interested in: S11 : E12-----McKinney, TX S10 : E8-----Frisco, TX Thought you might try to find them watch!

birdy

joetro29
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by joetro29 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:27 pm

From Dallas - lived here 27/37 years. It’s getting a bad rap here. We have the largest contiguous arts district in the country!

evancox10
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by evancox10 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:09 pm

joetro29 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:27 pm
From Dallas - lived here 27/37 years. It’s getting a bad rap here. We have the largest contiguous arts district in the country!
I lived in Dallas for 8 years (left recently), and yes the “no culture” thing is way overblown. Dallas itself has a ton going on. Tons of museums/arts organizations doing innovative things (late-night block parties, light show that takes over downtown projected on all buildings etc.), symphony/opera/broadway plays, vibrant craft brewery scene, the list goes on and on depending on what you’re interested in. Not so much there on the nature side of things, though there are some pockets here and there if you can locate close to a lake. But nothing like you would get in a place like Colorado, etc.

Mind you I’m talking about the actual city of Dallas. I guess the no-culture stereotype comes from the umpteen-million people who reside in the burbs and don’t ever actually step foot in Dallas proper. Yes, your burbs have no culture, what did you expect? They’re pretty much the same all over the US. Endless houses mixed in with the occasional strip mall. I’m sure your neighbors will be more or less nice/friendly. More recently it seemed like Plano was developing a bit of character.

BUBear29
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by BUBear29 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:56 pm

I just returned home to DFW from a week in Breckenridge, CO....its hot.
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

pl28
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by pl28 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:22 pm

Our family moved from California to Dallas few years ago, one thing we didn't expect but was a problem for us is the pest problem, especially those Tiger mosquitoes, they are day biters and very aggressive. I would take that in consideration if you like the outdoors and want to live in a woody residential area.

Needtoknow
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Re: Question - Reloc to TX

Post by Needtoknow » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:05 am

I live in SoCal and Texas. I’ve lived in Mission Viejo about a six minute drive from the beach and seven minutes from work. My wife and I can afford SoCal and I love my 2500 sq.ft. home with pool. It’s a very attractive area. However, we never wanted to retire here, because we wanted a different environment for our young daughter in elementary school. I had an older child in the military who got out and ended up in Conroe near The Woodlands. I did some research. We stayed in Conroe with my daughter while visiting and really liked it. The summers are hot, lots of different types of bugs and snakes but we liked the smaller town environment. There’s more family recreational activities that the City sponsors. Activities are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper in Conroe than Mission Viejo for the exact same service and the quality is the same or better. We built a house here in 2014. My wife and daughter moved into it in 2016. My wife’s job is in Northern. Cal, but she works remotely. I still am in California working until June 2021. We are keeping our California income with us in Texas. My wife will still be working. I have a pension and I’ll have more money retired than working. For us, moving to Texas has been a financial plus. We have a larger home at 4000 sq.ft., no one commutes, and we have more space than one can imagine compared to So Cal. When I officially move to Texas next year we will recover more than $40,000 in state taxes. That’s a significant amount of money. My property taxes are 2.8% with the homestead. I put a muzzle on my wife’s pocketbook so we only spent $450,000 on our house. As a result, we aren’t paying super crazy taxes. Homeowners Insurance is more expensive but not that much because I have 1500 more square feet to protect. Just on gas alone, I’ll save lots of money. It would kill me to pay $1.69/gal in Texas and then go to Cali and pay $3.60/gal. Food at restaurants is cheaper. Going to the movies is even cheaper. My electric bill was expensive in SoCal with the pool and all. I don’t have a pool here but we have a community pool. My $785 ANNUAL HOA fee which has not increased in 5 years covers that and the basketball court, playgrounds, trails and community room. In California, that’s easily over $200/month and in some places well over $300/month.

I’ve been doing the numbers for almost 5 years and I’ve come out WAY AHEAD FINANCIALLY with my move to Texas. We love it. Because of COVID-19 I’ve been able to stay a significant amount of time without going back to California and it’s really nice. I know my neighbors. My little girl has friends, we are a part of the community. When the California house sells, that will be COLA and fun money not tied up in a house.

So to the OP, I would say to rent as you stated you would, but I would recommend you visit Austin, San Antonio, and Houston a few times each year to get a real sense of Texas. I don’t like EL Paso, but you can visit once there too.😀 They each have their own personality. You may like any of those Texas towns or you may want to go back to SoCal. Both have their pluses and minuses. Only you will know what works for you. When it’s all said and done, you should find that overall, it’s cheaper in Texas than SoCal. You get more for your money even with the property taxes.

One last thing, it takes getting used to the Tex-Mex food here. I hate warm green salsa. I like cold red salsa in California!😀

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