Capital One is at it again

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abc132
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

So you get a cash bonus for just the new money, giving new deposits a better rate?

How is that really different than investing new money at Capital One at the higher rate?

Isn't the old money getting screwed over?

It seems like Ally has a more streamlined process for the same thing.
02nz
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:37 pm So you get a cash bonus for just the new money, giving new deposits a better rate?

How is that really different than investing new money at Capital One at the higher rate?

Isn't the old money getting screwed over?

It seems like Ally has a more streamlined process for the same thing.
You really don't see the difference?

Ally kept the rates competitive for existing money, and the $250 promo for new money made for an effective 5.5% APY, well above market rate. It sent emails to existing customers so they could get it, too.

Capital One dropped the rates to an uncompetitive level for existing customers, didn't tell them about it, also didn't tell them about the new account. If they opened the new account, they got a competitive rate, but no better.

You've twisted yourself into quite a pretzel defending Capital One but have yet to articulate any advantage from the consumer's perspective for Capital One's online savings product.
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Ricchan
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Ricchan »

abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:23 pm Capital One is a company that provides great services, and that is why you invest in them. People go to Capital One because of the variety of products and services they provide.
I'm honestly curious, what variety of products and services do you see Capital One providing that are better than (or not offered by) other banks mentioned in this thread? I've read your post about your computer refund (props to Capital One for helping you with that, I think that's great), but what are the other "products and services" that set Capital One apart?

I generally don't look for much from banks other than good rates, low (aka zero) fees, and timely ACH (next day is nice). If there are additional products and services that are worth taking advantage of that I haven't been noticing, then maybe I'm missing out? I suppose promotional bonuses are also nice, but they seem a bit too random and erratic to use as an objective measure for comparison (or maybe I just don't pay enough attention.)
CFM300
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by CFM300 »

02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 pm You really don't see the difference?

Ally kept the rates competitive for existing money, and the $250 promo for new money made for an effective 5.5% APY, well above market rate. It sent emails to existing customers so they could get it, too.

Capital One dropped the rates to an uncompetitive level for existing customers, didn't tell them about it, also didn't tell them about the new account. If they opened the new account, they got a competitive rate, but no better.

You've twisted yourself into quite a pretzel defending Capital One but have yet to articulate any advantage from the consumer's perspective for Capital One's online savings product.
Yeoman's work right there. Thank you. :beer
02nz
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:28 pm Capital One had my back when a computer company sent me a computer that would get the blue screen of death.

It was beyond their 30 day return policy, and capital one used their muscle to get me every penny of that $8000 computer back. No restocking fee, nothing.

I couldn't be happier with my Capital One experience.

I can say that I have had other credit card companies change their due date, and perform all kinds of shady tricks.
Very nice for you, but has nothing to do with the topic - online savings accounts. These are big banks, and the credit card operations are totally separate from savings accounts, beyond maybe showing up under the same logon on their website.

Fine, if you felt Capital One did right by you, by all means support their other business. But plenty of 360 Savings customers probably wouldn't do the same, after they noticed what Capital One pulled.
Last edited by 02nz on Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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anon_investor
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by anon_investor »

02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 pm
abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:37 pm So you get a cash bonus for just the new money, giving new deposits a better rate?

How is that really different than investing new money at Capital One at the higher rate?

Isn't the old money getting screwed over?

It seems like Ally has a more streamlined process for the same thing.
You really don't see the difference?

Ally kept the rates competitive for existing money, and the $250 promo for new money made for an effective 5.5% APY, well above market rate. It sent emails to existing customers so they could get it, too.

Capital One dropped the rates to an uncompetitive level for existing customers, didn't tell them about it, also didn't tell them about the new account. If they opened the new account, they got a competitive rate, but no better.

You've twisted yourself into quite a pretzel defending Capital One but have yet to articulate any advantage from the consumer's perspective for Capital One's online savings product.
To add, Ally always sends an email before lowering their rate and reminds you about CDs to lock in current rates. Also Ally has no penalty CDs. The advance warning is nice, I have been opening unfunded no penalty CDs when I get the rate drop email. You have 10 days to fund and get the best rate during those 10 days, even if rates drop.

I have had Ally for years now and they don't play games like Capital One. I used to have a Capital One 360 Savings account before they made the interest rate trash and made the money market one pay more, sad too, I had that account from way back in the day when it was Electric Orange and then ING Direct. I am glad I closed my Capital One account, they were up to more tricks when they reduced their money market rate and created a new premium savings. Feels like a bait and switch.
boogiehead
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by boogiehead »

02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:19 pm
abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:54 pm
CFM300 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:13 pm
abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:23 pm Is Ally really only giving 0.5%?
1.10%

https://www.ally.com/bank/online-savings-account/
So
Capital One MM 0.8%
Ally MM 0.5%

Capital One Savings 1.0%
Ally Savings 1.1%

It looks like Ally is stealing from their MM customers much more than Capital One.
I can see how they can pay 1.1%.

I guess all those people upset at Capital One for the 0.2% difference are going to be really outraged at Ally for 3x as much stealing of their money in Allies money market account.
Ally has offered MM and Online Savings from the beginning. As has Capital One (MM and 360 Savings, inherited from the ING Direct days). MM accounts offer a debit card and check-writing, savings accounts do not.

What's slimy is that while 360 Savings used to be heavily promoted and had a competitive rate, Capital One created a whole new account, 360 Performance Savings, with competitive rates, and made the old accounts' rates uncompetitive (the older one gets 0.5% and the new one gets 1%). Unlike with MM, there's no discernible difference between 360 Savings and 360 Performance Savings, so there's zero reason for this except to screw over existing customers. And because they don't "spam" their customers as you call it (except, interestingly, when rates go up!), many customers don't know about this.
+1... I've been long time customer of both Ally and Capital One(ING) and I am sick of the way Capital One tries to pull a fast one on its loyal customers. I recall for the longest time I only had a performance savings account and reluctantly opened the MM account since they kept lowering the rate of the performance savings account.... now they pulling the same trick in making the MM account uncompetitive with other savings account and you have to open the "enhanced savings account" to get a competitive rate compared to other online banks. This sounds like the stuff Wells Fargo did in claiming that they been having a bunch of "new accounts".

Since Capital One likes to play games... I've decided I will be closing all my accounts with them once my CDs mature and thanks to OP for giving everyone a heads up as others mention Capital One purposely does not send notices on all these changes they make behind the scenes to screw over their current customers.
abc132
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 pm
abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:37 pm So you get a cash bonus for just the new money, giving new deposits a better rate?

How is that really different than investing new money at Capital One at the higher rate?

Isn't the old money getting screwed over?

It seems like Ally has a more streamlined process for the same thing.
You really don't see the difference?

Ally kept the rates competitive for existing money, and the $250 promo for new money made for an effective 5.5% APY, well above market rate. It sent emails to existing customers so they could get it, too.

Capital One dropped the rates to an uncompetitive level for existing customers, didn't tell them about it, also didn't tell them about the new account. If they opened the new account, they got a competitive rate, but no better.

You've twisted yourself into quite a pretzel defending Capital One but have yet to articulate any advantage from the consumer's perspective for Capital One's online savings product.
Oh, I see the difference.

I'm looking for why the comments rose to the level of Capital One being slimy or sleazy instead of a rational discussion of why they prefer Ally.

I'm pointing out the similarities that refute some of the angry posters in the thread claiming dishonesty.
- Both companies offer substantially different rates between the money market and the savings
- Both companies routinely offer better rates to new money

I can see why one would want better advertising for higher rates, and why any bank would want to offer a higher rate and do this advertising when they have the capacity to loan out that new money. It's in their own self interest to do so.

I can see why having the rate displayed prominently is important to someone that wants to shop for best rate, and has no problem moving from company to company.

I can see why people might prefer a company with historically higher rates.


I don't see how any of this preferences rise to the level of slimy or sleazy or the other misrepresentations in this thread.

I'm happy to utilize Capital One if I have one less account to check, manage, and deal with.

They already saved me $8000.
Last edited by abc132 on Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
02nz
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:25 am
02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 pm
abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:37 pm So you get a cash bonus for just the new money, giving new deposits a better rate?

How is that really different than investing new money at Capital One at the higher rate?

Isn't the old money getting screwed over?

It seems like Ally has a more streamlined process for the same thing.
You really don't see the difference?

Ally kept the rates competitive for existing money, and the $250 promo for new money made for an effective 5.5% APY, well above market rate. It sent emails to existing customers so they could get it, too.

Capital One dropped the rates to an uncompetitive level for existing customers, didn't tell them about it, also didn't tell them about the new account. If they opened the new account, they got a competitive rate, but no better.

You've twisted yourself into quite a pretzel defending Capital One but have yet to articulate any advantage from the consumer's perspective for Capital One's online savings product.
Oh, I see the difference.

I'm looking for why the comments rose to the level of Capital One being fraudulent instead of a rational discussion of why they prefer Ally.

I'm pointing out the similarities that refute some of the angry posters in the thread claiming dishonesty.
- Both companies offer substantially different rates between the money market and the savings
- Both companies routinely offer better rates to new money

I can see why one would want better advertising for higher rates, and why any bank would want to offer a higher rate and do this advertising when they have the capacity to loan out that new money. It's in their own self interest to do so.

I can see why having the rate displayed prominently is important to someone that wants to shop for best rate, and has no problem moving from company to company.

I can see why people might prefer a company with historically higher rates.


I don't see how any of this preferences rise to the level of fraud or stealing or the other misrepresentations in this thread.
Stop. Now you're just putting words in other people's mouths. Nobody accused Capital One of fraud. The word doesn't even appear in this thread until your post just now. I said "slimy," nisiprius said "sleazy," and apparently lots of others agree. That's not remotely the same as fraud, which is illegal.
abc132
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

02nz wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:30 am
abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:25 am
02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 pm
abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:37 pm So you get a cash bonus for just the new money, giving new deposits a better rate?

How is that really different than investing new money at Capital One at the higher rate?

Isn't the old money getting screwed over?

It seems like Ally has a more streamlined process for the same thing.
You really don't see the difference?

Ally kept the rates competitive for existing money, and the $250 promo for new money made for an effective 5.5% APY, well above market rate. It sent emails to existing customers so they could get it, too.

Capital One dropped the rates to an uncompetitive level for existing customers, didn't tell them about it, also didn't tell them about the new account. If they opened the new account, they got a competitive rate, but no better.

You've twisted yourself into quite a pretzel defending Capital One but have yet to articulate any advantage from the consumer's perspective for Capital One's online savings product.
Oh, I see the difference.

I'm looking for why the comments rose to the level of Capital One being fraudulent instead of a rational discussion of why they prefer Ally.

I'm pointing out the similarities that refute some of the angry posters in the thread claiming dishonesty.
- Both companies offer substantially different rates between the money market and the savings
- Both companies routinely offer better rates to new money

I can see why one would want better advertising for higher rates, and why any bank would want to offer a higher rate and do this advertising when they have the capacity to loan out that new money. It's in their own self interest to do so.

I can see why having the rate displayed prominently is important to someone that wants to shop for best rate, and has no problem moving from company to company.

I can see why people might prefer a company with historically higher rates.


I don't see how any of this preferences rise to the level of fraud or stealing or the other misrepresentations in this thread.
Stop. Now you're just putting words in other people's mouths. Nobody accused Capital One of fraud. The word doesn't even appear in this thread until your post just now. I said "slimy," nisiprius said "sleazy," and apparently lots of others agree. That's not remotely the same as fraud, which is illegal.
I answered your questions.

Substitute slimy, sleazy, and whatever other word you saw and reread my post.

I'll even edit it for you.

Oddly, others agreed with me that it wasn't slimy or sleazy.

I answered your questions quite clearly, and ignoring the substance of the response is a form of misrepresentation in and of itself.
mortfree
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by mortfree »

It’s annoying what CapOne does with the account types lately.

Long time ING account holder.

Converted to the CapOne Savings ($0.03 balance) when they acquired ING

Reluctantly switched to the Money Market when that came out (50k balance) a few years ago.

Not bothering with the performance savings account given the 0.2 difference for now.

I kept the savings account because that is linked to other outside accounts. So they can “manage” that account with my $0.03 balance too since they probably wouldn’t consolidate them if I asked.
Momus
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Momus »

I just sold put for 4.2% premium pay out for 2 months period. If the stock drops, I'll be super happy owning it for 5-10 yrs. Better than any savings account out there.
Momus
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Momus »

boogiehead wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:10 am
02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:19 pm
abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:54 pm
CFM300 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:13 pm
abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:23 pm Is Ally really only giving 0.5%?
1.10%

https://www.ally.com/bank/online-savings-account/
So
Capital One MM 0.8%
Ally MM 0.5%

Capital One Savings 1.0%
Ally Savings 1.1%

It looks like Ally is stealing from their MM customers much more than Capital One.
I can see how they can pay 1.1%.

I guess all those people upset at Capital One for the 0.2% difference are going to be really outraged at Ally for 3x as much stealing of their money in Allies money market account.
Ally has offered MM and Online Savings from the beginning. As has Capital One (MM and 360 Savings, inherited from the ING Direct days). MM accounts offer a debit card and check-writing, savings accounts do not.

What's slimy is that while 360 Savings used to be heavily promoted and had a competitive rate, Capital One created a whole new account, 360 Performance Savings, with competitive rates, and made the old accounts' rates uncompetitive (the older one gets 0.5% and the new one gets 1%). Unlike with MM, there's no discernible difference between 360 Savings and 360 Performance Savings, so there's zero reason for this except to screw over existing customers. And because they don't "spam" their customers as you call it (except, interestingly, when rates go up!), many customers don't know about this.
+1... I've been long time customer of both Ally and Capital One(ING) and I am sick of the way Capital One tries to pull a fast one on its loyal customers. I recall for the longest time I only had a performance savings account and reluctantly opened the MM account since they kept lowering the rate of the performance savings account.... now they pulling the same trick in making the MM account uncompetitive with other savings account and you have to open the "enhanced savings account" to get a competitive rate compared to other online banks. This sounds like the stuff Wells Fargo did in claiming that they been having a bunch of "new accounts".

Since Capital One likes to play games... I've decided I will be closing all my accounts with them once my CDs mature and thanks to OP for giving everyone a heads up as others mention Capital One purposely does not send notices on all these changes they make behind the scenes to screw over their current customers.
I'm up for bid all the time. Loyalty means nothing. Whoever gives me a consistently high rate on cash, that's where I'll go. It happens to be ally a lot of times.
sycamore
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by sycamore »

Momus wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:45 am ...I'm up for bid all the time. Loyalty means nothing. Whoever gives me a consistently high rate on cash, that's where I'll go. It happens to be ally a lot of times.
+1. Maybe loyalty should count for something but in any case I'm shopping around for best rates.

I don't count on Capital One to actively inform me of their rates, although if they did so (like Ally) that would be nice. My credit union doesn't do such things either.
McDougal
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by McDougal »

Hey, someone has to pay those movie stars to make the Capital One commercials, don't they?
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anon_investor
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by anon_investor »

People can defend Capital One all they want. I was sick of their game of dropping interest rates on existing account types (at a time when all other banks were raising rates) and making a new account type with market rates; and not telling existing customers. Nothing illegal but it felt sleazy to me. I voted with my feet and closed my account. I have been an Ally customer for years, no complaints.
reln
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by reln »

JD2775 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:21 pm Just noticed....MM account interest went from 1.3% to 0.8 %. I have been with them for a lonnnng time and hesitate to move anywhere, but this is kind of ridiculous. Seems like not too long ago it was 2.4%. Maybe this drop is standard though in these times, across all banks
My checking has gone from 3.05% to 1.50%.
JackoC
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by JackoC »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:15 am Otherwise, Redneck Bank tends to stay near to top at 1.35% up to $50k.
Changes to 1.10% 6/22 per their site. As mentioned, most banks don't give any prior notice of rate reductions so that's something. But I get it that the main complaint about Cap 1 isn't rate reductions or notice of them per se, but when they introduce new account types and make your type the lower rate one, as CIT at least has also done. You have to look a little more carefully on depositaccounts.com etc to catch that.

But again Cap 1 has had some good existing customer promotions. I got $1,000 for depositing new $150k in Performance Savings from Dec-Mar, now working on $450 for $50k May-Aug, and $300 for $10k new spend on existing Quicksilver CC early this year. I plan to keep Cap 1 accounts open, on the lookout for more existing customer bonuses. Although I'll have basically $0 in Performance Savings otherwise, as long as anybody else is paying >1% which various people still are, and only 'life support' charges on Quicksilver when BOA PR/CR's pay 2.625%-5.25% back v only 1.5%.
abc132
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

Ya, I went to the store an they had Coke 12 packs on sale. Less than half the price of a 24 pack, which was different than the last time I went shopping

Very sleazy to mix up the best price to entice new customers, and I am glad I will never buy their product.

Even worse, I also saw Coke raise their price while Pepsi was on sale.

People will defend Coke, but I'm glad I switched to Pepsi.


--> This should sound ridiculous. It is.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but I think we should be careful about throwing around words that imply bad motives.

It should be enough to say why you prefer Ally without assigning bad motives.

The example above should make that clear.


Please at least take a look at US Money Market Rates before throwing shade. Your money market rates should be going down, and significantly.

https://www.economy.com/united-states/money-market-rate
CFM300
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by CFM300 »

abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:30 am --> This should sound ridiculous.
It does. That's a terrible analogy. But I'll give it a C for effort.
CFM300
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by CFM300 »

abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:30 am Please at least take a look at US Money Market Rates before throwing shade. Your money market rates should be going down, and significantly.
Again, that's not what people are complaining about. But you know that already.
02nz
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:30 am We are all entitled to our own opinions, but I think we should be careful about throwing around words that imply bad motives.

It should be enough to say why you prefer Ally without assigning bad motives.
Yes, we are all entitled to our own opinions, so I'm puzzled why you get so defensive about my opinion about some giant bank's business practices. My opinion is that Capital One's games with account types are sleazy and slimy. That opinion is based on facts laid out in this thread. You are welcome to characterize Capital One's practices differently. You are welcome to correct facts if they are wrong (you haven't). You are welcome to explain why Capital One's product is better for consumers (you haven't).
02nz
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

CFM300 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:00 am
abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:30 am --> This should sound ridiculous.
It does. That's a terrible analogy. But I'll give it a C for effort.
Grade inflation these days ... :D
abc132
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

02nz wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:23 am
abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:30 am We are all entitled to our own opinions, but I think we should be careful about throwing around words that imply bad motives.

It should be enough to say why you prefer Ally without assigning bad motives.
Yes, we are all entitled to our own opinions, so I'm puzzled why you get so defensive about my opinion about some giant bank's business practices. My opinion is that Capital One's games with account types are sleazy and slimy. That opinion is based on facts laid out in this thread. You are welcome to characterize Capital One's practices differently. You are welcome to correct facts if they are wrong (you haven't). You are welcome to explain why Capital One's product is better for consumers (you haven't).
I have established the following:

- Money Market rates have gone down very significantly. It is no surprise that they have dropped. Some people have complained for EXACTLY that reason, despite you trying to make a different suggestion. You can stop adopting every complaint to be equal to yours, they differ.

- All the companies mentioned here offer better rates to new money. Some people here complained about new money getting a higher rate, without adopting your exact preference.

I'm not interested in establishing what is best for all customers, because we all have different wants and needs. I am personally happy with Capital One, and I would prefer not to suggest Ally is sleazy for only giving 0.5% money market rates, and 3x the money market vs savings spread of Capital One. I don't see how such suggestions are actionable, nor have I seen any evidence of an proof whatsoever of motive. I do have my opinion of someone that asks for a response, gets it, and completely ignores it. It wouldn't be actionable, nor appropriate, to share it here.

I'm telling you that the sleazy & slimy suggestions are not appreciated, not actionable, and I fully expect you to ignore the response that such characterizations are offensive to me. This is a company that had my back, and saved me $8,000. I'm asking those here to formulate their opinion in an actionable and less motive-seeking form, in the spirit of the intent of these forums.

Please and Thank You to those willing to be considerate of others.
Rainmaker41
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Rainmaker41 »

boogiehead wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:10 am +1... I've been long time customer of both Ally and Capital One(ING) and I am sick of the way Capital One tries to pull a fast one on its loyal customers. I recall for the longest time I only had a performance savings account and reluctantly opened the MM account since they kept lowering the rate of the performance savings account.... now they pulling the same trick in making the MM account uncompetitive with other savings account and you have to open the "enhanced savings account" to get a competitive rate compared to other online banks. This sounds like the stuff Wells Fargo did in claiming that they been having a bunch of "new accounts".

Since Capital One likes to play games... I've decided I will be closing all my accounts with them once my CDs mature and thanks to OP for giving everyone a heads up as others mention Capital One purposely does not send notices on all these changes they make behind the scenes to screw over their current customers.
This made me quickly check to see if Capital One had lowered the "performance savings account" rate but introduced a new "enhanced savings account" with a somewhat better rate that I would need to switch to. I see that this was just a figure of speech, but completely plausible sadly. :P

I prefer Ally and use that for most purposes, but also have some cash at Capital One for branch access.
Last edited by Rainmaker41 on Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
JLJL
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by JLJL »

CFM300 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:05 am
02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 pm You really don't see the difference?

Ally kept the rates competitive for existing money, and the $250 promo for new money made for an effective 5.5% APY, well above market rate. It sent emails to existing customers so they could get it, too.

Capital One dropped the rates to an uncompetitive level for existing customers, didn't tell them about it, also didn't tell them about the new account. If they opened the new account, they got a competitive rate, but no better.

You've twisted yourself into quite a pretzel defending Capital One but have yet to articulate any advantage from the consumer's perspective for Capital One's online savings product.
Yeoman's work right there. Thank you. :beer
+1
JLJL
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by JLJL »

livesoft wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:27 pm I don't think Capital One is in the business of Rose Gardens.
They are a bank making money and they're juicing their money making by being opaque and underhanded. I'm not clutching my pearls in shock, but it does piss me off and I'm glad the forum has highlighted it.

Bogle/Vanguard diehards flocking to the honest and transparent providers. I don't think it's excusable what they do so despite the convenience I guess I'm going to work my way out.
02nz
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

Rainmaker41 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:34 am This made me quickly check to see if Capital One had lowered the "performance savings account" rate but introduced a new "enhanced savings account" with a somewhat better rate that I would need to switch to. I see that this was just a figure of speech, but completely plausible sadly. :P
I predict it will be called "Performance-Enhancing Savings Account"! :wink:
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed several contentious off-topic posts. The discussion was derailed. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
This is a moderated forum. We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.

...Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.
The points regarding corporate reputation have been made, let's move on.
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Kevin M
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Kevin M »

abc132 wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:22 pm
02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:19 pm Ally MM has never been higher than their savings. Capital One plays games where they change around which account type pays more.

But the rates keep falling for everyone. I just open no penalty CDs at Ally Bank.

That's a fair point if true, anyone have a graph?

Ally MM vs time
Ally Savings vs time

Capital One MM vs time
Capital One Savings vs time

It would be interesting to look for a logical explanation for any differences.
You can get a certain amount of history for three out of four of them at DepositAccounts.

Ally Bank MMA:

Image

Ally Bank HY savings:

Image

Capital One 360 Performance Savings (much less history, so can't compare to Ally chart directly):

Image

For some reason, DA does not seem to provide info for Capital One MMA. However, they do for "IRA Savings", which I suspect is same or similar to MMA, noting the current rate (note that there is more history than for 360 savings):

Image

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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

Kevin M wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:15 pm You can get a certain amount of history for three out of four of them at DepositAccounts.
The one that has people worked up isn't any of those, but of the "old" 360 Savings. That used to have a competitive rate but became uncompetitive when Capital One created Performance Savings. I looked but didn't see a rate history on DepositAccounts.

ETA: Here's a Reddit post from the beginning of this year, alerting people that the old Savings account went down to 0.6% while performance Savings was at 1.7%, which was a competitive HYSA rate back then. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinanc ... _accounts/
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Kevin M »

02nz wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:21 pm
Kevin M wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:15 pm You can get a certain amount of history for three out of four of them at DepositAccounts.
The one that has people worked up isn't any of those, but of the "old" 360 Savings. That used to have a competitive rate but became uncompetitive when Capital One created Performance Savings. I looked but didn't see a rate history on DepositAccounts.
I only used Capital One savings a few years ago to get a bonus, so didn't read the thread carefully enough to know the exact status of things, but here's what Capital One currently shows as available on this web page:

Image

So did they stop offering the "old" 360 Savings, or do they just not make it visible on this page?

I also note that they don't show a MMA on this page, so it appears they aren't very interested in customers knowing about that either.

What they show is consistent with what DA offers rate histories for.

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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by caffeperfavore »

Yet another former ING savings account customer here. If you weren't part of ING you might not understand why some of us are so irritated. The initial attraction to ING was that they always offered among the best rates, in fact they almost seemed to be aggressively trying to maximize your earnings. Everything about ING was so easy and a breath of fresh air, including their smartly designed website. It was a really good thing.

Now Capital One has broken it and everything about the experience has gotten worse, drop by drop. Instead of having the ING experience we signed on for, we're now treated to the usual corporate bloodsucker bank BS. So yeah, I'll finally be switching to someone better as I've finally had it with them. Inertia and just having better things to do with my time have kept me there too long.

Tl;dr: stay away from Cap One.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

Kevin M wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:36 pm
02nz wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:21 pm
Kevin M wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:15 pm You can get a certain amount of history for three out of four of them at DepositAccounts.
The one that has people worked up isn't any of those, but of the "old" 360 Savings. That used to have a competitive rate but became uncompetitive when Capital One created Performance Savings. I looked but didn't see a rate history on DepositAccounts.
I only used Capital One savings a few years ago to get a bonus, so didn't read the thread carefully enough to know the exact status of things, but here's what Capital One currently shows as available on this web page:

Image

So did they stop offering the "old" 360 Savings, or do they just not make it visible on this page?

I also note that they don't show a MMA on this page, so it appears they aren't very interested in customers knowing about that either.

What they show is consistent with what DA offers rate histories for.

Kevin
I don't know if technically you can still open the old 360 Savings account (there would be no reason to), but it's definitely well-hidden on the website. The current interest rate is 0.5% APY, per disclosures: https://www.capitalone.com/bank/savings ... sclosures/
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by JBTX »

JackoC wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:35 am
02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am
JackoC wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:50 am
02nz wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:07 pm
System1 wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:46 pm You have to switch over to their new "Performance" savings accounts for the best rate, the MM is no longer the best. Although this rate is not particularly high, 1.0 today. I moved mine 6 months ago or so.
Ally and Marcus don’t pull this slimy trick. And they tend to make promos available to existing customers as well. Two reasons I don’t keep any money with Capital One.
I don't see the slimy trick particularly. The MM account was highest at some point but not for awhile. As to promotions, there was at least till very recently a $450 bonus for existing Performance Savings accounts if you put in $50k for 3 months, check out if it's still going. It was $500 for new customers. I have $50k at work May-August to get that one. It's a bit of a downer they've so far lowered the rate from 1.3% to 1% whereas two of my other HYSA's were in the 1.30's then, and so far still are. But still worth it for the bonus, account to be drained once the bonus posts unless Cap 1 is best rate by then. But Cap 1 hasn't been tops on rates recently. The periodic existing customer bonuses are the reason to maintain accounts with them. This will be the second bonus I've gotten for keeping $50k for 3 months in Performance Savings in less than a year.
MM account was highest until they created they "new" Performance Savings account. Since then MM account has always had a worse rate. Many (probably most) existing customers don't pay close attention to this stuff and so didn't switch, so this was an easy way for Capital One to pay less interest to most of them. I'm not aware of any real difference between MM and Performance Savings - they could easily have converted everyone or given MM accounts the same rate. That's what I find slimy.

As for promos - the existing customers are targeted and I was not. Ally and Marcus offers are generally open to all to enroll.
I think the recent bonus offers from Cap 1 were both existing and new; but maybe ads not sent to all existing. As to similar accounts with different names/rates and they don't specifically tell you to switch to the highest I guess I can see not liking that. CIT has done that too. But I'm highly rate/bonus driven. Ally's 11 mo no-penalty CD 1.50% was best recently, and I got it. Otherwise they aren't top so I have nothing else with them. Marcus has never been top than I can remember so I've never opened an account. Again I have $50k in Cap 1 Performance Savings because they'll give my $450 after 3 months, money coming out as soon as they pay the bonus. Besides the Ally NPCD, we have serious savings account balances with SFGI (1.36%) and Live Oak (1.35%). I don' t mind having dormant savings accounts to start back up again if they have the best rate or an existing customer bonus. My Ally account was sleeping a couple of yrs till they recently had that CD offer.
$450k bonus still exists for existing targeted customers through June. I just moved $50k back into cap one 360mm today. I'll give up 0.2% return for the $450 over 3 months.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

Kevin M wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:15 pm Kevin
Thank you Kevin. Glad to have your input.

Here are the Capital One Money Market Rates (rounding or math error possible):

2.00% Jun-19
2.00% Jul-19
2.00% Aug-19
1.95% Sep-19
1.90% Oct-19
1.79% Nov-19
1.53% Dec-19
1.50% Jan-20
1.50% Feb-20
1.40% Mar-20
1.30% Apr-20
1.21% May-20
0.80% Jun-20

The Capital One Money Market seems to track their Savings Rates pretty closely, and seem to have much higher value than the Ally Money Market. Both (CapOne MM vs CapOne Savings) were 1.95% in Sept 2019 and both were 1.2% in May 2020, tracking almost perfectly.

June 2020 appears to be the first time the money market dropped more. Looking at national money market averages, it seems reasonable to me, at least in the short term.
Last edited by abc132 on Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:33 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Mudpuppy »

Kevin M wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:36 pm So did they stop offering the "old" 360 Savings, or do they just not make it visible on this page?

I also note that they don't show a MMA on this page, so it appears they aren't very interested in customers knowing about that either.

What they show is consistent with what DA offers rate histories for.
Those are the accounts available to new customers, i.e. accounts that can be opened today. Let's call these "current account types". Existing customers can have older account types, which have varying rates, and they are not automatically converted to the new account types when those are created. When one goes to the rate disclosure pages for those older account types, the older account types typically have lower rates than the current account types.

So the crux of the primary complaint in this thread is that CO has historically created new account types, does not convert old account types to the newer account type, then slowly (and silently, unless you track the account disclosure pages as many of us do) lowers the rates on the old account types in comparison to the current account types. If you are an existing customer who does not track such things, you won't realize you're receiving a lower rate than new customers.

Personally, I have inertia and I haven't converted my CO 360 MM account over to a CO 360 Performance Savings yet just to chase that 0.2%. I'd rather spend my time chasing new account bonuses, which is the only reason I have the CO 360 account to begin with. So I'm planning to transfer some of the CO 360 MM money to Citibank to get the offer I have with my Double Cash card. Maybe later I'll work on a Chase bonus (although I hate the bonuses that involve direct deposit, because fundamentally I'm lazy when it comes to such things).
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

Info updated in above post.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Mudpuppy »

abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:34 pm Info updated in above post.
FYI, there was a brief period of time in late May/early June where the 360MM had a 1.0% rate. I didn't record the specific time period though.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by anon_investor »

caffeperfavore wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:41 pm Yet another former ING savings account customer here. If you weren't part of ING you might not understand why some of us are so irritated. The initial attraction to ING was that they always offered among the best rates, in fact they almost seemed to be aggressively trying to maximize your earnings. Everything about ING was so easy and a breath of fresh air, including their smartly designed website. It was a really good thing.

Now Capital One has broken it and everything about the experience has gotten worse, drop by drop. Instead of having the ING experience we signed on for, we're now treated to the usual corporate bloodsucker bank BS. So yeah, I'll finally be switching to someone better as I've finally had it with them. Inertia and just having better things to do with my time have kept me there too long.

Tl;dr: stay away from Cap One.
+1 Amen. Last year instead of opening a new Capital One premium or whatever they call it account to get a market rate, I closed my Capital One 360 savings account and moved all my money to my existing Ally Savings account. Electric Orange and then ING Direct were a lot better than Capital One.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

Mudpuppy wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:35 pm
abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:34 pm Info updated in above post.
FYI, there was a brief period of time in late May/early June where the 360MM had a 1.0% rate. I didn't record the specific time period though.
Thanks.

My guess would be that CapOne makes money on them with slightly different investments, so that there can be subtle differences.

Ally handles their MM and savings much more differently from each other, so I think differences should be expected.

I don't see savings winning and MM losing in the short term as anything untoward, as someone at CapOne is winning, and without the sale of a new product.

It will be interesting to see if/when they offer a new product.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by CFM300 »

abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:18 pm Here are the Capital One Money Market Rates (rounding or math error possible):

2.00% Jun-19
2.00% Jul-19
2.00% Aug-19
1.95% Sep-19
1.90% Oct-19
1.79% Nov-19
1.53% Dec-19
1.50% Jan-20
1.50% Feb-20
1.40% Mar-20
1.30% Apr-20
1.21% May-20
0.80% Jun-20

The Capital One Money Market seems to track their Savings Rates pretty closely, and seem to have much higher value than the Ally Money Market. Both (CapOne MM vs CapOne Savings) were 1.95% in Sept 2019 and both were 1.2% in May 2020, tracking almost perfectly.

June 2020 appears to be the first time the money market dropped more. Looking at national money market averages, it seems reasonable to me, at least in the short term.
Where did you get those numbers? They're not accurate. Not even close. I'm basing this on my actual statements.

Earlier in this thread, Mudpuppy posted a link where you can see the current Capital One Money Market rates. Here it is again:

https://www.capitalone.com/bank/savings ... sclosures/

Note the date in the upper right: April 27, 2020.

The listed rates are:

0.50% for balance < $10K
0.80% for balance > $10K

Yet your table above lists 1.30% for April and 1.21% for May.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:18 pm
Kevin M wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:15 pm Kevin
Thank you Kevin. Glad to have your input.

Here are the Capital One Money Market Rates (rounding or math error possible):

2.00% Jun-19
2.00% Jul-19
2.00% Aug-19
1.95% Sep-19
1.90% Oct-19
1.79% Nov-19
1.53% Dec-19
1.50% Jan-20
1.50% Feb-20
1.40% Mar-20
1.30% Apr-20
1.21% May-20
0.80% Jun-20

The Capital One Money Market seems to track their Savings Rates pretty closely, and seem to have much higher value than the Ally Money Market. Both (CapOne MM vs CapOne Savings) were 1.95% in Sept 2019 and both were 1.2% in May 2020, tracking almost perfectly.

June 2020 appears to be the first time the money market dropped more. Looking at national money market averages, it seems reasonable to me, at least in the short term.
I don't know if those Money Market figures are correct, but it's a red herring. The point is they made rates on the 360 Savings account uncompetitive, and only new 360 Performance Savings accounts got a competitive rate.
Last edited by 02nz on Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by iamlucky13 »

JackoC wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:35 am
02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am
JackoC wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:50 amAThe periodic existing customer bonuses are the reason to maintain accounts with them. This will be the second bonus I've gotten for keeping $50k for 3 months in Performance Savings in less than a year.
As for promos - the existing customers are targeted and I was not. Ally and Marcus offers are generally open to all to enroll.
I think the recent bonus offers from Cap 1 were both existing and new; but maybe ads not sent to all existing.
I've been a customer since it was ING. I think back then I received a $50 promotion for joining.

Ever since then, every promotion I have been aware of has excluded me. That is perfectly fine with me, as long as the rate is good. In fact, I prefer a consistently good rate over a moderate rate with occassional promotions.

When CapitalOne bought ING's US accounts, they changed my money market account into lower paying savings without notifying me.

When the Performance accounts were introduced, they never gave clear info that would have informed me whether to switch. They just quietly lowered the money market rate and left it for us to figure out on our own that the plan was apparently to keep the money market account deliberately sub-par.

I would like to believe it's a good bank to do business with, and perhaps they are for new customers, but the message they keep sending me is they don't want long term customers. It's probably long past time for me to just believe them.
abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:30 am Ya, I went to the store an they had Coke 12 packs on sale. Less than half the price of a 24 pack, which was different than the last time I went shopping
That's not a very well-matched analogy.

Last time I did indeed buy a 24 pack of coke.

Then they started putting 12 packs on sale for less than half the price of the 24 pack, which is great, except they forbid me from getting the sale price on the 12 pack because I had previously bought a 24 pack. In fact, I wasn't allowed the sale price on the 24 pack of Coke, either, because long ago I bought a cup of Costa Coffee, which wasn't even part of Coke at the time.

Then when I looked closer, I realized that although everything looks the same, the latest 24 pack I bought has cans that are only 2/3 full. As a result, even at regular price the 12 pack is a better deal because its cans are full. Sure, it turns out the fine print on the 24 pack now says 8 oz cans, but you'd only know that there is a now a difference if you know to look closely at both boxes.

So I've switched to buying 12 packs at regular price, but only because Coke is more familiar to me. The rational part of me says I should not expect them to stop playing games like this, so I should just drink Pepsi instead.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by Mudpuppy »

CFM300 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:12 pm Earlier in this thread, Mudpuppy posted a link where you can see the current Capital One Money Market rates. Here it is again:

https://www.capitalone.com/bank/savings ... sclosures/

Note the date in the upper right: April 27, 2020.

The listed rates are:

0.4989% for balance < $10K
0.7971% for balance > $10K

Yet your table above lists 1.30% for April and 1.21% for May.
The 360 MM rates have been dropping significantly, as have the 360 Performance Savings rates. What you see on the disclosure page is today's rate. What abc123 posted was a note of the historic rate. Now, I didn't track the historic rate quite that closely, but I do make note of it in my spreadsheet on a monthly basis. For balances greater than 10k (my balance), 360 MM was at 1.5% at the start of the year, then it went down pretty much month by month until it reached today's 0.8% rate.

In general, the 360MM historic rates have been 0.2% lower than the 360 Performance Savings rates, although earlier this month when 360 Performance Savings was at 1.15%, the 360 MM rate for >10k balances was 1.0%.
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by abc132 »

CFM300 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:12 pm
abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:18 pm Here are the Capital One Money Market Rates (rounding or math error possible):

2.00% Jun-19
2.00% Jul-19
2.00% Aug-19
1.95% Sep-19
1.90% Oct-19
1.79% Nov-19
1.53% Dec-19
1.50% Jan-20
1.50% Feb-20
1.40% Mar-20
1.30% Apr-20
1.21% May-20
0.80% Jun-20

The Capital One Money Market seems to track their Savings Rates pretty closely, and seem to have much higher value than the Ally Money Market. Both (CapOne MM vs CapOne Savings) were 1.95% in Sept 2019 and both were 1.2% in May 2020, tracking almost perfectly.

June 2020 appears to be the first time the money market dropped more. Looking at national money market averages, it seems reasonable to me, at least in the short term.
Where did you get those numbers? They're not accurate. Not even close. I'm basing this on my actual statements.

Earlier in this thread, Mudpuppy posted a link where you can see the current Capital One Money Market rates. Here it is again:

https://www.capitalone.com/bank/savings ... sclosures/

Note the date in the upper right: April 27, 2020.

The listed rates are:

0.4989% for balance < $10K
0.7971% for balance > $10K

Yet your table above lists 1.30% for April and 1.21% for May.
I used my statements. 360 Money Market.

March 31 10,272.87
April 30 10,283.75

10,272.87*(1.0000353^30) = 10,283.75

Annual rate = (1.0000353^365) - 1 = 1.30% for the month of April

Maybe they are giving old customers a better deal?
Last edited by abc132 on Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
02nz
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by 02nz »

Other ex-ING customers have noted a change for the worse since Capital One took these accounts over. It seems that even before that, when Capital One ran its own direct banking accounts, it used a very similar tactic. From viewtopic.php?t=290838#p4770498:

In fact Capital One itself has did this in the past with its "Capital One Direct Banking" predecessor (their online bank they offered prior to acquiring ING Direct). In 2008 I opened a "Capital One Online Savings Account" but the rate began to drop... in the meantime they had created a new "Capital One InterestPlus Online Savings" account with a higher rate (plus a quarterly bonus). Conversion to the new account however was not automatic, you had to know and open the new account yourself.
(End quote)

I call that slimy. Sleazy. Underhanded. (Not fraudulent.)
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by CFM300 »

Mudpuppy wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:36 pmWhat you see on the disclosure page is today's rate.
I assume that the rates shown on the disclosure page are not only today's rate, but also the rate since April 27, 2020 -- because that's the date on the page. Is that not correct?
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by sport »

iamlucky13 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:35 pm
JackoC wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:35 am
02nz wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:19 am
JackoC wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:50 amAThe periodic existing customer bonuses are the reason to maintain accounts with them. This will be the second bonus I've gotten for keeping $50k for 3 months in Performance Savings in less than a year.
As for promos - the existing customers are targeted and I was not. Ally and Marcus offers are generally open to all to enroll.
I think the recent bonus offers from Cap 1 were both existing and new; but maybe ads not sent to all existing.
I've been a customer since it was ING. I think back then I received a $50 promotion for joining.

Ever since then, every promotion I have been aware of has excluded me. That is perfectly fine with me, as long as the rate is good. In fact, I prefer a consistently good rate over a moderate rate with occassional promotions.

When CapitalOne bought ING's US accounts, they changed my money market account into lower paying savings without notifying me.

When the Performance accounts were introduced, they never gave clear info that would have informed me whether to switch. They just quietly lowered the money market rate and left it for us to figure out on our own that the plan was apparently to keep the money market account deliberately sub-par.

I would like to believe it's a good bank to do business with, and perhaps they are for new customers, but the message they keep sending me is they don't want long term customers. It's probably long past time for me to just believe them.
abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:30 am Ya, I went to the store an they had Coke 12 packs on sale. Less than half the price of a 24 pack, which was different than the last time I went shopping
That's not a very well-matched analogy.

Last time I did indeed buy a 24 pack of coke.

Then they started putting 12 packs on sale for less than half the price of the 24 pack, which is great, except they forbid me from getting the sale price on the 12 pack because I had previously bought a 24 pack. In fact, I wasn't allowed the sale price on the 24 pack of Coke, either, because long ago I bought a cup of Costa Coffee, which wasn't even part of Coke at the time.

Then when I looked closer, I realized that although everything looks the same, the latest 24 pack I bought has cans that are only 2/3 full. As a result, even at regular price the 12 pack is a better deal because its cans are full. Sure, it turns out the fine print on the 24 pack now says 8 oz cans, but you'd only know that there is a now a difference if you know to look closely at both boxes.

So I've switched to buying 12 packs at regular price, but only because Coke is more familiar to me. The rational part of me says I should not expect them to stop playing games like this, so I should just drink Pepsi instead.
:D :D :beer :beer
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Re: Capital One is at it again

Post by CFM300 »

abc132 wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:38 pm I used my statements. 360 Money Market.

March 31 10,272.87
April 30 10,283.75

10,272.87*(1.0000353^30) = 10,283.75

Annual rate = (1.0000353^365) - 1 = 1.30% for the month of April

Maybe they are giving old customers a better deal?
Why the math? Doesn't the interest rate appear on your statements? They do on mine.

Congratulations if you're getting a higher rate than other long-term customers and higher than their published rate.
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