Mortgage rates headed lower?

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HEDGEFUNDIE
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Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE »

Great article outlining the challenges facing the mortgage market:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mortgage-c ... _lead_pos8

Of particular note:
Historically, 30-year fixed mortgage rates hover around 1.7 percentage points above the 10-year Treasury yield. That spread is now 2.6 points, implying the mortgage rate should be closer to 2.5% than 3.3% now.
Pair this with comments Powell made a few weeks back about the learnings from the last financial crisis, when the Fed Funds rate was slashed to zero and kept there for years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NStvQ7uIAOU

Around 9 minutes:
"It was a great period to watch unemployment decline and not see prices or wages move up, and I think we’ve learned something very fundamental about our ability to associate levels of unemployment with inflation, or indeed, other imbalances. That is a lesson we’ll be carrying forward.”
These facts taken together make me believe that we are about to experience unprecedented low rates in mortgages. A specific prediction I will make is that we will see ARMs drop to <2.0% rates within the next 12 months (before any relationship discounts). The actions to be taken here, if you agree with my prognosis, include not refinancing into any mortgage with points, fees, or a longer term than absolutely necessary, because you will almost certainly have an opportunity to refinance again at record low rates in the near future.
go140point6
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by go140point6 »

I hope you're right... just wrapping up a no-fee/cost 15 year refi at 2.875% (down from our 30 year 3.875%). Going to be watching very closely over the next 12 months to see if we can do it again and go lower... or if rates don't plummet but stay this low for a few years, maybe then go to a 10 year after getting through a few years of the 15...
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willthrill81
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by willthrill81 »

Honestly, I'm more than a bit befuddled as to why mortgage rates aren't lower than they are. Initially, I heard that lenders were so busy doing refinances that they had no need to lower their rates further, but I didn't know that the mortgage space was so tight that virtually no lenders would push the envelope with lower than going rates. At any rate, that explanation really doesn't seem to make sense to me now. I have a hard time envisioning mortgage rates not falling further by at least another .5%, but I really don't know.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
drk
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by drk »

Assuming that mortgage market distress eases before inflation expectations kick up, definitely. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see 30-year mortgage rates touch 2%.
OldAtHeart
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by OldAtHeart »

One could argue that risk is higher now, so rates will stay higher to compensate for that added risk. If I was a bank I sure as heck wouldn’t lend anyone a ton of money for 30 years for only a 2.x% fixed return. I have always been amazed that they are willing to make these completely one sided deals (in the borrowers favor - they can pay it off any time they want if rates go lower, but the bank is stuck with it for 30 years even if inflation and rates shoot up).
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

I’ve seen small gyrations recently. I closed 10 days ago of 2.625% no closing costs on a 15-year, and one of the credit unions is now offering 2.25% on a 15-year, but with $3k closing costs. If things get to 2.25% with no cost, I’ll be refinancing again. And repeat if we continue to drop below 2%.
TropikThunder
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by TropikThunder »

OldAtHeart wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 11:17 pm One could argue that risk is higher now, so rates will stay higher to compensate for that added risk. If I was a bank I sure as heck wouldn’t lend anyone a ton of money for 30 years for only a 2.x% fixed return. I have always been amazed that they are willing to make these completely one sided deals (in the borrowers favor - they can pay it off any time they want if rates go lower, but the bank is stuck with it for 30 years even if inflation and rates shoot up).
Most conventional loans are bought by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, so the banks aren’t keeping them for more than a month or two. They may keep the servicing, yes, but they sell the note.
Starfish
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Starfish »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 10:34 pm Honestly, I'm more than a bit befuddled as to why mortgage rates aren't lower than they are. Initially, I heard that lenders were so busy doing refinances that they had no need to lower their rates further, but I didn't know that the mortgage space was so tight that virtually no lenders would push the envelope with lower than going rates. At any rate, that explanation really doesn't seem to make sense to me now. I have a hard time envisioning mortgage rates not falling further by at least another .5%, but I really don't know.
Some of it is true, I saw amerisave, lenderfi etc sites collapsing.
2.99% for a 30y at no cost is still not easy to get, the only lender I could find with these numbers was owning.com.
Planner01
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Planner01 »

We just refinanced to a 15 year loan at a 2.75% and plan to pay the mortgage off in the next 4 years exactly to the date (or sooner if possible). The refinance paperwork was such a pain that even if it goes down to 1% I would not do it again. Another incentive to pay it off.
Last edited by Planner01 on Tue May 26, 2020 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
BillWalters
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BillWalters »

The mortgage process is almost unbelievably time consuming and annoying. I’m not sure if it’s regulatory or lender driven but the amount of box checking nonsense that’s totally unrelated to actual risk or credit worthiness is truly unbelievable.
tsohg
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by tsohg »

BillWalters wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 6:06 am The mortgage process is almost unbelievably time consuming and annoying. I’m not sure if it’s regulatory or lender driven but the amount of box checking nonsense that’s totally unrelated to actual risk or credit worthiness is truly unbelievable.
Yes. In February I refinanced to a 3.375% 20 year fixed. Felt like a month-long ordeal, and this was with an online-only streamlined, no-cost process.

Then, after we closed, there was COVID-related radio silence for over 2 months. Our first payment was technically late because we didn't know who was servicing the loan.

Can't wait to experience this again. But now my 3.375 doesn't look so great... :?
stoptothink
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by stoptothink »

My mom just got quoted 2.5% for a 15yr this week, they'll be going down from a 4.5% 30yr (~8yrs in). She does not have particularly good credit (~700ish).
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

stoptothink wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:50 am My mom just got quoted 2.5% for a 15yr this week, they'll be going down from a 4.5% 30yr (~8yrs in). She does not have particularly good credit (~700ish).
Could you please share the lender, points, and costs associated with this (not counting my escrow funding or prepaid interest)?
whereskyle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by whereskyle »

Actually in the process of house hunting right now. First time homebuyer here. Don't want to derail the thread, but I wonder if anyone knows how soon after taking on a mortgage a homebuyer can refinance (in case rates are indeed heading lower). Thanks, all!
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
stoptothink
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by stoptothink »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:58 am
stoptothink wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:50 am My mom just got quoted 2.5% for a 15yr this week, they'll be going down from a 4.5% 30yr (~8yrs in). She does not have particularly good credit (~700ish).
Could you please share the lender, points, and costs associated with this (not counting my escrow funding or prepaid interest)?
Not sure of much else other than it was through Lending Tree. They went through a local broker and he said best he could do was 3.125%, went online and within minutes got several better quotes.
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simplesimon
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by simplesimon »

Just refinanced to a 3.0% 10/1 ARM in March (home purchased in 2019, ~77% LTV jumbo loan). LenderFi gives me zero hits when I enter my information, haven't done much comparison shopping beyond that - I'm guessing the mortgage market is very slow for refinancing jumbos. Anybody have any luck with a loan of this type?
Goot
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Goot »

I'm currently under contract on my first home purchase. I'm 29, 20% down payment, excellent credit, and locked in at 3.125% for a conventional 30-year.
Jags4186
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Jags4186 »

whereskyle wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 9:01 am Actually in the process of house hunting right now. First time homebuyer here. Don't want to derail the thread, but I wonder if anyone knows how soon after taking on a mortgage a homebuyer can refinance (in case rates are indeed heading lower). Thanks, all!
You can refinance immediately and as many times as you want unless your current loan has a defined hold period. Usually that hold period is 6 months.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

Jags4186 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 9:26 am
whereskyle wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 9:01 am Actually in the process of house hunting right now. First time homebuyer here. Don't want to derail the thread, but I wonder if anyone knows how soon after taking on a mortgage a homebuyer can refinance (in case rates are indeed heading lower). Thanks, all!
You can refinance immediately and as many times as you want unless your current loan has a defined hold period. Usually that hold period is 6 months.
Agreed. And these are more often associated with the lender covering closing costs or special things they offer as part of a special loan program (such as a first-time buyer loan). Traditional, conforming mortgages rarely have any clawbacks.
Soares1234
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Soares1234 »

WhatsIRR
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by WhatsIRR »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:58 am
stoptothink wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:50 am My mom just got quoted 2.5% for a 15yr this week, they'll be going down from a 4.5% 30yr (~8yrs in). She does not have particularly good credit (~700ish).
Could you please share the lender, points, and costs associated with this (not counting my escrow funding or prepaid interest)?
Not the OP but I am doing an almost identical refi but with excellent credit (800+).

Guaranteed Rate is the lender
1.125 points
$3,369 total closing cost + points
xerxes101
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by xerxes101 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 11:53 pm I’ve seen small gyrations recently. I closed 10 days ago of 2.625% no closing costs on a 15-year, and one of the credit unions is now offering 2.25% on a 15-year, but with $3k closing costs. If things get to 2.25% with no cost, I’ll be refinancing again. And repeat if we continue to drop below 2%.
Which credit union is that, could you share please...thx
xerxes101
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by xerxes101 »

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 9:49 pm Great article outlining the challenges facing the mortgage market:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mortgage-c ... _lead_pos8

Of particular note:
Historically, 30-year fixed mortgage rates hover around 1.7 percentage points above the 10-year Treasury yield. That spread is now 2.6 points, implying the mortgage rate should be closer to 2.5% than 3.3% now.
Pair this with comments Powell made a few weeks back about the learnings from the last financial crisis, when the Fed Funds rate was slashed to zero and kept there for years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NStvQ7uIAOU

Around 9 minutes:
"It was a great period to watch unemployment decline and not see prices or wages move up, and I think we’ve learned something very fundamental about our ability to associate levels of unemployment with inflation, or indeed, other imbalances. That is a lesson we’ll be carrying forward.”
These facts taken together make me believe that we are about to experience unprecedented low rates in mortgages. A specific prediction I will make is that we will see ARMs drop to <2.0% rates within the next 12 months (before any relationship discounts). The actions to be taken here, if you agree with my prognosis, include not refinancing into any mortgage with points, fees, or a longer term than absolutely necessary, because you will almost certainly have an opportunity to refinance again at record low rates in the near future.
This is very interesting, thanks for posting. I agree with your analysis. I think given the circumstances, it would be smart to find mortgage loans that have an inexpensive relock feature at this point...could potentially save both money and time.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

xerxes101 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:10 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 11:53 pm I’ve seen small gyrations recently. I closed 10 days ago of 2.625% no closing costs on a 15-year, and one of the credit unions is now offering 2.25% on a 15-year, but with $3k closing costs. If things get to 2.25% with no cost, I’ll be refinancing again. And repeat if we continue to drop below 2%.
Which credit union is that, could you share please...thx
https://www.bournscu.coop/

Others posted about it pages ago in the Refi Mega Thread. The CU has a very limited field of membership, but it remains to be seen if that would apply to getting the mortgage. One person was told they must be a member, the other was told they don’t have to be.
Golf maniac
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Golf maniac »

Mortgage rates will vary across the country, so someone getting a certain rate and certain costs in Texas will not be the same as Virginia. So asking someone who they refinanced with and costs is meaningless. You need to do your own research with local lenders, big banks, and online lenders. Some people like using brokers, which is fine, but always compare with other lenders.

For mortgage lenders the value is in the servicing not the interest paid on the loan. The big banks have massive servicing operations across the country. As people refinance and the servicing ends the banks need to feed their servicing operations with new loans. The jumbo market is completely different from the conforming loan market as private securitization are used vs FNMA and FHLMC doing most of the securitization on conforming loans. I have seen headlines about issues with the jumbo market, but I really haven’t researched the issue.
alfaspider
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by alfaspider »

Golf maniac wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:33 am The jumbo market is completely different from the conforming loan market as private securitization are used vs FNMA and FHLMC doing most of the securitization on conforming loans. I have seen headlines about issues with the jumbo market, but I really haven’t researched the issue.
Yep. The government backstops conforming mortgages, so it's a different market. The jumbo market is not as healthy. It used to be a jumbo was 10-20 basis points over a conforming, or occasionally even below conforming for some relationship lending. I've gotten quotes as high as 200bp above conforming recently for a jumbo refi, and most lenders won't even quote a jumbo here. Things seem a bit better in HCOL areas where jumbos are more popular.
wfrobinette
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by wfrobinette »

OldAtHeart wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 11:17 pm One could argue that risk is higher now, so rates will stay higher to compensate for that added risk. If I was a bank I sure as heck wouldn’t lend anyone a ton of money for 30 years for only a 2.x% fixed return. I have always been amazed that they are willing to make these completely one sided deals (in the borrowers favor - they can pay it off any time they want if rates go lower, but the bank is stuck with it for 30 years even if inflation and rates shoot up).
That's why banks package and sell mortgages.
wfrobinette
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by wfrobinette »

Planner01 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 5:57 am We just refinanced to a 15 year loan at a 2.75% and plan to pay the mortgage off in the next 4 years exactly to the date (or sooner if possible). The refinance paperwork was such a pain that even if it goes down to 1% I would not do it again. Another incentive to pay it off.
Why did you find the paperwork painful?

I just refi'd and had the paperwork piece done in less than hour.

2 pay stubs
2 bank statements for main accounts
Insurance
current loan statement
a couple electronic signatures
1 print sign and scan
1 or two simple letters explaining large stuff, scanned and uploaded.
I did 3/4 of everything on my mobile phone.
WhatsIRR
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by WhatsIRR »

Golf maniac wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:33 am Mortgage rates will vary across the country, so someone getting a certain rate and certain costs in Texas will not be the same as Virginia. So asking someone who they refinanced with and costs is meaningless. You need to do your own research with local lenders, big banks, and online lenders. Some people like using brokers, which is fine, but always compare with other lenders.
I also noticed that rates varied with the loan value. We were debating a $175k or $150k loan, I was consistently able to get 12-25 basis lower on the bigger loan with similar cost.
EFF_fan81
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by EFF_fan81 »

alfaspider wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 11:24 am
Golf maniac wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:33 am The jumbo market is completely different from the conforming loan market as private securitization are used vs FNMA and FHLMC doing most of the securitization on conforming loans. I have seen headlines about issues with the jumbo market, but I really haven’t researched the issue.
Yep. The government backstops conforming mortgages, so it's a different market. The jumbo market is not as healthy. It used to be a jumbo was 10-20 basis points over a conforming, or occasionally even below conforming for some relationship lending. I've gotten quotes as high as 200bp above conforming recently for a jumbo refi, and most lenders won't even quote a jumbo here. Things seem a bit better in HCOL areas where jumbos are more popular.
Oddly enough, back in 2016 I was on the bubble and jumbo rates in my HCOL area were briefly lower than regular. The explanation was "less red tape and a more creditworthy borrower pool." So I took out a slightly bigger mortgage to get the lowest jumbo possible.
alfaspider
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by alfaspider »

EFF_fan81 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:10 pm
alfaspider wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 11:24 am
Golf maniac wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 10:33 am The jumbo market is completely different from the conforming loan market as private securitization are used vs FNMA and FHLMC doing most of the securitization on conforming loans. I have seen headlines about issues with the jumbo market, but I really haven’t researched the issue.
Yep. The government backstops conforming mortgages, so it's a different market. The jumbo market is not as healthy. It used to be a jumbo was 10-20 basis points over a conforming, or occasionally even below conforming for some relationship lending. I've gotten quotes as high as 200bp above conforming recently for a jumbo refi, and most lenders won't even quote a jumbo here. Things seem a bit better in HCOL areas where jumbos are more popular.
Oddly enough, back in 2016 I was on the bubble and jumbo rates in my HCOL area were briefly lower than regular. The explanation was "less red tape and a more creditworthy borrower pool." So I took out a slightly bigger mortgage to get the lowest jumbo possible.
I think we may get there again. Lenders need to start getting comfortable that borrowers won't be loosing their jobs immediately after taking the loan. Too much uncertainty now. Assuming T-bill rates don't shoot up next year and job losses decelerate, I think jumbos will come way down.
Triple digit golfer
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Triple digit golfer »

Our mortgage is a 30 year fixed at 3.5% for our purchase made in 2016. I am shocked that I can't do a whole lot better than that on a refinance today. I'm not a market timer when investing, but I'm sitting tight on the mortgage until I can get 2.75% or lower on a 30 year with $0 fees.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Planner01 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 5:57 am We just refinanced to a 15 year loan at a 2.75% and plan to pay the mortgage off in the next 4 years exactly to the date (or sooner if possible). The refinance paperwork was such a pain that even if it goes down to 1% I would not do it again. Another incentive to pay it off.
Why did you find the paperwork painful?

I just refi'd and had the paperwork piece done in less than hour.

2 pay stubs
2 bank statements for main accounts
Insurance
current loan statement
a couple electronic signatures
1 print sign and scan
1 or two simple letters explaining large stuff, scanned and uploaded.
I did 3/4 of everything on my mobile phone.
I think Planner means the 104 page closing package that has 63 places for our signature or initials. FYI, those are NOT guesses, but ACTUAL values.
wfrobinette
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by wfrobinette »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:34 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Planner01 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 5:57 am We just refinanced to a 15 year loan at a 2.75% and plan to pay the mortgage off in the next 4 years exactly to the date (or sooner if possible). The refinance paperwork was such a pain that even if it goes down to 1% I would not do it again. Another incentive to pay it off.
Why did you find the paperwork painful?

I just refi'd and had the paperwork piece done in less than hour.

2 pay stubs
2 bank statements for main accounts
Insurance
current loan statement
a couple electronic signatures
1 print sign and scan
1 or two simple letters explaining large stuff, scanned and uploaded.
I did 3/4 of everything on my mobile phone.
I think Planner means the 104 page closing package that has 63 places for our signature or initials. FYI, those are NOT guesses, but ACTUAL values.
My guy was in and out in less than 15 minutes when we did that 3.5 weeks ago. We even had some kind of covid disclosure in ours. I'd spend this time as often as needed to save a $125 a month on interest.
mc2
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by mc2 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 11:53 pm I’ve seen small gyrations recently. I closed 10 days ago of 2.625% no closing costs on a 15-year, and one of the credit unions is now offering 2.25% on a 15-year, but with $3k closing costs. If things get to 2.25% with no cost, I’ll be refinancing again. And repeat if we continue to drop below 2%.
Pretty much my situation. Recent 12-yr $89 total cost 2.85 refi, no cash-out option, and no escrow service, 1 month ago. Now they have 12 yr at 2.75, and 10 year at 2.7
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 1:20 pm My guy was in and out in less than 15 minutes when we did that 3.5 weeks ago. We even had some kind of covid disclosure in ours. I'd spend this time as often as needed to save a $125 a month on interest.
I’m jealous. Mine took 90 minutes at my kitchen table and a hand cramp by the end of it. My full legal name is over 40-characters long.
petulant
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by petulant »

Isn't it possible that this is market-driven, not lender driven? What I mean is that banks and other companies originating mortgages will sell them to somebody who has access to investors. Those purchasers aren't just going to take what banks give them--they put in bids to the banks. It could be that the firms with access to investors are not bidding up because they are not seeing demand from investors.

For another data point, I have heard that a lot of credit spreads are higher than the historical relationship right now.
Jeff P
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Jeff P »

“I think we may get there again. Lenders need to start getting comfortable that borrowers won't be loosing their jobs immediately after taking the loan. Too much uncertainty now. Assuming T-bill rates don't shoot up next year and job losses decelerate, I think jumbos will come way down.”


We were there briefly in March. I locked in a jumbo at 3%. High balance was 3.3-3.5, I can’t remember exactly.

Jumbo rates were lower than the high balance for at least a week or two before for me and i think they were lower than non high balance too.

The day after I locked in jumbos jumped to 4% and have been higher ever since.
wfrobinette
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by wfrobinette »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:26 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 1:20 pm My guy was in and out in less than 15 minutes when we did that 3.5 weeks ago. We even had some kind of covid disclosure in ours. I'd spend this time as often as needed to save a $125 a month on interest.
I’m jealous. Mine took 90 minutes at my kitchen table and a hand cramp by the end of it. My full legal name is over 40-characters long.
Holy cow on name and time to sign. That's why I started with middle initial on all credit and such. I actually have about 28 in my name but because William can be written as wm and my middle initial. i'm at 13.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:40 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:26 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 1:20 pm My guy was in and out in less than 15 minutes when we did that 3.5 weeks ago. We even had some kind of covid disclosure in ours. I'd spend this time as often as needed to save a $125 a month on interest.
I’m jealous. Mine took 90 minutes at my kitchen table and a hand cramp by the end of it. My full legal name is over 40-characters long.
Holy cow on name and time to sign. That's why I started with middle initial on all credit and such. I actually have about 28 in my name but because William can be written as wm and my middle initial. i'm at 13.
The closing package included a “Also Known As” form that had shortened versions of my name. However, they were adamant that I sign exactly as indicated on every form, and most had my full legal name. A few had just my middle initial, but included the rest.
nolesrule
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by nolesrule »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:06 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:40 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:26 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 1:20 pm My guy was in and out in less than 15 minutes when we did that 3.5 weeks ago. We even had some kind of covid disclosure in ours. I'd spend this time as often as needed to save a $125 a month on interest.
I’m jealous. Mine took 90 minutes at my kitchen table and a hand cramp by the end of it. My full legal name is over 40-characters long.
Holy cow on name and time to sign. That's why I started with middle initial on all credit and such. I actually have about 28 in my name but because William can be written as wm and my middle initial. i'm at 13.
The closing package included a “Also Known As” form that had shortened versions of my name. However, they were adamant that I sign exactly as indicated on every form, and most had my full legal name. A few had just my middle initial, but included the rest.
They sent us the Full Closing package by Docusign the day before, and we were able to e-sign any forms that did not require a wet signature.

The next day we did a drive-by signing in the Closing Attorney's parking lot. They gave us just the sheets we needed to sign. Signed them the same as on my drivers license. Took us about 15 minutes, and that was with some chitchat.

You should sign the form exactly as indicated, but it doesn't mean every letter has to be legible.

My full name has 20 characters, but my signature has 7 and some slightly wavy space between some letters. I have intentionally shortened my legal signature over the years as I've gotten new ID cards to save time.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

nolesrule wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 5:41 pm They sent us the Full Closing package by Docusign the day before, and we were able to e-sign any forms that did not require a wet signature.

The next day we did a drive-by signing in the Closing Attorney's parking lot. They gave us just the sheets we needed to sign. Signed them the same as on my drivers license. Took us about 15 minutes, and that was with some chitchat.
I was expecting to e-sign everything as I had done all their prior loan docs during the app and underwriting. But nope. Everything was wet signed. Which sucked.

I can say my last refi a few years ago was the same way, with tons of signatures. However this package was definitely bigger.

Btw, Go Noles!
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anon_investor
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by anon_investor »

wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Planner01 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 5:57 am We just refinanced to a 15 year loan at a 2.75% and plan to pay the mortgage off in the next 4 years exactly to the date (or sooner if possible). The refinance paperwork was such a pain that even if it goes down to 1% I would not do it again. Another incentive to pay it off.
Why did you find the paperwork painful?

I just refi'd and had the paperwork piece done in less than hour.

2 pay stubs
2 bank statements for main accounts
Insurance
current loan statement
a couple electronic signatures
1 print sign and scan
1 or two simple letters explaining large stuff, scanned and uploaded.
I did 3/4 of everything on my mobile phone.
Similar experience. But maybe 10 minutes total since I had digital versions (I generally don't even get paper versions of anything) of everything and they explanations were just typed into a text box online.

Entire refi process from initial app to loan funding took 2.5 weeks. If rates fall enough I would do it again!
Planner01
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Planner01 »

wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Planner01 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 5:57 am We just refinanced to a 15 year loan at a 2.75% and plan to pay the mortgage off in the next 4 years exactly to the date (or sooner if possible). The refinance paperwork was such a pain that even if it goes down to 1% I would not do it again. Another incentive to pay it off.
Why did you find the paperwork painful?

I just refi'd and had the paperwork piece done in less than hour.

2 pay stubs
2 bank statements for main accounts
Insurance
current loan statement
a couple electronic signatures
1 print sign and scan
1 or two simple letters explaining large stuff, scanned and uploaded.
I did 3/4 of everything on my mobile phone.
Wow that’s amazing. I had to get all the information you have above PLUS tax returns for the last two years (we have both with the same employer for almost 2 decades and income has always been stable), copy of divorce decree from over 20 years ago, employment verification, verify and justify names on credit reports (misspelling by other people), proof of the original title insurance, HOA ledger and survey report.

We refinanced to a shorter term mortgage on a house that’s 50% loan to value at less than 20% of our net income. So why all the paperwork? I don’t know. But I never want to do that again!!
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anon_investor
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by anon_investor »

Planner01 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 6:44 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:01 pm
Planner01 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 5:57 am We just refinanced to a 15 year loan at a 2.75% and plan to pay the mortgage off in the next 4 years exactly to the date (or sooner if possible). The refinance paperwork was such a pain that even if it goes down to 1% I would not do it again. Another incentive to pay it off.
Why did you find the paperwork painful?

I just refi'd and had the paperwork piece done in less than hour.

2 pay stubs
2 bank statements for main accounts
Insurance
current loan statement
a couple electronic signatures
1 print sign and scan
1 or two simple letters explaining large stuff, scanned and uploaded.
I did 3/4 of everything on my mobile phone.
Wow that’s amazing. I had to get all the information you have above PLUS tax returns for the last two years (we have both with the same employer for almost 2 decades and income has always been stable), copy of divorce decree from over 20 years ago, employment verification, verify and justify names on credit reports (misspelling by other people), proof of the original title insurance, HOA ledger and survey report.

We refinanced to a shorter term mortgage on a house that’s 50% loan to value at less than 20% of our net income. So why all the paperwork? I don’t know. But I never want to do that again!!
Was this an online outfit or a traditional bank? I did my refi with Ally this month and it was all online and easy. I have done a couple of mortgages with Wells Fargo and those have always been painful, with underwriting always asking for more and more stuff. I would do a refi again with Ally.
Planner01
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Planner01 »

We used one of Costco’s recommended lenders: Finance of America.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by JonnyDVM »

Triple digit golfer wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:32 pm Our mortgage is a 30 year fixed at 3.5% for our purchase made in 2016. I am shocked that I can't do a whole lot better than that on a refinance today. I'm not a market timer when investing, but I'm sitting tight on the mortgage until I can get 2.75% or lower on a 30 year with $0 fees.

You sound exactly like me. I’m at 3.55 from 2016 and they can’t even give me a refi rate on a jumbo loan. Said they didn’t have enough money from investors for them. Check back in a few months. Blech.
I’d trade it all for a little more | -C Montgomery Burns
Triple digit golfer
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by Triple digit golfer »

JonnyDVM wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 7:13 pm
Triple digit golfer wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:32 pm Our mortgage is a 30 year fixed at 3.5% for our purchase made in 2016. I am shocked that I can't do a whole lot better than that on a refinance today. I'm not a market timer when investing, but I'm sitting tight on the mortgage until I can get 2.75% or lower on a 30 year with $0 fees.

You sound exactly like me. I’m at 3.55 from 2016 and they can’t even give me a refi rate on a jumbo loan. Said they didn’t have enough money from investors for them. Check back in a few months. Blech.
Yep, I'm keeping my eyes open, but right now there's nothing worth jumping for.
badmojo
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by badmojo »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 11:53 pm I’ve seen small gyrations recently. I closed 10 days ago of 2.625% no closing costs on a 15-year, and one of the credit unions is now offering 2.25% on a 15-year, but with $3k closing costs. If things get to 2.25% with no cost, I’ll be refinancing again. And repeat if we continue to drop below 2%.
What credit unions offer the 2.25% is that in Massachusetts? Please share
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Mortgage rates headed lower?

Post by BrandonBogle »

badmojo wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 11:14 pm What credit unions offer the 2.25% is that in Massachusetts? Please share
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 12:08 am
xerxes101 wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:10 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon May 25, 2020 11:53 pm I’ve seen small gyrations recently. I closed 10 days ago of 2.625% no closing costs on a 15-year, and one of the credit unions is now offering 2.25% on a 15-year, but with $3k closing costs. If things get to 2.25% with no cost, I’ll be refinancing again. And repeat if we continue to drop below 2%.
Which credit union is that, could you share please...thx
https://www.bournscu.coop/

Others posted about it pages ago in the Refi Mega Thread. The CU has a very limited field of membership, but it remains to be seen if that would apply to getting the mortgage. One person was told they must be a member, the other was told they don’t have to be.
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