Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

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corp_sharecropper
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Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by corp_sharecropper » Sat May 16, 2020 3:21 pm

Seems like a few (1-3 times/yr) some fraud department contacts me about suspicious activity on a debit/credit card and sure enough, it's fraud (good, at least their algos seem to be amazingly effective). This of course sets in motion the supreme hassle of shutting down the card and mailing a new one, resulting in a few services that bill the card in the meantime to not be paid and of course me having to go in and update the card number at all the various services that have recurring payments from it.

We basically try to always use credit cards when that's an option. All the recurring services mentioned earlier are reputable well known businesses (Hulu, AT&T, USAA insurance, etc..). Of the online shopping, I can't think of any risky/obscure merchants, off the top of my head I'm thinking the most common ones are Amazon, Wal-Mart, and a handful of national/mulit-national clothing companies, etc..

In terms of our IRL/physical usage we use them at the local grocery stores, the 7-11 down the street, brand name gas stations, big national hardware stores, basically nothing that stands out to me as an obvious place that may be the cause for the fraud. No bodegas, pawn shops, or whatever. We also almost never go out to dine (even before COVID), I can't remember the last time we did. So basically I just can't think of a single instance where our cards are not physically in our possession or where we are not the ones swiping it in a machine. Yes, I'm aware of devices that criminals have installed on things like ATMs and gas pumps to read cards but I doubt that explains this or previous cases of fraud we've experienced. Can't prove that, but I consider myself to be decently vigilant, think that the places we go would be unlikely to be high risks for that, and I guess I have doubts about the prevalence/ubiquity of such skimming devices in general.

The CC support person said the transactions were from the card strip read, "there must be a counterfeit card" she says. Possibly I suppose, but we're not within 1000mi of Arizona where the transactions supposedly were processed (I realize that could just be where the billing dept of the business on the other end of this might be, and not necessarily where the crime was committed).

So is this just the sad state of affairs these days when trying to live your life with minimal cash transactions, and I just need to chalk it up to the cost of doing business (aka living in modern society)? Or does the frequency with which this happens to me/wife seem like a big outlier? If you've had this happen a decent amount, has there been anything you've figured out that has been truly effective in decreasing these issues? I'm almost wondering if much of this occurs from just criminals generating valid card numbers (as in valid algorithmically, which is trivial to do) and just trying them until they get one that happens to an active/open account. I don't know, just a guess.

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JDCarpenter
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by JDCarpenter » Sat May 16, 2020 3:31 pm

corp_sharecropper wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:21 pm
Seems like a few (1-3 times/yr) some fraud department contacts me about suspicious activity on a debit/credit card and sure enough, it's fraud (good, at least their algos seem to be amazingly effective). ...

Or does the frequency with which this happens to me/wife seem like a big outlier? ....
We also use credit cards whenever possible, both in the USA and when abroad (and from mid-2017 to early this year was ~ 30% of time international, mostly third world). We haven't had more than one or two total card replacements for suspected fraud in that time. Given the numerous restaurant meals as we travel here and abroad, we seemingly would be at high risk, but you seem unlucky on this.

(Cards with Chase, BoA, Citi, capital one, and commerce bank, with the first two heavily used.)

Hopefully, your luck will change. Definitely not fun to change autocharges.
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delamer
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by delamer » Sat May 16, 2020 3:33 pm

How many credit cards do you have? It seems to me that the larger the number, the more chance for fraud.

We have similar spending patterns to what you mentioned, except that we do (or did) go to restaurants regularly. We have 3 cards. And one fraudulent transaction in the last 10 years.

Have you considered applying for new cards with different issuers, instead of getting new cards from the same issuers which are giving you repeated problems?

lstone19
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by lstone19 » Sat May 16, 2020 3:46 pm

My solution to the hassle of updating recurring charges is to have one card used only for recurring charges with the card never being used in the wild. It seems to be effective; card compromises seem to be directly proportional to how much the card is used in the field.

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JonnyDVM
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by JonnyDVM » Sat May 16, 2020 3:51 pm

Yah it’s annoying. Happens at least a couple times a year to us. I assume the numbers are often stolen by hackers. When you use a lot of merhants, someone is eventually going to be compromised. Maybe there are other avenues used to steal them, but I can’t imagine there are that many skimmers out there. Fraudulent charges are just part of regularly using credit cards.

If the fraudsters were pursued more aggressively by the banks and law enforcement maybe the incidents would decrease. I’ve had an instance where reservations were made at a hotel using my info. Easiest arrest ever. Wait in the lobby for them to check in right? No interest in pursuing it. They just seem to shrug it off.
Last edited by JonnyDVM on Sat May 16, 2020 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Watty
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Watty » Sat May 16, 2020 3:53 pm

lstone19 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:46 pm
My solution to the hassle of updating recurring charges is to have one card used only for recurring charges with the card never being used in the wild. It seems to be effective; card compromises seem to be directly proportional to how much the card is used in the field.

+1

Gas stations are one of the few places where the magnetic strip is still used so I would also dedicate just one card for gas purchases.

It would also be good to make sure that your computers and phones are up to date and run a full virus scan.

retiredjg
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by retiredjg » Sat May 16, 2020 3:53 pm

Here's an argument for not being simple...consider having a separate card for different types of transactions.

Carry 2 cards with you. Use card #1 for everything. Use card #2 only when card #1 fails which will occasionally happen and you'll be glad you have it. Card #2 is rarely used (but use it once a year to keep it current).

Have Card #3 for all automatic charges. Keep it at home, not in your wallet/purse. It should be near the same balance every month except when a quarterly or annual charge comes due. My experience is that this card is never (or almost never) compromised so I don't ever have to change card numbers on recurring services).

Have card #4 for online transactions that are not automatic (Amazon, etc.). You would think this would be the "problem card" but in my experience, it is not. Can't remember the last time I had a problem with it.

Yes, you have to check the balance of and pay 3 or 4 bills a month. But when/if something goes haywire, it is very simple to isolate and fix.

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Watty
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Watty » Sat May 16, 2020 4:02 pm

A couple more ideas.

1) Have your credit cards set up to send you a text every time there is a charge. This will help you catch any problems that the credit card company misses. Each of you should have cards that they only use so they will get the text when it is used.

2) At least for a few months keep all your credit card receipts and reconcile them with your statements to check for authorized charges, especially recurring charges. When you have hundreds of charges a month it is tempting to not adequately review the statements. One thing to watch out for is that sometimes a waiter will change the tip amount.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Sat May 16, 2020 4:06 pm

I charge everything I can to my Priceline Visa 2% rewards card unless it is gas or restaurants or grocery charges.

I do get fraudulent charges and have to replace one card or the other every couple of years. One thing my cards all seem to do is to continue all regular charges for some time, so they do offer plenty of time to go thru your lists of charges you have that are for services paid monthly.

A year or so ago I started using PayPal (paid by my credit card(s)) so my card number(s) aren't available for my one and done purchases at online businesses where I make some random purchase. That seems to work better than having your card number(s) used all over the internet.

No matter what, it is a PITA to have to change your credit card numbers for all your trusted sites that are paid every month via a card stored at their site.

For a while DW was getting lots of fraudulent charges on her Sam's card, even though she was buying gas at Sam's, or major brand gas stations. That seems to have dropped off substantially the last year or so. She doesn't buy gas at 7-11s or the various convenience stores around town.

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WolfgangPauli
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by WolfgangPauli » Sat May 16, 2020 4:06 pm

One good thing coming out of all this COVID stuff is the fast movement to touches purchases - which means you never have to put out your credit card. Whenever I can, I use Apple Pay as it is virtually indestructible. A lot of gas stations will now take it at the pump which means no risk of skimming. And, the way the technology works, if someone somehow got the transaction you did, the token is only good for that transaction. It is useless for anything else.

Had a great experience here today with Shell. I set up an account and said I only want to use Apple Pay. When I got to the station I opened the Shell app and it knew I was at the station (Location Services) and it asked me what pump I was going to use. I entered 8, pump 8 was the sign for my pump. It asked me on the app if I wanted a specific amount or a fill up. I entered fill up. It asked how to pay and I tapped Apple Pay and it charged Apple Pay.

It then told me to pump the gas. I never entered a code 1 or a card into the pump. All done from my iPhone, shell app and Apple Pay. The skimmers are going to have to get into a different line of work.
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galawdawg
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by galawdawg » Sat May 16, 2020 4:10 pm

If you have a Citi card, I'd recommend using their virtual account number (VAN) system to generate single or recurring use numbers for each payment using an online biller. On each VAN you generate, you can set up a limit as to amount and valid dates Use a different VAN for each company you deal with online (or by phone). That way in the event of a data breach at any of those companies, the hackers only get your VAN and not your actual account number. And their DoubleCash card gives you 2% cash back.

You also may want to reconsider your use of debit cards as those don't have the same protections as credit cards. If used fraudulently, the funds come out of your bank account and may cause overdrafts while you deal with the bank and wait for the funds to credit back. Some banks offer an ATM only card and others will block the debit use of your card so it can't be used for purchases.

curmudgeon
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by curmudgeon » Sat May 16, 2020 4:11 pm

In normal times I try to use cash for most small purchases, cards for larger ones. We do a lot of international travel, and do a similar pattern with that. I'd say we've only had to do card replacements about once per 3-4 years. I'd wonder if the OP has someplace in their normal round of transactions where there is a card skimmer. Maybe on a gas pump, or a merchant who has been conned. When a number has been skimmed, it doesn't necessarily get used immediately the way stolen cards do, so it might not be obvious. I would think about any places you go which don't have chip-enabled card readers as a starting point (some gas pumps being the common case).

illumination
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by illumination » Sat May 16, 2020 4:15 pm

This got excessive for me also, and I was also really cautious using my CC and used cash often because I was so snake bit. Maybe this is a complete coincidence, but it was always happening with my Wells Fargo CC and never with my Chase ones. I honestly believe there was an internal breach at the bank, I had some specific incidences like one card I never used once or even activated getting used fraudulently.

It does seem like it has gone down considerably for me since the chips have been implemented and not the magnetic strips.

I'll never understand why credit card companies were so cavalier with security since they eat it. I would have fraud in the thousands of dollars, seems cheaper to add some basic security. My understanding was other countries were much better about this a long time ago than in the US.

Pacific
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Pacific » Sat May 16, 2020 4:28 pm

corp_sharecropper wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:21 pm


Possibly I suppose, but we're not within 1000mi of Arizona where the transactions supposedly were processed

Where were Sandtrap and Alan S. when the incident occurred? :happy

Katietsu
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Katietsu » Sat May 16, 2020 4:42 pm

I have only had fraudulent charges about one every few years not multiple times a year. I do think the local aspect is important. For example, friends who frequent Vegas and southern FL seem to end up with a lot more fraudulent charge problems then anyone else I know. Separating card usage as described above may help identify your problem.

jeep5ter
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by jeep5ter » Sat May 16, 2020 4:44 pm

I don't know if this will help you, but I started using a dedicated gas credit card for fuel and fraud attempts went down dramatically for me. I wonder if unattended gas pumps are a target for skimmers.

ballons
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by ballons » Sat May 16, 2020 4:48 pm

You should not be getting hit that much. Somewhere, someone is skimming your information. Trace all your transactions back and see where they overlap. With chipped cards today, make a list of where you still have to swipe. That puts online and a handful of merchants as suspect.
We basically try to always use credit cards when that's an option. All the recurring services mentioned earlier are reputable well known businesses (Hulu, AT&T, USAA insurance, etc..). Of the online shopping, I can't think of any risky/obscure merchants, off the top of my head I'm thinking the most common ones are Amazon, Wal-Mart, and a handful of national/mulit-national clothing companies, etc..
There is a chance that this could all be happening on the backend somewhere i.e. malware in a merchant or processor. A completely safe merchant's backend could be completely compromised.

rich126
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by rich126 » Sat May 16, 2020 5:05 pm

This seems to run in streaks and is often just a random thing (in most cases). Sometimes someone will try to use a fraudulent card at a gas station for a small purchase to see if it gets approved. If so then they do a bigger purchase. Often someone has a number but have to guess at the zip code and that triggers a denial.

I've had one case where I got a replacement card and had never used it and someone tried to use that number. They cc company told me people will try to guess a cc # (they actually follow a pattern which is why you can figure out if a number if legitimate from a bank although not whether it is active).

I've had people try to use a number to buy a phone in NJ (don't live/visit there).
People try to use a number online but got both the zip code and security code wrong.

I don't use debit cards. And now I rarely even use an ATM card with online billing, ccs and apple pay.

Generally it isn't much of a hassle. This wasn't directly fraud but I canceled an auto billing thing before it was due, and then found out the company tried to charge me for it so I disputed it.

My worst hassle involved a credit union. It was for a trivial amount (< $10) but something that clearly wasn't mine and I had to fill out all these forms. Afterwards I canceled the account. I could understand if it was for a larger purchase or if the company had some kind of evidence I authorized it but this was just annoying.

And credit cards/banks do this to themselves because they find the fraud is cheaper than moving to a more secure system that requires a pin (preferably 6 or 8 digits).

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Rob5TCP
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Rob5TCP » Sat May 16, 2020 5:23 pm

I've had this in the past -- a one point every 6-7 months; almost always one card.
It has gotten a bit better with the chip (and I scratch out the code on the back) so it can not be used
for online purchases.

Finally, I use Cap 1 virtual card numbers for all online purchases and keep them off except when I am
making a purchase. So with 50+ virtual cards, all are closed except for the few minutes needed to make
the purchase. For recurring automatic charges, I use a different card.

This has cut down enormously the amount of time to replace the card. Unfortunately it happened at the
beginning of a 5 week vacation in Canada. Luckily I received the replacement card in 4-5 days (and had a backup card but SOOL if that one was compromised.)

BeneIRA
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by BeneIRA » Sat May 16, 2020 5:30 pm

I turn on notifications for all of my cards. When I make a purchase, I get a text and/or email. One card we had had a fraud charge attempt every single Saturday in April. I never requested a new one because the card was locked, so I figured they would give up. When they didn't, I finally requested a new card. That card hasn't gotten a fraud charge in May yet. If you have a card you don't use and it is in the sock drawer, definitely lock it.

For gas stations, I almost always have a gas gift card I purchased as I am worried about my card getting skimmed.

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Stinky
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Stinky » Sat May 16, 2020 5:39 pm

ballons wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:48 pm
You should not be getting hit that much. Somewhere, someone is skimming your information. Trace all your transactions back and see where they overlap. With chipped cards today, make a list of where you still have to swipe. That puts online and a handful of merchants as suspect.
I agree - you shouldn’t be getting hit that much. There’s a leakage in your merchants somewhere.
BeneIRA wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:30 pm
I turn on notifications for all of my cards. When I make a purchase, I get a text and/or email.
We do the same. I see new charges of any size instantly. (DW doesn’t like this much - she thinks I’m snooping on her - but I tell her it’s just part of living in the modern age).
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RetiredAL
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by RetiredAL » Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm

Stinky wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:39 pm
ballons wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:48 pm
You should not be getting hit that much. Somewhere, someone is skimming your information. Trace all your transactions back and see where they overlap. With chipped cards today, make a list of where you still have to swipe. That puts online and a handful of merchants as suspect.
I agree - you shouldn’t be getting hit that much. There’s a leakage in your merchants somewhere.
BeneIRA wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:30 pm
I turn on notifications for all of my cards. When I make a purchase, I get a text and/or email.
We do the same. I see new charges of any size instantly. (DW doesn’t like this much - she thinks I’m snooping on her - but I tell her it’s just part of living in the modern age).
Your card people have you well trained. They have you using your time/resources to do their job for them.

With a credit card, it's their money, not yours, at risk.

BeneIRA
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by BeneIRA » Sat May 16, 2020 8:05 pm

RetiredAL wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 7:01 pm
Stinky wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:39 pm
ballons wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:48 pm
You should not be getting hit that much. Somewhere, someone is skimming your information. Trace all your transactions back and see where they overlap. With chipped cards today, make a list of where you still have to swipe. That puts online and a handful of merchants as suspect.
I agree - you shouldn’t be getting hit that much. There’s a leakage in your merchants somewhere.
BeneIRA wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 5:30 pm
I turn on notifications for all of my cards. When I make a purchase, I get a text and/or email.
We do the same. I see new charges of any size instantly. (DW doesn’t like this much - she thinks I’m snooping on her - but I tell her it’s just part of living in the modern age).
Your card people have you well trained. They have you using your time/resources to do their job for them.

With a credit card, it's their money, not yours, at risk.
It's a fair criticism. However, isn't the onus on the user to determine if something is fraud? In the old days, I used to take a pen and all of my receipts on the paper statement. Technology has made this much, much easier. I charge something, I get a text, I forget about it and move on. For restaurant charges when adding a tip, I do a cursory glance to make sure no one added a "0" to the tip line or anything ridiculous.

RetiredAL
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by RetiredAL » Sat May 16, 2020 8:17 pm

Over the years, I've rarely had a card compromised - maybe once every 7 to 10 years.

However, the last one was just a couple of years ago and I found it strange, so story time.

USAA Visa updated cards for DW and I that were received a couple of days before a trip. These new cards had different account numbers than the previous ones and USAA issues different non-sequential numbers to DW and me. Upon arrival on Bozeman Mt, I presented my new card to the Avis rep so as to update my Avis Preferred record with the new card number, and we left for DD's very rural location. Be mindful that was the first presentation of my card and DW's card had never been presented to anyone. 1.5 hrs out of Bozeman, my cellphone beeps with 5 text msgs from USAA asking something about 5 charges that had DW and I confused although one was clearly the car rental. Driving in rural Mt at night on a road known for antelope, deer, cow, elk, and moose activity is not a place to be distracted by the phone call, so I ignored it knowing we will be at DD's in 30 minutes.

As I pulled into DD's driveway, my phone rang. USAA, an actual person. The person asked if I was traveling, I said yes. She asked if I had recently used the card and where, I said at Avis in Bozemen. She said Argentina? No I replied, Montana. Turns out they had received charges processed in Argentina, 2 to each card, one for a very small amount, another larger but still small amount, on each card, made 2 days previous. As I remember, they were something like $1 and $20.

So one has to question how the bad guys get the account numbers before either card, and with each having a different number, before they have been used anywhere. The USAA lady told me they just try random numbers until they find one that is accepted. OK, I can plausibly see that happening to one card, but to both cards at the same time?

IMO, the only logical answer is someone were the cards are made is leaking the numbers. That concept matches that others who have said there replacement cards were compromised before they even arrived.

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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by KlangFool » Sat May 16, 2020 8:19 pm

lstone19 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:46 pm
My solution to the hassle of updating recurring charges is to have one card used only for recurring charges with the card never being used in the wild. It seems to be effective; card compromises seem to be directly proportional to how much the card is used in the field.
+1,000. It works!!

KlangFool

novemberrain
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by novemberrain » Sat May 16, 2020 8:35 pm

I was recently affected as well. Someone rented a car in my name !!! They apparently hacked both my credit card number and my address. Then they rented a car with Avis in my name in a different state 2000 miles away. I guess they created both a hacked credit card as well as some sort of ID in my name.

I am thinking of getting a USPS mailbox and change all my credit card addresses there. That way at least if someone creates a fake ID in my name in the future, I can easily change my PO Box number and not worry about it.

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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Doctor Rhythm » Sat May 16, 2020 8:49 pm

corp_sharecropper wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:21 pm
Seems like a few (1-3 times/yr) some fraud department contacts me about suspicious activity on a debit/credit card
That does seem like an awful lot - it's probably more like 1-3 per decade for us with two credit cards in constant use and 2-3 others used infrequently. We're probably on the other extreme as far as taking precautions. I use a credit card for almost every purchase. I run them through the stripe-readers on gas pumps and vending machines regularly. I only request text notification if a transactions is over $1000 or international. I totally get that people worry about fraud and want to know ASAP, but whether you detect it or the agency does, the hassle factor and liability are the same. Of course, I might feel differently if this happened to me several times a year.

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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Northern Flicker » Sat May 16, 2020 8:57 pm

We manage this as follows:

1. We refuse to possess a debit card, just credit cards and ATM cards.

2. We have one credit card we use exclusively for recurring charges to the card on file with the vendor. That card never leaves the house and is never used for 1-off purchases. This minimizes the odds of this card being compromised, so we normally don’t need to supply an updated card number to the vendors making recurring charges if a card is compromised.

3. We try to avoid handing a credit to a service provider and use a self-service reader whenever possible.

4. We use a credit card registered with PayPal and use PayPal for purchases online when possible.
Risk is not a guarantor of return.

oldfort
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by oldfort » Sat May 16, 2020 9:03 pm

I've never found replacing a credit card to be a supreme hassle. It typically takes under 15 minutes to cancel a card and report fraudulent transactions. The key is to own multiple credit cards, so you always have at least one active card, when one gets cancelled.

runner540
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by runner540 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:07 pm

lstone19 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:46 pm
My solution to the hassle of updating recurring charges is to have one card used only for recurring charges with the card never being used in the wild. It seems to be effective; card compromises seem to be directly proportional to how much the card is used in the field.
+1
Dedicating one card to recurring purchases makes it easier to update and track.

Bobby206
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Bobby206 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:10 pm

delamer wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:33 pm
How many credit cards do you have? It seems to me that the larger the number, the more chance for fraud.

We have similar spending patterns to what you mentioned, except that we do (or did) go to restaurants regularly. We have 3 cards. And one fraudulent transaction in the last 10 years.

Have you considered applying for new cards with different issuers, instead of getting new cards from the same issuers which are giving you repeated problems?
It would seem the question is not how many cards a person has but how many charges they make a month, no!? You could have 20 cards but if you only use them a few times your odds are low.

We do 200+ charges a month and I would say it's once a year on average that we get our card compromised.

What does the car issuer have to do with credit card fraud? That doesn't really make any sense to me but perhaps I am missing something obvious!?

rick0
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by rick0 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:11 pm

lstone19 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:46 pm
My solution to the hassle of updating recurring charges is to have one card used only for recurring charges with the card never being used in the wild. It seems to be effective; card compromises seem to be directly proportional to how much the card is used in the field.
+1

I also have a card used ONLY for recurring charges. It lives in a secure place - not in my wallet!

mtmingus
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by mtmingus » Sat May 16, 2020 9:23 pm

When you started a dispute on a fraud charge on your credit card, do you get this charge removed immediately, or this charge will stay and you are liable until this is proven in your favor?

rtt22
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by rtt22 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:54 pm

What I do to minimize fraudulent credit card charges:
1. Use one card for all recurrent charges and not use that card anywhere else
2. Use mobile apps to pay for gas, at the same time get to save 3 - 5 cents off per gallon just for using their apps
3. Use virtual numbers, setting max allowed amount and short expiration date, when paying online, mainly to prevent unauthorized future charges from same vendor
4. Lock/Freeze the cards when not in use, except for the one used for recurrent charges.

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Stinky
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Stinky » Sat May 16, 2020 10:01 pm

mtmingus wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:23 pm
When you started a dispute on a fraud charge on your credit card, do you get this charge removed immediately, or this charge will stay and you are liable until this is proven in your favor?
Citi gives you a “conditional” credit immediately. I believe that the credit becomes permanent if the user prevails, but is taken away if the bank/merchant prevails.
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt

rtt22
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by rtt22 » Sat May 16, 2020 10:04 pm

mtmingus wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:23 pm
When you started a dispute on a fraud charge on your credit card, do you get this charge removed immediately, or this charge will stay and you are liable until this is proven in your favor?
The charge will stay (but you don't have to pay it off) until the credit card company determines it's not your fault.
There would be this notice in the CC statement:
"This statement contains a security credit adjustment for a charge disputed as unauthorized. We may contact you for further information. If you do not hear from us, the credit may be permanent. If we reverse this credit based on our investigation we will notify you."

So I lock my cards when not in use (except for the one used only for recurrent charges).

delamer
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by delamer » Sat May 16, 2020 10:07 pm

Bobby206 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 9:10 pm
delamer wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:33 pm
How many credit cards do you have? It seems to me that the larger the number, the more chance for fraud.

We have similar spending patterns to what you mentioned, except that we do (or did) go to restaurants regularly. We have 3 cards. And one fraudulent transaction in the last 10 years.

Have you considered applying for new cards with different issuers, instead of getting new cards from the same issuers which are giving you repeated problems?
It would seem the question is not how many cards a person has but how many charges they make a month, no!? You could have 20 cards but if you only use them a few times your odds are low.

We do 200+ charges a month and I would say it's once a year on average that we get our card compromised.

What does the car issuer have to do with credit card fraud? That doesn't really make any sense to me but perhaps I am missing something obvious!?
If there is an internal security problem within an issuer’s operation that could increase the likelihood of fraud.

Sure, the volume of transactions would be a factor in the likelihood of fraud (more transactions, more exposure). I’ll have to think about your other point — if Person 1 does 20 transactions a month spread of three cards while Person 2 does the identical transactions using just one card, is Person 1 at more risk?

Luckywon
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Luckywon » Sat May 16, 2020 10:35 pm

Whenever possible I make my credit card transactions end in 0.33 cents. This is easy to do at restaurants (adjust tip) and a little bit of a game at gas stations-within 1 cent is close enough. This makes them easy to recognize as authentic. Doesn't prevent the problem OP is having but helps a bit when one wants to screen credit card activity.
Last edited by Luckywon on Sat May 16, 2020 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Chuck107
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Chuck107 » Sat May 16, 2020 10:36 pm

Watty wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:53 pm
lstone19 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:46 pm
My solution to the hassle of updating recurring charges is to have one card used only for recurring charges with the card never being used in the wild. It seems to be effective; card compromises seem to be directly proportional to how much the card is used in the field.

+1

Gas stations are one of the few places where the magnetic strip is still used so I would also dedicate just one card for gas purchases.

It would also be good to make sure that your computers and phones are up to date and run a full virus scan.
+2

I use a separate card just for gas stations, or anywhere that I have any doubt about. Having been burned enough times myself.

MikeG62
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by MikeG62 » Sun May 17, 2020 9:34 am

corp_sharecropper wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:21 pm

...So is this just the sad state of affairs these days when trying to live your life with minimal cash transactions, and I just need to chalk it up to the cost of doing business (aka living in modern society)? Or does the frequency with which this happens to me/wife seem like a big outlier? If you've had this happen a decent amount, has there been anything you've figured out that has been truly effective in decreasing these issues? I'm almost wondering if much of this occurs from just criminals generating valid card numbers (as in valid algorithmically, which is trivial to do) and just trying them until they get one that happens to an active/open account. I don't know, just a guess.
I hesitate as I type this note for fear of jinxing myself, but the frequency of fraudulent charges on our credit cards (we have lots of them) has actually declined over the last year or two. I don't know what to attribute this to quite frankly. We continue to use our cards routinely. Yes, during the lockdown no travel and no dine in restaurants, but that's only been two months. Offsetting that, we have been buying a heck of a lot more online than we did previously. So actually a greater number of charges, but lower in individual and aggregate dollar amount. Finger's crossed that things continue in this direction for us as updating all recurring charges is a pain.
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Redlion
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Redlion » Sun May 17, 2020 1:38 pm

I had this problem myself with my Fidelity Visa card, I changed gas stations and I have all my automatic payments on a separate card to bypass the inconvenience should my card be compromised again .

bighatnohorse
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by bighatnohorse » Sun May 17, 2020 1:48 pm

Definitely use a separate card for automatic payments.
(As has been recommended many times in this thread.)
Don't use that card or carry it.

Carry and use two credit cards.
One as primary, one as backup.

So yes, three cards total.

ballons
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by ballons » Sun May 17, 2020 4:19 pm

RetiredAL wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:17 pm
So one has to question how the bad guys get the account numbers before either card, and with each having a different number, before they have been used anywhere. The USAA lady told me they just try random numbers until they find one that is accepted. OK, I can plausibly see that happening to one card, but to both cards at the same time?

IMO, the only logical answer is someone were the cards are made is leaking the numbers. That concept matches that others who have said there replacement cards were compromised before they even arrived.
Guess is not worth their time nor the risk. It is way more easy and way more profitable to just skim your information upon use. Your computer, your phone, mag readers, POS terminals, processor network, etc. Target, home depot, TJmaxx, etc get hit like this. Hackers injected a script into Newegg.com's checkout that logged all keystrokes.

Dec 2019:
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/01/waw ... ent-cards/

9 months WAWA was breached at all 850 locations. 9 months of skimming. Sold on the internet for $1-$5/card. People then buy them and hope they can be successful with fraud.

FishTaco
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by FishTaco » Sun May 17, 2020 4:30 pm

lstone19 wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:46 pm
My solution to the hassle of updating recurring charges is to have one card used only for recurring charges with the card never being used in the wild. It seems to be effective; card compromises seem to be directly proportional to how much the card is used in the field.
+1

I do this but count on having to cancel my "dirty" card about once a year.

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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by Cheez-It Guy » Sun May 17, 2020 4:33 pm

I really don't want to jinx myself, but thankfully I have never had fraudulent charges. Surprised it happens so frequently to others and wondering what drives the difference in occurrence level.

TravelGeek
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by TravelGeek » Sun May 17, 2020 5:00 pm

delamer wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:33 pm
How many credit cards do you have? It seems to me that the larger the number, the more chance for fraud.
I have 17 (I had to look at my spreadsheet ... ooops).

I use cards wherever possible. Many are sock drawer cards that I only have for the benefits and use once or twice a year to keep them alive.

Last fraud was on one of my sock drawer cards (IHG Visa) four years ago. That was the fourth actual fraud I experienced in nearly 30 years of card usage. None of them was difficult to resolve.

I used to dedicate one sock drawer card to recurring charges, but stopped doing that a few years ago to optimize the rewards better (e.g., my Ink Cash pays 5X on Internet service, my Everyday Amex needs 20 charges a month for 20% bonus, ...).

Regarding gas stations... I rarely visit gas stations these days (most driving is EV), and when I do, it’s mostly at full service stations (mandatory in OR) which may be a bit less likely to be equipped with skimmers). But even before EV purchase and OR relocation I did not experience frequent fraud.

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beyou
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by beyou » Sun May 17, 2020 5:27 pm

While I agree it is annoying to change cards periodically, I constantly update which cards I use anyway. I am pretty aware of which cards have best cash back deals, and change cc # on places like Amazon, hulu, whenever another card gives more cash back for that particular business. So if stolen # then yes I have to change again, but I have lots of practice ;-)

RetiredAL
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by RetiredAL » Sun May 17, 2020 5:33 pm

ballons wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 4:19 pm
RetiredAL wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:17 pm
So one has to question how the bad guys get the account numbers before either card, and with each having a different number, before they have been used anywhere. The USAA lady told me they just try random numbers until they find one that is accepted. OK, I can plausibly see that happening to one card, but to both cards at the same time?

IMO, the only logical answer is someone were the cards are made is leaking the numbers. That concept matches that others who have said there replacement cards were compromised before they even arrived.
Guess is not worth their time nor the risk. It is way more easy and way more profitable to just skim your information upon use. Your computer, your phone, mag readers, POS terminals, processor network, etc. Target, home depot, TJmaxx, etc get hit like this. Hackers injected a script into Newegg.com's checkout that logged all keystrokes.

Dec 2019:
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/01/waw ... ent-cards/

9 months WAWA was breached at all 850 locations. 9 months of skimming. Sold on the internet for $1-$5/card. People then buy them and hope they can be successful with fraud.
Ballons, I would agree that trying a random card number as a guess has a low success probability, but hackers using a password list trying is functionally fairly similar with them trying random logons, thus I assume there must be enough success there to keep everyone involved believing they will succeed financially. However, both schemes are probably harder the achieve success than just going phishing for logon credentials via a simple e-mail.

I agree that card skimming, either physically or electronically, is likely to be the common route of having a card compromised. But what better skimming point could there be than the list of new cards that the card plant will produce that day, along with all the encoded data that goes onto that new card. What else explains reports of a new cards having been compromised before its first use?

WaWa is small peanuts compared to a very large US bank, about 10-12 years ago, that used an outside company in Europe to process European ATM transactions. To do this processing, this outside company had a complete list of all of the data of that bank's ATM cards, including the pins, to to perform verification when/if the card was used in Europe. Well, that data ended up getting stolen and that data was actively used by bad guys across Eastern Europe. Our card numbers were not used, but the bank shutdown the cards without any notice to us until we discovered when that DW's and my card ( each is unique ) would not work, even at the bank's ATM, so functionally they locked us out of access our money to get cash until new cards arrived.

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dratkinson
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by dratkinson » Sun May 17, 2020 6:05 pm

I'm still living in a paper world, all my CCs paid by ABP, no ABP problems noted, no fraudulent CC charges in many years so have not needed to think through this problem. Interesting insights. Hope I don't need them but grateful for the heads up. (Knock wood.)


retiredjg wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 3:53 pm
Here's an argument for not being simple...consider having a separate card for different types of transactions.

Carry 2 cards with you. ...

Have Card #3 for ...

Have card #4 for ...

Yes, you have to check the balance of and pay 3 or 4 bills a month. But when/if something goes haywire, it is very simple to isolate and fix.
Idea. Set CCs to pay by creditors' ABP (automatic bill payment) plans helps with this small hassle. Check the CC statements when they arrive---~2wks before ABP payment processed---to verify no fraudulent charges.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

ballons
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Re: Fraudulent charges... Getting really tired of the number of times this happens and resulting hassle.

Post by ballons » Sun May 17, 2020 8:09 pm

RetiredAL wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 5:33 pm
I agree that card skimming, either physically or electronically, is likely to be the common route of having a card compromised. But what better skimming point could there be than the list of new cards that the card plant will produce that day, along with all the encoded data that goes onto that new card. What else explains reports of a new cards having been compromised before its first use?
Physical plant access or remote is likely near to impossible. Much easier to just get the credit card applications:
https://www.wired.com/story/capital-one ... tion-data/

You can also easily have reoccurring charges from old accounts hit your brand new cards:
https://www.creditcards.com/credit-card ... r-1275.php

I would imagine it is nothing more than a checkbox for a merchant to select when they attempt to bill. They hit your old card, you get a replacement, and then they hit your old card again.

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